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[EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Does anyone still HU or do different

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  • Leanne Thompson
    Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar? I use HU-OM or other sanskrit words.   BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found EK OM KAR. I think
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 4, 2008
      Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar? I use HU-OM or other sanskrit words.
       
      BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found EK OM KAR. I think it was a mantra or something like  that. Has anyone heard of that?
       
      Thanks
      Leanne

    • mishmisha9
      Hello Ma-li! I like your questions about filling in the empty spaces, what to do now? Likening it to finishing a 3 hour test in one hour, reminded me of my
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 5, 2008
        Hello Ma-li!

        I like your questions about filling in the empty spaces,
        what to do now? Likening it to finishing a 3 hour test in
        one hour, reminded me of my college days! Actually, I
        remember a few occasions when taking an exam that I
        did actually finish quite early . . . and I remember some
        self-doubts about why I finished it so quickly while others
        were still laboring over the exam. What did I do?? I turned
        the exam in and left the room! And then I did sort of a
        happy dance outside, glad to be free of that exam room . . .
        and how did I do? Well, I did quite well, because I had
        aced those exams, and I was free to go on to the next
        thing . . . and being a college student, I remember heading
        to the beach with some friends for one time and having so
        much fun. Can't quite remember on the other occasions, but
        if it was just before school break, I probably got an early
        start for home! So I guess my message is to trust yourself! : )

        Empty spaces are a luxury really, but they often come at a
        hard time, so there can be the feeling of loss . . . and we
        want to quickly fill it up again with something else. I think
        it is good to just take one's time and find things that are of
        interest. I remember one time in my life when I had to sort
        of re-invent myself. Every morning I'd ask myself what it
        was that I wanted and needed to do with my life to make
        myself happy. Happiness is so essential--it is not selfish to
        want to seek this IMO. My goals had to be reasonable and
        attainable goals--that was one stipulation I placed on myself.
        I finally defined what it was I wanted and wanted to do and
        then I looked for the ways to accomplish it all, one by one.

        I guess what I'm saying you have to ask yourself what it is
        you need and then find the ways to have it. But take your
        time and enjoy the freedom of those empty spaces because
        they allow you freedom for introspection which is needed to
        take the next steps--all by your own choices and decisions!

        Good luck! And I'd like to offer a couple of books for reading
        as well. One member of our site who left eckankar after 30
        years found Jed McKenna's book "Spiritual Enlightenment, the
        Damnest Thing" to greatly help her to handle the void. She
        still says it is the best book! I also like Sam Harris' book "The
        End of Faith", and also enjoyed Bill Moyers TV series on "On Faith
        and Reason" to be quite valuable. You can google for the Bill
        Moyers series to find and read the transcripts.

        Mish

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Ma-li <mhstarlings@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Non ekster et al,
        >  
        > It's not so much that I'm searching for anything, it's more like I'm living in the Now all
        the time. However, on another level, I think/feel that I should be doing/being something
        more than just being.  Don't know if that makes sense, so I'll liken it to the student who
        finishes a 3 hour test in an hour.  What does he do for the other 2 hours...just sit there
        quietly, leave the room, or go back over the test yet again?  He's in a quandry, and it
        doesn't feel right that he's finished early. Then the doubts and mental processes begin
        working until he's got himself almost convinced he really screwed up the test, but he
        doesn't want to go back and change answers because he also feels he did the best he
        could.  What does he do to fill the empty space?
        >  
        > Namaste
        >  
        > Ma-li
        >
        > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Non ekster <eckchains@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Non ekster <eckchains@...>
        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:02 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Sometimes it's best to just stop Searching.
        >
        > Non ekster ; )
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mhstarlings"
        > <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello All,
        > >
        > > I have come to the place where I was in 1973 before I joined
        > > Eckankar. The difference is whatI know now, and all the years of Eck
        > > teachings that have filled those years up to maybe 7 years ago.
        > > Seven years is how long it's been since I felt "right" about
        > > remaining in Eckankar, and it's taken me this long to find answers,
        > > and to make the decision to sever my ties with it.
        > >
        > > Would anyone like to share with me how you handled it when you
        > > decided to leave, and especially what did you do about the spiritual
        > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the Eck Masters never
        > > really existed, except in writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
        > > left but God?
        > >
        > > God has always been the "real" aspect of my beliefs. IT is in
        > > everything, be it rocks, trees, the two-legged beings, the four-
        > > legged beings, the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the warm
        > > Summer breeze that tickles the leaves. IT is the rain that gives
        > > and sustains life for the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in
        > > everything. IT IS ME, and I AM IT.
        > >
        > > All this being said, I don't know what to do about spiritual
        > > exercises, or how to progress from here. It's like I'm standing
        > > alone once again, and need to make a choice about what to do next.
        > > If someone would care to share their experiences and choices from
        > > this point, I'd appreciate it. You can use my private email if
        > > you'd prefer.
        > >
        > > Thank you all for being here, and thank you so much Prometheus for
        > > creating this forum for people like me to find when they search for
        > > the answers.
        > >
        > > Namaste
        > >
        > > Ma-li
        > >
        >
      • drubezarne
        Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about Eckankar s charlatans and other frauds who want to act as intermediaries between God and Soul.
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 5, 2008
          Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about
          Eckankar's charlatans and other frauds who want to act as
          intermediaries between God and Soul. On the other hand, concerning
          your views about all other teachings I would have to disagree.

          When I look closely at certain teachings or teachers who seem sincere
          in their approach to bringing out truth, I detect a subtle golden
          thread that runs throughout history. I'm not interested in the
          limitations of orthodoxy or its insistence that I'm supposed to
          imitate their way of life. Instead, I try to find writers who seem
          honest and aren't looking for followers to make their living from or
          boost their egos.

          I take what I think sounds true and test it out for myself. For
          example, I found Neville's "as if" principle extremely effective in
          meditation/contemplation. On the inner planes, thinking and
          visualization bring about events very quickly and that's when
          assumptions can take me very far. After a while, I drop them because
          they are no longer necessary.

          The sound paths such as Sant Mat are helpful for getting into a trance
          state while still retaining awareness. They are useful for numbing the
          body and moving the consciousness beyond physical awareness. However,
          I don't believe in focusing on or visualizing a master. I prefer to
          place my attention on the formless.

          Laurency's writings about Pythagorean Hylozoics appears to give one of
          the best explanations for our existence.

          By the way, Mish and Liz, I listened to the Jed McKenna audio books
          and found a lot of references to Ramana Maharshi's writings. McKenna's
          books influenced me to look into Maharshi's works. Ford's book
          motivated me to look into Laurency's writings.

          My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people's
          works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day
          mundane existence.

          I don't believe in masters, but I do believe in teachers. If I want to
          learn how to play piano, I'll find someone to teach me. The teacher is
          there to show me the quickest and best way to get there, while my role
          is to practice and develop my own style of playing.

          All of us on this forum have been victims of the Eckankar racket and I
          don't blame people for becoming cynics and debunkers of all
          spiritual/religious teachings after leaving Eckankar. As for myself, I
          don't plan to spend much more time putting my energies into debunking
          Eckankar. The critical faculty has its uses, but when taken to the
          extreme it kills off idealism. There's a lot more I want to explore
          and test before declaring "Everyone seems to be selling something for
          one reason or another."

          Call me an optimist, but I believe there are and were a few select
          individuals who just wanted to bring out the truth because they woke
          up to or achieved a certain high state of awareness. So, I don't think
          selling, promoting, and persuading were their goals in life.

          Regards
          Liska

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Ma-li,
          > I thought I'd respond as well. For one
          > thing I can't recommend anything to
          > read, but I find many of the resources
          > listed on this site to be interesting.
          >
          > As far as believing these and other sources
          > of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
          > and everything by the so called "experts." I
          > definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
          > seems to be selling something for one reason
          > or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
          > subjective, and is found within by each Soul.
          >
          >
          >
          > Ma-li wrote:
          > [snip]
          > "Would anyone like to share with me how you
          > handled it when you decided to leave, and
          > especially what did you do about the spiritual
          > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
          > Eck Masters never really existed, except in
          > writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
          > left but God?"
          >
          >
          >
          > *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
          > many things in ECKankar just didn't make
          > sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
          > it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
          > and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
          > every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
          > opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
          > one dimensional stories didn't help either.
          > I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
          > my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
          > believable to others.
          >
          > However, I've always known and had proof of
          > Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
          > I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
          > of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
          > and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
          > amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
          > or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
          > long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
          > because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
          > in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
          > HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
          > can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a
          > Contentment that I could never achieve while under
          > the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
          > up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
          > new is it?
          >
          >
          >
          > "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
          > beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
          > the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
          > the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
          > warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
          > IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
          > the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
          > IT IS ME, and I AM IT."
          >
          >
          >
          > *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
          > and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
          > observing Nature is very contemplative and
          > peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
          > The past tunes take one back to one's youth
          > and beyond and into other times as does reading
          > about or watching history on TV. It's good to
          > know about how we became who we are and
          > what we think we are in order to know more
          > about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.
          >
          >
          >
          > "All this being said, I don't know what to do
          > about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
          > from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
          > and need to make a choice about what to do next.
          > If someone would care to share their experiences
          > and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
          > can use my private email if you'd prefer."
          >
          >
          >
          > *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
          > Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
          > buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
          > because of friends and/or the promise of God-
          > Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
          > giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
          > I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
          > give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
          > after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
          > I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
          > and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
          > many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
          > a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
          > me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
          > reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
          > same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [snip]
          > Ma-li (also) wrote:
          > "...Then the doubts and mental processes begin
          > working until he's got himself almost convinced
          > he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
          > to go back and change answers because he also
          > feels he did the best he could.
          >
          > What does he do to fill the empty space?"
          >
          >
          >
          > *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
          > (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
          > it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
          > Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
          > middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
          > Masters in the making.
          >
          > When one follows another they give up their ability
          > to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
          > give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
          > a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
          > Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
          > Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
          > No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
        • etznab@aol.com
          All this being said, I don t know what to do about spiritual exercises, or how to progress from here. It s like I m standing alone once again, and need to
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 5, 2008
            "All this being said, I don't know what to do
            about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
            from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
            and need to make a choice about what to do next.
            If someone would care to share their experiences
            and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
            can use my private email if you'd prefer."

