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Re: ECKankar Trivia Timeline Reloaded

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab, A year earlier, the first week of March 1980, my predecessor Darwin Gross, paid me a visit in the camera department at the ECKankar Office in
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 6, 2008
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      Hello Etznab,

      "A year earlier, the first week of March
      1980, my predecessor Darwin Gross,
      paid me a visit in the camera department
      at the ECKankar Office in Menlo Park,
      California. The office had moved to
      California in 1975. I was seated on a
      stool by the light table opaqueing (sic)
      negatives that were to be used in making
      plates for the printing press. Gross leaned
      against the other table, made a few pleasant
      remarks, then asked me to accompany him
      into the dark room, which was soundproof."
      [Soul Travelers of the Far Country, Copyright
      1987, CH.7, pg.129]

      It should be noted that Klemp worked daily
      in this Darkroom (Soundproofed) Lab. Of course,
      there is a red light on in the darkroom when
      film is being developed, but that's not the point
      I was making.

      The point is that in ECK these subtle revelations
      and details are referred to as "Golden Tongued
      Wisdom" and as "Waking Dreams!" Here, the future
      Mahanta (Klemp) was not only chosen by a person
      who turned out to be a "Black Magician," but Klemp,
      also, worked in a place that was absent of the ECK
      (the LIGHT and SOUND). Now, is this a coincidence?
      I was always told that there are No Coincidences
      in ECK! With Klemp, however, the Catch-22 rule
      seems to supersede Golden Tongued Wisdom and
      Waking Dreams!

      In Klemp's "Autobiography of a Modern Prophet"
      on pages 408-409 (copyright 2000) Klemp states
      that he was able to discuss the transition again,
      with Gross, on September 16, 1981.

      "The Living ECK Master sat huddled on the stool,
      his brows knit in thought. 'We really shouldn't
      talk about it here.' He shot a glance at the open
      door, where anyone might have walked in at any
      moment. 'We could go into the DARKROOM,' I
      suggested. He hesitated, then said, 'All right.'"

      This is a different account of who suggested going
      into the soundproofed darkroom than what Klemp
      gave in 1987. Notice that Klemp says that Darwin
      "hesitated" when Klemp suggested they go into
      the "DARKROOM" to discuss the passing of the
      Rod in just 36 days!

      Prometheus


      ************************************************
      Etznab wrote:

      Prometheus wrote:
      "For example, I see the meetings between
      HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in
      a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the
      transition, as being relevant to a timeline.
      IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant."

      Prometheus,

      I had something on the timeline already:

      1980 - Plans to Step Aside / Darwin Gross - March 1980:

      "[....] A year earlier, the first week of March 1980, my pred-
      ecessor as the spiritual leader of ECKANKAR, Darwin Gross,
      had paid me [Harold Klemp] a visit in the camera department
      at the ECKANKAR Office in Menlo Park, California. The office
      had moved to California in 1975. [....] Amid neatly ordered trays
      of developer, stop bath, and fix, boxes of film and camera equip-
      ment all around us, Gross told of his plans to step aside as the
      Living ECK Master. Would I accept the position as his successor?
      [....]" [Based on: Soul Travelers Of The Far Country, by Harold
      Klemp, copyright 1987, pp. 129-130]

      *****************************************************

      I wonder if it was totally dark in there. Isn't there
      a red light which can illuminate a dark room without
      exposing (harming) any film?

