Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Promotion of Eckankar - Part 3 of 3 - Christianization of Eckankar

Expand Messages
  • jonathanjohns96
    Since the early days of Eckankar, and mostly since Harold Klemp has taken over, it has been busy reforming and redefining itself in order to lure in new
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 4, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Since the early days of Eckankar, and mostly since Harold Klemp has
      taken over, it has been busy reforming and redefining itself in order
      to lure in new members. Basically, they are removing anything from
      the introductory literature and talks that could possibly offend
      anyone. This plan includes what I call the "Christianization of
      Eckankar." What I mean by this is that Eckankar is redoing itself so
      that on the surface of things it more closely resembles Christianity.
      Of course, after the new member has been in

      Eckankar's current plan:
      1. We're going to make Eckankar look like Christianity.
      2. We're going to get them to join Eckankar because it "looks
      familiar" to them.
      3. Then we'll slowly brainwash them for several years before we teach
      them the real thing:
      A. Eckankar is patterned after the religions
      Hinduism, Sikhism, and Sant Mat.
      B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being
      (whoever the Living Eck master happens to be at the time).

      A. Eckankar introduces the ''Worship Service''
      A lot of current members of Eckankar who joined rather recently would
      probably be surprised to know that for about the first twenty years
      of Eckankar there was no "Worship Service." In fact, this is
      something Eckankar made up as it went along. Back when this first
      happened I had no inkling as to why Eckankar had done this. Back in
      those days, I can remember asking people "Whay does Eckankar have a
      Worship Service anyway? Eckists don't worship anything." I naively
      assumed that people would actually give me an answer. But they
      didn't, and I just "blew it off."

      Let's look at the facts. Eckists don't worship Sugmad (Eckankar's
      word for God). We were taught that God is way beyond any need for
      anyone to worship it. And on the surface of things, we were taught
      that we shouldn't worship the Eck master. So I repeat my original
      question "Why is there a worship service in Eckankar?" It took me a
      long time to figure it out, and I think it must have bee during the
      last month of my time in Eckankar that I finally figured it out.
      Eckankar is trying to appear like Christianity. And for the shameful
      reason of appearing like Christianity so they can lure people in.

      In another post I mentioned that a few months before I left Eckankar
      somebody finally informed me that the Worship Service is for new
      people. That is simply more evidence that what I am saying about the
      Worship Service is true.

      B. HU, the most beautiful prayer
      "HU, the most beautiful prayer" is a new booklet that Harold Klemp
      wrote and was first distributed to the members of Eckankar in late
      November of 2008. Frankly, the lack of spiritual principles in this
      booklet is one of the most despicable things I have ever witnessed in
      Eckankar. I read part of this book. This is a brief summary of some
      of what Klemp said:

      "The right way to pray is to sing a song of love to God."
      "The wrong way to pray is to tell God what to do."

      He completely ignores the third choice which is to ask God for
      spiritual wisdom or guidance. Or the fourth choice which is to ask
      God to fix things or give you things.

      He tells the story of a girl named "Heidi" who learns that her
      relative in another place, a little boy, is in a coma. What she then
      did was to go on the inner and ask the little boy and his parents to
      join her in a HU on the inner planes. She then sang the HU while
      remaining neutral. The next day, she learned that the little boy came
      out of the coma. Supposedly, he asked the nurse "Are you Heidi?"

      When I first read this story I didn't immediately see much of a
      problem with it. But later I started to have second thoughts about
      this whole procedure that Heidi did. I disagree with it for the
      reason that it seems to be a very subtle way to intentionally control
      the outcome of a situation. That's not prayer, that's black magic.
      And the fact that little children in Eckankar are being taught this
      technique is disturbing indeed.

      The problem has mostly to do with one question: "Did she in fact
      remain neutral or did she want a particular outcome to take place?"
      My contention is that she wanted a particular outcome to take place.
      That means that she was, in fact, influencing the outcome of a
      situation regarding someone else without their prior permission. That
      is expressly forbidden in Eckankar and is actively called black magic
      by Eckankar.

      But it seems that Eckankar has found a way around this. And for two
      reasons:
      1. So Eckankar can call the HU a prayer and therefore make Eckankar
      more acceptable to Christians, and
      2. So Eckankar can teach its chelas a way to influence others, all
      the while convincing them that they are not doing that.

      In the case of Heidi, a truly spiritual person would have simply
      said "Thine will be done" and then given it to Holy Spirit. She would
      have been much better off simply giving it to Spirit rather than
      wandering into this situation with her HU chant.

      This new procedure that Harold Klemp has invented is using the HU to
      achieve a desired outcome while at the same time you are pretending
      that you are not doing that. Despite the individuals best intentions,
      I feel that most people will have a desired outcome even if it is
      only at the subconscious level. But please remember that the
      subconscious mind energy is more powerful and the conscious mind
      energy so we are really playing with fire here.

      Do you really think that I believe that she didn't want a particular
      outcome? Clearly, she wanted the boy to wake up, or she wouldn't have
      even become involved in the process of using the HU in this new
      manner in the first place. The fact that she got involved in this
      procedure was because she wanted the boy to wake up.

      And if you want more proof, would Harold Klemp have told the story
      about Heidi if the boy had died? The more than obvious answer
      is "No."

