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The H.I. Letter - December 2008

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, Klemp s comment of Too bad, so sad, your dad is a warning by him, the Father, to his ECK children (i.e. followers) in order to keep them dependent
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 14, 2008
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      Hello All,
      Klemp's comment of "Too bad, so sad, your dad"
      is a warning by him, the Father, to his ECK children
      (i.e. followers) in order to keep them dependent
      upon him.

      FYI- I've decided to put this two part story together.
      Klemp had it in three parts in order to create the
      magical "Principle of the Threes."

      First, there's Klemp's mean spirited New Age
      spin of The Prodigal or Lost Son (LUKE 15: 11-32),
      and second are Klemp's demeaning comments
      and warnings to all ECKists about following "Mark's"
      behaviour who left, but then returned to ECKankar.

      ***
      The H.I. Letter December 2008 [front page article]

      HK: "Do you know the biblical story of the prodigal
      son who grew up in a wealthy family enjoying every
      comfort and advantage? But he also grew bored.
      Adventure. He also craved adventure! Foolish youth
      that he was, the son thus approached his father to
      ask for his inheritance." [like Klemp did with Darwin?]

      ME: Isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle
      black? Klemp attended a private all boys school.
      Later, he became bored with farm life and left.
      He only returned briefly after being discharged
      from the Air Force (1968). HK's parents had
      received him with open arms. Klemp stayed
      at and worked on the family farm for about a
      year, but began to look down his nose at them
      and the farm life. Later he left again and went
      to work in a nearby city. After awhile Harold
      became more and more off balance while living
      on his own and ends up following a guy to Texas
      whom he claims is an "Unknown ECK Master."
      Later HK jumps off a bridge, strips at an airport
      and gets committed to a mental institution (1970)
      and claims these were the side-effects of "God-
      Realization." Harry then meets Marge moves to
      Las Vegas and later (after Marge) he gets his foot
      in the door at the ESC. Klemp didn't even attend
      his father's funeral to be with his grieving mother
      and family in mid-October, 1971 because he thought
      he might be chosen as the LEM! Klemp's a hypocrite!
      Where was the "compassion" for HK's mother from
      this "prodigal" and "Mahanta in Training?" Klemp
      finds an excuse for everything including his resentment
      towards his father and for his ego driven desire
      to be the LEM by blind-siding Darwin. Then HK
      quotes (2nd initiate) Jesus in order to justify his
      lack of compassion and unloving actions with,
      "Let the dead bury the dead." It seems Klemp tends
      to put a twist on Jesus' words when he's looking
      for a justification, or an excuse to manipulate
      the circumstances.

      HK: "He wanted to travel, to see the world! No
      matter that his father still lived. But the father
      knew his son all too well, aware he wanted to
      be out from under his eye, to waste himself on
      partying. Reluctantly, the father agreed. The son
      set out immediately, his wallet loaded and his
      spirits high. As you could expect, he suffered
      no want of companions to help waste his inheritance.
      However, all such things do come to an inglorious
      end."


      ME: This appears to be a feeble attempt for Klemp
      to show off his "writing" skills as he gives a distorted
      and embellished view in a rewrite of this well known
      Bible story. Klemp is coming off as a spiteful old man
      who sounds jealous of this other "prodigal son!" BTW-
      Klemp was the second oldest until his brother died.
      Read on and see if you, too, notice Klemp's mean spirited
      attitude and envy come forth in his words. It, also,
      seems that Klemp rejoices in the hardships (karma?)
      that this young man has to endure.

      HK: "His money vanished. It is hardly surprising that
      his circle of friends did too. No longer could he afford
      a round of drinks for the house. Nor could he lodge
      at four-star inns. His meals went from plenty to few.
      Hunger gnawed his stomach.

      To his credit, he did not send his father a plea like the
      apocryphal note from a college student to his dad: `No
      mon(ey), no fun, your son.'

      To which his father replied: `Too bad, so sad, your dad.'"

      ME: How would Klemp know of these comments?
      But, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do and
      it is what it is... you know! BTW Klemp has one child,
      a 35 year old daughter who left home after high school
      at 18 and took off to Alaska to work in a cannery.
      Has he ever welcomed her back?

      HK: "No, the prodigal [son or daughter] had neither
      the means nor the time to send an SOS to his father.
      He was broke; he needed to eat. Luckily, he was able
      to land a job as a swineherd. His food was now that
      of pigs. From the rich man's house, where he was
      employed, came the sounds of laughter and fun. They
      were having a feast! Sadly, he looked upon the ruin
      of his own affairs. How far he had fallen. He was
      reduced to sharing the slop of pigs, and glad of it.
      Why, at home, he would enjoy better conditions as
      the lowest of his father's servants."

      ME: Of course, this Bible story (parable) by Jesus
      is used to teach a lesson and was directed toward
      those who had lost their belief (due to corrupt religions)
      or those who had, early on, turned away from his teachings.
      God, the Father, would welcome them back into the
      fold once they repented to Him (not to Jesus) and asked
      forgiveness for their sins. However, the Two-Faced
      Klemp shows he is both the jealous and vengeful God
      of the Old Testament, as well as, the kindly Father
      (a.k.a. der Heilige Vater)!

      HK: "He would return home. He would throw
      himself on the mercy of his father. That was
      the only thing to do. So, after a long and arduous
      journey, he at last set eyes upon his beloved
      home again. And coming out to welcome him
      was his father, who wept with joy and embraced
      him. Calling to his servants, his father said,
      `Prepare a banquet!' He brushed away his
      wayward son's offer to work for room and
      board. All had turned out roses."

      ME: `All had turned out roses?' I remember
      the story saying something about: slaying the
      fattened calf; my son was lost but, now, was
      found; he was once dead but is, now, alive!

      *****************************************************

      NOTE: These are the two parts I spliced together
      where Klemp talks about a chela named Mark.

      HK: "A while ago I told a story of someone I will
      call `Mark,' who was blessed with a fine mind.
      He had also RATED BIRTH into an ECK family.
      On the face of it, he enjoyed every advantage.
      And, perhaps, that was the problem. Things had
      come too easily; he never had to work for them.
      So Mark left ECKankar. And, for a time, the good
      life rolled merrily along. He was happy."

      ME: If these people rate such good karma then
      why aren't they climbing higher on the Initiation
      ladder? And, why wasn't Mark "happy" as an ECKist?
      Isn't Soul a "happy entity?" Was there too much stress
      and volunteer work for those coveted initiations and
      empty promises?

      HK: "Then the thin eggshell holding his mind and
      emotions together began to show cracks, until,
      finally breaking open all the way. His happy, well-
      ordered life fell apart. In the depths of his misery,
      YOU might expect he would have CALLED to the
      Mahanta FOR RELIEF. BUT NO, he had wandered
      too far afield from the path of ECK and had lost
      sight of it. So he continued to stay lost."

      ME: Is Klemp revealing more about his 1970th
      mental breakdown? How does Klemp "Know"
      that Mark didn't call upon the Mahanta or Sugmad?
      Klemp has to have a written report or a computer
      printout to know anything about what is going on
      and who gets an initiation!

      HK: "Mark still had it in mind that he could walk
      the TRUE spiritual path on his own. What need
      did he have for the Mahanta anyway? Things
      indeed turned sour."

      ME: Klemp is promoting lifelong dependence
      to meet his ego and financial needs.

      HK: "Now let's return to Mark, the prodigal
      who foolishly left the Mahanta's table to strike
      out on his own. Like the prodigal son in the
      parable, he desired independence. Yet he
      was too immature to recognize the enormous
      self-discipline and good judgment required to
      ensure success. He had neither."

      ME: Except, this was a Christian parable and
      they don't have a "Living Mahanta" that promises
      Self-Mastery and Spiritual Freedom in THIS
      Lifetime! Are 7th Initiates, with 35 plus years,
      too spiritually immature and still lack the discipline
      and good judgment to ensure the success of
      independence (Spiritual Freedom) via Self-Mastery?
      Aren't children supposed to grow and, eventually,
      go? And, let's remember that some parents aren't
      all that good at their job and are enablers or manipulate
      their children to keep them on the farm (as volunteers)
      to work by using fear tactics, guilt, and self-doubt!

      HK: "Therefore, his spiritual character lacked
      both strength and will, leaving him at the mercy
      of every psychic wave to come along. Mark hit
      the shoals of a nervous breakdown, Sometime
      later, while floundering in the water over his head,
      divine providence opened a way for him to call
      on the Mahanta. He has since HALFHEARTEDLY
      done so."

      ME: Klemp is a Black Magician that uses Psychic
      Waves! Did Mark experience God-Realization like
      Klemp? Is this what caused Mark's (19th?) `nervous
      breakdown?' Did Mark, also, jump off a bridge
      and aim for the shoals and cable as well? Was
      Mark `floundering in the water over his head'
      like Klemp? I'll bet Mark didn't do a striptease
      or get thrown in the looney bin like Klemp!
      How does Klemp know what is in Mark's heart
      to say that, 'he has since halfheartedly done so?'

      HK: "His foot-dragging means more shoals
      ahead, unless he stops his leeward drift and
      catches himself in time."

      ME: I thought that the Mahanta was to "catch,"
      protect and guide chelas! If not, then what purpose
      does Klemp serve? Yes, the so-called Mahanta
      is supposed to serve as well! It's a two way street...
      not like with the others' God... right!

      HK: "In the meantime, the Golden-tongued
      Wisdom is pelting him, and waking dreams
      are saturating his life. To be be sure, the cleansing
      wind of the ECK is still blowing strong; however,
      the peak of the storm seems over."

      ME: What nonsense! Klemp is the Blowhard
      with a bag full of promises just like every other
      preacher out there. He even uses the same
      Christian parables he was taught in the Lutheran
      Seminary he attended. The "Wind of Change"
      means that ECKists need to, eventually, leave
      and become a Law Unto Self!

      HK: "Yet there still remains a grave spiritual
      risk. Examine yourself time and again. Are
      you keeping up with the Spiritual Exercises
      if ECK? Are you doing them with love? Do
      you love the Mahanta with all your heart?
      Always double-check your standing with the
      Master."

      ME: `Double-check' how? In an Initiate Report?
      That's the only way Klemp even knows about
      what's going on, except, for his spies and the
      RESA police! I did all of that with the S.E. etc.
      at one time too! Klemp never held up his part
      of the bargain! Klemp never takes responsibility
      for the negative effects of life (health, etc.) upon
      his chelas. The excuse is that the negative Karma
      comes about because the chela isn't doing enough,
      and/or is doing something wrong! Catch-22 again!

      Prometheus
    • jivatmananda
      Hi Prometheus, Isn t it strange that Klemp teaches that parabol as part of his confidential writings to high initiates who are supposed to be much more
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 15, 2008
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        Hi Prometheus,

        Isn't it strange that Klemp teaches that parabol as part of his
        confidential writings to high initiates who are supposed to be much
        more evolved than Jesus? So it's the spiritual nourrishment they get
        after studying more than 20 years with Eckankar...

        Anyway, Klemp himself has much to learn from this parable. I remember
        something he wrote about a women who left Eckankar to follow another
        master and then came back later to Eckankar. Do you think Klemp
        welcomed her with open arms? Actually not. He wrote unkind comments
        and said she should be happy to be re-admitted at a low initiation
        level. I don't remember when Klemp wrote that article as part of his
        "wisdom notes", but someone may retrieve it.

        The truth is that Darth Harry is no different from the inquisitors
        who tortured and burned heretics while praying for their slavation and
        being satisfied with a job well done. The only difference is that he
        lives in a society that doesn't allow that.

