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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: ECKankar Trivia Timeline Reloaded

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  • etznab@aol.com
    For example, I see the meetings between HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in a Sound Proof Dark Room, to plan the transition, as being relevant to a
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 6, 2008
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      "For example, I see the meetings between
      HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in
      a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the
      transition, as being relevant to a timeline.
      IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant."

      Prometheus,

      I had something on the timeline already:

      1980 - Plans to Step Aside / Darwin Gross - March 1980:

      "[....] A year earlier, the first week of March 1980, my pred-
      ecessor as the spiritual leader of ECKANKAR, Darwin Gross,
      had paid me [Harold Klemp] a visit in the camera department
      at the ECKANKAR Office in Menlo Park, California. The office
      had moved to California in 1975. [....] Amid neatly ordered trays
      of developer, stop bath, and fix, boxes of film and camera equip-
      ment all around us, Gross told of his plans to step aside as the
      Living ECK Master. Would I accept the position as his successor?
      [....]" [Based on: Soul Travelers Of The Far Country, by Harold
      Klemp, copyright 1987, pp. 129-130]

      *****************************************************

      I wonder if it was totally dark in there. Isn't there a red light
      which can illuminate a dark room without exposing (harming)
      any film?

      Etznab

      -----Original Message-----
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 1:23 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: ECKankar Trivia Timeline
      Reloaded



      Hello Etznab,

      I think that an EK Timeline would be

      nice t
      o see and to have on hand. There

      might be things that one could add

      or insert into a Timeline depending

      on what is seen as relevant either by

      those contributing or by those reading

      it. That's up to you, however, since

      it's your project.



      For example, I see the meetings between

      HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in

      a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the

      transition, as being relevant to a timeline.

      IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant.



      And, Gross gave Klemp his 7th Initiation

      on May 23, 1980 and the 8th on Jan, 27,

      1981 and the 9th on July 22, 1981. [Soul

      Travelers of the Far Country, pages 139,

      140, 186]



      Of course, Gross gave Klemp the 12th on

      Oct. 22, 1981.



      Also, I would hope that our feedback

      would be seen as constructive criticisms

      that would/could possibly benefit the project.



      Anyway, it would be nice to see what you

      have to date.



      Prometheus



      Etznab wrote:

      Was going over my old Eckankar "Trivia"

      Timeline and I realized there is much more

      on it now compared to the time it was last

      in the public domain. In other words, it's

      not the same.



      What I'm probably going to do is reload

      the timeline in stages, starting about the

      earliest compiled records. It won't be the

      same as year
      s ago, because I've added other

      trivial recorded events - including lineage

      for other teachings and masters as well.



      For those, and other various reasons, I

      decided to change the name to:



      Legacy of Lineage - A Timecapsule Timeline

      of *Eckankar "Trivia" & More



      *******************************************



      It won't be a file, but rather a link, I

      could share with E.S.A. I'm also considering

      sharing it with A.R.E. and others because it

      will probably be something that others could

      criticize and contribute to in the future.



      The first section will probably be ready

      and loaded soon.



      Etznab
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab, A year earlier, the first week of March 1980, my predecessor Darwin Gross, paid me a visit in the camera department at the ECKankar Office in
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 6, 2008
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        Hello Etznab,

        "A year earlier, the first week of March
        1980, my predecessor Darwin Gross,
        paid me a visit in the camera department
        at the ECKankar Office in Menlo Park,
        California. The office had moved to
        California in 1975. I was seated on a
        stool by the light table opaqueing (sic)
        negatives that were to be used in making
        plates for the printing press. Gross leaned
        against the other table, made a few pleasant
        remarks, then asked me to accompany him
        into the dark room, which was soundproof."
        [Soul Travelers of the Far Country, Copyright
        1987, CH.7, pg.129]

        It should be noted that Klemp worked daily
        in this Darkroom (Soundproofed) Lab. Of course,
        there is a red light on in the darkroom when
        film is being developed, but that's not the point
        I was making.

