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Re: Klemp Is Still Wearing A Bullet Proof Vest!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I forgot to ask if Klemp still has his minions checking bags for the EK Temple and ESC tours? Does one get off the bus and still have their Bags
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 31, 2008
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      Hello All,
      I forgot to ask if Klemp still has his minions
      checking bags for the EK Temple and ESC
      tours? Does one get off the bus and still
      have their Bags Searched and Checked?

      I actually thought that the Metal Detectors
      at the main hall on Sat. night and searches
      at the EK Temple in Oct. 2001 were strange
      for ECKists to be put through. It seemed to
      be a knee-jerk reaction to fear. However,
      I, also, thought that it was only temporary!

      To see these policies continue after all these
      years really makes me wonder WHY?

      Is Klemp so paranoid and egotistical that he
      needs all of these precautions and defenses?
      Yes, it seems so!

      Really, why would someone want to assassinate
      Klemp? He's a loser! This just shows how
      mentally unstable Klemp really is! Yet, HK's
      nutty and paranoid Seminar behavior has
      now become "normal" operating procedure.
      Why don't ECKists ever question this? Or,
      are they afraid to? Sure they are! And who would
      be listening anyway? Probably someone who
      would, also, be writing their name on a list.

      But, are other EK speakers or performers given
      Bullet Proof Vests to wear? Are there Metal
      Detectors on Friday night or during the day?
      No! Of course not! It's all for old paranoid Klemp!

      Really, the proof is in the pudding! How can
      Klemp be what he claims when he is so fearful!
      Think about it! This is real undeniable proof!
      It is factual! It is real! Those Metal Detectors
      and the Searches at the Temple and ESC are
      proof of Klemp's fear! One might question
      whether HK has a Bullet Proof Vest on or has
      Armed Body Guards, but there's no rationalizing
      the other proof, or is there! Denial isn't just a
      river in Egypt! LOL!

      Prometheus


      prometheus wrote:

      Hello All,
      At Minneapolis EK Seminars, since 9/11/2001,
      ECKists have been required to go through metal
      detectors while Klemp wears a bullet proof vest
      and has armed body guards standing near him!

      Do ECKists find anything wrong with this picture?

      What would Jesus or Gandhi do? Would they have
      their followers searched before they were able to
      enter a hall to listen to their talk? Would Jesus or
      Gandhi be fearful of death and wear a bullet proof
      vest and have armed body guards ready to shoot
      and kill someone?

      And, isn't the LEM/Mahanta (Klemp) supposed to be
      so much "higher" and "greater" than Jesus or Gandhi!
      It seems the proof doesn't bear this out does it! Klemp
      is fearful and is losing his mind (via fear & ego) more
      and more each day. He's afraid to promote Joan to
      the 12th and afraid to anoint a new LEM!

      I've heard some comments about the 2008 EWWS,
      but I'm not all that interested in Klemp's nonsense.
      If I was all that interested in what he had to say
      I would have paid my $30 and taped the talk! But,
      why should I? It's all a bunch of crap anyway. Klemp
      never says anything that is new or interesting. HK's
      pep talks are dumbed down because Klemp's
      consciousness isn't above that of a 2nd initiate!

      Almost any H.I. could prepare and give a better
      talk than Klemp's! Just put a Klemp mask on
      someone and introduce him as the Mahanta the
      Living ECK Master and viola! If the person's voice
      doesn't sound quite like Klemp's then he could
      attribute this to a food allergy which was the
      result of taking on more Karma for his chelas!
      LOL!

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, Are the Metal Detectors (for HK s talk) and Searches and Checked Bags for the Temple and ESC Tours still necessary? Why? These security precautions
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 2, 2008
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        Hello All,
        Are the Metal Detectors (for HK's talk)
        and Searches and Checked Bags for the
        Temple and ESC Tours still necessary?
        Why?

        These security precautions were, originally,
        in response to the 9/11/2001 Terrorist
        Attacks. Why has Klemp continued this
        Fear Mongering search policy?

        Why is HK still wearing a Bullet Proof Vest
        and has Armed Body Guards when 9/11
        was a Terrorist Attack against this Country
        and Not against Klemp personally!

        Klemp's paranoia is proof that he's Not
        a Master! Do these security efforts make
        ECKists feel safer? Perhaps, especially
        during HK's talk. But, isn't the Mahanta
        supposed to "protect" chelas anyway and
        at all times? But, why can't the Mahanta
        "protect" himself? Even if HK was shot or
        blown up by Terrorists... wouldn't that be
        part of his Karmic Mission?

