Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
Skip to search.
 

Re: What now?

Expand Messages
  • drubezarne
    Etznab, your comments are constructive and I concur with what you said below... I agree that a lot can be learned from others, while at the same time I
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 6 10:52 AM
      Etznab, your comments are constructive and I concur with what you said
      below...

      "I agree that a lot can be learned from
      others, while at the same time I suspect
      there is a not so well noticed connection
      between how people search and what they
      actually find.

      What I mean to say is that I believe one's
      paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
      happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
      replaced by another. A better one. Because
      the former seems to become old and like all
      the juice squeezed out of the lemon."

      Due to the temporary nature of this world and everything in it, all
      things have their place and value in time. As individual consciousness
      evolves, old concepts no longer fit and the Soul moves on to newer and
      greater horizons. It's what we all did when we rejected the idea of an
      infallible master. I myself, realized that there is only God - Soul
      and nothing in-between. Anyone who declares themselves an intermediary
      between God and Soul is a fraud.

      Regards
      Liska

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > "My primary goal is personal experience,
      > but reading other people's works helps focus
      > my attention on something greater than day
      > to day mundane existence."
      >
      > I agree that a lot can be learned from
      > others, while at the same time I suspect
      > there is a not so well noticed connection
      > between how people search and what they
      > actually find.
      >
      > What I mean to say is that I believe one's
      > paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
      > happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
      > replaced by another. A better one. Because
      > the former seems to become old and like all
      > the juice squeezed out of the lemon.
      >
      > Not wishing, or taking an initiative, might
      > seem to leave the same old, same old over
      > and over like a broken record.
      >
      > This is one of the traps I have found myself
      > in time and time again. By limiting myself to
      > only certain specific paradigms, listening and
      > reading only certain specific authors and then
      > thinking along only certain specific lines.
      >
      > I like to meet a variety of different people &
      > hear about a variety of different experiences.
      > In fact, I think if one would consider how many
      > different people there are in the world, and that
      > much potential for experience were available to
      > them, it might not sound too impossible how
      > one part of the "universe" could answer another
      > part. I suspect initiative at both ends of relation-
      > ships.
      >
      > Etznab
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: drubezarn
      > e <drubezarne@...>
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:16 am
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
      >
      >
      >
      > Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about
      >
      > Eckankar's charlatans and other frauds who want to act as
      >
      > intermediaries between God and Soul. On the other hand, concerning
      >
      > your views about all other teachings I would have to disagree.
      >
      >
      >
      > When I look closely at certain teachings or teachers who seem sincere
      >
      > in their approach to bringing out truth, I detect a subtle golden
      >
      > thread that runs throughout history. I'm not interested in the
      >
      > limitations of orthodoxy or its insistence that I'm supposed to
      >
      > imitate their way of life. Instead, I try to find writers who seem
      >
      > honest and aren't looking for followers to make their living from or
      >
      > boost their egos.
      >
      >
      >
      > I take what I think sounds true and test it out for myself. For
      >
      > example, I found Neville's "as if" principle extremely effective in
      >
      > meditation/contemplation. On the inner planes, thinking and
      >
      > visualization bring about events very quickly and that's when
      >
      > assumptions can take me very far. After a while, I drop them because
      >
      > they are no longer necessary.
      >
      >
      >
      > The sound paths such as Sant Mat are helpful for getting into a trance
      >
      > state while still retaining awareness. They are useful for numbing the
      >
      > body and moving the consciousness beyond physical a
      > wareness. However,
      >
      > I don't believe in focusing on or visualizing a master. I prefer to
      >
      > place my attention on the formless.
      >
      >
      >
      > Laurency's writings about Pythagorean Hylozoics appears to give one of
      >
      > the best explanations for our existence.
      >
      >
      >
      > By the way, Mish and Liz, I listened to the Jed McKenna audio books
      >
      > and found a lot of references to Ramana Maharshi's writings. McKenna's
      >
      > books influenced me to look into Maharshi's works. Ford's book
      >
      > motivated me to look into Laurency's writings.
      >
      >
      >
      > My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people's
      >
      > works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day
      >
      > mundane existence.
      >
      >
      >
      > I don't believe in masters, but I do believe in teachers. If I want to
      >
      > learn how to play piano, I'll find someone to teach me. The teacher is
      >
      > there to show me the quickest and best way to get there, while my role
      >
      > is to practice and develop my own style of playing.
      >
      >
      >
      > All of us on this forum have been victims of the Eckankar racket and I
      >
      > don't blame people for becoming cynics and debunkers of all
      >
      > spiritual/religious teachings after leaving Eckankar. As for myself, I
      >
      > don't plan to spend much more time putting my energies into debunking
      >
      > Eckankar. The critical faculty has its uses, but when taken to the
      >
      > extreme it kills off idealism. There's a lot more I want to explore
      >
      > and test before20declaring "Everyone seems to be selling something for
      >
      > one reason or another."
      >
      >
      >
      > Call me an optimist, but I believe there are and were a few select
      >
      > individuals who just wanted to bring out the truth because they woke
      >
      > up to or achieved a certain high state of awareness. So, I don't think
      >
      > selling, promoting, and persuading were their goals in life.
      >
      >
      >
      > Regards
      >
      > Liska
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      >
      > prometheus_973@ wrote:
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Hello Ma-li,
      >
      > > I thought I'd respond as well. For one
      >
      > > thing I can't recommend anything to
      >
      > > read, but I find many of the resources
      >
      > > listed on this site to be interesting.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > As far as believing these and other sources
      >
      > > of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
      >
      > > and everything by the so called "experts." I
      >
      > > definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
      >
      > > seems to be selling something for one reason
      >
      > > or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
      >
      > > subjective, and is found within by each Soul.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Ma-li wrote:
      >
      > > [snip]
      >
      > > "Would anyone like to share with me how you
      >
      > > handled it when you decided to leave, and
      >
      > > especially what did you do about the spiritual
      >
      > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
      >
      > >
      > ; Eck Masters never really existed, except in
      >
      > > writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
      >
      > > left but God?"
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
      >
      > > many things in ECKankar just didn't make
      >
      > > sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
      >
      > > it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
      >
      > > and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
      >
      > > every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
      >
      > > opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
      >
      > > one dimensional stories didn't help either.
      >
      > > I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
      >
      > > my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
      >
      > > believable to others.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > However, I've always known and had proof of
      >
      > > Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
      >
      > > I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
      >
      > > of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
      >
      > > and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
      >
      > > amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
      >
      > > or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
      >
      > > long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
      >
      > > because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
      >
      > > in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
      >
      > > HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
      >
      > > can experience a
      > Oneness with All There Is and a
      >
      > > Contentment that I could never achieve while under
      >
      > > the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
      >
      > > up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
      >
      > > new is it?
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
      >
      > > beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
      >
      > > the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
      >
      > > the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
      >
      > > warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
      >
      > > IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
      >
      > > the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
      >
      > > IT IS ME, and I AM IT."
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
      >
      > > and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
      >
      > > observing Nature is very contemplative and
      >
      > > peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
      >
      > > The past tunes take one back to one's youth
      >
      > > and beyond and into other times as does reading
      >
      > > about or watching history on TV. It's good to
      >
      > > know about how we became who we are and
      >
      > > what we think we are in order to know more
      >
      > > about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > "All this being said, I don't know what to do
      >
      > > about spiritual exercises, or how to progres
      > s
      >
      > > from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
      >
      > > and need to make a choice about what to do next.
      >
      > > If someone would care to share their experiences
      >
      > > and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
      >
      > > can use my private email if you'd prefer."
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
      >
      > > Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
      >
      > > buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
      >
      > > because of friends and/or the promise of God-
      >
      > > Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
      >
      > > giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
      >
      > > I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
      >
      > > give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
      >
      > > after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
      >
      > > I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
      >
      > > and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
      >
      > > many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
      >
      > > a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
      >
      > > me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
      >
      > > reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
      >
      > > same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > [snip]
      >
      > > Ma-li (also) wrote:
      >
      > > "...Then the doubts
      > and mental processes begin
      >
      > > working until he's got himself almost convinced
      >
      > > he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
      >
      > > to go back and change answers because he also
      >
      > > feels he did the best he could.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > What does he do to fill the empty space?"
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > >
      >
      > > *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
      >
      > > (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
      >
      > > it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
      >
      > > Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
      >
      > > middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
      >
      > > Masters in the making.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > When one follows another they give up their ability
      >
      > > to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
      >
      > > give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
      >
      > > a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
      >
      > > Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
      >
      > > Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
      >
      > > No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.
      >
      > >
      >
      > > Prometheus
      >
      > >
      >
    • Ma-li
      Liska,   I totally agree with what you stated in your last paragraph.  Would that I had known that years aog, it might have saved me a lot of problems. 
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 6 11:12 AM
        Liska,
         