        Jivat


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > Klemp's comment of "Too bad, so sad, your dad"
        > is a warning by him, the Father, to his ECK children
        > (i.e. followers) in order to keep them dependent
        > upon him.
        >
        > FYI- I've decided to put this two part story together.
        > Klemp had it in three parts in order to create the
        > magical "Principle of the Threes."
        >
        > First, there's Klemp's mean spirited New Age
        > spin of The Prodigal or Lost Son (LUKE 15: 11-32),
        > and second are Klemp's demeaning comments
        > and warnings to all ECKists about following "Mark's"
        > behaviour who left, but then returned to ECKankar.
        >
        > ***
        > The H.I. Letter December 2008 [front page article]
        >
        > HK: "Do you know the biblical story of the prodigal
        > son who grew up in a wealthy family enjoying every
        > comfort and advantage? But he also grew bored.
        > Adventure. He also craved adventure! Foolish youth
        > that he was, the son thus approached his father to
        > ask for his inheritance." [like Klemp did with Darwin?]
        >
        > ME: Isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle
        > black? Klemp attended a private all boys school.
        > Later, he became bored with farm life and left.
        > He only returned briefly after being discharged
        > from the Air Force (1968). HK's parents had
        > received him with open arms. Klemp stayed
        > at and worked on the family farm for about a
        > year, but began to look down his nose at them
        > and the farm life. Later he left again and went
        > to work in a nearby city. After awhile Harold
        > became more and more off balance while living
        > on his own and ends up following a guy to Texas
        > whom he claims is an "Unknown ECK Master."
        > Later HK jumps off a bridge, strips at an airport
        > and gets committed to a mental institution (1970)
        > and claims these were the side-effects of "God-
        > Realization." Harry then meets Marge moves to
        > Las Vegas and later (after Marge) he gets his foot
        > in the door at the ESC. Klemp didn't even attend
        > his father's funeral to be with his grieving mother
        > and family in mid-October, 1971 because he thought
        > he might be chosen as the LEM! Klemp's a hypocrite!
        > Where was the "compassion" for HK's mother from
        > this "prodigal" and "Mahanta in Training?" Klemp
        > finds an excuse for everything including his resentment
        > towards his father and for his ego driven desire
        > to be the LEM by blind-siding Darwin. Then HK
        > quotes (2nd initiate) Jesus in order to justify his
        > lack of compassion and unloving actions with,
        > "Let the dead bury the dead." It seems Klemp tends
        > to put a twist on Jesus' words when he's looking
        > for a justification, or an excuse to manipulate
        > the circumstances.
        >
        > HK: "He wanted to travel, to see the world! No
        > matter that his father still lived. But the father
        > knew his son all too well, aware he wanted to
        > be out from under his eye, to waste himself on
        > partying. Reluctantly, the father agreed. The son
        > set out immediately, his wallet loaded and his
        > spirits high. As you could expect, he suffered
        > no want of companions to help waste his inheritance.
        > However, all such things do come to an inglorious
        > end."
        >
        >
        > ME: This appears to be a feeble attempt for Klemp
        > to show off his "writing" skills as he gives a distorted
        > and embellished view in a rewrite of this well known
        > Bible story. Klemp is coming off as a spiteful old man
        > who sounds jealous of this other "prodigal son!" BTW-
        > Klemp was the second oldest until his brother died.
        > Read on and see if you, too, notice Klemp's mean spirited
        > attitude and envy come forth in his words. It, also,
        > seems that Klemp rejoices in the hardships (karma?)
        > that this young man has to endure.
        >
        > HK: "His money vanished. It is hardly surprising that
        > his circle of friends did too. No longer could he afford
        > a round of drinks for the house. Nor could he lodge
        > at four-star inns. His meals went from plenty to few.
        > Hunger gnawed his stomach.
        >
        > To his credit, he did not send his father a plea like the
        > apocryphal note from a college student to his dad: `No
        > mon(ey), no fun, your son.'
        >
        > To which his father replied: `Too bad, so sad, your dad.'"
        >
        > ME: How would Klemp know of these comments?
        > But, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do and
        > it is what it is... you know! BTW Klemp has one child,
        > a 35 year old daughter who left home after high school
        > at 18 and took off to Alaska to work in a cannery.
        > Has he ever welcomed her back?
        >
        > HK: "No, the prodigal [son or daughter] had neither
        > the means nor the time to send an SOS to his father.
        > He was broke; he needed to eat. Luckily, he was able
        > to land a job as a swineherd. His food was now that
        > of pigs. From the rich man's house, where he was
        > employed, came the sounds of laughter and fun. They
        > were having a feast! Sadly, he looked upon the ruin
        > of his own affairs. How far he had fallen. He was
        > reduced to sharing the slop of pigs, and glad of it.
        > Why, at home, he would enjoy better conditions as
        > the lowest of his father's servants."
        >
        > ME: Of course, this Bible story (parable) by Jesus
        > is used to teach a lesson and was directed toward
        > those who had lost their belief (due to corrupt religions)
        > or those who had, early on, turned away from his teachings.
        > God, the Father, would welcome them back into the
        > fold once they repented to Him (not to Jesus) and asked
        > forgiveness for their sins. However, the Two-Faced
        > Klemp shows he is both the jealous and vengeful God
        > of the Old Testament, as well as, the kindly Father
        > (a.k.a. der Heilige Vater)!
        >
        > HK: "He would return home. He would throw
        > himself on the mercy of his father. That was
        > the only thing to do. So, after a long and arduous
        > journey, he at last set eyes upon his beloved
        > home again. And coming out to welcome him
        > was his father, who wept with joy and embraced
        > him. Calling to his servants, his father said,
        > `Prepare a banquet!' He brushed away his
        > wayward son's offer to work for room and
        > board. All had turned out roses."
        >
        > ME: `All had turned out roses?' I remember
        > the story saying something about: slaying the
        > fattened calf; my son was lost but, now, was
        > found; he was once dead but is, now, alive!
        >
        > *****************************************************
        >
        > NOTE: These are the two parts I spliced together
        > where Klemp talks about a chela named Mark.
        >
        > HK: "A while ago I told a story of someone I will
        > call `Mark,' who was blessed with a fine mind.
        > He had also RATED BIRTH into an ECK family.
        > On the face of it, he enjoyed every advantage.
        > And, perhaps, that was the problem. Things had
        > come too easily; he never had to work for them.
        > So Mark left ECKankar. And, for a time, the good
        > life rolled merrily along. He was happy."
        >
        > ME: If these people rate such good karma then
        > why aren't they climbing higher on the Initiation
        > ladder? And, why wasn't Mark "happy" as an ECKist?
        > Isn't Soul a "happy entity?" Was there too much stress
        > and volunteer work for those coveted initiations and
        > empty promises?
        >
        > HK: "Then the thin eggshell holding his mind and
        > emotions together began to show cracks, until,
        > finally breaking open all the way. His happy, well-
        > ordered life fell apart. In the depths of his misery,
        > YOU might expect he would have CALLED to the
        > Mahanta FOR RELIEF. BUT NO, he had wandered
        > too far afield from the path of ECK and had lost
        > sight of it. So he continued to stay lost."
        >
        > ME: Is Klemp revealing more about his 1970th
        > mental breakdown? How does Klemp "Know"
        > that Mark didn't call upon the Mahanta or Sugmad?
        > Klemp has to have a written report or a computer
        > printout to know anything about what is going on
        > and who gets an initiation!
        >
        > HK: "Mark still had it in mind that he could walk
        > the TRUE spiritual path on his own. What need
        > did he have for the Mahanta anyway? Things
        > indeed turned sour."
        >
        > ME: Klemp is promoting lifelong dependence
        > to meet his ego and financial needs.
        >
        > HK: "Now let's return to Mark, the prodigal
        > who foolishly left the Mahanta's table to strike
        > out on his own. Like the prodigal son in the
        > parable, he desired independence. Yet he
        > was too immature to recognize the enormous
        > self-discipline and good judgment required to
        > ensure success. He had neither."
        >
        > ME: Except, this was a Christian parable and
        > they don't have a "Living Mahanta" that promises
        > Self-Mastery and Spiritual Freedom in THIS
        > Lifetime! Are 7th Initiates, with 35 plus years,
        > too spiritually immature and still lack the discipline
        > and good judgment to ensure the success of
        > independence (Spiritual Freedom) via Self-Mastery?
        > Aren't children supposed to grow and, eventually,
        > go? And, let's remember that some parents aren't
        > all that good at their job and are enablers or manipulate
        > their children to keep them on the farm (as volunteers)
        > to work by using fear tactics, guilt, and self-doubt!
        >
        > HK: "Therefore, his spiritual character lacked
        > both strength and will, leaving him at the mercy
        > of every psychic wave to come along. Mark hit
        > the shoals of a nervous breakdown, Sometime
        > later, while floundering in the water over his head,
        > divine providence opened a way for him to call
        > on the Mahanta. He has since HALFHEARTEDLY
        > done so."
        >
        > ME: Klemp is a Black Magician that uses Psychic
        > Waves! Did Mark experience God-Realization like
        > Klemp? Is this what caused Mark's (19th?) `nervous
        > breakdown?' Did Mark, also, jump off a bridge
        > and aim for the shoals and cable as well? Was
        > Mark `floundering in the water over his head'
        > like Klemp? I'll bet Mark didn't do a striptease
        > or get thrown in the looney bin like Klemp!
        > How does Klemp know what is in Mark's heart
        > to say that, 'he has since halfheartedly done so?'
        >
        > HK: "His foot-dragging means more shoals
        > ahead, unless he stops his leeward drift and
        > catches himself in time."
        >
        > ME: I thought that the Mahanta was to "catch,"
        > protect and guide chelas! If not, then what purpose
        > does Klemp serve? Yes, the so-called Mahanta
        > is supposed to serve as well! It's a two way street...
        > not like with the others' God... right!
        >
        > HK: "In the meantime, the Golden-tongued
        > Wisdom is pelting him, and waking dreams
        > are saturating his life. To be be sure, the cleansing
        > wind of the ECK is still blowing strong; however,
        > the peak of the storm seems over."
        >
        > ME: What nonsense! Klemp is the Blowhard
        > with a bag full of promises just like every other
        > preacher out there. He even uses the same
        > Christian parables he was taught in the Lutheran
        > Seminary he attended. The "Wind of Change"
        > means that ECKists need to, eventually, leave
        > and become a Law Unto Self!
        >
        > HK: "Yet there still remains a grave spiritual
        > risk. Examine yourself time and again. Are
        > you keeping up with the Spiritual Exercises
        > if ECK? Are you doing them with love? Do
        > you love the Mahanta with all your heart?
        > Always double-check your standing with the
        > Master."
        >
        > ME: `Double-check' how? In an Initiate Report?
        > That's the only way Klemp even knows about
        > what's going on, except, for his spies and the
        > RESA police! I did all of that with the S.E. etc.
        > at one time too! Klemp never held up his part
        > of the bargain! Klemp never takes responsibility
        > for the negative effects of life (health, etc.) upon
        > his chelas. The excuse is that the negative Karma
        > comes about because the chela isn't doing enough,
        > and/or is doing something wrong! Catch-22 again!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Jivatananda and All, Klemp has nasty comments to all chelas who decide to leave and turn their backs to him, especially, when they write him letters to
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 16, 2008
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          Hello Jivatananda and All,
          Klemp has nasty comments to all chelas
          who decide to leave and turn their backs
          to him, especially, when they write him
          letters to tell him of their thoughts. He
          takes this personally because of his ego
          and narcissism. It's like blind-siding him!
          This is why it's best to just let one's EK
          membership lapse.

          If HK was really who and what he's claimed
          (the all-knowing Mahanta) he would "know"
          anyway! But, since Klemp has neither lower
          or upper plane abilities and awareness he's
          blind, deaf, dumb and clueless until someone
          informs him of what's happening now!

          I did, however, see that in The Wisdom
          Notes of September, 2008 that Klemp
          once again bitches about chelas leaving
          ECKankar. This time Klemp discusses
          "Jim."

