Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Promotion of Eckankar - Part 3 of 3 - Christianization of Eckankar

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab and All, Both Twitch and Klemp use the same Bait and Switch methods. They will say one thing on one hand and something else, or take it back, in
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 5, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello Etznab and All,
      Both Twitch and Klemp use the same Bait
      and Switch methods. They will say one thing
      on one hand and something else, or take it
      back, in the next paragraph. This gives people
      in general, and mostly ECKists, the illusion that
      they are important and are FREE SOULS who
      are ONE with the ECK, and that they are their
      own Master (in training of course)! But, they
      NEED the Mahanta to make it all come together
      and make it work. It's a co-dependent relationship!

      But, it's all PR! Let's face the facts, Twitchell
      was one of the biggest liars of his time! ECKists
      (and all religionists) tend to "hang-on" to the
      words and Dogma that make them feel good
      about themselves and their religion. These
      words, concepts, and imaginings give them
      hope that they, too, will reach those heights.
      In Truth, ECKists don't need a Middleman Mahanta
      to give them anything!

      However, even Twitch would sometimes mix
      some truth with fiction to make the lie sound
      better. The TRUTH is that we are all SOUL and
      are ONE with SPIRIT and ALL THAT IS. This is
      what we can take from ECKankar and all religions
      while expanding Our Knowledge and Wisdom
      on Our own. Our purer insights, experiences,
      and awareness can become expanded by using
      the tools that work for us now.

      Prometheus


      etznab wrote:

      "B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being"

      Read page 165 in: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by
      Brad Steiger. Especially the part where Paul says:
      ".... This idea is not completely true, for each of us
      can become the channel of Holy Spirit which can
      flow with supreme abundance to all. ...."

      Seriously, if you ever come across this book, go
      look at what it said. I was quite surprised to come
      across that section because it seemed to run very
      contrary to what Eckankar dogma has in some re-
      spects appeared to be.

      The brief quote I gave is just the tip of a very huge
      "iceberg". My opinion, at least. And that page has a
      lot more to say about the subject. This "iceberg" - &
      what it appears to say - just might be stronger than
      any organized religion will ever be able to stand. My
      guess is that this is what will ultimately "wreck" the
      "solidness" of any and all organized religions. Both
      now, or in the future.

      Etznab
    • etznab@aol.com
      Does anyone find it ironic that section of IN MY SOUL I AM FREE on page 165? I do, and here is why. That book came out around 1968, before the Mahanta term
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 5, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Does anyone find it ironic that section of
        IN MY SOUL I AM FREE on page 165? I
        do, and here is why.

        That book came out around 1968, before
        the "Mahanta" term in 1969 & the non-profit
        religious status of Eckankar in 1970. In fact,
        I don't even know if "IMSIAF" even included
        the "Mahanta" term. At least, it wasn't in the
        Index section and it wasn't on the back cover
        of the book.

        I could be wrong about this, but it seems
        the "Mahanta" term used by Eckankar came
        into vogue around 1969, about a year before
        the non-profit status became official in 1970.
        If I recall, this new staus was urged by Paul's
        (or Eckankar's) lawyers for tax purposes and
        for other reasons.

        In Brad Steiger's book the word "Sugmad"
        & "God" appears, but after 1970 it looks like
        the "Mahanta" becomes a person and leader
        of Eckankar! So, it looks most ironic to me in
        view of what Paul quoted in Steiger's book in
        1968.

        With non-profit and religious status of the
        organization it looks like "God" or "Sugmad"
        became personalized, as if it became head
        of the Eckankar organization. I said "it looks
        like" that. However, I'm not convinced that is
        actually true. That "God" is running the show.

        Etznab

        -----Original Message-----
        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 1:09 pm
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Promotion of Eckankar - Part
        3 of 3 - Christianization of Eckankar



        Hello Etznab and All,

        Both Twitch and Klemp use the same Bait

        and Switch methods. They will say one thing

        on one hand and something else, or take it

        back, in the next paragraph. This gives people

        in general, and mostly ECKists, the illusion that

        they are important and are FREE SOULS who

        are ONE with the ECK, and that they are their

        own Master (in training of course)! But, they

        NEED the Mahanta to make it all come together

        and make it work. It's a co-dependent relationship!



        But, it's all PR! Let's face the facts, Twitchell

        was one of the biggest liars of his time! ECKists

        (and all religionists) tend to "hang-on" to the

        words and Dogma that make them feel good

        about themselves and their religion. These

        words, concepts, and imaginings give them

        hope that they, too, will reach those heights.