      So there is an unspoken message here for all members of Eckankar. You
      are now allowed to use the HU to influence others. What's next?
      Expect the following to come to an Eckankar Center near you. Ten
      Eckists arrive and they all are concerned about say a war in a
      particular country. People are being killed; it's terrible. So they
      decide to, as a group, chant/sing the HU. But beforehand, they all
      invite all of the participants in the war to sing the HU with them on
      the inner. Anybody but me see a problem with this?

      Lastly. A "nondirected prayer?" The whole purpose of prayer is for it
      to be directed. It is an active procedure, not a passive procedure.
      This whole new concept of Harold Klemps is just spin-doctoring the HU
      chant/sing in Eckankar into a new and very disturbing procedure.

      Medical doctors don't treat their own family members due to concerns
      that they will be biased when making decisions. In other words, the
      fact that they are treating someone that they care deeply about could
      adversely affect the objectivity of their decisions. But in the case
      of Eckankar and "HU, The Most Beautiful Prayer," they are going to
      trust little kids to be able to overcome that situation.

      Eckankar's new policy seems to be "Acquiring new members no matter
      what the cost to the original principals of Eckankar."

      And once again, Eckankar is borrowing a concept from Indian
      religions/culture. "Bhajan (BUDGE-in) is a Sanskrit word for a Hindu
      devotional song. The purpose of the song is to praise God (Ik
      onkaar), or honor God(Ik onkaar). On Jan 7, 2009, I spoke with a
      Hindu from North India. I specifically asked her "Is it considered to
      be a prayer too?" She said "Yes." But after talking to her, it was
      clear to me that the Hindu singing the bhajan or listening to the
      bhajan focuses on the words in the song; they are not having separate
      thoughts of their own. Basically, the words are saying things
      like "God, you are great."

      Prometheus, I know that you commented on this "HU, The Most Beautiful
      Prayer," but I wrote 95% of what I have here back at the very
      beginning of December, 2008, about two weeks before I left Eckankar.
      I don't think that you read any of the book, so I think you might be
      very interested in this story about Heidi.
    • etznab@aol.com
      B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being Read page 165 in: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by Brad Steiger. Especially the part where Paul says: .... This
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 4, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        "B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being"

        Read page 165 in: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by
        Brad Steiger. Especially the part where Paul says:
        ".... This idea is not completely true, for each of us
        can become the channel of Holy Spirit which can
        flow with supreme abundance to all. ...."

        Seriously, if you ever come across this book, go
        look at what it said. I was quite surprised to come
        across that section because it seemed to run very
        contrary to what Eckankar dogma has in some re-
        spects appeared to be.

        The brief quote I gave is just the tip of a very huge
        "iceberg". My opinion, at least. And that page has a
        lot more to say about the subject. This "iceberg" - &
        what it appears to say - just might be stronger than
        any organized religion will ever be able to stand. My
        guess is that this is what will ultimately "wreck" the
        "solidness" of any and all organized religions. Both
        now, or in the future.

        Etznab

        -----Original Message-----
        From: jonathanjohns96 <jonathanjohns96@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 8:20 pm
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Promotion of Eckankar - Part 3 of
        3 - Christianization of Eckankar



        Since the early days of Eckankar, and mostly since Harold Klemp has

        taken over, it has been busy reforming and redefining itself in order

        to lure in new members. Basically, they are removing anything from

        the introductory literature and talks that could possibly offend

        anyone. This plan includes what I call the "Christianization of

        Eckankar." What I mean by this is that Eckankar is redoing itself so

        that on the surface of things it more closely resembles Christianity.

        Of course, after the new member has been in



        Eckankar's current plan:

        1. We're going to make Eckankar look like Christianity.

        2. We're going to get them to join Eckankar because it "looks

        familiar" to them.

        3. Then we'll slowly brainwash them for several years before we teach

        them the real thing:

        A. Eckankar is patterned after the religions

        Hinduism, Sikhism, and Sant Mat.

        B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being

        (whoever the Living Eck master happens to be at the time).



        A. Eckankar introduces the ''Worship Service''

        A lot of current members of Eckankar who joined rather recently would

        probably be surprised to know that for about the first twenty years

        of Eckankar there was no "Worship Service." In fact, this is

        something Eckankar made up as it went along. Back when this first

        happened I had no inkling as to why Eckankar had done this. Back in

        those days, I can remember asking people "Whay does Eckankar have a

        Worship Service anyway? Eckists don't worship anything." I naively

        assumed that people would actually give me an answer. But they

        didn't, and I just "blew it off."



        Let's look at the facts. Eckists don't worship Sugmad (Eckankar's

        word for God). We were taught that God is way beyond any need for

        anyone to worship it. And on the surface of things, we were taught

        that we shouldn't worship the Eck master. So I repeat my original

        question "Why is there a worship service in Eckankar?" It took me a

        long time to figure it out, and I think it must have bee during the

        last month of my time in Eckankar that I finally figured it out.

        Eckankar is trying to appear like Christianity. And for the shameful

        reason of appearing like Christianity so they can lure people in.



        In another post I mentioned that a few months before I left Eckankar

        somebody finally informed me that the Worship Service is for new

        people. That is simply more evidence that what I am saying about the

        Worship Service is true.



