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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Digest Number 1292

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  • Sharon
    Etznab - Lane wrote the historicity essay. Much of the not-TMOASM material on the internet is from Lane s early a.r.e. posts, but that s not always clearly
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 5, 2009
      Etznab -

      Lane wrote the "historicity" essay. Much of the not-TMOASM material on the internet is from Lane's early a.r.e. posts, but that's not always clearly stated. You should be able to verify sources & find the original a.r.e. posts by using Google's advanced group search, but unfortunately I've done that using complete information on subject, author, date, etc. and sometimes the original post just doesn't turn up. I get a bit frustrated with Google's usenet searches sometimes. They're just not as good as the old original "Dejanews".

      If you find any broken links or pages at the geocities/eckcult site, please let me know and I'll try to fix them. I'm the current "custodian" of that site. Unfortunately, there are a lot of links on the internet to pages that used to exist years ago. I used to write to webmasters to ask them to update but, having fizzled out on checking & keeping my own links up to date, I understand why many dead links will never get fixed.

      By the way, you might be interested in checking out John A. Keel's 1957 book, "Jadoo". It's the kind of book Twitch definitely would have read, and he probably envied Keel's genuine adventures. You might be able to recognize stories that Twitch may have re-written and used himself, since your memory is much better than mine. I believe the book is the source of Twitch's "cliffhanger" phrase and his supposed cat's name. The Katsupari Monastery is also mentioned.

      Have a good week, everyone!

      Hugs,

      Sharon

      PS - Prometheus, over the holidays I was responding to one of your posts but the computer "burped", I lost it, and didn't have time to re-write. Cayce's a.r.e. is "Association for Research & Enlightenment".




      --- On Mon, 1/5/09, EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      > From: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Digest Number 1292
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:16 AM
      > There is 1 message in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1a. Re: Rebazar and Other EK Masters are Myths
      > From: etznab@...
      >
      >
      > Message
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > 1a. Re: Rebazar and Other EK Masters are Myths
      > Posted by: "etznab@..." etznab@...
      > etznab18
      > Date: Sun Jan 4, 2009 3:39 pm ((PST))
      >
      > Prometheus,
      >
      > Thanks for that link.
      >
      > I know there are some different versions
      > of Lane's research on different pages, but
      > not all of the pages and chapter links are
      > up and working.
      >
      > In the last section on that link:
      >
      > The Historicity of Rebazar Tarzs and the question
      > of Lane's biases:
      >
      > who is the author there? Like, the section that
      > begins with:
      >
      > 1. Concerning the historicity of the Eck Masters ....
      >
      > is that David Lane speaking (writing) that, or is
      > it commentary by someone else? I wasn't clear.
      >
      > The title at the top of the page makes me think
      > this page was written by D.L. - and the part where
      > he talks about his sister being a lawyer and then
      > gives the initials.
      >
      > It doesn't really say on the page who is / was the
      > author, but judging by the page address it looks
      > like David's work.
      >
      > I found that part about Rebazar Tarzs interesting.
      > And what was said about the names Kirpal Singh
      > & Sawan Singh.
      >
      > I read: "Now in this book, he mentions Kirpal
      > Singh's
      > and Sawan Singh's names profusely."
      >
      > Is this pertaining to The Tiger's Fang? I'd like
      > to
      > ask David how he knows that. Do you think he saw
      > the 1963 Tiger's Fang manuscript? Or, was it told
      > to him by someone who did.
      >
      > It would be good to verify this. IMO.
      >
      > Etznab
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:35 am
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Rebazar and Other
      > EK Masters
      > are Myths
      >
      >
      >
      > Hello Etznab,
      >
      > I just Googled Rebazar Tarzs and found this site.
      >
      >
      >
      > http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/lane_live/lane_masters.html
      >
      >
      >
      > I think I'll put it in a file.
      >
      >
      >
      > Hello All,
      >
      > I Googled "Rebazar" and found this on geocities.
      >
      > Remember, too, ECKist Doug Marman has stated
      >
      > that Rebazar is probably myth!
      >
      >
      >
      > *************************************************
      >
      >
      >
      > The Validity of Eckankar Masters
      >
      >
      >
      > Or How I Found Rebazar Tarzs on a Surf Trip to Baja
      >
      >
      >
      > I think Johnson's comments on occultation are right on
      > the mark.
      >
      > By claiming that a master such as Rebazar Tarzs still
      > resides in
      >
      > the Himalayan mountains adds an incredible charm to the
      > whole
      >
      > subject--it also provides the logical possibility that a
      > would-be
      >
      > Eckist (not dissimilar, I should add, to the would-be SRF
      > member
      >
      > and his relation with Babaji) can direclty encounter
      > Rebazar Tarzs
      >
      > right now.
