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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: PT & HK Describe Yaubl and Fubbi Differently!

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  • etznab@aol.com
    I thought the heart attack was caused when PT was poisoned in Spain (or so I was told)? Leanne, The reported poisoning incident was in the year (August?,
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 17, 2009
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      "I thought the heart attack was caused when PT was
      poisoned in Spain (or so I was told)?"

      Leanne,

      The reported poisoning incident was in the year
      (August?, September?) 1970. Paul died of heart
      attack in September 1971. The date is now called
      "Founder's Day" and celebrated on the date of his
      {Paul's) death, September 17th, 1971.

      This is what I believe to be the case.

      Etznab.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Leanne Thompson <le_anne_thompson@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 2:01 pm
      Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: PT & HK Describe Yaubl
      and Fubbi Differently!



      I thought the heart attack was caused when PT was poisoned in Spain (or
      so I was told)?
       
      Leanne

      --- On Wed, 1/14/09, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      wrote:

      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: PT & HK Describe Yaubl and
      Fubbi Differently!
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 10:39 AM




      Hello Etznab and All,
      All LEMs are supposed to appoint
      a successor. This is why Gail had
      to have had her "dream" with Paul
      "appointing" Darwin. But, was she
      lying? Or, was it really "Paul" that
      spoke to her and not an Astral entity
      in disguise? Therefore, was Darwin's
      reign tainted from the very beginning,
      thus, making all of the initiations
      he handed out tainted=2
      0and false as
      well!

      BTW- Since Paul was NO LONGER
      a physically "LIVING" ECK Master the
      dream Should Not have carried as
      much weight and validity as it did.
      Then again, what choice did they have,
      but to make up another lie. Paul would
      have seen the humor of it!

      However, Twit should have had a Will
      that named a successor. Did PT have
      a Will naming another successor, or was
      it misplaced... accidently of course? I'm
      thinking that Twitch didn't plan on dying
      for at least 10-20 years. That heart attack
      caught him
      completely off guard, and
      everyone else as well! They (Gail & the EK
      Board) had to think fast to save the corporation.
      Gail seems to have always landed on her
      feet. Still, PT could have had a Will lying
      around that wasn't filed or recorded.
      Maybe a WILL would have named Dr. Blunt
      (sic?) or Chet (the General Manager of ECKankar)
      as the LEM?

      Anyway, according to ECK Dogma the
      LEM ONLY must appoint his successor,
      thus, REBAZAR (the Torchbearer) cannot
      step in to hand off the Rod of ECK Power.
      That is Not his role! Unless, it was actually
      Rebazar (in disguise as Paul) that appeared
      in Gail's dream. And, on midnight 22/10/1971
      R.T. handed Darwin the Rod of ECK Power?

      Also, Paul claimed that "Sudar" handed him
      off to Rebazar, for more training, even though
      Sudar was the LEM! Does this mean that current
      ECKists can, also, look to REBAZAR for more
      Spiritual Training than to the current

      M/LEM?
      ECKists can claim that Rebazar took them on
      as chelas even though Klemp is angry and is
      "throwing rocks" at them and the other ECK
      Masters.

      And, who did Sudar appoint as the LEM to
      succeed him since he supposedly died in 1955
      as PT had claimed? Did Sudar appoint Twitchell
      in advance, or in a dream, or did Rebazar appoint
      Twitchell in a dream? R.T. would appear at night
      to dictate to Twitch. This would mean that Rebazar
      FILLED-IN as the M/LEM from 1955-1965!

      Or, was there another LEM after SUDAR SINGH
      that FILLED-IN from 1955-1965? If there was
      he's never been mentioned by name!

      Of course the Truth is that SUDAR SINGH was
      actually KIRPAL SINGH and KIRPAL was Paul's
      Ruhani Satsang Master from 1955-1965. And,
      KIRPAL SINGH died in 1974. Even Klemp mentions
      on ECKankar.org that Kirpal had Paul's "The Tiger's
      Fang" manuscript that he mailed back to Paul
      around June,
      1966.

      Twitchell lied about KIRPAL SINGH because Paul
      didn't want to link his new Westernized ECKankar
      to its original roots of Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang
      because this would ruin his story about an "Ancient
      Lineage of ECK Masters" that he is connected to, or
      that he is the TOP DOG (GOD) of this Hierarchy. Also,
      if ECKists investigated these other two religions they
      would discover "The Path of the Masters" and see
      where he (Twitchell) found most of his dogma and
      plagiarized sources for his books.

      Prometheus

      etznab wrote:
      0AI just finished an A.R.E. post about that first
      question. My opinion.

      Sudar Singh was (reportedly) an Eck Master,
      but he was born after Rebazar Tarzs. His term
      as Living Eck Master would have suceeded the
      Living Eck Master in the 1800s, it seems to me.

      My question was: "Did Sudar Singh appoint
      a successor before he died in what "seems to
      be"
      1955?

