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Re: The fear-based curse that HK put on Darwin's materials

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  • jonathanjohns96
    Prometheus, I only carried your text forward, and not my original post. When Harold said that Darwin s photo and written materials were a fear-based curse that
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 8, 2009
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      Prometheus,

      I only carried your text forward, and not my original post.

      When Harold said that Darwin's photo and written materials were a
      fear-based curse that Klemp put on all Eckists. Because from that
      point on, Eckists would be afraid of Darwin's materials. The fact
      that you and another person threw them out so promptly proves that
      the curse worked. The curse worked on me in the same manner because I
      had the same reaction. A short while ago I bought a copy of "Your
      Right To Know." As soon as I unwrapped the package I went into a
      severe state of fear and panic. So I put the book away and went to my
      healer. It turned out that my fear was caused by the fear-based curse
      that Harold Klemp put on Darwin's materials. My healer cleared
      that "energy" from me. A few days later, I picked up Darwin's book
      and read the first half of it with no problems. I was as calm as can
      be. So these curses that Eckankar uses are real, but they can be
      healed. The healing technique used was NET (Neuro-Emotional
      Technique).

      Regarding Harold's photo showing him much younger than he really is.
      I agree with you. It might be his ego, but my take on it is that this
      is a type of Madison Avenue Marketing that Eckankar Headquarters
      dreamed up: "We want a young guy heading our religion, not some old
      guy."

      Your comment about Eastern gurus always having a photo and flowers is
      right on. I was in TM before Eckankar and the way you described it is
      absolutely right. I believe that this very common in India, and they
      don't even think about it. But people should realize that not all
      Hindus follow a guru, and I would say that the vast majority do not.
      They go to the local Hindu temple. There are preists there. The
      followers worship their supreme, omnipresent God (Ik onkaar). They
      worship the Hindu Deities. There are rituals at the temple. They read
      the Hindu scriptures. And that's about it. There are no gurus at the
      temple.

      I don't know specifically about Sikhism, but I would guess that it
      might be similar. Sikhism certainly has gurus because Paul
      Twitchell's teacher Kirpal Singh was a Sikh guru, not a Hindu guru.

      Jonathan


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello J.J.,
      > Welcome to the site! Klemp does have a problem
      > with photos. I wonder if that's related to those
      > meetings, with Darwin, in that Sound Proof Dark
      > Room, that Klemp worked in, at the ESC?
      >
      > Remember, long ago (circa June 1983), what we
      > heard Harry say on that H.I. Tape about Darwin?
      > Klemp said that Darwin was a Black Magician and
      > that we chelas could be influenced (negatively) by
      > his written words or his photos. I had one ECKist
      > (a 4th) say to me, "Well, if Darwin's photo has a
      > negative or psychic effect upon people then why
      > wouldn't Harold's photo as well?" That should have
      > been a "WAKE-UP CALL" for me! His "GOLDEN TONGUED
      > WISDOM" fell upon my deaf ears. His too apparently
      > since he's now a 6th! And, since I was the ECK Center
      > manager, and my friend was the EK area rep, we went
      > in the next day and tossed everything of Darwin's
      > in the dumpster!
      >
      > BTW- Have you ever noticed that on the Wisdom
      > Notes page, of The Mystic World of ECKankar, that
      > Klemp's "Official Photo" is used versus any "current"
      > seminar or "real" photo! The "Official" and the special
      > larger and smaller wallet "Donation" Photos are earlier
      > photos and make Klemp look 10 years younger! And
      > yet, Klemp preaches to ECKists about their vanity!
      >
      > Some individual ECKists (RESAs, etc.) are probably buying
      > the larger "Donation" Photos for display at "special" events
      > while the ECK Centers must update (according to Guidelines)
      > and have a current "Official" photo, on display, at the ECK
      > Centers, as well as, at EK events like Satsangs classes, the
      > EWS, Roundtables, etc. However, ECKankar is run rather
      > loosely and I doubt that All local areas are using the current
      > "Official" Photo. For these ECKists, Klemp looks like he's
      > 50 something! LOL!
      >
      > BTW- Did you ever notice how the followers of those
      > Eastern Gurus always had Photos displayed with flowers
      > around them. Just like ECKists do! I was once in TM and
      > have been to ashrams and shrines and it's all the same...
      > except for one thing. In ECKankar there's no incense being
      > burned! Even Catholics burn incense and have photos
      > of Jesus or the Saints with flowers! Then again... I guess
      > that second-hand smoke can be harmful, but wouldn't
      > the Mahanta protect his chosen ones from harm? Actually,
      > it doesn't really matter since Klemp writes it all off as being
      > one's karma, thus, he never has to "protect" anyone! It's
      > always on them! Catch-22 again!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
    • jonathanjohns96
      I messed up my first sentence: When Harold said that Darwin s photo and written materials were a fear-based curse that Klemp put on all Eckists. should have
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 8, 2009
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        I messed up my first sentence:

