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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Digest Number 1274

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  • Sharon
    Hi Everyone!   Laughing here, I was doing spiritual exercises and contemplation for many years before ekult, but I called it fishing .     
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 10, 2008
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      Hi Everyone!
       
      Laughing here, I was doing "spiritual exercises" and "contemplation" for many years before ekult, but I called it "fishing".  <gg> 
       
      Sometimes I'd admit to people that actually, I was just drowning worms.  Fishing enables you to just sit outdoors relaxing without people thinking you're just trying to escape housework.   Okay, so every so often a fish would bite, and sometimes it was an "active" fish so I'd have to work a bit and even stand up to reel it in, but mostly I went for catfish, which are very easy to catch.  You just cast out and leave it there, and just ignore any "bites" for a long time, to make sure they've swallowed the hook so you won't lose them.
       
      You know, I've wondered and may have even read something somewhere, that the way Easterners do the "master" thing is a bit different from the way Westerners do it, simply because our cultures are so different.  Maybe we translate the words they use in  different way?  Like, a lot of Hindus "worship" all those strange gods and give them offerings of various kinds.  Do they really believe there are really "gods" who are part human and part elephant or monkey or whatever, and that their "offerings" really mean something to these "gods"?   Or are they more like not walking under ladders, or any of the many superstitious practices Westerners do but really don't believe in?
       
      It's almost impossible to spend a lot of time out of doors in nature without feeling a deep sense of awe & gratitude for "God's" gifts and all of creation.  It's impossible to not feel "one" with the Universe, with the rocks and trees and sky, and all the critters who pass your way.  Except maybe mosquitoes.  I especially remember two water-snakes who'd come swimming across the lake about the same time every night, as time passed they seemed to stop and say "hi", it was a really neat thing.
       
      Okay, so I caught & ate a lot of fish, but I guess that's a part of human consciousness.  If they were bigger and I was smaller and in the water, they'd eat *me*!!    I wouldn't be nearly as good as fried catfish, though. 
       
      And once, on a really muggy & humid day when the mosquitoes were even more ravenous than usual, making it impossible for me to enjoy sitting on a huge rock just "being", I somehow found myself sort of turning myself into a rock or something, hard to explain, there was nothing I could do about those darned pesky bloodthirsty skeeters other than just sort of ignore/accept them, and all of a sudden, they stopped biting.  There were still a million of them and they were still landing on me, but they weren't biting anymore.  It was pretty cool!!  And yes, I *did* sort of feel like I'd merged into the rock.  I do believe they have a certain level of "consciousness" beyond our perception.  Life, spirit, whatever...but I've always loved rocks & my kids & I would always bring home lots of them from our hikes, but after awhile indoors, they seemed to "die" in a way, so I'd return them to the woods.   
       
      Anyway, at this point, my "beliefs" have changed so much since I've been out, I'm actually leaning more towards perfectly natural "scientific" explanations for things like "experiences", it's just perfectly natural brain-stuff. 
       
      After I left, I looked into Yogananda's Self-Realization Fellowship for awhile, yakked with several of them, from old-timers to "newbies", and it seemed to me that they got much better "results" than eckists did.   Yogananda emphasized "God" over "guru", IMO.  And their "discourses" seemd to have more "meat" in them, and not a lot of the irrelevant nonsense in the ekult discourses.
       
      I also thought Catholicism's "Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola" were "pure eck".
       
      And, I thought the same about an old Christian-centered Edgar Cayce study course.
       
      Ekult membership & its "spiritual exercises" actually seemed to take away from what I'd experienced rather spontaneously before I heard of it, and made the mistake of joining.
      If anything, I ended up with a severe case of spiritual constipation, totally clogged up from all that nasty eckanstuff!!!  
       
      Some of it seemed obviously silly, like the Friday fast....that was rough on me because I'd often not realize it was Friday until the day was just about over.  <gg>  And since I usually didn't eat all day anyway, fasting was silly - and no way would I give up coffee, the elixir of life!!    So I chose the "mental" fast, which I also thought was a bit silly because weren't we supposed to keep our minds & hearts focused on "the mahanta" every day, all day?  And to "Be The Hu"?
       
      Anyway - just some thoughts here.  Oh, one thing I was interested in for a long time was Patanjali's yoga, didn't pursue it because it was "lower", maybe one of these days I'll get around to looking at it more, but some people might be interested in a Yahoo group started some years back about it, by a former eckist, I read it for awhile but didn't quite have time, let me see if it's still there - yep, it's at:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yoga_Meditation_Truths/
       
      So, what I think is that "the truth is out there", just about everywhere you look, especially with the internet & its infinite amount of information.  Some of it's "safe", some you've gotta watch out for.
       
      I think what it all boils down to is an answer I got from my Oriental Philosophy prof some years back - for the life of me, I could *not* really "get" the difference between Theraveda and Mahayana (don't know if I've got the right words here), and basically just wanted a good "passing" answer to use on exams, one "path" is "instant enlightment" and the other is working for it, I just couldn't see the difference.  His answer was *awesome*, IMO - he said that the "active" one is to keep busy & give people something to do until you get the "instant" enlightment!
       
      I think it's quite possible that some people's brains are wired for "experiences", and maybe some aren't.  But, I also think you can affect your individual "wiring", at least to a certain point.   And do those "experiences" really matter?  Sure, they're fun & interesting, and they can feel incredibly good & all, but isn't what really matters what's in our hearts, and how we live our lives here on earth? 
       
      I ran across an interesting little "quote" the other day - something like if you really want to leave earth, you haven't been here long enough. 
       
      Okay, gotta go, just "killing some time" here, making the transition from grocery shopping & errands, winding down, now I've gotta get moving and go do the dishes & some laundry.
       
      Ho Ho Hugs!!
       
      Sharon
       
       
       

       
      ________________________________________________________________________
      1d. Re: Comparison between Eckankar and Sant Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology
          Posted by: "Leanne Thompson" le_anne_thompson@...
      le_anne_thompson
          Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:41 am ((PST))
      
      could you tell me more about the contemplations or lead me to the link that you
      found? Even though sat mant is a cult, the exercises work? Is it  like
      kandalini yoga from yogi bhajan/
      Thank you
      Leanne
      
      --- On Wed, 12/10/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
      
      From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Comparison between Eckankar and Sant
      Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:03 AM
      
      
      
      
      
      
      Hello Prometheus,
      
      Yes, Sant Mat like Eckankar with its Living Master is a cult too. What
      I find interesting is their recommended time for contemplation, their
      Simran, the focus on the third eye and the crown chakra, and their
      techniques for participation with the Sound Current really work.
      Somewhere in their history, someone got it right and taught something
      worthwhile.
      