        I totally agree with what you stated in your last paragraph.  Would that I had known that years aog, it might have saved me a lot of problems.  However, then I would not have learned all the truths I did find thru Eckankar, and for that I'm eternally grateful.  I'm right where I'm supposed to be, in the perfect place and in the perfect moment.
         
        Namaste,
         
        Ma-li

        --- On Sat, 12/6/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
        From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 11:52 AM

        Etznab, your comments are constructive and I concur with what you said
        below...

        "I agree that a lot can be learned from
        others, while at the same time I suspect
        there is a not so well noticed connection
        between how people search and what they
        actually find.

        What I mean to say is that I believe one's
        paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
        happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
        replaced by another. A better one. Because
        the former seems to become old and like all
        the juice squeezed out of the lemon."

        Due to the temporary nature of this world and everything in it, all
        things have their place and value in time. As individual consciousness
        evolves, old concepts no longer fit and the Soul moves on to newer and
        greater horizons. It's what we all did when we rejected the idea of an
        infallible master. I myself, realized that there is only God - Soul
        and nothing in-between. Anyone who declares themselves an intermediary
        between God and Soul is a fraud.

        Regards
        Liska

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, etznab@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > "My primary goal is personal experience,
        > but reading other people's works helps focus
        > my attention on something greater than day
        > to day mundane existence."
        >
        > I agree that a lot can be learned from
        > others, while at the same time I suspect
        > there is a not so well noticed connection
        > between how people search and what they
        > actually find.
        >
        > What I mean to say is that I believe one's
        > paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
        > happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
        > replaced by another. A better one. Because
        > the former seems to become old and like all
        > the juice squeezed out of the lemon.
        >
        > Not wishing, or taking an initiative, might
        > seem to leave the same old, same old over
        > and over like a broken record.
        >
        > This is one of the traps I have found myself
        > in time and time again. By limiting myself to
        > only certain specific paradigms, listening and
        > reading only certain specific authors and then
        > thinking along only certain specific lines.
        >
        > I like to meet a variety of different people &
        > hear about a variety of different experiences.
        > In fact, I think if one would consider how many
        > different people there are in the world, and that
        > much potential for experience were available to
        > them, it might not sound too impossible how
        > one part of the "universe" could answer another
        > part. I suspect initiative at both ends of relation-
        > ships.
        >
        > Etznab
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: drubezarn
        > e <drubezarne@ ...>
        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
        > Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:16 am
        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: What now?
        >
        >
        >
        > Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about
        >
        > Eckankar's charlatans and other frauds who want to act as
        >
        > intermediaries between God and Soul. On the other hand, concerning
        >
        > your views about all other teachings I would have to disagree.
        >
        >
        >
        > When I look closely at certain teachings or teachers who seem sincere
        >
        > in their approach to bringing out truth, I detect a subtle golden
        >
        > thread that runs throughout history. I'm not interested in the
        >
        > limitations of orthodoxy or its insistence that I'm supposed to
        >
        > imitate their way of life. Instead, I try to find writers who seem
        >
        > honest and aren't looking for followers to make their living from or
        >
        > boost their egos.
        >
        >
        >
        > I take what I think sounds true and test it out for myself. For
        >
        > example, I found Neville's "as if" principle extremely effective in
        >
        > meditation/contempl ation. On the inner planes, thinking and
        >
        > visualization bring about events very quickly and that's when
        >
        > assumptions can take me very far. After a while, I drop them because
        >
        > they are no longer necessary.
        >
        >
        >
        > The sound paths such as Sant Mat are helpful for getting into a trance
        >
        > state while still retaining awareness. They are useful for numbing the
        >
        > body and moving the consciousness beyond physical a
        > wareness. However,
        >
        > I don't believe in focusing on or visualizing a master. I prefer to
        >
        > place my attention on the formless.
        >
        >
        >
        > Laurency's writings about Pythagorean Hylozoics appears to give one of
        >
        > the best explanations for our existence.
        >
        >
        >
        > By the way, Mish and Liz, I listened to the Jed McKenna audio books
        >
        > and found a lot of references to Ramana Maharshi's writings. McKenna's
        >
        > books influenced me to look into Maharshi's works. Ford's book
        >
        > motivated me to look into Laurency's writings.
        >
        >
        >
        > My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people's
        >
        > works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day
        >
        > mundane existence.
        >
        >
        >
        > I don't believe in masters, but I do believe in teachers. If I want to
        >
        > learn how to play piano, I'll find someone to teach me. The teacher is
        >
        > there to show me the quickest and best way to get there, while my role
        >
        > is to practice and develop my own style of playing.
        >
        >
        >
        > All of us on this forum have been victims of the Eckankar racket and I
        >
        > don't blame people for becoming cynics and debunkers of all
        >
        > spiritual/religious teachings after leaving Eckankar. As for myself, I
        >
        > don't plan to spend much more time putting my energies into debunking
        >
        > Eckankar. The critical faculty has its uses, but when taken to the
        >
        > extreme it kills off idealism. There's a lot more I want to explore
        >
        > and test before20declaring "Everyone seems to be selling something for
        >
        > one reason or another."
        >
        >
        >
        > Call me an optimist, but I believe there are and were a few select
        >
        > individuals who just wanted to bring out the truth because they woke
        >
        > up to or achieved a certain high state of awareness. So, I don't think
        >
        > selling, promoting, and persuading were their goals in life.
        >
        >
        >
        > Regards
        >
        > Liska
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_ 973"
        >
        > prometheus_973@ wrote:
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; Hello Ma-li,
