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Re: The Mystic World Dec. 2008 (Q&A)

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  • Non ekster
    This is very funny and Klemp gets nailed. Nice one! Nonekster ... Hello All, I have a few comments regarding Klemp s hypocritical and ignorant responses. He s
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 29, 2008
      This is very funny and Klemp gets nailed.

      Nice one!


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >Re: The Mystic World Dec. 2008 (Q&A)

      Hello All,
      I have a few comments regarding Klemp's
      hypocritical and ignorant responses. He's
      ignoring the facts, as well as, the truth
      in order to manipulate his needy believers.
      Too bad, so sad, they've been had!

      ASK THE MASTER #2 (of 2)

      Q: "My question may be valuable information
      for all, particularly the youth--IF they have
      the ears to hear. I so wish I could tell them
      what Not to do, as I have definitely learned
      the hard way.

      Here is my question: Do we take on the karma
      of an individual with whom we are intimate,
      even IF there is Not a marriage? And IF so,
      how is this worked through by Soul?"


      ME: No! Each Soul has their own specific
      Karma. Each is responsible for their own
      choices even when acting as a group or
      as a couple!

      HK: "Most Certainly! While there May or May
      Not be a problem with VENEREAL DISEASES,
      there is SURELY the Added Complication of
      an Emotional Tie-in."

      ME: With Klemp everything becomes personal
      and, thus, this is what colors his judgment.

      HK: "Was your love Finally Rejected? Or, did
      you reject another's love?"

      ME: It would have been better if Klemp would
      have rephrased this and used "one" instead of
      "you." This is what his Vahanas and Arahatas
      are taught. It's the same for not using "but"
      and "if." Klemp never follows the advice he
      spouts to others, thus, he's a hypocrite!

      BTW- Didn't Harry reject Marge's (his first wife)
      love, as well as, his daughter's love just as Joan
      rejected her first husband!

      HK: "Every Relationship has an Echo of Sorts and
      Will Color Your Outlook, for Good or Ill, toward

      ME: Klemp is talking about living life and is merely
      stating the obvious! A rain cloud can "color" a
      person's "outlook" and this, too, can have an "echo
      of sorts"

      HK: "Every Relationship is Based on Karma. It
      May be one from the Distant Past OR Immediate
      present. ALL KARMA must be Resolved, though."

      ME: People, of course, have Karma with others
      from past lives, as well as, in this present lifetime!
      Duh! However, Not All relationships are based
      upon "distant past or immediate present" life
      Karma! There's more responsibility involved
      with making right choices than Klemp is claiming!

      HK: "This DOES NOT suggest that one is to Avoid
      ALL relationships. BUT Do Make WISE choices!"

      ME: Did Klemp make a "wise choice" when he
      married Marge, or was that Karma that couldn't
      be avoided? Did Klemp make a "wise choice"
      by treating Darwin as he has? Klemp didn't even
      mention that Darwin Gross the 972nd LEM died!
      And, thus, Klemp (the Mahanta) missed another
      opportunity to say something NICE about Darwin.
      Klemp is not only a hypocrite but is mean spirited
      too! HK holds onto grudges! Is this how a "Master"
      behaves? No way!

      HK: "After all, YOU Will Have To Live With Them
      as surely as the sun rises."

      ME: Well, it doesn't seem that ECKists "live with"
      their choices. They get divorced often and move
      from one relationship to another and to other
      ECKists until the local supply runs out!

      HK: "So Many Times I Say, Be Honest With yourself.
      Do Your Spiritual Exercises. YOU are Soul!"

      ME: Once again, Klemp isn't being "honest" with
      the followers he's speaking to let alone himself!