            Ma-Li,

            I still think one can ask their questions and the
            "universe" will answer.

            Do you like to read books? This is where I get a
            lot of answers to my questions.

            There is this book, with a tacky looking cover &
            a tacky sounding name. Inside the cover though, I
            found it to be anything but tacky. It's called: Punk
            Science, Inside the Mind of God, by Dr. Manjir
            Samanta-Laughton. I saw a book review for it in an
            HCS Newsletter some time ago. Just read it again
            for about the third time.

            Maybe you have another way for connecting and
            receiving guidance from the universe. I'd say follow
            that. Take some initiative and don't give up. See
            what comes.

            This is what impressed me the most about what
            were in the teachings of Eckankar. That I didn't
            have to wait around & depend on other people for
            the answers to everything. Of course, if you depend
            on organized religion for all the answers it could be
            a long wait, IMO. In my experience it was always a
            form of "giving up initiative" - just plain giving up per-
            iod! that left
            me feeling helpless and dependent on
            some invisible "God" as if it were separate from my-
            self that I had to wait around for. That was the real
            bummer for me.

            I would say try what you know works for you. If
            the old methods do not work anymore then initiate
            something new. Don't feel you have to share what
            methods work for you either, or whether they are
            approved of and / or work for other people that you
            know. Find what works for you. That would be my
            advice. If you have a hobby, or something that you
            love to do, maybe explore that.

            Years ago, after I lost something that I loved very
            much, I realized that I had to replace it with some-
            thing in order to fill the void. I invested in another
            love of mine. One that I had since my youth. I had
            a love for words, and for poetry. So I explored the
            subject of words. I put a lot of time into that and it
            grew and grew into something bigger. It took me in-
            to other areas that I loved just as much, like history
            in general. Ancient history, history of religions and
            the history of words became my new friends and I
            got to know them better and better over the years.
            For some reason this is what I love to do. I can do
            it for hours on end and it doesn't feel like "work", if
            you know what I mean. I don't get paid a dollar for
            it either, but it brings a lot of satisfaction because, I
            think, whenever a person develops a talent=2
            0& moves
            in the direction of mastership toward something it
            puts them in a position of being more self sufficient
            and less dependent on others. It also gives them a
            gift that they can share with others. IMO.

            Don't know if this helps, but maybe something
            to consider at least. If in the future, after you find
            something that helps, if it's something you would
            like to share (if you choose) then maybe it could
            be posted here and it will help somebody else in
            a similar situation.

            I know that, for myself, I still feel other voids
            which need to be filled. Every time I find something
            that doesn't work the same (or not at all) anymore
            it leaves a kind of void and I have to do something
            about it. Maybe nothing has to be done, in every
            case, but I'd suspect that most people eventually
            learn to find something better than what they had
            before.

            This is kinda long already. Sorry for the length.

            Etznab

            -----Original Message-----
            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:26 pm
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?



            Hello Ma-li,

            I thought I'd respond as well. For one

            thing I can't recommend anything to

            read, but I find many of the resources

            listed on this site to be interesting.



            As far as believing these and other sources

            of info I don't! It's too easily to accept20anything

            and everything by the so called "experts." I

            definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone

            seems to be selling something for one reason

            or another. The Truth is out there, is usually

            subjective, and is found within by each Soul.



            Ma-li wrote:

            [snip]

            "Would anyone like to share with me how you

            handled it when you decided to leave, and

            especially what did you do about the spiritual

            exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the

            Eck Masters never really existed, except in

            writers' fertile minds, then who/what is

            left but God?"



            *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that

            many things in ECKankar just didn't make

            sense and didn't add up even though I wanted

            it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,

            and in the initiations but it was getting tougher

            every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s

            opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and

            one dimensional stories didn't help either.

            I found that I had to put blinders on and hold

            my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound

            believable to others.



            However, I've always known and had proof of

            Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).

            I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How

            of many specifics outside of my realm of experience

            and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk0D

            amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises

            or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many

            long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises

            because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking

            in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still

            HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I

            can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a

            Contentment that I could never achieve while under

            the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give

            up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing

            new is it?



            "God has always been the "real" aspect of my

            beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,

            the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,

            the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the

            warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.

            IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for

            the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.

            IT IS ME, and I AM IT."



            *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside

            and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and

            observing Nature is very contemplative and

            peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!

            The past tunes take one back to one's youth

            and beyond and into other times as does reading

            about or watching history on TV. It's good to

            know about how we became who we are and

            what we think we are in order to kno
            w more

            about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.



            "All this being said, I don't know what to do

            about spiritual exercises, or how to progress

            from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,

            and need to make a choice about what to do next.

            If someone would care to share their experiences

            and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You

            can use my private email if you'd prefer."



            *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.

            Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you

            buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it

            because of friends and/or the promise of God-

            Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble

            giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.

            I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would

            give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies

            after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after

            I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together

            and I saw the con and the realized why there were so

            many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or

            a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to

            me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my

            reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the

            same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!



            [snip]

            Ma-li (also) wrote:

            "...Then the doubts and mental processes beg
            in

            working until he's got himself almost convinced

            he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want

            to go back and change answers because he also

            feels he did the best he could.



            What does he do to fill the empty space?"



            *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time

            (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole

            it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!

            Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'

            middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own

            Masters in the making.



            When one follows another they give up their ability

            to choose and to discover their own Truth. They

            give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need

            a religion to believe in when they can't believe in

            Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in

            Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.

            No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.



            Prometheus



















            =0
            A
          • etznab@aol.com
            Mish, I probably shoulda read all the threads for today first, before responding to Ma-Li. I think if I had read your response first, I probably would have
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 5, 2008
              Mish,

              I probably shoulda read all the threads for today
              first, before responding to Ma-Li. I think if I had read
              your response first, I probably would have said much
              less myself. It sounded like some good advice to me.
              What you shared, Mish.

              Etznab

              -----Original Message-----
              From: mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 9:16 am
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?



              Hello Ma-li!



              I like your questions about filling in the empty spaces,

              what to do now? Likening it to finishing a 3 hour test in

              one hour, reminded me of my college days! Actually, I

              remember a few occasions when taking an exam that I

              did actually finish quite early . . . and I remember some

              self-doubts about why I finished it so quickly while others

              were still laboring over the exam. What did I do?? I turned

              the exam in and left the room! And then I did sort of a

              happy dance outside, glad to be free of that exam room . . .

              and how did I do? Well, I did quite well, because I had

              aced those exams, and I was free to go on to the next

              thing . . . and being a college student, I remember heading

              to the beach with some friends for one time and having so

              much fun. Can't quite remember on the other occasions, but

              if it was just before school break, I probably got an early


              start for home! So I guess my message is to trust yourself! : )



              Empty spaces are a luxury really, but they often come at a

              hard time, so there can be the feeling of loss . . . and we

              want to quickly fill it up again with something else. I think

              it is good to just take one's time and find things that are of

              interest. I remember one time in my life when I had to sort

              of re-invent myself. Every morning I'd ask myself what it

              was that I wanted and needed to do with my life to make

              myself happy. Happiness is so essential--it is not selfish to

              want to seek this IMO. My goals had to be reasonable and

              attainable goals--that was one stipulation I placed on myself.

              I finally defined what it was I wanted and wanted to do and

              then I looked for the ways to accomplish it all, one by one.



              I guess what I'm saying you have to ask yourself what it is

              you need and then find the ways to have it. But take your

              time and enjoy the freedom of those empty spaces because

              they allow you freedom for introspection which is needed to

              take the next steps--all by your own choices and decisions!



              Good luck! And I'd like to offer a couple of books for reading

              as well. One member of our site who left eckankar after 30

              years found Jed McKenna's book "Spiritual Enlightenment, the

              Damnest Thing" to greatly help her to handle
              the void. She

              still says it is the best book! I also like Sam Harris' book "The

              End of Faith", and also enjoyed Bill Moyers TV series on "On Faith

              and Reason" to be quite valuable. You can google for the Bill

              Moyers series to find and read the transcripts.