        >
        > &gt; I thought I'd respond as well. For one
        >
        > &gt; thing I can't recommend anything to
        >
        > &gt; read, but I find many of the resources
        >
        > &gt; listed on this site to be interesting.
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; As far as believing these and other sources
        >
        > &gt; of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
        >
        > &gt; and everything by the so called "experts." I
        >
        > &gt; definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
        >
        > &gt; seems to be selling something for one reason
        >
        > &gt; or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
        >
        > &gt; subjective, and is found within by each Soul.
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; Ma-li wrote:
        >
        > &gt; [snip]
        >
        > &gt; "Would anyone like to share with me how you
        >
        > &gt; handled it when you decided to leave, and
        >
        > &gt; especially what did you do about the spiritual
        >
        > &gt; exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
        >
        > &gt
        > ; Eck Masters never really existed, except in
        >
        > &gt; writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
        >
        > &gt; left but God?"
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
        >
        > &gt; many things in ECKankar just didn't make
        >
        > &gt; sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
        >
        > &gt; it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
        >
        > &gt; and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
        >
        > &gt; every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
        >
        > &gt; opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
        >
        > &gt; one dimensional stories didn't help either.
        >
        > &gt; I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
        >
        > &gt; my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
        >
        > &gt; believable to others.
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; However, I've always known and had proof of
        >
        > &gt; Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
        >
        > &gt; I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
        >
        > &gt; of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
        >
        > &gt; and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
        >
        > &gt; amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
        >
        > &gt; or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
        >
        > &gt; long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
        >
        > &gt; because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
        >
        > &gt; in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
        >
        > &gt; HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
        >
        > &gt; can experience a
        > Oneness with All There Is and a
        >
        > &gt; Contentment that I could never achieve while under
        >
        > &gt; the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
        >
        > &gt; up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
        >
        > &gt; new is it?
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
        >
        > &gt; beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
        >
        > &gt; the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
        >
        > &gt; the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
        >
        > &gt; warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
        >
        > &gt; IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
        >
        > &gt; the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
        >
        > &gt; IT IS ME, and I AM IT."
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
        >
        > &gt; and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
        >
        > &gt; observing Nature is very contemplative and
        >
        > &gt; peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
        >
        > &gt; The past tunes take one back to one's youth
        >
        > &gt; and beyond and into other times as does reading
        >
        > &gt; about or watching history on TV. It's good to
        >
        > &gt; know about how we became who we are and
        >
        > &gt; what we think we are in order to know more
        >
        > &gt; about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; "All this being said, I don't know what to do
        >
        > &gt; about spiritual exercises, or how to progres
        > s
        >
        > &gt; from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
        >
        > &gt; and need to make a choice about what to do next.
        >
        > &gt; If someone would care to share their experiences
        >
        > &gt; and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
        >
        > &gt; can use my private email if you'd prefer."
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
        >
        > &gt; Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
        >
        > &gt; buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
        >
        > &gt; because of friends and/or the promise of God-
        >
        > &gt; Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
        >
        > &gt; giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
        >
        > &gt; I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
        >
        > &gt; give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
        >
        > &gt; after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
        >
        > &gt; I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
        >
        > &gt; and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
        >
        > &gt; many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
        >
        > &gt; a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
        >
        > &gt; me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
        >
        > &gt; reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
        >
        > &gt; same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; [snip]
        >
        > &gt; Ma-li (also) wrote:
        >
        > &gt; "...Then the doubts
        > and mental processes begin
        >
        > &gt; working until he's got himself almost convinced
        >
        > &gt; he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
        >
        > &gt; to go back and change answers because he also
        >
        > &gt; feels he did the best he could.
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; What does he do to fill the empty space?"
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
        >
        > &gt; (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
        >
        > &gt; it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
        >
        > &gt; Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
        >
        > &gt; middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
        >
        > &gt; Masters in the making.
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; When one follows another they give up their ability
        >
        > &gt; to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
        >
        > &gt; give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
        >
        > &gt; a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
        >
        > &gt; Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
        >
        > &gt; Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
        >
        > &gt; No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.
        >
        > &gt;
        >
        > &gt; Prometheus
        >
        > &gt;
        >


