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Re: What now?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Ma-li, I thought I d respond as well. For one thing I can t recommend anything to read, but I find many of the resources listed on this site to be
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 4, 2008
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      Hello Ma-li,
      I thought I'd respond as well. For one
      thing I can't recommend anything to
      read, but I find many of the resources
      listed on this site to be interesting.

      As far as believing these and other sources
      of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
      and everything by the so called "experts." I
      definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
      seems to be selling something for one reason
      or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
      subjective, and is found within by each Soul.



      Ma-li wrote:
      [snip]
      "Would anyone like to share with me how you
      handled it when you decided to leave, and
      especially what did you do about the spiritual
      exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
      Eck Masters never really existed, except in
      writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
      left but God?"



      *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
      many things in ECKankar just didn't make
      sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
      it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
      and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
      every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
      opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
      one dimensional stories didn't help either.
      I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
      my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
      believable to others.

      However, I've always known and had proof of
      Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
      I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
      of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
      and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
      amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
      or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
      long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
      because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
      in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
      HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
      can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a
      Contentment that I could never achieve while under
      the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
      up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
      new is it?



      "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
      beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
      the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
      the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
      warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
      IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
      the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
      IT IS ME, and I AM IT."



      *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
      and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
      observing Nature is very contemplative and
      peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
      The past tunes take one back to one's youth
      and beyond and into other times as does reading
      about or watching history on TV. It's good to
      know about how we became who we are and
      what we think we are in order to know more
      about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.



      "All this being said, I don't know what to do
      about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
      from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
      and need to make a choice about what to do next.
      If someone would care to share their experiences
      and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
      can use my private email if you'd prefer."



      *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
      Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
      buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
      because of friends and/or the promise of God-
      Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
      giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
      I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
      give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
      after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
      I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
      and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
      many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
      a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
      me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
      reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
      same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!




      [snip]
      Ma-li (also) wrote:
      "...Then the doubts and mental processes begin
      working until he's got himself almost convinced
      he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
      to go back and change answers because he also
      feels he did the best he could.

      What does he do to fill the empty space?"



      *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
      (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
      it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
      Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
      middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
      Masters in the making.

      When one follows another they give up their ability
      to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
      give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
      a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
      Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
      Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
      No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.

      Prometheus
    • Leanne Thompson
      Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar? I use HU-OM or other sanskrit words.   BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found EK OM KAR. I think
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 4, 2008
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        Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar? I use HU-OM or other sanskrit words.
         
        BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found EK OM KAR. I think it was a mantra or something like  that. Has anyone heard of that?
         
        Thanks
        Leanne

      • mishmisha9
        Hello Ma-li! I like your questions about filling in the empty spaces, what to do now? Likening it to finishing a 3 hour test in one hour, reminded me of my
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 5, 2008
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          Hello Ma-li!

          I like your questions about filling in the empty spaces,
          what to do now? Likening it to finishing a 3 hour test in
          one hour, reminded me of my college days! Actually, I
          remember a few occasions when taking an exam that I
          did actually finish quite early . . . and I remember some
          self-doubts about why I finished it so quickly while others
          were still laboring over the exam. What did I do?? I turned
          the exam in and left the room! And then I did sort of a
          happy dance outside, glad to be free of that exam room . . .
          and how did I do? Well, I did quite well, because I had
          aced those exams, and I was free to go on to the next
          thing . . . and being a college student, I remember heading
          to the beach with some friends for one time and having so
          much fun. Can't quite remember on the other occasions, but
          if it was just before school break, I probably got an early
          start for home! So I guess my message is to trust yourself! : )

          Empty spaces are a luxury really, but they often come at a
          hard time, so there can be the feeling of loss . . . and we
          want to quickly fill it up again with something else. I think
          it is good to just take one's time and find things that are of
          interest. I remember one time in my life when I had to sort
          of re-invent myself. Every morning I'd ask myself what it
          was that I wanted and needed to do with my life to make
          myself happy. Happiness is so essential--it is not selfish to
          want to seek this IMO. My goals had to be reasonable and
          attainable goals--that was one stipulation I placed on myself.
          I finally defined what it was I wanted and wanted to do and
          then I looked for the ways to accomplish it all, one by one.

          I guess what I'm saying you have to ask yourself what it is
          you need and then find the ways to have it. But take your
          time and enjoy the freedom of those empty spaces because
          they allow you freedom for introspection which is needed to
          take the next steps--all by your own choices and decisions!

          Good luck! And I'd like to offer a couple of books for reading
          as well. One member of our site who left eckankar after 30
          years found Jed McKenna's book "Spiritual Enlightenment, the
          Damnest Thing" to greatly help her to handle the void. She
          still says it is the best book! I also like Sam Harris' book "The
          End of Faith", and also enjoyed Bill Moyers TV series on "On Faith
          and Reason" to be quite valuable. You can google for the Bill
          Moyers series to find and read the transcripts.

          Mish

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Ma-li <mhstarlings@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Non ekster et al,
          >  
          > It's not so much that I'm searching for anything, it's more like I'm living in the Now all
          the time. However, on another level, I think/feel that I should be doing/being something
          more than just being.  Don't know if that makes sense, so I'll liken it to the student who
          finishes a 3 hour test in an hour.  What does he do for the other 2 hours...just sit there
          quietly, leave the room, or go back over the test yet again?  He's in a quandry, and it
          doesn't feel right that he's finished early. Then the doubts and mental processes begin
          working until he's got himself almost convinced he really screwed up the test, but he
          doesn't want to go back and change answers because he also feels he did the best he
          could.  What does he do to fill the empty space?
          >  
          > Namaste
          >  
          > Ma-li
          >
          > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Non ekster <eckchains@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: Non ekster <eckchains@...>
          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:02 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Sometimes it's best to just stop Searching.
          >
          > Non ekster ; )
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mhstarlings"
          > <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello All,
          > >
          > > I have come to the place where I was in 1973 before I joined
          > > Eckankar. The difference is whatI know now, and all the years of Eck
          > > teachings that have filled those years up to maybe 7 years ago.
          > > Seven years is how long it's been since I felt "right" about
          > > remaining in Eckankar, and it's taken me this long to find answers,
          > > and to make the decision to sever my ties with it.
          > >
          > > Would anyone like to share with me how you handled it when you
          > > decided to leave, and especially what did you do about the spiritual
          > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the Eck Masters never
          > > really existed, except in writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
          > > left but God?
          > >
          > > God has always been the "real" aspect of my beliefs. IT is in
          > > everything, be it rocks, trees, the two-legged beings, the four-
          > > legged beings, the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the warm
          > > Summer breeze that tickles the leaves. IT is the rain that gives
          > > and sustains life for the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in
          > > everything. IT IS ME, and I AM IT.
          > >
          > > All this being said, I don't know what to do about spiritual
          > > exercises, or how to progress from here. It's like I'm standing
          > > alone once again, and need to make a choice about what to do next.
          > > If someone would care to share their experiences and choices from
          > > this point, I'd appreciate it. You can use my private email if
          > > you'd prefer.
          > >
          > > Thank you all for being here, and thank you so much Prometheus for
          > > creating this forum for people like me to find when they search for
          > > the answers.
          > >
          > > Namaste
          > >
          > > Ma-li
          > >
          >
        • drubezarne
          Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about Eckankar s charlatans and other frauds who want to act as intermediaries between God and Soul.
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 5, 2008
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            Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about
            Eckankar's charlatans and other frauds who want to act as
            intermediaries between God and Soul. On the other hand, concerning
            your views about all other teachings I would have to disagree.

            When I look closely at certain teachings or teachers who seem sincere
            in their approach to bringing out truth, I detect a subtle golden
            thread that runs throughout history. I'm not interested in the
            limitations of orthodoxy or its insistence that I'm supposed to
            imitate their way of life. Instead, I try to find writers who seem
            honest and aren't looking for followers to make their living from or
            boost their egos.

            I take what I think sounds true and test it out for myself. For
            example, I found Neville's "as if" principle extremely effective in
            meditation/contemplation. On the inner planes, thinking and
            visualization bring about events very quickly and that's when
            assumptions can take me very far. After a while, I drop them because
            they are no longer necessary.

            The sound paths such as Sant Mat are helpful for getting into a trance
            state while still retaining awareness. They are useful for numbing the
            body and moving the consciousness beyond physical awareness. However,
            I don't believe in focusing on or visualizing a master. I prefer to
            place my attention on the formless.

            Laurency's writings about Pythagorean Hylozoics appears to give one of
            the best explanations for our existence.

            By the way, Mish and Liz, I listened to the Jed McKenna audio books
            and found a lot of references to Ramana Maharshi's writings. McKenna's
            books influenced me to look into Maharshi's works. Ford's book
            motivated me to look into Laurency's writings.

            My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people's
            works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day
            mundane existence.

            I don't believe in masters, but I do believe in teachers. If I want to
            learn how to play piano, I'll find someone to teach me. The teacher is
            there to show me the quickest and best way to get there, while my role
            is to practice and develop my own style of playing.

            All of us on this forum have been victims of the Eckankar racket and I
            don't blame people for becoming cynics and debunkers of all
            spiritual/religious teachings after leaving Eckankar. As for myself, I
            don't plan to spend much more time putting my energies into debunking
            Eckankar. The critical faculty has its uses, but when taken to the
            extreme it kills off idealism. There's a lot more I want to explore
            and test before declaring "Everyone seems to be selling something for
            one reason or another."

            Call me an optimist, but I believe there are and were a few select
            individuals who just wanted to bring out the truth because they woke
            up to or achieved a certain high state of awareness. So, I don't think
            selling, promoting, and persuading were their goals in life.