        The point is that in ECK these subtle revelations
        and details are referred to as "Golden Tongued
        Wisdom" and as "Waking Dreams!" Here, the future
        Mahanta (Klemp) was not only chosen by a person
        who turned out to be a "Black Magician," but Klemp,
        also, worked in a place that was absent of the ECK
        (the LIGHT and SOUND). Now, is this a coincidence?
        I was always told that there are No Coincidences
        in ECK! With Klemp, however, the Catch-22 rule
        seems to supersede Golden Tongued Wisdom and
        Waking Dreams!

        In Klemp's "Autobiography of a Modern Prophet"
        on pages 408-409 (copyright 2000) Klemp states
        that he was able to discuss the transition again,
        with Gross, on September 16, 1981.

        "The Living ECK Master sat huddled on the stool,
        his brows knit in thought. 'We really shouldn't
        talk about it here.' He shot a glance at the open
        door, where anyone might have walked in at any
        moment. 'We could go into the DARKROOM,' I
        suggested. He hesitated, then said, 'All right.'"

        This is a different account of who suggested going
        into the soundproofed darkroom than what Klemp
        gave in 1987. Notice that Klemp says that Darwin
        "hesitated" when Klemp suggested they go into
        the "DARKROOM" to discuss the passing of the
        Rod in just 36 days!

        Prometheus


        ************************************************
        Etznab wrote:

        Prometheus wrote:
        "For example, I see the meetings between
        HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in
        a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the
        transition, as being relevant to a timeline.
        IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant."

        Prometheus,

        I had something on the timeline already:

        1980 - Plans to Step Aside / Darwin Gross - March 1980:

        "[....] A year earlier, the first week of March 1980, my pred-
        ecessor as the spiritual leader of ECKANKAR, Darwin Gross,
        had paid me [Harold Klemp] a visit in the camera department
        at the ECKANKAR Office in Menlo Park, California. The office
        had moved to California in 1975. [....] Amid neatly ordered trays
        of developer, stop bath, and fix, boxes of film and camera equip-
        ment all around us, Gross told of his plans to step aside as the
        Living ECK Master. Would I accept the position as his successor?
        [....]" [Based on: Soul Travelers Of The Far Country, by Harold
        Klemp, copyright 1987, pp. 129-130]

        *****************************************************

        I wonder if it was totally dark in there. Isn't there
        a red light which can illuminate a dark room without
        exposing (harming) any film?

        Etznab


        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello Etznab,
        > I think that an EK Timeline would be
        > nice to see and to have on hand. There
        > might be things that one could add
        > or insert into a Timeline depending
        > on what is seen as relevant either by
        > those contributing or by those reading
        > it. That's up to you, however, since
        > it's your project.
        >
        > For example, I see the meetings between
        > HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in
        > a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the
        > transition, as being relevant to a timeline.
        > IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant.
        >
        > And, Gross gave Klemp his 7th Initiation
        > on May 23, 1980 and the 8th on Jan, 27,
        > 1981 and the 9th on July 22, 1981. [Soul
        > Travelers of the Far Country, pages 139,
        > 140, 186]
        >
        > Of course, Gross gave Klemp the 12th on
        > Oct. 22, 1981.
        >
        > Also, I would hope that our feedback
        > would be seen as constructive criticisms
        > that would/could possibly benefit the project.
        >
        > Anyway, it would be nice to see what you
        > have to date.
        >
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > Etznab wrote:
        > Was going over my old Eckankar "Trivia"
        > Timeline and I realized there is much more
        > on it now compared to the time it was last
        > in the public domain. In other words, it's
        > not the same.
        >
        > What I'm probably going to do is reload
        > the timeline in stages, starting about the
        > earliest compiled records. It won't be the
        > same as years ago, because I've added other
        > trivial recorded events - including lineage
        > for other teachings and masters as well.
        >
        > For those, and other various reasons, I
        > decided to change the name to:
        >
        > Legacy of Lineage - A Timecapsule Timeline
        > of *Eckankar "Trivia" & More
        >
        > *******************************************
        >
        > It won't be a file, but rather a link, I
        > could share with E.S.A. I'm also considering
        > sharing it with A.R.E. and others because it
        > will probably be something that others could
        > criticize and contribute to in the future.
        >
        > The first section will probably be ready
        > and loaded soon.
        >
        > Etznab
        >
      • aftrek
        Hi Prometheus and everyone, There is a statement in the Eck-Vidya about whatsover is born of a moment has the qualities of that moment: There is one great
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 7, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Prometheus and everyone,