        Why then, is Klemp fearful of his own
        death? Talk is cheap isn't it! Klemp can't
        walk the walk!

        What are the chances of Terrorists attacking
        Klemp and Company? Really! What are the
        chances? I'll bet there's a greater chance of
        being struck by lightening or attacked by a
        shark!

        Once again, Why do ECKists Not See what
        is right in front of them? It seems to be the
        blind leading the blind when Chelas say
        nothing about those Metal Detectors or
        Searches. Don't think that Klemp knows
        nothing about these security precautions,
        after all, he's the Mahanta isn't he! Thus,
        if he didn't know he wouldn't be much of
        a Mahanta would he! Either way, Klemp is
        Not who or what he claims. It's so obvious!

        Prometheus


        Prometheus Wrote:

        I forgot to ask if Klemp still has his minions
        checking bags for the EK Temple and ESC
        tours? Does one get off the bus and still
        have their Bags Searched and Checked?

        I actually thought that the Metal Detectors
        at the main hall on Sat. night and searches
        at the EK Temple in Oct. 2001 were strange
        for ECKists to be put through. It seemed to
        be a knee-jerk reaction to fear. However,
        I, also, thought that it was only temporary!

        To see these policies continue after all these
        years really makes me wonder WHY?

        Is Klemp so paranoid and egotistical that he
        needs all of these precautions and defenses?
        Yes, it seems so!

        Really, why would someone want to assassinate
        Klemp? He's a loser! This just shows how
        mentally unstable Klemp really is! Yet, HK's
        nutty and paranoid Seminar behavior has
        now become "normal" operating procedure.
        Why don't ECKists ever question this? Or,
        are they afraid to? Sure they are! And who would
        be listening anyway? Probably someone who
        would, also, be writing their name on a list.

        But, are other EK speakers or performers given
        Bullet Proof Vests to wear? Are there Metal
        Detectors on Friday night or during the day?
        No! Of course not! It's all for old paranoid Klemp!

        Really, the proof is in the pudding! How can
        Klemp be what he claims when he is so fearful!
        Think about it! This is real undeniable proof!
        It is factual! It is real! Those Metal Detectors
        and the Searches at the Temple and ESC are
        proof of Klemp's fear! One might question
        whether HK has a Bullet Proof Vest on or has
        Armed Body Guards, but there's no rationalizing
        the other proof, or is there! Denial isn't just a
        river in Egypt! LOL!

        Prometheus


        prometheus wrote:

        Hello All,
        At Minneapolis EK Seminars, since 9/11/2001,
        ECKists have been required to go through metal
        detectors while Klemp wears a bullet proof vest
        and has armed body guards standing near him!

        Do ECKists find anything wrong with this picture?

        What would Jesus or Gandhi do? Would they have
        their followers searched before they were able to
        enter a hall to listen to their talk? Would Jesus or
        Gandhi be fearful of death and wear a bullet proof
        vest and have armed body guards ready to shoot
        and kill someone?

        And, isn't the LEM/Mahanta (Klemp) supposed to be
        so much "higher" and "greater" than Jesus or Gandhi!
        It seems the proof doesn't bear this out does it! Klemp
        is fearful and is losing his mind (via fear & ego) more
        and more each day. He's afraid to promote Joan to
        the 12th and afraid to anoint a new LEM!

        I've heard some comments about the 2008 EWWS,
        but I'm not all that interested in Klemp's nonsense.
        If I was all that interested in what he had to say
        I would have paid my $30 and taped the talk! But,
        why should I? It's all a bunch of crap anyway. Klemp
        never says anything that is new or interesting. HK's
        pep talks are dumbed down because Klemp's
        consciousness isn't above that of a 2nd initiate!

        Almost any H.I. could prepare and give a better
        talk than Klemp's! Just put a Klemp mask on
        someone and introduce him as the Mahanta the
        Living ECK Master and viola! If the person's voice
        doesn't sound quite like Klemp's then he could
        attribute this to a food allergy which was the
        result of taking on more Karma for his chelas!
        LOL!

        Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        I wonder what EK Seminar Newcomers thought about the Metal Detectors and the Searches for Klemp s Sat. evening talk? They were invited to hear Guru Klemp
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 4, 2008
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          I wonder what EK Seminar "Newcomers"
          thought about the Metal Detectors and
          the Searches for Klemp's Sat. evening talk?
          They were invited to hear Guru Klemp
          give his talk and then had to go through
          Metal Detectors and open their bags to
          be Searched!!! Wouldn't a "Man of God"
          place his trust in God?