          Really! Klemp begins this article by saying
          that, "Many years ago, when I was still young
          in ECKankar" the Mahanta (PT or DG) to "catch
          my attention" sent "a fresh face," and that HK
          "met the ECK Master Rabinowitz." But, that Klemp
          got the "name" of this "ECK Master" via "mental
          telepathy."

          "MENTAL TELEPATHY!" Is Klemp lying or is he
          delusional? Because IF he DID have these abilities
          when he was "still young in ECKankar" then why
          doesn't he have them NOW as a 14th "FULL"
          (of B.S.) Mahanta! Why doesn't Klemp "KNOW"
          when his H.I.s are about to leave instead of
          after the fact! Anyone can have 20/20 hindsight!

          I think that a good litmus test, for Klemp,
          would be, What would (2nd initiate) Jesus
          do, or say?

          Here's what the tolerant, loving, and
          compassionate Mahanta (Klemp) has
          to say about "Jim" and others who have
          left ECKankar:

          "He thinks, the bar is set too high!"

          *"The Master gives him complete freedom
          to follow the dictates of his own mind."

          "... arrogance; he feels he is above such
          things as ECK."

          "It may further be a fear of the unknown,
          or of change."

          "Then again, he may be just lazy."

          "Above all, it is likely a lack of imagination."

          "His letter is a testimonial. It is not, in its
          essence, to me or to anyone other than to
          himself."

          "Even more, it is a wake-up call to those
          who think, as he once did, that they are
          in ECKankar until their translation."

          "... fear. He let the outer events control
          and rule his behavior."

          "He judged He had judged his fellow ECKists,
          and his friends, acquaintances, his wife, child,
          and even himself."

          Is Klemp still talking about "JIM" or himself?

          "Finally, he directed his fear and anger at the
          Mahanta, the Living ECK Master."

          Shame on Jim for being angry that he was
          conned for 30 years (most of which were
          under Klemp's charge)!

          BUT, there's a happy ending here, for Klemp,
          not for Jim. Jim came back to the EK fold "as
          a new chela." And Klemp states, "This time,
          he is so much wiser."

          However, if "Jim" is so much "wiser" as a new
          chela (1st initiate) why is his consciousness
          higher than his last initiation? Jim was an H.I.
          with 30 years of service until Klemp demoted
          him for making a mistake in "judgment" and
          leaving. Since Klemp pointed out JIM's temporary
          mistakes in judgement why would Klemp demote
          Jim? Was that True, Necessary, and Kind? I don't
          think so!

          Prometheus


          jivatmananda wrote:

          Hi Prometheus,

          Isn't it strange that Klemp teaches that parable as part of his
          confidential writings to high initiates who are supposed to be much
          more evolved than Jesus? So it's the spiritual nourishment they get
          after studying more than 20 years with Eckankar...

          Anyway, Klemp himself has much to learn from this parable. I remember
          something he wrote about a women who left Eckankar to follow another
          master and then came back later to Eckankar. Do you think Klemp
          welcomed her with open arms? Actually not. He wrote unkind comments
          and said she should be happy to be re-admitted at a low initiation
          level. I don't remember when Klemp wrote that article as part of his
          "wisdom notes", but someone may retrieve it.

          The truth is that Darth Harry is no different from the inquisitors
          who tortured and burned heretics while praying for their slavation and
          being satisfied with a job well done. The only difference is that he
          lives in a society that doesn't allow that.

          Jivat


          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > Klemp's comment of "Too bad, so sad, your dad"
          > is a warning by him, the Father, to his ECK children
          > (i.e. followers) in order to keep them dependent
          > upon him.
          >
          > FYI- I've decided to put this two part story together.
          > Klemp had it in three parts in order to create the
          > magical "Principle of the Threes."
          >
          > First, there's Klemp's mean spirited New Age
          > spin of The Prodigal or Lost Son (LUKE 15: 11-32),
          > and second are Klemp's demeaning comments
          > and warnings to all ECKists about following "Mark's"
          > behaviour who left, but then returned to ECKankar.
          >
          > ***
          > The H.I. Letter December 2008 [front page article]
          >
          > HK: "Do you know the biblical story of the prodigal
          > son who grew up in a wealthy family enjoying every
          > comfort and advantage? But he also grew bored.
          > Adventure. He also craved adventure! Foolish youth
          > that he was, the son thus approached his father to
          > ask for his inheritance." [like Klemp did with Darwin?]
          >
          > ME: Isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle
          > black? Klemp attended a private all boys school.
          > Later, he became bored with farm life and left.
          > He only returned briefly after being discharged
          > from the Air Force (1968). HK's parents had
          > received him with open arms. Klemp stayed
          > at and worked on the family farm for about a
          > year, but began to look down his nose at them
          > and the farm life. Later he left again and went
          > to work in a nearby city. After awhile Harold
          > became more and more off balance while living
          > on his own and ends up following a guy to Texas
          > whom he claims is an "Unknown ECK Master."
          > Later HK jumps off a bridge, strips at an airport
          > and gets committed to a mental institution (1970)
          > and claims these were the side-effects of "God-
          > Realization." Harry then meets Marge moves to
          > Las Vegas and later (after Marge) he gets his foot
          > in the door at the ESC. Klemp didn't even attend
          > his father's funeral to be with his grieving mother
          > and family in mid-October, 1971 because he thought
          > he might be chosen as the LEM! Klemp's a hypocrite!
          > Where was the "compassion" for HK's mother from
          > this "prodigal" and "Mahanta in Training?" Klemp
          > finds an excuse for everything including his resentment
          > towards his father and for his ego driven desire
          > to be the LEM by blind-siding Darwin. Then HK
          > quotes (2nd initiate) Jesus in order to justify his
          > lack of compassion and unloving actions with,
          > "Let the dead bury the dead." It seems Klemp tends
          > to put a twist on Jesus' words when he's looking
          > for a justification, or an excuse to manipulate
          > the circumstances.
          >
          > HK: "He wanted to travel, to see the world! No
          > matter that his father still lived. But the father
          > knew his son all too well, aware he wanted to
          > be out from under his eye, to waste himself on
          > partying. Reluctantly, the father agreed. The son
          > set out immediately, his wallet loaded and his
          > spirits high. As you could expect, he suffered
          > no want of companions to help waste his inheritance.
          > However, all such things do come to an inglorious
          > end."
          >
          >
          > ME: This appears to be a feeble attempt for Klemp
          > to show off his "writing" skills as he gives a distorted
          > and embellished view in a rewrite of this well known
          > Bible story. Klemp is coming off as a spiteful old man
          > who sounds jealous of this other "prodigal son!" BTW-
          > Klemp was the second oldest until his brother died.
          > Read on and see if you, too, notice Klemp's mean spirited
          > attitude and envy come forth in his words. It, also,
          > seems that Klemp rejoices in the hardships (karma?)
          > that this young man has to endure.
          >
          > HK: "His money vanished. It is hardly surprising that
          > his circle of friends did too. No longer could he afford
          > a round of drinks for the house. Nor could he lodge
          > at four-star inns. His meals went from plenty to few.
          > Hunger gnawed his stomach.
          >
          > To his credit, he did not send his father a plea like the
          > apocryphal note from a college student to his dad: `No
          > mon(ey), no fun, your son.'
          >
          > To which his father replied: `Too bad, so sad, your dad.'"
          >
          > ME: How would Klemp know of these comments?
          > But, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do and
          > it is what it is... you know! BTW Klemp has one child,
          > a 35 year old daughter who left home after high school
          > at 18 and took off to Alaska to work in a cannery.
          > Has he ever welcomed her back?
          >
          > HK: "No, the prodigal [son or daughter] had neither
          > the means nor the time to send an SOS to his father.
          > He was broke; he needed to eat. Luckily, he was able
          > to land a job as a swineherd. His food was now that
          > of pigs. From the rich man's house, where he was
          > employed, came the sounds of laughter and fun. They
          > were having a feast! Sadly, he looked upon the ruin
          > of his own affairs. How far he had fallen. He was
          > reduced to sharing the slop of pigs, and glad of it.
          > Why, at home, he would enjoy better conditions as
          > the lowest of his father's servants."
          >
          > ME: Of course, this Bible story (parable) by Jesus
          > is used to teach a lesson and was directed toward
          > those who had lost their belief (due to corrupt religions)
          > or those who had, early on, turned away from his teachings.
          > God, the Father, would welcome them back into the
          > fold once they repented to Him (not to Jesus) and asked
          > forgiveness for their sins. However, the Two-Faced
          > Klemp shows he is both the jealous and vengeful God
          > of the Old Testament, as well as, the kindly Father
          > (a.k.a. der Heilige Vater)!
          >
          > HK: "He would return home. He would throw
          > himself on the mercy of his father. That was
          > the only thing to do. So, after a long and arduous
          > journey, he at last set eyes upon his beloved
          > home again. And coming out to welcome him
          > was his father, who wept with joy and embraced
          > him. Calling to his servants, his father said,
          > `Prepare a banquet!' He brushed away his
          > wayward son's offer to work for room and
          > board. All had turned out roses."
          >
          > ME: `All had turned out roses?' I remember
          > the story saying something about: slaying the
          > fattened calf; my son was lost but, now, was
          > found; he was once dead but is, now, alive!
          >
          > *****************************************************
          >
          > NOTE: These are the two parts I spliced together
          > where Klemp talks about a chela named Mark.
          >
          > HK: "A while ago I told a story of someone I will
          > call `Mark,' who was blessed with a fine mind.
          > He had also RATED BIRTH into an ECK family.
          > On the face of it, he enjoyed every advantage.
          > And, perhaps, that was the problem. Things had
          > come too easily; he never had to work for them.
          > So Mark left ECKankar. And, for a time, the good
          > life rolled merrily along. He was happy."
          >
          > ME: If these people rate such good karma then
          > why aren't they climbing higher on the Initiation
          > ladder? And, why wasn't Mark "happy" as an ECKist?
          > Isn't Soul a "happy entity?" Was there too much stress
          > and volunteer work for those coveted initiations and
          > empty promises?
          >
          > HK: "Then the thin eggshell holding his mind and
          > emotions together began to show cracks, until,
          > finally breaking open all the way. His happy, well-
          > ordered life fell apart. In the depths of his misery,
          > YOU might expect he would have CALLED to the
          > Mahanta FOR RELIEF. BUT NO, he had wandered
          > too far afield from the path of ECK and had lost
          > sight of it. So he continued to stay lost."
          >
          > ME: Is Klemp revealing more about his 1970th
          > mental breakdown? How does Klemp "Know"
          > that Mark didn't call upon the Mahanta or Sugmad?
          > Klemp has to have a written report or a computer
          > printout to know anything about what is going on
          > and who gets an initiation!
          >
          > HK: "Mark still had it in mind that he could walk
          > the TRUE spiritual path on his own. What need
          > did he have for the Mahanta anyway? Things
          > indeed turned sour."
          >
          > ME: Klemp is promoting lifelong dependence
          > to meet his ego and financial needs.
          >
          > HK: "Now let's return to Mark, the prodigal
          > who foolishly left the Mahanta's table to strike
          > out on his own. Like the prodigal son in the
          > parable, he desired independence. Yet he
          > was too immature to recognize the enormous
          > self-discipline and good judgment required to
          > ensure success. He had neither."
          >
          > ME: Except, this was a Christian parable and
          > they don't have a "Living Mahanta" that promises
          > Self-Mastery and Spiritual Freedom in THIS
          > Lifetime! Are 7th Initiates, with 35 plus years,
          > too spiritually immature and still lack the discipline
          > and good judgment to ensure the success of
          > independence (Spiritual Freedom) via Self-Mastery?
          > Aren't children supposed to grow and, eventually,
          > go? And, let's remember that some parents aren't
          > all that good at their job and are enablers or manipulate
          > their children to keep them on the farm (as volunteers)
          > to work by using fear tactics, guilt, and self-doubt!
          >
          > HK: "Therefore, his spiritual character lacked
          > both strength and will, leaving him at the mercy
          > of every psychic wave to come along. Mark hit
          > the shoals of a nervous breakdown, Sometime
          > later, while floundering in the water over his head,
          > divine providence opened a way for him to call
          > on the Mahanta. He has since HALFHEARTEDLY
          > done so."
          >
          > ME: Klemp is a Black Magician that uses Psychic
          > Waves! Did Mark experience God-Realization like
          > Klemp? Is this what caused Mark's (19th?) `nervous
          > breakdown?' Did Mark, also, jump off a bridge
          > and aim for the shoals and cable as well? Was
          > Mark `floundering in the water over his head'
          > like Klemp? I'll bet Mark didn't do a striptease
          > or get thrown in the looney bin like Klemp!
          > How does Klemp know what is in Mark's heart
          > to say that, 'he has since halfheartedly done so?'
          >
          > HK: "His foot-dragging means more shoals
          > ahead, unless he stops his leeward drift and
          > catches himself in time."
          >
          > ME: I thought that the Mahanta was to "catch,"
          > protect and guide chelas! If not, then what purpose
          > does Klemp serve? Yes, the so-called Mahanta
          > is supposed to serve as well! It's a two way street...
          > not like with the others' God... right!
          >
          > HK: "In the meantime, the Golden-tongued
          > Wisdom is pelting him, and waking dreams
          > are saturating his life. To be be sure, the cleansing
          > wind of the ECK is still blowing strong; however,
          > the peak of the storm seems over."
          >
          > ME: What nonsense! Klemp is the Blowhard
          > with a bag full of promises just like every other
          > preacher out there. He even uses the same
          > Christian parables he was taught in the Lutheran
          > Seminary he attended. The "Wind of Change"
          > means that ECKists need to, eventually, leave
          > and become a Law Unto Self!
          >
          > HK: "Yet there still remains a grave spiritual
          > risk. Examine yourself time and again. Are
          > you keeping up with the Spiritual Exercises
          > if ECK? Are you doing them with love? Do
          > you love the Mahanta with all your heart?
          > Always double-check your standing with the
          > Master."
          >
          > ME: `Double-check' how? In an Initiate Report?
          > That's the only way Klemp even knows about
          > what's going on, except, for his spies and the
          > RESA police! I did all of that with the S.E. etc.
          > at one time too! Klemp never held up his part
          > of the bargain! Klemp never takes responsibility
          > for the negative effects of life (health, etc.) upon
          > his chelas. The excuse is that the negative Karma
          > comes about because the chela isn't doing enough,
          > and/or is doing something wrong! Catch-22 again!
          >
          > Prometheus
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, I recently saw a 1979 movie Wise Blood and the preacher in the movie reminded me of Klemp. I m thinking that Klemp was a lot like this preacher in
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 6, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello All,
            I recently saw a 1979 movie "Wise Blood"
            and the preacher in the movie reminded
            me of Klemp. I'm thinking that Klemp was
            a lot like this preacher in his earlier years
            (circa 1969). Anyway, the role is played by
            Brad Dourif (who plays the doctor in the
            HBO series "Deadwood"). I think he was in
            "Dune" as well!