      >
      >
      >
      > However, readers on this group must certainly be aware that
      > Rebazar
      >
      > Tarzs, as such, does not exist. He is, as we have stated
      > repeatedly,
      >
      > a cover name for a whole series of gurus--which one, of
      > course, depends
      >
      > upon Twitchell's writing mood at the time (to confirm
      > this, just listen
      >
      > to Paul's early tapes on Rebazar--in one instance he
      > completely forgets
      >
      > who Rebazar Tarzs is until an audience member refreshes his
      > memory;
      >
      > apparently Twitchell was writing so swiftly he started
      > forgetting who
      >
      > he was inventing and naming)
      >
      >
      >
      > Now I am not absolutely certain how Twitchell came up with
      > the name
      >
      > "Rebazar Tarzs" (a friend of mine, Brian Walsh,
      > claims that it is
      > derived
      >
      > from a similar sounding name in a Tibetan Yoga book), but I
      > have one
      >
      > very sneaky suspicion.
      >
      >
      >
      > As I often do I go down to Baja for surfing trips. A couple
      >
      > of years ago as I was heading down south to surf a
      > relatively
      >
      > secluded spot called "Quatro (sp.) casas" (four
      > houses), I noticed
      >
      > to my amazement a highway sign which said "Rebasar
      > Tars". Now
      >
      > I should add that Twitchell used to live in San Diego and
      > Del Mar
      >
      > (both very close to the Baja border). I would not put it
      > past the
      >
      > Twitch to have simply coined the name from one of his trips
      > (with
      >
      > Gail presumably) to Baja.
      >
      >
      >
      > Now if this is too outrageous, just think of the following
      > names:
      >
      > "Jagat Ho" (a cross between "Jagat
      > Singh"--the late Beas master--
      >
      > and a famous cracker "Hi Ho"?????).
      >
      >
      >
      > "Gakko"--the master who brought the true
      > teachings from the
      >
      > planet Venus. Hmm, reminds me of "Gekko" (since
      > this was prior
      >
      > to the star on the soap opera, General Hospital, I am
      > assuming that
      >
      > this is a cross between some master and some creature that
      > hangs
      >
      > on ceilings).
      >
      >
      >
      > And how about "Fubbi Quantz" (my personal
      > favorite). Seems partially
      >
      > derived from a popular Disney movie, if I am not mistaken
      > ("Son of
      > Flubber". . .
      >
      > which leads to Flubby. . . which leads to Fubbi--I am just
      > making these
      >
      > connections as I go along).
      >
      >
      >
      > "Yaubl Sacabi"--- (if my pronounciation of the
      > first name is correct,
      >
      > this is the Twitch's first honest name--- "Ya
      > Bull" (or, "yes this a
      > bull"---
      >
      > but since nobody is going to check these people out
      > historically, I
      > should
      >
      > just keep coming up with off-the-wall names; it adds lure,
      > it adds
      > mystery,
      >
      > it adds money.)
      >
      >
      >
      > Now all of the preceding should not be cited seriously, but
      > it does make
      >
      > you begin to wonder.
      >
      >
      >
      > Where did Twitchell come up with these names? I have my own
      > answer--
      >
      > from a vivid imagination, which was fueled by his extensive
      > reading,
      >
      > his criss-cross travel, and his proclivity for misspelling
      > and
      > mis-dating
      >
      > historical names.
      >
      >
      >
      > Couple this with the desire to coverup, mislead, and to
      > mystify
      >
      > and you get.......the vairagi masters.
      >
      >
      >
      > Even Twitchell's spiritual name "Peddar
      > Zaskq" has the earmarks of
      >
      > a word game; "Dap Ren"--- or "Wah Z"
      > (sound like the grand "Wah Zoo").
      >
      >
      >
      > I don't mean to be disrespectful. However, my sense is
      > that it was
      >
      > exactly Twitchell's intention to be consciously
      > disrespectful (to
      > history,
      >
      > to dates, to books, to facts) which has mislead all of us
      > to believe
      > that
      >
      > Eckankar is more than what most outsiders suspect it is.
      >
      >
      >
      > Now the counterargument is that we begin to have visions
      >
      > of Rebazar. Well, we been through this before---anybody can
      >
      > have visions of anybody whatsoever (even if the characters
      > are
      >
      > not historically real or genuine residents of the astral
      > plane).
      >
      >
      >
      > [K. Paul Johnson interjects: Rebasar in Spanish means to
      > exceed,
      >
      > or in reference to driving, to pass. Tars I can't find
      > in the
      > dictionary.
      >
      > But the sign presumably instructs one about passing lanes
      > or something
      >
      > similar. BTW that's "cuatro."] Questioning
      > the Legitimacy of
      > Twitchellian
      >
      > History - with regard to the coining of new names for
      > previous Eck
      > Masters.