              Mish



              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Ma-li
              <mhstarlings@...> wrote:

              >

              > Hello Non ekster et al,

              >  

              > It's not so much that I'm searching for anything, it's more like
              I'm living in the Now all

              the time. However, on another level, I think/feel that I should be
              doing/being something

              more than just being.  Don't know if that makes sense, so I'll liken it
              to the student who

              finishes a 3 hour test in an hour.  What does he do for the other 2
              hours...just sit there

              quietly, leave the room, or go back over the test yet again?  He's in a
              quandry, and it

              doesn't feel right that he's finished early. Then the doubts and mental
              processes begin

              working until he's got himself almost convinced he really screwed up
              the test, but he

              doesn't want to go back and change answers because he also feels he did
              the best he

              could.  What does he do to fill the empty space?

              >  

              > Namaste

              >  

              > Ma-li

              >

              > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Non ekster <eckchains@...> wrote:


              >

              > From: Non ekster <eckchains@...>

              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?

              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com

              > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:02 AM

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              > Sometimes it's best to just stop Searching.

              >

              > Non ekster ; )

              >

              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mhstarlings"

              > <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:

              > >

              > > Hello All,

              > >

              > > I have come to the place where I was in 1973 before I joined

              > > Eckankar. The difference is whatI know now, and all the years
              of Eck

              > > teachings that have filled those years up to maybe 7 years
              ago.

              > > Seven years is how long it's been since I felt "right" about

              > > remaining in Eckankar, and it's taken me this long to find
              answers,

              > > and to make the decision to sever my ties with it.

              > >

              > > Would anyone like to share with me how you handled it when
              you

              > > decided to leave, and especially what did you do about the
              spiritual

              > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the Eck Masters
              never

              > > really existed, except in writers' fertile minds, then
              who/what is

              > > left but God?

              > >

              > > God has
              always been the "real" aspect of my beliefs. IT is in

              > > everything, be it rocks, trees, the two-legged beings, the
              four-

              > > legged beings, the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
              warm

              > > Summer breeze that tickles the leaves. IT is the rain that
              gives

              > > and sustains life for the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in

              > > everything. IT IS ME, and I AM IT.

              > >

              > > All this being said, I don't know what to do about spiritual

              > > exercises, or how to progress from here. It's like I'm
              standing

              > > alone once again, and need to make a choice about what to do
              next.

              > > If someone would care to share their experiences and choices
              from

              > > this point, I'd appreciate it. You can use my private email
              if

              > > you'd prefer.

              > >

              > > Thank you all for being here, and thank you so much
              Prometheus for

              > > creating this forum for people like me to find when they
              search for

              > > the answers.

              > >

              > > Namaste

              > >

              > > Ma-li

              > >

              >
            • etznab@aol.com
              My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people s works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day mundane existence. I
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 5, 2008
                "My primary goal is personal experience,
                but reading other people's works helps focus
                my attention on something greater than day
                to day mundane existence."

                I agree that a lot can be learned from
                others, while at the same time I suspect
                there is a not so well noticed connection
                between how people search and what they
                actually find.

                What I mean to say is that I believe one's
                paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
                happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
                replaced by another. A better one. Because
                the former seems to become old and like all
                the juice squeezed out of the lemon.

                Not wishing, or taking an initiative, might
                seem to leave the same old, same old over
                and over like a broken record.

                This is one of the traps I have found myself
                in time and time again. By limiting myself to
                only certain specific paradigms, listening and
                reading only certain specific authors and then
                thinking along only certain specific lines.

                I like to meet a variety of different people &
                hear about a variety of different experiences.
                In fact, I think if one would consider how many
                different people there are in the world, and that
                much potential for experience were available to
                them, it might not sound too impossible how
                one part of the "universe" could answer another
                part. I suspect initiative at both ends of relation-
                ships.

                Etznab

                -----Original Message-----
                From: drubezarn
                e <drubezarne@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:16 am
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?



                Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about

                Eckankar's charlatans and other frauds who want to act as

                intermediaries between God and Soul. On the other hand, concerning

                your views about all other teachings I would have to disagree.



                When I look closely at certain teachings or teachers who seem sincere

                in their approach to bringing out truth, I detect a subtle golden

                thread that runs throughout history. I'm not interested in the

                limitations of orthodoxy or its insistence that I'm supposed to

                imitate their way of life. Instead, I try to find writers who seem

                honest and aren't looking for followers to make their living from or

                boost their egos.



                I take what I think sounds true and test it out for myself. For

                example, I found Neville's "as if" principle extremely effective in

                meditation/contemplation. On the inner planes, thinking and

                visualization bring about events very quickly and that's when

                assumptions can take me very far. After a while, I drop them because

                they are no longer necessary.



                The sound paths such as Sant Mat are helpful for getting into a trance

                state while still retaining awareness. They are useful for numbing the

                body and moving the consciousness beyond physical a
                wareness. However,

                I don't believe in focusing on or visualizing a master. I prefer to

                place my attention on the formless.



                Laurency's writings about Pythagorean Hylozoics appears to give one of

                the best explanations for our existence.



                By the way, Mish and Liz, I listened to the Jed McKenna audio books

                and found a lot of references to Ramana Maharshi's writings. McKenna's

                books influenced me to look into Maharshi's works. Ford's book

                motivated me to look into Laurency's writings.



                My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people's

                works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day

                mundane existence.



                I don't believe in masters, but I do believe in teachers. If I want to

                learn how to play piano, I'll find someone to teach me. The teacher is

                there to show me the quickest and best way to get there, while my role

                is to practice and develop my own style of playing.



                All of us on this forum have been victims of the Eckankar racket and I

                don't blame people for becoming cynics and debunkers of all

                spiritual/religious teachings after leaving Eckankar. As for myself, I

                don't plan to spend much more time putting my energies into debunking

                Eckankar. The critical faculty has its uses, but when taken to the

                extreme it kills off idealism. There's a lot more I want to explore

                and test before20declaring "Everyone seems to be selling something for

                one reason or another."



                Call me an optimist, but I believe there are and were a few select

                individuals who just wanted to bring out the truth because they woke

                up to or achieved a certain high state of awareness. So, I don't think

                selling, promoting, and persuading were their goals in life.



                Regards

                Liska



                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"

                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                >

                > Hello Ma-li,

                > I thought I'd respond as well. For one

                > thing I can't recommend anything to

                > read, but I find many of the resources

                > listed on this site to be interesting.

                >

                > As far as believing these and other sources

                > of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything

                > and everything by the so called "experts." I

                > definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone

                > seems to be selling something for one reason

                > or another. The Truth is out there, is usually

                > subjective, and is found within by each Soul.

                >

                >

                >

                > Ma-li wrote:

                > [snip]

                > "Would anyone like to share with me how you

                > handled it when you decided to leave, and

                > especially what did you do about the spiritual

                > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the

                >
                ; Eck Masters never really existed, except in

                > writers' fertile minds, then who/what is

                > left but God?"

                >

                >

                >

                > *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that

                > many things in ECKankar just didn't make

                > sense and didn't add up even though I wanted

                > it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,

                > and in the initiations but it was getting tougher

                > every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s

                > opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and

                > one dimensional stories didn't help either.

                > I found that I had to put blinders on and hold

                > my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound

                > believable to others.

                >

                > However, I've always known and had proof of

                > Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).

                > I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How

                > of many specifics outside of my realm of experience

                > and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk

                > amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises

                > or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many

                > long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises

                > because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking

                > in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still

                > HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I

                > can experience a
                Oneness with All There Is and a

                > Contentment that I could never achieve while under

                > the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give

                > up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing

                > new is it?

                >

                >

                >

                > "God has always been the "real" aspect of my

                > beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,

                > the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,

                > the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the

                > warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.

                > IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for

                > the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.

                > IT IS ME, and I AM IT."

                >

                >

                >

                > *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside

                > and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and

                > observing Nature is very contemplative and

                > peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!

                > The past tunes take one back to one's youth

                > and beyond and into other times as does reading

                > about or watching history on TV. It's good to

                > know about how we became who we are and

                > what we think we are in order to know more

                > about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.

                >

                >

                >

                > "All this being said, I don't know what to do

                > about spiritual exercises, or how to progres
                s

                > from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,

                > and need to make a choice about what to do next.

                > If someone would care to share their experiences

                > and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You

                > can use my private email if you'd prefer."

                >

                >

                >

                > *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.

                > Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you

                > buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it

                > because of friends and/or the promise of God-

                > Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble

                > giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.

                > I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would

                > give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies

                > after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after

                > I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together

                > and I saw the con and the realized why there were so

                > many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or

                > a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to

                > me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my

                > reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the

                > same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > [snip]

                > Ma-li (also) wrote:

                > "...Then the doubts
                and mental processes begin

                > working until he's got himself almost convinced

                > he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want

                > to go back and change answers because he also

                > feels he did the best he could.

                >

                > What does he do to fill the empty space?"

                >

                >

                >

                > *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time

                > (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole

                > it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!

                > Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'

                > middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own

                > Masters in the making.

                >

                > When one follows another they give up their ability

                > to choose and to discover their own Truth. They

                > give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need

                > a religion to believe in when they can't believe in

                > Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in

                > Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.

                > No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.

                >

                > Prometheus

                >
              • drubezarne
                Etznab, your comments are constructive and I concur with what you said below... I agree that a lot can be learned from others, while at the same time I
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                  Etznab, your comments are constructive and I concur with what you said
                  below...

                  "I agree that a lot can be learned from
                  others, while at the same time I suspect
                  there is a not so well noticed connection
                  between how people search and what they
                  actually find.

