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Questions for the Master #3 - Jan. 2009

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  • prometheus_973
    Youth in ECK - Letter of Light Q: 1) Can you describe what it is like to be linked up to the Divine Wisdom Pool at the TENTH INITIATION, as is spoken of in
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 22, 2009
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      Youth in ECK - Letter of Light
      Q: 1) "Can you describe what it is like
      to be linked up to the Divine Wisdom
      Pool at the TENTH INITIATION, as is
      spoken of in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad?

      2) Can you contrast between being within
      that state and earlier in your years in ECK
      before your experience of God Consciousness
      on The Bridge?" Kevin, age 23


      ME: In regard to the Tenth Initiation... HK
      received the 9th in June 1981 and the 12th
      in October of 1981. That's not much time
      to even really "know" the 10th or the 11th!
      BTW-I would think that the 11th is more
      important than the 10th!

      As to "the bridge" incident... HK's "God-Realization
      experience" was just a cover story to hide
      Klemp's embarrassment and long term mental
      imbalance. Klemp's desire to climb the initiation
      ladder along with his delusional thinking and
      narcissism took a negative KAL experience and
      recreated it to look like a divine ECKie experience.


      HK: "Dear Kevin, Yours is quite an important
      question. Let me don my thinking cap and
      see what comes of it."

      ME: Actually, there were TWO very different
      questions. But, for Klemp to "don his thinking
      cap" and "see what comes of it" sounds like he's
      going to come up with another imagined Mental
      Plane story. The ALL KNOWING Mahanta should
      "Know" and Not have to "don his thinking cap"
      in order to "see what comes of it!" One doesn't
      have to "think" about what sounds good, they
      just know and recall the subjective experience.

      HK: "When an individual first undertakes
      a serious study of the ECK teachings, it is
      with a view of coming into a more harmonious
      relationship with the divine will. Each initiation
      along the way results in more love flowing into
      one's heart. As divine love grows, so also does
      wisdom. They go hand in hand."

      ME: Why wasn't "Divine Will" in caps? More narcissism?
      Yes, when one "first" undertakes the EK teachings
      there is more innocence and ignorance of the fact
      that "INITIATIONS" are what really matter. And,
      this "heart" thing... that refers to the Heart Chakra.
      Why isn't "Divine Love" in caps either?

      HK: "The Tenth Initiation does, however, indicate
      a real turning point. For that level marks the place
      where true Mastership begins and the threshold
      phase of the Ninth Initiation leaves off."

      ME: How would Klemp "know" all that much about
      the 9th, let alone the 10th, or the 11th Initiations
      since they all took place from June to October in
      1981! How long does it take for someone to get
      use to the 5th? They aren't even allowed to become
      an EK Cleric, now, for two years or more!

      HK: "After the Ninth, I MORE or LESS stopped
      inadvertently hurting people."

      ME: "Inadvertently, more or less?" What's that mean?
      It means Klemp intentionally hurt people, "after the Ninth,"
      but now he controls his anger more and, now, only hurts
      people accidently, unintentionally and "inadvertently!"

      HK: "The Tenth is where the will of the Divine reigns
      supreme. This simply means that the initiate's will
      is in complete accord with the Sugmad and the ECK."

      ME: Why is it that Sugmad resides on the Tenth Plane
      when there are Planes higher? It's because Twitch
      added these other Planes when he created the Mahanta
      title for the Jan. 1969 Wisdom Notes.

      HK: "Henceforth, all thoughts and feelings are perfectly
      inspired by God's love. Every deed, then, is the product
      of that love. It is, moreover, the expressing of pure wisdom,
      where even the HUMBLEST action accomplishes Some spiritual
      GOOD, everywhere and all the time. Your attention is certainly
      in the right direction, Kevin. I hope this answer helps."

      ME: Klemp never gives a direct answer does he! Anyone
      could have made this up. Just read the EK brochures!

      And, Klemp never did comment about "the Bridge"
      question!

      It's interesting how Klemp relates Mental Plane "thoughts"
      and Astral Plane "feelings" to the TENTH Plane (the Anami
      Lok) where Sugmad resides. "Every deed is the product of
      love" should apply to a 12th Initiate, as well, due to "as above
      so below." Thus, "every deed" of Darwin's was, also, "the
      product of love." Yet, we see how Klemp, as a 12th LEM,
      continued to "inadvertently," or intentionally, "hurt" Darwin.