      • Ma-li
        Thank you, Mish, and I will take time to just enjoy the empty spaces.  I have a feeling they won t be around much longer. lol  Haven t read the books you
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 6 12:11 PM
          Thank you, Mish, and I will take time to just enjoy the empty spaces.  I have a feeling they won't be around much longer. lol  Haven't read the books you recommend, but will find them one day soon.
           
          Re: tests in college....those were the days.lol  I did just what you did....left the others to sit and stew while I was out enjoying what the day had to offer.  Funny how the faster I did a test the better score I received.
           
          Namaste
           
          Ma-li

          --- On Fri, 12/5/08, mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
          From: mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...>
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 8:16 AM

          Hello Ma-li!

          I like your questions about filling in the empty spaces,
          what to do now? Likening it to finishing a 3 hour test in
          one hour, reminded me of my college days! Actually, I
          remember a few occasions when taking an exam that I
          did actually finish quite early . . . and I remember some
          self-doubts about why I finished it so quickly while others
          were still laboring over the exam. What did I do?? I turned
          the exam in and left the room! And then I did sort of a
          happy dance outside, glad to be free of that exam room . . .
          and how did I do? Well, I did quite well, because I had
          aced those exams, and I was free to go on to the next
          thing . . . and being a college student, I remember heading
          to the beach with some friends for one time and having so
          much fun. Can't quite remember on the other occasions, but
          if it was just before school break, I probably got an early
          start for home! So I guess my message is to trust yourself! : )

          Empty spaces are a luxury really, but they often come at a
          hard time, so there can be the feeling of loss . . . and we
          want to quickly fill it up again with something else. I think
          it is good to just take one's time and find things that are of
          interest. I remember one time in my life when I had to sort
          of re-invent myself. Every morning I'd ask myself what it
          was that I wanted and needed to do with my life to make
          myself happy. Happiness is so essential--it is not selfish to
          want to seek this IMO. My goals had to be reasonable and
          attainable goals--that was one stipulation I placed on myself.
          I finally defined what it was I wanted and wanted to do and
          then I looked for the ways to accomplish it all, one by one.

          I guess what I'm saying you have to ask yourself what it is
          you need and then find the ways to have it. But take your
          time and enjoy the freedom of those empty spaces because
          they allow you freedom for introspection which is needed to
          take the next steps--all by your own choices and decisions!

          Good luck! And I'd like to offer a couple of books for reading
          as well. One member of our site who left eckankar after 30
          years found Jed McKenna's book "Spiritual Enlightenment, the
          Damnest Thing" to greatly help her to handle the void. She
          still says it is the best book! I also like Sam Harris' book "The
          End of Faith", and also enjoyed Bill Moyers TV series on "On Faith
          and Reason" to be quite valuable. You can google for the Bill
          Moyers series to find and read the transcripts.

          Mish

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, Ma-li <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Non ekster et al,
          >  
          > It's not so much that I'm searching for anything, it's more like I'm living in the Now all
          the time. However, on another level, I think/feel that I should be doing/being something
          more than just being.  Don't know if that makes sense, so I'll liken it to the student who
          finishes a 3 hour test in an hour.  What does he do for the other 2 hours...just sit there
          quietly, leave the room, or go back over the test yet again?  He's in a quandry, and it
          doesn't feel right that he's finished early. Then the doubts and mental processes begin
          working until he's got himself almost convinced he really screwed up the test, but he
          doesn't want to go back and change answers because he also feels he did the best he
          could.  What does he do to fill the empty space?
          >  
          > Namaste
          >  
          > Ma-li
          >
          > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Non ekster <eckchains@. ..> wrote:
          >
          > From: Non ekster <eckchains@. ..>
          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: What now?
          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
          > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:02 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Sometimes it's best to just stop Searching.
          >
          > Non ekster ; )
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mhstarlings"
          > <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello All,
          > >
          > > I have come to the place where I was in 1973 before I joined
          > > Eckankar. The difference is whatI know now, and all the years of Eck
          > > teachings that have filled those years up to maybe 7 years ago.
          > > Seven years is how long it's been since I felt "right" about
          > > remaining in Eckankar, and it's taken me this long to find answers,
          > > and to make the decision to sever my ties with it.
          > >
          > > Would anyone like to share with me how you handled it when you
          > > decided to leave, and especially what did you do about the spiritual
          > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the Eck Masters never
          > > really existed, except in writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
          > > left but God?
          > >
          > > God has always been the "real" aspect of my beliefs. IT is in
          > > everything, be it rocks, trees, the two-legged beings, the four-
          > > legged beings, the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the warm
          > > Summer breeze that tickles the leaves. IT is the rain that gives
          > > and sustains life for the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in
          > > everything. IT IS ME, and I AM IT.
          > >
          > > All this being said, I don't know what to do about spiritual
          > > exercises, or how to progress from here. It's like I'm standing
          > > alone once again, and need to make a choice about what to do next.
          > > If someone would care to share their experiences and choices from
          > > this point, I'd appreciate it. You can use my private email if
          > > you'd prefer.
          > >
          > > Thank you all for being here, and thank you so much Prometheus for
          > > creating this forum for people like me to find when they search for
          > > the answers.
          > >
          > > Namaste
          > >
          > > Ma-li
          > >
          >