            Regards
            Liska

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Ma-li,
            > I thought I'd respond as well. For one
            > thing I can't recommend anything to
            > read, but I find many of the resources
            > listed on this site to be interesting.
            >
            > As far as believing these and other sources
            > of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
            > and everything by the so called "experts." I
            > definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
            > seems to be selling something for one reason
            > or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
            > subjective, and is found within by each Soul.
            >
            >
            >
            > Ma-li wrote:
            > [snip]
            > "Would anyone like to share with me how you
            > handled it when you decided to leave, and
            > especially what did you do about the spiritual
            > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
            > Eck Masters never really existed, except in
            > writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
            > left but God?"
            >
            >
            >
            > *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
            > many things in ECKankar just didn't make
            > sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
            > it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
            > and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
            > every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
            > opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
            > one dimensional stories didn't help either.
            > I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
            > my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
            > believable to others.
            >
            > However, I've always known and had proof of
            > Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
            > I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
            > of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
            > and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
            > amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
            > or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
            > long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
            > because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
            > in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
            > HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
            > can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a
            > Contentment that I could never achieve while under
            > the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
            > up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
            > new is it?
            >
            >
            >
            > "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
            > beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
            > the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
            > the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
            > warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
            > IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
            > the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
            > IT IS ME, and I AM IT."
            >
            >
            >
            > *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
            > and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
            > observing Nature is very contemplative and
            > peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
            > The past tunes take one back to one's youth
            > and beyond and into other times as does reading
            > about or watching history on TV. It's good to
            > know about how we became who we are and
            > what we think we are in order to know more
            > about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.
            >
            >
            >
            > "All this being said, I don't know what to do
            > about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
            > from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
            > and need to make a choice about what to do next.
            > If someone would care to share their experiences
            > and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
            > can use my private email if you'd prefer."
            >
            >
            >
            > *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
            > Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
            > buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
            > because of friends and/or the promise of God-
            > Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
            > giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
            > I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
            > give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
            > after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
            > I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
            > and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
            > many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
            > a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
            > me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
            > reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
            > same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [snip]
            > Ma-li (also) wrote:
            > "...Then the doubts and mental processes begin
            > working until he's got himself almost convinced
            > he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
            > to go back and change answers because he also
            > feels he did the best he could.
            >
            > What does he do to fill the empty space?"
            >
            >
            >
            > *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
            > (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
            > it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
            > Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
            > middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
            > Masters in the making.
            >
            > When one follows another they give up their ability
            > to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
            > give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
            > a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
            > Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
            > Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
            > No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
          • etznab@aol.com
            All this being said, I don t know what to do about spiritual exercises, or how to progress from here. It s like I m standing alone once again, and need to
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 5, 2008
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              "All this being said, I don't know what to do
              about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
              from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
              and need to make a choice about what to do next.
              If someone would care to share their experiences
              and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
              can use my private email if you'd prefer."

              Ma-Li,

              I still think one can ask their questions and the
              "universe" will answer.

              Do you like to read books? This is where I get a
              lot of answers to my questions.

              There is this book, with a tacky looking cover &
              a tacky sounding name. Inside the cover though, I
              found it to be anything but tacky. It's called: Punk
              Science, Inside the Mind of God, by Dr. Manjir
              Samanta-Laughton. I saw a book review for it in an
              HCS Newsletter some time ago. Just read it again
              for about the third time.

              Maybe you have another way for connecting and
              receiving guidance from the universe. I'd say follow
              that. Take some initiative and don't give up. See
              what comes.

              This is what impressed me the most about what
              were in the teachings of Eckankar. That I didn't
              have to wait around & depend on other people for
              the answers to everything. Of course, if you depend
              on organized religion for all the answers it could be
              a long wait, IMO. In my experience it was always a
              form of "giving up initiative" - just plain giving up per-
              iod! that left
              me feeling helpless and dependent on
              some invisible "God" as if it were separate from my-
              self that I had to wait around for. That was the real
              bummer for me.

              I would say try what you know works for you. If
              the old methods do not work anymore then initiate
              something new. Don't feel you have to share what
              methods work for you either, or whether they are
              approved of and / or work for other people that you
              know. Find what works for you. That would be my
              advice. If you have a hobby, or something that you
              love to do, maybe explore that.

              Years ago, after I lost something that I loved very
              much, I realized that I had to replace it with some-
              thing in order to fill the void. I invested in another
              love of mine. One that I had since my youth. I had
              a love for words, and for poetry. So I explored the
              subject of words. I put a lot of time into that and it
              grew and grew into something bigger. It took me in-
              to other areas that I loved just as much, like history
              in general. Ancient history, history of religions and
              the history of words became my new friends and I
              got to know them better and better over the years.
              For some reason this is what I love to do. I can do
              it for hours on end and it doesn't feel like "work", if
              you know what I mean. I don't get paid a dollar for
              it either, but it brings a lot of satisfaction because, I
              think, whenever a person develops a talent=2
              0& moves
              in the direction of mastership toward something it
              puts them in a position of being more self sufficient
              and less dependent on others. It also gives them a
              gift that they can share with others. IMO.

              Don't know if this helps, but maybe something
              to consider at least. If in the future, after you find
              something that helps, if it's something you would
              like to share (if you choose) then maybe it could
              be posted here and it will help somebody else in
              a similar situation.

              I know that, for myself, I still feel other voids
              which need to be filled. Every time I find something
              that doesn't work the same (or not at all) anymore
              it leaves a kind of void and I have to do something
              about it. Maybe nothing has to be done, in every
              case, but I'd suspect that most people eventually
              learn to find something better than what they had
              before.

              This is kinda long already. Sorry for the length.

              Etznab

              -----Original Message-----
              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:26 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?



              Hello Ma-li,

              I thought I'd respond as well. For one

              thing I can't recommend anything to

              read, but I find many of the resources

              listed on this site to be interesting.



              As far as believing these and other sources

              of info I don't! It's too easily to accept20anything

              and everything by the so called "experts." I

              definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone

              seems to be selling something for one reason

              or another. The Truth is out there, is usually

              subjective, and is found within by each Soul.



              Ma-li wrote:

              [snip]

              "Would anyone like to share with me how you

              handled it when you decided to leave, and

              especially what did you do about the spiritual

              exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the

              Eck Masters never really existed, except in

              writers' fertile minds, then who/what is

              left but God?"



              *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that

              many things in ECKankar just didn't make

              sense and didn't add up even though I wanted

              it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,

              and in the initiations but it was getting tougher

              every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s

              opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and

              one dimensional stories didn't help either.

              I found that I had to put blinders on and hold

              my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound

              believable to others.



              However, I've always known and had proof of

              Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).

              I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How

              of many specifics outside of my realm of experience

              and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk0D

              amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises

              or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many

              long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises

              because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking

              in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still

              HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I

              can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a

              Contentment that I could never achieve while under

              the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give

              up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing

              new is it?



              "God has always been the "real" aspect of my

              beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,

              the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,

              the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the

              warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.

              IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for

              the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.

              IT IS ME, and I AM IT."



              *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside

              and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and

              observing Nature is very contemplative and

              peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!

              The past tunes take one back to one's youth

              and beyond and into other times as does reading

              about or watching history on TV. It's good to

              know about how we became who we are and

              what we think we are in order to kno
              w more

              about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.



              "All this being said, I don't know what to do

              about spiritual exercises, or how to progress

              from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,

              and need to make a choice about what to do next.

              If someone would care to share their experiences

              and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You

              can use my private email if you'd prefer."



              *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.

              Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you

              buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it

              because of friends and/or the promise of God-

              Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble

              giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.

              I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would

              give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies

              after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after

              I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together

              and I saw the con and the realized why there were so

              many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or

              a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to

              me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my

              reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the

              same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!



              [snip]

              Ma-li (also) wrote:

              "...Then the doubts and mental processes beg
              in

              working until he's got himself almost convinced

              he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want

              to go back and change answers because he also

              feels he did the best he could.



              What does he do to fill the empty space?"



              *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time

              (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole

              it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!

              Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'

              middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own

              Masters in the making.



              When one follows another they give up their ability

              to choose and to discover their own Truth. They

              give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need

              a religion to believe in when they can't believe in

              Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in

              Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.

              No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.



              Prometheus



















              =0
              A
            • etznab@aol.com
              Mish, I probably shoulda read all the threads for today first, before responding to Ma-Li. I think if I had read your response first, I probably would have
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 5, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Mish,

                I probably shoulda read all the threads for today
                first, before responding to Ma-Li. I think if I had read
                your response first, I probably would have said much
                less myself. It sounded like some good advice to me.
                What you shared, Mish.

                Etznab

                -----Original Message-----
                From: mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 9:16 am
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?



                Hello Ma-li!



                I like your questions about filling in the empty spaces,

                what to do now? Likening it to finishing a 3 hour test in

                one hour, reminded me of my college days! Actually, I

                remember a few occasions when taking an exam that I

                did actually finish quite early . . . and I remember some

                self-doubts about why I finished it so quickly while others

                were still laboring over the exam. What did I do?? I turned

                the exam in and left the room! And then I did sort of a

                happy dance outside, glad to be free of that exam room . . .

                and how did I do? Well, I did quite well, because I had

                aced those exams, and I was free to go on to the next

                thing . . . and being a college student, I remember heading

                to the beach with some friends for one time and having so

                much fun. Can't quite remember on the other occasions, but

                if it was just before school break, I probably got an early


                start for home! So I guess my message is to trust yourself! : )



                Empty spaces are a luxury really, but they often come at a

                hard time, so there can be the feeling of loss . . . and we

                want to quickly fill it up again with something else. I think

                it is good to just take one's time and find things that are of

                interest. I remember one time in my life when I had to sort

                of re-invent myself. Every morning I'd ask myself what it

                was that I wanted and needed to do with my life to make

                myself happy. Happiness is so essential--it is not selfish to

                want to seek this IMO. My goals had to be reasonable and

                attainable goals--that was one stipulation I placed on myself.