          These Metal Detectors and Searches
          have been going on for years and yet
          nobody is permitted to complain! ECK
          Leaders know they have to keep silent
          about what they see. ECKists have to
          rationalize and turn a blind eye to it all
          in order to have ECKankar work for them
          like their former religions worked for them
          (or not) all of those years ago.

          Would 2nd or 4th Plane (of Consciousness)
          Gandhi or Jesus worry about Terrorists?
          Yet, 14th Plane (of Con) Klemp seems to
          be paranoid and fearful! Doesn't this make
          ECKists wonder why? How can this be!

          Why should ECK Vahanas do all of that
          work when Klemp's negative behaviour
          destroys it all! How disheartening and
          embarrassing!

          ECKists should ask themselves, Would
          it be okay to do a body and bag search
          of people before they attended a local
          ECK Worship Service?

          As much as most former ECKists dislike
          Klemp we would never do him harm.
          Even if I lived within driving range of
          Minneapolis I'd never go to an EK Seminar,
          the EK Temple, or to the ESC to shout and
          protest. The Internet is enough. But, Klemp's
          knee jerk reaction to Fear was due to 9/11
          and is not about a threat from former ECKists.

          Klemp has gotten more and more paranoid,
          delusional, and mean spirited over the years.
          Really, are Terrorists going to target Klemp?
          Hmmmm, maybe a narcissist would think so!

          BTW- Since Klemp claims to be a "Modern
          Prophet" why didn't he foresee 9/11/2001?
          Psychics can make generalized predictions.

          Thus, why should ECKists continue to work
          for Klemp when he behaves like a fearful moron!
          What kind of a spiritual leader is Klemp when
          he's so paranoid? It's obvious that HK is just
          acting in a role he inherited from Gross, and
          that he can't get beyond his long-term mentally
          unstable nature!

          This is a Wake-UP Call for ECKists! Metal
          Detectors Do Not Equate to Higher Consciousness!

          Prometheus


          Prometheus Wrote:

          Are the Metal Detectors (for HK's talk)
          and Searches and Checked Bags for the
          Temple and ESC Tours still necessary?
          Why?

          These security precautions were, originally,
          in response to the 9/11/2001 Terrorist
          Attacks. Why has Klemp continued this
          Fear Mongering search policy?

          Why is HK still wearing a Bullet Proof Vest
          and has Armed Body Guards when 9/11
          was a Terrorist Attack against this Country
          and Not against Klemp personally!

          Klemp's paranoia is proof that he's Not
          a Master! Do these security efforts make
          ECKists feel safer? Perhaps, especially
          during HK's talk. But, isn't the Mahanta
          supposed to "protect" chelas anyway and
          at all times? But, why can't the Mahanta
          "protect" himself? Even if HK was shot or
          blown up by Terrorists... wouldn't that be
          part of his Karmic Mission?

          Why then, is Klemp fearful of his own
          death? Talk is cheap isn't it! Klemp can't
          walk the walk!

          What are the chances of Terrorists attacking
          Klemp and Company? Really! What are the
          chances? I'll bet there's a greater chance of
          being struck by lightening or attacked by a
          shark!

          Once again, Why do ECKists Not See what
          is right in front of them? It seems to be the
          blind leading the blind when Chelas say
          nothing about those Metal Detectors or
          Searches. Don't think that Klemp knows
          nothing about these security precautions,
          after all, he's the Mahanta isn't he! Thus,
          if he didn't know he wouldn't be much of
          a Mahanta would he! Either way, Klemp is
          Not who or what he claims. It's so obvious!

          Prometheus


          Prometheus Wrote:

          I forgot to ask if Klemp still has his minions
          checking bags for the EK Temple and ESC
          tours? Does one get off the bus and still
          have their Bags Searched and Checked?

          I actually thought that the Metal Detectors
          at the main hall on Sat. night and searches
          at the EK Temple in Oct. 2001 were strange
          for ECKists to be put through. It seemed to
          be a knee-jerk reaction to fear. However,
          I, also, thought that it was only temporary!

          To see these policies continue after all these
          years really makes me wonder WHY?

          Is Klemp so paranoid and egotistical that he
          needs all of these precautions and defenses?
          Yes, it seems so!

          Really, why would someone want to assassinate
          Klemp? He's a loser! This just shows how
          mentally unstable Klemp really is! Yet, HK's
          nutty and paranoid Seminar behavior has
          now become "normal" operating procedure.
          Why don't ECKists ever question this? Or,
          are they afraid to? Sure they are! And who would
          be listening anyway? Probably someone who
          would, also, be writing their name on a list.