                  What I mean to say is that I believe one's
                  paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
                  happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
                  replaced by another. A better one. Because
                  the former seems to become old and like all
                  the juice squeezed out of the lemon."

                  Due to the temporary nature of this world and everything in it, all
                  things have their place and value in time. As individual consciousness
                  evolves, old concepts no longer fit and the Soul moves on to newer and
                  greater horizons. It's what we all did when we rejected the idea of an
                  infallible master. I myself, realized that there is only God - Soul
                  and nothing in-between. Anyone who declares themselves an intermediary
                  between God and Soul is a fraud.

                  Regards
                  Liska

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > "My primary goal is personal experience,
                  > but reading other people's works helps focus
                  > my attention on something greater than day
                  > to day mundane existence."
                  >
                  > I agree that a lot can be learned from
                  > others, while at the same time I suspect
                  > there is a not so well noticed connection
                  > between how people search and what they
                  > actually find.
                  >
                  > What I mean to say is that I believe one's
                  > paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
                  > happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
                  > replaced by another. A better one. Because
                  > the former seems to become old and like all
                  > the juice squeezed out of the lemon.
                  >
                  > Not wishing, or taking an initiative, might
                  > seem to leave the same old, same old over
                  > and over like a broken record.
                  >
                  > This is one of the traps I have found myself
                  > in time and time again. By limiting myself to
                  > only certain specific paradigms, listening and
                  > reading only certain specific authors and then
                  > thinking along only certain specific lines.
                  >
                  > I like to meet a variety of different people &
                  > hear about a variety of different experiences.
                  > In fact, I think if one would consider how many
                  > different people there are in the world, and that
                  > much potential for experience were available to
                  > them, it might not sound too impossible how
                  > one part of the "universe" could answer another
                  > part. I suspect initiative at both ends of relation-
                  > ships.
                  >
                  > Etznab
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: drubezarn
                  > e <drubezarne@...>
                  > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:16 am
                  > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about
                  >
                  > Eckankar's charlatans and other frauds who want to act as
                  >
                  > intermediaries between God and Soul. On the other hand, concerning
                  >
                  > your views about all other teachings I would have to disagree.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > When I look closely at certain teachings or teachers who seem sincere
                  >
                  > in their approach to bringing out truth, I detect a subtle golden
                  >
                  > thread that runs throughout history. I'm not interested in the
                  >
                  > limitations of orthodoxy or its insistence that I'm supposed to
                  >
                  > imitate their way of life. Instead, I try to find writers who seem
                  >
                  > honest and aren't looking for followers to make their living from or
                  >
                  > boost their egos.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I take what I think sounds true and test it out for myself. For
                  >
                  > example, I found Neville's "as if" principle extremely effective in
                  >
                  > meditation/contemplation. On the inner planes, thinking and
                  >
                  > visualization bring about events very quickly and that's when
                  >
                  > assumptions can take me very far. After a while, I drop them because
                  >
                  > they are no longer necessary.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The sound paths such as Sant Mat are helpful for getting into a trance
                  >
                  > state while still retaining awareness. They are useful for numbing the
                  >
                  > body and moving the consciousness beyond physical a
                  > wareness. However,
                  >
                  > I don't believe in focusing on or visualizing a master. I prefer to
                  >
                  > place my attention on the formless.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Laurency's writings about Pythagorean Hylozoics appears to give one of
                  >
                  > the best explanations for our existence.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > By the way, Mish and Liz, I listened to the Jed McKenna audio books
                  >
                  > and found a lot of references to Ramana Maharshi's writings. McKenna's
                  >
                  > books influenced me to look into Maharshi's works. Ford's book
                  >
                  > motivated me to look into Laurency's writings.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people's
                  >
                  > works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day
                  >
                  > mundane existence.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I don't believe in masters, but I do believe in teachers. If I want to
                  >
                  > learn how to play piano, I'll find someone to teach me. The teacher is
                  >
                  > there to show me the quickest and best way to get there, while my role
                  >
                  > is to practice and develop my own style of playing.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > All of us on this forum have been victims of the Eckankar racket and I
                  >
                  > don't blame people for becoming cynics and debunkers of all
                  >
                  > spiritual/religious teachings after leaving Eckankar. As for myself, I
                  >
                  > don't plan to spend much more time putting my energies into debunking
                  >
                  > Eckankar. The critical faculty has its uses, but when taken to the
                  >
                  > extreme it kills off idealism. There's a lot more I want to explore
                  >
                  > and test before20declaring "Everyone seems to be selling something for
                  >
                  > one reason or another."
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Call me an optimist, but I believe there are and were a few select
                  >
                  > individuals who just wanted to bring out the truth because they woke
                  >
                  > up to or achieved a certain high state of awareness. So, I don't think
                  >
                  > selling, promoting, and persuading were their goals in life.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Regards
                  >
                  > Liska
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                  >
                  > prometheus_973@ wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Hello Ma-li,
                  >
                  > > I thought I'd respond as well. For one
                  >
                  > > thing I can't recommend anything to
                  >
                  > > read, but I find many of the resources
                  >
                  > > listed on this site to be interesting.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > As far as believing these and other sources
                  >
                  > > of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
                  >
                  > > and everything by the so called "experts." I
                  >
                  > > definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
                  >
                  > > seems to be selling something for one reason
                  >
                  > > or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
                  >
                  > > subjective, and is found within by each Soul.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Ma-li wrote:
                  >
                  > > [snip]
                  >
                  > > "Would anyone like to share with me how you
                  >
                  > > handled it when you decided to leave, and
                  >
                  > > especially what did you do about the spiritual
                  >
                  > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
                  >
                  > >
                  > ; Eck Masters never really existed, except in
                  >
                  > > writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                  >
                  > > left but God?"
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
                  >
                  > > many things in ECKankar just didn't make
                  >
                  > > sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
                  >
                  > > it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
                  >
                  > > and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
                  >
                  > > every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
                  >
                  > > opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
                  >
                  > > one dimensional stories didn't help either.
                  >
                  > > I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
                  >
                  > > my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
                  >
                  > > believable to others.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > However, I've always known and had proof of
                  >
                  > > Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
                  >
                  > > I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
                  >
                  > > of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
                  >
                  > > and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
                  >
                  > > amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
                  >
                  > > or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
                  >
                  > > long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
                  >
                  > > because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
                  >
                  > > in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
                  >
                  > > HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
                  >
                  > > can experience a
                  > Oneness with All There Is and a
                  >
                  > > Contentment that I could never achieve while under
                  >
                  > > the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
                  >
                  > > up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
                  >
                  > > new is it?
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
                  >
                  > > beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
                  >
                  > > the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
                  >
                  > > the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
                  >
                  > > warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
                  >
                  > > IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
                  >
                  > > the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
                  >
                  > > IT IS ME, and I AM IT."
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
                  >
                  > > and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
                  >
                  > > observing Nature is very contemplative and
                  >
                  > > peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
                  >
                  > > The past tunes take one back to one's youth
                  >
                  > > and beyond and into other times as does reading
                  >
                  > > about or watching history on TV. It's good to
                  >
                  > > know about how we became who we are and
                  >
                  > > what we think we are in order to know more
                  >
                  > > about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > "All this being said, I don't know what to do
                  >
                  > > about spiritual exercises, or how to progres
                  > s
                  >
                  > > from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
                  >
                  > > and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                  >
                  > > If someone would care to share their experiences
                  >
                  > > and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
                  >
                  > > can use my private email if you'd prefer."
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
                  >
                  > > Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
                  >
                  > > buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
                  >
                  > > because of friends and/or the promise of God-
                  >
                  > > Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
                  >
                  > > giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
                  >
                  > > I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
                  >
                  > > give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
                  >
                  > > after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
                  >
                  > > I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
                  >
                  > > and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
                  >
                  > > many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
                  >
                  > > a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
                  >
                  > > me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
                  >
                  > > reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
                  >
                  > > same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > [snip]
                  >
                  > > Ma-li (also) wrote:
                  >
                  > > "...Then the doubts
                  > and mental processes begin
                  >
                  > > working until he's got himself almost convinced
                  >
                  > > he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
                  >
                  > > to go back and change answers because he also
                  >
                  > > feels he did the best he could.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > What does he do to fill the empty space?"
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
                  >
                  > > (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
                  >
                  > > it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
                  >
                  > > Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
                  >
                  > > middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
                  >
                  > > Masters in the making.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > When one follows another they give up their ability
                  >
                  > > to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
                  >
                  > > give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
                  >
                  > > a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
                  >
                  > > Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
                  >
                  > > Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
                  >
                  > > No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Prometheus
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                • Ma-li
                  Liska,   I totally agree with what you stated in your last paragraph.  Would that I had known that years aog, it might have saved me a lot of problems. 
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                    Liska,
                     
                    I totally agree with what you stated in your last paragraph.  Would that I had known that years aog, it might have saved me a lot of problems.  However, then I would not have learned all the truths I did find thru Eckankar, and for that I'm eternally grateful.  I'm right where I'm supposed to be, in the perfect place and in the perfect moment.
                     
                    Namaste,
                     
                    Ma-li

                    --- On Sat, 12/6/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
                    From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                    Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
                    To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 11:52 AM

                    Etznab, your comments are constructive and I concur with what you said
                    below...

                    "I agree that a lot can be learned from
                    others, while at the same time I suspect
                    there is a not so well noticed connection
                    between how people search and what they
                    actually find.

