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Re: Questions for the Master #1 - Jan. 2009

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  • jonathanjohns96
    Prometheus, Regarding other Eckists feelings about HK s Columbus comments. I really feel that the average American doesn t even understand what I am talking
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 27, 2009
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      Regarding other Eckists' feelings about HK's Columbus comments. I
      really feel that the average American doesn't even understand what I
      am talking about even when I explain it to them. I guess it requires
      some degree of compassion and respect for Native Americans - a lot of
      Americans don't have that. As you well know, if Eckists do disagree
      with HK, they never say anything about it. For myself, I was simply
      disgruntled and kept it to myself. But as time went by I found it
      more and more difficult to stay in Eckankar while I was in that state.

      I must have had at least five "straws that broke the camels back."
      This might have been one of them. I honestly don't remember. I think
      it might have been more like "Here is another really stupid thing
      about Eckankar. Is there no end to it?"

      I really didn't get into the "initiation trap." In my very early days
      in Eckankar I had a big disagreement with two HIs at the Eck center.
      In hindsight, a lot of it was just my big ego, plus their big egos
      adding up to a big disagreement. But at the time it seemed to me that
      I had a higher state of consciousness than they did. So I fairly
      quickly decided that the initiation was just a number. It bore no
      relationship to reality. Believe it or not, one of the highs (7th?)
      or somebody confirmed that to me. Also, I pretty much avoided all
      involvement in Eckankar so I wasn't interacting with other Eckists on
      a regular basis like you were. I retreated and lived in my own world.
      Ford Johnson discusses the "initiation trap" so, like you, it must
      have been something that was important to him. Perhaps because both
      of you were initiators. I'm glad I got the fifth though because I
      found out that there was nothing special about the higher initiate
      meetings. It was just "more of the same." Same with the HI

      I went to the Eck center a lot in my last year because I wanted to
      give Eckankar one last try. But I was stirring up trouble by asking
      real questions. The more stupid answers that I got from people the
      more I had to ask myself "Why am I even in this religion?"

      In 1999 when I was a fourth initiate, I went into a 3 to 6 month
      period where I had hundreds of hours of inner experiences with Eck
      masters. I pretty much told nobody, but the one person I did tell,
      said to me "You should be glad because most higher initiates don't
      even have that." The problem is that these inner experiences were
      overwhelming me. After all these inner experiences I had a lot more
      self confidence and at that point I really didn't care one bit about
      what initiation I was. I was talking with Harold and Rebazar (and
      many others) every day. What the heck do I need an initiation for?

      So I guess I'm letting out more of my secrets - that's OK by me. All
      I can say is that I know how Graham Forsyth felt.

      Ford's book "Confessions" was really valuable to me. I have several
      essays about it on my hard drive, maybe I'll post one soon.


      Prometheus wrote: (Note that I carried only one message forward)

      Hello Jonathan,
      I wonder how many ECKists had/have a problem
      with Klemp's Columbus comments? HK's nonsensical
      perspective can be seen as the "straw that broke the
      camel's back" for you and how many others! One can
      listen to HK's dribble and one dimensional, narrow-minded
      statements for just so long and then viola' the veil is
      lifted! Having Ford's "Confessions of a God Seeker"
      helped me to get through the transition from ECKankar
      to discovering the Truth.

      But, what do most ECKists do next? I think that many
      ECKists just pull back and take a "rest" without actually
      going on a "rest period." Why take yourself out of the
      game and of buying that lotto ticket for that next initiation
      since it's still possible to get that next one right?

      Except, by now, most H.I. ECKists know that the Higher
      EK Initiations really don't mean a thing! You're still you!
      Nothing really changed except in one's mind and having
      a membership card with a higher number and title.

      Look around at those 7ths, and even the former RESAs,
      are they really more spiritually evolved? Not when you get
      to really know them! True, they talk the talk really well, but
      that's experience! And, they give the "appearance" of having
      their act together, but it's mostly just for show! Many "change"
      when they leave the company of fellow ECKists or EK events.
      Those married to fellow H.I.s know what I'm talking about!
      And, while it's true that there are some very nice people In
      ECKankar it's equally true that there are MORE very nice people
      Outside of ECKankar! I will have to say that one just naturally
      grows spiritually over the years when the focus is upon self
      introspection and improvement. One must come to "Know thy
      Self" and to be honest with oneself and make changes during
      the Journey of Life before any Divine Awareness can be achieved.
      Unfortunately, for ECKists, one's Desires for initiations and Ego
      of thinking one is more spiritually evolved, by having a higher
      number, is the "Key" that KAL Agent Klemp uses to trap them!

      Thus, the "Higher Initiations" are just the imaginings and
      written dogma that the EK Group Consciousness has bought
      into. Most ekperiences are merely created by self & group
      hypnosis a.k.a. the placebo effect! These are Desired effects,
      that are created via the imagination with the stimulation of
      reading the delusional and imagined "experiences" of others
      and the stories that both Twitchell and Klemp have fabricated.
      It's a never ending cycle where the imagination feeds the desires
      and delusion of needy and gullible believers for the benefit
      of these Astral vampires like Klemp.

      And, the "sharing" of stories is another policy that Klemp has
      changed over the years.

      Before, ECKists were told Not To Share their "spiritual experiences."
      This was because most ECKists (including H.I.s) don't have and
      don't recall their "Inner" experiences and dreams.

      Also, it's very difficult to see how the "ECK" (Spirit) works in
      everyday life that is any different than what happens to Non-
      ECKists! One really has to put the blinders on to think that the
      "Mahanta" is giving them something "special" compared to others
      who don't know of him, or those who have rejected him!

      For ECKists, it's pure delusion, ignorance, and wishful thinking
      to believe that EK Dogma is the highest truth when it is, mostly,
      based upon the Ruhani Satsang and Radhasoami teachings. Thus,
      ECKankar is just as "valid" as one's former religion!

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