      Also, I believe that Paul Twitchell mentioned
      someplace that Sudar Singh gave him his 2nd
      initiation. If it wasn't the second, then I suspect
      it would at least have been the first. This would
      mean that Paul Twitchell was initiated by Sudar
      Singh. He would be Sudar Singh's chela. That
      is unless, of course, "Sudar Singh" was really
      Kirpal Singh.

      I believe there is enough evidence to indicate
      that Kirpal Singh's name was replaced by Sudar
      Singh, in some instances. Is this because Paul
      Twitchell, as early as 1964, decided to illustrate
      a line of Masters that didn't include Kirpal Singh
      and Sawan Singh? It seems to make sense - to
      me - that he had to do this. Otherwise, how could
      he found Eckankar and become the Living Eck
      Master in 1965 with Kirpal Singh & Sawan Singh
      as a part of his lineage? Especially since it was
      Kirpal Singh (and others) who were the Masters
      claiming
      successorship to their own lineage?

      Etznab

      -----Original Message-----
      prometheus wrote:

      If Sudar was the 970th LEM then why

      was he 500 year old Rebazar's pupil
      0A
      instead of the 969th LEM's pupil? Who

      was the 969th LEM? Twitch built lies

      upon lies and that's why these questions

      were never asked and never voluntarily

      explained by Twitchell, Gross, or Klemp!

      From "DIFFICULTIES OF BECOMING THE

      LIVING ECK MASTER" pages 109-113:

      PT: "Now, Sudar Singh was a pupil

      of Rebazar Tarzs, and Rebazar Tarzs

      was a pupil of Fubbi Quantz, and

      Fubbi Quantz was a pupil or a chela

      of Yaubl Sacabi." [pg. 111]

      Hello All,

      To sum it up, it seems Klemp got it wrong

      again! PT states that YAUBL "LOOKS VERY OLD"

      and "HE DOESN'T WALK UPRIGHT" while FUBBI

      "WEARS A HIGH TURBAN," and is "SIX FEET

      THREE" and that's without the "high
      turban!"

      ["DIFFICULTIES, " pages 110 & 113]

      Descriptions of ECK Masters

      Yaubl Sacabi -- According to ________Yaubl Sacabi -- According to

      PT in "Difficulties: "________ _______HK in The ECKankar Lexicon:

      "FIVE FEET EIGHT or TEN"________ _According to the picture he's

      "sort of a square figure"_____ ________bald and looks 40-50 years

      "he speaks wit great dignity"____ _____Also, HK claims he was alive

      ____________ _________ _________ _in "2000-1700 B.C." which

      "old... I would say, 2000-
      3000 years"______ _________ means he's 3700-4000 years

      ____________ _________ _____old Not "2000-3000 years" old.

      "He lives in a place called Agam_____HK says he's NOT "very old"

      Des"________ ______
      ___ _________ _looking, thus, he's not "bent

      ____________ _________ _________ __over" as PT stated.

      [Note: Agam Des/Lok is the 9th Plane]

      "he is the leader of this
      group_______ _Whose right? PT or HK?

      who are the God-Eaters." _________ ______

      "His FACE is of a LIGHT COLOR"____*Yaubl Sacabi -- According to

      "he has very PALE BLUE EYES"_______ HK in "Those Wonderful ECK

      "He looks very ascetic"____ _________ Masters:"

      "HE LOOKS VERY OLD"________ _____"A strong nose, thick neck,

      "HE DOESN'T WALK UPRIGHT_____ WELL-DEVELOPED MUSCLES

      HE WALKS VERY SLOWLY"_____ _____in arms and chest outline

      "a very high, well, I don't_______ ___a capable, rugged appearance,

      call it A HIGH VOICE, but I'd________bald head looks a bit like

      say a medium voice. It speaks______ __a brass dome [p.145]...

      in a higher pitch than most ______A ROBUST MAN of about average

      ____________ _________ _________ height, a sturdy specimen...

      voices do... he has very long ________[p. 133] a short maroon robe

      slender hands "he wears a sort_______and sturdy sandals
      with

      of a sandal.. a TOGA TYPE of_________wide straps." [p. 148]

      GOWN."

      [PT never mentions, here, that Yaubl was BALD]

      "he likes to sit in a corner at what

      w
      e would call, a public market."

      "He sometimes goes into the temple

      and talks from a podium"

      "There's a light that shines over him

      as if an electrical bulb has been
      put

      inside of him and turned on and the

      effervescence of the light just shines

      out from him."

      FYI- Here's some comments from page 151 in "Those Wonderful

      ECK Masters." Klemp is telling a story where a chela has a "vision"

      and met an entity "the Indian guide was Yaubl Sacabi in DISGUISE."

      Next, she meets Yaubl in a class he's teaching where he's "telling

      of the enormous DANGER of WHITE MAGIC, even of dabbling in

      it. [How about Black Magic is it as dangerous? BTW- "Disguising"

      oneself as an "Indian guide"
      isn't dabbling in White Magic?] Yaubl

      continues, "He pointed out that when someone thinks he's above

      another, it is a kind of White Magic, too, and has consequences. "

      [Thus, the EK Spiritual Hierarchy and, especially, the RESA

      Hierarchy with the initiation levels and Positions of Power above

      others is a form of White Magic... what are the consequences? ]

      Fubbi Quantz -- According to PT_____Fubbi Quantz -- According to

      in "Difficulties: "________ _________ _____HK in The ECKankar Lexicon:

      "a rather SERIOUS PERSONALITY" _____Fubbi' s been around since "500
      B.C."