                    What I mean to say is that I believe one's
                    paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
                    happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
                    replaced by another. A better one. Because
                    the former seems to become old and like all
                    the juice squeezed out of the lemon."

                    Due to the temporary nature of this world and everything in it, all
                    things have their place and value in time. As individual consciousness
                    evolves, old concepts no longer fit and the Soul moves on to newer and
                    greater horizons. It's what we all did when we rejected the idea of an
                    infallible master. I myself, realized that there is only God - Soul
                    and nothing in-between. Anyone who declares themselves an intermediary
                    between God and Soul is a fraud.

                    Regards
                    Liska

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > "My primary goal is personal experience,
                    > but reading other people's works helps focus
                    > my attention on something greater than day
                    > to day mundane existence."
                    >
                    > I agree that a lot can be learned from
                    > others, while at the same time I suspect
                    > there is a not so well noticed connection
                    > between how people search and what they
                    > actually find.
                    >
                    > What I mean to say is that I believe one's
                    > paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
                    > happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
                    > replaced by another. A better one. Because
                    > the former seems to become old and like all
                    > the juice squeezed out of the lemon.
                    >
                    > Not wishing, or taking an initiative, might
                    > seem to leave the same old, same old over
                    > and over like a broken record.
                    >
                    > This is one of the traps I have found myself
                    > in time and time again. By limiting myself to
                    > only certain specific paradigms, listening and
                    > reading only certain specific authors and then
                    > thinking along only certain specific lines.
                    >
                    > I like to meet a variety of different people &
                    > hear about a variety of different experiences.
                    > In fact, I think if one would consider how many
                    > different people there are in the world, and that
                    > much potential for experience were available to
                    > them, it might not sound too impossible how
                    > one part of the "universe" could answer another
                    > part. I suspect initiative at both ends of relation-
                    > ships.
                    >
                    > Etznab
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: drubezarn
                    > e <drubezarne@ ...>
                    > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
                    > Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:16 am
                    > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: What now?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about
                    >
                    > Eckankar's charlatans and other frauds who want to act as
                    >
                    > intermediaries between God and Soul. On the other hand, concerning
                    >
                    > your views about all other teachings I would have to disagree.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > When I look closely at certain teachings or teachers who seem sincere
                    >
                    > in their approach to bringing out truth, I detect a subtle golden
                    >
                    > thread that runs throughout history. I'm not interested in the
                    >
                    > limitations of orthodoxy or its insistence that I'm supposed to
                    >
                    > imitate their way of life. Instead, I try to find writers who seem
                    >
                    > honest and aren't looking for followers to make their living from or
                    >
                    > boost their egos.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I take what I think sounds true and test it out for myself. For
                    >
                    > example, I found Neville's "as if" principle extremely effective in
                    >
                    > meditation/contempl ation. On the inner planes, thinking and
                    >
                    > visualization bring about events very quickly and that's when
                    >
                    > assumptions can take me very far. After a while, I drop them because
                    >
                    > they are no longer necessary.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The sound paths such as Sant Mat are helpful for getting into a trance
                    >
                    > state while still retaining awareness. They are useful for numbing the
                    >
                    > body and moving the consciousness beyond physical a
                    > wareness. However,
                    >
                    > I don't believe in focusing on or visualizing a master. I prefer to
                    >
                    > place my attention on the formless.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Laurency's writings about Pythagorean Hylozoics appears to give one of
                    >
                    > the best explanations for our existence.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > By the way, Mish and Liz, I listened to the Jed McKenna audio books
                    >
                    > and found a lot of references to Ramana Maharshi's writings. McKenna's
                    >
                    > books influenced me to look into Maharshi's works. Ford's book
                    >
                    > motivated me to look into Laurency's writings.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people's
                    >
                    > works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day
                    >
                    > mundane existence.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I don't believe in masters, but I do believe in teachers. If I want to
                    >
                    > learn how to play piano, I'll find someone to teach me. The teacher is
                    >
                    > there to show me the quickest and best way to get there, while my role
                    >
                    > is to practice and develop my own style of playing.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > All of us on this forum have been victims of the Eckankar racket and I
                    >
                    > don't blame people for becoming cynics and debunkers of all
                    >
                    > spiritual/religious teachings after leaving Eckankar. As for myself, I
                    >
                    > don't plan to spend much more time putting my energies into debunking
                    >
                    > Eckankar. The critical faculty has its uses, but when taken to the
                    >
                    > extreme it kills off idealism. There's a lot more I want to explore
                    >
                    > and test before20declaring "Everyone seems to be selling something for
                    >
                    > one reason or another."
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Call me an optimist, but I believe there are and were a few select
                    >
                    > individuals who just wanted to bring out the truth because they woke
                    >
                    > up to or achieved a certain high state of awareness. So, I don't think
                    >
                    > selling, promoting, and persuading were their goals in life.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Regards
                    >
                    > Liska
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_ 973"
                    >
                    > prometheus_973@ wrote:
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; Hello Ma-li,
                    >
                    > &gt; I thought I'd respond as well. For one
                    >
                    > &gt; thing I can't recommend anything to
                    >
                    > &gt; read, but I find many of the resources
                    >
                    > &gt; listed on this site to be interesting.
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; As far as believing these and other sources
                    >
                    > &gt; of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
                    >
                    > &gt; and everything by the so called "experts." I
                    >
                    > &gt; definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
                    >
                    > &gt; seems to be selling something for one reason
                    >
                    > &gt; or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
                    >
                    > &gt; subjective, and is found within by each Soul.
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; Ma-li wrote:
                    >
                    > &gt; [snip]
                    >
                    > &gt; "Would anyone like to share with me how you
                    >
                    > &gt; handled it when you decided to leave, and
                    >
                    > &gt; especially what did you do about the spiritual
                    >
                    > &gt; exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
                    >
                    > &gt
                    > ; Eck Masters never really existed, except in
                    >
                    > &gt; writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                    >
                    > &gt; left but God?"
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
                    >
                    > &gt; many things in ECKankar just didn't make
                    >
                    > &gt; sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
                    >
                    > &gt; it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
                    >
                    > &gt; and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
                    >
                    > &gt; every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
                    >
                    > &gt; opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
                    >
                    > &gt; one dimensional stories didn't help either.
                    >
                    > &gt; I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
                    >
                    > &gt; my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
                    >
                    > &gt; believable to others.
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; However, I've always known and had proof of
                    >
                    > &gt; Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
                    >
                    > &gt; I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
                    >
                    > &gt; of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
                    >
                    > &gt; and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
                    >
                    > &gt; amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
                    >
                    > &gt; or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
                    >
                    > &gt; long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
                    >
                    > &gt; because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
                    >
                    > &gt; in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
                    >
                    > &gt; HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
                    >
                    > &gt; can experience a
                    > Oneness with All There Is and a
                    >
                    > &gt; Contentment that I could never achieve while under
                    >
                    > &gt; the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
                    >
                    > &gt; up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
                    >
                    > &gt; new is it?
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
                    >
                    > &gt; beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
                    >
                    > &gt; the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
                    >
                    > &gt; the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
                    >
                    > &gt; warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
                    >
                    > &gt; IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
                    >
                    > &gt; the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
                    >
                    > &gt; IT IS ME, and I AM IT."
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
                    >
                    > &gt; and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
                    >
                    > &gt; observing Nature is very contemplative and
                    >
                    > &gt; peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
                    >
                    > &gt; The past tunes take one back to one's youth
                    >
                    > &gt; and beyond and into other times as does reading
                    >
                    > &gt; about or watching history on TV. It's good to
                    >
                    > &gt; know about how we became who we are and
                    >
                    > &gt; what we think we are in order to know more
                    >
                    > &gt; about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; "All this being said, I don't know what to do
                    >
                    > &gt; about spiritual exercises, or how to progres
                    > s
                    >
                    > &gt; from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
                    >
                    > &gt; and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                    >
                    > &gt; If someone would care to share their experiences
                    >
                    > &gt; and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
                    >
                    > &gt; can use my private email if you'd prefer."
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
                    >
                    > &gt; Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
                    >
                    > &gt; buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
                    >
                    > &gt; because of friends and/or the promise of God-
                    >
                    > &gt; Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
                    >
                    > &gt; giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
                    >
                    > &gt; I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
                    >
                    > &gt; give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
                    >
                    > &gt; after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
                    >
                    > &gt; I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
                    >
                    > &gt; and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
                    >
                    > &gt; many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
                    >
                    > &gt; a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
                    >
                    > &gt; me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
                    >
                    > &gt; reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
                    >
                    > &gt; same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; [snip]
                    >
                    > &gt; Ma-li (also) wrote:
                    >
                    > &gt; "...Then the doubts
                    > and mental processes begin
                    >
                    > &gt; working until he's got himself almost convinced
                    >
                    > &gt; he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
                    >
                    > &gt; to go back and change answers because he also
                    >
                    > &gt; feels he did the best he could.
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; What does he do to fill the empty space?"
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
                    >
                    > &gt; (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
                    >
                    > &gt; it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
                    >
                    > &gt; Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
                    >
                    > &gt; middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
                    >
                    > &gt; Masters in the making.
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; When one follows another they give up their ability
                    >
                    > &gt; to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
                    >
                    > &gt; give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
                    >
                    > &gt; a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
                    >
                    > &gt; Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
                    >
                    > &gt; Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
                    >
                    > &gt; No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >
                    > &gt; Prometheus
                    >
                    > &gt;
                    >


                  • Ma-li
                    Thank you, Mish, and I will take time to just enjoy the empty spaces.  I have a feeling they won t be around much longer. lol  Haven t read the books you
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                      Thank you, Mish, and I will take time to just enjoy the empty spaces.  I have a feeling they won't be around much longer. lol  Haven't read the books you recommend, but will find them one day soon.
                       