        "When Harold said that Darwin's photo and written materials were a
        fear-based curse that Klemp put on all Eckists."

        should have been:

        "When Harold said that Darwin's photo and written materials were
        dangerous or harmful, it was a fear-based curse that Klemp put on all
        Eckists."
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Jonathan, I found your post interesting. However, I can t say that I believe in curses. That s probably why they don t work on me. As for healing I use
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 8, 2009
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          Hello Jonathan,
          I found your post interesting. However,
          I can't say that I believe in curses.
          That's probably why they don't work
          on me. As for healing I use to do Reiki,
          but now do various combinations of my
          own individualized methods.

          BTW- I saw your correction:
          "When Harold said that Darwin's photo
          and written materials were dangerous
          or harmful, it was a fear-based curse
          that Klemp put on all Eckists."

          I believe that HK's point was to spread
          doubt and mistrust with Darwin's image
          (Darshan), and with his words, as the
          Mahanta, which tends to influence ECKists'
          visualizations and dreams.

          Therefore, Klemp was definitely hinting at
          eliminating such things, while instilling fear
          and self-righteousness, by referring to Darwin
          as a "Black Magician."

          Yes, Klemp was the one using a fear-based
          motivation to manipulate and entice us to
          do the the right thing (for him) and reject D.G.,
          and toss out his books and photos. Thus, Klemp
          was/is the real Black Magician!

          I do believe that I was either too trusting, too
          gullible, too immature, and/or too impressionable
          like most ECKists! Plus, those initiations were status
          symbols for the ego. Then again, most people, who
          believe in Religion, have similar fear-based and
          ego-based traits built into their hierarchical belief
          systems too!

          Prometheus


          **************************************************

          jonathan wrote:

          I messed up my first sentence:

          "When Harold said that Darwin's photo and written
          materials were a fear-based curse that Klemp put
          on all Eckists."

          should have been:

          "When Harold said that Darwin's photo and written
          materials were dangerous or harmful, it was a fear-
          based curse that Klemp put on all Eckists."

          ****************************************************

          Prometheus,

          I only carried your text forward, and not my original post.

          When Harold said that Darwin's photo and written materials were a
          fear-based curse that Klemp put on all Eckists. Because from that
          point on, Eckists would be afraid of Darwin's materials. The fact
          that you and another person threw them out so promptly proves that
          the curse worked. The curse worked on me in the same manner because I
          had the same reaction. A short while ago I bought a copy of "Your
          Right To Know." As soon as I unwrapped the package I went into a
          severe state of fear and panic. So I put the book away and went to my
          healer. It turned out that my fear was caused by the fear-based curse
          that Harold Klemp put on Darwin's materials. My healer cleared
          that "energy" from me. A few days later, I picked up Darwin's book
          and read the first half of it with no problems. I was as calm as can
          be. So these curses that Eckankar uses are real, but they can be
          healed. The healing technique used was NET (Neuro-Emotional
          Technique).