      Etznab


      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Etznab,
      > I think that an EK Timeline would be
      > nice to see and to have on hand. There
      > might be things that one could add
      > or insert into a Timeline depending
      > on what is seen as relevant either by
      > those contributing or by those reading
      > it. That's up to you, however, since
      > it's your project.
      >
      > For example, I see the meetings between
      > HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in
      > a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the
      > transition, as being relevant to a timeline.
      > IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant.
      >
      > And, Gross gave Klemp his 7th Initiation
      > on May 23, 1980 and the 8th on Jan, 27,
      > 1981 and the 9th on July 22, 1981. [Soul
      > Travelers of the Far Country, pages 139,
      > 140, 186]
      >
      > Of course, Gross gave Klemp the 12th on
      > Oct. 22, 1981.
      >
      > Also, I would hope that our feedback
      > would be seen as constructive criticisms
      > that would/could possibly benefit the project.
      >
      > Anyway, it would be nice to see what you
      > have to date.
      >
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > Etznab wrote:
      > Was going over my old Eckankar "Trivia"
      > Timeline and I realized there is much more
      > on it now compared to the time it was last
      > in the public domain. In other words, it's
      > not the same.
      >
      > What I'm probably going to do is reload
      > the timeline in stages, starting about the
      > earliest compiled records. It won't be the
      > same as years ago, because I've added other
      > trivial recorded events - including lineage
      > for other teachings and masters as well.
      >
      > For those, and other various reasons, I
      > decided to change the name to:
      >
      > Legacy of Lineage - A Timecapsule Timeline
      > of *Eckankar "Trivia" & More
      >
      > *******************************************
      >
      > It won't be a file, but rather a link, I
      > could share with E.S.A. I'm also considering
      > sharing it with A.R.E. and others because it
      > will probably be something that others could
      > criticize and contribute to in the future.
      >
      > The first section will probably be ready
      > and loaded soon.
      >
      > Etznab
      >
    • aftrek
      Hi Prometheus and everyone, There is a statement in the Eck-Vidya about whatsover is born of a moment has the qualities of that moment: There is one great
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 7, 2008
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        Hi Prometheus and everyone,

        There is a statement in the Eck-Vidya about whatsover is born of a
        moment has the qualities of that moment:

        "There is one great rule that goes in the ECK-Vidya. 'Whosoever, and
        whatsoever is born or done at a given moment of time has the
        qualities of that moment of time.'
        "We have to abide by this rule for it gives each of us that
        opportunity to examine ourselves minutely and gain new, sharp
        insights into one's own particular nature at all levels of
        existence. Knowledge of the prevailing qualities at birth or the
        particular event provides answers to many and usually most
        previously baffling questions about one's own self, and those within
        his own environment."
        (Eck-Vidya, IWP, 1978, pp29-30)

        Presumabley PT's take on astrology.

        If applied to that darkroom meeting what can one conclude? The
        qualities of the meeting include darkness and secrecy. Is this yet
        another example of where the Eckankar implodes on the hipocrisy of
        its own contradictory dogma! Viz:

        If the Eck-Vidya rule is true then it must apply to that meeting and
        HK as future LEM.
        If false than what else is false in the teachings?


        aftrek


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Etznab,
        >
        > "A year earlier, the first week of March
        > 1980, my predecessor Darwin Gross,
        > paid me a visit in the camera department
        > at the ECKankar Office in Menlo Park,
        > California. The office had moved to
        > California in 1975. I was seated on a
        > stool by the light table opaqueing (sic)
        > negatives that were to be used in making
        > plates for the printing press. Gross leaned
        > against the other table, made a few pleasant
        > remarks, then asked me to accompany him
        > into the dark room, which was soundproof."
        > [Soul Travelers of the Far Country, Copyright
        > 1987, CH.7, pg.129]
        >
        > It should be noted that Klemp worked daily
        > in this Darkroom (Soundproofed) Lab. Of course,
        > there is a red light on in the darkroom when
        > film is being developed, but that's not the point
        > I was making.
        >
        > The point is that in ECK these subtle revelations
        > and details are referred to as "Golden Tongued
        > Wisdom" and as "Waking Dreams!" Here, the future
        > Mahanta (Klemp) was not only chosen by a person
        > who turned out to be a "Black Magician," but Klemp,
        > also, worked in a place that was absent of the ECK
        > (the LIGHT and SOUND). Now, is this a coincidence?
        > I was always told that there are No Coincidences
        > in ECK! With Klemp, however, the Catch-22 rule
        > seems to supersede Golden Tongued Wisdom and
        > Waking Dreams!
        >
        > In Klemp's "Autobiography of a Modern Prophet"
        > on pages 408-409 (copyright 2000) Klemp states
        > that he was able to discuss the transition again,
        > with Gross, on September 16, 1981.
        >
        > "The Living ECK Master sat huddled on the stool,
        > his brows knit in thought. 'We really shouldn't
        > talk about it here.' He shot a glance at the open
        > door, where anyone might have walked in at any
        > moment. 'We could go into the DARKROOM,' I
        > suggested. He hesitated, then said, 'All right.'"
        >
        > This is a different account of who suggested going
        > into the soundproofed darkroom than what Klemp
        > gave in 1987. Notice that Klemp says that Darwin
        > "hesitated" when Klemp suggested they go into
        > the "DARKROOM" to discuss the passing of the
        > Rod in just 36 days!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > ************************************************
        > Etznab wrote:
        >
        > Prometheus wrote:
        > "For example, I see the meetings between
        > HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in
        > a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the
        > transition, as being relevant to a timeline.
        > IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant."
        >
        > Prometheus,
        >
        > I had something on the timeline already:
        >
        > 1980 - Plans to Step Aside / Darwin Gross - March 1980:
        >
        > "[....] A year earlier, the first week of March 1980, my pred-
        > ecessor as the spiritual leader of ECKANKAR, Darwin Gross,
        > had paid me [Harold Klemp] a visit in the camera department
        > at the ECKANKAR Office in Menlo Park, California. The office
        > had moved to California in 1975. [....] Amid neatly ordered trays
        > of developer, stop bath, and fix, boxes of film and camera equip-
        > ment all around us, Gross told of his plans to step aside as the
        > Living ECK Master. Would I accept the position as his successor?
        > [....]" [Based on: Soul Travelers Of The Far Country, by Harold
        > Klemp, copyright 1987, pp. 129-130]
        >
        > *****************************************************
        >
        > I wonder if it was totally dark in there. Isn't there
        > a red light which can illuminate a dark room without
        > exposing (harming) any film?
        >
        > Etznab
        >
      • prometheus_973
        When one looks at what Klemp wrote about Darwin in 1987 and, again, in 2000 there is an obvious difference. The KAL agent and Black Magician, Klemp, was the
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 7, 2008
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          When one looks at what Klemp wrote
          about Darwin in 1987 and, again, in
          2000 there is an obvious difference.

