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Re: What now?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Ma-li, It appears that you have already joined our ranks! You sound like an old friend where the passage of time and space becomes irrelevant to the
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
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      Hello Ma-li,
      It appears that you have already joined
      our ranks! You sound like an old friend
      where the passage of time and space
      becomes irrelevant to the friendship,
      the journey, and to the connection of Soul.

      I enjoyed reading of your experiences
      and insights too. Yes, I too have mixed
      feelings about flies and rattlesnakes.
      I usually give them fair warning first and
      offer them an out before taking preventative
      (extreme) measures. The thing is it startles
      me, at times, when other (friendly) snakes
      sneak up on me, or I "discover" them. It's
      actually kind of funny, but I scold them
      for scaring me or for me scaring myself!

      Prometheus


      Ma-li wrote:
      Hi Prometheus,

      Thank you for all your wonderful, knowledgeable
      comments. I do appreciate them, and can relate
      to what you said.

      I too wanted to believe all the malarky that was
      being fed to me, and had problems buying into
      what HK was saying. As Eckankar evolved/devolved
      under HK, it seemed to be leaving me with an empty
      feeling. I could get the same stories from any 5th
      grader. I made that comment to another Eckist,
      and was told HK had to make it simpler for those
      just "coming in". If those "coming in" were supposed
      to be already more spiritually advanced than those
      of us who had been there a long time, then why
      dumb it down. Just one more thing that didn't set
      well with me.

      As for the spiritual exercises, apparently I didn't
      do them in an acceptable manner, but that was
      the way that was comfortable to me. I haven't
      done them in quite a while now, and eventually
      will invent my own means of doing spiritual
      contemplation, if need be. I spend a lot of time
      in Nature....gonna go out on a limb here and tell
      you that my entire life has been involved with
      helping animals in need...from the newborn to
      the ancient with special needs that require almost
      constant care. I learned more about love from
      these animals than I ever did from HK, and feel
      blessed to have been given so much unconditional
      love and trust by beings usually untrusting of humans.
      As each one passed over, it broke my heart, but
      I knew they were in a better place. At least they
      had experienced love on this plane, and I'm sure
      it helped their Soul progression too. They were as
      close to me as my own heartbeat, and still are even
      tho' they have gone.

      By giving up this spiritual path, I feel more free
      to be me, and to know and love all life whatever
      the form. Still have to work on the rattlesnakes
      and flies however. lol

      I think I bought into Eckankar for as long as I did
      because it seemed like the right thing to do at the
      time. As the dis-satisfatico grew, I knew I had to
      be true to myself first and foremost. Maybe it was
      the challenge of attaining initiations, I'm not certain.
      I just know that somewhere along the line they ceased
      to matter, and my eyes were opening to see more
      about the spiritual path I was on. Didn't like what
      I saw, but didn't know how to get off the path.
      I have done lots of "outside" reading over the years,
      and that has been instrumental in my eyes being
      opened. Then there was that little sticking point
      that has always galled me........needing a mediator
      to connect with God. If I didn't believe priests,
      ministers etc. could do it, why should the Mahanta
      be any different??? There was no difference, and
      I finally "saw the light".

      My test has been taken, and I've completed it long
      before the others. I have no doubts, and don't need
      to recheck my answers. I won't sit around and wait
      for the others to finish, but will walk out the door
      into a world of fun, love, joy, and totally of my making.
      I am the captain of my own ship now, and feel certain
      I will attain whatever spiritual goals I set for myself.

      I have been feeling guilty about not feeling guilty
      about leaving Eckankar. It was guilt that had me
      wondering what to do next. Now, thanks to all the
      wonderful posts by you, etznab, aftrek, mish, the
      guilt has gone away. You all took the plunge with
      your eyes wide open, went thru the "what now"
      period, and emerged on the other side as full,
      complete human beings in charge of your own
      destinies. May I join your ranks?

      ************************************************
      prometheus wrote:

      Hello Ma-li,
      I thought I'd respond as well. For one
      thing I can't recommend anything to
      read, but I find many of the resources
      listed on this site to be interesting.

      As far as believing these and other sources
      of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
      and everything by the so called "experts." I
      definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
      seems to be selling something for one reason
      or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
      subjective, and is found within by each Soul.