        B. HU, the most beautiful prayer

        "HU, the most beautiful prayer" is a new booklet that Harold Klemp

        wrote and was first distributed to the members of Eckankar in late

        November of 2008. Frankly, the lack of spiritual principles in this

        booklet is one of the most despicable things I have ever witnessed in

        Eckankar. I read part of this book. This is a brief summary of some

        of what Klemp said:



        "The right way to pray is to sing a song of love to God."

        "The wrong way to pray is to tell God what to do."



        He completely ignores the third choice which is to ask God for

        spiritual wisdom or guidance. Or the fourth choice which is to ask

        God to fix things or give you things.



        He tells the story of a girl named "Heidi" who learns that her

        relative in another place, a little boy, is in a coma. What she then

        did was to go on the inner and ask the little boy and his parents to

        join her in a HU on the inner planes. She then sang the HU while

        remaining neutral. The next day, she learned that the little boy came

        out of the coma. Supposedly, he asked the nurse "Are you Heidi?"



        When I first read this story I didn't immediately see much of a

        problem with it. But later I started to have second thoughts about

        this whole procedure that Heidi did. I disagree with it for the

        reason that it seems to be a very subtle way to intentionally control

        the outcome of a situation. That's not prayer, that's black magic.

        And the fact that little children in Eckankar are being taught this

        technique is disturbing indeed.



        The problem has mostly to do with one question: "Did she in fact

        remain neutral or did she want a particular outcome to take place?"

        My contention is that she wanted a particular outcome to take place.

        That means that she was, in fact, influencing the outcome of a

        situation regarding someone else without their prior permission. That

        is expressly forbidden in Eckankar and is actively called black magic

        by Eckankar.



        But it seems that Eckankar has found a way around this. And for two

        reasons:

        1. So Eckankar can call the HU a prayer and therefore make Eckankar

        more acceptable to Christians, and

        2. So Eckankar can teach its chelas a way to influence others, all

        the while convincing them that they are not doing that.



        In the case of Heidi, a truly spiritual person would have simply

        said "Thine will be done" and then given it to Holy Spirit. She would

        have been much better off simply giving it to Spirit rather than

        wandering into this situation with her HU chant.



        This new procedure that Harold Klemp has invented is using the HU to

        achieve a desired outcome while at the same time you are pretending

        that you are not doing that. Despite the individuals best intentions,

        I feel that most people will have a desired outcome even if it is

        only at the subconscious level. But please remember that the

        subconscious mind energy is more powerful and the conscious mind

        energy so we are really playing with fire here.



        Do you really think that I believe that she didn't want a particular

        outcome? Clearly, she wanted the boy to wake up, or she wouldn't have

        even become involved in the process of using the HU in this new

        manner in the first place. The fact that she got involved in this

        procedure was because she wanted the boy to wake up.



        And if you want more proof, would Harold Klemp have told the story

        about Heidi if the boy had died? The more than obvious answer

        is "No."



        So there is an unspoken message here for all members of Eckankar. You

        are now allowed to use the HU to influence others. What's next?

        Expect the following to come to an Eckankar Center near you. Ten

        Eckists arrive and they all are concerned about say a war in a

        particular country. People are being killed; it's terrible. So they

        decide to, as a group, chant/sing the HU. But beforehand, they all

        invite all of the participants in the war to sing the HU with them on

        the inner. Anybody but me see a problem with this?



        Lastly. A "nondirected prayer?" The whole purpose of prayer is for it

        to be directed. It is an active procedure, not a passive procedure.

        This whole new concept of Harold Klemps is just spin-doctoring the HU

        chant/sing in Eckankar into a new and very disturbing procedure.



        Medical doctors don't treat their own family members due to concerns

        that they will be biased when making decisions. In other words, the

        fact that they are treating someone that they care deeply about could

        adversely affect the objectivity of their decisions. But in the case

        of Eckankar and "HU, The Most Beautiful Prayer," they are going to

        trust little kids to be able to overcome that situation.



        Eckankar's new policy seems to be "Acquiring new members no matter

        what the cost to the original principals of Eckankar."



        And once again, Eckankar is borrowing a concept from Indian

        religions/culture. "Bhajan (BUDGE-in) is a Sanskrit word for a Hindu

        devotional song. The purpose of the song is to praise God (Ik

        onkaar), or honor God(Ik onkaar). On Jan 7, 2009, I spoke with a

        Hindu from North India. I specifically asked her "Is it considered to

        be a prayer too?" She said "Yes." But after talking to her, it was

        clear to me that the Hindu singing the bhajan or listening to the

        bhajan focuses on the words in the song; they are not having separate

        thoughts of their own. Basically, the words are saying things

        like "God, you are great."



        Prometheus, I know that you commented on this "HU, The Most Beautiful

        Prayer," but I wrote 95% of what I have here back at the very

        beginning of December, 2008, about two weeks before I left Eckankar.