          The KAL agent and Black Magician,
          Klemp, was the one working in a
          Soundproof Darkroom at the ESC,
          not Gross! The connotation and
          symbolism associated with these
          facts should Not be overlooked by
          ECKists any longer!

          In Klemp's 2000 Copyright of his Autobiography
          IT WAS KLEMP'S SUGGESTION to Darwin that
          they go inside the "darkroom." When Darwin
          heard that it was a "darkroom" he "hesitated."
          Let's face it, this was the LEM/Mahanta (DG)
          wanting to privately discuss the passing of the
          Rod of ECK Power. But, it was Klemp that chose
          a room that was absent of Light and Sound.
          Thus, the room symbolized an absence of the
          ECK and, therefore, the room symbolized the
          Negative force of the KAL!

          It's also interesting that in Klemp's "Autobiography"
          HK leaves out the fact that this Darkroom Lab,
          that he worked in on a daily basis, was previously
          Soundproofed! However, in HK's "Soul Travelers of
          the Far Country" Klemp mentions this fact in Chapter
          7. Why did Klemp omit this Soundproofing detail in
          his Autobiography, unless, HK now (years later) saw
          the negative implications and the symbolism behind
          this fact.

          The room Klemp worked in was blocking out the
          Light and Sound (the ECK)! Klemp was attempting
          to cover-up these facts with a rewrite, except,
          he mentions that Darwin "hesitated" to go into
          that room to discuss the transition. Oops!
          [Autobiography of a Modern Prophet, pg. 409]

          Darwin was setup by Klemp as the bad guy! But,
          the real truth and facts, in Klemp's own words,
          show that the real Black Magician was Klemp!

          Where else, but a Soundproof Darkroom at the
          ESC, would be a better place for a Black Magician
          and KAL agent to work his magic on unsuspecting
          ECKists!

          Prometheus


          Prometheus wrote:
          "A year earlier, the first week of March
          1980, my predecessor Darwin Gross,
          paid me a visit in the camera department
          at the ECKankar Office in Menlo Park,
          California. The office had moved to
          California in 1975. I was seated on a
          stool by the light table opaqueing (sic)
          negatives that were to be used in making
          plates for the printing press. Gross leaned
          against the other table, made a few pleasant
          remarks, then asked me to accompany him
          into the dark room, which was soundproof."
          [Soul Travelers of the Far Country, Copyright
          1987, CH.7, pg.129]

          It should be noted that Klemp worked daily
          in this Darkroom (Soundproofed) Lab. Of course,
          there is a red light on in the darkroom when
          film is being developed, but that's not the point
          I was making.