        In Truth, ECKists don't need a Middleman Mahanta

        to give them anything!



        However, even Twitch would sometimes mix

        some truth with fiction to make the lie sound

        better. The TRUTH is that we are all SOUL and

        are ONE with SPIRIT and ALL THAT IS. This is

        what we can take from ECKankar and all religions

        while expanding Our Knowledge and Wisdom

        on Our own. Our purer insights, experiences,

        and awareness can become expanded by using

        the tools that work for us now.



        Prometheus



        etznab wrote:



        "B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being"



        Read page 165 in: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by

        Brad Steiger. Especially the part where Paul says:

        ".... This idea is not completely true, for each of us

        can become the channel of Holy Spirit which can

        flow with supreme abundance to all. ...."



        Seriously, if you ever come across this book, go

        look at what it said. I was quite surprised to come

        across that section because it seemed to run very

        contrary to what Eckankar dogma has in some re-

        spects appeared to be.



        The brief quote I gave is just the tip of a very huge

        "iceberg". My opinion, at least. And that page has a

        lot more to say about the subject. This "iceberg" - &

        what it appears to say - just might be stronger than

        any organized religion will ever be able to stand. My

        guess is that this is what will ultimately "wreck" the

        "solidness" of any and all organized religions. Both

        now, or in the future.



        Etznab
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Jonathan and All, I always thought it was odd that HU Chants were Not supposed to be synchronized with other HU Chants when they were Non-directed.
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 9, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Jonathan and All,
          I always thought it was odd that HU Chants were
          Not supposed to be synchronized with other HU
          Chants when they were Non-directed.

          Actually, I wonder how many ECK voices on those
          HU Chant recordings are actually Directing the ECK
          to do something for them, or for someone else...
          like "Heidi" did!

          Plus, what makes it okay for Heidi to violate the ECK
          Spiritual LAW of NON-INTERFERENCE? And, don't Heidi's
          actions fall under the "Do-Gooder" syndrome that
          Klemp has warned against in past talks? But now it's
          okay!

          I never could figure out why local ECKists weren't
          permitted to have HU Chants that corresponded to the
          Sunday Morning HU Chants at the Major EK Seminars.

          In TM (Transcendental Meditation) the purpose of
          synchronizing meditations, worldwide, was seen as
          a means of raising World consciousness. This meditative/
          contemplative method, (technique) is, also, seen as
          a means of Unification (Unity Consciousness) with Spirit.

          Thus, it benefits the individual Soul via the raising of
          their own consciousness and has the by-product, or
          effect, of raising the consciousness of the whole World
          as well! This raising of consciousness could lead to
          harmony and world peace. ECKists accept the Negative
          Kali-Yuga (time is running out) and yet Klemp only
          attempts to raise world consciousness one person
          (Soul) at a time! What kind of a "Master" is that!

          Do EKists do their heroic acts on a one-on-one
          Christian like basis as "Heidi" does in order to feel
          good? Probably! Look at the "stories" they get to
          tell! Guess what? Most of these "stories" are either
          embellished or are pure fiction!

          Again, with TM, a large gathering of people chanting
          Mantras and Sutras is, also, done without directing
          this Force... just like with the HU Chants.

          Of course, most TMers do their chants privately (like
          ECKists), but it can also be timed with the meditations
          of large gatherings... just like the 8:00 a.m. CST Sunday
          Morning HU Chants could. As a matter of fact... aren't
          ECKists somewhat encouraged to synchronize and do
          their own private HU Chant at this time? I think so!

          Now I'm thinking that Klemp doesn't want Group HU
          Chants "synchronized" because he doesn't want to share
          any "power" with EK Chelas. By synchronizing HU Chants,
          to raise World Consciousness (as a natural by-product
          of this Non-Directed prayer), could mean that ECKists
          would look to and experience the Oneness of the ECK
          (SPIRIT). Why then, would they need a Physical Plane LEM?
          They wouldn't! Klemp and Company just want job security!