          But, are other EK speakers or performers given
          Bullet Proof Vests to wear? Are there Metal
          Detectors on Friday night or during the day?
          No! Of course not! It's all for old paranoid Klemp!

          Really, the proof is in the pudding! How can
          Klemp be what he claims when he is so fearful!
          Think about it! This is real undeniable proof!
          It is factual! It is real! Those Metal Detectors
          and the Searches at the Temple and ESC are
          proof of Klemp's fear! One might question
          whether HK has a Bullet Proof Vest on or has
          Armed Body Guards, but there's no rationalizing
          the other proof, or is there! Denial isn't just a
          river in Egypt! LOL!

          Prometheus


          prometheus wrote:

          Hello All,
          At Minneapolis EK Seminars, since 9/11/2001,
          ECKists have been required to go through metal
          detectors while Klemp wears a bullet proof vest
          and has armed body guards standing near him!

          Do ECKists find anything wrong with this picture?

          What would Jesus or Gandhi do? Would they have
          their followers searched before they were able to
          enter a hall to listen to their talk? Would Jesus or
          Gandhi be fearful of death and wear a bullet proof
          vest and have armed body guards ready to shoot
          and kill someone?

          And, isn't the LEM/Mahanta (Klemp) supposed to be
          so much "higher" and "greater" than Jesus or Gandhi!
          It seems the proof doesn't bear this out does it! Klemp
          is fearful and is losing his mind (via fear & ego) more
          and more each day. He's afraid to promote Joan to
          the 12th and afraid to anoint a new LEM!

          I've heard some comments about the 2008 EWWS,
          but I'm not all that interested in Klemp's nonsense.
          If I was all that interested in what he had to say
          I would have paid my $30 and taped the talk! But,
          why should I? It's all a bunch of crap anyway. Klemp
          never says anything that is new or interesting. HK's
          pep talks are dumbed down because Klemp's
          consciousness isn't above that of a 2nd initiate!

          Almost any H.I. could prepare and give a better
          talk than Klemp's! Just put a Klemp mask on
          someone and introduce him as the Mahanta the
          Living ECK Master and viola! If the person's voice
          doesn't sound quite like Klemp's then he could
          attribute this to a food allergy which was the
          result of taking on more Karma for his chelas!
          LOL!

          Prometheus
        • drubezarne
          Prometheus, maybe somebody out there knows the story about the metal detectors. I thought they started using them when some crazed woman started running down
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 4, 2008
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            Prometheus, maybe somebody out there knows the story about the metal
            detectors. I thought they started using them when some crazed woman
            started running down the aisle toward Klemp shouting "Master, Master...!"

            The Shariyat states that H.I.'s are supposed to be willing to lay down
            their own lives for the Master. If that's true, then Klemp doesn't
            need metal detectors because any H.I. will take a bullet for him.
            Somebody should remind him of that Shariyat passage. Any ESC staff
            listening?

            By the way, what happened to Twitchell's repeated claims that all
            H.I.'s can communicate with each other through the inner channels? So,
            here we have another Eckankar myth because if this was true, Klemp
            could just send messages to all the H.I.'s. He wouldn't need to ask
            eckists to spy on each other (refer to his fox in the henhouse
            article) and he could protect himself at seminars by sending out a
            "Help Me!" command on the inner.

            So, Harold, why spend all that money for security and make eckists
            wait in long lines going through metal detectors? Just reserve all the
            front row seats for H.I.'s. Then, if there's an emergency, you give
            the command on the inner for every H.I. to save you while you hightail
            it out of there.