          The point is that in ECK these subtle revelations
          and details are referred to as "Golden Tongued
          Wisdom" and as "Waking Dreams!" Here, the future
          Mahanta (Klemp) was not only chosen by a person
          who turned out to be a "Black Magician," but Klemp,
          also, worked in a place that was absent of the ECK
          (the LIGHT and SOUND). Now, is this a coincidence?
          I was always told that there are No Coincidences
          in ECK! With Klemp, however, the Catch-22 rule
          seems to supersede Golden Tongued Wisdom and
          Waking Dreams!

          In Klemp's "Autobiography of a Modern Prophet"
          on pages 408-409 (copyright 2000) Klemp states
          that he was able to discuss the transition again,
          with Gross, on September 16, 1981.

          "The Living ECK Master sat huddled on the stool,
          his brows knit in thought. 'We really shouldn't
          talk about it here.' He shot a glance at the open
          door, where anyone might have walked in at any
          moment. 'We could go into the DARKROOM,' I
          suggested. He hesitated, then said, 'All right.'"

          This is a different account of who suggested going
          into the soundproofed darkroom than what Klemp
          gave in 1987. Notice that Klemp says that Darwin
          "hesitated" when Klemp suggested they go into
          the "DARKROOM" to discuss the passing of the
          Rod in just 36 days!

          Prometheus


          ************************************************
          Etznab wrote:

          Prometheus wrote:
          "For example, I see the meetings between
          HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in
          a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the
          transition, as being relevant to a timeline.
          IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant."

          Prometheus,

          I had something on the timeline already:

          1980 - Plans to Step Aside / Darwin Gross - March 1980:

          "[....] A year earlier, the first week of March 1980, my pred-
          ecessor as the spiritual leader of ECKANKAR, Darwin Gross,
          had paid me [Harold Klemp] a visit in the camera department
          at the ECKANKAR Office in Menlo Park, California. The office
          had moved to California in 1975. [....] Amid neatly ordered trays
          of developer, stop bath, and fix, boxes of film and camera equip-
          ment all around us, Gross told of his plans to step aside as the
          Living ECK Master. Would I accept the position as his successor?
          [....]" [Based on: Soul Travelers Of The Far Country, by Harold
          Klemp, copyright 1987, pp. 129-130]

          *****************************************************

          I wonder if it was totally dark in there. Isn't there
          a red light which can illuminate a dark room without
          exposing (harming) any film?

          Etznab


          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello Etznab,
          > I think that an EK Timeline would be
          > nice to see and to have on hand. There
          > might be things that one could add
          > or insert into a Timeline depending
          > on what is seen as relevant either by
          > those contributing or by those reading
          > it. That's up to you, however, since
          > it's your project.
          >
          > For example, I see the meetings between
          > HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in
          > a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the
          > transition, as being relevant to a timeline.
          > IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant.
          >
          > And, Gross gave Klemp his 7th Initiation
          > on May 23, 1980 and the 8th on Jan, 27,
          > 1981 and the 9th on July 22, 1981. [Soul
          > Travelers of the Far Country, pages 139,
          > 140, 186]
          >
          > Of course, Gross gave Klemp the 12th on
          > Oct. 22, 1981.
          >
          > Also, I would hope that our feedback
          > would be seen as constructive criticisms
          > that would/could possibly benefit the project.
          >
          > Anyway, it would be nice to see what you
          > have to date.
          >
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > Etznab wrote:
          > Was going over my old Eckankar "Trivia"
          > Timeline and I realized there is much more
          > on it now compared to the time it was last
          > in the public domain. In other words, it's
          > not the same.
          >
          > What I'm probably going to do is reload
          > the timeline in stages, starting about the
          > earliest compiled records. It won't be the
          > same as years ago, because I've added other
          > trivial recorded events - including lineage
          > for other teachings and masters as well.
          >
          > For those, and other various reasons, I
          > decided to change the name to:
          >
          > Legacy of Lineage - A Timecapsule Timeline
          > of *Eckankar "Trivia" & More
          >
          > *******************************************
          >
          > It won't be a file, but rather a link, I
          > could share with E.S.A. I'm also considering
          > sharing it with A.R.E. and others because it
          > will probably be something that others could
          > criticize and contribute to in the future.
          >
          > The first section will probably be ready
          > and loaded soon.
          >
          > Etznab
          >
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