      If Paul Twitchell hadn't stolen the spiritual exercises from Sant Mat,
      Eckankar wouldn't have worked for many of us. Of course, he diluted
      Sant Mat's contemplation down to 30 minutes (barely enough time to
      control the mind) and falsely wanted us to focus on him as a Godman.
      
      It wasn't until I learned when and how to really contemplate,
      according to Sant Mat tradition, that I started having the experiences
      that showed me the fabrications of Eckankar and the false claims of
      its fraudulent master - Klemp. During these contemplations I learned
      there is no master who intercedes between God and Soul, rather it is
      the Supreme Being's presence that is with each individual quietly
      helping them develop into a greater self.
      
      False masters like Twitchell, Gross, and Klemp laid claim to this
      inner presence by saying they were the ones guiding Soul.
      
      Regards
      Liska
      
      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_
      973"
      <prometheus_ 973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Liska,
      > Yes, Sant Mat which includes Radhasoami and 
      > Ruhani Satsang Beas have Living Masters too! 
      > This is where Twitchell copied most of his 
      > ECKankar dogma and cosmology. 
      > 
      > However, I question the validity of these Sant 
      > Mat religions as well. There's as much myth, 
      > speculation, and wishful thinking (faith & belief)
      > involving higher plane experiences, promises, 
      > guilts, and fears, here, (and for the Master to 
      > intervene or to eliminate Karma) as there is with 
      > ECKankar!
      > 
      > I agree that there are many decent people who
      > have been deceived by ECKankar. However, there
      > are also many decent people in other religions
      > as well. Not all of them are narrow minded 
      > fundamentalists, narcissists, and mean-spirited
      > hypocrites!
      > 
      > Prometheus
      
      

    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Sharon and Everyone! Enjoyed reading your post, especially about fishing and mosquitos. I never was good at fishing and it seems mosquitos like me too
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 10, 2008
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        Hi, Sharon and Everyone!

        Enjoyed reading your post, especially about fishing
        and mosquitos. I never was good at fishing and it seems
        mosquitos like me too well!! LOL! However, I do enjoy
        swimming and find that a way to do "spiritual exercises"
        and "contemplation." It is so relaxing-- the mind can
        take wing!! I guess if one finds something enjoyable and
        relaxing at the same time that one might be able to find
        that place of "contemplation." Sharon, thanks for pointing
        out that spending time in the outdoors and close to nature
        is a way to feel a closeness with God. And I agree in what
        you wrote, " isn't what really matters what's in our hearts,
        and how we live our lives here on earth?"

        Also, you wrote:
        "I ran across an interesting little "quote" the other day - something
        like if you really want to leave earth, you haven't been here long
        enough."

        It seems so many spend their entire life on earth preparing to go
        to a "better" place that the pleasures and joys to be found here are
        lost. Really strange because no one knows what actually lies
        ahead, if anything really. So why not enjoy what is here now as
        long as we are responsible and caring individuals . . . This is one
        of the biggest wrongs taught in eckankar imo--so much talk of
        sacrifice and working for the mahanta, there is hardly any time
        left to truly live!