            Regards
            Liska

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > I wonder what EK Seminar "Newcomers"
            > thought about the Metal Detectors and
            > the Searches for Klemp's Sat. evening talk?
            > They were invited to hear Guru Klemp
            > give his talk and then had to go through
            > Metal Detectors and open their bags to
            > be Searched!!! Wouldn't a "Man of God"
            > place his trust in God?
            >
            > These Metal Detectors and Searches
            > have been going on for years and yet
            > nobody is permitted to complain! ECK
            > Leaders know they have to keep silent
            > about what they see. ECKists have to
            > rationalize and turn a blind eye to it all
            > in order to have ECKankar work for them
            > like their former religions worked for them
            > (or not) all of those years ago.
            >
            > Would 2nd or 4th Plane (of Consciousness)
            > Gandhi or Jesus worry about Terrorists?
            > Yet, 14th Plane (of Con) Klemp seems to
            > be paranoid and fearful! Doesn't this make
            > ECKists wonder why? How can this be!
            >
            > Why should ECK Vahanas do all of that
            > work when Klemp's negative behaviour
            > destroys it all! How disheartening and
            > embarrassing!
            >
            > ECKists should ask themselves, Would
            > it be okay to do a body and bag search
            > of people before they attended a local
            > ECK Worship Service?
            >
            > As much as most former ECKists dislike
            > Klemp we would never do him harm.
            > Even if I lived within driving range of
            > Minneapolis I'd never go to an EK Seminar,
            > the EK Temple, or to the ESC to shout and
            > protest. The Internet is enough. But, Klemp's
            > knee jerk reaction to Fear was due to 9/11
            > and is not about a threat from former ECKists.
            >
            > Klemp has gotten more and more paranoid,
            > delusional, and mean spirited over the years.
            > Really, are Terrorists going to target Klemp?
            > Hmmmm, maybe a narcissist would think so!
            >
            > BTW- Since Klemp claims to be a "Modern
            > Prophet" why didn't he foresee 9/11/2001?
            > Psychics can make generalized predictions.
            >
            > Thus, why should ECKists continue to work
            > for Klemp when he behaves like a fearful moron!
            > What kind of a spiritual leader is Klemp when
            > he's so paranoid? It's obvious that HK is just
            > acting in a role he inherited from Gross, and
            > that he can't get beyond his long-term mentally
            > unstable nature!
            >
            > This is a Wake-UP Call for ECKists! Metal
            > Detectors Do Not Equate to Higher Consciousness!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > Prometheus Wrote:
            >
            > Are the Metal Detectors (for HK's talk)
            > and Searches and Checked Bags for the
            > Temple and ESC Tours still necessary?
            > Why?
            >
            > These security precautions were, originally,
            > in response to the 9/11/2001 Terrorist
            > Attacks. Why has Klemp continued this
            > Fear Mongering search policy?
            >
            > Why is HK still wearing a Bullet Proof Vest
            > and has Armed Body Guards when 9/11
            > was a Terrorist Attack against this Country
            > and Not against Klemp personally!
            >
            > Klemp's paranoia is proof that he's Not
            > a Master! Do these security efforts make
            > ECKists feel safer? Perhaps, especially
            > during HK's talk. But, isn't the Mahanta
            > supposed to "protect" chelas anyway and
            > at all times? But, why can't the Mahanta
            > "protect" himself? Even if HK was shot or
            > blown up by Terrorists... wouldn't that be
            > part of his Karmic Mission?
            >
            > Why then, is Klemp fearful of his own
            > death? Talk is cheap isn't it! Klemp can't
            > walk the walk!
            >
            > What are the chances of Terrorists attacking
            > Klemp and Company? Really! What are the
            > chances? I'll bet there's a greater chance of
            > being struck by lightening or attacked by a
            > shark!
            >
            > Once again, Why do ECKists Not See what
            > is right in front of them? It seems to be the
            > blind leading the blind when Chelas say
            > nothing about those Metal Detectors or
            > Searches. Don't think that Klemp knows
            > nothing about these security precautions,
            > after all, he's the Mahanta isn't he! Thus,
            > if he didn't know he wouldn't be much of
            > a Mahanta would he! Either way, Klemp is
            > Not who or what he claims. It's so obvious!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > Prometheus Wrote:
            >
            > I forgot to ask if Klemp still has his minions
            > checking bags for the EK Temple and ESC
            > tours? Does one get off the bus and still
            > have their Bags Searched and Checked?
            >
            > I actually thought that the Metal Detectors
            > at the main hall on Sat. night and searches
            > at the EK Temple in Oct. 2001 were strange
            > for ECKists to be put through. It seemed to
            > be a knee-jerk reaction to fear. However,
            > I, also, thought that it was only temporary!
            >
            > To see these policies continue after all these
            > years really makes me wonder WHY?
            >
            > Is Klemp so paranoid and egotistical that he
            > needs all of these precautions and defenses?
            > Yes, it seems so!
            >
            > Really, why would someone want to assassinate
            > Klemp? He's a loser! This just shows how
            > mentally unstable Klemp really is! Yet, HK's
            > nutty and paranoid Seminar behavior has
            > now become "normal" operating procedure.
            > Why don't ECKists ever question this? Or,
            > are they afraid to? Sure they are! And who would
            > be listening anyway? Probably someone who
            > would, also, be writing their name on a list.
            >
            > But, are other EK speakers or performers given
            > Bullet Proof Vests to wear? Are there Metal
            > Detectors on Friday night or during the day?
            > No! Of course not! It's all for old paranoid Klemp!
            >
            > Really, the proof is in the pudding! How can
            > Klemp be what he claims when he is so fearful!
            > Think about it! This is real undeniable proof!
            > It is factual! It is real! Those Metal Detectors
            > and the Searches at the Temple and ESC are
            > proof of Klemp's fear! One might question
            > whether HK has a Bullet Proof Vest on or has
            > Armed Body Guards, but there's no rationalizing
            > the other proof, or is there! Denial isn't just a
            > river in Egypt! LOL!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > At Minneapolis EK Seminars, since 9/11/2001,
            > ECKists have been required to go through metal
            > detectors while Klemp wears a bullet proof vest
            > and has armed body guards standing near him!
            >
            > Do ECKists find anything wrong with this picture?
            >
            > What would Jesus or Gandhi do? Would they have
            > their followers searched before they were able to
            > enter a hall to listen to their talk? Would Jesus or
            > Gandhi be fearful of death and wear a bullet proof
            > vest and have armed body guards ready to shoot
            > and kill someone?
            >
            > And, isn't the LEM/Mahanta (Klemp) supposed to be
            > so much "higher" and "greater" than Jesus or Gandhi!
            > It seems the proof doesn't bear this out does it! Klemp
            > is fearful and is losing his mind (via fear & ego) more
            > and more each day. He's afraid to promote Joan to
            > the 12th and afraid to anoint a new LEM!
            >
            > I've heard some comments about the 2008 EWWS,
            > but I'm not all that interested in Klemp's nonsense.
            > If I was all that interested in what he had to say
            > I would have paid my $30 and taped the talk! But,
            > why should I? It's all a bunch of crap anyway. Klemp
            > never says anything that is new or interesting. HK's
            > pep talks are dumbed down because Klemp's
            > consciousness isn't above that of a 2nd initiate!
            >
            > Almost any H.I. could prepare and give a better
            > talk than Klemp's! Just put a Klemp mask on
            > someone and introduce him as the Mahanta the
            > Living ECK Master and viola! If the person's voice
            > doesn't sound quite like Klemp's then he could
            > attribute this to a food allergy which was the
            > result of taking on more Karma for his chelas!
            > LOL!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Liska and All, I do know the story about the Metal Detectors and it was due to 9/11/2001. It started that October and continues today! BTW-I was there
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 4, 2008
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              Hello Liska and All,
              I do know the story about the Metal Detectors
              and it was due to 9/11/2001. It started that
              October and continues today!