                I finally defined what it was I wanted and wanted to do and

                then I looked for the ways to accomplish it all, one by one.



                I guess what I'm saying you have to ask yourself what it is

                you need and then find the ways to have it. But take your

                time and enjoy the freedom of those empty spaces because

                they allow you freedom for introspection which is needed to

                take the next steps--all by your own choices and decisions!



                Good luck! And I'd like to offer a couple of books for reading

                as well. One member of our site who left eckankar after 30

                years found Jed McKenna's book "Spiritual Enlightenment, the

                Damnest Thing" to greatly help her to handle
                the void. She

                still says it is the best book! I also like Sam Harris' book "The

                End of Faith", and also enjoyed Bill Moyers TV series on "On Faith

                and Reason" to be quite valuable. You can google for the Bill

                Moyers series to find and read the transcripts.



                Mish



                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Ma-li
                <mhstarlings@...> wrote:

                >

                > Hello Non ekster et al,

                >  

                > It's not so much that I'm searching for anything, it's more like
                I'm living in the Now all

                the time. However, on another level, I think/feel that I should be
                doing/being something

                more than just being.  Don't know if that makes sense, so I'll liken it
                to the student who

                finishes a 3 hour test in an hour.  What does he do for the other 2
                hours...just sit there

                quietly, leave the room, or go back over the test yet again?  He's in a
                quandry, and it

                doesn't feel right that he's finished early. Then the doubts and mental
                processes begin

                working until he's got himself almost convinced he really screwed up
                the test, but he

                doesn't want to go back and change answers because he also feels he did
                the best he

                could.  What does he do to fill the empty space?

                >  

                > Namaste

                >  

                > Ma-li

                >

                > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Non ekster <eckchains@...> wrote:


                >

                > From: Non ekster <eckchains@...>

                > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?

                > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com

                > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:02 AM

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > Sometimes it's best to just stop Searching.

                >

                > Non ekster ; )

                >

                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mhstarlings"

                > <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:

                > >

                > > Hello All,

                > >

                > > I have come to the place where I was in 1973 before I joined

                > > Eckankar. The difference is whatI know now, and all the years
                of Eck

                > > teachings that have filled those years up to maybe 7 years
                ago.

                > > Seven years is how long it's been since I felt "right" about

                > > remaining in Eckankar, and it's taken me this long to find
                answers,

                > > and to make the decision to sever my ties with it.

                > >

                > > Would anyone like to share with me how you handled it when
                you

                > > decided to leave, and especially what did you do about the
                spiritual

                > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the Eck Masters
                never

                > > really existed, except in writers' fertile minds, then
                who/what is

                > > left but God?

                > >

                > > God has
                always been the "real" aspect of my beliefs. IT is in

                > > everything, be it rocks, trees, the two-legged beings, the
                four-

                > > legged beings, the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
                warm

                > > Summer breeze that tickles the leaves. IT is the rain that
                gives

                > > and sustains life for the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in

                > > everything. IT IS ME, and I AM IT.

                > >

                > > All this being said, I don't know what to do about spiritual

                > > exercises, or how to progress from here. It's like I'm
                standing

                > > alone once again, and need to make a choice about what to do
                next.

                > > If someone would care to share their experiences and choices
                from

                > > this point, I'd appreciate it. You can use my private email
                if

                > > you'd prefer.

                > >

                > > Thank you all for being here, and thank you so much
                Prometheus for

                > > creating this forum for people like me to find when they
                search for

                > > the answers.

                > >

                > > Namaste

                > >

                > > Ma-li

                > >

                >
              • etznab@aol.com
                My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people s works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day mundane existence. I
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 5, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  "My primary goal is personal experience,
                  but reading other people's works helps focus
                  my attention on something greater than day
                  to day mundane existence."

                  I agree that a lot can be learned from
                  others, while at the same time I suspect
                  there is a not so well noticed connection
                  between how people search and what they
                  actually find.

                  What I mean to say is that I believe one's
                  paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
                  happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
                  replaced by another. A better one. Because
                  the former seems to become old and like all
                  the juice squeezed out of the lemon.

                  Not wishing, or taking an initiative, might
                  seem to leave the same old, same old over
                  and over like a broken record.

                  This is one of the traps I have found myself
                  in time and time again. By limiting myself to
                  only certain specific paradigms, listening and
                  reading only certain specific authors and then
                  thinking along only certain specific lines.

                  I like to meet a variety of different people &
                  hear about a variety of different experiences.
                  In fact, I think if one would consider how many
                  different people there are in the world, and that
                  much potential for experience were available to
                  them, it might not sound too impossible how
                  one part of the "universe" could answer another
                  part. I suspect initiative at both ends of relation-
                  ships.

                  Etznab

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: drubezarn
                  e <drubezarne@...>
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:16 am
                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?



                  Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about

                  Eckankar's charlatans and other frauds who want to act as

                  intermediaries between God and Soul. On the other hand, concerning

                  your views about all other teachings I would have to disagree.



                  When I look closely at certain teachings or teachers who seem sincere

                  in their approach to bringing out truth, I detect a subtle golden

                  thread that runs throughout history. I'm not interested in the

                  limitations of orthodoxy or its insistence that I'm supposed to

                  imitate their way of life. Instead, I try to find writers who seem

                  honest and aren't looking for followers to make their living from or

                  boost their egos.



                  I take what I think sounds true and test it out for myself. For

                  example, I found Neville's "as if" principle extremely effective in

                  meditation/contemplation. On the inner planes, thinking and

                  visualization bring about events very quickly and that's when

                  assumptions can take me very far. After a while, I drop them because

                  they are no longer necessary.



                  The sound paths such as Sant Mat are helpful for getting into a trance

                  state while still retaining awareness. They are useful for numbing the

                  body and moving the consciousness beyond physical a
                  wareness. However,

                  I don't believe in focusing on or visualizing a master. I prefer to

                  place my attention on the formless.



                  Laurency's writings about Pythagorean Hylozoics appears to give one of

                  the best explanations for our existence.



                  By the way, Mish and Liz, I listened to the Jed McKenna audio books

                  and found a lot of references to Ramana Maharshi's writings. McKenna's

                  books influenced me to look into Maharshi's works. Ford's book

                  motivated me to look into Laurency's writings.



                  My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people's

                  works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day

                  mundane existence.



                  I don't believe in masters, but I do believe in teachers. If I want to

                  learn how to play piano, I'll find someone to teach me. The teacher is

                  there to show me the quickest and best way to get there, while my role

                  is to practice and develop my own style of playing.



                  All of us on this forum have been victims of the Eckankar racket and I

                  don't blame people for becoming cynics and debunkers of all

                  spiritual/religious teachings after leaving Eckankar. As for myself, I

                  don't plan to spend much more time putting my energies into debunking

                  Eckankar. The critical faculty has its uses, but when taken to the

                  extreme it kills off idealism. There's a lot more I want to explore

                  and test before20declaring "Everyone seems to be selling something for

                  one reason or another."



                  Call me an optimist, but I believe there are and were a few select

                  individuals who just wanted to bring out the truth because they woke

                  up to or achieved a certain high state of awareness. So, I don't think

                  selling, promoting, and persuading were their goals in life.



                  Regards

                  Liska



                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"

                  <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                  >

                  > Hello Ma-li,

                  > I thought I'd respond as well. For one

                  > thing I can't recommend anything to

                  > read, but I find many of the resources

                  > listed on this site to be interesting.

                  >

                  > As far as believing these and other sources

                  > of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything

                  > and everything by the so called "experts." I

                  > definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone

                  > seems to be selling something for one reason

                  > or another. The Truth is out there, is usually

                  > subjective, and is found within by each Soul.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Ma-li wrote:

                  > [snip]

                  > "Would anyone like to share with me how you

                  > handled it when you decided to leave, and

                  > especially what did you do about the spiritual

                  > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the

                  >
                  ; Eck Masters never really existed, except in

                  > writers' fertile minds, then who/what is

                  > left but God?"

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that

                  > many things in ECKankar just didn't make

                  > sense and didn't add up even though I wanted

                  > it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,

                  > and in the initiations but it was getting tougher

                  > every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s

                  > opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and

                  > one dimensional stories didn't help either.

                  > I found that I had to put blinders on and hold

                  > my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound

                  > believable to others.

                  >

                  > However, I've always known and had proof of

                  > Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).

                  > I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How

                  > of many specifics outside of my realm of experience

                  > and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk

                  > amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises

                  > or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many

                  > long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises

                  > because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking

                  > in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still

                  > HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I

                  > can experience a
                  Oneness with All There Is and a

                  > Contentment that I could never achieve while under

                  > the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give

                  > up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing

                  > new is it?

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > "God has always been the "real" aspect of my

                  > beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,

                  > the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,

                  > the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the

                  > warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.

                  > IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for

                  > the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.

                  > IT IS ME, and I AM IT."

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside

                  > and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and

                  > observing Nature is very contemplative and

                  > peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!

                  > The past tunes take one back to one's youth

                  > and beyond and into other times as does reading

                  > about or watching history on TV. It's good to

                  > know about how we became who we are and

                  > what we think we are in order to know more

                  > about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > "All this being said, I don't know what to do

                  > about spiritual exercises, or how to progres
                  s

                  > from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,

                  > and need to make a choice about what to do next.

                  > If someone would care to share their experiences

                  > and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You

                  > can use my private email if you'd prefer."

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.