      HK: "The Exercises are your Direct Line to the Inner
      Master. He is the Wayshower, the one who can
      Lead you Safely through the Minefields of life."
      [end, My Caps]

      ME: No! The ECKankar Spiritual Exercises cannot
      work beyond the limits and restrictions that Klemp
      has placed upon them. How long does Soul need
      a "Wayshower?" And, is Klemp really the Wayshower?
      How does Klemp help with those "minefields." Is
      cancer one of those "minefields?" Is divorse one
      of those "minefields?" Why doesn't Klemp actually
      help and protect his chelas as he claims he does?
      It's because Klemp has No Special Powers! There
      is No Mahanta/Inner Master! There IS only GOD,
      SPIRIT, and SOUL. No middleman/mahanta needed!


      ASK THE MASTER #1 (of 2)

      Q: "I ran across a wee bit in The Golden
      Heart that I don't remember seeing before.
      It mentioned the Order of the Mahantas.
      Would you tell us more about this, please?"

      HK: "It is a loosely knit brotherhood of all
      who once served as the Mahanta, the Living
      ECK Master."

      ME: So, are all Mahantas LEMs, and are all
      LEMs, also, Mahantas? Maybe LEMs are Mahantas
      but aren't "FULL" 14th Mahantas. I wonder,
      are these FULL, 14th, Mahantas above and apart
      from the lower plane Living ECK Masters (LEMs)?
      Are the 12th and 13th Plane LEM/Mahantas part
      of this Order of Mahantas or are they excluded
      from membership? Darwin was a Mahanta/LEM,
      too, right?

      HK: "Their experiences were unique to that
      position. Yet for all of that, they do not
      hold themselves above or apart from other
      Souls, whether angel, human, animal, plant,
      or mineral."

      ME: WOW! Klemp is saying that the 14th Plane
      'FULL' Mahanta, who is third from the top in
      the EK Spiritual Hierarchy, is NOT "ABOVE"
      or "APART" from 1st Initiates, non-ECKists,
      or even a ROCK in consciousness or position!
      But, how does Soul=Soul work in a RESA Hierarchy?
      It doesn't work! Catch-22!

      BTW- I thought that angels were created without
      a soul and this is why they are jealous of mankind.

      HK: "The members of this order exist to serve
      life. They obey SUGMAD's bidding. This spiritual
      service to all living things is the reason for
      their being, and they would have it no other

      ME: Well, well! Klemp is really making himself
      look special. However, if he's providing a "service"
      then why doesn't HK ever take responsibility?
      Why does HK attach, ties that bind, his chelas
      to Mahanta dependence forever? It's Money
      and Power! Klemp ties these needy and fearful
      people to him via the EK initiations. He ties
      strings to these promises and hopes in order
      to pull them back and reverse and contradict
      what he had claimed he was giving! What ever
      happened to Spiritual Freedom and Self-Mastery
      in this lifetime? ECKists will always need the
      Mahanta... Catch-22 again!

      And, are the Promises and Hopes that HK offers
      people all that much different and or a better
      "spiritual service" than what any other preacher
      of any other religion has to offer? Don't all preachers
      think they are providing a "spiritual service" to
      God and that their followers are beneath them?
      ECKankar is built upon a similar basis that all
      religions are built upon... hierarchy, promises,
      and myth!

      Klemp is just trying to justify his lies and feel good
      about himself. He's rationalizing that his deceit is
      okay because it gives a certain group of people with
      a certain mindset hope. Plus, the Higher Initiations
      feed the ego and make most people feel superior,
      and that they are more spiritually evolved. Thus,
      Twitchell's BIG LIE of ECKankar continues as a "spiritual
      service" and mission to mankind. LOL! But, in the end,
      it's just another con and more religious mumbo jumbo
      with more promises! However, it does do harm! HK
      feeds and creates more delusional thinking and this
      delays people from finding their own TRUTH (Reality)
      in this lifetime! And, time is running out for many

      BTW- "They [the Mahantas] obey SUGMAD's bidding"
      sounds like an Old Testament version of God and
      his angels. Would Sugmad really have to do "bidding"
      to these Mahantas... wouldn't/shouldn't they "Know"
      SUGMAD's WILL? Of course!