              BTW-I was there and helped to take that one
              person, who went whacky, out to the hallway.
              And, there were no Metal Detectors after this
              or other incidents. It was all due to the Terrorist
              attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. And, there are enough
              security personnel, everywhere, that Klemp should
              have no fear from anyone. Believe me, I've seen
              the security layers and it's more than you might
              imagine. Behind the scenes it's very professional.

              Besides, if Klemp was who he claimed he would
              have the ability to make himself invisible, or
              would see the danger in advance and avoid it.
              HK is a Modern Prophet... right?

              The Metal Detectors are just another sign of
              Klemp's paranoia and unstable mental health.
              Shouldn't all ECK Chelas attending HK's talk
              be wearing Bullet Proof Vests just in case?
              Why Not? Shouldn't chelas be afraid of losing
              their life like Klemp is afraid of losing his?

              Also, most of the front row seats are always
              reserved for a certain select group of H.I.s.
              Bob Lawton's people tend to get good front
              row seats, as well as, ESC H.I. staffers or
              special out-of-town guests.

              Prometheus


              Liska Wrote:
              Prometheus, maybe somebody out there
              knows the story about the metal detectors.
              I thought they started using them when some
              crazed woman started running down the aisle
              toward Klemp shouting "Master, Master...!"

              The Shariyat states that H.I.'s are supposed
              to be willing to lay down their own lives for
              the Master. If that's true, then Klemp doesn't
              need metal detectors because any H.I. will
              take a bullet for him. Somebody should remind
              him of that Shariyat passage. Any ESC staff
              listening?

              By the way, what happened to Twitchell's
              repeated claims that all H.I.'s can communicate
              with each other through the inner channels?
              So, here we have another Eckankar myth because
              if this was true, Klemp could just send messages
              to all the H.I.'s. He wouldn't need to ask eckists
              to spy on each other (refer to his fox in the henhouse
              article) and he could protect himself at seminars
              by sending out a "Help Me!" command on the inner.