        I don't think that you read any of the book, so I think you might be

        very interested in this story about Heidi.
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Etznab and All, Both Twitch and Klemp use the same Bait and Switch methods. They will say one thing on one hand and something else, or take it back, in
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 5, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Etznab and All,
          Both Twitch and Klemp use the same Bait
          and Switch methods. They will say one thing
          on one hand and something else, or take it
          back, in the next paragraph. This gives people
          in general, and mostly ECKists, the illusion that
          they are important and are FREE SOULS who
          are ONE with the ECK, and that they are their
          own Master (in training of course)! But, they
          NEED the Mahanta to make it all come together
          and make it work. It's a co-dependent relationship!

          But, it's all PR! Let's face the facts, Twitchell
          was one of the biggest liars of his time! ECKists
          (and all religionists) tend to "hang-on" to the
          words and Dogma that make them feel good
          about themselves and their religion. These
          words, concepts, and imaginings give them
          hope that they, too, will reach those heights.
          In Truth, ECKists don't need a Middleman Mahanta
          to give them anything!

          However, even Twitch would sometimes mix
          some truth with fiction to make the lie sound
          better. The TRUTH is that we are all SOUL and
          are ONE with SPIRIT and ALL THAT IS. This is
          what we can take from ECKankar and all religions
          while expanding Our Knowledge and Wisdom
          on Our own. Our purer insights, experiences,
          and awareness can become expanded by using
          the tools that work for us now.

          Prometheus


          etznab wrote:

          "B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being"

          Read page 165 in: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by
          Brad Steiger. Especially the part where Paul says:
          ".... This idea is not completely true, for each of us
          can become the channel of Holy Spirit which can
          flow with supreme abundance to all. ...."

          Seriously, if you ever come across this book, go
          look at what it said. I was quite surprised to come
          across that section because it seemed to run very
          contrary to what Eckankar dogma has in some re-
          spects appeared to be.

          The brief quote I gave is just the tip of a very huge
          "iceberg". My opinion, at least. And that page has a
          lot more to say about the subject. This "iceberg" - &
          what it appears to say - just might be stronger than
          any organized religion will ever be able to stand. My
          guess is that this is what will ultimately "wreck" the
          "solidness" of any and all organized religions. Both
          now, or in the future.

          Etznab
        • etznab@aol.com
          Does anyone find it ironic that section of IN MY SOUL I AM FREE on page 165? I do, and here is why. That book came out around 1968, before the Mahanta term
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 5, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Does anyone find it ironic that section of
            IN MY SOUL I AM FREE on page 165? I
            do, and here is why.

            That book came out around 1968, before
            the "Mahanta" term in 1969 & the non-profit
            religious status of Eckankar in 1970. In fact,
            I don't even know if "IMSIAF" even included
            the "Mahanta" term. At least, it wasn't in the
            Index section and it wasn't on the back cover
            of the book.

            I could be wrong about this, but it seems
            the "Mahanta" term used by Eckankar came
            into vogue around 1969, about a year before
            the non-profit status became official in 1970.
            If I recall, this new staus was urged by Paul's
            (or Eckankar's) lawyers for tax purposes and
            for other reasons.

            In Brad Steiger's book the word "Sugmad"
            & "God" appears, but after 1970 it looks like
            the "Mahanta" becomes a person and leader
            of Eckankar! So, it looks most ironic to me in
            view of what Paul quoted in Steiger's book in
            1968.

            With non-profit and religious status of the
            organization it looks like "God" or "Sugmad"
            became personalized, as if it became head
            of the Eckankar organization. I said "it looks
            like" that. However, I'm not convinced that is
            actually true. That "God" is running the show.

            Etznab

            -----Original Message-----
            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 1:09 pm
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Promotion of Eckankar - Part
            3 of 3 - Christianization of Eckankar



            Hello Etznab and All,

            Both Twitch and Klemp use the same Bait

            and Switch methods. They will say one thing

            on one hand and something else, or take it

            back, in the next paragraph. This gives people

            in general, and mostly ECKists, the illusion that

            they are important and are FREE SOULS who

            are ONE with the ECK, and that they are their

            own Master (in training of course)! But, they

            NEED the Mahanta to make it all come together

            and make it work. It's a co-dependent relationship!



            But, it's all PR! Let's face the facts, Twitchell

            was one of the biggest liars of his time! ECKists

            (and all religionists) tend to "hang-on" to the

            words and Dogma that make them feel good

            about themselves and their religion. These

            words, concepts, and imaginings give them

            hope that they, too, will reach those heights.

            In Truth, ECKists don't need a Middleman Mahanta

            to give them anything!



            However, even Twitch would sometimes mix

            some truth with fiction to make the lie sound

            better. The TRUTH is that we are all SOUL and

            are ONE with SPIRIT and ALL THAT IS. This is

            what we can take from ECKankar and all religions

            while expanding Our Knowledge and Wisdom

            on Our own. Our purer insights, experiences,

            and awareness can become expanded by using

            the tools that work for us now.



            Prometheus



            etznab wrote:



            "B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being"



            Read page 165 in: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by

            Brad Steiger. Especially the part where Paul says:

            ".... This idea is not completely true, for each of us

            can become the channel of Holy Spirit which can

            flow with supreme abundance to all. ...."



            Seriously, if you ever come across this book, go

            look at what it said. I was quite surprised to come

            across that section because it seemed to run very

            contrary to what Eckankar dogma has in some re-

            spects appeared to be.