        Mish


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Sharon <brighttigress@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi Everyone!
        >  
        > Laughing here, I was doing "spiritual exercises" and "contemplation" for many years
        before ekult, but I called it "fishing".  <gg> 
        >  
        > Sometimes I'd admit to people that actually, I was just drowning worms.  Fishing
        enables you to just sit outdoors relaxing without people thinking you're just trying to
        escape housework.   Okay, so every so often a fish would bite, and sometimes it was an
        "active" fish so I'd have to work a bit and even stand up to reel it in, but mostly I went for
        catfish, which are very easy to catch.  You just cast out and leave it there, and just ignore
        any "bites" for a long time, to make sure they've swallowed the hook so you won't lose
        them.
        >  
        > You know, I've wondered and may have even read something somewhere, that the way
        Easterners do the "master" thing is a bit different from the way Westerners do it, simply
        because our cultures are so different.  Maybe we translate the words they use in  different
        way?  Like, a lot of Hindus "worship" all those strange gods and give them offerings of
        various kinds.  Do they really believe there are really "gods" who are part human and part
        elephant or monkey or whatever, and that their "offerings" really mean something to these
        "gods"?   Or are they more like not walking under ladders, or any of the many superstitious
        practices Westerners do but really don't believe in?
        >  
        > It's almost impossible to spend a lot of time out of doors in nature without feeling a
        deep sense of awe & gratitude for "God's" gifts and all of creation.  It's impossible to not
        feel "one" with the Universe, with the rocks and trees and sky, and all the critters who pass
        your way.  Except maybe mosquitoes.  I especially remember two water-snakes who'd
        come swimming across the lake about the same time every night, as time passed they
        seemed to stop and say "hi", it was a really neat thing.
        >  
        > Okay, so I caught & ate a lot of fish, but I guess that's a part of human consciousness. 
        If they were bigger and I was smaller and in the water, they'd eat *me*!!    I wouldn't be
        nearly as good as fried catfish, though. 
        >  
        > And once, on a really muggy & humid day when the mosquitoes were even more
        ravenous than usual, making it impossible for me to enjoy sitting on a huge rock just
        "being", I somehow found myself sort of turning myself into a rock or something, hard to
        explain, there was nothing I could do about those darned pesky bloodthirsty skeeters
        other than just sort of ignore/accept them, and all of a sudden, they stopped biting.  There
        were still a million of them and they were still landing on me, but they weren't biting
        anymore.  It was pretty cool!!  And yes, I *did* sort of feel like I'd merged into the rock.  I
        do believe they have a certain level of "consciousness" beyond our perception.  Life, spirit,
        whatever...but I've always loved rocks & my kids & I would always bring home lots of them
        from our hikes, but after awhile indoors, they seemed to "die" in a way, so I'd return them
        to the woods.   
        >  
        > Anyway, at this point, my "beliefs" have changed so much since I've been out, I'm
        actually leaning more towards perfectly natural "scientific" explanations for things like
        "experiences", it's just perfectly natural brain-stuff. 
        >  
        > After I left, I looked into Yogananda's Self-Realization Fellowship for awhile, yakked
        with several of them, from old-timers to "newbies", and it seemed to me that they got
        much better "results" than eckists did.   Yogananda emphasized "God" over "guru", IMO. 
        And their "discourses" seemd to have more "meat" in them, and not a lot of the irrelevant
        nonsense in the ekult discourses.
        >  
        > I also thought Catholicism's "Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola" were "pure
        eck".
        >  
        > And, I thought the same about an old Christian-centered Edgar Cayce study course.
        >  
        > Ekult membership & its "spiritual exercises" actually seemed to take away from what I'd
        experienced rather spontaneously before I heard of it, and made the mistake of joining.
        > If anything, I ended up with a severe case of spiritual constipation, totally clogged up
        from all that nasty eckanstuff!!!  
        >  
        > Some of it seemed obviously silly, like the Friday fast....that was rough on me because
        I'd often not realize it was Friday until the day was just about over.  <gg>  And since I
        usually didn't eat all day anyway, fasting was silly - and no way would I give up coffee, the
        elixir of life!!    So I chose the "mental" fast, which I also thought was a bit silly because
        weren't we supposed to keep our minds & hearts focused on "the mahanta" every day, all
        day?  And to "Be The Hu"?
        >  
        > Anyway - just some thoughts here.  Oh, one thing I was interested in for a long time
        was Patanjali's yoga, didn't pursue it because it was "lower", maybe one of these days
        I'll get around to looking at it more, but some people might be interested in a Yahoo
        group started some years back about it, by a former eckist, I read it for awhile but didn't
        quite have time, let me see if it's still there - yep, it's at: 
         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yoga_Meditation_Truths/
        >  
        > So, what I think is that "the truth is out there", just about everywhere you look,
        especially with the internet & its infinite amount of information.  Some of it's "safe", some
        you've gotta watch out for.
        >  
        > I think what it all boils down to is an answer I got from my Oriental Philosophy prof
        some years back - for the life of me, I could *not* really "get" the difference between
        Theraveda and Mahayana (don't know if I've got the right words here), and basically just
        wanted a good "passing" answer to use on exams, one "path" is "instant enlightment" and
        the other is working for it, I just couldn't see the difference.  His answer was *awesome*,
        IMO - he said that the "active" one is to keep busy & give people something to do until you
        get the "instant" enlightment!
        >  
        > I think it's quite possible that some people's brains are wired for "experiences", and
        maybe some aren't.  But, I also think you can affect your individual "wiring", at least to a
        certain point.   And do those "experiences" really matter?  Sure, they're fun & interesting,
        and they can feel incredibly good & all, but isn't what really matters what's in our hearts,
        and how we live our lives here on earth? 
        >  
        > I ran across an interesting little "quote" the other day - something like if you really want
        to leave earth, you haven't been here long enough. 
        >  
        > Okay, gotta go, just "killing some time" here, making the transition from grocery
        shopping & errands, winding down, now I've gotta get moving and go do the dishes &
        some laundry.
        >  
        > Ho Ho Hugs!!
        >  
        > Sharon
        >  
        >  
        >  
        >
        >  
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > 1d. Re: Comparison between Eckankar and Sant Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology
        > Posted by: "Leanne Thompson" le_anne_thompson@...
        > le_anne_thompson
        > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:41 am ((PST))
        >
        > could you tell me more about the contemplations or lead me to the link that you
        > found? Even though sat mant is a cult, the exercises work? Is it  like
        > kandalini yoga from yogi bhajan/
        > Thank you
        > Leanne
        >
        > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Comparison between Eckankar and Sant
        > Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology
        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:03 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hello Prometheus,
        >
        > Yes, Sant Mat like Eckankar with its Living Master is a cult too. What
        > I find interesting is their recommended time for contemplation, their
        > Simran, the focus on the third eye and the crown chakra, and their
        > techniques for participation with the Sound Current really work.
        > Somewhere in their history, someone got it right and taught something
        > worthwhile.
        >
        > If Paul Twitchell hadn't stolen the spiritual exercises from Sant Mat,
        > Eckankar wouldn't have worked for many of us. Of course, he diluted
        > Sant Mat's contemplation down to 30 minutes (barely enough time to
        > control the mind) and falsely wanted us to focus on him as a Godman.
        >
        > It wasn't until I learned when and how to really contemplate,
        > according to Sant Mat tradition, that I started having the experiences
        > that showed me the fabrications of Eckankar and the false claims of
        > its fraudulent master - Klemp. During these contemplations I learned
        > there is no master who intercedes between God and Soul, rather it is
        > the Supreme Being's presence that is with each individual quietly
        > helping them develop into a greater self.
        >
        > False masters like Twitchell, Gross, and Klemp laid claim to this
        > inner presence by saying they were the ones guiding Soul.
        >
        > Regards
        > Liska
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_
        > 973"
        > <prometheus_ 973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Liska,
        > > Yes, Sant Mat which includes Radhasoami and
        > > Ruhani Satsang Beas have Living Masters too!
        > > This is where Twitchell copied most of his
        > > ECKankar dogma and cosmology.
        > >
        > > However, I question the validity of these Sant
        > > Mat religions as well. There's as much myth,
        > > speculation, and wishful thinking (faith & belief)
        > > involving higher plane experiences, promises,
        > > guilts, and fears, here, (and for the Master to
        > > intervene or to eliminate Karma) as there is with
        > > ECKankar!
        > >
        > > I agree that there are many decent people who
        > > have been deceived by ECKankar. However, there
        > > are also many decent people in other religions
        > > as well. Not all of them are narrow minded
        > > fundamentalists, narcissists, and mean-spirited
        > > hypocrites!
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        >
      • drubezarne
        Yes, one thing I believe we all learned from our Eckankar experiences is that no one can claim to own truth. A forum like this can allow many diverse opinions.
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 11, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Yes, one thing I believe we all learned from our Eckankar experiences
          is that no one can claim to own truth. A forum like this can allow
          many diverse opinions. What we discover doesn't necessarily have to
          work for anyone else, as long it works for us.