                      Re: tests in college....those were the days.lol  I did just what you did....left the others to sit and stew while I was out enjoying what the day had to offer.  Funny how the faster I did a test the better score I received.
                       
                      Namaste
                       
                      Ma-li

                      --- On Fri, 12/5/08, mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
                      From: mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...>
                      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
                      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 8:16 AM

                      Hello Ma-li!

                      I like your questions about filling in the empty spaces,
                      what to do now? Likening it to finishing a 3 hour test in
                      one hour, reminded me of my college days! Actually, I
                      remember a few occasions when taking an exam that I
                      did actually finish quite early . . . and I remember some
                      self-doubts about why I finished it so quickly while others
                      were still laboring over the exam. What did I do?? I turned
                      the exam in and left the room! And then I did sort of a
                      happy dance outside, glad to be free of that exam room . . .
                      and how did I do? Well, I did quite well, because I had
                      aced those exams, and I was free to go on to the next
                      thing . . . and being a college student, I remember heading
                      to the beach with some friends for one time and having so
                      much fun. Can't quite remember on the other occasions, but
                      if it was just before school break, I probably got an early
                      start for home! So I guess my message is to trust yourself! : )

                      Empty spaces are a luxury really, but they often come at a
                      hard time, so there can be the feeling of loss . . . and we
                      want to quickly fill it up again with something else. I think
                      it is good to just take one's time and find things that are of
                      interest. I remember one time in my life when I had to sort
                      of re-invent myself. Every morning I'd ask myself what it
                      was that I wanted and needed to do with my life to make
                      myself happy. Happiness is so essential--it is not selfish to
                      want to seek this IMO. My goals had to be reasonable and
                      attainable goals--that was one stipulation I placed on myself.
                      I finally defined what it was I wanted and wanted to do and
                      then I looked for the ways to accomplish it all, one by one.

                      I guess what I'm saying you have to ask yourself what it is
                      you need and then find the ways to have it. But take your
                      time and enjoy the freedom of those empty spaces because
                      they allow you freedom for introspection which is needed to
                      take the next steps--all by your own choices and decisions!

                      Good luck! And I'd like to offer a couple of books for reading
                      as well. One member of our site who left eckankar after 30
                      years found Jed McKenna's book "Spiritual Enlightenment, the
                      Damnest Thing" to greatly help her to handle the void. She
                      still says it is the best book! I also like Sam Harris' book "The
                      End of Faith", and also enjoyed Bill Moyers TV series on "On Faith
                      and Reason" to be quite valuable. You can google for the Bill
                      Moyers series to find and read the transcripts.

                      Mish

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, Ma-li <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Non ekster et al,
                      >  
                      > It's not so much that I'm searching for anything, it's more like I'm living in the Now all
                      the time. However, on another level, I think/feel that I should be doing/being something
                      more than just being.  Don't know if that makes sense, so I'll liken it to the student who
                      finishes a 3 hour test in an hour.  What does he do for the other 2 hours...just sit there
                      quietly, leave the room, or go back over the test yet again?  He's in a quandry, and it
                      doesn't feel right that he's finished early. Then the doubts and mental processes begin
                      working until he's got himself almost convinced he really screwed up the test, but he
                      doesn't want to go back and change answers because he also feels he did the best he
                      could.  What does he do to fill the empty space?
                      >  
                      > Namaste
                      >  
                      > Ma-li
                      >
                      > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Non ekster <eckchains@. ..> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: Non ekster <eckchains@. ..>
                      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: What now?
                      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
                      > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:02 AM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Sometimes it's best to just stop Searching.
                      >
                      > Non ekster ; )
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mhstarlings"
                      > <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello All,
                      > >
                      > > I have come to the place where I was in 1973 before I joined
                      > > Eckankar. The difference is whatI know now, and all the years of Eck
                      > > teachings that have filled those years up to maybe 7 years ago.
                      > > Seven years is how long it's been since I felt "right" about
                      > > remaining in Eckankar, and it's taken me this long to find answers,
                      > > and to make the decision to sever my ties with it.
                      > >
                      > > Would anyone like to share with me how you handled it when you
                      > > decided to leave, and especially what did you do about the spiritual
                      > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the Eck Masters never
                      > > really existed, except in writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                      > > left but God?
                      > >
                      > > God has always been the "real" aspect of my beliefs. IT is in
                      > > everything, be it rocks, trees, the two-legged beings, the four-
                      > > legged beings, the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the warm
                      > > Summer breeze that tickles the leaves. IT is the rain that gives
                      > > and sustains life for the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in
                      > > everything. IT IS ME, and I AM IT.
                      > >
                      > > All this being said, I don't know what to do about spiritual
                      > > exercises, or how to progress from here. It's like I'm standing
                      > > alone once again, and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                      > > If someone would care to share their experiences and choices from
                      > > this point, I'd appreciate it. You can use my private email if
                      > > you'd prefer.
                      > >
                      > > Thank you all for being here, and thank you so much Prometheus for
                      > > creating this forum for people like me to find when they search for
                      > > the answers.
                      > >
                      > > Namaste
                      > >
                      > > Ma-li
                      > >
                      >


                    • Ma-li
                      Liska, I haven t checked these out yet, but will soon.  Still trying to get all of Ford s ebook read, but have to do it slowly since it really hurts my eyes
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                        Liska, I haven't checked these out yet, but will soon.  Still trying to get all of Ford's ebook read, but have to do it slowly since it really hurts my eyes to read on the monitor.
                         
                        Thanks bunches.
                         
                        Namaste
                         
                        Ma-li

                        --- On Thu, 12/4/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
                        From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
                        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:30 PM

                        Ma-li,
                        Have you checked out the free Henry T. Laurency .pdf books?

                        http://laurency. com/

                        I also recommend Neville Goddard, Joel Goldsmith, Ramana Maharshi, and
                        Jiddu Krishnamurti.

                        Regards
                        Liska

                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, Ma-li
                        <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Non ekster et al,
                        >  
                        > It's not so much that I'm searching for anything, it's more like I'm
                        living in the Now all the time. However, on another level, I
                        think/feel that I should be doing/being something more than just
                        being.  Don't know if that makes sense, so I'll liken it to the
                        student who finishes a 3 hour test in an hour.  What does he do for
                        the other 2 hours...just sit there quietly, leave the room, or go back
                        over the test yet again?  He's in a quandry, and it doesn't feel right
                        that he's finished early. Then the doubts and mental processes begin
                        working until he's got himself almost convinced he really screwed up
                        the test, but he doesn't want to go back and change answers because he
                        also feels he did the best he could.  What does he do to fill the
                        empty space?
                        >  
                        > Namaste
                        >  
                        > Ma-li
                        >
                        > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Non ekster <eckchains@. ..> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Non ekster <eckchains@. ..>
                        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: What now?
                        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
                        > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:02 AM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Sometimes it's best to just stop Searching.
                        >
                        > Non ekster ; )
                        >
                        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mhstarlings"
                        > <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello All,
                        > >
                        > > I have come to the place where I was in 1973 before I joined
                        > > Eckankar. The difference is whatI know now, and all the years of Eck
                        > > teachings that have filled those years up to maybe 7 years ago.
                        > > Seven years is how long it's been since I felt "right" about
                        > > remaining in Eckankar, and it's taken me this long to find answers,
                        > > and to make the decision to sever my ties with it.
                        > >
                        > > Would anyone like to share with me how you handled it when you
                        > > decided to leave, and especially what did you do about the spiritual
                        > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the Eck Masters never
                        > > really existed, except in writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                        > > left but God?
                        > >
                        > > God has always been the "real" aspect of my beliefs. IT is in
                        > > everything, be it rocks, trees, the two-legged beings, the four-
                        > > legged beings, the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the warm
                        > > Summer breeze that tickles the leaves. IT is the rain that gives
                        > > and sustains life for the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in
                        > > everything. IT IS ME, and I AM IT.
                        > >
                        > > All this being said, I don't know what to do about spiritual
                        > > exercises, or how to progress from here. It's like I'm standing
                        > > alone once again, and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                        > > If someone would care to share their experiences and choices from
                        > > this point, I'd appreciate it. You can use my private email if
                        > > you'd prefer.
                        > >
                        > > Thank you all for being here, and thank you so much Prometheus for
                        > > creating this forum for people like me to find when they search for
                        > > the answers.
                        > >
                        > > Namaste
                        > >
                        > > Ma-li
                        > >
                        >


                      • Ma-li
                        Hi Prometheus,   Thank you for all your wonderful, knowledgeable comments.  I do appreciate them, and can relate to what you said.   I too wanted to believe
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                          Hi Prometheus,
                           
                          Thank you for all your wonderful, knowledgeable comments.  I do appreciate them, and can relate to what you said.
                           