            The brief quote I gave is just the tip of a very huge

            "iceberg". My opinion, at least. And that page has a

            lot more to say about the subject. This "iceberg" - &

            what it appears to say - just might be stronger than

            any organized religion will ever be able to stand. My

            guess is that this is what will ultimately "wreck" the

            "solidness" of any and all organized religions. Both

            now, or in the future.



            Etznab
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Jonathan and All, I always thought it was odd that HU Chants were Not supposed to be synchronized with other HU Chants when they were Non-directed.
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 9, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Jonathan and All,
              I always thought it was odd that HU Chants were
              Not supposed to be synchronized with other HU
              Chants when they were Non-directed.

              Actually, I wonder how many ECK voices on those
              HU Chant recordings are actually Directing the ECK
              to do something for them, or for someone else...
              like "Heidi" did!

              Plus, what makes it okay for Heidi to violate the ECK
              Spiritual LAW of NON-INTERFERENCE? And, don't Heidi's
              actions fall under the "Do-Gooder" syndrome that
              Klemp has warned against in past talks? But now it's
              okay!

              I never could figure out why local ECKists weren't
              permitted to have HU Chants that corresponded to the
              Sunday Morning HU Chants at the Major EK Seminars.

              In TM (Transcendental Meditation) the purpose of
              synchronizing meditations, worldwide, was seen as
              a means of raising World consciousness. This meditative/
              contemplative method, (technique) is, also, seen as
              a means of Unification (Unity Consciousness) with Spirit.

              Thus, it benefits the individual Soul via the raising of
              their own consciousness and has the by-product, or
              effect, of raising the consciousness of the whole World
              as well! This raising of consciousness could lead to
              harmony and world peace. ECKists accept the Negative
              Kali-Yuga (time is running out) and yet Klemp only
              attempts to raise world consciousness one person
              (Soul) at a time! What kind of a "Master" is that!

              Do EKists do their heroic acts on a one-on-one
              Christian like basis as "Heidi" does in order to feel
              good? Probably! Look at the "stories" they get to
              tell! Guess what? Most of these "stories" are either
              embellished or are pure fiction!

              Again, with TM, a large gathering of people chanting
              Mantras and Sutras is, also, done without directing
              this Force... just like with the HU Chants.

              Of course, most TMers do their chants privately (like
              ECKists), but it can also be timed with the meditations
              of large gatherings... just like the 8:00 a.m. CST Sunday
              Morning HU Chants could. As a matter of fact... aren't
              ECKists somewhat encouraged to synchronize and do
              their own private HU Chant at this time? I think so!

              Now I'm thinking that Klemp doesn't want Group HU
              Chants "synchronized" because he doesn't want to share
              any "power" with EK Chelas. By synchronizing HU Chants,
              to raise World Consciousness (as a natural by-product
              of this Non-Directed prayer), could mean that ECKists
              would look to and experience the Oneness of the ECK
              (SPIRIT). Why then, would they need a Physical Plane LEM?
              They wouldn't! Klemp and Company just want job security!

              Prometheus


              Jonathan wrote:
              Lastly. A "nondirected prayer?" The whole purpose of prayer is for
              it to be directed. It is an active procedure, not a passive procedure.
              This whole new concept of Harold Klemps is just spin-doctoring the
              HU chant/sing in Eckankar into a new and very disturbing procedure.



              jonathan wrote:

              Since the early days of Eckankar, and mostly since Harold Klemp has
              taken over, it has been busy reforming and redefining itself in order
              to lure in new members. Basically, they are removing anything from
              the introductory literature and talks that could possibly offend
              anyone. This plan includes what I call the "Christianization of
              Eckankar." What I mean by this is that Eckankar is redoing itself so
              that on the surface of things it more closely resembles Christianity.
              Of course, after the new member has been in

              Eckankar's current plan:

              1. We're going to make Eckankar look like Christianity.

              2. We're going to get them to join Eckankar because it "looks
              familiar" to them.

              3. Then we'll slowly brainwash them for several years before we
              teach them the real thing:

              A. Eckankar is patterned after the religions
              Hinduism, Sikhism, and Sant Mat.

              B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being
              (whoever the Living Eck master happens to be at the time).

              A. Eckankar introduces the ''Worship Service''

              A lot of current members of Eckankar who joined rather recently would
              probably be surprised to know that for about the first twenty years
              of Eckankar there was no "Worship Service." In fact, this is
              something Eckankar made up as it went along. Back when this first
              happened I had no inkling as to why Eckankar had done this. Back in
              those days, I can remember asking people "Why does Eckankar have
              a Worship Service anyway? Eckists don't worship anything." I naively
              assumed that people would actually give me an answer. But they
              didn't, and I just "blew it off."

              Let's look at the facts. Eckists don't worship Sugmad (Eckankar's
              word for God). We were taught that God is way beyond any need for
              anyone to worship it. And on the surface of things, we were taught
              that we shouldn't worship the Eck master. So I repeat my original
              question "Why is there a worship service in Eckankar?" It took me
              a long time to figure it out, and I think it must have bee during the
              last month of my time in Eckankar that I finally figured it out.
              Eckankar is trying to appear like Christianity. And for the shameful
              reason of appearing like Christianity so they can lure people in.