      And notice how Klemp, indirectly, refers to his humility.
      How vain! Klemp wants his believers to Feel Good and to
      give them hope that they too can become TENTH Initiates.
      But, not in this lifetime! That's only a pipe dream. How can
      that ever happen? Klemp has "slowed down" initiations
      for everyone! Anyway, the bullshit got rather deep once
      again! Basically, if someone has a question for Klemp it's
      best to just grab the most current EK brochure and there's
      your answer!

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      I wonder why Klemp didn t do a contrast between his earlier years in ECK and the time he received his 10th Initiation circa July-August 1981 as the
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 23, 2009
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        I wonder why Klemp didn't do a "contrast"
        between his earlier years in ECK and the
        time he received his 10th Initiation circa
        July-August 1981 as the questioner wanted?

        How about a "contrast" between HK's 1970
        "God-Realization experience" and his 10th
        Initiation experience. I'll bet HK stayed
        dry, clothed, and out of the looney bin
        for the 10th Initiation experience! Well,
        I'm fairly certain he did. However, I could
        be wrong!

        prometheus wrote:

        Youth in ECK - Letter of Light
        Q: 1) "Can you describe what it is like
        to be linked up to the Divine Wisdom
        Pool at the TENTH INITIATION, as is
        spoken of in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad?

        2) Can you contrast between being within
        that state and earlier in your years in ECK
        before your experience of God Consciousness
        on The Bridge?" Kevin, age 23


        ME: In regard to the Tenth Initiation... HK
        received the 9th in June 1981 and the 12th
        in October of 1981. That's not much time
        to even really "know" the 10th or the 11th!
        BTW-I would think that the 11th is more
        important than the 10th!

        As to "the bridge" incident... HK's "God-Realization
        experience" was just a cover story to hide
        Klemp's embarrassment and long term mental
        imbalance. Klemp's desire to climb the initiation
        ladder along with his delusional thinking and
        narcissism took a negative KAL experience and
        recreated it to look like a divine ECKie experience.


        HK: "Dear Kevin, Yours is quite an important
        question. Let me don my thinking cap and
        see what comes of it."

        ME: Actually, there were TWO very different
        questions. But, for Klemp to "don his thinking
        cap" and "see what comes of it" sounds like he's
        going to come up with another imagined Mental
        Plane story. The ALL KNOWING Mahanta should
        "Know" and Not have to "don his thinking cap"
        in order to "see what comes of it!" One doesn't
        have to "think" about what sounds good, they
        just know and recall the subjective experience.

        HK: "When an individual first undertakes
        a serious study of the ECK teachings, it is
        with a view of coming into a more harmonious
        relationship with the divine will. Each initiation
        along the way results in more love flowing into
        one's heart. As divine love grows, so also does
        wisdom. They go hand in hand."

        ME: Why wasn't "Divine Will" in caps? More narcissism?
        Yes, when one "first" undertakes the EK teachings
        there is more innocence and ignorance of the fact
        that "INITIATIONS" are what really matter. And,
        this "heart" thing... that refers to the Heart Chakra.
        Why isn't "Divine Love" in caps either?

        HK: "The Tenth Initiation does, however, indicate
        a real turning point. For that level marks the place
        where true Mastership begins and the threshold
        phase of the Ninth Initiation leaves off."

        ME: How would Klemp "know" all that much about
        the 9th, let alone the 10th, or the 11th Initiations
        since they all took place from June to October in
        1981! How long does it take for someone to get
        use to the 5th? They aren't even allowed to become
        an EK Cleric, now, for two years or more!

        HK: "After the Ninth, I MORE or LESS stopped
        inadvertently hurting people."

        ME: "Inadvertently, more or less?" What's that mean?
        It means Klemp intentionally hurt people, "after the Ninth,"
        but now he controls his anger more and, now, only hurts
        people accidently, unintentionally and "inadvertently!"

        HK: "The Tenth is where the will of the Divine reigns
        supreme. This simply means that the initiate's will
        is in complete accord with the Sugmad and the ECK."

        ME: Why is it that Sugmad resides on the Tenth Plane
        when there are Planes higher? It's because Twitch
        added these other Planes when he created the Mahanta
        title for the Jan. 1969 Wisdom Notes.

        HK: "Henceforth, all thoughts and feelings are perfectly
        inspired by God's love. Every deed, then, is the product
        of that love. It is, moreover, the expressing of pure wisdom,
        where even the HUMBLEST action accomplishes Some spiritual
        GOOD, everywhere and all the time. Your attention is certainly
        in the right direction, Kevin. I hope this answer helps."