                  > Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you

                  > buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it

                  > because of friends and/or the promise of God-

                  > Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble

                  > giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.

                  > I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would

                  > give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies

                  > after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after

                  > I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together

                  > and I saw the con and the realized why there were so

                  > many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or

                  > a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to

                  > me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my

                  > reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the

                  > same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > [snip]

                  > Ma-li (also) wrote:

                  > "...Then the doubts
                  and mental processes begin

                  > working until he's got himself almost convinced

                  > he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want

                  > to go back and change answers because he also

                  > feels he did the best he could.

                  >

                  > What does he do to fill the empty space?"

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time

                  > (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole

                  > it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!

                  > Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'

                  > middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own

                  > Masters in the making.

                  >

                  > When one follows another they give up their ability

                  > to choose and to discover their own Truth. They

                  > give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need

                  > a religion to believe in when they can't believe in

                  > Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in

                  > Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.

                  > No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.

                  >

                  > Prometheus

                  >
                • drubezarne
                  Etznab, your comments are constructive and I concur with what you said below... I agree that a lot can be learned from others, while at the same time I
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Etznab, your comments are constructive and I concur with what you said
                    below...

                    "I agree that a lot can be learned from
                    others, while at the same time I suspect
                    there is a not so well noticed connection
                    between how people search and what they
                    actually find.

                    What I mean to say is that I believe one's
                    paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
                    happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
                    replaced by another. A better one. Because
                    the former seems to become old and like all
                    the juice squeezed out of the lemon."

                    Due to the temporary nature of this world and everything in it, all
                    things have their place and value in time. As individual consciousness
                    evolves, old concepts no longer fit and the Soul moves on to newer and
                    greater horizons. It's what we all did when we rejected the idea of an
                    infallible master. I myself, realized that there is only God - Soul
                    and nothing in-between. Anyone who declares themselves an intermediary
                    between God and Soul is a fraud.

                    Regards
                    Liska

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > "My primary goal is personal experience,
                    > but reading other people's works helps focus
                    > my attention on something greater than day
                    > to day mundane existence."
                    >
                    > I agree that a lot can be learned from
                    > others, while at the same time I suspect
                    > there is a not so well noticed connection
                    > between how people search and what they
                    > actually find.
                    >
                    > What I mean to say is that I believe one's
                    > paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
                    > happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
                    > replaced by another. A better one. Because
                    > the former seems to become old and like all
                    > the juice squeezed out of the lemon.
                    >
                    > Not wishing, or taking an initiative, might
                    > seem to leave the same old, same old over
                    > and over like a broken record.
                    >
                    > This is one of the traps I have found myself
                    > in time and time again. By limiting myself to
                    > only certain specific paradigms, listening and
                    > reading only certain specific authors and then
                    > thinking along only certain specific lines.
                    >
                    > I like to meet a variety of different people &
                    > hear about a variety of different experiences.
                    > In fact, I think if one would consider how many
                    > different people there are in the world, and that
                    > much potential for experience were available to
                    > them, it might not sound too impossible how
                    > one part of the "universe" could answer another
                    > part. I suspect initiative at both ends of relation-
                    > ships.
                    >
                    > Etznab
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: drubezarn
                    > e <drubezarne@...>
                    > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:16 am
                    > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about
                    >
                    > Eckankar's charlatans and other frauds who want to act as
                    >
                    > intermediaries between God and Soul. On the other hand, concerning
                    >
                    > your views about all other teachings I would have to disagree.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > When I look closely at certain teachings or teachers who seem sincere
                    >
                    > in their approach to bringing out truth, I detect a subtle golden
                    >
                    > thread that runs throughout history. I'm not interested in the
                    >
                    > limitations of orthodoxy or its insistence that I'm supposed to
                    >
                    > imitate their way of life. Instead, I try to find writers who seem
                    >
                    > honest and aren't looking for followers to make their living from or
                    >
                    > boost their egos.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I take what I think sounds true and test it out for myself. For
                    >
                    > example, I found Neville's "as if" principle extremely effective in
                    >
                    > meditation/contemplation. On the inner planes, thinking and
                    >
                    > visualization bring about events very quickly and that's when
                    >
                    > assumptions can take me very far. After a while, I drop them because
                    >
                    > they are no longer necessary.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The sound paths such as Sant Mat are helpful for getting into a trance
                    >
                    > state while still retaining awareness. They are useful for numbing the
                    >
                    > body and moving the consciousness beyond physical a
                    > wareness. However,
                    >
                    > I don't believe in focusing on or visualizing a master. I prefer to
                    >
                    > place my attention on the formless.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Laurency's writings about Pythagorean Hylozoics appears to give one of
                    >
                    > the best explanations for our existence.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > By the way, Mish and Liz, I listened to the Jed McKenna audio books
                    >
                    > and found a lot of references to Ramana Maharshi's writings. McKenna's
                    >
                    > books influenced me to look into Maharshi's works. Ford's book
                    >
                    > motivated me to look into Laurency's writings.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people's
                    >
                    > works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day
                    >
                    > mundane existence.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I don't believe in masters, but I do believe in teachers. If I want to
                    >
                    > learn how to play piano, I'll find someone to teach me. The teacher is
                    >
                    > there to show me the quickest and best way to get there, while my role
                    >
                    > is to practice and develop my own style of playing.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > All of us on this forum have been victims of the Eckankar racket and I
                    >
                    > don't blame people for becoming cynics and debunkers of all
                    >
                    > spiritual/religious teachings after leaving Eckankar. As for myself, I
                    >
                    > don't plan to spend much more time putting my energies into debunking
                    >
                    > Eckankar. The critical faculty has its uses, but when taken to the
                    >
                    > extreme it kills off idealism. There's a lot more I want to explore
                    >
                    > and test before20declaring "Everyone seems to be selling something for
                    >
                    > one reason or another."
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Call me an optimist, but I believe there are and were a few select
                    >
                    > individuals who just wanted to bring out the truth because they woke
                    >
                    > up to or achieved a certain high state of awareness. So, I don't think
                    >
                    > selling, promoting, and persuading were their goals in life.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Regards
                    >
                    > Liska
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                    >
                    > prometheus_973@ wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Hello Ma-li,
                    >
                    > > I thought I'd respond as well. For one
                    >
                    > > thing I can't recommend anything to
                    >
                    > > read, but I find many of the resources
                    >
                    > > listed on this site to be interesting.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > As far as believing these and other sources
                    >
                    > > of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
                    >
                    > > and everything by the so called "experts." I
                    >
                    > > definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
                    >
                    > > seems to be selling something for one reason
                    >
                    > > or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
                    >
                    > > subjective, and is found within by each Soul.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Ma-li wrote:
                    >
                    > > [snip]
                    >
                    > > "Would anyone like to share with me how you
                    >
                    > > handled it when you decided to leave, and
                    >
                    > > especially what did you do about the spiritual
                    >
                    > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
                    >
                    > >
                    > ; Eck Masters never really existed, except in
                    >
                    > > writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                    >
                    > > left but God?"
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
                    >
                    > > many things in ECKankar just didn't make
                    >
                    > > sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
                    >
                    > > it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
                    >
                    > > and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
                    >
                    > > every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
                    >
                    > > opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
                    >
                    > > one dimensional stories didn't help either.
                    >
                    > > I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
                    >
                    > > my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
                    >
                    > > believable to others.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > However, I've always known and had proof of
                    >
                    > > Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
                    >
                    > > I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
                    >
                    > > of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
                    >
                    > > and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
                    >
                    > > amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
                    >
                    > > or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
                    >
                    > > long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
                    >
                    > > because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
                    >
                    > > in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
                    >
                    > > HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
                    >
                    > > can experience a
                    > Oneness with All There Is and a
                    >
                    > > Contentment that I could never achieve while under
                    >
                    > > the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
                    >
                    > > up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
                    >
                    > > new is it?
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
                    >
                    > > beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
                    >
                    > > the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
                    >
                    > > the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
                    >
                    > > warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
                    >
                    > > IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
                    >
                    > > the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
                    >
                    > > IT IS ME, and I AM IT."
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
                    >
                    > > and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
                    >
                    > > observing Nature is very contemplative and
                    >
                    > > peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
                    >
                    > > The past tunes take one back to one's youth
                    >
                    > > and beyond and into other times as does reading
                    >
                    > > about or watching history on TV. It's good to
                    >
                    > > know about how we became who we are and
                    >
                    > > what we think we are in order to know more
                    >
                    > > about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > "All this being said, I don't know what to do
                    >
                    > > about spiritual exercises, or how to progres
                    > s
                    >
                    > > from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
                    >
                    > > and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                    >
                    > > If someone would care to share their experiences
                    >
                    > > and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
                    >
                    > > can use my private email if you'd prefer."
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
                    >
                    > > Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
                    >
                    > > buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
                    >
                    > > because of friends and/or the promise of God-
                    >
                    > > Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
                    >
                    > > giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
                    >
                    > > I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
                    >
                    > > give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
                    >
                    > > after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
                    >
                    > > I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
                    >
                    > > and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
                    >
                    > > many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
                    >
                    > > a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
                    >
                    > > me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
                    >
                    > > reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
                    >
                    > > same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > [snip]
                    >
                    > > Ma-li (also) wrote:
                    >
                    > > "...Then the doubts
                    > and mental processes begin
                    >
                    > > working until he's got himself almost convinced
                    >
                    > > he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
                    >
                    > > to go back and change answers because he also
                    >
                    > > feels he did the best he could.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > What does he do to fill the empty space?"
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
                    >
                    > > (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
                    >
                    > > it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
                    >
                    > > Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
                    >
                    > > middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
                    >
                    > > Masters in the making.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > When one follows another they give up their ability
                    >
                    > > to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
                    >
                    > > give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
                    >
                    > > a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
                    >
                    > > Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
                    >
                    > > Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
                    >
                    > > No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Prometheus
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Ma-li
                    Liska,   I totally agree with what you stated in your last paragraph.  Would that I had known that years aog, it might have saved me a lot of problems. 
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Liska,
                       
                      I totally agree with what you stated in your last paragraph.  Would that I had known that years aog, it might have saved me a lot of problems.  However, then I would not have learned all the truths I did find thru Eckankar, and for that I'm eternally grateful.  I'm right where I'm supposed to be, in the perfect place and in the perfect moment.
                       