      >
      >
      >
      > Mark S. writes that he is upset with my questioning of the
      >
      > "spiritual names" for previous (and current) Eck
      > Masters. He
      >
      > furher mentions that he would not discuss with me his inner
      >
      > experiences with such beings because I have crossed the
      > line
      >
      > in terms of objectivity.
      >
      >
      >
      > Now Mark is actually right on the mark here (no pun
      > intended).
      >
      > I have crossed the line of objectivity since I really
      > don't know
      >
      > (absolutely) where Twitchell came up with these incredible
      > (and
      >
      > I use incredible here consciously--that is, not believable)
      > sounding
      >
      > names.
      >
      >
      >
      > And when I do use my objective, research oriented method
      >
      > I have come across a severe problem. Most of these
      > characters
      >
      > cannot be verified historically. Indeed, when I went to
      > India to
      >
      > find out if some of these gurus (like Rebazar and Sudar)
      > really
      >
      > did exist, as claimed by Twitchell and others in Eckankar,
      > I found
      >
      > out to my dismay that there was no evidence whatsoever for
      > them.
      >
      > Thus, what is a researcher to do????
      >
      >
      >
      > Well, he/she can simply accept Twitchell's testimony,
      > but there's
      >
      > a catch if he or she does that. Almost everything else
      > Twitchell
      >
      > has stated has turned out to be either false (like his
      > birthdate)
      >
      > or a cover-up (e.g., his association with Kirpal Singh, L.
      > Ron Hubbard,
      >
      > etc.).
      >
      >
      >
      > Thus, when it comes to the alleged facticity of the Vairagi
      >
      > masters, the researcher has to step outside the bounds of
      >
      > objectivity. Indeed, every Eckist I know has to. Why? How
      > else
      >
      > can you believe Twitchellian history when most of it falls
      > beyond
      >
      > the realm of empirical confirmation.
      >
      >
      >
      > Yet, the Eckist sometimes wants it both ways. They want
      >
      > the researcher to be objective, value-free, etc. (most of
      > which,
      >
      > of course, is impossible anyways) when it comes to
      > evaluating
      >
      > the truth claims of their respective religion. However,
      > when the
      >
      > researcher asks them to be objective about the origins of
      > their
      >
      > group, their leader, their genealogical connections, it is
      > occasionally
      >
      > argued that "empiricism" is limited and that Eck
      > deals with things
      >
      > far beyond the rational mind.
      >
      >
      >
      > A simple question arises in my mind. If Rebazar and Sudar
      >
      > and Fubbi and Gakko really did exist, why is it that only
      > Paul
      >
      > Twitchell talks about them???? (I am not talking about
      > inner
      >
      > visions and the like here). It is Twitchell who has access
      > to them.
      >
      > It is Twitchell who knows their names. It is also Twitchell
      > who
      >
      > has systematically lied about almost every important detail
      > in
      >
      > his life. To protect his family??? I think not; it was very
      > family
      >
      > that said he was a liar. Even Twitchell' first wife
      > informed me
      >
      > that Twitchell had a tendency to tell yarns (a polite terms
      > for
      > "lying").
      >
      >
      >
      > So if the Twitch has this fairly bad habit of lying and he
      > is
      >
      > the first guy to talk about a five hundred year old Tibetan
      > monk
      >
      > and nobody either in Tibet or India has heard of the guy,
      > what
      >
      > is the researcher to do????
      >
      >
      >
      > Well, my hunch is that Twitch just made the names up.
      >
      > Now this may seem non-objective, but I ask the internet
      >
      > readers to do the necessary empirical research (go to
      > India,
      >
      > go to Tibet), and find the evidence for Rebazar Tarzs or
      >
      > Twitchell's version of Sudar Singh.
      >
      >
      >
      > I don't mind being wrong. Indeed, it would be quite fun
      > to
      >
      > meet Rebazar. It would be great to add Sudar to my shabd
      >
      > yoga genealogical tree.
      >
      >
      >
      > But all I hear is that some of these beings can only be
      >
      > contacted on the inner planes. They don't appear to
      > skeptics
      >
      > (just like psychics cannot work correctly when a magician
      > is
      >
      > watching them).
      >
      >
      >
      > Mark, I genuinely don't mind being wrong. I think it is
      >
      > a worthy task for you to gather solid evidence for Rebazar
      >
      > Tarzs and crew. (I hasten to repeat that I am not asking
      > for
      >
      > testimonies of others inner experiences--I have already
      > commented
      >
      > on the unreliablity of that already in two pieces: The
      > Politics
      >
      > of Mysticism and the Kirpal Statistic).