            Just Google Brad Dourif or "Wise Blood" and
            you can find and view a YouTube video clip.
            See for yourself! I'll bet that many ECKists,
            and Former ECKists, can see the resemblance
            between this preacher and Klemp!

            BTW- This guy preaches that Christ was
            just a man and that all of those promises,
            etc. have no value. Instead, people should
            be worshipping a living man that can redeem
            them. Sounds like ECKankar doesn't it!

            Prometheus

            Hello Jivatananda and All,
            Klemp has nasty comments to all chelas
            who decide to leave and turn their backs
            to him, especially, when they write him
            letters to tell him of their thoughts. He
            takes this personally because of his ego
            and narcissism. It's like blind-siding him!
            This is why it's best to just let one's EK
            membership lapse.

            If HK was really who and what he's claimed
            (the all-knowing Mahanta) he would "know"
            anyway! But, since Klemp has neither lower
            or upper plane abilities and awareness he's
            blind, deaf, dumb and clueless until someone
            informs him of what's happening now!

            I did, however, see that in The Wisdom
            Notes of September, 2008 that Klemp
            once again bitches about chelas leaving
            ECKankar. This time Klemp discusses
            "Jim."

            Really! Klemp begins this article by saying
            that, "Many years ago, when I was still young
            in ECKankar" the Mahanta (PT or DG) to "catch
            my attention" sent "a fresh face," and that HK
            "met the ECK Master Rabinowitz." But, that Klemp
            got the "name" of this "ECK Master" via "mental
            telepathy."

            "MENTAL TELEPATHY!" Is Klemp lying or is he
            delusional? Because IF he DID have these abilities
            when he was "still young in ECKankar" then why
            doesn't he have them NOW as a 14th "FULL"
            (of B.S.) Mahanta! Why doesn't Klemp "KNOW"
            when his H.I.s are about to leave instead of
            after the fact! Anyone can have 20/20 hindsight!

            I think that a good litmus test, for Klemp,
            would be, What would (2nd initiate) Jesus
            do, or say?

            Here's what the tolerant, loving, and
            compassionate Mahanta (Klemp) has
            to say about "Jim" and others who have
            left ECKankar:

            "He thinks, the bar is set too high!"

            *"The Master gives him complete freedom
            to follow the dictates of his own mind."

            "... arrogance; he feels he is above such
            things as ECK."

            "It may further be a fear of the unknown,
            or of change."

            "Then again, he may be just lazy."

            "Above all, it is likely a lack of imagination."

            "His letter is a testimonial. It is not, in its
            essence, to me or to anyone other than to
            himself."

            "Even more, it is a wake-up call to those
            who think, as he once did, that they are
            in ECKankar until their translation."

            "... fear. He let the outer events control
            and rule his behavior."

            "He judged He had judged his fellow ECKists,
            and his friends, acquaintances, his wife, child,
            and even himself."

            Is Klemp still talking about "JIM" or himself?

            "Finally, he directed his fear and anger at the
            Mahanta, the Living ECK Master."

            Shame on Jim for being angry that he was
            conned for 30 years (most of which were
            under Klemp's charge)!

            BUT, there's a happy ending here, for Klemp,
            not for Jim. Jim came back to the EK fold "as
            a new chela." And Klemp states, "This time,
            he is so much wiser."

            However, if "Jim" is so much "wiser" as a new
            chela (1st initiate) why is his consciousness
            higher than his last initiation? Jim was an H.I.
            with 30 years of service until Klemp demoted
            him for making a mistake in "judgment" and
            leaving. Since Klemp pointed out JIM's temporary
            mistakes in judgement why would Klemp demote
            Jim? Was that True, Necessary, and Kind? I don't
            think so!

            Prometheus


            jivatmananda wrote:

            Hi Prometheus,

            Isn't it strange that Klemp teaches that parable as part of his
            confidential writings to high initiates who are supposed to be much
            more evolved than Jesus? So it's the spiritual nourishment they get
            after studying more than 20 years with Eckankar...

            Anyway, Klemp himself has much to learn from this parable. I remember
            something he wrote about a women who left Eckankar to follow another
            master and then came back later to Eckankar. Do you think Klemp
            welcomed her with open arms? Actually not. He wrote unkind comments
            and said she should be happy to be re-admitted at a low initiation
            level. I don't remember when Klemp wrote that article as part of his
            "wisdom notes", but someone may retrieve it.

            The truth is that Darth Harry is no different from the inquisitors
            who tortured and burned heretics while praying for their slavation and
            being satisfied with a job well done. The only difference is that he
            lives in a society that doesn't allow that.

            Jivat


            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > Klemp's comment of "Too bad, so sad, your dad"
            > is a warning by him, the Father, to his ECK children
            > (i.e. followers) in order to keep them dependent
            > upon him.
            >
            > FYI- I've decided to put this two part story together.
            > Klemp had it in three parts in order to create the
            > magical "Principle of the Threes."
            >
            > First, there's Klemp's mean spirited New Age
            > spin of The Prodigal or Lost Son (LUKE 15: 11-32),
            > and second are Klemp's demeaning comments
            > and warnings to all ECKists about following "Mark's"
            > behaviour who left, but then returned to ECKankar.

            ##########################################

            > The H.I. Letter December 2008 [front page article]
            >
            > HK: "Do you know the biblical story of the prodigal
            > son who grew up in a wealthy family enjoying every
            > comfort and advantage? But he also grew bored.
            > Adventure. He also craved adventure! Foolish youth
            > that he was, the son thus approached his father to
            > ask for his inheritance." [like Klemp did with Darwin?]
            >
            > ME: Isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle
            > black? Klemp attended a private all boys school.
            > Later, he became bored with farm life and left.
            > He only returned briefly after being discharged
            > from the Air Force (1968). HK's parents had
            > received him with open arms. Klemp stayed
            > at and worked on the family farm for about a
            > year, but began to look down his nose at them
            > and the farm life. Later he left again and went
            > to work in a nearby city. After awhile Harold
            > became more and more off balance while living
            > on his own and ends up following a guy to Texas
            > whom he claims is an "Unknown ECK Master."
            > Later HK jumps off a bridge, strips at an airport
            > and gets committed to a mental institution (1970)
            > and claims these were the side-effects of "God-
            > Realization." Harry then meets Marge moves to
            > Las Vegas and later (after Marge) he gets his foot
            > in the door at the ESC. Klemp didn't even attend
            > his father's funeral to be with his grieving mother
            > and family in mid-October, 1971 because he thought
            > he might be chosen as the LEM! Klemp's a hypocrite!
            > Where was the "compassion" for HK's mother from
            > this "prodigal" and "Mahanta in Training?" Klemp
            > finds an excuse for everything including his resentment
            > towards his father and for his ego driven desire
            > to be the LEM by blind-siding Darwin. Then HK
            > quotes (2nd initiate) Jesus in order to justify his
            > lack of compassion and unloving actions with,
            > "Let the dead bury the dead." It seems Klemp tends
            > to put a twist on Jesus' words when he's looking
            > for a justification, or an excuse to manipulate
            > the circumstances.
            >
            > HK: "He wanted to travel, to see the world! No
            > matter that his father still lived. But the father
            > knew his son all too well, aware he wanted to
            > be out from under his eye, to waste himself on
            > partying. Reluctantly, the father agreed. The son
            > set out immediately, his wallet loaded and his
            > spirits high. As you could expect, he suffered
            > no want of companions to help waste his inheritance.
            > However, all such things do come to an inglorious
            > end."
            >
            >
            > ME: This appears to be a feeble attempt by Klemp
            > to show off his "writing" skills as he gives a distorted
            > and embellished view in a rewrite of this well known
            > Bible story. Klemp is coming off as a spiteful old man
            > who sounds jealous of this other "prodigal son!" BTW-
            > Klemp was the second oldest until his brother died.
            > Read on and see if you, too, notice Klemp's mean spirited
            > attitude and envy come forth in his words. It, also,
            > seems that Klemp rejoices in the hardships (karma?)
            > that this young man has to endure.
            >
            > HK: "His money vanished. It is hardly surprising that
            > his circle of friends did too. No longer could he afford
            > a round of drinks for the house. Nor could he lodge
            > at four-star inns. His meals went from plenty to few.
            > Hunger gnawed his stomach.
            >
            > To his credit, he did not send his father a plea like the
            > apocryphal note from a college student to his dad: `No
            > mon(ey), no fun, your son.'
            >
            > To which his father replied: `Too bad, so sad, your dad.'"