          Regarding Harold's photo showing him much younger than he really is.
          I agree with you. It might be his ego, but my take on it is that this
          is a type of Madison Avenue Marketing that Eckankar Headquarters
          dreamed up: "We want a young guy heading our religion, not some old
          guy."

          Your comment about Eastern gurus always having a photo and flowers is
          right on. I was in TM before Eckankar and the way you described it is
          absolutely right. I believe that this very common in India, and they
          don't even think about it. But people should realize that not all
          Hindus follow a guru, and I would say that the vast majority do not.
          They go to the local Hindu temple. There are preists there. The
          followers worship their supreme, omnipresent God (Ik onkaar). They
          worship the Hindu Deities. There are rituals at the temple. They read
          the Hindu scriptures. And that's about it. There are no gurus at the
          temple.

          I don't know specifically about Sikhism, but
          I would guess that it might be similar. Sikhism
          certainly has gurus because Paul Twitchell's
          teacher Kirpal Singh was a Sikh guru, not a
          Hindu guru.

          Jonathan


          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello J.J.,
          > Welcome to the site! Klemp does have a problem
          > with photos. I wonder if that's related to those
          > meetings, with Darwin, in that Sound Proof Dark
          > Room, that Klemp worked in, at the ESC?
          >
          > Remember, long ago (circa June 1983), what we
          > heard Harry say on that H.I. Tape about Darwin?
          > Klemp said that Darwin was a Black Magician and
          > that we chelas could be influenced (negatively) by
          > his written words or his photos. I had one ECKist
          > (a 4th) say to me, "Well, if Darwin's photo has a
          > negative or psychic effect upon people then why
          > wouldn't Harold's photo as well?" That should have
          > been a "WAKE-UP CALL" for me! His "GOLDEN TONGUED
          > WISDOM" fell upon my deaf ears. His too apparently
          > since he's now a 6th! And, since I was the ECK Center
          > manager, and my friend was the EK area rep, we went
          > in the next day and tossed everything of Darwin's
          > in the dumpster!
          >
          > BTW- Have you ever noticed that on the Wisdom
          > Notes page, of The Mystic World of ECKankar, that
          > Klemp's "Official Photo" is used versus any "current"
          > seminar or "real" photo! The "Official" and the special
          > larger and smaller wallet "Donation" Photos are earlier
          > photos and make Klemp look 10 years younger! And
          > yet, Klemp preaches to ECKists about their vanity!
          >
          > Some individual ECKists (RESAs, etc.) are probably buying
          > the larger "Donation" Photos for display at "special" events
          > while the ECK Centers must update (according to Guidelines)
          > and have a current "Official" photo, on display, at the ECK
          > Centers, as well as, at EK events like Satsangs classes, the
          > EWS, Roundtables, etc. However, ECKankar is run rather
          > loosely and I doubt that All local areas are using the current
          > "Official" Photo. For these ECKists, Klemp looks like he's
          > 50 something! LOL!
          >
          > BTW- Did you ever notice how the followers of those
          > Eastern Gurus always had Photos displayed with flowers
          > around them. Just like ECKists do! I was once in TM and
          > have been to ashrams and shrines and it's all the same...
          > except for one thing. In ECKankar there's no incense being
          > burned! Even Catholics burn incense and have photos
          > of Jesus or the Saints with flowers! Then again... I guess
          > that second-hand smoke can be harmful, but wouldn't
          > the Mahanta protect his chosen ones from harm? Actually,
          > it doesn't really matter since Klemp writes it all off as being
          > one's karma, thus, he never has to "protect" anyone! It's
          > always on them! Catch-22 again!
          >
          > Prometheus
        • prometheus_973
          Yes, Klemp does have his ECKies trained to have his picture on hand for those group photo shots in the Mystic World and H.I. Letter. All of those photos do
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 9, 2009
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            Yes, Klemp does have his ECKies trained
            to have his picture on hand for those group
            photo shots in the Mystic World and H.I. Letter.