      >
      >
      >
      > If I am wrong, I will personally go to Tibet and apologize
      >
      > to Rebazar, providing of course that the Chinese government
      >
      > doesn't mind a foreigner talking to one of their
      > elders.
      >
      >
      >
      > Concerning "Wah Z", I personally didn't mean
      > anything
      >
      > offensive by it. Maybe I am just too jaded. Because even
      > when
      >
      > Eckankar claimed that I was a reincarnation of Kal I
      > didn't get
      >
      > offended. I sort thought of it as a backsided compliment. I
      > mean
      >
      > I know they must have been very taken aback when they tried
      >
      > to sue me and my sister who is an attorney wrote them back
      >
      > a very stern response.
      >
      >
      >
      > Why were they taken aback? My sister's initials are:
      > KAL
      >
      > (Kim A. Lane). Hmmm......
      >
      >
      >
      > On a more serious note, I think this whole business
      >
      > of names and the like should be more thoroughly
      > investigated.
      >
      >
      >
      > I would like to see somebody do the kind of research
      >
      > that Johnson has done on the Theosophical masters. It
      >
      > is very instructive. Check out his latest book which is
      > coming
      >
      > out from SUNY. It is indicative of what needs to be done
      > more
      >
      > thoroughly in Eckankar.
      >
      >
      >
      > Keep ripping, Mark.
      >
      >
      >
      > dave
      >
      >
      >
      > ***
      >
      > Making fun of the names of Eckankar Masters: Volume Two
      >
      > Mark informs me that he is upset with me making fun of
      >
      > the various names of Eck Masters, such as Fubbi Quantz,
      > Yaubl
      >
      > Sacabi, Rebazar Tarz, Jagat Ho, Gakko, Wah Z, Peddar Zaskq,
      >
      > and the like.
      >
      >
      >
      > However, I did at one time take these names seriously;
      > indeed
      >
      > so seriously that I did research here in America, Europe,
      > and India
      >
      > to find out if these characters actually did exist (now I
      > mean "exist"
      >
      > in a earthly, historical--non astral/dream--sense).
      >
      >
      >
      > To my chagrin I found out that there was no historical
      > evidence
      >
      > for their existence, except in a few cases as composite
      > cover-names
      >
      > for earlier teachers in history. Due to this I began to
      > seriously doubt
      >
      > Twitchell's "Vairagi" masters.
      >
      >
      >
      > By understanding how Twitchell profusely plagiarized and
      > made
      >
      > up history, I got a much better insight into the
      > ontological status
      >
      > of these Eck Masters. This naturally led me to doubt Gakko
      > and his
      >
      > Venus genealogy (he came from the city of Retz on the
      > planet Venus,
      >
      > according to Twitchell).
      >
      >
      >
      > Thus, I think it is perfectly appropriate to wonder aloud
      > where
      >
      > Twitchell came up with these names. When I began to use a
      > sense
      >
      > of humor--that is, I began to play word games--I realized
      > that
      >
      > Twitchell just made the names up whenever it became
      > convenient
      >
      > (whether to hide his past or make up a richer sounding
      > mythology).
      >
      >
      >
      > Now this offends Eckists like Mark, since it no doubt calls
      > into
      >
      > question the veracity of the Eckankar enterprise. I
      > understand how
      >
      > my elasticity and my questioning and my humor could be
      > offensive
      >
      > to devout believers.
      >
      >
      >
      > But I find Twitchell's myth-making, from a purely
      > factual and
      >
      > historical perspective, much more offensive. He has
      > systematically
      >
      > misled his readers at almost every turn about the
      > truthfulness
      >
      > of his accounts, the accuracy of his biography, and the
      > genuineness
      >
      > of his presentation.
      >
      >
      >
      > Yet, I hear repeatedly that Eckankar has gone
      > "beyond" that.
      >
      > We are dealing with Sri Harold Klemp (keep in mind that the
      >
      > "Sri" is simply an Indian honorific like
      > "Mr." or "Sir"--but it
      >
      > sounds much more romantic when we use the Indian term
      >
      > that almost nobody understands).
      >
      >
      >
      > Well, Klemp has bought into the Eckankar enterprise and
      >
      > yet knows much more than his following does about the
      >
      > nefarious activities of his predecessors, Paul and Darwin.
      >
      >
      >
      > However, misguided Eckists need not fear, for Klemp has
      >
      > directed Eckankar into a new direction, one which has
      > paranoia
      >
      > as a cornerstone. I don't think it is coincidental that
      > the number
      >
      > of Eckists who have had "bad" astral experiences
      > has increased
      >
      > steadily since Harold Klemp published his article,
      > "Methods of the
      >
      > Black Magician," in the Winter 1983 issue of The
      > Mystic World.
