Re: Questions for the Master #1 - Jan. 2009
Regarding other Eckists' feelings about HK's Columbus comments. I
really feel that the average American doesn't even understand what I
am talking about even when I explain it to them. I guess it requires
some degree of compassion and respect for Native Americans - a lot of
Americans don't have that. As you well know, if Eckists do disagree
with HK, they never say anything about it. For myself, I was simply
disgruntled and kept it to myself. But as time went by I found it
more and more difficult to stay in Eckankar while I was in that state.
I must have had at least five "straws that broke the camels back."
This might have been one of them. I honestly don't remember. I think
it might have been more like "Here is another really stupid thing
about Eckankar. Is there no end to it?"
I really didn't get into the "initiation trap." In my very early days
in Eckankar I had a big disagreement with two HIs at the Eck center.
In hindsight, a lot of it was just my big ego, plus their big egos
adding up to a big disagreement. But at the time it seemed to me that
I had a higher state of consciousness than they did. So I fairly
quickly decided that the initiation was just a number. It bore no
relationship to reality. Believe it or not, one of the highs (7th?)
or somebody confirmed that to me. Also, I pretty much avoided all
involvement in Eckankar so I wasn't interacting with other Eckists on
a regular basis like you were. I retreated and lived in my own world.
Ford Johnson discusses the "initiation trap" so, like you, it must
have been something that was important to him. Perhaps because both
of you were initiators. I'm glad I got the fifth though because I
found out that there was nothing special about the higher initiate
meetings. It was just "more of the same." Same with the HI
I went to the Eck center a lot in my last year because I wanted to
give Eckankar one last try. But I was stirring up trouble by asking
real questions. The more stupid answers that I got from people the
more I had to ask myself "Why am I even in this religion?"
In 1999 when I was a fourth initiate, I went into a 3 to 6 month
period where I had hundreds of hours of inner experiences with Eck
masters. I pretty much told nobody, but the one person I did tell,
said to me "You should be glad because most higher initiates don't
even have that." The problem is that these inner experiences were
overwhelming me. After all these inner experiences I had a lot more
self confidence and at that point I really didn't care one bit about
what initiation I was. I was talking with Harold and Rebazar (and
many others) every day. What the heck do I need an initiation for?
So I guess I'm letting out more of my secrets - that's OK by me. All
I can say is that I know how Graham Forsyth felt.
Ford's book "Confessions" was really valuable to me. I have several
essays about it on my hard drive, maybe I'll post one soon.
Prometheus wrote: (Note that I carried only one message forward)
I wonder how many ECKists had/have a problem
with Klemp's Columbus comments? HK's nonsensical
perspective can be seen as the "straw that broke the
camel's back" for you and how many others! One can
listen to HK's dribble and one dimensional, narrow-minded
statements for just so long and then viola' the veil is
lifted! Having Ford's "Confessions of a God Seeker"
helped me to get through the transition from ECKankar
to discovering the Truth.
But, what do most ECKists do next? I think that many
ECKists just pull back and take a "rest" without actually
going on a "rest period." Why take yourself out of the
game and of buying that lotto ticket for that next initiation
since it's still possible to get that next one right?
Except, by now, most H.I. ECKists know that the Higher
EK Initiations really don't mean a thing! You're still you!
Nothing really changed except in one's mind and having
a membership card with a higher number and title.
Look around at those 7ths, and even the former RESAs,
are they really more spiritually evolved? Not when you get
to really know them! True, they talk the talk really well, but
that's experience! And, they give the "appearance" of having
their act together, but it's mostly just for show! Many "change"
when they leave the company of fellow ECKists or EK events.
Those married to fellow H.I.s know what I'm talking about!
And, while it's true that there are some very nice people In
ECKankar it's equally true that there are MORE very nice people
Outside of ECKankar! I will have to say that one just naturally
grows spiritually over the years when the focus is upon self
introspection and improvement. One must come to "Know thy
Self" and to be honest with oneself and make changes during
the Journey of Life before any Divine Awareness can be achieved.
Unfortunately, for ECKists, one's Desires for initiations and Ego
of thinking one is more spiritually evolved, by having a higher
number, is the "Key" that KAL Agent Klemp uses to trap them!
Thus, the "Higher Initiations" are just the imaginings and
written dogma that the EK Group Consciousness has bought
into. Most ekperiences are merely created by self & group
hypnosis a.k.a. the placebo effect! These are Desired effects,
that are created via the imagination with the stimulation of
reading the delusional and imagined "experiences" of others
and the stories that both Twitchell and Klemp have fabricated.
It's a never ending cycle where the imagination feeds the desires
and delusion of needy and gullible believers for the benefit
of these Astral vampires like Klemp.
And, the "sharing" of stories is another policy that Klemp has
changed over the years.
Before, ECKists were told Not To Share their "spiritual experiences."
This was because most ECKists (including H.I.s) don't have and
don't recall their "Inner" experiences and dreams.
Also, it's very difficult to see how the "ECK" (Spirit) works in
everyday life that is any different than what happens to Non-
ECKists! One really has to put the blinders on to think that the
"Mahanta" is giving them something "special" compared to others
who don't know of him, or those who have rejected him!
For ECKists, it's pure delusion, ignorance, and wishful thinking
to believe that EK Dogma is the highest truth when it is, mostly,
based upon the Ruhani Satsang and Radhasoami teachings. Thus,
ECKankar is just as "valid" as one's former religion!