                      Namaste,
                       
                      Ma-li

                      --- On Sat, 12/6/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
                      From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
                      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 11:52 AM

                      Etznab, your comments are constructive and I concur with what you said
                      below...

                      "I agree that a lot can be learned from
                      others, while at the same time I suspect
                      there is a not so well noticed connection
                      between how people search and what they
                      actually find.

                      What I mean to say is that I believe one's
                      paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
                      happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
                      replaced by another. A better one. Because
                      the former seems to become old and like all
                      the juice squeezed out of the lemon."

                      Due to the temporary nature of this world and everything in it, all
                      things have their place and value in time. As individual consciousness
                      evolves, old concepts no longer fit and the Soul moves on to newer and
                      greater horizons. It's what we all did when we rejected the idea of an
                      infallible master. I myself, realized that there is only God - Soul
                      and nothing in-between. Anyone who declares themselves an intermediary
                      between God and Soul is a fraud.

                      Regards
                      Liska

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > "My primary goal is personal experience,
                      > but reading other people's works helps focus
                      > my attention on something greater than day
                      > to day mundane existence."
                      >
                      > I agree that a lot can be learned from
                      > others, while at the same time I suspect
                      > there is a not so well noticed connection
                      > between how people search and what they
                      > actually find.
                      >
                      > What I mean to say is that I believe one's
                      > paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
                      > happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
                      > replaced by another. A better one. Because
                      > the former seems to become old and like all
                      > the juice squeezed out of the lemon.
                      >
                      > Not wishing, or taking an initiative, might
                      > seem to leave the same old, same old over
                      > and over like a broken record.
                      >
                      > This is one of the traps I have found myself
                      > in time and time again. By limiting myself to
                      > only certain specific paradigms, listening and
                      > reading only certain specific authors and then
                      > thinking along only certain specific lines.
                      >
                      > I like to meet a variety of different people &
                      > hear about a variety of different experiences.
                      > In fact, I think if one would consider how many
                      > different people there are in the world, and that
                      > much potential for experience were available to
                      > them, it might not sound too impossible how
                      > one part of the "universe" could answer another
                      > part. I suspect initiative at both ends of relation-
                      > ships.
                      >
                      > Etznab
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: drubezarn
                      > e <drubezarne@ ...>
                      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
                      > Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:16 am
                      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: What now?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about
                      >
                      > Eckankar's charlatans and other frauds who want to act as
                      >
                      > intermediaries between God and Soul. On the other hand, concerning
                      >
                      > your views about all other teachings I would have to disagree.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > When I look closely at certain teachings or teachers who seem sincere
                      >
                      > in their approach to bringing out truth, I detect a subtle golden
                      >
                      > thread that runs throughout history. I'm not interested in the
                      >
                      > limitations of orthodoxy or its insistence that I'm supposed to
                      >
                      > imitate their way of life. Instead, I try to find writers who seem
                      >
                      > honest and aren't looking for followers to make their living from or
                      >
                      > boost their egos.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I take what I think sounds true and test it out for myself. For
                      >
                      > example, I found Neville's "as if" principle extremely effective in
                      >
                      > meditation/contempl ation. On the inner planes, thinking and
                      >
                      > visualization bring about events very quickly and that's when
                      >
                      > assumptions can take me very far. After a while, I drop them because
                      >
                      > they are no longer necessary.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The sound paths such as Sant Mat are helpful for getting into a trance
                      >
                      > state while still retaining awareness. They are useful for numbing the
                      >
                      > body and moving the consciousness beyond physical a
                      > wareness. However,
                      >
                      > I don't believe in focusing on or visualizing a master. I prefer to
                      >
                      > place my attention on the formless.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Laurency's writings about Pythagorean Hylozoics appears to give one of
                      >
                      > the best explanations for our existence.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > By the way, Mish and Liz, I listened to the Jed McKenna audio books
                      >
                      > and found a lot of references to Ramana Maharshi's writings. McKenna's
                      >
                      > books influenced me to look into Maharshi's works. Ford's book
                      >
                      > motivated me to look into Laurency's writings.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people's
                      >
                      > works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day
                      >
                      > mundane existence.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I don't believe in masters, but I do believe in teachers. If I want to
                      >
                      > learn how to play piano, I'll find someone to teach me. The teacher is
                      >
                      > there to show me the quickest and best way to get there, while my role
                      >
                      > is to practice and develop my own style of playing.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > All of us on this forum have been victims of the Eckankar racket and I
                      >
                      > don't blame people for becoming cynics and debunkers of all
                      >
                      > spiritual/religious teachings after leaving Eckankar. As for myself, I
                      >
                      > don't plan to spend much more time putting my energies into debunking
                      >
                      > Eckankar. The critical faculty has its uses, but when taken to the
                      >
                      > extreme it kills off idealism. There's a lot more I want to explore
                      >
                      > and test before20declaring "Everyone seems to be selling something for
                      >
                      > one reason or another."
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Call me an optimist, but I believe there are and were a few select
                      >
                      > individuals who just wanted to bring out the truth because they woke
                      >
                      > up to or achieved a certain high state of awareness. So, I don't think
                      >
                      > selling, promoting, and persuading were their goals in life.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Regards
                      >
                      > Liska
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_ 973"
                      >
                      > prometheus_973@ wrote:
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; Hello Ma-li,
                      >
                      > &gt; I thought I'd respond as well. For one
                      >
                      > &gt; thing I can't recommend anything to
                      >
                      > &gt; read, but I find many of the resources
                      >
                      > &gt; listed on this site to be interesting.
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; As far as believing these and other sources
                      >
                      > &gt; of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
                      >
                      > &gt; and everything by the so called "experts." I
                      >
                      > &gt; definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
                      >
                      > &gt; seems to be selling something for one reason
                      >
                      > &gt; or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
                      >
                      > &gt; subjective, and is found within by each Soul.
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; Ma-li wrote:
                      >
                      > &gt; [snip]
                      >
                      > &gt; "Would anyone like to share with me how you
                      >
                      > &gt; handled it when you decided to leave, and
                      >
                      > &gt; especially what did you do about the spiritual
                      >
                      > &gt; exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
                      >
                      > &gt
                      > ; Eck Masters never really existed, except in
                      >
                      > &gt; writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                      >
                      > &gt; left but God?"
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
                      >
                      > &gt; many things in ECKankar just didn't make
                      >
                      > &gt; sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
                      >
                      > &gt; it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
                      >
                      > &gt; and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
                      >
                      > &gt; every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
                      >
                      > &gt; opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
                      >
                      > &gt; one dimensional stories didn't help either.
                      >
                      > &gt; I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
                      >
                      > &gt; my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
                      >
                      > &gt; believable to others.
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; However, I've always known and had proof of
                      >
                      > &gt; Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
                      >
                      > &gt; I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
                      >
                      > &gt; of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
                      >
                      > &gt; and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
                      >
                      > &gt; amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
                      >
                      > &gt; or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
                      >
                      > &gt; long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
                      >
                      > &gt; because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
                      >
                      > &gt; in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
                      >
                      > &gt; HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
                      >
                      > &gt; can experience a
                      > Oneness with All There Is and a
                      >
                      > &gt; Contentment that I could never achieve while under
                      >
                      > &gt; the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
                      >
                      > &gt; up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
                      >
                      > &gt; new is it?
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
                      >
                      > &gt; beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
                      >
                      > &gt; the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
                      >
                      > &gt; the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
                      >
                      > &gt; warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
                      >
                      > &gt; IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
                      >
                      > &gt; the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
                      >
                      > &gt; IT IS ME, and I AM IT."
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
                      >
                      > &gt; and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
                      >
                      > &gt; observing Nature is very contemplative and
                      >
                      > &gt; peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
                      >
                      > &gt; The past tunes take one back to one's youth
                      >
                      > &gt; and beyond and into other times as does reading
                      >
                      > &gt; about or watching history on TV. It's good to
                      >
                      > &gt; know about how we became who we are and
                      >
                      > &gt; what we think we are in order to know more
                      >
                      > &gt; about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; "All this being said, I don't know what to do
                      >
                      > &gt; about spiritual exercises, or how to progres
                      > s
                      >
                      > &gt; from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
                      >
                      > &gt; and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                      >
                      > &gt; If someone would care to share their experiences
                      >
                      > &gt; and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
                      >
                      > &gt; can use my private email if you'd prefer."
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
                      >
                      > &gt; Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
                      >
                      > &gt; buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
                      >
                      > &gt; because of friends and/or the promise of God-
                      >
                      > &gt; Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
                      >
                      > &gt; giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
                      >
                      > &gt; I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
                      >
                      > &gt; give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
                      >
                      > &gt; after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
                      >
                      > &gt; I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
                      >
                      > &gt; and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
                      >
                      > &gt; many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
                      >
                      > &gt; a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
                      >
                      > &gt; me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
                      >
                      > &gt; reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
                      >
                      > &gt; same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; [snip]
                      >
                      > &gt; Ma-li (also) wrote:
                      >
                      > &gt; "...Then the doubts
                      > and mental processes begin
                      >
                      > &gt; working until he's got himself almost convinced
                      >
                      > &gt; he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
                      >
                      > &gt; to go back and change answers because he also
                      >
                      > &gt; feels he did the best he could.
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; What does he do to fill the empty space?"
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
                      >
                      > &gt; (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
                      >
                      > &gt; it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
                      >
                      > &gt; Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
                      >
                      > &gt; middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
                      >
                      > &gt; Masters in the making.
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; When one follows another they give up their ability
                      >
                      > &gt; to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
                      >
                      > &gt; give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
                      >
                      > &gt; a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
                      >
                      > &gt; Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
                      >
                      > &gt; Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
                      >
                      > &gt; No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >
                      > &gt; Prometheus
                      >
                      > &gt;
                      >


                    • Ma-li
                      Thank you, Mish, and I will take time to just enjoy the empty spaces.  I have a feeling they won t be around much longer. lol  Haven t read the books you
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thank you, Mish, and I will take time to just enjoy the empty spaces.  I have a feeling they won't be around much longer. lol  Haven't read the books you recommend, but will find them one day soon.
                         