      >
      > In 1987 alone I have talked with more than ten Eckists who
      > have
      >
      > reported terrifying experiences of "losing"
      > one's mind and mental
      >
      > balance; some even claim to be haunted by internal beings
      > and
      >
      > powers taking away the inner recesses of their personality.
      >
      > A close look at the following passages from Klemp's
      > article
      >
      > shows clearly where these Eckists are getting their fears:
      >
      >
      >
      > "The black magician depends upon simple, inexperienced
      >
      > people to provoke worship of the personality, for in
      > ignorance
      >
      > is his power. Signs of one in whom the Kal power is
      > stronger
      >
      > than the ECK are several, including: 1) Show him money and
      >
      > he wonders how to get it from you, 2) make peace in your
      > household
      >
      > and he will try to break it up and 3) if you say,
      > "This is Truth,"
      >
      > he tries to prove it is not so.
      >
      >
      >
      > "The potential for a fall from grace is a real danger
      > when
      >
      > the lust for power thrusts itself into the foreground. No
      > matter
      >
      > what high station anyone gets in his journey to God, he can
      >
      > end up a fallen star unless he has truly seen the SUGMAD. .
      > .
      >
      >
      >
      > "A black magician has a degree of knowledge as to how
      >
      > invisible energies split from the Audible Life Current, but
      >
      > he bends them toward darkness and destruction.
      >
      >
      >
      > "With power to invade dreams, he can bring terror
      > through
      >
      > nightmares. The dreamer quakes, wondering what has suddenly
      >
      > unbalanced the delicate scale in his affairs. Monsters
      > appear,
      >
      > forces, tear at the Astral body and strange, awful
      > phenomena
      >
      > confront him.
      >
      >
      >
      > "Fear grows and, with it, the disarming influence of
      > the
      >
      > magician steals over the victim. In the initial phase he
      > scatters
      >
      > the initiate's serenity so as to control the mind.
      > Craving raw
      >
      > power, the magician cares not a wit for Soul's freedom.
      > . .
      >
      >
      >
      > "To survive a psychic attack takes several approaches:
      >
      >
      >
      > 1) A conscious closing of the emotional door against the
      > intruder.
      >
      > Any photos, as well memorabilia, of a disruptive
      > personality must
      >
      > be put out of the house.
      >
      >
      >
      > 2) A constant chanting of HU or the initiate's personal
      > word.
      >
      >
      >
      > 3) An actual fight on the inner planes whereby the
      > trespasser
      >
      > is driven off by marital arts or some weapon at hand.
      >
      >
      >
      > 4) Getting plenty of rest each night. . .
      >
      >
      >
      > "People under psychic attack must make a decision
      > whether
      >
      > to follow the Lord of Light and sound, or the lord of
      > darkness.
      >
      > Hesitation creates a split current of energy within one.
      > I've had
      >
      > reports of people who suffered heart attacks because they
      > let
      >
      > their emotions pull in two different directions at the same
      > time.
      >
      > Forego the Worship of Moloch. The price is too dear.
      >
      >
      >
      > "I can help you combat the dark force by use of the
      > might
      >
      > Sword of the SUGMAD--but only if you listen."
      >
      >
      >
      > The Mystic World (Winter 1983), pages 1-2
      >
      >
      >
      > The danger of Klemp's warning against "black
      > magicians"
      >
      > (some former Eckists feel it is a thinly disguised
      > criticism of
      >
      > Darwin Gross) is that it allows for impressionable Eckists
      > to
      >
      > start having the very experiences he warns against.
      >
      >
      >
      > Indeed, several of the Eckists I interviewed did not have
      >
      > troubles in their meditation until Klemp's warnings of
      > the
      >
      > "black magician [who] creeps into his prey's life
      > step by step.
      >
      > Every emotional trick is used to bind the two ever more
      > closely
      >
      > together." Such mind games can only run havoc on
      > immature
      >
      > and impregnable personalities. In this way, Harold Klemp
      > has
      >
      > done a great harm to his following. Eckankar has been the
      >
      > source of tremendous mental imbalance for a growing number
      >
      > of devotees because its doctrines are not systematic,
      > psychologically
      >
      > sound, and spiritually authentic. Rather, they are the
      > outcome
      >
      > of Twitchell's schizophrenic plagiarism (he copied
      > widely varying
      >
      > and contradictory teachings), which are replete with
      > unsound
      >
      > (and unproven) meditation techniques, sophomoric advice
      > about
      >
      > "internal beings," and dangerous spiritual
      > counseling.
      >
      >
      >
      > So am I presently a fan of Harold Klemp's revisionism?
      >
      > No, I think he is actually worse than Twitchell in some
      > ways,
      >
      > since he knows how much havoc has been wrought by Paul
      >
      > and Darwin (and now him) on certain (not all) Eckists.