              In another post I mentioned that a few months before I left Eckankar
              somebody finally informed me that the Worship Service is for new
              people. That is simply more evidence that what I am saying about the
              Worship Service is true.

              B. HU, the most beautiful prayer

              "HU, the most beautiful prayer" is a new booklet that Harold Klemp
              wrote and was first distributed to the members of Eckankar in late
              November of 2008. Frankly, the lack of spiritual principles in this
              booklet is one of the most despicable things I have ever witnessed in
              Eckankar. I read part of this book. This is a brief summary of some
              of what Klemp said:

              "The right way to pray is to sing a song of love to God."

              "The wrong way to pray is to tell God what to do."

              He completely ignores the third choice which is to ask God for
              spiritual wisdom or guidance.

              Or the fourth choice which is to ask God to fix things or give you
              things.

              He tells the story of a girl named "Heidi" who learns that her
              relative in another place, a little boy, is in a coma. What she then
              did was to go on the inner and ask the little boy and his parents
              to join her in a HU on the inner planes. She then sang the HU while
              remaining neutral. The next day, she learned that the little boy came
              out of the coma. Supposedly, he asked the nurse "Are you Heidi?"

              When I first read this story I didn't immediately see much of a
              problem with it. But later I started to have second thoughts about
              this whole procedure that Heidi did. I disagree with it for the
              reason that it seems to be a very subtle way to intentionally control
              the outcome of a situation. That's not prayer, that's black magic.
              And the fact that little children in Eckankar are being taught this
              technique is disturbing indeed.

              The problem has mostly to do with one question: "Did she in fact
              remain neutral or did she want a particular outcome to take place?"
              My contention is that she wanted a particular outcome to take place.
              That means that she was, in fact, influencing the outcome of a
              situation regarding someone else without their prior permission.
              That is expressly forbidden in Eckankar and is actively called black
              magic by Eckankar.

              But it seems that Eckankar has found a way around this. And for
              two reasons:

              1. So Eckankar can call the HU a prayer and therefore make Eckankar
              more acceptable to Christians, and

              2. So Eckankar can teach its chelas a way to influence others, all
              the while convincing them that they are not doing that.

              In the case of Heidi, a truly spiritual person would have simply
              said "Thine will be done" and then given it to Holy Spirit. She
              would have been much better off simply giving it to Spirit rather
              than wandering into this situation with her HU chant.

              This new procedure that Harold Klemp has invented is using the
              HU to achieve a desired outcome while at the same time you are
              pretending that you are not doing that. Despite the individuals
              best intentions, I feel that most people will have a desired outcome
              even if it is only at the subconscious level. But please remember
              that the subconscious mind energy is more powerful and the
              conscious mind energy so we are really playing with fire here.

              Do you really think that I believe that she didn't want a particular
              outcome? Clearly, she wanted the boy to wake up, or she wouldn't
              have even become involved in the process of using the HU in this
              new manner in the first place. The fact that she got involved in this
              procedure was because she wanted the boy to wake up.

              And if you want more proof, would Harold Klemp have told the story
              about Heidi if the boy had died? The more than obvious answer
              is "No."

              So there is an unspoken message here for all members of Eckankar.
              You are now allowed to use the HU to influence others. What's next?
              Expect the following to come to an Eckankar Center near you. Ten
              Eckists arrive and they all are concerned about say a war in a
              particular country. People are being killed; it's terrible. So they
              decide to, as a group, chant/sing the HU. But beforehand, they
              all invite all of the participants in the war to sing the HU with them
              on the inner. Anybody but me see a problem with this?

              Lastly. A "nondirected prayer?" The whole purpose of prayer is for
              it to be directed. It is an active procedure, not a passive procedure.
              This whole new concept of Harold Klemps is just spin-doctoring the
              HU chant/sing in Eckankar into a new and very disturbing procedure.

              Medical doctors don't treat their own family members due to concerns
              that they will be biased when making decisions. In other words, the
              fact that they are treating someone that they care deeply about could
              adversely affect the objectivity of their decisions. But in the case
              of Eckankar and "HU, The Most Beautiful Prayer," they are going to
              trust little kids to be able to overcome that situation.

              Eckankar's new policy seems to be "Acquiring new members
              no matter what the cost to the original principals of Eckankar."

              And once again, Eckankar is borrowing a concept from Indian
              religions/culture. "Bhajan (BUDGE-in) is a Sanskrit word for
              a Hindu devotional song. The purpose of the song is to praise
              God (Ik onkaar), or honor God (Ik onkaar). On Jan 7, 2009, I spoke
              with a Hindu from North India. I specifically asked her "Is it considered
              to be a prayer too?" She said "Yes." But after talking to her, it was
              clear to me that the Hindu singing the bhajan or listening to the
              bhajan focuses on the words in the song; they are not having
              separate thoughts of their own. Basically, the words are saying
              things like "God, you are great."