          Some have greater awareness by communing with nature, swimming,
          hugging their grandchildren, meditating, or whatever. Unlike Eckankar
          which discouraged individuality by promoting a certain dogma, those of
          us on this forum can respect each other's own unique ways without any
          ridicule or blame.

          Regards
          Liska

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Sharon and Everyone!
          >
          > Enjoyed reading your post, especially about fishing
          > and mosquitos. I never was good at fishing and it seems
          > mosquitos like me too well!! LOL! However, I do enjoy
          > swimming and find that a way to do "spiritual exercises"
          > and "contemplation." It is so relaxing-- the mind can
          > take wing!! I guess if one finds something enjoyable and
          > relaxing at the same time that one might be able to find
          > that place of "contemplation." Sharon, thanks for pointing
          > out that spending time in the outdoors and close to nature
          > is a way to feel a closeness with God. And I agree in what
          > you wrote, " isn't what really matters what's in our hearts,
          > and how we live our lives here on earth?"
          >
          > Also, you wrote:
          > "I ran across an interesting little "quote" the other day - something
          > like if you really want to leave earth, you haven't been here long
          > enough."
          >
          > It seems so many spend their entire life on earth preparing to go
          > to a "better" place that the pleasures and joys to be found here are
          > lost. Really strange because no one knows what actually lies
          > ahead, if anything really. So why not enjoy what is here now as
          > long as we are responsible and caring individuals . . . This is one
          > of the biggest wrongs taught in eckankar imo--so much talk of
          > sacrifice and working for the mahanta, there is hardly any time
          > left to truly live!
          >
          > Mish
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Sharon
          <brighttigress@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Everyone!
          > >  
          > > Laughing here, I was doing "spiritual exercises" and
          "contemplation" for many years
          > before ekult, but I called it "fishing".  <gg> 
          > >  
          > > Sometimes I'd admit to people that actually, I was just drowning
          worms.  Fishing
          > enables you to just sit outdoors relaxing without people thinking
          you're just trying to
          > escape housework.   Okay, so every so often a fish would bite, and
          sometimes it was an
          > "active" fish so I'd have to work a bit and even stand up to reel it
          in, but mostly I went for
          > catfish, which are very easy to catch.  You just cast out and leave
          it there, and just ignore
          > any "bites" for a long time, to make sure they've swallowed the hook
          so you won't lose
          > them.
          > >  
          > > You know, I've wondered and may have even read something
          somewhere, that the way
          > Easterners do the "master" thing is a bit different from the way
          Westerners do it, simply
          > because our cultures are so different.  Maybe we translate the words
          they use in  different
          > way?  Like, a lot of Hindus "worship" all those strange gods and
          give them offerings of
          > various kinds.  Do they really believe there are really "gods" who
          are part human and part
          > elephant or monkey or whatever, and that their "offerings" really
          mean something to these
          > "gods"?   Or are they more like not walking under ladders, or any of
          the many superstitious
          > practices Westerners do but really don't believe in?
          > >  
          > > It's almost impossible to spend a lot of time out of doors in
          nature without feeling a
          > deep sense of awe & gratitude for "God's" gifts and all of
          creation.  It's impossible to not
          > feel "one" with the Universe, with the rocks and trees and sky, and
          all the critters who pass
          > your way.  Except maybe mosquitoes.  I especially remember two
          water-snakes who'd
          > come swimming across the lake about the same time every night, as
          time passed they
          > seemed to stop and say "hi", it was a really neat thing.
          > >  
          > > Okay, so I caught & ate a lot of fish, but I guess that's a part
          of human consciousness. 
          > If they were bigger and I was smaller and in the water, they'd eat
          *me*!!    I wouldn't be
          > nearly as good as fried catfish, though. 
          > >  
          > > And once, on a really muggy & humid day when the mosquitoes were
          even more
          > ravenous than usual, making it impossible for me to enjoy sitting on
          a huge rock just
          > "being", I somehow found myself sort of turning myself into a rock
          or something, hard to
          > explain, there was nothing I could do about those darned pesky
          bloodthirsty skeeters
          > other than just sort of ignore/accept them, and all of a sudden,
          they stopped biting.  There
          > were still a million of them and they were still landing on me, but
          they weren't biting
          > anymore.  It was pretty cool!!  And yes, I *did* sort of feel like
          I'd merged into the rock.  I
          > do believe they have a certain level of "consciousness" beyond our
          perception.  Life, spirit,
          > whatever...but I've always loved rocks & my kids & I would always
          bring home lots of them
          > from our hikes, but after awhile indoors, they seemed to "die" in a
          way, so I'd return them
          > to the woods.   
          > >  
          > > Anyway, at this point, my "beliefs" have changed so much since
          I've been out, I'm
          > actually leaning more towards perfectly natural "scientific"
          explanations for things like
          > "experiences", it's just perfectly natural brain-stuff. 
          > >  
          > > After I left, I looked into Yogananda's Self-Realization
          Fellowship for awhile, yakked
          > with several of them, from old-timers to "newbies", and it seemed to
          me that they got
          > much better "results" than eckists did.   Yogananda emphasized "God"
          over "guru", IMO. 
          > And their "discourses" seemd to have more "meat" in them, and not a
          lot of the irrelevant
          > nonsense in the ekult discourses.
          > >  
          > > I also thought Catholicism's "Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius
          of Loyola" were "pure
          > eck".
          > >  
          > > And, I thought the same about an old Christian-centered Edgar
          Cayce study course.
          > >  
          > > Ekult membership & its "spiritual exercises" actually seemed to
          take away from what I'd
          > experienced rather spontaneously before I heard of it, and made the
          mistake of joining.
          > > If anything, I ended up with a severe case of spiritual
          constipation, totally clogged up
          > from all that nasty eckanstuff!!!  
          > >  
          > > Some of it seemed obviously silly, like the Friday fast....that
          was rough on me because
          > I'd often not realize it was Friday until the day was just about
          over.  <gg>  And since I
          > usually didn't eat all day anyway, fasting was silly - and no way
          would I give up coffee, the
          > elixir of life!!    So I chose the "mental" fast, which I also
          thought was a bit silly because