          There is a statement in the Eck-Vidya about whatsover is born of a
          moment has the qualities of that moment:

          "There is one great rule that goes in the ECK-Vidya. 'Whosoever, and
          whatsoever is born or done at a given moment of time has the
          qualities of that moment of time.'
          "We have to abide by this rule for it gives each of us that
          opportunity to examine ourselves minutely and gain new, sharp
          insights into one's own particular nature at all levels of
          existence. Knowledge of the prevailing qualities at birth or the
          particular event provides answers to many and usually most
          previously baffling questions about one's own self, and those within
          his own environment."
          (Eck-Vidya, IWP, 1978, pp29-30)

          Presumabley PT's take on astrology.

          If applied to that darkroom meeting what can one conclude? The
          qualities of the meeting include darkness and secrecy. Is this yet
          another example of where the Eckankar implodes on the hipocrisy of
          its own contradictory dogma! Viz:

          If the Eck-Vidya rule is true then it must apply to that meeting and
          HK as future LEM.
          If false than what else is false in the teachings?


          aftrek


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Etznab,
          >
          > "A year earlier, the first week of March
          > 1980, my predecessor Darwin Gross,
          > paid me a visit in the camera department
          > at the ECKankar Office in Menlo Park,
          > California. The office had moved to
          > California in 1975. I was seated on a
          > stool by the light table opaqueing (sic)
          > negatives that were to be used in making
          > plates for the printing press. Gross leaned
          > against the other table, made a few pleasant
          > remarks, then asked me to accompany him
          > into the dark room, which was soundproof."
          > [Soul Travelers of the Far Country, Copyright
          > 1987, CH.7, pg.129]
          >
          > It should be noted that Klemp worked daily
          > in this Darkroom (Soundproofed) Lab. Of course,
          > there is a red light on in the darkroom when
          > film is being developed, but that's not the point
          > I was making.
          >
          > The point is that in ECK these subtle revelations
          > and details are referred to as "Golden Tongued
          > Wisdom" and as "Waking Dreams!" Here, the future
          > Mahanta (Klemp) was not only chosen by a person
          > who turned out to be a "Black Magician," but Klemp,
          > also, worked in a place that was absent of the ECK
          > (the LIGHT and SOUND). Now, is this a coincidence?
          > I was always told that there are No Coincidences
          > in ECK! With Klemp, however, the Catch-22 rule
          > seems to supersede Golden Tongued Wisdom and
          > Waking Dreams!
          >
          > In Klemp's "Autobiography of a Modern Prophet"
          > on pages 408-409 (copyright 2000) Klemp states
          > that he was able to discuss the transition again,
          > with Gross, on September 16, 1981.
          >
          > "The Living ECK Master sat huddled on the stool,
          > his brows knit in thought. 'We really shouldn't
          > talk about it here.' He shot a glance at the open
          > door, where anyone might have walked in at any
          > moment. 'We could go into the DARKROOM,' I
          > suggested. He hesitated, then said, 'All right.'"
          >
          > This is a different account of who suggested going
          > into the soundproofed darkroom than what Klemp
          > gave in 1987. Notice that Klemp says that Darwin
          > "hesitated" when Klemp suggested they go into
          > the "DARKROOM" to discuss the passing of the
          > Rod in just 36 days!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > ************************************************
          > Etznab wrote:
          >
          > Prometheus wrote:
          > "For example, I see the meetings between
          > HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in
          > a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the
          > transition, as being relevant to a timeline.
          > IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant."
          >
          > Prometheus,
          >
          > I had something on the timeline already:
          >
          > 1980 - Plans to Step Aside / Darwin Gross - March 1980:
          >
          > "[....] A year earlier, the first week of March 1980, my pred-
          > ecessor as the spiritual leader of ECKANKAR, Darwin Gross,
          > had paid me [Harold Klemp] a visit in the camera department
          > at the ECKANKAR Office in Menlo Park, California. The office
          > had moved to California in 1975. [....] Amid neatly ordered trays
          > of developer, stop bath, and fix, boxes of film and camera equip-
          > ment all around us, Gross told of his plans to step aside as the
          > Living ECK Master. Would I accept the position as his successor?
          > [....]" [Based on: Soul Travelers Of The Far Country, by Harold
          > Klemp, copyright 1987, pp. 129-130]
          >
          > *****************************************************
          >
          > I wonder if it was totally dark in there. Isn't there
          > a red light which can illuminate a dark room without
          > exposing (harming) any film?
          >
          > Etznab
          >
        • prometheus_973
          When one looks at what Klemp wrote about Darwin in 1987 and, again, in 2000 there is an obvious difference. The KAL agent and Black Magician, Klemp, was the
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 7, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            When one looks at what Klemp wrote
            about Darwin in 1987 and, again, in
            2000 there is an obvious difference.