          Prometheus


          Jonathan wrote:
          Lastly. A "nondirected prayer?" The whole purpose of prayer is for
          it to be directed. It is an active procedure, not a passive procedure.
          This whole new concept of Harold Klemps is just spin-doctoring the
          HU chant/sing in Eckankar into a new and very disturbing procedure.



          jonathan wrote:

          Since the early days of Eckankar, and mostly since Harold Klemp has
          taken over, it has been busy reforming and redefining itself in order
          to lure in new members. Basically, they are removing anything from
          the introductory literature and talks that could possibly offend
          anyone. This plan includes what I call the "Christianization of
          Eckankar." What I mean by this is that Eckankar is redoing itself so
          that on the surface of things it more closely resembles Christianity.
          Of course, after the new member has been in

          Eckankar's current plan:

          1. We're going to make Eckankar look like Christianity.

          2. We're going to get them to join Eckankar because it "looks
          familiar" to them.

          3. Then we'll slowly brainwash them for several years before we
          teach them the real thing:

          A. Eckankar is patterned after the religions
          Hinduism, Sikhism, and Sant Mat.

          B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being
          (whoever the Living Eck master happens to be at the time).

          A. Eckankar introduces the ''Worship Service''

          A lot of current members of Eckankar who joined rather recently would
          probably be surprised to know that for about the first twenty years
          of Eckankar there was no "Worship Service." In fact, this is
          something Eckankar made up as it went along. Back when this first
          happened I had no inkling as to why Eckankar had done this. Back in
          those days, I can remember asking people "Why does Eckankar have
          a Worship Service anyway? Eckists don't worship anything." I naively
          assumed that people would actually give me an answer. But they
          didn't, and I just "blew it off."

          Let's look at the facts. Eckists don't worship Sugmad (Eckankar's
          word for God). We were taught that God is way beyond any need for
          anyone to worship it. And on the surface of things, we were taught
          that we shouldn't worship the Eck master. So I repeat my original
          question "Why is there a worship service in Eckankar?" It took me
          a long time to figure it out, and I think it must have bee during the
          last month of my time in Eckankar that I finally figured it out.
          Eckankar is trying to appear like Christianity. And for the shameful
          reason of appearing like Christianity so they can lure people in.

          In another post I mentioned that a few months before I left Eckankar
          somebody finally informed me that the Worship Service is for new
          people. That is simply more evidence that what I am saying about the
          Worship Service is true.

          B. HU, the most beautiful prayer

          "HU, the most beautiful prayer" is a new booklet that Harold Klemp
          wrote and was first distributed to the members of Eckankar in late
          November of 2008. Frankly, the lack of spiritual principles in this
          booklet is one of the most despicable things I have ever witnessed in
          Eckankar. I read part of this book. This is a brief summary of some
          of what Klemp said:

          "The right way to pray is to sing a song of love to God."

          "The wrong way to pray is to tell God what to do."

          He completely ignores the third choice which is to ask God for
          spiritual wisdom or guidance.

          Or the fourth choice which is to ask God to fix things or give you
          things.

          He tells the story of a girl named "Heidi" who learns that her
          relative in another place, a little boy, is in a coma. What she then
          did was to go on the inner and ask the little boy and his parents
          to join her in a HU on the inner planes. She then sang the HU while
          remaining neutral. The next day, she learned that the little boy came
          out of the coma. Supposedly, he asked the nurse "Are you Heidi?"

          When I first read this story I didn't immediately see much of a
          problem with it. But later I started to have second thoughts about
          this whole procedure that Heidi did. I disagree with it for the
          reason that it seems to be a very subtle way to intentionally control
          the outcome of a situation. That's not prayer, that's black magic.
          And the fact that little children in Eckankar are being taught this
          technique is disturbing indeed.

          The problem has mostly to do with one question: "Did she in fact
          remain neutral or did she want a particular outcome to take place?"
          My contention is that she wanted a particular outcome to take place.
          That means that she was, in fact, influencing the outcome of a
          situation regarding someone else without their prior permission.
          That is expressly forbidden in Eckankar and is actively called black
          magic by Eckankar.

          But it seems that Eckankar has found a way around this. And for
          two reasons:

          1. So Eckankar can call the HU a prayer and therefore make Eckankar
          more acceptable to Christians, and

          2. So Eckankar can teach its chelas a way to influence others, all
          the while convincing them that they are not doing that.

          In the case of Heidi, a truly spiritual person would have simply
          said "Thine will be done" and then given it to Holy Spirit. She
          would have been much better off simply giving it to Spirit rather
          than wandering into this situation with her HU chant.