                        Re: tests in college....those were the days.lol  I did just what you did....left the others to sit and stew while I was out enjoying what the day had to offer.  Funny how the faster I did a test the better score I received.
                         
                        Namaste
                         
                        Ma-li

                        --- On Fri, 12/5/08, mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
                        From: mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...>
                        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
                        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 8:16 AM

                        Hello Ma-li!

                        I like your questions about filling in the empty spaces,
                        what to do now? Likening it to finishing a 3 hour test in
                        one hour, reminded me of my college days! Actually, I
                        remember a few occasions when taking an exam that I
                        did actually finish quite early . . . and I remember some
                        self-doubts about why I finished it so quickly while others
                        were still laboring over the exam. What did I do?? I turned
                        the exam in and left the room! And then I did sort of a
                        happy dance outside, glad to be free of that exam room . . .
                        and how did I do? Well, I did quite well, because I had
                        aced those exams, and I was free to go on to the next
                        thing . . . and being a college student, I remember heading
                        to the beach with some friends for one time and having so
                        much fun. Can't quite remember on the other occasions, but
                        if it was just before school break, I probably got an early
                        start for home! So I guess my message is to trust yourself! : )

                        Empty spaces are a luxury really, but they often come at a
                        hard time, so there can be the feeling of loss . . . and we
                        want to quickly fill it up again with something else. I think
                        it is good to just take one's time and find things that are of
                        interest. I remember one time in my life when I had to sort
                        of re-invent myself. Every morning I'd ask myself what it
                        was that I wanted and needed to do with my life to make
                        myself happy. Happiness is so essential--it is not selfish to
                        want to seek this IMO. My goals had to be reasonable and
                        attainable goals--that was one stipulation I placed on myself.
                        I finally defined what it was I wanted and wanted to do and
                        then I looked for the ways to accomplish it all, one by one.

                        I guess what I'm saying you have to ask yourself what it is
                        you need and then find the ways to have it. But take your
                        time and enjoy the freedom of those empty spaces because
                        they allow you freedom for introspection which is needed to
                        take the next steps--all by your own choices and decisions!

                        Good luck! And I'd like to offer a couple of books for reading
                        as well. One member of our site who left eckankar after 30
                        years found Jed McKenna's book "Spiritual Enlightenment, the
                        Damnest Thing" to greatly help her to handle the void. She
                        still says it is the best book! I also like Sam Harris' book "The
                        End of Faith", and also enjoyed Bill Moyers TV series on "On Faith
                        and Reason" to be quite valuable. You can google for the Bill
                        Moyers series to find and read the transcripts.

                        Mish

                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, Ma-li <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Non ekster et al,
                        >  
                        > It's not so much that I'm searching for anything, it's more like I'm living in the Now all
                        the time. However, on another level, I think/feel that I should be doing/being something
                        more than just being.  Don't know if that makes sense, so I'll liken it to the student who
                        finishes a 3 hour test in an hour.  What does he do for the other 2 hours...just sit there
                        quietly, leave the room, or go back over the test yet again?  He's in a quandry, and it
                        doesn't feel right that he's finished early. Then the doubts and mental processes begin
                        working until he's got himself almost convinced he really screwed up the test, but he
                        doesn't want to go back and change answers because he also feels he did the best he
                        could.  What does he do to fill the empty space?
                        >  
                        > Namaste
                        >  
                        > Ma-li
                        >
                        > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Non ekster <eckchains@. ..> wrote:
                        >
                        > From: Non ekster <eckchains@. ..>
                        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: What now?
                        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
                        > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:02 AM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Sometimes it's best to just stop Searching.
                        >
                        > Non ekster ; )
                        >
                        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mhstarlings"
                        > <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello All,
                        > >
                        > > I have come to the place where I was in 1973 before I joined
                        > > Eckankar. The difference is whatI know now, and all the years of Eck
                        > > teachings that have filled those years up to maybe 7 years ago.
                        > > Seven years is how long it's been since I felt "right" about
                        > > remaining in Eckankar, and it's taken me this long to find answers,
                        > > and to make the decision to sever my ties with it.
                        > >
                        > > Would anyone like to share with me how you handled it when you
                        > > decided to leave, and especially what did you do about the spiritual
                        > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the Eck Masters never
                        > > really existed, except in writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                        > > left but God?
                        > >
                        > > God has always been the "real" aspect of my beliefs. IT is in
                        > > everything, be it rocks, trees, the two-legged beings, the four-
                        > > legged beings, the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the warm
                        > > Summer breeze that tickles the leaves. IT is the rain that gives
                        > > and sustains life for the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in
                        > > everything. IT IS ME, and I AM IT.
                        > >
                        > > All this being said, I don't know what to do about spiritual
                        > > exercises, or how to progress from here. It's like I'm standing
                        > > alone once again, and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                        > > If someone would care to share their experiences and choices from
                        > > this point, I'd appreciate it. You can use my private email if
                        > > you'd prefer.
                        > >
                        > > Thank you all for being here, and thank you so much Prometheus for
                        > > creating this forum for people like me to find when they search for
                        > > the answers.
                        > >
                        > > Namaste
                        > >
                        > > Ma-li
                        > >
                        >


                      • Ma-li
                        Liska, I haven t checked these out yet, but will soon.  Still trying to get all of Ford s ebook read, but have to do it slowly since it really hurts my eyes
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Liska, I haven't checked these out yet, but will soon.  Still trying to get all of Ford's ebook read, but have to do it slowly since it really hurts my eyes to read on the monitor.
                           
                          Thanks bunches.
                           
                          Namaste
                           
                          Ma-li

                          --- On Thu, 12/4/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
                          From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
                          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:30 PM

                          Ma-li,
                          Have you checked out the free Henry T. Laurency .pdf books?

                          http://laurency. com/

                          I also recommend Neville Goddard, Joel Goldsmith, Ramana Maharshi, and
                          Jiddu Krishnamurti.

                          Regards
                          Liska

                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, Ma-li
                          <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Non ekster et al,
                          >  
                          > It's not so much that I'm searching for anything, it's more like I'm
                          living in the Now all the time. However, on another level, I
                          think/feel that I should be doing/being something more than just
                          being.  Don't know if that makes sense, so I'll liken it to the
                          student who finishes a 3 hour test in an hour.  What does he do for
                          the other 2 hours...just sit there quietly, leave the room, or go back
                          over the test yet again?  He's in a quandry, and it doesn't feel right
                          that he's finished early. Then the doubts and mental processes begin
                          working until he's got himself almost convinced he really screwed up
                          the test, but he doesn't want to go back and change answers because he
                          also feels he did the best he could.  What does he do to fill the
                          empty space?
                          >  
                          > Namaste
                          >  
                          > Ma-li
                          >
                          > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Non ekster <eckchains@. ..> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: Non ekster <eckchains@. ..>
                          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: What now?
                          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
                          > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 12:02 AM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Sometimes it's best to just stop Searching.
                          >
                          > Non ekster ; )
                          >
                          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mhstarlings"
                          > <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello All,
                          > >
                          > > I have come to the place where I was in 1973 before I joined
                          > > Eckankar. The difference is whatI know now, and all the years of Eck
                          > > teachings that have filled those years up to maybe 7 years ago.
                          > > Seven years is how long it's been since I felt "right" about
                          > > remaining in Eckankar, and it's taken me this long to find answers,
                          > > and to make the decision to sever my ties with it.
                          > >
                          > > Would anyone like to share with me how you handled it when you
                          > > decided to leave, and especially what did you do about the spiritual
                          > > exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the Eck Masters never
                          > > really existed, except in writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                          > > left but God?
                          > >
                          > > God has always been the "real" aspect of my beliefs. IT is in
                          > > everything, be it rocks, trees, the two-legged beings, the four-
                          > > legged beings, the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the warm
                          > > Summer breeze that tickles the leaves. IT is the rain that gives
                          > > and sustains life for the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in
                          > > everything. IT IS ME, and I AM IT.
                          > >
                          > > All this being said, I don't know what to do about spiritual
                          > > exercises, or how to progress from here. It's like I'm standing
                          > > alone once again, and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                          > > If someone would care to share their experiences and choices from
                          > > this point, I'd appreciate it. You can use my private email if
                          > > you'd prefer.
                          > >
                          > > Thank you all for being here, and thank you so much Prometheus for
                          > > creating this forum for people like me to find when they search for
                          > > the answers.
                          > >
                          > > Namaste
                          > >
                          > > Ma-li
                          > >
                          >


                        • Ma-li
                          Hi Prometheus,   Thank you for all your wonderful, knowledgeable comments.  I do appreciate them, and can relate to what you said.   I too wanted to believe
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Prometheus,
                             
                            Thank you for all your wonderful, knowledgeable comments.  I do appreciate them, and can relate to what you said.
                             