            > ME: How would Klemp know of these comments?
            > But, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do and
            > it is what it is... you know! BTW Klemp has one child,
            > a 35 year old daughter who left home after high school
            > at 18 and took off to Alaska to work in a cannery.
            > Has he ever welcomed her back?
            >
            > HK: "No, the prodigal [son or daughter] had neither
            > the means nor the time to send an SOS to his father.
            > He was broke; he needed to eat. Luckily, he was able
            > to land a job as a swineherd. His food was now that
            > of pigs. From the rich man's house, where he was
            > employed, came the sounds of laughter and fun. They
            > were having a feast! Sadly, he looked upon the ruin
            > of his own affairs. How far he had fallen. He was
            > reduced to sharing the slop of pigs, and glad of it.
            > Why, at home, he would enjoy better conditions as
            > the lowest of his father's servants."
            >
            > ME: Of course, this Bible story (parable) by Jesus
            > is used to teach a lesson and was directed toward
            > those who had lost their belief (due to corrupt religions)
            > or those who had, early on, turned away from his teachings.
            > God, the Father, would welcome them back into the
            > fold once they repented to Him (not to Jesus) and asked
            > forgiveness for their sins. However, the Two-Faced
            > Klemp shows he is both the jealous and vengeful God
            > of the Old Testament, as well as, the kindly Father
            > (a.k.a. der Heilige Vater)!
            >
            > HK: "He would return home. He would throw
            > himself on the mercy of his father. That was
            > the only thing to do. So, after a long and arduous
            > journey, he at last set eyes upon his beloved
            > home again. And coming out to welcome him
            > was his father, who wept with joy and embraced
            > him. Calling to his servants, his father said,
            > `Prepare a banquet!' He brushed away his
            > wayward son's offer to work for room and
            > board. All had turned out roses."
            >
            > ME: `All had turned out roses?' I remember
            > the story saying something about: slay the
            > fattened calf; my son was lost but, now, is
            > found; he was once dead but is, now, alive!
            >
            > *****************************************************
            >
            > NOTE: These are the two parts I spliced together
            > where Klemp talks about a chela named Mark.
            >
            > HK: "A while ago I told a story of someone I will
            > call `Mark,' who was blessed with a fine mind.
            > He had also RATED BIRTH into an ECK family.
            > On the face of it, he enjoyed every advantage.
            > And, perhaps, that was the problem. Things had
            > come too easily; he never had to work for them.
            > So Mark left ECKankar. And, for a time, the good
            > life rolled merrily along. He was happy."
            >
            > ME: If these people rate such good karma then
            > why aren't they climbing higher on the Initiation
            > ladder? And, why wasn't Mark "happy" as an ECKist?
            > Isn't Soul a "happy entity?" Was there too much stress
            > and volunteer work for those coveted initiations and
            > empty promises?
            >
            > HK: "Then the thin eggshell holding his mind and
            > emotions together began to show cracks, until,
            > finally breaking open all the way. His happy, well-
            > ordered life fell apart. In the depths of his misery,
            > YOU might expect he would have CALLED to the
            > Mahanta FOR RELIEF. BUT NO, he had wandered
            > too far afield from the path of ECK and had lost
            > sight of it. So he continued to stay lost."
            >
            > ME: Is Klemp revealing more about his 1970th
            > mental breakdown? How does Klemp "Know"
            > that Mark didn't call upon the Mahanta or Sugmad?
            > Klemp has to have a written report or a computer
            > printout to know anything about what is going on
            > and who gets an initiation!
            >
            > HK: "Mark still had it in mind that he could walk
            > the TRUE spiritual path on his own. What need
            > did he have for the Mahanta anyway? Things
            > indeed turned sour."
            >
            > ME: Klemp is promoting lifelong dependence
            > to meet his ego and financial needs.
            >
            > HK: "Now let's return to Mark, the prodigal
            > who foolishly left the Mahanta's table to strike
            > out on his own. Like the prodigal son in the
            > parable, he desired independence. Yet he
            > was too immature to recognize the enormous
            > self-discipline and good judgment required to
            > ensure success. He had neither."
            >
            > ME: Except, this was a Christian parable and
            > they don't have a "Living Mahanta" that promises
            > Self-Mastery and Spiritual Freedom in THIS
            > Lifetime! Are 7th Initiates, with 35 plus years,
            > too spiritually immature and still lack the discipline
            > and good judgment to ensure the success of
            > independence (Spiritual Freedom) via Self-Mastery?
            > Aren't children supposed to grow and, eventually,
            > go? And, let's remember that some parents aren't
            > all that good at their job and are enablers or manipulate
            > their children to keep them on the farm (as volunteers)
            > to work by using fear tactics, guilt, and self-doubt!
            >
            > HK: "Therefore, his spiritual character lacked
            > both strength and will, leaving him at the mercy
            > of every psychic wave to come along. Mark hit
            > the shoals of a nervous breakdown, Sometime
            > later, while floundering in the water over his head,
            > divine providence opened a way for him to call
            > on the Mahanta. He has since HALFHEARTEDLY
            > done so."
            >
            > ME: Klemp is a Black Magician that uses Psychic
            > Waves! Did Mark experience God-Realization like
            > Klemp? Is this what caused Mark's (19th?) `nervous
            > breakdown?' Did Mark, also, jump off a bridge
            > and aim for the shoals and cable as well? Was
            > Mark `floundering in the water over his head'
            > like Klemp? I'll bet Mark didn't do a striptease
            > or get thrown in the looney bin like Klemp!
            > How does Klemp know what is in Mark's heart
            > to say that, 'he has since halfheartedly done so?'
            >
            > HK: "His foot-dragging means more shoals
            > ahead, unless he stops his leeward drift and
            > catches himself in time."
            >
            > ME: I thought that the Mahanta was to "catch,"
            > protect and guide chelas! If not, then what purpose
            > does Klemp serve? Yes, the so-called Mahanta
            > is supposed to serve as well! It's a two way street...
            > not like with the others' God... right!
            >
            > HK: "In the meantime, the Golden-tongued
            > Wisdom is pelting him, and waking dreams
            > are saturating his life. To be be sure, the cleansing
            > wind of the ECK is still blowing strong; however,
            > the peak of the storm seems over."
            >
            > ME: What nonsense! Klemp is the Blowhard
            > with a bag full of promises just like every other
            > preacher out there. He even uses the same
            > Christian parables he was taught in the Lutheran
            > Seminary he attended. The "Wind of Change"
            > means that ECKists need to, eventually, leave
            > and become a Law Unto Self!
            >
            > HK: "Yet there still remains a grave spiritual
            > risk. Examine yourself time and again. Are
            > you keeping up with the Spiritual Exercises
            > if ECK? Are you doing them with love? Do
            > you love the Mahanta with all your heart?
            > Always double-check your standing with the
            > Master."
            >
            > ME: `Double-check' how? In an Initiate Report?
            > That's the only way Klemp even knows about
            > what's going on, except, for his spies and the
            > RESA police! I did all of that with the S.E. etc.
            > at one time too! Klemp never held up his part
            > of the bargain! Klemp never takes responsibility
            > for the negative effects of life (health, etc.) upon
            > his chelas. The excuse is that the negative Karma
            > comes about because the chela isn't doing enough,
            > and/or is doing something wrong! Catch-22 again!
            >
            > Prometheus
          • prometheus_973
            HK: Even more, it is a wake-up call to those who think, as he once did, that they are in ECKankar until their translation. More Excerpts From [THE WISDOM
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 7, 2009
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              HK: "Even more, it is a wake-up call to
              those who think, as he once did, that they
              are in ECKankar until their translation."

              More Excerpts From [THE WISDOM NOTES 09/2008]:

              HK: "'Jim' sent a compelling letter to me.
              How good it would be for you to read it
              over my shoulder. HOWEVER, his privacy
              is paramount. So I will refer INDIRECTLY
              to his EXPERIENCES, to allow him COMPLETE
              FREEDOM. His letter is a TESTIMONIAL.
              It is NOT, in its ESSENCE, to ME or to ANYONE
              other than to HIMSELF."

              ME: What, then, is the point in writing to Klemp,
              or for Klemp responding, negatively, in a Wisdom
              Note! Couldn't there have been a Positive approach
              to "Jim's" dilemma and "experiences" versus these
              mean spirited, "INDIRECT," and vindictive comments
              of Klemp's!

              HK: "He thinks, the bar is set too high!"

              ME: At what Initiation does one become an
              ECK Master? It's the 12th! Will "jim" become
              a 12th and reach Spiritual Freedom in this
              Lifetime? No! BTW-How many 7th Initiates
              have been 7ths for 20 years or more? 50 to
              100 or so! Thus, the "bar" is set too high!

              **********************************************
              HK: "The Master gives him complete freedom
              to follow the dictates of his own mind."
              **********************************************
              ME: If this was true then why does Klemp
              denounce "Jim" for seeking "freedom" by
              following "the dictates of his own mind?"
              Klemp's two-faced... like the KAL!


              HK: "... arrogance; he feels he is above such
              things as ECK."

              HK: "It may further be a fear of the unknown,
              or of change."

              HK: "Then again, he may be just lazy."

              HK: "Above all, it is likely a lack of imagination."

              HK: "His letter is a testimonial. It is not, in
              its essence, to me or to anyone other than
              to himself."


              ******************************************
              HK: "Even more, it is a wake-up call to
              those who think, as he once did, that they
              are in ECKankar until their translation."
              ******************************************
              ME: Aren't ECKists in ECKankar until their
              translation? When did this change? Klemp
              is tossing a biscuit or a bone to his chelas.
              He's giving them, INDIRECTLY, some "HOPE!"


              HK: "... fear. He let the outer events control
              and rule his behavior."

              HK: "He judged He had judged his fellow
              ECKists, and his friends, acquaintances, his
              wife, child, and even himself."

              ME: Is Klemp still talking about "JIM" or himself?

              HK: "Finally, he directed his fear and anger at the
              Mahanta, the Living ECK Master."

              Shame on Jim for being angry that he was
              conned for 30 years (most of which were
              under Klemp's charge)!

              BUT, there's a happy ending here, for Klemp,
              not for Jim. Jim came back to the EK fold "as
              a new chela." And Klemp states, "This time,
              he is so much wiser."

              However, if "Jim" is so much "wiser" as a new
              chela (1st initiate) why is his consciousness
              higher than his last initiation? Jim was an H.I.
              with 30 years of service until Klemp demoted
              him for making a mistake in "judgment" and
              leaving. Since Klemp pointed out JIM's temporary
              mistakes in judgement why would Klemp demote
              Jim? Was that True, Necessary, and Kind? I don't
              think so!

              Prometheus wrote:
              I recently saw a 1979 movie "Wise Blood"
              and the preacher in the movie reminded
              me of Klemp. I'm thinking that Klemp was
              a lot like this preacher in his earlier years
              (circa 1969). Anyway, the role is played by
              Brad Dourif (who plays the doctor in the
              HBO series "Deadwood"). I think he was in
              "Dune" as well!

              Just Google Brad Dourif or "Wise Blood" and
              you can find and view a YouTube video clip.
              See for yourself! I'll bet that many ECKists,
              and Former ECKists, can see the resemblance
              between this preacher and Klemp!

              BTW- This guy preaches that Christ was
              just a man and that all of those promises,
              etc. have no value. Instead, people should
              be worshipping a living man that can redeem
              them. Sounds like ECKankar doesn't it!

              Prometheus

              ############################################
              Next are comments about Klemp's
              DEC. 2008 H.I. Letter FRONT PAGE ARTICLE
              concerning the BIBLE Story of The PRODIGAL SON.

              Hello Jivatananda and All,
              Klemp has nasty comments to all chelas
              who decide to leave and turn their backs
              to him, especially, when they write him
              letters to tell him of their thoughts. He
              takes this personally because of his ego
              and narcissism. It's like blind-siding him!
              This is why it's best to just let one's EK
              membership lapse.