                          I too wanted to believe all the malarky that was being fed to me, and had problems buying into what HK was saying.  As Eckankar evolved/devolved under HK, it seemed to be leaving me with an empty feeling.  I could get the same stories from any 5th grader.  I made that comment to another Eckist, and was told HK had to make it simpler for those just "coming in".  If those "coming in" were supposed to be already more spiritually advanced than those of us who had been there a long time, then why dumb it down.  Just one more thing that didn't set well with me.
                           
                          As for the spiritual exercises, apparently I didn't do them in an acceptable manner, but that was the way that was comfortable to me.  I haven't done them in quite a while now, and eventually will invent my own means of doing spiritual contemplation, if need be.  I spend a lot of time in Nature....gonna go out on a limb here and tell you that my entire life has been involved with helping animals in need...from the newborn to the ancient with special needs that require almost constant care.  I learned more about love from these animals than I ever did from HK, and feel blessed to have been given so much unconditional love and trust by beings usually untrusting of humans.  As each one passed over, it broke my heart, but I knew they were in a better place.  At least they had experienced love on this plane, and I'm sure it helped their Soul progression too. They were as close to me as my own heartbeat, and still are even tho' they have gone.
                           
                          By giving up this spiritual path, I feel more free to be me, and to know and love all life whatever the form.  Still have to work on the rattlesnakes and flies however. lol
                           
                          I think I bought into Eckankar for as long as I did because it seemed like the right thing to do at the time.  As the dis-satisfatico grew, I knew I had to be true to myself first and foremost.  Maybe it was the challenge of attaining initiations, I'm not certain.  I just know that somewhere along the line they ceased to matter, and my eyes were opening to see more about the spiritual path I was on. Didn't like what I saw, but didn't know how to get off the path.   I have done lots of "outside" reading over the years, and that has been instrumental in my eyes being opened.  Then there was that little sticking point that has always galled me........needing a mediator to connect with God.  If I didn't believe priests, ministers etc. could do it,  why should the Mahanta be any different???  There was no difference, and I finally "saw the light".
                           
                          My test has been taken, and I've completed it long before the others.  I have no doubts, and don't need to recheck my answers.  I won't sit around and wait for the others to finish, but will walk out the door into a world of fun, love, joy, and totally of my making.  I am the captain of my own ship now, and feel certain I will attain whatever spiritual goals I set for myself.
                           
                          I have been feeling guilty about not feeling guilty about leaving Eckankar.  It was guilt that had me wondering what to do next.  Now, thanks to all the wonderful posts by you, etznab, aftrek, mish, the guilt has gone away.  You all took the plunge with your eyes wide open, went thru the "what now" period, and emerged on the other side as full, complete human beings in charge of your own destinies.  May I join your ranks? 


                          --- On Thu, 12/4/08, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
                          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:26 PM

                          Hello Ma-li,
                          I thought I'd respond as well. For one
                          thing I can't recommend anything to
                          read, but I find many of the resources
                          listed on this site to be interesting.

                          As far as believing these and other sources
                          of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
                          and everything by the so called "experts." I
                          definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
                          seems to be selling something for one reason
                          or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
                          subjective, and is found within by each Soul.

                          Ma-li wrote:
                          [snip]
                          "Would anyone like to share with me how you
                          handled it when you decided to leave, and
                          especially what did you do about the spiritual
                          exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
                          Eck Masters never really existed, except in
                          writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                          left but God?"

                          *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
                          many things in ECKankar just didn't make
                          sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
                          it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
                          and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
                          every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
                          opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
                          one dimensional stories didn't help either.
                          I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
                          my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
                          believable to others.

                          However, I've always known and had proof of
                          Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
                          I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
                          of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
                          and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
                          amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
                          or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
                          long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
                          because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
                          in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
                          HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
                          can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a
                          Contentment that I could never achieve while under
                          the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
                          up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
                          new is it?

                          "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
                          beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
                          the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
                          the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
                          warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
                          IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
                          the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
                          IT IS ME, and I AM IT."

                          *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
                          and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
                          observing Nature is very contemplative and
                          peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
                          The past tunes take one back to one's youth
                          and beyond and into other times as does reading
                          about or watching history on TV. It's good to
                          know about how we became who we are and
                          what we think we are in order to know more
                          about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.

                          "All this being said, I don't know what to do
                          about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
                          from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
                          and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                          If someone would care to share their experiences
                          and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
                          can use my private email if you'd prefer."

                          *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
                          Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
                          buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
                          because of friends and/or the promise of God-
                          Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
                          giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
                          I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
                          give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
                          after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
                          I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
                          and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
                          many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
                          a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
                          me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
                          reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
                          same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!

                          [snip]
                          Ma-li (also) wrote:
                          "...Then the doubts and mental processes begin
                          working until he's got himself almost convinced
                          he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
                          to go back and change answers because he also
                          feels he did the best he could.

                          What does he do to fill the empty space?"

                          *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
                          (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
                          it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
                          Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
                          middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
                          Masters in the making.

                          When one follows another they give up their ability
                          to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
                          give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
                          a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
                          Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
                          Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
                          No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.

                          Prometheus



                        • prometheus_973
                          Hello Ma-li, It appears that you have already joined our ranks! You sound like an old friend where the passage of time and space becomes irrelevant to the
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                            Hello Ma-li,
                            It appears that you have already joined
                            our ranks! You sound like an old friend
                            where the passage of time and space
                            becomes irrelevant to the friendship,
                            the journey, and to the connection of Soul.

                            I enjoyed reading of your experiences
                            and insights too. Yes, I too have mixed
                            feelings about flies and rattlesnakes.
                            I usually give them fair warning first and
                            offer them an out before taking preventative
                            (extreme) measures. The thing is it startles
                            me, at times, when other (friendly) snakes
                            sneak up on me, or I "discover" them. It's
                            actually kind of funny, but I scold them
                            for scaring me or for me scaring myself!

                            Prometheus


                            Ma-li wrote:
                            Hi Prometheus,

                            Thank you for all your wonderful, knowledgeable
                            comments. I do appreciate them, and can relate
                            to what you said.

                            I too wanted to believe all the malarky that was
                            being fed to me, and had problems buying into
                            what HK was saying. As Eckankar evolved/devolved
                            under HK, it seemed to be leaving me with an empty
                            feeling. I could get the same stories from any 5th
                            grader. I made that comment to another Eckist,
                            and was told HK had to make it simpler for those
                            just "coming in". If those "coming in" were supposed
                            to be already more spiritually advanced than those
                            of us who had been there a long time, then why
                            dumb it down. Just one more thing that didn't set
                            well with me.

                            As for the spiritual exercises, apparently I didn't
                            do them in an acceptable manner, but that was
                            the way that was comfortable to me. I haven't
                            done them in quite a while now, and eventually
                            will invent my own means of doing spiritual
                            contemplation, if need be. I spend a lot of time
                            in Nature....gonna go out on a limb here and tell
                            you that my entire life has been involved with
                            helping animals in need...from the newborn to
                            the ancient with special needs that require almost
                            constant care. I learned more about love from
                            these animals than I ever did from HK, and feel
                            blessed to have been given so much unconditional
                            love and trust by beings usually untrusting of humans.
                            As each one passed over, it broke my heart, but
                            I knew they were in a better place. At least they
                            had experienced love on this plane, and I'm sure
                            it helped their Soul progression too. They were as
                            close to me as my own heartbeat, and still are even
                            tho' they have gone.

                            By giving up this spiritual path, I feel more free
                            to be me, and to know and love all life whatever
                            the form. Still have to work on the rattlesnakes
                            and flies however. lol

                            I think I bought into Eckankar for as long as I did
                            because it seemed like the right thing to do at the
                            time. As the dis-satisfatico grew, I knew I had to
                            be true to myself first and foremost. Maybe it was
                            the challenge of attaining initiations, I'm not certain.
                            I just know that somewhere along the line they ceased
                            to matter, and my eyes were opening to see more
                            about the spiritual path I was on. Didn't like what
                            I saw, but didn't know how to get off the path.
                            I have done lots of "outside" reading over the years,
                            and that has been instrumental in my eyes being
                            opened. Then there was that little sticking point
                            that has always galled me........needing a mediator
                            to connect with God. If I didn't believe priests,
                            ministers etc. could do it, why should the Mahanta
                            be any different??? There was no difference, and
                            I finally "saw the light".

                            My test has been taken, and I've completed it long
                            before the others. I have no doubts, and don't need
                            to recheck my answers. I won't sit around and wait
                            for the others to finish, but will walk out the door
                            into a world of fun, love, joy, and totally of my making.
                            I am the captain of my own ship now, and feel certain
                            I will attain whatever spiritual goals I set for myself.

                            I have been feeling guilty about not feeling guilty
                            about leaving Eckankar. It was guilt that had me
                            wondering what to do next. Now, thanks to all the
                            wonderful posts by you, etznab, aftrek, mish, the
                            guilt has gone away. You all took the plunge with
                            your eyes wide open, went thru the "what now"
                            period, and emerged on the other side as full,
                            complete human beings in charge of your own
                            destinies. May I join your ranks?

                            ************************************************
                            prometheus wrote:

                            Hello Ma-li,
                            I thought I'd respond as well. For one
                            thing I can't recommend anything to
                            read, but I find many of the resources
                            listed on this site to be interesting.

