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Comparison between Eckankar and Sant Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology

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  • drubezarne
    Prometheus and Etznab, this may be of interest and maybe you could add it to the Links area. They could replace some of the dead links. Both sites compare the
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 8, 2008
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      Prometheus and Etznab, this may be of interest and maybe you could add
      it to the Links area. They could replace some of the dead links. Both
      sites compare the Sant Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology with Eckankar's
      version and show the charts side by side.

      On one site, the author says, "Other association of sounds and regions
      seems to be based on Paul Twitchell's writings. Twitchell, who founded
      Eckankar, broke from Radhasoami, although retaining their teachings.
      He then added a whole lot of additional levels. My own impression from
      reading several of his books many years back is that everything good
      that he said can also be found in the Radhasoami teachings (and in
      Julian P. Johnson's The Path of the Masters, which Twitchell copied),
      and his own contributions are probably just assorted astral-physical
      visions and what not. I in no way deny that there are many decent
      people in the Eckanker movement."

      Here are the two links...

      http://www.kheper.net/topics/Sant_Mat/cosmology.html

      and...

      http://www.greatdreams.com/sprtsnds.htm

      Regards
      Liska
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Liska, Yes, Sant Mat which includes Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang Beas have Living Masters too! This is where Twitchell copied most of his ECKankar dogma
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 9, 2008
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        Hello Liska,
        Yes, Sant Mat which includes Radhasoami and
        Ruhani Satsang Beas have Living Masters too!
        This is where Twitchell copied most of his
        ECKankar dogma and cosmology.

        However, I question the validity of these Sant
        Mat religions as well. There's as much myth,
        speculation, and wishful thinking (faith & belief)
        involving higher plane experiences, promises,
        guilts, and fears, here, (and for the Master to
        intervene or to eliminate Karma) as there is with
        ECKankar!

        I agree that there are many decent people who
        have been deceived by ECKankar. However, there
        are also many decent people in other religions
        as well. Not all of them are narrow minded
        fundamentalists, narcissists, and mean-spirited
        hypocrites!

        Prometheus





        drubezarne wrote:
        >
        > Prometheus and Etznab, this may be of interest
        and maybe you could add it to the Links area. They
        could replace some of the dead links. Both sites
        compare the Sant Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology with
        Eckankar's version and show the charts side by side.
        >
        > On one site, the author says, "Other association
        of sounds and regions seems to be based on Paul
        Twitchell's writings. Twitchell, who founded Eckankar,
        broke from Radhasoami, although retaining their
        teachings. He then added a whole lot of additional
        levels. My own impression from reading several of
        his books many years back is that everything good
        that he said can also be found in the Radhasoami
        teachings (and in Julian P. Johnson's The Path of the
        Masters, which Twitchell copied), and his own contributions
        are probably just assorted astral-physical visions and
        what not. I in no way deny that there are many decent
        people in the Eckanker movement."
        >
        Here are the two links...
        >
        http://www.kheper.net/topics/Sant_Mat/cosmology.html
        >
        > and...
        >
        > http://www.greatdreams.com/sprtsnds.htm
        >
        > Regards
        > Liska
        >
      • drubezarne
        Hello Prometheus, Yes, Sant Mat like Eckankar with its Living Master is a cult too. What I find interesting is their recommended time for contemplation, their
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 10, 2008
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          Hello Prometheus,

          Yes, Sant Mat like Eckankar with its Living Master is a cult too. What
          I find interesting is their recommended time for contemplation, their
          Simran, the focus on the third eye and the crown chakra, and their
          techniques for participation with the Sound Current really work.
          Somewhere in their history, someone got it right and taught something
          worthwhile.

          If Paul Twitchell hadn't stolen the spiritual exercises from Sant Mat,
          Eckankar wouldn't have worked for many of us. Of course, he diluted
          Sant Mat's contemplation down to 30 minutes (barely enough time to
          control the mind) and falsely wanted us to focus on him as a Godman.

          It wasn't until I learned when and how to really contemplate,
          according to Sant Mat tradition, that I started having the experiences
          that showed me the fabrications of Eckankar and the false claims of
          its fraudulent master - Klemp. During these contemplations I learned
          there is no master who intercedes between God and Soul, rather it is
          the Supreme Being's presence that is with each individual quietly
          helping them develop into a greater self.

          False masters like Twitchell, Gross, and Klemp laid claim to this
          inner presence by saying they were the ones guiding Soul.

          Regards
          Liska

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Liska,
          > Yes, Sant Mat which includes Radhasoami and
          > Ruhani Satsang Beas have Living Masters too!
          > This is where Twitchell copied most of his
          > ECKankar dogma and cosmology.
          >
          > However, I question the validity of these Sant
          > Mat religions as well. There's as much myth,
          > speculation, and wishful thinking (faith & belief)
          > involving higher plane experiences, promises,
          > guilts, and fears, here, (and for the Master to
          > intervene or to eliminate Karma) as there is with
          > ECKankar!
          >
          > I agree that there are many decent people who
          > have been deceived by ECKankar. However, there
          > are also many decent people in other religions
          > as well. Not all of them are narrow minded
          > fundamentalists, narcissists, and mean-spirited
          > hypocrites!
          >
          > Prometheus
        • Leanne Thompson
          could you tell me more about the contemplations or lead me to the link that you found? Even though sat mant is a cult, the exercises work? Is it  like
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 10, 2008
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            could you tell me more about the contemplations or lead me to the link that you found? Even though sat mant is a cult, the exercises work? Is it  like kandalini yoga from yogi bhajan/
            Thank you
            Leanne

            --- On Wed, 12/10/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
            From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Comparison between Eckankar and Sant Mat/Radhasoami Cosmology
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 6:03 AM

            Hello Prometheus,

            Yes, Sant Mat like Eckankar with its Living Master is a cult too. What
            I find interesting is their recommended time for contemplation, their
            Simran, the focus on the third eye and the crown chakra, and their
            techniques for participation with the Sound Current really work.
            Somewhere in their history, someone got it right and taught something
            worthwhile.