              Prometheus, I know that you commented on this "HU, The Most
              Beautiful Prayer," but I wrote 95% of what I have here back at the
              very beginning of December, 2008, about two weeks before I left
              Eckankar. I don't think that you read any of the book, so I think you
              might be very interested in this story about Heidi.
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Jonathan and All, It s true, I haven t read Klemp s HU, the Most Beautiful Prayer. I m not sure if I remember this post either. Allow me to comment on
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 22, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Jonathan and All,
                It's true, I haven't read Klemp's "HU,
                the Most Beautiful Prayer." I'm not
                sure if I remember this post either.
                Allow me to comment on it below.

                jonathan wrote [J]:

                Since the early days of Eckankar, and mostly since Harold Klemp has
                taken over, it has been busy reforming and redefining itself in order
                to lure in new members. Basically, they are removing anything from
                the introductory literature and talks that could possibly offend
                anyone. This plan includes what I call the "Christianization of
                Eckankar." What I mean by this is that Eckankar is redoing itself so
                that on the surface of things it more closely resembles Christianity.
                Of course, after the new member has been in.



                [P]- I agree, IMO, Klemp made his first move to
                recreate Eckankar to look more like Christianity
                when he created the RESA Hierarchy. It's also
                true that HK used the "common language" pretense
                to attract disillusioned Christians versus those
                with Metaphysical and Eastern backgrounds.



                [J] -Eckankar's current plan:

                1. We're going to make Eckankar look like Christianity.
                2. We're going to get them to join Eckankar because it "looks
                familiar" to them.
                3. Then we'll slowly brainwash them for several years before we teach
                them the real thing:
                A. Eckankar is patterned after the religions
                Hinduism, Sikhism, and Sant Mat.
                B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being
                (whoever the Living Eck master happens to be at the time).

                A. Eckankar introduces the ''Worship Service''
                A lot of current members of Eckankar who joined rather recently would
                probably be surprised to know that for about the first twenty years
                of Eckankar there was no "Worship Service." In fact, this is
                something Eckankar made up as it went along. Back when this first
                happened I had no inkling as to why Eckankar had done this. Back in
                those days, I can remember asking people "Whay does Eckankar have a
                Worship Service anyway? Eckists don't worship anything." I naively
                assumed that people would actually give me an answer. But they
                didn't, and I just "blew it off."

                Let's look at the facts. Eckists don't worship Sugmad (Eckankar's
                word for God). We were taught that God is way beyond any need for
                anyone to worship it. And on the surface of things, we were taught
                that we shouldn't worship the Eck master. So I repeat my original
                question "Why is there a worship service in Eckankar?" It took me a
                long time to figure it out, and I think it must have bee during the
                last month of my time in Eckankar that I finally figured it out.
                Eckankar is trying to appear like Christianity. And for the shameful
                reason of appearing like Christianity so they can lure people in.

                In another post I mentioned that a few months before I left Eckankar
                somebody finally informed me that the Worship Service is for new
                people. That is simply more evidence that what I am saying about the
                Worship Service is true.

                B. HU, the most beautiful prayer
                "HU, the most beautiful prayer" is a new booklet that Harold Klemp
                wrote and was first distributed to the members of Eckankar in late
                November of 2008. Frankly, the lack of spiritual principles in this
                booklet is one of the most despicable things I have ever witnessed in
                Eckankar. I read part of this book. This is a brief summary of some
                of what Klemp said:

                "The right way to pray is to sing a song of love to God."
                "The wrong way to pray is to tell God what to do."

                He completely ignores the third choice which is to ask God for
                spiritual wisdom or guidance. Or the fourth choice which is to ask
                God to fix things or give you things.



                [P]- Correct! This just goes to show that
                anyone entering a book in the 2009
                Next Generation Indie Book Awards
                becomes a finalist! It's good PR and
                is a marketing ploy to sell more books.



                He tells the story of a girl named "Heidi" who learns that her
                relative in another place, a little boy, is in a coma. What she then
                did was to go on the inner and ask the little boy and his parents to
                join her in a HU on the inner planes. She then sang the HU while
                remaining neutral. The next day, she learned that the little boy came
                out of the coma. Supposedly, he asked the nurse "Are you Heidi?"



                P- Already, Heidi has violated the EK
                Law of Noninterference when she went
                into their "inner" dreams or consciousness!
                This was an intentional act where she was
                seeking a "positive" (White Magic) outcome.
                This is what the typical follower of God (KAL)
                would do. IMO, Sugmad would neither want
                or require her to do such an act of White Magic
                and then claim that she was "neutral." Having
                empathy is closer to Divine Love than being
                without feelings and being "neutral." Or, was
                it Klemp who put his two cents worth in and
                his words into her mouth to point out that
                Heidi was remaining "neutral?"

                It's obvious that there was a desired outcome,
                or else she never would have done what she
                did. Plus, what do we have really here? It's
                another minor miracle attributed to one
                religion being better than the others. And,
                it was pointed out that Eckankar is better
                by an innocent (pure) and truthful young child.

                However, every religion has stories like this
                and that's the rub for ECKists! These other
                religions worship a 2nd or 4th Plane God who
                is referred to in Eckankar as Kal (i.e. Satan,
                Devil). Just read Klemp's Autobiography page
                385 and look in the index of the combined
                Shariyats for Satan and Devil and you will
                see these names refer to the KAL (God).

                BTW- I wrote this before reading what was
                mentioned below. Apparently we both see
                the same problems with Klemp's stories
                and teachings.