      Ma-li wrote:
      [snip]
      "Would anyone like to share with me how you
      handled it when you decided to leave, and
      especially what did you do about the spiritual
      exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
      Eck Masters never really existed, except in
      writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
      left but God?"

      *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
      many things in ECKankar just didn't make
      sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
      it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
      and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
      every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
      opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
      one dimensional stories didn't help either.
      I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
      my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
      believable to others.

      However, I've always known and had proof of
      Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
      I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
      of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
      and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
      amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
      or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
      long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
      because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
      in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
      HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
      can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a
      Contentment that I could never achieve while under
      the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
      up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
      new is it?

      "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
      beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
      the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
      the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
      warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
      IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
      the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
      IT IS ME, and I AM IT."

      *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
      and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
      observing Nature is very contemplative and
      peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
      The past tunes take one back to one's youth
      and beyond and into other times as does reading
      about or watching history on TV. It's good to
      know about how we became who we are and
      what we think we are in order to know more
      about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.

      "All this being said, I don't know what to do
      about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
      from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
      and need to make a choice about what to do next.
      If someone would care to share their experiences
      and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
      can use my private email if you'd prefer."

      *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
      Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
      buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
      because of friends and/or the promise of God-
      Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
      giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
      I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
      give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
      after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
      I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
      and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
      many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
      a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
      me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
      reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
      same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!

      [snip]
      Ma-li (also) wrote:
      "...Then the doubts and mental processes begin
      working until he's got himself almost convinced
      he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
      to go back and change answers because he also
      feels he did the best he could.

      What does he do to fill the empty space?"

      *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
      (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
      it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
      Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
      middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
      Masters in the making.

      When one follows another they give up their ability
      to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
      give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
      a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
      Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
      Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
      No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.

      Prometheus
    • drubezarne
      Hi Leanne, I think Ford s statements about Hu and Aum might be valid here. In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson, he says... I would ven­ture that
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 7, 2008
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        Hi Leanne, I think Ford's statements about Hu and Aum might be valid here.

        In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson, he says...

        "I would ven­ture that God has no pref­er­ence and al­so that all
        sounds and words are part of ALL THAT IS, and serve equal­ly well in
        gar­ner­ing God's at­ten­tion."

        and...

        "The im­por­tant point is that all sounds or mantras can en­able the
        in­di­vid­ual to tran­scend the phys­ical di­men­sion and
        ex­pe­ri­ence the ec­stat­ic states and the in­ner planes...They all
        work and can en­able the in­divid­ual to hear the re­mark­able and
        awe-in­spir­ing sounds of the in­ner worlds. As­crib­ing greater
        mag­ic to one sound or mantra over an­oth­er is much like ar­gu­ing
        whose God is great­est. It is a mean­ing­less de­bate for ev­ery­thing
        is part of the ONE. Fur­ther, when the prac­ti­tion­er has had some
        ex­pe­ri­ence with these mantras and the in­ner ex­pe­ri­ences that
        follow, she will come to the re­al­iza­tion that these are not
        out­side sounds; they are a part of her."

        and...

        "The Va­lid­ity of Spir­itu­al Ex­er­cis­es. The ba­sic spir­itu­al
        ex­er­cise of Eck, which Paul called "the easy way," is al­so the
        ba­sic ex­er­cise of the Shabd Yo­ga tra­di­tion, and, as such,
        car­ries with it the in­trin­sic va­lid­ity of this prac­tice in the
        Yo­ga tradi­tion. In these teach­ings, the HU is sung "Hooooooo,"
        where­as in Eck­ankar, it is sung "Hu­uu­uu­uuu" or "hugh" — Paul's
        ef­fort to make it unique. The dif­fer­ence is of no re­al
        sig­nif­icance. Each sound will work and should be con­tin­ued if it
        works for you."

        As to Ek Onkar; it is a Sikh term that means "God is One." Julian
        Johnson's Path of the Masters mentions it. If you downloaded the .pdf
        book, you can do a search for it in Acrobat.