        ME: Klemp never gives a direct answer does he! Anyone
        could have made this up. Just read the EK brochures!

        And, Klemp never did comment about "the Bridge"
        question!

        It's interesting how Klemp relates Mental Plane "thoughts"
        and Astral Plane "feelings" to the TENTH Plane (the Anami
        Lok) where Sugmad resides. "Every deed is the product of
        love" should apply to a 12th Initiate, as well, due to "as above
        so below." Thus, "every deed" of Darwin's was, also, "the
        product of love." Yet, we see how Klemp, as a 12th LEM,
        continued to "inadvertently," or intentionally, "hurt" Darwin.

        And notice how Klemp, indirectly, refers to his humility.
        How vain! Klemp wants his believers to Feel Good and to
        give them hope that they too can become TENTH Initiates.
        But, not in this lifetime! That's only a pipe dream. How can
        that ever happen? Klemp has "slowed down" initiations
        for everyone! Anyway, the bullshit got rather deep once
        again! Basically, if someone has a question for Klemp it's
        best to just grab the most current EK brochure and there's
        your answer!

        Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        This is more redundancy from Klemp, but, once again, he avoids a direct response to the bridge part of this question. HK hides in plain sight and, yet, this
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 5, 2009
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          This is more redundancy from Klemp,
          but, once again, he avoids a direct
          response to "the bridge" part of this
          question. HK hides in plain sight
          and, yet, this trickery and misdirection
          seems to work with his delusional
          followers! They've all bought into
          the fantasy!

          Klemp recycles two Youth in ECK,
          Letter of Light articles for the JUNE
          2009 The Mystic World, ASK the MASTER:

          Youth in ECK - Letter of Light
          Jan. 2009 Questions for the Master:

          Q: 1) "Can you describe what it is like
          to be linked up to the Divine Wisdom
          Pool at the TENTH INITIATION, as is
          spoken of in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad?

          2) Can you contrast between being within
          that state and earlier in your years in ECK
          before your experience of God Consciousness
          on The Bridge?" Kevin, age 23


          ME: In regard to the Tenth Initiation... HK
          received the 9th in June 1981 and the 12th
          in October of 1981. That's not much time
          to even really "know" the 10th or the 11th!

          BTW-I would think that the 11th is more
          important than the 10th! PT's Shariyat One,
          Ch. 8 talks about initiates of the Nine worlds
          and states, "and fewer still ever become
          Eleventh-world initiates."

          NOTE: It's interesting, too, that in the paragraph
          just above this PT tells how an unconscious person
          can be "saved" in the 11th hour of their life just
          by whispering "Mahanta" in their ear. Didn't HK
          give a talk once where he made fun of similar
          Christian practices and beliefs? Yes he did! What
          a hypocrite!

          As to "the bridge" incident... HK's "God-Realization
          experience" was just a cover story to hide
          Klemp's embarrassment and long term mental
          imbalance. Klemp's desire to climb the initiation
          ladder along with his delusional thinking and
          narcissism took a negative KAL experience and
          recreated it to look like a divine ECKie experience.


          HK: "Dear Kevin, Yours is quite an important
          question. Let me don my thinking cap and
          see what comes of it."


          ME: Actually, there were TWO very different
          questions. But, for Klemp to "don his thinking
          cap" and "see what comes of it" sounds like he's
          going to come up with another imagined Mental
          Plane story. The ALL KNOWING Mahanta should
          "Know" and Not have to "don his thinking cap"
          in order to "see what comes of it!" One doesn't
          have to "think" about what sounds good, they
          just know and recall the subjective experience.


          HK: "When an individual first undertakes
          a serious study of the ECK teachings, it is
          with a view of coming into a more harmonious
          relationship with the divine will. Each initiation
          along the way results in more love flowing into
          one's heart. As divine love grows, so also does
          wisdom. They go hand in hand."


          ME: Why wasn't "Divine Will" in caps? More narcissism?
          Yes, when one "first" undertakes the EK teachings
          there is more innocence and ignorance of the fact
          that "INITIATIONS" are what really matter. And,
          this "heart" thing... that refers to the Heart Chakra.
          Why isn't "Divine Love" in caps either?


