Re: The Mystic World Dec. 2008 (Q&A)
- This is very funny and Klemp gets nailed.
--- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
>Re: The Mystic World Dec. 2008 (Q&A)
I have a few comments regarding Klemp's
hypocritical and ignorant responses. He's
ignoring the facts, as well as, the truth
in order to manipulate his needy believers.
Too bad, so sad, they've been had!
ASK THE MASTER #2 (of 2)
Q: "My question may be valuable information
for all, particularly the youth--IF they have
the ears to hear. I so wish I could tell them
what Not to do, as I have definitely learned
the hard way.
Here is my question: Do we take on the karma
of an individual with whom we are intimate,
even IF there is Not a marriage? And IF so,
how is this worked through by Soul?"
ME: No! Each Soul has their own specific
Karma. Each is responsible for their own
choices even when acting as a group or
as a couple!
HK: "Most Certainly! While there May or May
Not be a problem with VENEREAL DISEASES,
there is SURELY the Added Complication of
an Emotional Tie-in."
ME: With Klemp everything becomes personal
and, thus, this is what colors his judgment.
HK: "Was your love Finally Rejected? Or, did
you reject another's love?"
ME: It would have been better if Klemp would
have rephrased this and used "one" instead of
"you." This is what his Vahanas and Arahatas
are taught. It's the same for not using "but"
and "if." Klemp never follows the advice he
spouts to others, thus, he's a hypocrite!
BTW- Didn't Harry reject Marge's (his first wife)
love, as well as, his daughter's love just as Joan
rejected her first husband!
HK: "Every Relationship has an Echo of Sorts and
Will Color Your Outlook, for Good or Ill, toward
ME: Klemp is talking about living life and is merely
stating the obvious! A rain cloud can "color" a
person's "outlook" and this, too, can have an "echo
HK: "Every Relationship is Based on Karma. It
May be one from the Distant Past OR Immediate
present. ALL KARMA must be Resolved, though."
ME: People, of course, have Karma with others
from past lives, as well as, in this present lifetime!
Duh! However, Not All relationships are based
upon "distant past or immediate present" life
Karma! There's more responsibility involved
with making right choices than Klemp is claiming!
HK: "This DOES NOT suggest that one is to Avoid
ALL relationships. BUT Do Make WISE choices!"
ME: Did Klemp make a "wise choice" when he
married Marge, or was that Karma that couldn't
be avoided? Did Klemp make a "wise choice"
by treating Darwin as he has? Klemp didn't even
mention that Darwin Gross the 972nd LEM died!
And, thus, Klemp (the Mahanta) missed another
opportunity to say something NICE about Darwin.
Klemp is not only a hypocrite but is mean spirited
too! HK holds onto grudges! Is this how a "Master"
behaves? No way!
HK: "After all, YOU Will Have To Live With Them
as surely as the sun rises."
ME: Well, it doesn't seem that ECKists "live with"
their choices. They get divorced often and move
from one relationship to another and to other
ECKists until the local supply runs out!
HK: "So Many Times I Say, Be Honest With yourself.
Do Your Spiritual Exercises. YOU are Soul!"
ME: Once again, Klemp isn't being "honest" with
the followers he's speaking to let alone himself!
HK: "The Exercises are your Direct Line to the Inner
Master. He is the Wayshower, the one who can
Lead you Safely through the Minefields of life."
[end, My Caps]
ME: No! The ECKankar Spiritual Exercises cannot
work beyond the limits and restrictions that Klemp
has placed upon them. How long does Soul need
a "Wayshower?" And, is Klemp really the Wayshower?
How does Klemp help with those "minefields." Is
cancer one of those "minefields?" Is divorse one
of those "minefields?" Why doesn't Klemp actually
help and protect his chelas as he claims he does?
It's because Klemp has No Special Powers! There
is No Mahanta/Inner Master! There IS only GOD,
SPIRIT, and SOUL. No middleman/mahanta needed!
ASK THE MASTER #1 (of 2)
Q: "I ran across a wee bit in The Golden
Heart that I don't remember seeing before.
It mentioned the Order of the Mahantas.
Would you tell us more about this, please?"
HK: "It is a loosely knit brotherhood of all
who once served as the Mahanta, the Living
ME: So, are all Mahantas LEMs, and are all
LEMs, also, Mahantas? Maybe LEMs are Mahantas
but aren't "FULL" 14th Mahantas. I wonder,
are these FULL, 14th, Mahantas above and apart
from the lower plane Living ECK Masters (LEMs)?
Are the 12th and 13th Plane LEM/Mahantas part
of this Order of Mahantas or are they excluded
from membership? Darwin was a Mahanta/LEM,
HK: "Their experiences were unique to that
position. Yet for all of that, they do not
hold themselves above or apart from other
Souls, whether angel, human, animal, plant,
ME: WOW! Klemp is saying that the 14th Plane
'FULL' Mahanta, who is third from the top in
the EK Spiritual Hierarchy, is NOT "ABOVE"
or "APART" from 1st Initiates, non-ECKists,
or even a ROCK in consciousness or position!