              If HK was really who and what he's claimed
              (the all-knowing Mahanta) he would "know"
              anyway! But, since Klemp has neither lower
              or upper plane abilities and awareness he's
              blind, deaf, dumb and clueless until someone
              informs him of what's happening now!

              I did, however, see that in The Wisdom
              Notes of September, 2008 that Klemp
              once again bitches about chelas leaving
              ECKankar. This time Klemp discusses
              "Jim."

              Really! Klemp begins this article by saying
              that, "Many years ago, when I was still young
              in ECKankar" the Mahanta (PT or DG) to "catch
              my attention" sent "a fresh face," and that HK
              "met the ECK Master Rabinowitz." But, that Klemp
              got the "name" of this "ECK Master" via "mental
              telepathy."

              "MENTAL TELEPATHY!" Is Klemp lying or is he
              delusional? Because IF he DID have these abilities
              when he was "still young in ECKankar" then why
              doesn't he have them NOW as a 14th "FULL"
              (of B.S.) Mahanta! Why doesn't Klemp "KNOW"
              when his H.I.s are about to leave instead of
              after the fact! Anyone can have 20/20 hindsight!

              I think that a good litmus test, for Klemp,
              would be, What would (2nd initiate) Jesus
              do, or say?


              Here's what the tolerant, loving, and
              compassionate Mahanta (Klemp) has
              to say about "Jim" and others who have
              left ECKankar.


              Prometheus

              jivatmananda wrote:

              Hi Prometheus,

              Isn't it strange that Klemp teaches that parable as part of his
              confidential writings to high initiates who are supposed to be much
              more evolved than Jesus? So it's the spiritual nourishment they get
              after studying more than 20 years with Eckankar...

              Anyway, Klemp himself has much to learn from this parable. I remember
              something he wrote about a women who left Eckankar to follow another
              master and then came back later to Eckankar. Do you think Klemp
              welcomed her with open arms? Actually not. He wrote unkind comments
              and said she should be happy to be re-admitted at a low initiation
              level. I don't remember when Klemp wrote that article as part of his
              "wisdom notes", but someone may retrieve it.

              The truth is that Darth Harry is no different from the inquisitors
              who tortured and burned heretics while praying for their slavation and
              being satisfied with a job well done. The only difference is that he
              lives in a society that doesn't allow that.

              Jivat


              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > Klemp's comment of "Too bad, so sad, your dad"
              > is a warning by him, the Father, to his ECK children
              > (i.e. followers) in order to keep them dependent
              > upon him.
              >
              > FYI- I've decided to put this two part story together.
              > Klemp had it in three parts in order to create the
              > magical "Principle of the Threes."
              >
              > First, there's Klemp's mean spirited New Age
              > spin of The Prodigal or Lost Son (LUKE 15: 11-32),
              > and second are Klemp's demeaning comments
              > and warnings to all ECKists about following "Mark's"
              > behaviour who left, but then returned to ECKankar.

              ##########################################

              > The H.I. Letter December 2008 [front page article]
              >
              > HK: "Do you know the biblical story of the PRODIGAL
              > SON who grew up in a wealthy family enjoying every
              > comfort and advantage? But he also grew bored.
              > Adventure. He also craved adventure! Foolish youth
              > that he was, the son thus approached his father to
              > ask for his inheritance." [like Klemp did with Darwin?]
              >
              > ME: Isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle
              > black? Klemp attended a private all boys school.
              > Later, he became bored with farm life and left.
              > He only returned briefly after being discharged
              > from the Air Force (1968). HK's parents had
              > received him with open arms. Klemp stayed
              > at and worked on the family farm for about a
              > year, but began to look down his nose at them
              > and the farm life. Later he left again and went
              > to work in a nearby city. After awhile Harold
              > became more and more off balance while living
              > on his own and ends up following a guy to Texas
              > whom he claims is an "Unknown ECK Master."
              > Later HK jumps off a bridge, strips at an airport
              > and gets committed to a mental institution (1970)
              > and claims these were the side-effects of "God-
              > Realization." Harry then meets Marge moves to
              > Las Vegas and later (after Marge) he gets his foot
              > in the door at the ESC. Klemp didn't even attend
              > his father's funeral to be with his grieving mother
              > and family in mid-October, 1971 because he thought
              > he might be chosen as the LEM! Klemp's a hypocrite!
              > Where was the "compassion" for HK's mother from
              > this "prodigal" and "Mahanta in Training?" Klemp
              > finds an excuse for everything including his resentment
              > towards his father and for his ego driven desire
              > to be the LEM by blind-siding Darwin. Then HK
              > quotes (2nd initiate) Jesus in order to justify his
              > lack of compassion and unloving actions with,
              > "Let the dead bury the dead." It seems Klemp tends
              > to put a twist on Jesus' words when he's looking
              > for a justification, or an excuse to manipulate
              > the circumstances.
              >
              > HK: "He wanted to travel, to see the world! No
              > matter that his father still lived. But the father
              > knew his son all too well, aware he wanted to
              > be out from under his eye, to waste himself on
              > partying. Reluctantly, the father agreed. The son
              > set out immediately, his wallet loaded and his
              > spirits high. As you could expect, he suffered
              > no want of companions to help waste his inheritance.
              > However, all such things do come to an inglorious
              > end."
              >
              >
              > ME: This appears to be a feeble attempt by Klemp
              > to show off his "writing" skills as he gives a distorted
              > and embellished view in a rewrite of this well known
              > Bible story. Klemp is coming off as a spiteful old man
              > who sounds jealous of this other "prodigal son!" BTW-
              > Klemp was the second oldest until his brother died.
              > Read on and see if you, too, notice Klemp's mean spirited
              > attitude and envy come forth in his words. It, also,
              > seems that Klemp rejoices in the hardships (karma?)
              > that this young man has to endure.
              >
              > HK: "His money vanished. It is hardly surprising that
              > his circle of friends did too. No longer could he afford
              > a round of drinks for the house. Nor could he lodge
              > at four-star inns. His meals went from plenty to few.
              > Hunger gnawed his stomach.
              >
              > To his credit, he did not send his father a plea like the
              > apocryphal note from a college student to his dad: `No
              > mon(ey), no fun, your son.'
              >
              > To which his father replied: `Too bad, so sad, your dad.'"


              > ME: How would Klemp know of these comments?
              > But, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do and
              > it is what it is... you know! BTW Klemp has one child,
              > a 35 year old daughter who left home after high school
              > at 18 and took off to Alaska to work in a cannery.
              > Has he ever welcomed her back?
              >
              > HK: "No, the prodigal [son or daughter] had neither
              > the means nor the time to send an SOS to his father.
              > He was broke; he needed to eat. Luckily, he was able
              > to land a job as a swineherd. His food was now that
              > of pigs. From the rich man's house, where he was
              > employed, came the sounds of laughter and fun. They
              > were having a feast! Sadly, he looked upon the ruin
              > of his own affairs. How far he had fallen. He was
              > reduced to sharing the slop of pigs, and glad of it.
              > Why, at home, he would enjoy better conditions as
              > the lowest of his father's servants."
              >
              > ME: Of course, this Bible story (parable) by Jesus
              > is used to teach a lesson and was directed toward
              > those who had lost their belief (due to corrupt religions)
              > or those who had, early on, turned away from his teachings.
              > God, the Father, would welcome them back into the
              > fold once they repented to Him (not to Jesus) and asked
              > forgiveness for their sins. However, the Two-Faced
              > Klemp shows he is both the jealous and vengeful God
              > of the Old Testament, as well as, the kindly Father
              > (a.k.a. der Heilige Vater)!
              >
              > HK: "He would return home. He would throw
              > himself on the mercy of his father. That was
              > the only thing to do. So, after a long and arduous
              > journey, he at last set eyes upon his beloved
              > home again. And coming out to welcome him
              > was his father, who wept with joy and embraced
              > him. Calling to his servants, his father said,
              > `Prepare a banquet!' He brushed away his
              > wayward son's offer to work for room and
              > board. All had turned out roses."
              >
              > ME: `All had turned out roses?' I remember
              > the story saying something about: slay the
              > fattened calf; my son was lost but, now, is
              > found; he was once dead but is, now, alive!
              >
              > *****************************************************
              >
              > NOTE: These are the two parts I spliced together
              > where Klemp talks about a chela named Mark.
              >
              > HK: "A while ago I told a story of someone I will
              > call `Mark,' who was blessed with a fine mind.
              > He had also RATED BIRTH into an ECK family.
              > On the face of it, he enjoyed every advantage.
              > And, perhaps, that was the problem. Things had
              > come too easily; he never had to work for them.
              > So Mark left ECKankar. And, for a time, the good
              > life rolled merrily along. He was happy."
              >
              > ME: If these people rate such good karma then
              > why aren't they climbing higher on the Initiation
              > ladder? And, why wasn't Mark "happy" as an ECKist?
              > Isn't Soul a "happy entity?" Was there too much stress
              > and volunteer work for those coveted initiations and
              > empty promises?
              >
              > HK: "Then the thin eggshell holding his mind and
              > emotions together began to show cracks, until,
              > finally breaking open all the way. His happy, well-
              > ordered life fell apart. In the depths of his misery,
              > YOU might expect he would have CALLED to the
              > Mahanta FOR RELIEF. BUT NO, he had wandered
              > too far afield from the path of ECK and had lost
              > sight of it. So he continued to stay lost."
              >
              > ME: Is Klemp revealing more about his 1970th
              > mental breakdown? How does Klemp "Know"
              > that Mark didn't call upon the Mahanta or Sugmad?
              > Klemp has to have a written report or a computer
              > printout to know anything about what is going on
              > and who gets an initiation!
              >
              > HK: "Mark still had it in mind that he could walk
              > the TRUE spiritual path on his own. What need
              > did he have for the Mahanta anyway? Things
              > indeed turned sour."
              >
              > ME: Klemp is promoting lifelong dependence
              > to meet his ego and financial needs.
              >
              > HK: "Now let's return to Mark, the prodigal
              > who foolishly left the Mahanta's table to strike
              > out on his own. Like the prodigal son in the
              > parable, he desired independence. Yet he
              > was too immature to recognize the enormous
              > self-discipline and good judgment required to
              > ensure success. He had neither."
              >
              > ME: Except, this was a Christian parable and
              > they don't have a "Living Mahanta" that promises
              > Self-Mastery and Spiritual Freedom in THIS
              > Lifetime! Are 7th Initiates, with 35 plus years,
              > too spiritually immature and still lack the discipline
              > and good judgment to ensure the success of
              > independence (Spiritual Freedom) via Self-Mastery?
              > Aren't children supposed to grow and, eventually,
              > go? And, let's remember that some parents aren't
              > all that good at their job and are enablers or manipulate
              > their children to keep them on the farm (as volunteers)
              > to work by using fear tactics, guilt, and self-doubt!
              >
              > HK: "Therefore, his spiritual character lacked
              > both strength and will, leaving him at the mercy
              > of every psychic wave to come along. Mark hit
              > the shoals of a nervous breakdown, Sometime
              > later, while floundering in the water over his head,
              > divine providence opened a way for him to call
              > on the Mahanta. He has since HALFHEARTEDLY
              > done so."
              >
              > ME: Klemp is a Black Magician that uses Psychic
              > Waves! Did Mark experience God-Realization like
              > Klemp? Is this what caused Mark's (19th?) `nervous
              > breakdown?' Did Mark, also, jump off a bridge
              > and aim for the shoals and cable as well? Was
              > Mark `floundering in the water over his head'
              > like Klemp? I'll bet Mark didn't do a striptease
              > or get thrown in the looney bin like Klemp!
              > How does Klemp know what is in Mark's heart
              > to say that, 'he has since halfheartedly done so?'
              >
              > HK: "His foot-dragging means more shoals
              > ahead, unless he stops his leeward drift and
              > catches himself in time."
              >
              > ME: I thought that the Mahanta was to "catch,"
              > protect and guide chelas! If not, then what purpose
              > does Klemp serve? Yes, the so-called Mahanta
              > is supposed to serve as well! It's a two way street...
              > not like with the others' God... right!
              >
              > HK: "In the meantime, the Golden-tongued
              > Wisdom is pelting him, and waking dreams
              > are saturating his life. To be be sure, the cleansing
              > wind of the ECK is still blowing strong; however,
              > the peak of the storm seems over."
              >
              > ME: What nonsense! Klemp is the Blowhard
              > with a bag full of promises just like every other
              > preacher out there. He even uses the same
              > Christian parables he was taught in the Lutheran
              > Seminary he attended. The "Wind of Change"
              > means that ECKists need to, eventually, leave
              > and become a Law Unto Self!
              >
              > HK: "Yet there still remains a grave spiritual
              > risk. Examine yourself time and again. Are
              > you keeping up with the Spiritual Exercises
              > of ECK? Are you doing them with love? Do
              > you love the Mahanta with all your heart?
              > Always double-check your standing with the
              > Master."
              >
              > ME: `Double-check' how? In an Initiate Report?
              > That's the only way Klemp even knows about
              > what's going on, except, for his spies and the
              > RESA police! I did all of that with the S.E. etc.
              > at one time too! Klemp never held up his part
              > of the bargain! Klemp never takes responsibility
              > for the negative effects of life (health, etc.) upon
              > his chelas. The excuse is that the negative Karma
              > comes about because the chela isn't doing enough,
              > and/or is doing something wrong! Catch-22 again!
              >
              > Prometheus
            • mishmisha9
              Hi, Prometheus and All! What I find fascinating about HK is his consistency to be mean and unloving to his followers. HK never seems to see the light in
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 7, 2009
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                Hi, Prometheus and All!