      "there are times when he's a_________which means he's 2500 years old,

      humorous sort of a person."____ ___and Not 1000 years old as PT said!

      "He wears a HIGH TURBAN"_____ ____There' s No "Turban" and certainly not

      "he wears a LONG WHITE ROBE."______ a "high" one! And No, he was not the
      =0
      D
      "he doesn't do much
      appearing___ ____"spiritual guide" for Columbus nor

      to people"_____ _________ _________ did they search for "protein" in
      order

      "He's VERY BUSY there in the________to revitalize depleted nutrition for

      teachings of The Shariyat-Ki- _________ Europeans. So who's right
      again...

      Sugmad" "He is awfully busy in________PT or HK? Oops! I forgot! Klemp

      several ways, he has an age which_____copied the descriptions from PT's

      is somewhat older than most of the____ECKankar Dictionary!

      ages."

      "I would say the man... is close to

      1,000 years of age."

      "He came back as a co-worker in____[What' s with this? He came back

      the early days, maybe 500-600_____ _again after a long vacation on

      years ago."_______ _________ ________the Inner Planes or what?]

      "He is VERY TALL, he's about_______ __[Does Fubbi look tall? Were

      SIX FEET THREE"______ _________ ___people that tall back in
      those

      "very swarthy, has long hands,______ _____days? Maybe Goliath was that

      and very pointed feet"_______ _________ tall, but I'd say PT was making

      "wears a LONG WHITE ROBE"_______ ___it all up! Hey! Maybe that

      "a VERY SERIOUS sort of a man."______" High Turban" made him 6'3"!]

      "He will joke and laugh at times"_____* Fubbi Quantz According to HK in

      "You feel a lightness about him that____"Those Wonderful ECK Masters"

      you do around Sudar Singh."

      "Fubbi Quantz has a DEEP ROLLING____" a tall, el
      derly man with white
      hair

      VOICE."_____ _________ _________ _____and beard, and a gentle smile...

      "He looks upon everything in life_______a WHITE ROBE that reaches WELL

      VERY SERIOUSLY"__ _________ _________ BELOW HIS KNEES... PT once

      "he has a very strong mental trait"______ _described him as having a

      "he takes all of his duties______ _________ LATERN JAW."

      EXCEEDINGLY
      SERIOUS."___ _________ _"long white hair" [pg. 29] "his

      ____________ _________ _________ ___most striking feature was a

      ____________ _________ _________ ___LONG WHITE BEARD." [pg. 41]

      NOTE: On page 36 of TWEM Klemp

      tells a story of an ECKist who, at first,

      confused FUBBI with JESUS. I thought

      it was GOPAL DAS that they confused

      with JESUS!

      BTW- In the 2000 copyright of the

      combined printing of the Shariyats

      Books 1&2 on page X is the following:

      "BOOK ONE is the first section of

      these works, which was DICTATED by

      FUBBI QUANTZ, the great ECK Master

      who serves at the Katsupari Monastery

      in northern Tibet."

      "BOOK TWO, is the second section of

      these works of the Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad,

      which was DICTATED by YAUBL SACABI,

      the great ECK Master who serves at the

      Gare-Hira Temple of Golden Wisdom at

      AGAM DES in the
      Hindu Kush20mountains. "

      Question: Why is Yaubl the guardian of

      the second (Astral) plane Book Two of

      the Shariyat when he resides on A
      gam

      Des, the 9th Plane? And Why is Gopal

      Das the guardian of the "fourth book"

      of the Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad on the "Astral

      Plane." [Shariyat 2, CH. 9] Shouldn't the

      "fourth book" be on the Mental Plane?

      And, why hasn't Gopal "dictated" the

      "fourth book" to Klemp?

      Here are some interesting tidbits I found

      in the Shariyat 2, CH. 4:

      "Fubbi Quantz, Rebazar Tarzs, and other

      ECK Masters, all having attained a high

      degree of consciousness well beyond the

      level of man, appear differently to man."

      Is that a disclaimer, or another Catch-22?

      "The state of the ECK Master is that he must

      be as perfect as the ECK or that which is known

      as the Sugmad... His human body, through which

      he
      operates, is in a state of health and is retained

      as long as his position is necessary within this

      physical world, several hundred years if necessary.

      Spiritually, the Living ECK Master lives in a state

      of God Consciousness for twenty-four hours a

      day. Also he has developed, but doesn't seek,

      what is known as the various siddhis powers,

      due to his high state of evolution."

      BTW- In Klemp's Lexicon he defines "siddhis" as:

      "Psychic powers, spiritual powers,
      supernormal powers, prophecy, healing,
      etc."

      Prometheus
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