            The KAL agent and Black Magician,
            Klemp, was the one working in a
            Soundproof Darkroom at the ESC,
            not Gross! The connotation and
            symbolism associated with these
            facts should Not be overlooked by
            ECKists any longer!

            In Klemp's 2000 Copyright of his Autobiography
            IT WAS KLEMP'S SUGGESTION to Darwin that
            they go inside the "darkroom." When Darwin
            heard that it was a "darkroom" he "hesitated."
            Let's face it, this was the LEM/Mahanta (DG)
            wanting to privately discuss the passing of the
            Rod of ECK Power. But, it was Klemp that chose
            a room that was absent of Light and Sound.
            Thus, the room symbolized an absence of the
            ECK and, therefore, the room symbolized the
            Negative force of the KAL!

            It's also interesting that in Klemp's "Autobiography"
            HK leaves out the fact that this Darkroom Lab,
            that he worked in on a daily basis, was previously
            Soundproofed! However, in HK's "Soul Travelers of
            the Far Country" Klemp mentions this fact in Chapter
            7. Why did Klemp omit this Soundproofing detail in
            his Autobiography, unless, HK now (years later) saw
            the negative implications and the symbolism behind
            this fact.

            The room Klemp worked in was blocking out the
            Light and Sound (the ECK)! Klemp was attempting
            to cover-up these facts with a rewrite, except,
            he mentions that Darwin "hesitated" to go into
            that room to discuss the transition. Oops!
            [Autobiography of a Modern Prophet, pg. 409]

            Darwin was setup by Klemp as the bad guy! But,
            the real truth and facts, in Klemp's own words,
            show that the real Black Magician was Klemp!

            Where else, but a Soundproof Darkroom at the
            ESC, would be a better place for a Black Magician
            and KAL agent to work his magic on unsuspecting
            ECKists!

            Prometheus


            Prometheus wrote:
            "A year earlier, the first week of March
            1980, my predecessor Darwin Gross,
            paid me a visit in the camera department
            at the ECKankar Office in Menlo Park,
            California. The office had moved to
            California in 1975. I was seated on a
            stool by the light table opaqueing (sic)
            negatives that were to be used in making
            plates for the printing press. Gross leaned
            against the other table, made a few pleasant
            remarks, then asked me to accompany him
            into the dark room, which was soundproof."
            [Soul Travelers of the Far Country, Copyright
            1987, CH.7, pg.129]

            It should be noted that Klemp worked daily
            in this Darkroom (Soundproofed) Lab. Of course,
            there is a red light on in the darkroom when
            film is being developed, but that's not the point
            I was making.

            The point is that in ECK these subtle revelations
            and details are referred to as "Golden Tongued
            Wisdom" and as "Waking Dreams!" Here, the future
            Mahanta (Klemp) was not only chosen by a person
            who turned out to be a "Black Magician," but Klemp,
            also, worked in a place that was absent of the ECK
            (the LIGHT and SOUND). Now, is this a coincidence?
            I was always told that there are No Coincidences
            in ECK! With Klemp, however, the Catch-22 rule
            seems to supersede Golden Tongued Wisdom and
            Waking Dreams!