          > weren't we supposed to keep our minds & hearts focused on "the
          mahanta" every day, all
          > day?  And to "Be The Hu"?
          > >  
          > > Anyway - just some thoughts here.  Oh, one thing I was interested
          in for a long time
          > was Patanjali's yoga, didn't pursue it because it was "lower", maybe
          one of these days
          > I'll get around to looking at it more, but some people might be
          interested in a Yahoo
          > group started some years back about it, by a former eckist, I read
          it for awhile but didn't
          > quite have time, let me see if it's still there - yep, it's at: 
          >  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yoga_Meditation_Truths/
          > >  
          > > So, what I think is that "the truth is out there", just about
          everywhere you look,
          > especially with the internet & its infinite amount of information. 
          Some of it's "safe", some
          > you've gotta watch out for.
          > >  
          > > I think what it all boils down to is an answer I got from my
          Oriental Philosophy prof
          > some years back - for the life of me, I could *not* really "get" the
          difference between
          > Theraveda and Mahayana (don't know if I've got the right words
          here), and basically just
          > wanted a good "passing" answer to use on exams, one "path" is
          "instant enlightment" and
          > the other is working for it, I just couldn't see the difference. 
          His answer was *awesome*,
          > IMO - he said that the "active" one is to keep busy & give people
          something to do until you
          > get the "instant" enlightment!
          > >  
          > > I think it's quite possible that some people's brains are wired
          for "experiences", and
          > maybe some aren't.  But, I also think you can affect your individual
          "wiring", at least to a
          > certain point.   And do those "experiences" really matter?  Sure,
          they're fun & interesting,
          > and they can feel incredibly good & all, but isn't what really
          matters what's in our hearts,
          > and how we live our lives here on earth? 
          > >  
          > > I ran across an interesting little "quote" the other day -
          something like if you really want
          > to leave earth, you haven't been here long enough. 
          > >  
          > > Okay, gotta go, just "killing some time" here, making the
          transition from grocery
          > shopping & errands, winding down, now I've gotta get moving and go
          do the dishes &
          > some laundry.
          > >  
          > > Ho Ho Hugs!!
          > >  
          > > Sharon
          > >  
          > >  
          > >  
          > >
          > >  
          > >
          ________________________________________________________________________
          > > 1d. Re: Comparison between Eckankar and Sant Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology
          > > Posted by: "Leanne Thompson" le_anne_thompson@
          > > le_anne_thompson
          > > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:41 am ((PST))
          > >
          > > could you tell me more about the contemplations or lead me to the
          link that you
          > > found? Even though sat mant is a cult, the exercises work? Is it  like
          > > kandalini yoga from yogi bhajan/
          > > Thank you
          > > Leanne
          > >
          > > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@> wrote:
          > >
          > > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@>
          > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Comparison between
          Eckankar and Sant
          > > Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology
          > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:03 AM
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hello Prometheus,
          > >
          > > Yes, Sant Mat like Eckankar with its Living Master is a cult too. What
          > > I find interesting is their recommended time for contemplation, their
          > > Simran, the focus on the third eye and the crown chakra, and their
          > > techniques for participation with the Sound Current really work.
          > > Somewhere in their history, someone got it right and taught something
          > > worthwhile.
          > >
          > > If Paul Twitchell hadn't stolen the spiritual exercises from Sant Mat,
          > > Eckankar wouldn't have worked for many of us. Of course, he diluted
          > > Sant Mat's contemplation down to 30 minutes (barely enough time to
          > > control the mind) and falsely wanted us to focus on him as a Godman.
          > >
          > > It wasn't until I learned when and how to really contemplate,
          > > according to Sant Mat tradition, that I started having the experiences
          > > that showed me the fabrications of Eckankar and the false claims of
          > > its fraudulent master - Klemp. During these contemplations I learned
          > > there is no master who intercedes between God and Soul, rather it is
          > > the Supreme Being's presence that is with each individual quietly
          > > helping them develop into a greater self.
          > >
          > > False masters like Twitchell, Gross, and Klemp laid claim to this
          > > inner presence by saying they were the ones guiding Soul.
          > >
          > > Regards
          > > Liska
          > >
          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_
          > > 973"
          > > <prometheus_ 973@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hello Liska,
          > > > Yes, Sant Mat which includes Radhasoami and
          > > > Ruhani Satsang Beas have Living Masters too!
          > > > This is where Twitchell copied most of his
          > > > ECKankar dogma and cosmology.
          > > >
          > > > However, I question the validity of these Sant
          > > > Mat religions as well. There's as much myth,
          > > > speculation, and wishful thinking (faith & belief)
          > > > involving higher plane experiences, promises,
          > > > guilts, and fears, here, (and for the Master to
          > > > intervene or to eliminate Karma) as there is with
          > > > ECKankar!
          > > >
          > > > I agree that there are many decent people who
          > > > have been deceived by ECKankar. However, there
          > > > are also many decent people in other religions
          > > > as well. Not all of them are narrow minded
          > > > fundamentalists, narcissists, and mean-spirited
          > > > hypocrites!
          > > >
          > > > Prometheus
          > >
          >
        • Non ekster
          I went to one of the Sant Mat orientations, one of the several offshoots that had a colony of sorts in Oregon as well as India. We were told that if we chose
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 14, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            I went to one of the Sant Mat orientations, one of the several
            offshoots that had a colony of sorts in Oregon as well as India. We
            were told that if we chose to stay to be initiated, about a three hour
            process, we would be permanently put on the one true path, but we
            would have to agree to a very strict vegetarian diet, chastity, and
            devotion, blah, blah. We were also warned that if we declined this
            initiation that we were giving up our chance for ultimate god
            realization, and so on. The only thing that was different from
            eckankarp was the books and other lit were free for the taking. I'm
            sure they got your money and assets eventually. Threats still
            abounded, just like eckankar.