                What I find fascinating about HK is his consistency to
                be mean and unloving to his followers. HK never seems
                to see the light in regards to his nasty behavior toward
                others, especially those who turn away from "his" teachings!

                Just look at the descriptions he ascribes to this poor
                lost chela Jim who had devoted so many years of his
                life to eckankar, left briefly and when he returned HK
                demoted him to the bottom of his fold--no forgiveness
                or understanding from HK, just cruel critical comments like
                "arrogance", "fear", "lazy" and "a lack of imagination" . . .
                Why can't HK see that all of these nasty words are really
                what he is reflecting out into the world and onto his
                chelas! The arrogance is HK's; the fear is HK's; the
                laziness is HK's and so is the lack of imagination. HK
                has wasted his life really and the lives of those who follow
                his delusional path!!

                HK: "... arrogance; he feels he is above such
                things as ECK."

                HK: "It may further be a fear of the unknown,
                or of change."

                HK: "Then again, he may be just lazy."

                HK: "Above all, it is likely a lack of imagination."

                Too bad; so sad!! HK is the one who is sorely in need of
                a reality check!!

                Mish


                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > HK: "Even more, it is a wake-up call to
                > those who think, as he once did, that they
                > are in ECKankar until their translation."
                >
                > More Excerpts From [THE WISDOM NOTES 09/2008]:
                >
                > HK: "'Jim' sent a compelling letter to me.
                > How good it would be for you to read it
                > over my shoulder. HOWEVER, his privacy
                > is paramount. So I will refer INDIRECTLY
                > to his EXPERIENCES, to allow him COMPLETE
                > FREEDOM. His letter is a TESTIMONIAL.
                > It is NOT, in its ESSENCE, to ME or to ANYONE
                > other than to HIMSELF."
                >
                > ME: What, then, is the point in writing to Klemp,
                > or for Klemp responding, negatively, in a Wisdom
                > Note! Couldn't there have been a Positive approach
                > to "Jim's" dilemma and "experiences" versus these
                > mean spirited, "INDIRECT," and vindictive comments
                > of Klemp's!
                >
                > HK: "He thinks, the bar is set too high!"
                >
                > ME: At what Initiation does one become an
                > ECK Master? It's the 12th! Will "jim" become
                > a 12th and reach Spiritual Freedom in this
                > Lifetime? No! BTW-How many 7th Initiates
                > have been 7ths for 20 years or more? 50 to
                > 100 or so! Thus, the "bar" is set too high!
                >
                > **********************************************
                > HK: "The Master gives him complete freedom
                > to follow the dictates of his own mind."
                > **********************************************
                > ME: If this was true then why does Klemp
                > denounce "Jim" for seeking "freedom" by
                > following "the dictates of his own mind?"
                > Klemp's two-faced... like the KAL!
                >
                >
                > HK: "... arrogance; he feels he is above such
                > things as ECK."
                >
                > HK: "It may further be a fear of the unknown,
                > or of change."
                >
                > HK: "Then again, he may be just lazy."
                >
                > HK: "Above all, it is likely a lack of imagination."
                >
                > HK: "His letter is a testimonial. It is not, in
                > its essence, to me or to anyone other than
                > to himself."
                >
                >
                > ******************************************
                > HK: "Even more, it is a wake-up call to
                > those who think, as he once did, that they
                > are in ECKankar until their translation."
                > ******************************************
                > ME: Aren't ECKists in ECKankar until their
                > translation? When did this change? Klemp
                > is tossing a biscuit or a bone to his chelas.
                > He's giving them, INDIRECTLY, some "HOPE!"
                >
                >
                > HK: "... fear. He let the outer events control
                > and rule his behavior."
                >
                > HK: "He judged He had judged his fellow
                > ECKists, and his friends, acquaintances, his
                > wife, child, and even himself."
                >
                > ME: Is Klemp still talking about "JIM" or himself?
                >
                > HK: "Finally, he directed his fear and anger at the
                > Mahanta, the Living ECK Master."
                >
                > Shame on Jim for being angry that he was
                > conned for 30 years (most of which were
                > under Klemp's charge)!
                >
                > BUT, there's a happy ending here, for Klemp,
                > not for Jim. Jim came back to the EK fold "as
                > a new chela." And Klemp states, "This time,
                > he is so much wiser."
                >
                > However, if "Jim" is so much "wiser" as a new
                > chela (1st initiate) why is his consciousness
                > higher than his last initiation? Jim was an H.I.
                > with 30 years of service until Klemp demoted
                > him for making a mistake in "judgment" and
                > leaving. Since Klemp pointed out JIM's temporary
                > mistakes in judgement why would Klemp demote
                > Jim? Was that True, Necessary, and Kind? I don't
                > think so!
                >
                > Prometheus wrote:
                > I recently saw a 1979 movie "Wise Blood"
                > and the preacher in the movie reminded
                > me of Klemp. I'm thinking that Klemp was
                > a lot like this preacher in his earlier years
                > (circa 1969). Anyway, the role is played by
                > Brad Dourif (who plays the doctor in the
                > HBO series "Deadwood"). I think he was in
                > "Dune" as well!
                >
                > Just Google Brad Dourif or "Wise Blood" and
                > you can find and view a YouTube video clip.
                > See for yourself! I'll bet that many ECKists,
                > and Former ECKists, can see the resemblance
                > between this preacher and Klemp!
                >
                > BTW- This guy preaches that Christ was
                > just a man and that all of those promises,
                > etc. have no value. Instead, people should
                > be worshipping a living man that can redeem
                > them. Sounds like ECKankar doesn't it!
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > ############################################
                > Next are comments about Klemp's
                > DEC. 2008 H.I. Letter FRONT PAGE ARTICLE
                > concerning the BIBLE Story of The PRODIGAL SON.
                >
                > Hello Jivatananda and All,
                > Klemp has nasty comments to all chelas
                > who decide to leave and turn their backs
                > to him, especially, when they write him
                > letters to tell him of their thoughts. He
                > takes this personally because of his ego
                > and narcissism. It's like blind-siding him!
                > This is why it's best to just let one's EK
                > membership lapse.
                >
                > If HK was really who and what he's claimed
                > (the all-knowing Mahanta) he would "know"
                > anyway! But, since Klemp has neither lower
                > or upper plane abilities and awareness he's
                > blind, deaf, dumb and clueless until someone
                > informs him of what's happening now!
                >
                > I did, however, see that in The Wisdom
                > Notes of September, 2008 that Klemp
                > once again bitches about chelas leaving
                > ECKankar. This time Klemp discusses
                > "Jim."
                >
                > Really! Klemp begins this article by saying
                > that, "Many years ago, when I was still young
                > in ECKankar" the Mahanta (PT or DG) to "catch
                > my attention" sent "a fresh face," and that HK
                > "met the ECK Master Rabinowitz." But, that Klemp
                > got the "name" of this "ECK Master" via "mental
                > telepathy."
                >
                > "MENTAL TELEPATHY!" Is Klemp lying or is he
                > delusional? Because IF he DID have these abilities
                > when he was "still young in ECKankar" then why
                > doesn't he have them NOW as a 14th "FULL"
                > (of B.S.) Mahanta! Why doesn't Klemp "KNOW"
                > when his H.I.s are about to leave instead of
                > after the fact! Anyone can have 20/20 hindsight!
                >
                > I think that a good litmus test, for Klemp,
                > would be, What would (2nd initiate) Jesus
                > do, or say?
                >
                >
                > Here's what the tolerant, loving, and
                > compassionate Mahanta (Klemp) has
                > to say about "Jim" and others who have
                > left ECKankar.
                >
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > jivatmananda wrote:
                >
                > Hi Prometheus,
                >
                > Isn't it strange that Klemp teaches that parable as part of his
                > confidential writings to high initiates who are supposed to be much
                > more evolved than Jesus? So it's the spiritual nourishment they get
                > after studying more than 20 years with Eckankar...
                >
                > Anyway, Klemp himself has much to learn from this parable. I remember
                > something he wrote about a women who left Eckankar to follow another
                > master and then came back later to Eckankar. Do you think Klemp
                > welcomed her with open arms? Actually not. He wrote unkind comments
                > and said she should be happy to be re-admitted at a low initiation
                > level. I don't remember when Klemp wrote that article as part of his
                > "wisdom notes", but someone may retrieve it.
                >
                > The truth is that Darth Harry is no different from the inquisitors
                > who tortured and burned heretics while praying for their slavation and
                > being satisfied with a job well done. The only difference is that he
                > lives in a society that doesn't allow that.
                >
                > Jivat
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello All,
                > > Klemp's comment of "Too bad, so sad, your dad"
                > > is a warning by him, the Father, to his ECK children
                > > (i.e. followers) in order to keep them dependent
                > > upon him.
                > >
                > > FYI- I've decided to put this two part story together.
                > > Klemp had it in three parts in order to create the
                > > magical "Principle of the Threes."
                > >
                > > First, there's Klemp's mean spirited New Age
                > > spin of The Prodigal or Lost Son (LUKE 15: 11-32),
                > > and second are Klemp's demeaning comments
                > > and warnings to all ECKists about following "Mark's"
                > > behaviour who left, but then returned to ECKankar.
                >
                > ##########################################
                >
                > > The H.I. Letter December 2008 [front page article]
                > >
                > > HK: "Do you know the biblical story of the PRODIGAL
                > > SON who grew up in a wealthy family enjoying every
                > > comfort and advantage? But he also grew bored.
                > > Adventure. He also craved adventure! Foolish youth
                > > that he was, the son thus approached his father to
                > > ask for his inheritance." [like Klemp did with Darwin?]
                > >
                > > ME: Isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle
                > > black? Klemp attended a private all boys school.
                > > Later, he became bored with farm life and left.
                > > He only returned briefly after being discharged
                > > from the Air Force (1968). HK's parents had
                > > received him with open arms. Klemp stayed
                > > at and worked on the family farm for about a
                > > year, but began to look down his nose at them
                > > and the farm life. Later he left again and went
                > > to work in a nearby city. After awhile Harold
                > > became more and more off balance while living
                > > on his own and ends up following a guy to Texas
                > > whom he claims is an "Unknown ECK Master."
                > > Later HK jumps off a bridge, strips at an airport
                > > and gets committed to a mental institution (1970)
                > > and claims these were the side-effects of "God-
                > > Realization." Harry then meets Marge moves to
                > > Las Vegas and later (after Marge) he gets his foot
                > > in the door at the ESC. Klemp didn't even attend
                > > his father's funeral to be with his grieving mother
                > > and family in mid-October, 1971 because he thought
                > > he might be chosen as the LEM! Klemp's a hypocrite!
                > > Where was the "compassion" for HK's mother from
                > > this "prodigal" and "Mahanta in Training?" Klemp
                > > finds an excuse for everything including his resentment
                > > towards his father and for his ego driven desire