      Klemp isn't even close to what he's claiming to
      be... except for the remark about Mahantas not
      being "above" or "apart" from animals, plants,
      and minerals (that would include bullshit too)!


      The Mystic World of ECKankar Dec. 2008

      "Problems and Their Resolutions"

      Harry starts out, once again, by
      mentioning both famous and obscure
      people from the past. First, HK mentions
      Alexander Graham Bell and that Bell,
      "wisely observed that people's focus
      is so intent upon the CLOSED DOORS
      that they often fail to see the OPEN ONES."

      Klemp must be reading his encyclopedias
      again. It's kind of interesting to see how
      he manipulates the writings of others in
      order to fit his main focus for chelas. With
      Klemp, however, the hidden agenda is always
      Mahanta dependence... forever!

      Next, Klemp talks of "Jean de La Fontaine,
      the French poet known for his fables."
      Hmmmm. Let me check out the definition
      for fable. Fable: 1. A short tale used to teach
      a moral, often with animals as characters.
      2. A story not founded on fact. 3. A legend
      or myth. 4. A lie; falsehood.

      Leave it to a liar (HK) to use another lie
      in order to manipulate his followers.

      Okay, now Klemp retells a "La Fontaine
      fable" of a philosopher visiting Greece
      who sees a guy pruning olive trees and
      is told that the pruning helps the trees to
      grow better and produce more fruit. He
      returns home and assumes that the more
      one prunes the better it is for the trees.
      Thus, with "wild abandon" the man over-
      prunes his own fruit trees.

      Klemp, now, states that the moral behind
      this fable/myth/falsehood is an "example
      of DISCRIMINATION run amok." However,
      we don't know if this is Klemp's interpretation
      and conclusion of the fable or La Fontaine's!
      Anyway, how is this "an example of discrimination
      run amok?" How does good judgment i.e.
      "discrimination" become excessive and "run
      amok?" The excessive pruning is an example
      of: poor judgment; a lack of discrimination; of
      not using good common sense; and of making
      the erroneous assumption that more is better!

      Anyhow, we'll now start to see more of The Path
      to the Trap where Klemp is leading his chelas.

      HK: "In any case, GOOD JUDGMENT DOES DIFFER."

      ME: Whoa! Wait a minute! How did the negative
      action and results of chopping off too many limbs,
      and over-pruning fruit trees due to poor judgment
      ("discrimination run amok") suddenly become a
      "different" version of "GOOD JUDGMENT?"

      HK: "People will try to RESOLVE PROBLEMS that
      SEEMS BEST to them."

      ME: True! HK distorts the truth all the time in
      order to resolve his problem of trying to sound
      like an All-Knowing Master. Just look at how
      we got from over zealous "discrimination" which
      resulted in poor judgment (wild pruning) by referring
      to it as a "different" sort of "good judgment," and
      now, it's what "seems best" for people to "resolve

      HK: "As ads for products will sometimes caution:
      `Results may vary!' They may indeed. Closed
      doors, open doors."

      ME: Actually, according to HK, A. G. Bell said,
      "Closed doors, open Ones." So, is this Klemp's
      way of making a disclaimer? Shouldn't there be
      a written disclaimer made to the public? Really!
      Why doesn't Klemp inform the public by writing
      "RESULTS MAY VARY" in the products he sells
      instead of in a Member's Only publication?

      depends upon an individuals ATTITUDE. Is it

      ME: Wow! That's great! Klemp gives such good
      advice and so many tips for resolving the problems
      that ECKists may have or experience! I guess
      he's waiting until the end of the article to spring
      the Catch-22. HK's Catch-22 is that regardless
      of whatever is said or hinted at chelas can do
      nothing and can accomplish nothing without the
      Mahanta (Klemp)!

      HK: "Recently I went to the dentist for the
      replacement of a crown."

      ME: The LEM/Mahanta has bad teeth! If Klemp
      has the highest consciousness of any previous
      Mahanta why is it that Rebazar doesn't have
      bad teeth or age like Klemp? That's another

      HK: "He did the prep work, Charity, his assistant
      would put in the temporary crown."