        • Ma-li
          Liska, I haven t checked these out yet, but will soon.  Still trying to get all of Ford s ebook read, but have to do it slowly since it really hurts my eyes
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 6 12:13 PM
            Liska, I haven't checked these out yet, but will soon.  Still trying to get all of Ford's ebook read, but have to do it slowly since it really hurts my eyes to read on the monitor.
             
            Thanks bunches.
             
            Namaste
             
            Ma-li

            --- On Thu, 12/4/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
            From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:30 PM

            Ma-li,
            Have you checked out the free Henry T. Laurency .pdf books?

            http://laurency. com/

            I also recommend Neville Goddard, Joel Goldsmith, Ramana Maharshi, and
            Jiddu Krishnamurti.

            Regards
            Liska

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, Ma-li
            <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Non ekster et al,
            >  
            > It's not so much that I'm searching for anything, it's more like I'm
            living in the Now all the time. However, on another level, I
            think/feel that I should be doing/being something more than just
            being.  Don't know if that makes sense, so I'll liken it to the
            student who finishes a 3 hour test in an hour.  What does he do for
            the other 2 hours...just sit there quietly, leave the room, or go back
            over the test yet again?  He's in a quandry, and it doesn't feel right
            that he's finished early. Then the doubts and mental processes begin
            working until he's got himself almost convinced he really screwed up
            the test, but he doesn't want to go back and change answers because he
            also feels he did the best he could.  What does he do to fill the
            empty space?
            >  
            > Namaste
            >  
            > Ma-li
            >
            > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Non ekster <eckchains@. ..> wrote:
            >
            > From: Non ekster <eckchains@. ..>
            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: What now?
            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
            > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:02 AM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Sometimes it's best to just stop Searching.
            >
            > Non ekster ; )
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mhstarlings"
            > <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello All,
            > >
            > > I have come to the place where I was in 1973 before I joined
            > > Eckankar. The difference is whatI know now, and all the years of Eck
            > > teachings that have filled those years up to maybe 7 years ago.
            > > Seven years is how long it's been since I felt "right" about
            > > remaining in Eckankar, and it's taken me this long to find answers,
            > > and to make the decision to sever my ties with it.
            > >
            > > Would anyone like to share with me how you handled it when you
            > > decided to leave, and especially what did you do about the spiritual
            > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the Eck Masters never
            > > really existed, except in writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
            > > left but God?
            > >
            > > God has always been the "real" aspect of my beliefs. IT is in
            > > everything, be it rocks, trees, the two-legged beings, the four-
            > > legged beings, the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the warm
            > > Summer breeze that tickles the leaves. IT is the rain that gives
            > > and sustains life for the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in
            > > everything. IT IS ME, and I AM IT.
            > >
            > > All this being said, I don't know what to do about spiritual
            > > exercises, or how to progress from here. It's like I'm standing
            > > alone once again, and need to make a choice about what to do next.
            > > If someone would care to share their experiences and choices from
            > > this point, I'd appreciate it. You can use my private email if
            > > you'd prefer.
            > >
            > > Thank you all for being here, and thank you so much Prometheus for
            > > creating this forum for people like me to find when they search for
            > > the answers.
            > >
            > > Namaste
            > >
            > > Ma-li
            > >
            >


          • Ma-li
            Hi Prometheus,   Thank you for all your wonderful, knowledgeable comments.  I do appreciate them, and can relate to what you said.   I too wanted to believe
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 6 1:06 PM
              Hi Prometheus,
               
              Thank you for all your wonderful, knowledgeable comments.  I do appreciate them, and can relate to what you said.
               
              I too wanted to believe all the malarky that was being fed to me, and had problems buying into what HK was saying.  As Eckankar evolved/devolved under HK, it seemed to be leaving me with an empty feeling.  I could get the same stories from any 5th grader.  I made that comment to another Eckist, and was told HK had to make it simpler for those just "coming in".  If those "coming in" were supposed to be already more spiritually advanced than those of us who had been there a long time, then why dumb it down.  Just one more thing that didn't set well with me.
               
              As for the spiritual exercises, apparently I didn't do them in an acceptable manner, but that was the way that was comfortable to me.  I haven't done them in quite a while now, and eventually will invent my own means of doing spiritual contemplation, if need be.  I spend a lot of time in Nature....gonna go out on a limb here and tell you that my entire life has been involved with helping animals in need...from the newborn to the ancient with special needs that require almost constant care.  I learned more about love from these animals than I ever did from HK, and feel blessed to have been given so much unconditional love and trust by beings usually untrusting of humans.  As each one passed over, it broke my heart, but I knew they were in a better place.  At least they had experienced love on this plane, and I'm sure it helped their Soul progression too. They were as close to me as my own heartbeat, and still are even tho' they have gone.
               