          This new procedure that Harold Klemp has invented is using the
          HU to achieve a desired outcome while at the same time you are
          pretending that you are not doing that. Despite the individuals
          best intentions, I feel that most people will have a desired outcome
          even if it is only at the subconscious level. But please remember
          that the subconscious mind energy is more powerful and the
          conscious mind energy so we are really playing with fire here.

          Do you really think that I believe that she didn't want a particular
          outcome? Clearly, she wanted the boy to wake up, or she wouldn't
          have even become involved in the process of using the HU in this
          new manner in the first place. The fact that she got involved in this
          procedure was because she wanted the boy to wake up.

          And if you want more proof, would Harold Klemp have told the story
          about Heidi if the boy had died? The more than obvious answer
          is "No."

          So there is an unspoken message here for all members of Eckankar.
          You are now allowed to use the HU to influence others. What's next?
          Expect the following to come to an Eckankar Center near you. Ten
          Eckists arrive and they all are concerned about say a war in a
          particular country. People are being killed; it's terrible. So they
          decide to, as a group, chant/sing the HU. But beforehand, they
          all invite all of the participants in the war to sing the HU with them
          on the inner. Anybody but me see a problem with this?

          Lastly. A "nondirected prayer?" The whole purpose of prayer is for
          it to be directed. It is an active procedure, not a passive procedure.
          This whole new concept of Harold Klemps is just spin-doctoring the
          HU chant/sing in Eckankar into a new and very disturbing procedure.

          Medical doctors don't treat their own family members due to concerns
          that they will be biased when making decisions. In other words, the
          fact that they are treating someone that they care deeply about could
          adversely affect the objectivity of their decisions. But in the case
          of Eckankar and "HU, The Most Beautiful Prayer," they are going to
          trust little kids to be able to overcome that situation.

          Eckankar's new policy seems to be "Acquiring new members
          no matter what the cost to the original principals of Eckankar."

          And once again, Eckankar is borrowing a concept from Indian
          religions/culture. "Bhajan (BUDGE-in) is a Sanskrit word for
          a Hindu devotional song. The purpose of the song is to praise
          God (Ik onkaar), or honor God (Ik onkaar). On Jan 7, 2009, I spoke
          with a Hindu from North India. I specifically asked her "Is it considered
          to be a prayer too?" She said "Yes." But after talking to her, it was
          clear to me that the Hindu singing the bhajan or listening to the
          bhajan focuses on the words in the song; they are not having
          separate thoughts of their own. Basically, the words are saying
          things like "God, you are great."

          Prometheus, I know that you commented on this "HU, The Most
          Beautiful Prayer," but I wrote 95% of what I have here back at the
          very beginning of December, 2008, about two weeks before I left
          Eckankar. I don't think that you read any of the book, so I think you
          might be very interested in this story about Heidi.
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Jonathan and All, It s true, I haven t read Klemp s HU, the Most Beautiful Prayer. I m not sure if I remember this post either. Allow me to comment on
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 22, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Jonathan and All,
            It's true, I haven't read Klemp's "HU,
            the Most Beautiful Prayer." I'm not
            sure if I remember this post either.
            Allow me to comment on it below.

            jonathan wrote [J]:

            Since the early days of Eckankar, and mostly since Harold Klemp has
            taken over, it has been busy reforming and redefining itself in order
            to lure in new members. Basically, they are removing anything from
            the introductory literature and talks that could possibly offend
            anyone. This plan includes what I call the "Christianization of
            Eckankar." What I mean by this is that Eckankar is redoing itself so
            that on the surface of things it more closely resembles Christianity.
            Of course, after the new member has been in.



            [P]- I agree, IMO, Klemp made his first move to
            recreate Eckankar to look more like Christianity
            when he created the RESA Hierarchy. It's also
            true that HK used the "common language" pretense
            to attract disillusioned Christians versus those
            with Metaphysical and Eastern backgrounds.



            [J] -Eckankar's current plan:

            1. We're going to make Eckankar look like Christianity.
            2. We're going to get them to join Eckankar because it "looks
            familiar" to them.
            3. Then we'll slowly brainwash them for several years before we teach
            them the real thing:
            A. Eckankar is patterned after the religions
            Hinduism, Sikhism, and Sant Mat.
            B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being
            (whoever the Living Eck master happens to be at the time).