              So, Harold, why spend all that money for security
              and make eckists wait in long lines going through
              metal detectors? Just reserve all the front row seats
              for H.I.'s. Then, if there's an emergency, you give
              the command on the inner for every H.I. to save
              you while you hightail it out of there.

              Regards
              Liska

              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > I wonder what EK Seminar "Newcomers"
              > thought about the Metal Detectors and
              > the Searches for Klemp's Sat. evening talk?
              > They were invited to hear Guru Klemp
              > give his talk and then had to go through
              > Metal Detectors and open their bags to
              > be Searched!!! Wouldn't a "Man of God"
              > place his trust in God?
              >
              > These Metal Detectors and Searches
              > have been going on for years and yet
              > nobody is permitted to complain! ECK
              > Leaders know they have to keep silent
              > about what they see. ECKists have to
              > rationalize and turn a blind eye to it all
              > in order to have ECKankar work for them
              > like their former religions worked for them
              > (or not) all of those years ago.
              >
              > Would 2nd or 4th Plane (of Consciousness)
              > Gandhi or Jesus worry about Terrorists?
              > Yet, 14th Plane (of Con) Klemp seems to
              > be paranoid and fearful! Doesn't this make
              > ECKists wonder why? How can this be!
              >
              > Why should ECK Vahanas do all of that
              > work when Klemp's negative behaviour
              > destroys it all! How disheartening and
              > embarrassing!
              >
              > ECKists should ask themselves, Would
              > it be okay to do a body and bag search
              > of people before they attended a local
              > ECK Worship Service?
              >
              > As much as most former ECKists dislike
              > Klemp we would never do him harm.
              > Even if I lived within driving range of
              > Minneapolis I'd never go to an EK Seminar,
              > the EK Temple, or to the ESC to shout and
              > protest. The Internet is enough. But, Klemp's
              > knee jerk reaction to Fear was due to 9/11
              > and is not about a threat from former ECKists.
              >
              > Klemp has gotten more and more paranoid,
              > delusional, and mean spirited over the years.
              > Really, are Terrorists going to target Klemp?
              > Hmmmm, maybe a narcissist would think so!
              >
              > BTW- Since Klemp claims to be a "Modern
              > Prophet" why didn't he foresee 9/11/2001?
              > Psychics can make generalized predictions.
              >
              > Thus, why should ECKists continue to work
              > for Klemp when he behaves like a fearful moron!
              > What kind of a spiritual leader is Klemp when
              > he's so paranoid? It's obvious that HK is just
              > acting in a role he inherited from Gross, and
              > that he can't get beyond his long-term mentally
              > unstable nature!
              >
              > This is a Wake-UP Call for ECKists! Metal
              > Detectors Do Not Equate to Higher Consciousness!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > Prometheus Wrote:
              >
              > Are the Metal Detectors (for HK's talk)
              > and Searches and Checked Bags for the
              > Temple and ESC Tours still necessary?
              > Why?
              >
              > These security precautions were, originally,
              > in response to the 9/11/2001 Terrorist
              > Attacks. Why has Klemp continued this
              > Fear Mongering search policy?
              >
              > Why is HK still wearing a Bullet Proof Vest
              > and has Armed Body Guards when 9/11
              > was a Terrorist Attack against this Country
              > and Not against Klemp personally!
              >
              > Klemp's paranoia is proof that he's Not
              > a Master! Do these security efforts make
              > ECKists feel safer? Perhaps, especially
              > during HK's talk. But, isn't the Mahanta
              > supposed to "protect" chelas anyway and
              > at all times? But, why can't the Mahanta
              > "protect" himself? Even if HK was shot or
              > blown up by Terrorists... wouldn't that be
              > part of his Karmic Mission?
              >
              > Why then, is Klemp fearful of his own
              > death? Talk is cheap isn't it! Klemp can't
              > walk the walk!
              >
              > What are the chances of Terrorists attacking
              > Klemp and Company? Really! What are the
              > chances? I'll bet there's a greater chance of
              > being struck by lightening or attacked by a
              > shark!
              >
              > Once again, Why do ECKists Not See what
              > is right in front of them? It seems to be the
              > blind leading the blind when Chelas say
              > nothing about those Metal Detectors or
              > Searches. Don't think that Klemp knows
              > nothing about these security precautions,
              > after all, he's the Mahanta isn't he! Thus,
              > if he didn't know he wouldn't be much of
              > a Mahanta would he! Either way, Klemp is
              > Not who or what he claims. It's so obvious!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > Prometheus Wrote:
              >
              > I forgot to ask if Klemp still has his minions