          HK: "The Tenth Initiation does, however, indicate
          a real turning point. For that level marks the place
          where true Mastership begins and the threshold
          phase of the Ninth Initiation leaves off."


          ME: How would Klemp "know" all that much about
          the 9th, let alone the 10th, or the 11th Initiations
          since they all took place from June to October in
          1981! How long does it take for someone to get
          use to the 5th? They aren't even allowed to become
          an EK Cleric, now, for two years or more!


          HK: "After the Ninth, I MORE or LESS stopped
          inadvertently hurting people."


          ME: "Inadvertently, more or less?" What's that mean?
          It means Klemp intentionally hurt people, "after the Ninth,"
          but now he controls his anger more and, now, only hurts
          people accidently, unintentionally and "inadvertently!"


          HK: "The Tenth is where the will of the Divine reigns
          supreme. This simply means that the initiate's will
          is in complete accord with the Sugmad and the ECK."


          ME: Why is it that Sugmad resides on the Tenth Plane
          when there are Planes higher? It's because Twitch
          added these other Planes when he created the Mahanta
          title for the Jan. 1969 Wisdom Notes.


          HK: "Henceforth, all thoughts and feelings are perfectly
          inspired by God's love. Every deed, then, is the product
          of that love. It is, moreover, the expressing of pure wisdom,
          where even the HUMBLEST action accomplishes Some spiritual
          GOOD, everywhere and all the time. Your attention is certainly
          in the right direction, Kevin. I hope this answer helps."


          ME: Klemp never gives a direct answer does he! Anyone
          could have made this up. Just read the EK brochures!

          And, Klemp never did comment about "the Bridge"
          question!

          It's interesting how Klemp relates Mental Plane "thoughts"
          and Astral Plane "feelings" to the TENTH Plane (the Anami
          Lok) where Sugmad resides. "Every deed is the product of
          love" should apply to a 12th Initiate, as well, due to "as above
          so below." Thus, "every deed" of Darwin's was, also, "the
          product of love." Yet, we see how Klemp, as a 12th LEM,
          continued to "inadvertently," or intentionally, "hurt" Darwin.

          Also, notice how Klemp, indirectly, refers to his humility.
          How vain! Klemp wants his believers to Feel Good and to
          give them hope that they too can become TENTH Initiates.
          But, not in this lifetime! That's only a pipe dream. How can
          that ever happen? Klemp has "slowed down" initiations
          for everyone! Anyway, the bullshit got rather deep once
          again! Basically, if someone has a question for Klemp it's
          best to just grab the most current EK brochure and there's
          your answer!

          Prometheus

          p.s. It seems that Darwin Gross was a Mahanta
          after all! In the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One,
          Ch. Five is this quote: "... all Living ECK Masters,
          in their days on earth, wore the mantle of the
          Mahanta."
        • prometheus_973
          This same Jan., 2009 Letter of Light Q&A is repeated in the June, 2009 The Mystic World! I wonder why Klemp didn t do a contrast between his earlier years
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 16, 2009
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            This same Jan., 2009 Letter of Light
            Q&A is repeated in the June, 2009
            The Mystic World!

            I wonder why Klemp didn't do a "contrast"
            between his "earlier" years in ECK and the
            time he received his 10th Initiation circa
            July, 1981 [by Darwin (Dap Ren) the Inner
            Master] as the questioner wanted?

            How about a "contrast" between HK's "earlier"
            years 1967, 1968, 1969 (playing ping-pong
            and milking cows) prior to his 1970 "God-Realization
            experience" (the bridge jump, strip tease
            at an airport, and being confined to a mental
            institution), and his one month stint as a 10th
            Initiate?


            prometheus wrote:

            Youth in ECK - Letter of Light - Jan. 2009/
            The Mystic World of ECKankar - June, 2009

            Q: 1) "Can you describe what it is like
            to be linked up to the Divine Wisdom
            Pool at the TENTH INITIATION, as is
            spoken of in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad?

            2) Can you contrast between being within
            that state and earlier in your years in ECK
            before your experience of God Consciousness
            on The Bridge?" Kevin, age 23

            ME: It's strange that this person wants to
            know about what the "contrast" would have
            been like for Klemp prior to his "God Realization"
            and the "experience" of the 10th. No wonder
            Klemp avoided answering this!