            A. Eckankar introduces the ''Worship Service''
            A lot of current members of Eckankar who joined rather recently would
            probably be surprised to know that for about the first twenty years
            of Eckankar there was no "Worship Service." In fact, this is
            something Eckankar made up as it went along. Back when this first
            happened I had no inkling as to why Eckankar had done this. Back in
            those days, I can remember asking people "Whay does Eckankar have a
            Worship Service anyway? Eckists don't worship anything." I naively
            assumed that people would actually give me an answer. But they
            didn't, and I just "blew it off."

            Let's look at the facts. Eckists don't worship Sugmad (Eckankar's
            word for God). We were taught that God is way beyond any need for
            anyone to worship it. And on the surface of things, we were taught
            that we shouldn't worship the Eck master. So I repeat my original
            question "Why is there a worship service in Eckankar?" It took me a
            long time to figure it out, and I think it must have bee during the
            last month of my time in Eckankar that I finally figured it out.
            Eckankar is trying to appear like Christianity. And for the shameful
            reason of appearing like Christianity so they can lure people in.

            In another post I mentioned that a few months before I left Eckankar
            somebody finally informed me that the Worship Service is for new
            people. That is simply more evidence that what I am saying about the
            Worship Service is true.

            B. HU, the most beautiful prayer
            "HU, the most beautiful prayer" is a new booklet that Harold Klemp
            wrote and was first distributed to the members of Eckankar in late
            November of 2008. Frankly, the lack of spiritual principles in this
            booklet is one of the most despicable things I have ever witnessed in
            Eckankar. I read part of this book. This is a brief summary of some
            of what Klemp said:

            "The right way to pray is to sing a song of love to God."
            "The wrong way to pray is to tell God what to do."

            He completely ignores the third choice which is to ask God for
            spiritual wisdom or guidance. Or the fourth choice which is to ask
            God to fix things or give you things.



            [P]- Correct! This just goes to show that
            anyone entering a book in the 2009
            Next Generation Indie Book Awards
            becomes a finalist! It's good PR and
            is a marketing ploy to sell more books.



            He tells the story of a girl named "Heidi" who learns that her
            relative in another place, a little boy, is in a coma. What she then
            did was to go on the inner and ask the little boy and his parents to
            join her in a HU on the inner planes. She then sang the HU while
            remaining neutral. The next day, she learned that the little boy came
            out of the coma. Supposedly, he asked the nurse "Are you Heidi?"



            P- Already, Heidi has violated the EK
            Law of Noninterference when she went
            into their "inner" dreams or consciousness!
            This was an intentional act where she was
            seeking a "positive" (White Magic) outcome.
            This is what the typical follower of God (KAL)
            would do. IMO, Sugmad would neither want
            or require her to do such an act of White Magic
            and then claim that she was "neutral." Having
            empathy is closer to Divine Love than being
            without feelings and being "neutral." Or, was
            it Klemp who put his two cents worth in and
            his words into her mouth to point out that
            Heidi was remaining "neutral?"

            It's obvious that there was a desired outcome,
            or else she never would have done what she
            did. Plus, what do we have really here? It's
            another minor miracle attributed to one
            religion being better than the others. And,
            it was pointed out that Eckankar is better
            by an innocent (pure) and truthful young child.

            However, every religion has stories like this
            and that's the rub for ECKists! These other
            religions worship a 2nd or 4th Plane God who
            is referred to in Eckankar as Kal (i.e. Satan,
            Devil). Just read Klemp's Autobiography page
            385 and look in the index of the combined
            Shariyats for Satan and Devil and you will
            see these names refer to the KAL (God).

            BTW- I wrote this before reading what was
            mentioned below. Apparently we both see
            the same problems with Klemp's stories
            and teachings.





            [J] When I first read this story I didn't immediately see much of a
            problem with it. But later I started to have second thoughts about
            this whole procedure that Heidi did. I disagree with it for the
            reason that it seems to be a very subtle way to intentionally control
            the outcome of a situation. That's not prayer, that's black magic.
            And the fact that little children in Eckankar are being taught this
            technique is disturbing indeed.

            The problem has mostly to do with one question: "Did she in fact
            remain neutral or did she want a particular outcome to take place?"
            My contention is that she wanted a particular outcome to take place.
            That means that she was, in fact, influencing the outcome of a
            situation regarding someone else without their prior permission. That
            is expressly forbidden in Eckankar and is actively called black magic
            by Eckankar.