        Regards,
        Liska

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Leanne Thompson
        <le_anne_thompson@...> wrote:
        >
        > Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar? I use HU-OM or
        other sanskrit words.
        >  
        > BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found EK OM KAR. I
        think it was a mantra or something like  that. Has anyone heard of that?
        >  
        > Thanks
        > Leanne
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Liska and All, It s interesting that Ford said, They all work and can enable the individual to hear the remarkable and awe-inspiring sounds of the INNER
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 7, 2008
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          Hello Liska and All,
          It's interesting that Ford said,
          "They all work and can enable
          the individual to hear the remarkable
          and awe-inspiring sounds of the INNER
          WORLDS. Ascribing greater MAGIC to
          one sound or mantra over another is
          much like arguing whose God is greatest."
          [MY CAPS]

          So, is Ford saying that these are Magical
          sounds/mantras that have "intrinsic validity."
          Isn't that a contradiction of terms? Or, is
          he saying that most people see these as
          magical words/sounds, but that these
          have "intrinsic validity" in Shabd Yoga?
          However, does Shabd Yoga have validity?
          How much or with what? BTW- I wonder
          which planes or "inner worlds" Ford was
          referring to?

          IMO it does seem that there is something
          different with the vibratory rate of this
          sound/mantra (HU) that makes it more
          unique than the other (AUM), or Not!
          Perhaps there are Universal sounds/mantras,
          as well as, more specific ones that match
          or enhance each person's/Soul's vibratory
          rate of consciousness. And, this is why one
          sound works better for one person than with
          another person.

          The other quote you gave by Ford was:

          "The Validity of Spiritual Exercises.

          The basic spiritual exercise of Eck, which Paul
          called "the easy way," is also the basic exercise
          of the Shabd Yoga tradition, and, as such, carries
          with it the INTRINSIC VALIDITY of this practice
          in the Yoga tradition. In these teachings, the
          HU is sung "Hooooooo," where as in Eckankar,
          it is sung "Huuuuuuu" or "hugh." [MY CAPS]

          Personally, I often have trouble accepting any
          promises and beliefs from any religion as valid
          and, especially, from those religions that have
          "Living Masters" who have set themselves up as
          Masters/Godmen/Saviours/Prophets.

          It is interesting about the HU being sung as
          "Hooooooo" (who) and "Huuuuuuu" (hue/hugh).

          I knew ECKists who would sing HU as "Hooooooo"
          (who)! It was very strange and they sang loud!!!
          I never did ask them why they did this, but they
          believed they were part of Harry's inner (Inner)
          Circle and were more special than most of his
          RESAs. They had a small following at the major
          EK Seminars and were very aloof towards the
          RESA structure and toward rules and guidelines
          in general. They usually ignored these or acted
          As If they had no knowledge of these ESC approved
          procedures. Delusion runs rampant in ECKankar!

          Prometheus



          Liska wrote:
          Hi Leanne, I think Ford's statements about
          Hu and Aum might be valid here.

          In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson,
          he says...

          "I would venture that God has no preference
          and also that all sounds and words are part
          of ALL THAT IS, and serve equally well in
          garnering God's attention."

          and...

          "The important point is that all sounds or
          mantras can enable the individual to transcend
          the physical dimension and experience the
          ecstatic states and the inner planes... They
          all work and can enable the individual to hear
          the remarkable and awe-inspiring sounds
          of the inner worlds. Ascribing greater magic
          to one sound or mantra over another is much
          like arguing whose God is greatest. It is a
          meaningless debate for everything is part of
          the ONE. Further, when the practitioner has
          had some experience with these mantras and
          the inner experiences that follow, she will
          come to the realization that these are not
          outside sounds; they are a part of her."

          and...

          "The Validity of Spiritual Exercises. The basic
          spiritual exercise of Eck, which Paul called
          "the easy way," is also the basic exercise of
          the Shabd Yoga tradition, and, as such, carries
          with it the INTRINSIC VALIDITY of this practice
          in the Yoga tradition. In these teachings, the
          HU is sung "Hooooooo," where as in Eckankar,
          it is sung "Huuuuuuuu" or "hugh" — Paul's
          effort to make it unique. The difference is of
          no real significance. Each sound will work and
          should be continued if it works for you."

          ME: [My Caps]

          As to Ek Onkar; it is a Sikh term that means
          "God is One." Julian Johnson's Path of the Masters
          mentions it. If you downloaded the .pdf
          book, you can do a search for it in Acrobat.

          Regards,
          Liska


          Leanne wrote:

          Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar?
          I use HU-OM or other sanskrit words.

          BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found
          EK OM KAR. I think it was a mantra or something like
          that. Has anyone heard of that?

          Thanks
          Leanne
          >
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