      >
      >
      >
      > To be sure, we are all responsible to some degree to
      >
      > what happens to us in our religious affiliations and
      > spiritual
      >
      > journeys. But, a pinto is still a pinto and the gas tank
      > can
      >
      > blow up because the car was not well engineered. Not for
      >
      > everybody, but for enough.
      >
      >
      >
      > I don't have a problem with people in Eckankar--they
      >
      > are genuinely nice and sincere for the most part. I have
      >
      > a problem with a religious enterprise which does not put
      >
      > a warning label on its many by-products: be sure to take
      >
      > everything with a grain of salt, because most of what we
      >
      > write about is:
      >
      >
      >
      > 1) plagiarized;
      >
      > 2) made-up;
      >
      > 3) convoluted, since our founder mixed anything he read
      >
      > into a cosmic soup; and 4) inaccurate at times, since our
      >
      > founder did not cite nor carefully document his sources.
      >
      >
      >
      > And by, the way, our founder also systematically lied
      >
      > about his life and his work.
      >
      >
      >
      > But even though he lied about almost everything else
      >
      > in his life, the Eckankar masters are real........
      >
      >
      >
      > Hmm
      >
      >
      >
      > P.S. This same criticism, I should add, holds to any
      >
      > religious enterprise which does not open itself up
      >
      > to wholesale investigation: Catholicism, certain sects
      >
      > of Sant Mat, etc.
      >
      >
      >
      > Eckankar is not unique; indeed, it is much better than
      >
      > many of its Indian counterparts. For instance, at least
      >
      > Eck leaders don't kill people and beat them up and
      >
      > sexually molest them; Thakar Singh, the infamous head
      >
      > of one Shabd yoga group, is much much worse indeed.
      >
      >
      >
      > But we need to be much more critical. We are, to be
      >
      > sure, more critical in buying groceries than we are
      >
      > in buying a religion.
      >
      >
      >
      > ****
      >
      >
      >
      > The Historicity of Rebazar Tarzs and the question
      >
      > of Lane's biases:In response to William, Mark, Holly,
      >
      > and others
      >
      >
      >
      > The Eckankar newsgroup has been quite lively
      >
      > recently and it is a pleasure each day or so to read
      >
      > through the various posts. Very interesting and very
      >
      > interactive.
      >
      >
      >
      > In this post, I would like to clarify my position on
      >
      > a few matters and then let's see the various responses
      >
      > that develop.
      >
      >
      >
      > 1. Concerning the historicity of the Eck Masters (in this
      > article
      >
      > I will simply limit it to Rebazar Tarzs and Sudar Singh for
      > focus),
      >
      > much of the confusion over this issue must be laid at Paul
      > Twitchell's
      >
      > doorstep. Why? Because as is now well known, Paul Twitchell
      > wrote
      >
      > his original manuscript, THE TIGER'S FANG, describing
      > his experiences
      >
      > with Kirpal Singh and Sawan Singh, not Sudar Singh and
      > Rebazar Tarzs.
      >
      > Indeed, in a personal letter to Kirpal Singh in the early
      > 1960s Paul
      > Twitchell
      >
      > asks Kirpal Singh for his permission to dedicate the book
      > to the Delhi
      > Master.
      >
      > Now in this book, he mentions Kirpal Singh's and Sawan
      > Singh's names
      >
      > profusely. (In Twitchell's extensive correspondence
      > with Kirpal Singh--
      >
      > from 1955 to 1966--he repeatedly mentions Kirpal
      > Singh's help in getting
      >
      > him inner experiences; he never--not once--mentions Rebazar
      > Tarzs
      >
      > or Sudar Singh.) It was only later after the growth of
      > Eckankar that
      > Twitchell
      >
      > began to delete the names of Kirpal Singh, Sawan Singh, and
      > others
      >
      > from his original writings. (I have appended the chapter,
      > The Cover-up,
      >
      > to illustrate this fact).
      >
      >
      >
      > Now essentially the narrative of the TIGER'S FANG
      > remains the same.
      >
      > Only the names have been changed. So a fundamental question
      > arises:
      >
      > is Twitchell talking about Kirpal Singh and Sawan Singh,
      > but trying
      >
      > to cover-up their real identities? Or, are we to believe
      > that Rebazar
      >
      > Tarzs and Sudar Singh are real entities, even though
      > Twitchell has
      >
      > never even mentioned these characters before 1964?
      >
      >
      >
      > Thus, I seriously question the historicity of Rebazar Tarzs
      > and
      >
      > Sudar Singh not on the basis of my own hunches or
      > intuitions but
      >
      > on the basis of a very extensive reading of Paul
      > Twitchell's own
      >
      > writings. He was the one who did the cover-up; not me; he
      > was
      >
      > the one that had every single mention of Kirpal Singh
      > deleted from
      >
      > LETTERS TO GAIL, from THE FLUTE OF GOD, from the original
      >
      > INTRODUCTION TO ECKANKAR, and THE TIGER'S FANG.