                [J] When I first read this story I didn't immediately see much of a
                problem with it. But later I started to have second thoughts about
                this whole procedure that Heidi did. I disagree with it for the
                reason that it seems to be a very subtle way to intentionally control
                the outcome of a situation. That's not prayer, that's black magic.
                And the fact that little children in Eckankar are being taught this
                technique is disturbing indeed.

                The problem has mostly to do with one question: "Did she in fact
                remain neutral or did she want a particular outcome to take place?"
                My contention is that she wanted a particular outcome to take place.
                That means that she was, in fact, influencing the outcome of a
                situation regarding someone else without their prior permission. That
                is expressly forbidden in Eckankar and is actively called black magic
                by Eckankar.

                But it seems that Eckankar has found a way around this. And for two
                reasons:

                1. So Eckankar can call the HU a prayer and therefore make Eckankar
                more acceptable to Christians, and

                2. So Eckankar can teach its chelas a way to influence others, all
                the while convincing them that they are not doing that.

                In the case of Heidi, a truly spiritual person would have simply
                said "Thine will be done" and then given it to Holy Spirit. She would
                have been much better off simply giving it to Spirit rather than
                wandering into this situation with her HU chant.


                [P]- I agree! "May Thy Will Be Done" is the neutral
                approach. After all, when one uses the HU it was
                supposed to be without direction/purpose. Meeting
                someone on the "Inner" and directing them to HU
                is giving purpose and is controlling the outcome
                which can produce karma. This is all Lower Plane
                stuff. Now, Klemp is calling the HU a "Prayer" and
                the definition of prayer is anything but "neutral."
                Thus, when the young girl was teaching the HU
                Prayer, on the inner, to these people it was so that
                they could also request a desired outcome. What's
                funny is that Eckists don't realize that it's KAL that
                they are praying (HUing) to!




                [J]-This new procedure that Harold Klemp has invented is using
                the HU to achieve a desired outcome while at the same time you
                are pretending that you are not doing that. Despite the individuals
                best intentions, I feel that most people will have a desired outcome
                even if it is only at the subconscious level. But please remember that
                the subconscious mind energy is more powerful and the conscious
                mind energy so we are really playing with fire here.

                Do you really think that I believe that she didn't want a particular
                outcome? Clearly, she wanted the boy to wake up, or she wouldn't
                have even become involved in the process of using the HU in this
                new manner in the first place. The fact that she got involved in this
                procedure was because she wanted the boy to wake up.

                And if you want more proof, would Harold Klemp have told the
                story about Heidi if the boy had died? The more than obvious answer
                is "No."

                So there is an unspoken message here for all members of Eckankar.
                You are now allowed to use the HU to influence others. What's next?
                Expect the following to come to an Eckankar Center near you. Ten
                Eckists arrive and they all are concerned about say a war in a
                particular country. People are being killed; it's terrible. So they
                decide to, as a group, chant/sing the HU. But beforehand, they all
                invite all of the participants in the war to sing the HU with them on
                the inner. Anybody but me see a problem with this?



                [P]- I always thought it rather strange that
                Klemp wouldn't allow EK Centers to conduct
                simultaneous HU Chants that would correspond
                to the Sunday Morning HU Chant/Song conducted
                at ECK Seminars. The word back from the ESC
                was that this "directed" the HU. Of course it didn't,
                direct it anymore than directing people to show
                up in a big hall at 8:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning.
                But, you can't argue with city hall (or the ESC)
                as the saying goes! Now, it would seem that
                anything goes, but don't hold your breath. HK
                will do it his way and will flip-flop on the issue.
                He's the EK puppet master!




                [J]- Lastly. A "nondirected prayer?" The whole purpose of prayer is for it
                to be directed. It is an active procedure, not a passive procedure.
                This whole new concept of Harold Klemps is just spin-doctoring the HU
                chant/sing in Eckankar into a new and very disturbing procedure.

                Medical doctors don't treat their own family members due to concerns
                that they will be biased when making decisions. In other words, the
                fact that they are treating someone that they care deeply about could
                adversely affect the objectivity of their decisions. But in the case
                of Eckankar and "HU, The Most Beautiful Prayer," they are going to
                trust little kids to be able to overcome that situation.

                Eckankar's new policy seems to be "Acquiring new members no matter
                what the cost to the original principals of Eckankar."

                And once again, Eckankar is borrowing a concept from Indian
                religions/culture. "Bhajan (BUDGE-in) is a Sanskrit word for a Hindu
                devotional song. The purpose of the song is to praise God (Ik
                onkaar), or honor God(Ik onkaar). On Jan 7, 2009, I spoke with a
                Hindu from North India. I specifically asked her "Is it considered to
                be a prayer too?" She said "Yes." But after talking to her, it was
                clear to me that the Hindu singing the bhajan or listening to the
                bhajan focuses on the words in the song; they are not having separate
                thoughts of their own. Basically, the words are saying things
                like "God, you are great."

                Prometheus, I know that you commented on this "HU, The Most Beautiful
                Prayer," but I wrote 95% of what I have here back at the very
                beginning of December, 2008, about two weeks before I left Eckankar.
                I don't think that you read any of the book, so I think you might be
                very interested in this story about Heidi.
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.