                            I too wanted to believe all the malarky that was being fed to me, and had problems buying into what HK was saying.  As Eckankar evolved/devolved under HK, it seemed to be leaving me with an empty feeling.  I could get the same stories from any 5th grader.  I made that comment to another Eckist, and was told HK had to make it simpler for those just "coming in".  If those "coming in" were supposed to be already more spiritually advanced than those of us who had been there a long time, then why dumb it down.  Just one more thing that didn't set well with me.
                             
                            As for the spiritual exercises, apparently I didn't do them in an acceptable manner, but that was the way that was comfortable to me.  I haven't done them in quite a while now, and eventually will invent my own means of doing spiritual contemplation, if need be.  I spend a lot of time in Nature....gonna go out on a limb here and tell you that my entire life has been involved with helping animals in need...from the newborn to the ancient with special needs that require almost constant care.  I learned more about love from these animals than I ever did from HK, and feel blessed to have been given so much unconditional love and trust by beings usually untrusting of humans.  As each one passed over, it broke my heart, but I knew they were in a better place.  At least they had experienced love on this plane, and I'm sure it helped their Soul progression too. They were as close to me as my own heartbeat, and still are even tho' they have gone.
                             
                            By giving up this spiritual path, I feel more free to be me, and to know and love all life whatever the form.  Still have to work on the rattlesnakes and flies however. lol
                             
                            I think I bought into Eckankar for as long as I did because it seemed like the right thing to do at the time.  As the dis-satisfatico grew, I knew I had to be true to myself first and foremost.  Maybe it was the challenge of attaining initiations, I'm not certain.  I just know that somewhere along the line they ceased to matter, and my eyes were opening to see more about the spiritual path I was on. Didn't like what I saw, but didn't know how to get off the path.   I have done lots of "outside" reading over the years, and that has been instrumental in my eyes being opened.  Then there was that little sticking point that has always galled me........needing a mediator to connect with God.  If I didn't believe priests, ministers etc. could do it,  why should the Mahanta be any different???  There was no difference, and I finally "saw the light".
                             
                            My test has been taken, and I've completed it long before the others.  I have no doubts, and don't need to recheck my answers.  I won't sit around and wait for the others to finish, but will walk out the door into a world of fun, love, joy, and totally of my making.  I am the captain of my own ship now, and feel certain I will attain whatever spiritual goals I set for myself.
                             
                            I have been feeling guilty about not feeling guilty about leaving Eckankar.  It was guilt that had me wondering what to do next.  Now, thanks to all the wonderful posts by you, etznab, aftrek, mish, the guilt has gone away.  You all took the plunge with your eyes wide open, went thru the "what now" period, and emerged on the other side as full, complete human beings in charge of your own destinies.  May I join your ranks? 


                            --- On Thu, 12/4/08, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
                            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:26 PM

                            Hello Ma-li,
                            I thought I'd respond as well. For one
                            thing I can't recommend anything to
                            read, but I find many of the resources
                            listed on this site to be interesting.

                            As far as believing these and other sources
                            of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
                            and everything by the so called "experts." I
                            definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
                            seems to be selling something for one reason
                            or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
                            subjective, and is found within by each Soul.

                            Ma-li wrote:
                            [snip]
                            "Would anyone like to share with me how you
                            handled it when you decided to leave, and
                            especially what did you do about the spiritual
                            exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
                            Eck Masters never really existed, except in
                            writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                            left but God?"

                            *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
                            many things in ECKankar just didn't make
                            sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
                            it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
                            and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
                            every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
                            opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
                            one dimensional stories didn't help either.
                            I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
                            my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
                            believable to others.

                            However, I've always known and had proof of
                            Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
                            I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
                            of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
                            and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
                            amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
                            or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
                            long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
                            because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
                            in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
                            HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
                            can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a
                            Contentment that I could never achieve while under
                            the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
                            up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
                            new is it?

                            "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
                            beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
                            the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
                            the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
                            warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
                            IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
                            the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
                            IT IS ME, and I AM IT."

                            *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
                            and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
                            observing Nature is very contemplative and
                            peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
                            The past tunes take one back to one's youth
                            and beyond and into other times as does reading
                            about or watching history on TV. It's good to
                            know about how we became who we are and
                            what we think we are in order to know more
                            about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.

                            "All this being said, I don't know what to do
                            about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
                            from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
                            and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                            If someone would care to share their experiences
                            and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
                            can use my private email if you'd prefer."

                            *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
                            Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
                            buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
                            because of friends and/or the promise of God-
                            Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
                            giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
                            I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
                            give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
                            after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
                            I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
                            and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
                            many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
                            a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
                            me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
                            reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
                            same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!

                            [snip]
                            Ma-li (also) wrote:
                            "...Then the doubts and mental processes begin
                            working until he's got himself almost convinced
                            he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
                            to go back and change answers because he also
                            feels he did the best he could.

                            What does he do to fill the empty space?"

                            *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
                            (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
                            it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
                            Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
                            middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
                            Masters in the making.

                            When one follows another they give up their ability
                            to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
                            give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
                            a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
                            Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
                            Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
                            No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.

                            Prometheus



                          • prometheus_973
                            Hello Ma-li, It appears that you have already joined our ranks! You sound like an old friend where the passage of time and space becomes irrelevant to the
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 6, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hello Ma-li,
                              It appears that you have already joined
                              our ranks! You sound like an old friend
                              where the passage of time and space
                              becomes irrelevant to the friendship,
                              the journey, and to the connection of Soul.

                              I enjoyed reading of your experiences
                              and insights too. Yes, I too have mixed
                              feelings about flies and rattlesnakes.
                              I usually give them fair warning first and
                              offer them an out before taking preventative
                              (extreme) measures. The thing is it startles
                              me, at times, when other (friendly) snakes
                              sneak up on me, or I "discover" them. It's
                              actually kind of funny, but I scold them
                              for scaring me or for me scaring myself!

                              Prometheus


                              Ma-li wrote:
                              Hi Prometheus,

                              Thank you for all your wonderful, knowledgeable
                              comments. I do appreciate them, and can relate
                              to what you said.

                              I too wanted to believe all the malarky that was
                              being fed to me, and had problems buying into
                              what HK was saying. As Eckankar evolved/devolved
                              under HK, it seemed to be leaving me with an empty
                              feeling. I could get the same stories from any 5th
                              grader. I made that comment to another Eckist,
                              and was told HK had to make it simpler for those
                              just "coming in". If those "coming in" were supposed
                              to be already more spiritually advanced than those
                              of us who had been there a long time, then why
                              dumb it down. Just one more thing that didn't set
                              well with me.

                              As for the spiritual exercises, apparently I didn't
                              do them in an acceptable manner, but that was
                              the way that was comfortable to me. I haven't
                              done them in quite a while now, and eventually
                              will invent my own means of doing spiritual
                              contemplation, if need be. I spend a lot of time
                              in Nature....gonna go out on a limb here and tell
                              you that my entire life has been involved with
                              helping animals in need...from the newborn to
                              the ancient with special needs that require almost
                              constant care. I learned more about love from
                              these animals than I ever did from HK, and feel
                              blessed to have been given so much unconditional
                              love and trust by beings usually untrusting of humans.
                              As each one passed over, it broke my heart, but
                              I knew they were in a better place. At least they
                              had experienced love on this plane, and I'm sure
                              it helped their Soul progression too. They were as
                              close to me as my own heartbeat, and still are even
                              tho' they have gone.

                              By giving up this spiritual path, I feel more free
                              to be me, and to know and love all life whatever
                              the form. Still have to work on the rattlesnakes
                              and flies however. lol

                              I think I bought into Eckankar for as long as I did
                              because it seemed like the right thing to do at the
                              time. As the dis-satisfatico grew, I knew I had to
                              be true to myself first and foremost. Maybe it was
                              the challenge of attaining initiations, I'm not certain.
                              I just know that somewhere along the line they ceased
                              to matter, and my eyes were opening to see more
                              about the spiritual path I was on. Didn't like what
                              I saw, but didn't know how to get off the path.
                              I have done lots of "outside" reading over the years,
                              and that has been instrumental in my eyes being
                              opened. Then there was that little sticking point
                              that has always galled me........needing a mediator
                              to connect with God. If I didn't believe priests,
                              ministers etc. could do it, why should the Mahanta
                              be any different??? There was no difference, and
                              I finally "saw the light".

                              My test has been taken, and I've completed it long
                              before the others. I have no doubts, and don't need
                              to recheck my answers. I won't sit around and wait
                              for the others to finish, but will walk out the door
                              into a world of fun, love, joy, and totally of my making.
                              I am the captain of my own ship now, and feel certain
                              I will attain whatever spiritual goals I set for myself.

                              I have been feeling guilty about not feeling guilty
                              about leaving Eckankar. It was guilt that had me
                              wondering what to do next. Now, thanks to all the
                              wonderful posts by you, etznab, aftrek, mish, the
                              guilt has gone away. You all took the plunge with
                              your eyes wide open, went thru the "what now"
                              period, and emerged on the other side as full,
                              complete human beings in charge of your own
                              destinies. May I join your ranks?

                              ************************************************
                              prometheus wrote:

                              Hello Ma-li,
                              I thought I'd respond as well. For one
                              thing I can't recommend anything to
                              read, but I find many of the resources
                              listed on this site to be interesting.

                              As far as believing these and other sources
                              of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
                              and everything by the so called "experts." I
                              definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
                              seems to be selling something for one reason
                              or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
                              subjective, and is found within by each Soul.