But, how does Soul=Soul work in a RESA Hierarchy?
It doesn't work! Catch-22!
BTW- I thought that angels were created without
a soul and this is why they are jealous of mankind.
HK: "The members of this order exist to serve
life. They obey SUGMAD's bidding. This spiritual
service to all living things is the reason for
their being, and they would have it no other
ME: Well, well! Klemp is really making himself
look special. However, if he's providing a "service"
then why doesn't HK ever take responsibility?
Why does HK attach, ties that bind, his chelas
to Mahanta dependence forever? It's Money
and Power! Klemp ties these needy and fearful
people to him via the EK initiations. He ties
strings to these promises and hopes in order
to pull them back and reverse and contradict
what he had claimed he was giving! What ever
happened to Spiritual Freedom and Self-Mastery
in this lifetime? ECKists will always need the
Mahanta... Catch-22 again!
And, are the Promises and Hopes that HK offers
people all that much different and or a better
"spiritual service" than what any other preacher
of any other religion has to offer? Don't all preachers
think they are providing a "spiritual service" to
God and that their followers are beneath them?
ECKankar is built upon a similar basis that all
religions are built upon... hierarchy, promises,
Klemp is just trying to justify his lies and feel good
about himself. He's rationalizing that his deceit is
okay because it gives a certain group of people with
a certain mindset hope. Plus, the Higher Initiations
feed the ego and make most people feel superior,
and that they are more spiritually evolved. Thus,
Twitchell's BIG LIE of ECKankar continues as a "spiritual
service" and mission to mankind. LOL! But, in the end,
it's just another con and more religious mumbo jumbo
with more promises! However, it does do harm! HK
feeds and creates more delusional thinking and this
delays people from finding their own TRUTH (Reality)
in this lifetime! And, time is running out for many
BTW- "They [the Mahantas] obey SUGMAD's bidding"
sounds like an Old Testament version of God and
his angels. Would Sugmad really have to do "bidding"
to these Mahantas... wouldn't/shouldn't they "Know"
SUGMAD's WILL? Of course!
Klemp isn't even close to what he's claiming to
be... except for the remark about Mahantas not
being "above" or "apart" from animals, plants,
and minerals (that would include bullshit too)!
The Mystic World of ECKankar Dec. 2008
"Problems and Their Resolutions"
Harry starts out, once again, by
mentioning both famous and obscure
people from the past. First, HK mentions
Alexander Graham Bell and that Bell,
"wisely observed that people's focus
is so intent upon the CLOSED DOORS
that they often fail to see the OPEN ONES."
Klemp must be reading his encyclopedias
again. It's kind of interesting to see how
he manipulates the writings of others in
order to fit his main focus for chelas. With
Klemp, however, the hidden agenda is always
Mahanta dependence... forever!
Next, Klemp talks of "Jean de La Fontaine,
the French poet known for his fables."
Hmmmm. Let me check out the definition
for fable. Fable: 1. A short tale used to teach
a moral, often with animals as characters.
2. A story not founded on fact. 3. A legend
or myth. 4. A lie; falsehood.
Leave it to a liar (HK) to use another lie
in order to manipulate his followers.
Okay, now Klemp retells a "La Fontaine
fable" of a philosopher visiting Greece
who sees a guy pruning olive trees and
is told that the pruning helps the trees to
grow better and produce more fruit. He
returns home and assumes that the more
one prunes the better it is for the trees.
Thus, with "wild abandon" the man over-
prunes his own fruit trees.
Klemp, now, states that the moral behind
this fable/myth/falsehood is an "example
of DISCRIMINATION run amok." However,
we don't know if this is Klemp's interpretation
and conclusion of the fable or La Fontaine's!
Anyway, how is this "an example of discrimination
run amok?" How does good judgment i.e.
"discrimination" become excessive and "run
amok?" The excessive pruning is an example
of: poor judgment; a lack of discrimination; of
not using good common sense; and of making
the erroneous assumption that more is better!
Anyhow, we'll now start to see more of The Path
to the Trap where Klemp is leading his chelas.
HK: "In any case, GOOD JUDGMENT DOES DIFFER."
ME: Whoa! Wait a minute! How did the negative
action and results of chopping off too many limbs,
and over-pruning fruit trees due to poor judgment
("discrimination run amok") suddenly become a
"different" version of "GOOD JUDGMENT?"
HK: "People will try to RESOLVE PROBLEMS that
SEEMS BEST to them."
ME: True! HK distorts the truth all the time in
order to resolve his problem of trying to sound
like an All-Knowing Master. Just look at how
we got from over zealous "discrimination" which
resulted in poor judgment (wild pruning) by referring
to it as a "different" sort of "good judgment," and
now, it's what "seems best" for people to "resolve
HK: "As ads for products will sometimes caution:
`Results may vary!' They may indeed. Closed
doors, open doors."