              By giving up this spiritual path, I feel more free to be me, and to know and love all life whatever the form.  Still have to work on the rattlesnakes and flies however. lol
               
              I think I bought into Eckankar for as long as I did because it seemed like the right thing to do at the time.  As the dis-satisfatico grew, I knew I had to be true to myself first and foremost.  Maybe it was the challenge of attaining initiations, I'm not certain.  I just know that somewhere along the line they ceased to matter, and my eyes were opening to see more about the spiritual path I was on. Didn't like what I saw, but didn't know how to get off the path.   I have done lots of "outside" reading over the years, and that has been instrumental in my eyes being opened.  Then there was that little sticking point that has always galled me........needing a mediator to connect with God.  If I didn't believe priests, ministers etc. could do it,  why should the Mahanta be any different???  There was no difference, and I finally "saw the light".
               
              My test has been taken, and I've completed it long before the others.  I have no doubts, and don't need to recheck my answers.  I won't sit around and wait for the others to finish, but will walk out the door into a world of fun, love, joy, and totally of my making.  I am the captain of my own ship now, and feel certain I will attain whatever spiritual goals I set for myself.
               
              I have been feeling guilty about not feeling guilty about leaving Eckankar.  It was guilt that had me wondering what to do next.  Now, thanks to all the wonderful posts by you, etznab, aftrek, mish, the guilt has gone away.  You all took the plunge with your eyes wide open, went thru the "what now" period, and emerged on the other side as full, complete human beings in charge of your own destinies.  May I join your ranks? 


              --- On Thu, 12/4/08, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:26 PM

              Hello Ma-li,
              I thought I'd respond as well. For one
              thing I can't recommend anything to
              read, but I find many of the resources
              listed on this site to be interesting.

              As far as believing these and other sources
              of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
              and everything by the so called "experts." I
              definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
              seems to be selling something for one reason
              or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
              subjective, and is found within by each Soul.

              Ma-li wrote:
              [snip]
              "Would anyone like to share with me how you
              handled it when you decided to leave, and
              especially what did you do about the spiritual
              exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
              Eck Masters never really existed, except in
              writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
              left but God?"

              *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
              many things in ECKankar just didn't make
              sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
              it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
              and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
              every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
              opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
              one dimensional stories didn't help either.
              I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
              my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
              believable to others.

              However, I've always known and had proof of
              Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
              I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
              of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
              and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
              amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
              or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
              long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
              because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
              in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
              HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
              can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a
              Contentment that I could never achieve while under
              the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
              up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
              new is it?

              "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
              beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
              the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
              the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
              warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
              IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
              the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
              IT IS ME, and I AM IT."

              *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
              and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
              observing Nature is very contemplative and
              peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
              The past tunes take one back to one's youth
              and beyond and into other times as does reading
              about or watching history on TV. It's good to
              know about how we became who we are and
              what we think we are in order to know more
              about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.

              "All this being said, I don't know what to do
              about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
              from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
              and need to make a choice about what to do next.
              If someone would care to share their experiences
              and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
              can use my private email if you'd prefer."

              *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
              Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
              buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
              because of friends and/or the promise of God-
              Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
              giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
              I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
              give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
              after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
              I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
              and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
              many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
              a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
              me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
              reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
              same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!

              [snip]
              Ma-li (also) wrote:
              "...Then the doubts and mental processes begin
              working until he's got himself almost convinced
              he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
              to go back and change answers because he also
              feels he did the best he could.

              What does he do to fill the empty space?"

              *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
              (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
              it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
              Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
              middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
              Masters in the making.

              When one follows another they give up their ability
              to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
              give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
              a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
              Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
              Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
              No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.

              Prometheus



            • prometheus_973
              Hello Ma-li, It appears that you have already joined our ranks! You sound like an old friend where the passage of time and space becomes irrelevant to the
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 6 9:30 PM
                Hello Ma-li,
                It appears that you have already joined
                our ranks! You sound like an old friend
                where the passage of time and space
                becomes irrelevant to the friendship,
                the journey, and to the connection of Soul.

                I enjoyed reading of your experiences
                and insights too. Yes, I too have mixed
                feelings about flies and rattlesnakes.
                I usually give them fair warning first and
                offer them an out before taking preventative
                (extreme) measures. The thing is it startles
                me, at times, when other (friendly) snakes
                sneak up on me, or I "discover" them. It's
                actually kind of funny, but I scold them
                for scaring me or for me scaring myself!

                Prometheus


                Ma-li wrote:
                Hi Prometheus,

                Thank you for all your wonderful, knowledgeable
                comments. I do appreciate them, and can relate
                to what you said.

                I too wanted to believe all the malarky that was
                being fed to me, and had problems buying into
                what HK was saying. As Eckankar evolved/devolved
                under HK, it seemed to be leaving me with an empty
                feeling. I could get the same stories from any 5th
                grader. I made that comment to another Eckist,
                and was told HK had to make it simpler for those
                just "coming in". If those "coming in" were supposed
                to be already more spiritually advanced than those
                of us who had been there a long time, then why
                dumb it down. Just one more thing that didn't set
                well with me.

                As for the spiritual exercises, apparently I didn't
                do them in an acceptable manner, but that was
                the way that was comfortable to me. I haven't
                done them in quite a while now, and eventually
                will invent my own means of doing spiritual
                contemplation, if need be. I spend a lot of time
                in Nature....gonna go out on a limb here and tell
                you that my entire life has been involved with
                helping animals in need...from the newborn to
                the ancient with special needs that require almost
                constant care. I learned more about love from
                these animals than I ever did from HK, and feel
                blessed to have been given so much unconditional
                love and trust by beings usually untrusting of humans.
                As each one passed over, it broke my heart, but
                I knew they were in a better place. At least they
                had experienced love on this plane, and I'm sure
                it helped their Soul progression too. They were as
                close to me as my own heartbeat, and still are even
                tho' they have gone.

