ECKankar and Sant Mat
- Hello Non ekster and All,
This is why Twitchell "Westernized" Sant Mat.
Twit took out the Vegan and Chastity requirements
in order to make it palatable to the Western mindset.
This was, also, done with other Eastern Religions
introduced to the West such as TM (Transcendental
Meditation). And, with TM, the version given to the
public was different from the version that those of
the inner circle (i.e. Governors and Siddhas) experienced.
They were expected to become Vegans, and Chastity
was promoted but not quite required for house-
However, with ECKankar, the same approach of Bait
and Switch is used. At least Sant Mat is up front with
things, although, one can see where Twit got his fear
ECKankar hides many things from the public that
one doesn't uncover for several years down the road.
The initiation process and the requirements of service
and maintaining an annual membership for "spiritual"
growth are just some of them. Of course, "keeping silent"
of ECK history and of other uncovered truths are other
requirements. Anyone talking about Darwin, let alone
saying anything nice, will be placed on a Black List
that will delay/prevent their next initiation! Let's face
it, Hierarchies don't work very well. Look at the military!
There are many incompetent people that have "Rank"
over the competent ones! This fact about hierarchies
applies to ECKankar, too, and is proof that Klemp, the
Mahanta, doesn't have any Inner Communication.
When these "spiritual" frauds and mini-masters can
find people who Need and Want to believe, in the
Catch-22 of religious dogma, then it seems there
are always those who get suckered in. It's really too
bad for the real seekers of TRUTH. We were taken in
because we noticed changes in ourselves and we needed
to believe that others were more spiritually evolved
and could lead the way for us as others did with them
(or so the story goes).
However, when I first joined ECKankar it was with
the idea that I would need X-number of years on this
"Path" before I no longer needed it because it would
have given me what I needed for my own Self-Mastery
by then. I started out knowing more than most H.I.s
about proper Contemplation, Waking Dreams, Lucid
Dreaming, Golden-Tongued Wisdom and many other
things. I figured that I'd give EK maybe 10 years, but
then it grew to 20 years and then I forgot the promise
that I had made to my Self. I got lost and caught up
in the workings of the org, of religion, and initiations
and all of the busy work to keep us pre-occupied and
distracted. But, such is religion and such is ECKankar!
Non ekster wrote:
I went to one of the Sant Mat orientations, one of the several
offshoots that had a colony of sorts in Oregon as well as India.
We were told that if we chose to stay to be initiated, about a three
hour process, we would be permanently put on the one true path,
but we would have to agree to a very strict vegetarian diet, chastity,
and devotion, blah, blah. We were also warned that if we declined
this initiation that we were giving up our chance for ultimate god
realization, and so on. The only thing that was different from
eckankarp was the books and other lit were free for the taking.
I'm sure they got your money and assets eventually. Threats
still abounded, just like eckankar.
By the way, controlling the mind for hours a day is a form of
mind control for which you will have "experiences". It can be an
interesting experiment, but not sure it is anything beyond brain
plasticity or normal and natural stuff. Some of it may even be
bad for you, like doing drugs too often or in too high a dose.
Some meditation is just open ended with a soft focus in the present,
as simple as awareness of the breath and body, receptive allowing
and being, not repressive. I'm not even sure that there is such a
state where you are meant to always feel 100% good all the time.
Oprah was pushing The Secret for a while now, yet she continues
to have weight problems, as do many who I know who believe in
this or similar Consciousness schemes.
It would be nice if the solution to all our problems were so easy.
Nonekster ; )
> Hi Everyone!for many years before ekult, but I called it "fishing". <gg>
> Laughing here, I was doing "spiritual exercises" and "contemplation"
>worms. Fishing enables you to just sit outdoors relaxing without
> Sometimes I'd admit to people that actually, I was just drowning
people thinking you're just trying to escape housework. Okay, so
every so often a fish would bite, and sometimes it was an "active"
fish so I'd have to work a bit and even stand up to reel it in, but
mostly I went for catfish, which are very easy to catch. You just
cast out and leave it there, and just ignore any "bites" for a long
time, to make sure they've swallowed the hook so you won't lose them.
>that the way Easterners do the "master" thing is a bit different from
> You know, I've wondered and may have even read something somewhere,
the way Westerners do it, simply because our cultures are so
different. Maybe we translate the words they use in different way?
Like, a lot of Hindus "worship" all those strange gods and give them
offerings of various kinds. Do they really believe there are really
"gods" who are part human and part elephant or monkey or whatever, and
that their "offerings" really mean something to these "gods"? Or are
they more like not walking under ladders, or any of the many
superstitious practices Westerners do but really don't believe in?