ME: Actually, according to HK, A. G. Bell said,
"Closed doors, open Ones." So, is this Klemp's
way of making a disclaimer? Shouldn't there be
a written disclaimer made to the public? Really!
Why doesn't Klemp inform the public by writing
"RESULTS MAY VARY" in the products he sells
instead of in a Member's Only publication?
HK: "The RESOLUTION TO A PROBLEM also
depends upon an individuals ATTITUDE. Is it
UPBEAT or DOWNBEAT?"
ME: Wow! That's great! Klemp gives such good
advice and so many tips for resolving the problems
that ECKists may have or experience! I guess
he's waiting until the end of the article to spring
the Catch-22. HK's Catch-22 is that regardless
of whatever is said or hinted at chelas can do
nothing and can accomplish nothing without the
HK: "Recently I went to the dentist for the
replacement of a crown."
ME: The LEM/Mahanta has bad teeth! If Klemp
has the highest consciousness of any previous
Mahanta why is it that Rebazar doesn't have
bad teeth or age like Klemp? That's another
HK: "He did the prep work, Charity, his assistant
would put in the temporary crown."
ME: Well, I think good old Harry messed up!
Now there will be ECKists calling local dentists
in the Eden Prairie, MN. area asking if there's
an assistant named Charity. Anyway, Klemp
goes on to tell about Charity's positive attitude
after getting some glue on the outside of the
temporary crown that she was putting in and
that she was having trouble scraping the excess
glue off. What Klemp overlooks is the bad karma
of her having to work very hard at getting the
glue off, due to her negligence, and Klemp's
bad karma of having to keep his mouth open
for so long and not being able to talk! Plus,
the additional time it took her to get the glue
off probably put them further behind schedule
and this would affect other patients' appointments.
HK: "Charity was forever UPBEAT."
ME: Or, maybe she screws up a lot and this is
how she compensates for it (being upbeat) in
order to down play it so that the patient would
overlook the extra time it took to complete the job.
HK: "When I was to do my part of the procedure,
she would say, "Oh, very good!" How could one
not keep from trying to please a person like that?
Joan, my wife is one of these optimists too. They
see possibilities where others see failures."
ME: It could be, that in Klemp's case, the dental
assistant was mocking up a positive and "upbeat"
attitude because most people don't like going to
the dentist and are fearful of the pain involved
with the procedures. Thus, some patients, like
Klemp, need to encouraged, placated, and catered
to, more than others.
BTW- When did Joan become an upbeat optimist?
I still remember that 09/2003 H.I. Letter where
Joan went "postal" toward a Third Temporary
Postal Clerk because she didn't think she needed
to show her I.D. before he went to look for her
package. And, that Harry made some very nasty
and harsh remarks himself after Joan came home
and recounted the events to Harry. Even after
more than a week to cool off Klemp still had his
negative and angry remarks printed!
HK: "IF you think about it, a SITUATION or a
CONDITION is what it is."
ME: How profound! What other words of wisdom
HK: "The dawn of a morning is also what it is.
One individual will look to the rising sun in the
east with joy and pleasure, while his counterpart
looks with foreboding at gathering storm clouds
in the west."
ME: Klemp forgot that he said, "In any case,
good judgment does differ." Thus, one could
both enjoy the sunrise and evaluate the foreboding
storm clouds gathering in from the west. Why
is it one way or the other (black or white) with
Klemp? Life isn't all that simplistic for those of
us living in the real world.
HK: "It stands to reason, then, that we can be
our own best friend or our own worst enemy."
ME: I wonder if Klemp watches that TV show,
"My Own Worst Enemy?" He's kind of schizo
HK: "A SATISFACTORY RESOLUTION to our
FEARS and PROBLEMS lies in our ATTITUDES."
ME: Just satisfactory? Is there more? If so, what's
HK: "That is what the Spiritual Exercises of ECK
are all about. BUT to be SUCCESSFUL, they
MUST be done with HOPE and EXPECTATION."
ME: Okay! In other words, we have to psych ourselves,
do a reprogram, or reaffirm these things and refresh
our memories of how to do a S.E. and readjust our
attitudes by becoming more "upbeat" and self-aware.
That's rather basic over-the-counter stuff!
HK: "To sum up, GOOD DISCRIMINATION is at
the heart of RESOLVING a PROBLEM, which, in
the end, is a LITTLE MORE than meeting yourself.
It takes experiences OF THE RIGHT KIND to reach
a TRUE SPIRITUAL OUTLOOK."
ME: To sum this up, one has to make good judgments
(versus bad ones) to resolve one's problems. And, that
all karmic experiences are "good" because Soul will,
eventually, learn and grow more spiritually aware from
HK: "Please remember, THAT IS WHY THE MAHANTA,
THE LIVING ECK MASTER HAS COME: TO HELP YOU
ME: However, "RESULTS MAY VARY"... a lot!