                By giving up this spiritual path, I feel more free
                to be me, and to know and love all life whatever
                the form. Still have to work on the rattlesnakes
                and flies however. lol

                I think I bought into Eckankar for as long as I did
                because it seemed like the right thing to do at the
                time. As the dis-satisfatico grew, I knew I had to
                be true to myself first and foremost. Maybe it was
                the challenge of attaining initiations, I'm not certain.
                I just know that somewhere along the line they ceased
                to matter, and my eyes were opening to see more
                about the spiritual path I was on. Didn't like what
                I saw, but didn't know how to get off the path.
                I have done lots of "outside" reading over the years,
                and that has been instrumental in my eyes being
                opened. Then there was that little sticking point
                that has always galled me........needing a mediator
                to connect with God. If I didn't believe priests,
                ministers etc. could do it, why should the Mahanta
                be any different??? There was no difference, and
                I finally "saw the light".

                My test has been taken, and I've completed it long
                before the others. I have no doubts, and don't need
                to recheck my answers. I won't sit around and wait
                for the others to finish, but will walk out the door
                into a world of fun, love, joy, and totally of my making.
                I am the captain of my own ship now, and feel certain
                I will attain whatever spiritual goals I set for myself.

                I have been feeling guilty about not feeling guilty
                about leaving Eckankar. It was guilt that had me
                wondering what to do next. Now, thanks to all the
                wonderful posts by you, etznab, aftrek, mish, the
                guilt has gone away. You all took the plunge with
                your eyes wide open, went thru the "what now"
                period, and emerged on the other side as full,
                complete human beings in charge of your own
                destinies. May I join your ranks?

                ************************************************
                prometheus wrote:

                Hello Ma-li,
                I thought I'd respond as well. For one
                thing I can't recommend anything to
                read, but I find many of the resources
                listed on this site to be interesting.

                As far as believing these and other sources
                of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
                and everything by the so called "experts." I
                definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
                seems to be selling something for one reason
                or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
                subjective, and is found within by each Soul.

                Ma-li wrote:
                [snip]
                "Would anyone like to share with me how you
                handled it when you decided to leave, and
                especially what did you do about the spiritual
                exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
                Eck Masters never really existed, except in
                writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                left but God?"

                *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
                many things in ECKankar just didn't make
                sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
                it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
                and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
                every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
                opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
                one dimensional stories didn't help either.
                I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
                my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
                believable to others.

                However, I've always known and had proof of
                Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
                I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
                of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
                and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
                amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
                or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
                long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
                because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
                in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
                HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
                can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a
                Contentment that I could never achieve while under
                the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
                up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
                new is it?

                "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
                beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
                the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
                the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
                warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
                IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
                the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
                IT IS ME, and I AM IT."

                *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
                and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
                observing Nature is very contemplative and
                peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
                The past tunes take one back to one's youth
                and beyond and into other times as does reading
                about or watching history on TV. It's good to
                know about how we became who we are and
                what we think we are in order to know more
                about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.

                "All this being said, I don't know what to do
                about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
                from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
                and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                If someone would care to share their experiences
                and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
                can use my private email if you'd prefer."

                *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
                Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
                buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
                because of friends and/or the promise of God-
                Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
                giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
                I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
                give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
                after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
                I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
                and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
                many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
                a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
                me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
                reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
                same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!

                [snip]
                Ma-li (also) wrote:
                "...Then the doubts and mental processes begin
                working until he's got himself almost convinced
                he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
                to go back and change answers because he also
                feels he did the best he could.

                What does he do to fill the empty space?"

                *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
                (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
                it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
                Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
                middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
                Masters in the making.

                When one follows another they give up their ability
                to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
                give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
                a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
                Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
                Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
                No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.

                Prometheus
              • drubezarne
                Hi Leanne, I think Ford s statements about Hu and Aum might be valid here. In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson, he says... I would ven­ture that
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 7 9:43 AM
                  Hi Leanne, I think Ford's statements about Hu and Aum might be valid here.

                  In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson, he says...

                  "I would ven­ture that God has no pref­er­ence and al­so that all
                  sounds and words are part of ALL THAT IS, and serve equal­ly well in
                  gar­ner­ing God's at­ten­tion."

                  and...

                  "The im­por­tant point is that all sounds or mantras can en­able the
                  in­di­vid­ual to tran­scend the phys­ical di­men­sion and
                  ex­pe­ri­ence the ec­stat­ic states and the in­ner planes...They all
                  work and can en­able the in­divid­ual to hear the re­mark­able and
                  awe-in­spir­ing sounds of the in­ner worlds. As­crib­ing greater
                  mag­ic to one sound or mantra over an­oth­er is much like ar­gu­ing
                  whose God is great­est. It is a mean­ing­less de­bate for ev­ery­thing
                  is part of the ONE. Fur­ther, when the prac­ti­tion­er has had some
                  ex­pe­ri­ence with these mantras and the in­ner ex­pe­ri­ences that
                  follow, she will come to the re­al­iza­tion that these are not
                  out­side sounds; they are a part of her."

                  and...