      >
      >
      >
      > Twitchell is the one who keeps his manuscript word by word,
      >
      > but changes only the names. He is the one who writes to
      > Kirpal
      >
      > Singh for ten years calling him "My Beloved
      > Master." He is the one
      >
      > who wants to dedicate THE TIGER'S FANG to Kirpal Singh,
      > because
      >
      > as Twitchell himself says in his own writing (read the
      > original "God
      >
      > Eaters") that Kirpal Singh, and not Rebazar Tarzs, was
      > responsible
      >
      > for his elaborate inner journey.
      >
      >
      >
      > These names, like Sudar Singh and Rebazar Tarzs, are simply
      >
      > cover-names. Not according to me, but according to
      > Twitchell
      >
      > since he was the one who changed names. Even Dr. Bluth was
      >
      > informed by Paul Twitchell on several occasions that Sudar
      > Singh
      >
      > was a cover name for Kirpal Singh. This part of the
      > historical record
      >
      > and any researcher--biased or not--can look exclusively
      > through
      >
      > Twitchell's writings and see what is happening.
      >
      >
      >
      > This now leads me to question the authenticity of Rebazar
      > Tarzs
      >
      > and Sudar Singh--not as composite cover names for previous
      > gurus
      >
      > (Twitchell did indeed following Swami Premananda, Kirpal
      > Singh,
      >
      > and L.Ron Hubbard), but on the basis of Twitchell's own
      > biographies
      >
      > of these gurus.
      >
      >
      >
      > Read Twitchell's descriptions of both Rebazar Tarzs and
      > Sudar
      >
      > Singh closely. Not only does he contradict himself at
      > various turns
      >
      > (changing not only the spelling, but the dates and
      > locations and
      >
      > functions), but he also gives them the same by-line at
      > times as
      >
      > previously known gurus--like Shiv Dayal Singh, like Jaimal
      > Singh,
      >
      > like Sawan Singh, like Kirpal Singh.
      >
      >
      >
      > Hence, on the basis of Twitchell's writings alone, we
      > realize that
      >
      > we have composite characters (just read the plagiarized
      > story of
      >
      > Sudar Singh--it is an almost exact replica of Jaimal
      > Singh's story
      >
      > of how he met Shiv Dayal Singh, the founder of Radhasoami).
      >
      >
      >
      > But Twitchell has misled a huge audience into now believing
      >
      > that Rebazar and Sudar are separate characters. When I went
      > to
      >
      > India I did investigate the whereabouts of these people; I
      > found
      >
      > nothing. But I am not saying that these people are
      > imaginary because
      >
      > of my research in India; I am saying they are made-up on
      > the basis
      >
      > of Twitchell's own writings. Read all of
      > Twitchell's writings and it
      >
      > becomes clear that things are compressed.
      >
      >
      >
      > For instance, I will be more than happy to fully
      > acknowledge
      >
      > the existence of Rebazar and Sudar if somone can give me
      > conclusive
      >
      > historical proof that these characters exist and are the
      > very same ones
      >
      > talked about by Twitchell. Indeed, it would sincerely be a
      > happy
      > occasion
      >
      > for me, because I could then add them to my extensive shabd
      > yoga
      >
      > guru tree.
      >
      >
      >
      > But to claim that the only way I can verify such people is
      > to have
      >
      > access to them in the astral plane or to believe in them
      > uncritically
      >
      > betrays the whole notion of rationality and the genuine
      > spiritual
      > enterprise
      >
      > as well. To be sure, people also believe that Jim Morrison
      > is still
      > alive
      >
      > and doing gun runs in South Africa. We need to demand more
      > of our
      >
      > spiritual mythologies; we surely demand more from our
      > medical doctors.
      >
      > Why not ask for more proof of such spiritual doctors?
      >
      >
      >
      > 2). Concerning my own biases and the like, I think we are
      > confusing
      >
      > the message with the medium. What we should want to know is
      > if the
      >
      > question of plagiarism, coverup, and deception can be
      > ascetained outside
      >
      > of any one scholar. That is, can you--as your own best
      > guide--see the
      >
      > plagiarism that I have pointed out, or the cover-up, or the
      > duplicity
      >
      > behind Twitchell's much maligned biography. If you can
      > empirically
      >
      > verify it for yourself (get the original Orion magazine
      > articles, go to
      >
      > the library and get the early editions of Twitchell's
      > books, etc.), then
      >
      > you can see that no matter what biases I or anybody else
      > may have
      >
      > the claims that I have made hold up. To be sure, we can
      > argue about
      >
      > the ultimate interpretations of such discoveries, but can
      > you see the
      >
      > plagiarism, the cover-up, the duplicity?