            If Paul Twitchell hadn't stolen the spiritual exercises from Sant Mat,
            Eckankar wouldn't have worked for many of us. Of course, he diluted
            Sant Mat's contemplation down to 30 minutes (barely enough time to
            control the mind) and falsely wanted us to focus on him as a Godman.

            It wasn't until I learned when and how to really contemplate,
            according to Sant Mat tradition, that I started having the experiences
            that showed me the fabrications of Eckankar and the false claims of
            its fraudulent master - Klemp. During these contemplations I learned
            there is no master who intercedes between God and Soul, rather it is
            the Supreme Being's presence that is with each individual quietly
            helping them develop into a greater self.

            False masters like Twitchell, Gross, and Klemp laid claim to this
            inner presence by saying they were the ones guiding Soul.

            Regards
            Liska

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_ 973"
            <prometheus_ 973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Liska,
            > Yes, Sant Mat which includes Radhasoami and
            > Ruhani Satsang Beas have Living Masters too!
            > This is where Twitchell copied most of his
            > ECKankar dogma and cosmology.
            >
            > However, I question the validity of these Sant
            > Mat religions as well. There's as much myth,
            > speculation, and wishful thinking (faith & belief)
            > involving higher plane experiences, promises,
            > guilts, and fears, here, (and for the Master to
            > intervene or to eliminate Karma) as there is with
            > ECKankar!
            >
            > I agree that there are many decent people who
            > have been deceived by ECKankar. However, there
            > are also many decent people in other religions
            > as well. Not all of them are narrow minded
            > fundamentalists, narcissists, and mean-spirited
            > hypocrites!
            >
            > Prometheus


          • drubezarne
            Yes, Leanne. I ll send you an e-mail about it. ... link that you found? Even though sat mant is a cult, the exercises work? Is it  like kandalini yoga from
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 10, 2008
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              Yes, Leanne. I'll send you an e-mail about it.

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Leanne Thompson
              <le_anne_thompson@...> wrote:
              >
              > could you tell me more about the contemplations or lead me to the
              link that you found? Even though sat mant is a cult, the exercises
              work? Is it  like kandalini yoga from yogi bhajan/
              > Thank you
              > Leanne
            • prometheus_973
              Hello All, I thought I d bring this back for another look. Isn t it strange that after 27 years of Klemp that both ECKists and newcomers are still directed to
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 20, 2009
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                Hello All,
                I thought I'd bring this back for another look.
                Isn't it strange that after 27 years of Klemp that
                both ECKists and newcomers are still directed to
                focus upon the Third Eye (a.k.a. 6th chakra, Tisra
                Til, Tenth Door) instead of the higher (highest)
                CROWN Chakra!

                Only in the EK Discourses is the use of the Crown
                Chakra taught. And yet this, too, is only an ASTRAL
                Chakra and a means designed for the chela to meet
                with the Master, in his Radiant Body, on the Astral
                Plane. And, of course, all of this, too, is mentioned
                in "The Path of the Masters" that Twitchell plagiarized
                and used to develop his Westernized sect of Ruhani
                Satsang that he named ECKankar! Even the word
                "Ekankar" came from "The Path of the Masters." Twit
                just added the letter "c."

                Anyway, why is it that Klemp (the most powerful and
                advanced Mahanta ever) can't take newcomers or his
                "experienced" followers beyond the instruction of using
                the Third Eye? Any guesses?

                Prometheus



                drubezarne wrote:

                Hello Prometheus,

                Yes, Sant Mat like Eckankar with its Living Master is a cult too. What
                I find interesting is their recommended time for contemplation, their
                Simran, the focus on the third eye and the crown chakra, and their
                techniques for participation with the Sound Current really work.
                Somewhere in their history, someone got it right and taught something
                worthwhile.

                If Paul Twitchell hadn't stolen the spiritual exercises from Sant Mat,
                Eckankar wouldn't have worked for many of us. Of course, he diluted
                Sant Mat's contemplation down to 30 minutes (barely enough time to
                control the mind) and falsely wanted us to focus on him as a Godman.

                It wasn't until I learned when and how to really contemplate,
                according to Sant Mat tradition, that I started having the experiences
                that showed me the fabrications of Eckankar and the false claims of
                its fraudulent master - Klemp. During these contemplations I learned
                there is no master who intercedes between God and Soul, rather it is
                the Supreme Being's presence that is with each individual quietly
                helping them develop into a greater self.

                False masters like Twitchell, Gross, and Klemp laid claim to this
                inner presence by saying they were the ones guiding Soul.

                Regards
                Liska


                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello Liska,
                > Yes, Sant Mat which includes Radhasoami and
                > Ruhani Satsang Beas have Living Masters too!
                > This is where Twitchell copied most of his
                > ECKankar dogma and cosmology.
                >
                > However, I question the validity of these Sant
                > Mat religions as well. There's as much myth,
                > speculation, and wishful thinking (faith & belief)
                > involving higher plane experiences, promises,
                > guilts, and fears, here, (and for the Master to
                > intervene or to eliminate Karma) as there is with
                > ECKankar!
                >
                > I agree that there are many decent people who
                > have been deceived by ECKankar. However, there
                > are also many decent people in other religions
                > as well. Not all of them are narrow minded
                > fundamentalists, narcissists, and mean-spirited
                > hypocrites!
                >
                > Prometheus
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