            By the way, controlling the mind for hours a day is a form of mind
            control for which you will have "experiences". It can be an
            interesting experiment, but not sure it is anything beyond brain
            plasticity or normal and natural stuff. Some of it may even be bad for
            you, like doing drugs too often or in too high a dose.

            Some meditation is just open ended with a soft focus in the present,
            as simple as awareness of the breath and body, receptive allowing and
            being, not repressive. I'm not even sure that there is such a state
            where you are meant to always feel 100% good all the time.

            Oprah was pushing The Secret for a while now, yet she continues to
            have weight problems, as do many who I know who believe in this or
            similar Consciousness schemes.

            It would be nice if the solution to all our problems were so easy.

            Nonekster ; )

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Sharon
            <brighttigress@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Everyone!
            >  
            > Laughing here, I was doing "spiritual exercises" and "contemplation"
            for many years before ekult, but I called it "fishing".  <gg> 
            >  
            > Sometimes I'd admit to people that actually, I was just drowning
            worms.  Fishing enables you to just sit outdoors relaxing without
            people thinking you're just trying to escape housework.   Okay, so
            every so often a fish would bite, and sometimes it was an "active"
            fish so I'd have to work a bit and even stand up to reel it in, but
            mostly I went for catfish, which are very easy to catch.  You just
            cast out and leave it there, and just ignore any "bites" for a long
            time, to make sure they've swallowed the hook so you won't lose them.
            >  
            > You know, I've wondered and may have even read something somewhere,
            that the way Easterners do the "master" thing is a bit different from
            the way Westerners do it, simply because our cultures are so
            different.  Maybe we translate the words they use in  different way? 
            Like, a lot of Hindus "worship" all those strange gods and give them
            offerings of various kinds.  Do they really believe there are really
            "gods" who are part human and part elephant or monkey or whatever, and
            that their "offerings" really mean something to these "gods"?   Or are
            they more like not walking under ladders, or any of the many
            superstitious practices Westerners do but really don't believe in?
            >  
            > It's almost impossible to spend a lot of time out of doors in nature
            without feeling a deep sense of awe & gratitude for "God's" gifts and
            all of creation.  It's impossible to not feel "one" with the Universe,
            with the rocks and trees and sky, and all the critters who pass your
            way.  Except maybe mosquitoes.  I especially remember two water-snakes
            who'd come swimming across the lake about the same time every night,
            as time passed they seemed to stop and say "hi", it was a really neat
            thing.
            >  
            > Okay, so I caught & ate a lot of fish, but I guess that's a part of
            human consciousness.  If they were bigger and I was smaller and in the
            water, they'd eat *me*!!    I wouldn't be nearly as good as fried
            catfish, though. 
            >  
            > And once, on a really muggy & humid day when the mosquitoes were
            even more ravenous than usual, making it impossible for me to enjoy
            sitting on a huge rock just "being", I somehow found myself sort of
            turning myself into a rock or something, hard to explain, there was
            nothing I could do about those darned pesky bloodthirsty skeeters
            other than just sort of ignore/accept them, and all of a sudden, they
            stopped biting.  There were still a million of them and they were
            still landing on me, but they weren't biting anymore.  It was pretty
            cool!!  And yes, I *did* sort of feel like I'd merged into the rock. 
            I do believe they have a certain level of "consciousness" beyond our
            perception.  Life, spirit, whatever...but I've always loved rocks & my
            kids & I would always bring home lots of them from our hikes, but
            after awhile indoors, they seemed to "die" in a way, so I'd return
            them to the woods.   
            >  
            > Anyway, at this point, my "beliefs" have changed so much since I've
            been out, I'm actually leaning more towards perfectly natural
            "scientific" explanations for things like "experiences", it's just
            perfectly natural brain-stuff. 
            >  
            > After I left, I looked into Yogananda's Self-Realization Fellowship
            for awhile, yakked with several of them, from old-timers to "newbies",
            and it seemed to me that they got much better "results" than eckists
            did.   Yogananda emphasized "God" over "guru", IMO.  And their
            "discourses" seemd to have more "meat" in them, and not a lot of the
            irrelevant nonsense in the ekult discourses.
            >  
            > I also thought Catholicism's "Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of
            Loyola" were "pure eck".
            >  
            > And, I thought the same about an old Christian-centered Edgar Cayce
            study course.
            >  
            > Ekult membership & its "spiritual exercises" actually seemed to take
            away from what I'd experienced rather spontaneously before I heard of
            it, and made the mistake of joining.
            > If anything, I ended up with a severe case of spiritual
            constipation, totally clogged up from all that nasty eckanstuff!!!  
            >  
            > Some of it seemed obviously silly, like the Friday fast....that was
            rough on me because I'd often not realize it was Friday until the day
            was just about over.  <gg>  And since I usually didn't eat all day
            anyway, fasting was silly - and no way would I give up coffee, the
            elixir of life!!    So I chose the "mental" fast, which I also thought
            was a bit silly because weren't we supposed to keep our minds & hearts
            focused on "the mahanta" every day, all day?  And to "Be The Hu"?
            >  
            > Anyway - just some thoughts here.  Oh, one thing I was interested in
            for a long time was Patanjali's yoga, didn't pursue it because it was
            "lower", maybe one of these days I'll get around to looking at it
            more, but some people might be interested in a Yahoo group started
            some years back about it, by a former eckist, I read it for awhile but
            didn't quite have time, let me see if it's still there - yep, it's
            at:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yoga_Meditation_Truths/
            >  
            > So, what I think is that "the truth is out there", just about
            everywhere you look, especially with the internet & its infinite
            amount of information.  Some of it's "safe", some you've gotta watch
            out for.
            >  
            > I think what it all boils down to is an answer I got from my
            Oriental Philosophy prof some years back - for the life of me, I could
            *not* really "get" the difference between Theraveda and Mahayana
            (don't know if I've got the right words here), and basically just
            wanted a good "passing" answer to use on exams, one "path" is "instant
            enlightment" and the other is working for it, I just couldn't see the
            difference.  His answer was *awesome*, IMO - he said that the "active"
            one is to keep busy & give people something to do until you get the
            "instant" enlightment!
            >  
            > I think it's quite possible that some people's brains are wired for
            "experiences", and maybe some aren't.  But, I also think you can
            affect your individual "wiring", at least to a certain point.   And do
            those "experiences" really matter?  Sure, they're fun & interesting,
            and they can feel incredibly good & all, but isn't what really matters
            what's in our hearts, and how we live our lives here on earth? 
            >  
            > I ran across an interesting little "quote" the other day - something
            like if you really want to leave earth, you haven't been here long
            enough. 
            >  
            > Okay, gotta go, just "killing some time" here, making the transition
            from grocery shopping & errands, winding down, now I've gotta get
            moving and go do the dishes & some laundry.
            >  
            > Ho Ho Hugs!!
            >  
            > Sharon
            >  
            >  
            >  
            >
            >  
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            > 1d. Re: Comparison between Eckankar and Sant Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology
            > Posted by: "Leanne Thompson" le_anne_thompson@...
            > le_anne_thompson
            > Date: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:41 am ((PST))
            >
            > could you tell me more about the contemplations or lead me to the
            link that you
            > found? Even though sat mant is a cult, the exercises work? Is it  like
            > kandalini yoga from yogi bhajan/
            > Thank you
            > Leanne
            >
            > --- On Wed, 12/10/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Comparison between
            Eckankar and Sant
            > Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology
            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:03 AM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hello Prometheus,
            >
            > Yes, Sant Mat like Eckankar with its Living Master is a cult too. What
            > I find interesting is their recommended time for contemplation, their
            > Simran, the focus on the third eye and the crown chakra, and their
            > techniques for participation with the Sound Current really work.
            > Somewhere in their history, someone got it right and taught something
            > worthwhile.
            >
            > If Paul Twitchell hadn't stolen the spiritual exercises from Sant Mat,
            > Eckankar wouldn't have worked for many of us. Of course, he diluted
            > Sant Mat's contemplation down to 30 minutes (barely enough time to
            > control the mind) and falsely wanted us to focus on him as a Godman.
            >
            > It wasn't until I learned when and how to really contemplate,
            > according to Sant Mat tradition, that I started having the experiences
            > that showed me the fabrications of Eckankar and the false claims of
            > its fraudulent master - Klemp. During these contemplations I learned
            > there is no master who intercedes between God and Soul, rather it is
            > the Supreme Being's presence that is with each individual quietly
            > helping them develop into a greater self.
            >
            > False masters like Twitchell, Gross, and Klemp laid claim to this
            > inner presence by saying they were the ones guiding Soul.
            >
            > Regards
            > Liska
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_
            > 973"
            > <prometheus_ 973@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello Liska,
            > > Yes, Sant Mat which includes Radhasoami and
            > > Ruhani Satsang Beas have Living Masters too!
            > > This is where Twitchell copied most of his
            > > ECKankar dogma and cosmology.
            > >
            > > However, I question the validity of these Sant
            > > Mat religions as well. There's as much myth,
            > > speculation, and wishful thinking (faith & belief)
            > > involving higher plane experiences, promises,
            > > guilts, and fears, here, (and for the Master to
            > > intervene or to eliminate Karma) as there is with
            > > ECKankar!
            > >
            > > I agree that there are many decent people who
            > > have been deceived by ECKankar. However, there
            > > are also many decent people in other religions
            > > as well. Not all of them are narrow minded
            > > fundamentalists, narcissists, and mean-spirited
            > > hypocrites!
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Non ekster and All, This is why Twitchell Westernized Sant Mat. Twit took out the Vegan and Chastity requirements in order to make it palatable to the
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 15, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Non ekster and All,
              This is why Twitchell "Westernized" Sant Mat.
              Twit took out the Vegan and Chastity requirements
              in order to make it palatable to the Western mindset.
              This was, also, done with other Eastern Religions
              introduced to the West such as TM (Transcendental
              Meditation). And, with TM, the version given to the
              public was different from the version that those of
              the inner circle (i.e. Governors and Siddhas) experienced.
              They were expected to become Vegans, and Chastity
              was promoted but not quite required for house-
              holders.