      >
      >
      >
      > Here's an excerpted sample of coverup:
      >
      >
      >
      > Chapter 5, THE COVER-UP
      >
      >
      >
      > Can you now see why I think "Sudar Singh" and
      > "Rebazar Tarzs"
      >
      > are cover-names???
      >
      >
      >
      > Notice how the text remains the same, but the names change.
      >
      > If Kirpal Singh and crew were responsible for the original
      > text,
      >
      > why then attribute it to two new guys who were never
      > mentioned
      >
      > before 64?????
      >
      >
      >
      > Think deeply, think critically.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Messages in this topic (4)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      > (Yahoo! ID required)
      >
      >
      > mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Sharon and All, Here s the site from The Truth-Seeker on the ECK Temples. http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/pdfViewer.asp?dest=docs/Temples%20Chart.pdf Sharon,
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 5, 2009
        Hi Sharon and All,
        Here's the site from The Truth-Seeker on the ECK Temples.
        http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/pdfViewer.asp?dest=docs/Temples%20Chart.pdf


        Sharon,
        I, too, have the book Jadoo, but I don't find it very interesting.
        It is, however, probably where Twitch got the name for his cat.
        I'll have to look at the book more to see if, or on what page, it
        mentions The Cliffhanger. Thanks for the info!

        Prometheus

        Sharon wrote:
        >
        > Etznab -
        >
        > Lane wrote the "historicity" essay. Much of the not-TMOASM material
        on the internet is from Lane's early a.r.e. posts, but that's not always clearly
        stated. You should be able to verify sources & find the original a.r.e. posts
        by using Google's advanced group search, but unfortunately I've done that
        using complete information on subject, author, date, etc. and sometimes
        the original post just doesn't turn up. I get a bit frustrated with Google's
        usenet searches sometimes. They're just not as good as the old original
        "Dejanews".
        >
        > If you find any broken links or pages at the geocities/eckcult site,
        please let me know and I'll try to fix them. I'm the current "custodian"
        of that site. Unfortunately, there are a lot of links on the internet to
        pages that used to exist years ago. I used to write to webmasters to
        ask them to update but, having fizzled out on checking & keeping my
        own links up to date, I understand why many dead links will never get
        fixed.
        >
        > By the way, you might be interested in checking out John A. Keel's
        1957 book, "Jadoo". It's the kind of book Twitch definitely would have
        read, and he probably envied Keel's genuine adventures. You might be
        able to recognize stories that Twitch may have re-written and used himself,
        since your memory is much better than mine. I believe the book is the source
        of Twitch's "cliffhanger" phrase and his supposed cat's name. The Katsupari
        Monastery is also mentioned.
        >
        > Have a good week, everyone!
        >
        > Hugs,
        >
        > Sharon
        >
        > PS - Prometheus, over the holidays I was responding to one
        of your posts but the computer "burped", I lost it, and didn't have
        time to re-write. Cayce's a.r.e. is "Association for Research & Enlightenment".
        >
        >
        >
        >
        Digest Number 1292 - There is 1 message in this issue.
        ________________________________________________________________________
        > > 1a. Re: Rebazar and Other EK Masters are Myths
        > >
        Posted by: "etznab
        > >
        > > Prometheus,
        > >
        > > Thanks for that link.
        > >
        > > I know there are some different versions
        > > of Lane's research on different pages, but
        > > not all of the pages and chapter links are
        > > up and working.
        > >
        > > In the last section on that link:
        > >
        > > The Historicity of Rebazar Tarzs and the question
        > > of Lane's biases:
        > >
        > > who is the author there? Like, the section that
        > > begins with:
        > >
        > > 1. Concerning the historicity of the Eck Masters ....
        > >
        > > is that David Lane speaking (writing) that, or is
        > > it commentary by someone else? I wasn't clear.
        > >
        > > The title at the top of the page makes me think
        > > this page was written by D.L. - and the part where
        > > he talks about his sister being a lawyer and then
        > > gives the initials.
        > >
        > > It doesn't really say on the page who is / was the
        > > author, but judging by the page address it looks
        > > like David's work.
        > >
        > > I found that part about Rebazar Tarzs interesting.
        > > And what was said about the names Kirpal Singh
        > > & Sawan Singh.
        > >
        > > I read: "Now in this book, he mentions Kirpal
        > > Singh's and Sawan Singh's names profusely."
        > >
        > > Is this pertaining to The Tiger's Fang? I'd like
        > > to ask David how he knows that. Do you think he
        > > saw the 1963 Tiger's Fang manuscript? Or, was it
        > > told to him by someone who did.
        > >
        > > It would be good to verify this. IMO.
        > >
        > > Etznab
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