      ME: Well, I think good old Harry messed up!
      Now there will be ECKists calling local dentists
      in the Eden Prairie, MN. area asking if there's
      an assistant named Charity. Anyway, Klemp
      goes on to tell about Charity's positive attitude
      after getting some glue on the outside of the
      temporary crown that she was putting in and
      that she was having trouble scraping the excess
      glue off. What Klemp overlooks is the bad karma
      of her having to work very hard at getting the
      glue off, due to her negligence, and Klemp's
      bad karma of having to keep his mouth open
      for so long and not being able to talk! Plus,
      the additional time it took her to get the glue
      off probably put them further behind schedule
      and this would affect other patients' appointments.

      HK: "Charity was forever UPBEAT."

      ME: Or, maybe she screws up a lot and this is
      how she compensates for it (being upbeat) in
      order to down play it so that the patient would
      overlook the extra time it took to complete the job.

      HK: "When I was to do my part of the procedure,
      she would say, "Oh, very good!" How could one
      not keep from trying to please a person like that?
      Joan, my wife is one of these optimists too. They
      see possibilities where others see failures."

      ME: It could be, that in Klemp's case, the dental
      assistant was mocking up a positive and "upbeat"
      attitude because most people don't like going to
      the dentist and are fearful of the pain involved
      with the procedures. Thus, some patients, like
      Klemp, need to encouraged, placated, and catered
      to, more than others.

      BTW- When did Joan become an upbeat optimist?
      I still remember that 09/2003 H.I. Letter where
      Joan went "postal" toward a Third Temporary
      Postal Clerk because she didn't think she needed
      to show her I.D. before he went to look for her
      package. And, that Harry made some very nasty
      and harsh remarks himself after Joan came home
      and recounted the events to Harry. Even after
      more than a week to cool off Klemp still had his
      negative and angry remarks printed!

      HK: "IF you think about it, a SITUATION or a
      CONDITION is what it is."

      ME: How profound! What other words of wisdom
      lie ahead?

      HK: "The dawn of a morning is also what it is.
      One individual will look to the rising sun in the
      east with joy and pleasure, while his counterpart
      looks with foreboding at gathering storm clouds
      in the west."

      ME: Klemp forgot that he said, "In any case,
      good judgment does differ." Thus, one could
      both enjoy the sunrise and evaluate the foreboding
      storm clouds gathering in from the west. Why
      is it one way or the other (black or white) with
      Klemp? Life isn't all that simplistic for those of
      us living in the real world.

      HK: "It stands to reason, then, that we can be
      our own best friend or our own worst enemy."

      ME: I wonder if Klemp watches that TV show,
      "My Own Worst Enemy?" He's kind of schizo

      FEARS and PROBLEMS lies in our ATTITUDES."

      ME: Just satisfactory? Is there more? If so, what's
      the catch?

      HK: "That is what the Spiritual Exercises of ECK
      are all about. BUT to be SUCCESSFUL, they
      MUST be done with HOPE and EXPECTATION."

      ME: Okay! In other words, we have to psych ourselves,
      do a reprogram, or reaffirm these things and refresh
      our memories of how to do a S.E. and readjust our
      attitudes by becoming more "upbeat" and self-aware.
      That's rather basic over-the-counter stuff!

      HK: "To sum up, GOOD DISCRIMINATION is at
      the heart of RESOLVING a PROBLEM, which, in
      the end, is a LITTLE MORE than meeting yourself.
      It takes experiences OF THE RIGHT KIND to reach

      ME: To sum this up, one has to make good judgments
      (versus bad ones) to resolve one's problems. And, that
      all karmic experiences are "good" because Soul will,
      eventually, learn and grow more spiritually aware from

      HK: "Please remember, THAT IS WHY THE MAHANTA,
      ACHIEVE IT."

      ME: However, "RESULTS MAY VARY"... a lot!

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