              However, with ECKankar, the same approach of Bait
              and Switch is used. At least Sant Mat is up front with
              things, although, one can see where Twit got his fear
              tactic propaganda.

              ECKankar hides many things from the public that
              one doesn't uncover for several years down the road.
              The initiation process and the requirements of service
              and maintaining an annual membership for "spiritual"
              growth are just some of them. Of course, "keeping silent"
              of ECK history and of other uncovered truths are other
              requirements. Anyone talking about Darwin, let alone
              saying anything nice, will be placed on a Black List
              that will delay/prevent their next initiation! Let's face
              it, Hierarchies don't work very well. Look at the military!
              There are many incompetent people that have "Rank"
              over the competent ones! This fact about hierarchies
              applies to ECKankar, too, and is proof that Klemp, the
              Mahanta, doesn't have any Inner Communication.

              When these "spiritual" frauds and mini-masters can
              find people who Need and Want to believe, in the
              Catch-22 of religious dogma, then it seems there
              are always those who get suckered in. It's really too
              bad for the real seekers of TRUTH. We were taken in
              because we noticed changes in ourselves and we needed
              to believe that others were more spiritually evolved
              and could lead the way for us as others did with them
              (or so the story goes).

              However, when I first joined ECKankar it was with
              the idea that I would need X-number of years on this
              "Path" before I no longer needed it because it would
              have given me what I needed for my own Self-Mastery
              by then. I started out knowing more than most H.I.s
              about proper Contemplation, Waking Dreams, Lucid
              Dreaming, Golden-Tongued Wisdom and many other
              things. I figured that I'd give EK maybe 10 years, but
              then it grew to 20 years and then I forgot the promise
              that I had made to my Self. I got lost and caught up
              in the workings of the org, of religion, and initiations
              and all of the busy work to keep us pre-occupied and
              distracted. But, such is religion and such is ECKankar!

              Prometheus




              Non ekster wrote:

              I went to one of the Sant Mat orientations, one of the several
              offshoots that had a colony of sorts in Oregon as well as India.
              We were told that if we chose to stay to be initiated, about a three
              hour process, we would be permanently put on the one true path,
              but we would have to agree to a very strict vegetarian diet, chastity,
              and devotion, blah, blah. We were also warned that if we declined
              this initiation that we were giving up our chance for ultimate god
              realization, and so on. The only thing that was different from
              eckankarp was the books and other lit were free for the taking.
              I'm sure they got your money and assets eventually. Threats
              still abounded, just like eckankar.

              By the way, controlling the mind for hours a day is a form of
              mind control for which you will have "experiences". It can be an
              interesting experiment, but not sure it is anything beyond brain
              plasticity or normal and natural stuff. Some of it may even be
              bad for you, like doing drugs too often or in too high a dose.

              Some meditation is just open ended with a soft focus in the present,
              as simple as awareness of the breath and body, receptive allowing
              and being, not repressive. I'm not even sure that there is such a
              state where you are meant to always feel 100% good all the time.