            All of those photos do promote worship, as well
            as, brain washing and this, too, indicates that
            Klemp has a huge Elephant sized Ego!

            However, photos of Klemp, also, bring in a lot of
            money for him. Like with his books, HK gets 50%
            royalties. This is one more reason why we see so
            many photos being promoted. There's the photo
            for the wallet, one for each car, one for the desk
            at work, one for the desk at home, the photo for
            the living room, the photos for each bedroom, the
            one for the bathroom, the photos for the ECK center,
            and the photos for the Satsang box to take to ECK
            events outside of the EK Center. Plus, "Official" photos
            are supposed to be Updated. And, since the ECK
            Masters were given a touchup most ECKists will
            want these more realistic looking renditions. HK
            has even come out with a photo of his "Gaze."

            I agree that putting the large photos of HK high up
            on the wall does give one the impression that he is
            looking down upon you just like the Sky God in Heaven!
            Klemp is a living god... in his own warped mind and
            in the confused and imbalanced minds of his deluded
            followers. Except for that... he's nobody special!

            Prometheus


            Jonathan wrote:

            After thinking about this a little more, it occurred
            to me that the photo of Harold in the group photos
            of Eckists indicates to me both (1) a worship of Harold
            Klemp, and (2) that Harold Klemp has a big ego.

            I'd like to point out one more interesting thing that
            I have noticed over my many years as a member
            of Eckankar. In my eary days in Eckankar, in the
            main room in the Eck center, at the front of the
            room, there was a small table or stand. It had some
            fake or real flowers on it, plus a fairly small photo
            of the Eck master, say an 8 by 10 inch color photo.
            Now (2008) and for about the past 7 years at least,
            there is a huge color photo high up on the wall in
            the main room in the Eck center. I would say the
            photo is about 14 by 17.5 inches in size.

            I see these photos of Harold Klemp, especially the
            huge photos, as a type of "worship of the Eck master
            by photo." And it seems that over the years Eckankar
            headquarters has been encouraging this type of worship
            of Klemp more and more. I can't say that it is being done
            more often, but the photos are being made larger. Also,
            putting the huge photo of Klemp high on the wall tends
            to put every person in the room in a subserviant position
            to the photo/Klemp.
          • jonathanjohns96
            Prometheus Thanks for your comments. I made all of my observations and conclusions myself. It helps me a great deal when I see that someone else independantly
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 10, 2009
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              Prometheus

              Thanks for your comments. I made all of my observations and
              conclusions myself. It helps me a great deal when I see that someone
              else independantly came to the same conclusions. I especially liked
              your wording "I agree that putting the large photos of HK high up on
              the wall does give one the impression that he is looking down upon
              you just like the Sky God in Heaven!" You really found the right
              words to express it.

              Jonathan


              Prometheus wrote:

              Yes, Klemp does have his ECKies trained
              to have his picture on hand for those group
              photo shots in the Mystic World and H.I. Letter.

              All of those photos do promote worship, as well
              as, brain washing and this, too, indicates that
              Klemp has a huge Elephant sized Ego!

              However, photos of Klemp, also, bring in a lot of
              money for him. Like with his books, HK gets 50%
              royalties. This is one more reason why we see so
              many photos being promoted. There's the photo
              for the wallet, one for each car, one for the desk
              at work, one for the desk at home, the photo for
              the living room, the photos for each bedroom, the
              one for the bathroom, the photos for the ECK center,
              and the photos for the Satsang box to take to ECK
              events outside of the EK Center. Plus, "Official" photos
              are supposed to be Updated. And, since the ECK
              Masters were given a touchup most ECKists will
              want these more realistic looking renditions. HK
              has even come out with a photo of his "Gaze."

              I agree that putting the large photos of HK high up
              on the wall does give one the impression that he is
              looking down upon you just like the Sky God in Heaven!
              Klemp is a living god... in his own warped mind and
              in the confused and imbalanced minds of his deluded
              followers. Except for that... he's nobody special!
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