            In regard to the Tenth Initiation: Klemp
            received the 8th in May/June, 1980; the 9th
            in June, 1981; the 10th circa July, 1981; the
            11th circa Aug. 1981; the 12 in October of
            1981. That's not much time to even really
            "know" the 9th, 10th, or the 11th! ["Soul
            Travelers of the Far Country," CH. 7]

            BTW-I would think that the 11th is more
            important than the 10th! It is mentioned
            in the Shariyat that the 11th is a special
            mile stone and is very important! Why doesn't
            HK set the record straight on this point? Did
            he forget?

            As to "the bridge" incident... HK's "God-Realization
            experience" was just a cover story to hide
            Klemp's embarrassment and long term mental
            imbalance. Klemp's desire to climb the initiation
            ladder along with his delusional thinking and
            narcissism took a negative KAL experience and
            recreated it to look like a divine ECKie experience.


            HK: "Dear Kevin, Yours is quite an important
            question. Let me don my thinking cap and
            see what comes of it."

            ME: Actually, there were TWO very different
            questions. But, for Klemp to "don his thinking
            cap" and "see what comes of it" sounds like he's
            going to come up with another imagined Mental
            Plane story. The ALL KNOWING Mahanta should
            "Know" and Not have to "don his thinking cap"
            in order to "see what comes of it!" One doesn't
            have to "think" about what sounds good, they
            just know and recall the subjective experience.

            HK: "When an individual first undertakes
            a serious study of the ECK teachings, it is
            with a view of coming into a more harmonious
            relationship with the divine will. Each initiation
            along the way results in more love flowing into
            one's heart. As divine love grows, so also does
            wisdom. They go hand in hand."

            ME: Why wasn't "Divine Will" in caps? More narcissism?
            Yes, when one "first" undertakes the EK teachings
            there is more innocence and ignorance of the fact
            that "INITIATIONS" are what really matter. And,
            this "heart" thing... that refers to the Heart Chakra.
            Why isn't "Divine Love" in caps either?

            HK: "The Tenth Initiation does, however, indicate
            a real turning point. For that level marks the place
            where true Mastership begins and the threshold
            phase of the Ninth Initiation leaves off."

            ME: How would Klemp "know" all that much about
            the 9th, let alone the 10th, or the 11th Initiations
            since they all took place from June to October in
            1981! How long does it take for someone to get
            use to the 5th? They aren't even allowed to become
            an EK Cleric, now, for two years or more after getting
            the 5th!

            HK: "After the Ninth, I MORE or LESS stopped
            inadvertently hurting people."

            ME: "Inadvertently, more or less?" What's that mean?
            It means Klemp intentionally hurt people, "after the Ninth,"
            but now he controls his anger more and, now, only hurts
            people accidently, unintentionally and "inadvertently!"

            HK: "The Tenth is where the will of the Divine reigns
            supreme. This simply means that the initiate's will
            is in complete accord with the Sugmad and the ECK."

            ME: Why is it that Sugmad resides on the Tenth Plane
            when there are Planes higher? It's because Twitch
            added these other Planes when he created the Mahanta
            title for the Jan. 1969 Wisdom Notes.

            HK: "Henceforth, all thoughts and feelings are perfectly
            inspired by God's love. Every deed, then, is the product
            of that love. It is, moreover, the expressing of pure wisdom,
            where even the HUMBLEST action accomplishes Some spiritual
            GOOD, everywhere and all the time. Your attention is certainly
            in the right direction, Kevin. I hope this answer helps."

            ME: Klemp never gives a direct answer does he! Anyone
            could have made this up. Just read the EK brochures!

            And, Klemp never did comment about "the Bridge"
            question!

            It's interesting how Klemp relates Mental Plane "thoughts"
            and Astral Plane "feelings" to the TENTH Plane (the Anami
            Lok) where Sugmad resides. "Every deed is the product of
            love" should apply to a 12th Initiate, as well, due to "as above
            so below." Thus, "every deed" of Darwin's was, also, "the
            product of love." Yet, we see how Klemp, as a 12th LEM,
            continued to "inadvertently," or intentionally, "hurt" Darwin.

            And notice how Klemp, indirectly, refers to his humility.
            How vain! Klemp wants his believers to Feel Good and to
            give them hope that they too can become TENTH Initiates.
            But, not in this lifetime! That's only a pipe dream. How can
            that ever happen? Klemp has "slowed down" initiations
            for everyone! Anyway, the bullshit got rather deep once
            again! Basically, if someone has a question for Klemp it's
            best to just grab the most current EK brochure and there's
            your answer!

            Prometheus
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