              Oprah was pushing The Secret for a while now, yet she continues
              to have weight problems, as do many who I know who believe in
              this or similar Consciousness schemes.

              It would be nice if the solution to all our problems were so easy.

              Nonekster ; )


              brighttigress wrote:

              > Hi Everyone!
              >
              > Laughing here, I was doing "spiritual exercises" and "contemplation"
              for many years before ekult, but I called it "fishing". <gg>
              >
              > Sometimes I'd admit to people that actually, I was just drowning
              worms. Fishing enables you to just sit outdoors relaxing without
              people thinking you're just trying to escape housework. Okay, so
              every so often a fish would bite, and sometimes it was an "active"
              fish so I'd have to work a bit and even stand up to reel it in, but
              mostly I went for catfish, which are very easy to catch. You just
              cast out and leave it there, and just ignore any "bites" for a long
              time, to make sure they've swallowed the hook so you won't lose them.
              >
              > You know, I've wondered and may have even read something somewhere,
              that the way Easterners do the "master" thing is a bit different from
              the way Westerners do it, simply because our cultures are so
              different. Maybe we translate the words they use in different way?
              Like, a lot of Hindus "worship" all those strange gods and give them
              offerings of various kinds. Do they really believe there are really
              "gods" who are part human and part elephant or monkey or whatever, and
              that their "offerings" really mean something to these "gods"? Or are
              they more like not walking under ladders, or any of the many
              superstitious practices Westerners do but really don't believe in?
              >
              > It's almost impossible to spend a lot of time out of doors in nature
              without feeling a deep sense of awe & gratitude for "God's" gifts and
              all of creation. It's impossible to not feel "one" with the Universe,
              with the rocks and trees and sky, and all the critters who pass your
              way. Except maybe mosquitoes. I especially remember two water-snakes
              who'd come swimming across the lake about the same time every night,
              as time passed they seemed to stop and say "hi", it was a really neat
              thing.
              >
              > Okay, so I caught & ate a lot of fish, but I guess that's a part of
              human consciousness. If they were bigger and I was smaller and in the
              water, they'd eat *me*!! I wouldn't be nearly as good as fried
              catfish, though.
              >
              > And once, on a really muggy & humid day when the mosquitoes were
              even more ravenous than usual, making it impossible for me to enjoy
              sitting on a huge rock just "being", I somehow found myself sort of
              turning myself into a rock or something, hard to explain, there was
              nothing I could do about those darned pesky bloodthirsty skeeters
              other than just sort of ignore/accept them, and all of a sudden, they
              stopped biting. There were still a million of them and they were
              still landing on me, but they weren't biting anymore. It was pretty
              cool!! And yes, I *did* sort of feel like I'd merged into the rock.
              I do believe they have a certain level of "consciousness" beyond our
              perception. Life, spirit, whatever...but I've always loved rocks & my
              kids & I would always bring home lots of them from our hikes, but
              after awhile indoors, they seemed to "die" in a way, so I'd return
              them to the woods.
              >
              > Anyway, at this point, my "beliefs" have changed so much since I've
              been out, I'm actually leaning more towards perfectly natural
              "scientific" explanations for things like "experiences", it's just
              perfectly natural brain-stuff.
              >
              > After I left, I looked into Yogananda's Self-Realization Fellowship
              for awhile, yakked with several of them, from old-timers to "newbies",
              and it seemed to me that they got much better "results" than eckists
              did. Yogananda emphasized "God" over "guru", IMO. And their
              "discourses" seemd to have more "meat" in them, and not a lot of the
              irrelevant nonsense in the ekult discourses.
              >
              > I also thought Catholicism's "Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of
              Loyola" were "pure eck".
              >
              > And, I thought the same about an old Christian-centered Edgar Cayce
              study course.
              >
              > Ekult membership & its "spiritual exercises" actually seemed to take
              away from what I'd experienced rather spontaneously before I heard of
              it, and made the mistake of joining.
              > If anything, I ended up with a severe case of spiritual
              constipation, totally clogged up from all that nasty eckanstuff!!!
              >
              > Some of it seemed obviously silly, like the Friday fast....that was
              rough on me because I'd often not realize it was Friday until the day
              was just about over. <gg> And since I usually didn't eat all day
              anyway, fasting was silly - and no way would I give up coffee, the
              elixir of life!! So I chose the "mental" fast, which I also thought
              was a bit silly because weren't we supposed to keep our minds & hearts
              focused on "the mahanta" every day, all day? And to "Be The Hu"?
              >
              > Anyway - just some thoughts here. Oh, one thing I was interested in
              for a long time was Patanjali's yoga, didn't pursue it because it was
              "lower", maybe one of these days I'll get around to looking at it
              more, but some people might be interested in a Yahoo group started
              some years back about it, by a former eckist, I read it for awhile but
              didn't quite have time, let me see if it's still there - yep, it's
              at:

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yoga_Meditation_Truths/

              > So, what I think is that "the truth is out there", just about
              everywhere you look, especially with the internet & its infinite
              amount of information. Some of it's "safe", some you've gotta watch
              out for.
              >
              > I think what it all boils down to is an answer I got from my
              Oriental Philosophy prof some years back - for the life of me, I could
              *not* really "get" the difference between Theraveda and Mahayana
              (don't know if I've got the right words here), and basically just
              wanted a good "passing" answer to use on exams, one "path" is "instant
              enlightment" and the other is working for it, I just couldn't see the
              difference. His answer was *awesome*, IMO - he said that the "active"
              one is to keep busy & give people something to do until you get the
              "instant" enlightment!
              >
              > I think it's quite possible that some people's brains are wired for
              "experiences", and maybe some aren't. But, I also think you can
              affect your individual "wiring", at least to a certain point. And do
              those "experiences" really matter? Sure, they're fun & interesting,
              and they can feel incredibly good & all, but isn't what really matters
              what's in our hearts, and how we live our lives here on earth?
              >
              > I ran across an interesting little "quote" the other day - something
              like if you really want to leave earth, you haven't been here long
              enough.
              >
              > Okay, gotta go, just "killing some time" here, making the transition
              from grocery shopping & errands, winding down, now I've gotta get
              moving and go do the dishes & some laundry.
              >
              > Ho Ho Hugs!!
              >
              > Sharon
              >
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