            In Klemp's "Autobiography of a Modern Prophet"
            on pages 408-409 (copyright 2000) Klemp states
            that he was able to discuss the transition again,
            with Gross, on September 16, 1981.

            "The Living ECK Master sat huddled on the stool,
            his brows knit in thought. 'We really shouldn't
            talk about it here.' He shot a glance at the open
            door, where anyone might have walked in at any
            moment. 'We could go into the DARKROOM,' I
            suggested. He hesitated, then said, 'All right.'"

            This is a different account of who suggested going
            into the soundproofed darkroom than what Klemp
            gave in 1987. Notice that Klemp says that Darwin
            "hesitated" when Klemp suggested they go into
            the "DARKROOM" to discuss the passing of the
            Rod in just 36 days!

            Prometheus


            ************************************************
            Etznab wrote:

            Prometheus wrote:
            "For example, I see the meetings between
            HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in
            a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the
            transition, as being relevant to a timeline.
            IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant."

            Prometheus,

            I had something on the timeline already:

            1980 - Plans to Step Aside / Darwin Gross - March 1980:

            "[....] A year earlier, the first week of March 1980, my pred-
            ecessor as the spiritual leader of ECKANKAR, Darwin Gross,
            had paid me [Harold Klemp] a visit in the camera department
            at the ECKANKAR Office in Menlo Park, California. The office
            had moved to California in 1975. [....] Amid neatly ordered trays
            of developer, stop bath, and fix, boxes of film and camera equip-
            ment all around us, Gross told of his plans to step aside as the
            Living ECK Master. Would I accept the position as his successor?
            [....]" [Based on: Soul Travelers Of The Far Country, by Harold
            Klemp, copyright 1987, pp. 129-130]

            *****************************************************

            I wonder if it was totally dark in there. Isn't there
            a red light which can illuminate a dark room without
            exposing (harming) any film?

            Etznab


            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello Etznab,
            > I think that an EK Timeline would be
            > nice to see and to have on hand. There
            > might be things that one could add
            > or insert into a Timeline depending
            > on what is seen as relevant either by
            > those contributing or by those reading
            > it. That's up to you, however, since
            > it's your project.
            >
            > For example, I see the meetings between
            > HK & DG in 1980 and 1981 at the ESC in
            > a "Sound Proof Dark Room," to plan the
            > transition, as being relevant to a timeline.
            > IMO-Both location and dates seem relevant.
            >
            > And, Gross gave Klemp his 7th Initiation
            > on May 23, 1980 and the 8th on Jan, 27,
            > 1981 and the 9th on July 22, 1981. [Soul
            > Travelers of the Far Country, pages 139,
            > 140, 186]
            >
            > Of course, Gross gave Klemp the 12th on
            > Oct. 22, 1981.
            >
            > Also, I would hope that our feedback
            > would be seen as constructive criticisms
            > that would/could possibly benefit the project.
            >
            > Anyway, it would be nice to see what you
            > have to date.
            >
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > Etznab wrote:
            > Was going over my old Eckankar "Trivia"
            > Timeline and I realized there is much more
            > on it now compared to the time it was last
            > in the public domain. In other words, it's
            > not the same.
            >
            > What I'm probably going to do is reload
            > the timeline in stages, starting about the
            > earliest compiled records. It won't be the
            > same as years ago, because I've added other
            > trivial recorded events - including lineage
            > for other teachings and masters as well.
            >
            > For those, and other various reasons, I
            > decided to change the name to:
            >
            > Legacy of Lineage - A Timecapsule Timeline
            > of *Eckankar "Trivia" & More
            >
            > *******************************************
            >
            > It won't be a file, but rather a link, I
            > could share with E.S.A. I'm also considering
            > sharing it with A.R.E. and others because it
            > will probably be something that others could
            > criticize and contribute to in the future.
            >
            > The first section will probably be ready
            > and loaded soon.
            >
            > Etznab
            >
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