                  "The Va­lid­ity of Spir­itu­al Ex­er­cis­es. The ba­sic spir­itu­al
                  ex­er­cise of Eck, which Paul called "the easy way," is al­so the
                  ba­sic ex­er­cise of the Shabd Yo­ga tra­di­tion, and, as such,
                  car­ries with it the in­trin­sic va­lid­ity of this prac­tice in the
                  Yo­ga tradi­tion. In these teach­ings, the HU is sung "Hooooooo,"
                  where­as in Eck­ankar, it is sung "Hu­uu­uu­uuu" or "hugh" — Paul's
                  ef­fort to make it unique. The dif­fer­ence is of no re­al
                  sig­nif­icance. Each sound will work and should be con­tin­ued if it
                  works for you."

                  As to Ek Onkar; it is a Sikh term that means "God is One." Julian
                  Johnson's Path of the Masters mentions it. If you downloaded the .pdf
                  book, you can do a search for it in Acrobat.

                  Regards,
                  Liska

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Leanne Thompson
                  <le_anne_thompson@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar? I use HU-OM or
                  other sanskrit words.
                  >  
                  > BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found EK OM KAR. I
                  think it was a mantra or something like  that. Has anyone heard of that?
                  >  
                  > Thanks
                  > Leanne
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello Liska and All, It s interesting that Ford said, They all work and can enable the individual to hear the remarkable and awe-inspiring sounds of the INNER
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 7 12:26 PM
                    Hello Liska and All,
                    It's interesting that Ford said,
                    "They all work and can enable
                    the individual to hear the remarkable
                    and awe-inspiring sounds of the INNER
                    WORLDS. Ascribing greater MAGIC to
                    one sound or mantra over another is
                    much like arguing whose God is greatest."
                    [MY CAPS]

                    So, is Ford saying that these are Magical
                    sounds/mantras that have "intrinsic validity."
                    Isn't that a contradiction of terms? Or, is
                    he saying that most people see these as
                    magical words/sounds, but that these
                    have "intrinsic validity" in Shabd Yoga?
                    However, does Shabd Yoga have validity?
                    How much or with what? BTW- I wonder
                    which planes or "inner worlds" Ford was
                    referring to?

                    IMO it does seem that there is something
                    different with the vibratory rate of this
                    sound/mantra (HU) that makes it more
                    unique than the other (AUM), or Not!
                    Perhaps there are Universal sounds/mantras,
                    as well as, more specific ones that match
                    or enhance each person's/Soul's vibratory
                    rate of consciousness. And, this is why one
                    sound works better for one person than with
                    another person.

                    The other quote you gave by Ford was:

                    "The Validity of Spiritual Exercises.

                    The basic spiritual exercise of Eck, which Paul
                    called "the easy way," is also the basic exercise
                    of the Shabd Yoga tradition, and, as such, carries
                    with it the INTRINSIC VALIDITY of this practice
                    in the Yoga tradition. In these teachings, the
                    HU is sung "Hooooooo," where as in Eckankar,
                    it is sung "Huuuuuuu" or "hugh." [MY CAPS]

                    Personally, I often have trouble accepting any
                    promises and beliefs from any religion as valid
                    and, especially, from those religions that have
                    "Living Masters" who have set themselves up as
                    Masters/Godmen/Saviours/Prophets.

                    It is interesting about the HU being sung as
                    "Hooooooo" (who) and "Huuuuuuu" (hue/hugh).

                    I knew ECKists who would sing HU as "Hooooooo"
                    (who)! It was very strange and they sang loud!!!
                    I never did ask them why they did this, but they
                    believed they were part of Harry's inner (Inner)
                    Circle and were more special than most of his
                    RESAs. They had a small following at the major
                    EK Seminars and were very aloof towards the
                    RESA structure and toward rules and guidelines
                    in general. They usually ignored these or acted
                    As If they had no knowledge of these ESC approved
                    procedures. Delusion runs rampant in ECKankar!

                    Prometheus



                    Liska wrote:
                    Hi Leanne, I think Ford's statements about
                    Hu and Aum might be valid here.

                    In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson,
                    he says...

                    "I would venture that God has no preference
                    and also that all sounds and words are part
                    of ALL THAT IS, and serve equally well in
                    garnering God's attention."

                    and...

                    "The important point is that all sounds or
                    mantras can enable the individual to transcend
                    the physical dimension and experience the
                    ecstatic states and the inner planes... They
                    all work and can enable the individual to hear
                    the remarkable and awe-inspiring sounds
                    of the inner worlds. Ascribing greater magic
                    to one sound or mantra over another is much
                    like arguing whose God is greatest. It is a
                    meaningless debate for everything is part of
                    the ONE. Further, when the practitioner has
                    had some experience with these mantras and
                    the inner experiences that follow, she will
                    come to the realization that these are not
                    outside sounds; they are a part of her."

                    and...

                    "The Validity of Spiritual Exercises. The basic
                    spiritual exercise of Eck, which Paul called
                    "the easy way," is also the basic exercise of
                    the Shabd Yoga tradition, and, as such, carries
                    with it the INTRINSIC VALIDITY of this practice
                    in the Yoga tradition. In these teachings, the
                    HU is sung "Hooooooo," where as in Eckankar,
                    it is sung "Huuuuuuuu" or "hugh" — Paul's
                    effort to make it unique. The difference is of
                    no real significance. Each sound will work and
                    should be continued if it works for you."

                    ME: [My Caps]

                    As to Ek Onkar; it is a Sikh term that means
                    "God is One." Julian Johnson's Path of the Masters
                    mentions it. If you downloaded the .pdf
                    book, you can do a search for it in Acrobat.

                    Regards,
                    Liska


                    Leanne wrote:

                    Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar?
                    I use HU-OM or other sanskrit words.

                    BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found
                    EK OM KAR. I think it was a mantra or something like
                    that. Has anyone heard of that?

                    Thanks
                    Leanne
                    >
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.