            But it seems that Eckankar has found a way around this. And for two
            reasons:

            1. So Eckankar can call the HU a prayer and therefore make Eckankar
            more acceptable to Christians, and

            2. So Eckankar can teach its chelas a way to influence others, all
            the while convincing them that they are not doing that.

            In the case of Heidi, a truly spiritual person would have simply
            said "Thine will be done" and then given it to Holy Spirit. She would
            have been much better off simply giving it to Spirit rather than
            wandering into this situation with her HU chant.


            [P]- I agree! "May Thy Will Be Done" is the neutral
            approach. After all, when one uses the HU it was
            supposed to be without direction/purpose. Meeting
            someone on the "Inner" and directing them to HU
            is giving purpose and is controlling the outcome
            which can produce karma. This is all Lower Plane
            stuff. Now, Klemp is calling the HU a "Prayer" and
            the definition of prayer is anything but "neutral."
            Thus, when the young girl was teaching the HU
            Prayer, on the inner, to these people it was so that
            they could also request a desired outcome. What's
            funny is that Eckists don't realize that it's KAL that
            they are praying (HUing) to!




            [J]-This new procedure that Harold Klemp has invented is using
            the HU to achieve a desired outcome while at the same time you
            are pretending that you are not doing that. Despite the individuals
            best intentions, I feel that most people will have a desired outcome
            even if it is only at the subconscious level. But please remember that
            the subconscious mind energy is more powerful and the conscious
            mind energy so we are really playing with fire here.

            Do you really think that I believe that she didn't want a particular
            outcome? Clearly, she wanted the boy to wake up, or she wouldn't
            have even become involved in the process of using the HU in this
            new manner in the first place. The fact that she got involved in this
            procedure was because she wanted the boy to wake up.

            And if you want more proof, would Harold Klemp have told the
            story about Heidi if the boy had died? The more than obvious answer
            is "No."

            So there is an unspoken message here for all members of Eckankar.
            You are now allowed to use the HU to influence others. What's next?
            Expect the following to come to an Eckankar Center near you. Ten
            Eckists arrive and they all are concerned about say a war in a
            particular country. People are being killed; it's terrible. So they
            decide to, as a group, chant/sing the HU. But beforehand, they all
            invite all of the participants in the war to sing the HU with them on
            the inner. Anybody but me see a problem with this?



            [P]- I always thought it rather strange that
            Klemp wouldn't allow EK Centers to conduct
            simultaneous HU Chants that would correspond
            to the Sunday Morning HU Chant/Song conducted
            at ECK Seminars. The word back from the ESC
            was that this "directed" the HU. Of course it didn't,
            direct it anymore than directing people to show
            up in a big hall at 8:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning.
            But, you can't argue with city hall (or the ESC)
            as the saying goes! Now, it would seem that
            anything goes, but don't hold your breath. HK
            will do it his way and will flip-flop on the issue.
            He's the EK puppet master!




            [J]- Lastly. A "nondirected prayer?" The whole purpose of prayer is for it
            to be directed. It is an active procedure, not a passive procedure.
            This whole new concept of Harold Klemps is just spin-doctoring the HU
            chant/sing in Eckankar into a new and very disturbing procedure.

            Medical doctors don't treat their own family members due to concerns
            that they will be biased when making decisions. In other words, the
            fact that they are treating someone that they care deeply about could
            adversely affect the objectivity of their decisions. But in the case
            of Eckankar and "HU, The Most Beautiful Prayer," they are going to
            trust little kids to be able to overcome that situation.

            Eckankar's new policy seems to be "Acquiring new members no matter
            what the cost to the original principals of Eckankar."

            And once again, Eckankar is borrowing a concept from Indian
            religions/culture. "Bhajan (BUDGE-in) is a Sanskrit word for a Hindu
            devotional song. The purpose of the song is to praise God (Ik
            onkaar), or honor God(Ik onkaar). On Jan 7, 2009, I spoke with a
            Hindu from North India. I specifically asked her "Is it considered to
            be a prayer too?" She said "Yes." But after talking to her, it was
            clear to me that the Hindu singing the bhajan or listening to the
            bhajan focuses on the words in the song; they are not having separate
            thoughts of their own. Basically, the words are saying things
            like "God, you are great."

            Prometheus, I know that you commented on this "HU, The Most Beautiful
            Prayer," but I wrote 95% of what I have here back at the very
            beginning of December, 2008, about two weeks before I left Eckankar.
            I don't think that you read any of the book, so I think you might be
            very interested in this story about Heidi.
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.