                > > to be the LEM by blind-siding Darwin. Then HK
                > > quotes (2nd initiate) Jesus in order to justify his
                > > lack of compassion and unloving actions with,
                > > "Let the dead bury the dead." It seems Klemp tends
                > > to put a twist on Jesus' words when he's looking
                > > for a justification, or an excuse to manipulate
                > > the circumstances.
                > >
                > > HK: "He wanted to travel, to see the world! No
                > > matter that his father still lived. But the father
                > > knew his son all too well, aware he wanted to
                > > be out from under his eye, to waste himself on
                > > partying. Reluctantly, the father agreed. The son
                > > set out immediately, his wallet loaded and his
                > > spirits high. As you could expect, he suffered
                > > no want of companions to help waste his inheritance.
                > > However, all such things do come to an inglorious
                > > end."
                > >
                > >
                > > ME: This appears to be a feeble attempt by Klemp
                > > to show off his "writing" skills as he gives a distorted
                > > and embellished view in a rewrite of this well known
                > > Bible story. Klemp is coming off as a spiteful old man
                > > who sounds jealous of this other "prodigal son!" BTW-
                > > Klemp was the second oldest until his brother died.
                > > Read on and see if you, too, notice Klemp's mean spirited
                > > attitude and envy come forth in his words. It, also,
                > > seems that Klemp rejoices in the hardships (karma?)
                > > that this young man has to endure.
                > >
                > > HK: "His money vanished. It is hardly surprising that
                > > his circle of friends did too. No longer could he afford
                > > a round of drinks for the house. Nor could he lodge
                > > at four-star inns. His meals went from plenty to few.
                > > Hunger gnawed his stomach.
                > >
                > > To his credit, he did not send his father a plea like the
                > > apocryphal note from a college student to his dad: `No
                > > mon(ey), no fun, your son.'
                > >
                > > To which his father replied: `Too bad, so sad, your dad.'"
                >
                >
                > > ME: How would Klemp know of these comments?
                > > But, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do and
                > > it is what it is... you know! BTW Klemp has one child,
                > > a 35 year old daughter who left home after high school
                > > at 18 and took off to Alaska to work in a cannery.
                > > Has he ever welcomed her back?
                > >
                > > HK: "No, the prodigal [son or daughter] had neither
                > > the means nor the time to send an SOS to his father.
                > > He was broke; he needed to eat. Luckily, he was able
                > > to land a job as a swineherd. His food was now that
                > > of pigs. From the rich man's house, where he was
                > > employed, came the sounds of laughter and fun. They
                > > were having a feast! Sadly, he looked upon the ruin
                > > of his own affairs. How far he had fallen. He was
                > > reduced to sharing the slop of pigs, and glad of it.
                > > Why, at home, he would enjoy better conditions as
                > > the lowest of his father's servants."
                > >
                > > ME: Of course, this Bible story (parable) by Jesus
                > > is used to teach a lesson and was directed toward
                > > those who had lost their belief (due to corrupt religions)
                > > or those who had, early on, turned away from his teachings.
                > > God, the Father, would welcome them back into the
                > > fold once they repented to Him (not to Jesus) and asked
                > > forgiveness for their sins. However, the Two-Faced
                > > Klemp shows he is both the jealous and vengeful God
                > > of the Old Testament, as well as, the kindly Father
                > > (a.k.a. der Heilige Vater)!
                > >
                > > HK: "He would return home. He would throw
                > > himself on the mercy of his father. That was
                > > the only thing to do. So, after a long and arduous
                > > journey, he at last set eyes upon his beloved
                > > home again. And coming out to welcome him
                > > was his father, who wept with joy and embraced
                > > him. Calling to his servants, his father said,
                > > `Prepare a banquet!' He brushed away his
                > > wayward son's offer to work for room and
                > > board. All had turned out roses."
                > >
                > > ME: `All had turned out roses?' I remember
                > > the story saying something about: slay the
                > > fattened calf; my son was lost but, now, is
                > > found; he was once dead but is, now, alive!
                > >
                > > *****************************************************
                > >
                > > NOTE: These are the two parts I spliced together
                > > where Klemp talks about a chela named Mark.
                > >
                > > HK: "A while ago I told a story of someone I will
                > > call `Mark,' who was blessed with a fine mind.
                > > He had also RATED BIRTH into an ECK family.
                > > On the face of it, he enjoyed every advantage.
                > > And, perhaps, that was the problem. Things had
                > > come too easily; he never had to work for them.
                > > So Mark left ECKankar. And, for a time, the good
                > > life rolled merrily along. He was happy."
                > >
                > > ME: If these people rate such good karma then
                > > why aren't they climbing higher on the Initiation
                > > ladder? And, why wasn't Mark "happy" as an ECKist?
                > > Isn't Soul a "happy entity?" Was there too much stress
                > > and volunteer work for those coveted initiations and
                > > empty promises?
                > >
                > > HK: "Then the thin eggshell holding his mind and
                > > emotions together began to show cracks, until,
                > > finally breaking open all the way. His happy, well-
                > > ordered life fell apart. In the depths of his misery,
                > > YOU might expect he would have CALLED to the
                > > Mahanta FOR RELIEF. BUT NO, he had wandered
                > > too far afield from the path of ECK and had lost
                > > sight of it. So he continued to stay lost."
                > >
                > > ME: Is Klemp revealing more about his 1970th
                > > mental breakdown? How does Klemp "Know"
                > > that Mark didn't call upon the Mahanta or Sugmad?
                > > Klemp has to have a written report or a computer
                > > printout to know anything about what is going on
                > > and who gets an initiation!
                > >
                > > HK: "Mark still had it in mind that he could walk
                > > the TRUE spiritual path on his own. What need
                > > did he have for the Mahanta anyway? Things
                > > indeed turned sour."
                > >
                > > ME: Klemp is promoting lifelong dependence
                > > to meet his ego and financial needs.
                > >
                > > HK: "Now let's return to Mark, the prodigal
                > > who foolishly left the Mahanta's table to strike
                > > out on his own. Like the prodigal son in the
                > > parable, he desired independence. Yet he
                > > was too immature to recognize the enormous
                > > self-discipline and good judgment required to
                > > ensure success. He had neither."
                > >
                > > ME: Except, this was a Christian parable and
                > > they don't have a "Living Mahanta" that promises
                > > Self-Mastery and Spiritual Freedom in THIS
                > > Lifetime! Are 7th Initiates, with 35 plus years,
                > > too spiritually immature and still lack the discipline
                > > and good judgment to ensure the success of
                > > independence (Spiritual Freedom) via Self-Mastery?
                > > Aren't children supposed to grow and, eventually,
                > > go? And, let's remember that some parents aren't
                > > all that good at their job and are enablers or manipulate
                > > their children to keep them on the farm (as volunteers)
                > > to work by using fear tactics, guilt, and self-doubt!
                > >
                > > HK: "Therefore, his spiritual character lacked
                > > both strength and will, leaving him at the mercy
                > > of every psychic wave to come along. Mark hit
                > > the shoals of a nervous breakdown, Sometime
                > > later, while floundering in the water over his head,
                > > divine providence opened a way for him to call
                > > on the Mahanta. He has since HALFHEARTEDLY
                > > done so."
                > >
                > > ME: Klemp is a Black Magician that uses Psychic
                > > Waves! Did Mark experience God-Realization like
                > > Klemp? Is this what caused Mark's (19th?) `nervous
                > > breakdown?' Did Mark, also, jump off a bridge
                > > and aim for the shoals and cable as well? Was
                > > Mark `floundering in the water over his head'
                > > like Klemp? I'll bet Mark didn't do a striptease
                > > or get thrown in the looney bin like Klemp!
                > > How does Klemp know what is in Mark's heart
                > > to say that, 'he has since halfheartedly done so?'
                > >
                > > HK: "His foot-dragging means more shoals
                > > ahead, unless he stops his leeward drift and
                > > catches himself in time."
                > >
                > > ME: I thought that the Mahanta was to "catch,"
                > > protect and guide chelas! If not, then what purpose
                > > does Klemp serve? Yes, the so-called Mahanta
                > > is supposed to serve as well! It's a two way street...
                > > not like with the others' God... right!
                > >
                > > HK: "In the meantime, the Golden-tongued
                > > Wisdom is pelting him, and waking dreams
                > > are saturating his life. To be be sure, the cleansing
                > > wind of the ECK is still blowing strong; however,
                > > the peak of the storm seems over."
                > >
                > > ME: What nonsense! Klemp is the Blowhard
                > > with a bag full of promises just like every other
                > > preacher out there. He even uses the same
                > > Christian parables he was taught in the Lutheran
                > > Seminary he attended. The "Wind of Change"
                > > means that ECKists need to, eventually, leave
                > > and become a Law Unto Self!
                > >
                > > HK: "Yet there still remains a grave spiritual
                > > risk. Examine yourself time and again. Are
                > > you keeping up with the Spiritual Exercises
                > > of ECK? Are you doing them with love? Do
                > > you love the Mahanta with all your heart?
                > > Always double-check your standing with the
                > > Master."
                > >
                > > ME: `Double-check' how? In an Initiate Report?
                > > That's the only way Klemp even knows about
                > > what's going on, except, for his spies and the
                > > RESA police! I did all of that with the S.E. etc.
                > > at one time too! Klemp never held up his part
                > > of the bargain! Klemp never takes responsibility
                > > for the negative effects of life (health, etc.) upon
                > > his chelas. The excuse is that the negative Karma
                > > comes about because the chela isn't doing enough,
                > > and/or is doing something wrong! Catch-22 again!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                >
              • jonathanjohns96
                Prometheus, Your commentary about Jim the chela who left Eckankar is correct. When I received this HI Newsletter in the mail and then read it I was very
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 13, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Prometheus,

                  Your commentary about "Jim" the chela who left Eckankar is correct.
                  When I received this HI Newsletter in the mail and then read it I was
                  very offended about how he talked about this person. As you point
                  out, he calls Jim lazy and unimaginative. All because Jim left
                  Eckankar.

                  But I have an interesting question? How did Harold Klemp know what
                  was going on with Jim? Jim had left Eckankar; he had no connection
                  with it. So it would seem to me that HK was invading Jim's private
                  psychic space in order to see what was going on with him. Eckankar
                  openly teaches that it is a violation of spritual law to invade
                  another's psychic space, but it certainly appears that this is
                  exactly what Harold Klemp is doing.

                  For the sake of this arguement I am taking Klemp on his word that he
                  actually knows what Jim is up to, but I really suspect that Klemp
                  simply makes up all of these types of stories. Klemp relates stories
                  like this on a regular basis in the secret newsletters of Eckankar:
                  The Mystic World and the HI Newsletter.

                  Obviously, the purpose of these stories is to scare members so they
                  will not leave Eckankar. Klemp's message is "If you leave Eckankar,
                  you will turn into a 'dummy' like Jim."

                  Jonathan
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