                              Ma-li wrote:
                              [snip]
                              "Would anyone like to share with me how you
                              handled it when you decided to leave, and
                              especially what did you do about the spiritual
                              exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
                              Eck Masters never really existed, except in
                              writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
                              left but God?"

                              *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
                              many things in ECKankar just didn't make
                              sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
                              it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
                              and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
                              every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
                              opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
                              one dimensional stories didn't help either.
                              I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
                              my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
                              believable to others.

                              However, I've always known and had proof of
                              Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
                              I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
                              of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
                              and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
                              amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
                              or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
                              long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
                              because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
                              in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
                              HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
                              can experience a Oneness with All There Is and a
                              Contentment that I could never achieve while under
                              the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
                              up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
                              new is it?

                              "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
                              beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
                              the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
                              the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
                              warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
                              IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
                              the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
                              IT IS ME, and I AM IT."

                              *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
                              and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
                              observing Nature is very contemplative and
                              peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
                              The past tunes take one back to one's youth
                              and beyond and into other times as does reading
                              about or watching history on TV. It's good to
                              know about how we became who we are and
                              what we think we are in order to know more
                              about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.

                              "All this being said, I don't know what to do
                              about spiritual exercises, or how to progress
                              from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
                              and need to make a choice about what to do next.
                              If someone would care to share their experiences
                              and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
                              can use my private email if you'd prefer."

                              *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
                              Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
                              buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
                              because of friends and/or the promise of God-
                              Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
                              giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
                              I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
                              give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
                              after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
                              I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
                              and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
                              many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
                              a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
                              me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
                              reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
                              same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!

                              [snip]
                              Ma-li (also) wrote:
                              "...Then the doubts and mental processes begin
                              working until he's got himself almost convinced
                              he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
                              to go back and change answers because he also
                              feels he did the best he could.

                              What does he do to fill the empty space?"

                              *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
                              (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
                              it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
                              Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
                              middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
                              Masters in the making.

                              When one follows another they give up their ability
                              to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
                              give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
                              a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
                              Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
                              Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
                              No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.

                              Prometheus
                            • drubezarne
                              Hi Leanne, I think Ford s statements about Hu and Aum might be valid here. In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson, he says... I would ven­ture that
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 7, 2008
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                                Hi Leanne, I think Ford's statements about Hu and Aum might be valid here.

                                In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson, he says...

                                "I would ven­ture that God has no pref­er­ence and al­so that all
                                sounds and words are part of ALL THAT IS, and serve equal­ly well in
                                gar­ner­ing God's at­ten­tion."

                                and...

                                "The im­por­tant point is that all sounds or mantras can en­able the
                                in­di­vid­ual to tran­scend the phys­ical di­men­sion and
                                ex­pe­ri­ence the ec­stat­ic states and the in­ner planes...They all
                                work and can en­able the in­divid­ual to hear the re­mark­able and
                                awe-in­spir­ing sounds of the in­ner worlds. As­crib­ing greater
                                mag­ic to one sound or mantra over an­oth­er is much like ar­gu­ing
                                whose God is great­est. It is a mean­ing­less de­bate for ev­ery­thing
                                is part of the ONE. Fur­ther, when the prac­ti­tion­er has had some
                                ex­pe­ri­ence with these mantras and the in­ner ex­pe­ri­ences that
                                follow, she will come to the re­al­iza­tion that these are not
                                out­side sounds; they are a part of her."

                                and...

                                "The Va­lid­ity of Spir­itu­al Ex­er­cis­es. The ba­sic spir­itu­al
                                ex­er­cise of Eck, which Paul called "the easy way," is al­so the
                                ba­sic ex­er­cise of the Shabd Yo­ga tra­di­tion, and, as such,
                                car­ries with it the in­trin­sic va­lid­ity of this prac­tice in the
                                Yo­ga tradi­tion. In these teach­ings, the HU is sung "Hooooooo,"
                                where­as in Eck­ankar, it is sung "Hu­uu­uu­uuu" or "hugh" — Paul's
                                ef­fort to make it unique. The dif­fer­ence is of no re­al
                                sig­nif­icance. Each sound will work and should be con­tin­ued if it
                                works for you."

                                As to Ek Onkar; it is a Sikh term that means "God is One." Julian
                                Johnson's Path of the Masters mentions it. If you downloaded the .pdf
                                book, you can do a search for it in Acrobat.

                                Regards,
                                Liska

                                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Leanne Thompson
                                <le_anne_thompson@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar? I use HU-OM or
                                other sanskrit words.
                                >  
                                > BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found EK OM KAR. I
                                think it was a mantra or something like  that. Has anyone heard of that?
                                >  
                                > Thanks
                                > Leanne
                                >
                              • prometheus_973
                                Hello Liska and All, It s interesting that Ford said, They all work and can enable the individual to hear the remarkable and awe-inspiring sounds of the INNER
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 7, 2008
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                                  Hello Liska and All,
                                  It's interesting that Ford said,
                                  "They all work and can enable
                                  the individual to hear the remarkable
                                  and awe-inspiring sounds of the INNER
                                  WORLDS. Ascribing greater MAGIC to
                                  one sound or mantra over another is
                                  much like arguing whose God is greatest."
                                  [MY CAPS]

                                  So, is Ford saying that these are Magical
                                  sounds/mantras that have "intrinsic validity."
                                  Isn't that a contradiction of terms? Or, is
                                  he saying that most people see these as
                                  magical words/sounds, but that these
                                  have "intrinsic validity" in Shabd Yoga?
                                  However, does Shabd Yoga have validity?
                                  How much or with what? BTW- I wonder
                                  which planes or "inner worlds" Ford was
                                  referring to?

                                  IMO it does seem that there is something
                                  different with the vibratory rate of this
                                  sound/mantra (HU) that makes it more
                                  unique than the other (AUM), or Not!
                                  Perhaps there are Universal sounds/mantras,
                                  as well as, more specific ones that match
                                  or enhance each person's/Soul's vibratory
                                  rate of consciousness. And, this is why one
                                  sound works better for one person than with
                                  another person.

                                  The other quote you gave by Ford was:

                                  "The Validity of Spiritual Exercises.

                                  The basic spiritual exercise of Eck, which Paul
                                  called "the easy way," is also the basic exercise
                                  of the Shabd Yoga tradition, and, as such, carries
                                  with it the INTRINSIC VALIDITY of this practice
                                  in the Yoga tradition. In these teachings, the
                                  HU is sung "Hooooooo," where as in Eckankar,
                                  it is sung "Huuuuuuu" or "hugh." [MY CAPS]

                                  Personally, I often have trouble accepting any
                                  promises and beliefs from any religion as valid
                                  and, especially, from those religions that have
                                  "Living Masters" who have set themselves up as
                                  Masters/Godmen/Saviours/Prophets.

                                  It is interesting about the HU being sung as
                                  "Hooooooo" (who) and "Huuuuuuu" (hue/hugh).

                                  I knew ECKists who would sing HU as "Hooooooo"
                                  (who)! It was very strange and they sang loud!!!
                                  I never did ask them why they did this, but they
                                  believed they were part of Harry's inner (Inner)
                                  Circle and were more special than most of his
                                  RESAs. They had a small following at the major
                                  EK Seminars and were very aloof towards the
                                  RESA structure and toward rules and guidelines
                                  in general. They usually ignored these or acted
                                  As If they had no knowledge of these ESC approved
                                  procedures. Delusion runs rampant in ECKankar!

                                  Prometheus



                                  Liska wrote:
                                  Hi Leanne, I think Ford's statements about
                                  Hu and Aum might be valid here.

                                  In Confessions of a God Seeker by Ford Johnson,
                                  he says...

                                  "I would venture that God has no preference
                                  and also that all sounds and words are part
                                  of ALL THAT IS, and serve equally well in
                                  garnering God's attention."

                                  and...

                                  "The important point is that all sounds or
                                  mantras can enable the individual to transcend
                                  the physical dimension and experience the
                                  ecstatic states and the inner planes... They
                                  all work and can enable the individual to hear
                                  the remarkable and awe-inspiring sounds
                                  of the inner worlds. Ascribing greater magic
                                  to one sound or mantra over another is much
                                  like arguing whose God is greatest. It is a
                                  meaningless debate for everything is part of
                                  the ONE. Further, when the practitioner has
                                  had some experience with these mantras and
                                  the inner experiences that follow, she will
                                  come to the realization that these are not
                                  outside sounds; they are a part of her."

                                  and...

                                  "The Validity of Spiritual Exercises. The basic
                                  spiritual exercise of Eck, which Paul called
                                  "the easy way," is also the basic exercise of
                                  the Shabd Yoga tradition, and, as such, carries
                                  with it the INTRINSIC VALIDITY of this practice
                                  in the Yoga tradition. In these teachings, the
                                  HU is sung "Hooooooo," where as in Eckankar,
                                  it is sung "Huuuuuuuu" or "hugh" — Paul's
                                  effort to make it unique. The difference is of
                                  no real significance. Each sound will work and
                                  should be continued if it works for you."

                                  ME: [My Caps]

                                  As to Ek Onkar; it is a Sikh term that means
                                  "God is One." Julian Johnson's Path of the Masters
                                  mentions it. If you downloaded the .pdf
                                  book, you can do a search for it in Acrobat.

                                  Regards,
                                  Liska


                                  Leanne wrote:

                                  Does anyone still HU now that they left eckankar?
                                  I use HU-OM or other sanskrit words.

                                  BTW in a book of meditation by yogi bhajan I found
                                  EK OM KAR. I think it was a mantra or something like
                                  that. Has anyone heard of that?

                                  Thanks
                                  Leanne
                                  >
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