                            As far as believing these and other sources
                            of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
                            and everything by the so called "experts." I
                            definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
                            seems to be selling something for one reason
                            or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
                            subjective, and is found within by each Soul.

                            Ma-li wrote:
                            [snip]
                            "Would anyone like to share with me how you
                            handled it when you decided to leave, and
                            especially what did you do about the spiritual
                            exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
                            Eck Masters never really existed, except in
                            writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                            left but God?"

                            *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
                            many things in ECKankar just didn't make
                            sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
                            it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
                            and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
                            every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
                            opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
                            one dimensional stories didn't help either.
                            I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
                            my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
                            believable to others.

                            However, I've always known and had proof of
                            Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
                            I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
                            of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
                            and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
                            amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
                            or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
                            long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
                            because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
                            in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
                            HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
                            can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a
                            Contentment that I could never achieve while under
                            the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
                            up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
                            new is it?

                            "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
                            beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
                            the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
                            the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
                            warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
                            IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
                            the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
                            IT IS ME, and I AM IT."

                            *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
                            and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
                            observing Nature is very contemplative and
                            peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
                            The past tunes take one back to one's youth
                            and beyond and into other times as does reading
                            about or watching history on TV. It's good to
                            know about how we became who we are and
                            what we think we are in order to know more
                            about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.

                            "All this being said, I don't know what to do
                            about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
                            from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
                            and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                            If someone would care to share their experiences
                            and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
                            can use my private email if you'd prefer."

                            *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
                            Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
                            buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
                            because of friends and/or the promise of God-
                            Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
                            giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
                            I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
                            give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
                            after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
                            I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
                            and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
                            many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
                            a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
                            me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
                            reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
                            same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!

                            [snip]
                            Ma-li (also) wrote:
                            "...Then the doubts and mental processes begin
                            working until he's got himself almost convinced
                            he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
                            to go back and change answers because he also
                            feels he did the best he could.

                            What does he do to fill the empty space?"

                            *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
                            (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
                            it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
                            Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
                            middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
                            Masters in the making.

                            When one follows another they give up their ability
                            to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
                            give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
                            a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
                            Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
                            Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
                            No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.

                            Prometheus
                          • drubezarne
                            Hi Leanne, I think Ford s statements about Hu and Aum might be valid here. In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson, he says... I would ven­ture that
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 7, 2008
                              Hi Leanne, I think Ford's statements about Hu and Aum might be valid here.

                              In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson, he says...

                              "I would ven­ture that God has no pref­er­ence and al­so that all
                              sounds and words are part of ALL THAT IS, and serve equal­ly well in
                              gar­ner­ing God's at­ten­tion."

                              and...

                              "The im­por­tant point is that all sounds or mantras can en­able the
                              in­di­vid­ual to tran­scend the phys­ical di­men­sion and
                              ex­pe­ri­ence the ec­stat­ic states and the in­ner planes...They all
                              work and can en­able the in­divid­ual to hear the re­mark­able and
                              awe-in­spir­ing sounds of the in­ner worlds. As­crib­ing greater
                              mag­ic to one sound or mantra over an­oth­er is much like ar­gu­ing
                              whose God is great­est. It is a mean­ing­less de­bate for ev­ery­thing
                              is part of the ONE. Fur­ther, when the prac­ti­tion­er has had some
                              ex­pe­ri­ence with these mantras and the in­ner ex­pe­ri­ences that
                              follow, she will come to the re­al­iza­tion that these are not
                              out­side sounds; they are a part of her."

                              and...

                              "The Va­lid­ity of Spir­itu­al Ex­er­cis­es. The ba­sic spir­itu­al
                              ex­er­cise of Eck, which Paul called "the easy way," is al­so the
                              ba­sic ex­er­cise of the Shabd Yo­ga tra­di­tion, and, as such,
                              car­ries with it the in­trin­sic va­lid­ity of this prac­tice in the
                              Yo­ga tradi­tion. In these teach­ings, the HU is sung "Hooooooo,"
                              where­as in Eck­ankar, it is sung "Hu­uu­uu­uuu" or "hugh" — Paul's
                              ef­fort to make it unique. The dif­fer­ence is of no re­al
                              sig­nif­icance. Each sound will work and should be con­tin­ued if it
                              works for you."

                              As to Ek Onkar; it is a Sikh term that means "God is One." Julian
                              Johnson's Path of the Masters mentions it. If you downloaded the .pdf
                              book, you can do a search for it in Acrobat.

                              Regards,
                              Liska

                              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Leanne Thompson
                              <le_anne_thompson@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar? I use HU-OM or
                              other sanskrit words.
                              >  
                              > BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found EK OM KAR. I
                              think it was a mantra or something like  that. Has anyone heard of that?
                              >  
                              > Thanks
                              > Leanne
                              >
                            • prometheus_973
                              Hello Liska and All, It s interesting that Ford said, They all work and can enable the individual to hear the remarkable and awe-inspiring sounds of the INNER
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 7, 2008
                                Hello Liska and All,
                                It's interesting that Ford said,
                                "They all work and can enable
                                the individual to hear the remarkable
                                and awe-inspiring sounds of the INNER
                                WORLDS. Ascribing greater MAGIC to
                                one sound or mantra over another is
                                much like arguing whose God is greatest."
                                [MY CAPS]

                                So, is Ford saying that these are Magical
                                sounds/mantras that have "intrinsic validity."
                                Isn't that a contradiction of terms? Or, is
                                he saying that most people see these as
                                magical words/sounds, but that these
                                have "intrinsic validity" in Shabd Yoga?
                                However, does Shabd Yoga have validity?
                                How much or with what? BTW- I wonder
                                which planes or "inner worlds" Ford was
                                referring to?

                                IMO it does seem that there is something
                                different with the vibratory rate of this
                                sound/mantra (HU) that makes it more
                                unique than the other (AUM), or Not!
                                Perhaps there are Universal sounds/mantras,
                                as well as, more specific ones that match
                                or enhance each person's/Soul's vibratory
                                rate of consciousness. And, this is why one
                                sound works better for one person than with
                                another person.

                                The other quote you gave by Ford was:

                                "The Validity of Spiritual Exercises.

                                The basic spiritual exercise of Eck, which Paul
                                called "the easy way," is also the basic exercise
                                of the Shabd Yoga tradition, and, as such, carries
                                with it the INTRINSIC VALIDITY of this practice
                                in the Yoga tradition. In these teachings, the
                                HU is sung "Hooooooo," where as in Eckankar,
                                it is sung "Huuuuuuu" or "hugh." [MY CAPS]

                                Personally, I often have trouble accepting any
                                promises and beliefs from any religion as valid
                                and, especially, from those religions that have
                                "Living Masters" who have set themselves up as
                                Masters/Godmen/Saviours/Prophets.

                                It is interesting about the HU being sung as
                                "Hooooooo" (who) and "Huuuuuuu" (hue/hugh).

                                I knew ECKists who would sing HU as "Hooooooo"
                                (who)! It was very strange and they sang loud!!!
                                I never did ask them why they did this, but they
                                believed they were part of Harry's inner (Inner)
                                Circle and were more special than most of his
                                RESAs. They had a small following at the major
                                EK Seminars and were very aloof towards the
                                RESA structure and toward rules and guidelines
                                in general. They usually ignored these or acted
                                As If they had no knowledge of these ESC approved
                                procedures. Delusion runs rampant in ECKankar!

                                Prometheus



                                Liska wrote:
                                Hi Leanne, I think Ford's statements about
                                Hu and Aum might be valid here.

                                In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson,
                                he says...

                                "I would venture that God has no preference
                                and also that all sounds and words are part
                                of ALL THAT IS, and serve equally well in
                                garnering God's attention."

                                and...

                                "The important point is that all sounds or
                                mantras can enable the individual to transcend
                                the physical dimension and experience the
                                ecstatic states and the inner planes... They
                                all work and can enable the individual to hear
                                the remarkable and awe-inspiring sounds
                                of the inner worlds. Ascribing greater magic
                                to one sound or mantra over another is much
                                like arguing whose God is greatest. It is a
                                meaningless debate for everything is part of
                                the ONE. Further, when the practitioner has
                                had some experience with these mantras and
                                the inner experiences that follow, she will
                                come to the realization that these are not
                                outside sounds; they are a part of her."

                                and...

                                "The Validity of Spiritual Exercises. The basic
                                spiritual exercise of Eck, which Paul called
                                "the easy way," is also the basic exercise of
                                the Shabd Yoga tradition, and, as such, carries
                                with it the INTRINSIC VALIDITY of this practice
                                in the Yoga tradition. In these teachings, the
                                HU is sung "Hooooooo," where as in Eckankar,
                                it is sung "Huuuuuuuu" or "hugh" — Paul's
                                effort to make it unique. The difference is of
                                no real significance. Each sound will work and
                                should be continued if it works for you."

                                ME: [My Caps]

                                As to Ek Onkar; it is a Sikh term that means
                                "God is One." Julian Johnson's Path of the Masters
                                mentions it. If you downloaded the .pdf
                                book, you can do a search for it in Acrobat.

                                Regards,
                                Liska


                                Leanne wrote:

                                Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar?
                                I use HU-OM or other sanskrit words.

                                BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found
                                EK OM KAR. I think it was a mantra or something like
                                that. Has anyone heard of that?

                                Thanks
                                Leanne
                                >
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