>without feeling a deep sense of awe & gratitude for "God's" gifts and
> It's almost impossible to spend a lot of time out of doors in nature
all of creation. It's impossible to not feel "one" with the Universe,
with the rocks and trees and sky, and all the critters who pass your
way. Except maybe mosquitoes. I especially remember two water-snakes
who'd come swimming across the lake about the same time every night,
as time passed they seemed to stop and say "hi", it was a really neat
>human consciousness. If they were bigger and I was smaller and in the
> Okay, so I caught & ate a lot of fish, but I guess that's a part of
water, they'd eat *me*!! I wouldn't be nearly as good as fried
>even more ravenous than usual, making it impossible for me to enjoy
> And once, on a really muggy & humid day when the mosquitoes were
sitting on a huge rock just "being", I somehow found myself sort of
turning myself into a rock or something, hard to explain, there was
nothing I could do about those darned pesky bloodthirsty skeeters
other than just sort of ignore/accept them, and all of a sudden, they
stopped biting. There were still a million of them and they were
still landing on me, but they weren't biting anymore. It was pretty
cool!! And yes, I *did* sort of feel like I'd merged into the rock.
I do believe they have a certain level of "consciousness" beyond our
perception. Life, spirit, whatever...but I've always loved rocks & my
kids & I would always bring home lots of them from our hikes, but
after awhile indoors, they seemed to "die" in a way, so I'd return
them to the woods.
>been out, I'm actually leaning more towards perfectly natural
> Anyway, at this point, my "beliefs" have changed so much since I've
"scientific" explanations for things like "experiences", it's just
perfectly natural brain-stuff.
>for awhile, yakked with several of them, from old-timers to "newbies",
> After I left, I looked into Yogananda's Self-Realization Fellowship
and it seemed to me that they got much better "results" than eckists
did. Yogananda emphasized "God" over "guru", IMO. And their
"discourses" seemd to have more "meat" in them, and not a lot of the
irrelevant nonsense in the ekult discourses.
>Loyola" were "pure eck".
> I also thought Catholicism's "Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of
> And, I thought the same about an old Christian-centered Edgar Cayce
>away from what I'd experienced rather spontaneously before I heard of
> Ekult membership & its "spiritual exercises" actually seemed to take
it, and made the mistake of joining.
> If anything, I ended up with a severe case of spiritualconstipation, totally clogged up from all that nasty eckanstuff!!!
>rough on me because I'd often not realize it was Friday until the day
> Some of it seemed obviously silly, like the Friday fast....that was
was just about over. <gg> And since I usually didn't eat all day
anyway, fasting was silly - and no way would I give up coffee, the
elixir of life!! So I chose the "mental" fast, which I also thought
was a bit silly because weren't we supposed to keep our minds & hearts
focused on "the mahanta" every day, all day? And to "Be The Hu"?
>for a long time was Patanjali's yoga, didn't pursue it because it was
> Anyway - just some thoughts here. Oh, one thing I was interested in
"lower", maybe one of these days I'll get around to looking at it
more, but some people might be interested in a Yahoo group started
some years back about it, by a former eckist, I read it for awhile but
didn't quite have time, let me see if it's still there - yep, it's
> So, what I think is that "the truth is out there", just abouteverywhere you look, especially with the internet & its infinite
amount of information. Some of it's "safe", some you've gotta watch
>Oriental Philosophy prof some years back - for the life of me, I could
> I think what it all boils down to is an answer I got from my
*not* really "get" the difference between Theraveda and Mahayana
(don't know if I've got the right words here), and basically just
wanted a good "passing" answer to use on exams, one "path" is "instant
enlightment" and the other is working for it, I just couldn't see the
difference. His answer was *awesome*, IMO - he said that the "active"
one is to keep busy & give people something to do until you get the
>"experiences", and maybe some aren't. But, I also think you can
> I think it's quite possible that some people's brains are wired for
affect your individual "wiring", at least to a certain point. And do
those "experiences" really matter? Sure, they're fun & interesting,
and they can feel incredibly good & all, but isn't what really matters
what's in our hearts, and how we live our lives here on earth?
>like if you really want to leave earth, you haven't been here long
> I ran across an interesting little "quote" the other day - something
>from grocery shopping & errands, winding down, now I've gotta get
> Okay, gotta go, just "killing some time" here, making the transition
moving and go do the dishes & some laundry.
> Ho Ho Hugs!!