              > checking bags for the EK Temple and ESC
              > tours? Does one get off the bus and still
              > have their Bags Searched and Checked?
              >
              > I actually thought that the Metal Detectors
              > at the main hall on Sat. night and searches
              > at the EK Temple in Oct. 2001 were strange
              > for ECKists to be put through. It seemed to
              > be a knee-jerk reaction to fear. However,
              > I, also, thought that it was only temporary!
              >
              > To see these policies continue after all these
              > years really makes me wonder WHY?
              >
              > Is Klemp so paranoid and egotistical that he
              > needs all of these precautions and defenses?
              > Yes, it seems so!
              >
              > Really, why would someone want to assassinate
              > Klemp? He's a loser! This just shows how
              > mentally unstable Klemp really is! Yet, HK's
              > nutty and paranoid Seminar behavior has
              > now become "normal" operating procedure.
              > Why don't ECKists ever question this? Or,
              > are they afraid to? Sure they are! And who would
              > be listening anyway? Probably someone who
              > would, also, be writing their name on a list.
              >
              > But, are other EK speakers or performers given
              > Bullet Proof Vests to wear? Are there Metal
              > Detectors on Friday night or during the day?
              > No! Of course not! It's all for old paranoid Klemp!
              >
              > Really, the proof is in the pudding! How can
              > Klemp be what he claims when he is so fearful!
              > Think about it! This is real undeniable proof!
              > It is factual! It is real! Those Metal Detectors
              > and the Searches at the Temple and ESC are
              > proof of Klemp's fear! One might question
              > whether HK has a Bullet Proof Vest on or has
              > Armed Body Guards, but there's no rationalizing
              > the other proof, or is there! Denial isn't just a
              > river in Egypt! LOL!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > At Minneapolis EK Seminars, since 9/11/2001,
              > ECKists have been required to go through metal
              > detectors while Klemp wears a bullet proof vest
              > and has armed body guards standing near him!
              >
              > Do ECKists find anything wrong with this picture?
              >
              > What would Jesus or Gandhi do? Would they have
              > their followers searched before they were able to
              > enter a hall to listen to their talk? Would Jesus or
              > Gandhi be fearful of death and wear a bullet proof
              > vest and have armed body guards ready to shoot
              > and kill someone?
              >
              > And, isn't the LEM/Mahanta (Klemp) supposed to be
              > so much "higher" and "greater" than Jesus or Gandhi!
              > It seems the proof doesn't bear this out does it! Klemp
              > is fearful and is losing his mind (via fear & ego) more
              > and more each day. He's afraid to promote Joan to
              > the 12th and afraid to anoint a new LEM!
              >
              > I've heard some comments about the 2008 EWWS,
              > but I'm not all that interested in Klemp's nonsense.
              > If I was all that interested in what he had to say
              > I would have paid my $30 and taped the talk! But,
              > why should I? It's all a bunch of crap anyway. Klemp
              > never says anything that is new or interesting. HK's
              > pep talks are dumbed down because Klemp's
              > consciousness isn't above that of a 2nd initiate!
              >
              > Almost any H.I. could prepare and give a better
              > talk than Klemp's! Just put a Klemp mask on
              > someone and introduce him as the Mahanta the
              > Living ECK Master and viola! If the person's voice
              > doesn't sound quite like Klemp's then he could
              > attribute this to a food allergy which was the
              > result of taking on more Karma for his chelas!
              > LOL!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
            • drubezarne
              Prometheus, you said, BTW-I was there and helped to take that one person, who went whacky, out to the hallway. Can you tell us the story about that person?
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 6, 2008
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                Prometheus, you said, "BTW-I was there and helped to take that one
                person, who went whacky, out to the hallway."

                Can you tell us the story about that person? What was HK's reaction?

                Liska

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Liska and All,
                > I do know the story about the Metal Detectors
                > and it was due to 9/11/2001. It started that
                > October and continues today!
                >
                > BTW-I was there and helped to take that one
                > person, who went whacky, out to the hallway.
                > And, there were no Metal Detectors after this
                > or other incidents. It was all due to the Terrorist
                > attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. And, there are enough
                > security personnel, everywhere, that Klemp should
                > have no fear from anyone. Believe me, I've seen
                > the security layers and it's more than you might
                > imagine. Behind the scenes it's very professional.
                >
                > Besides, if Klemp was who he claimed he would
                > have the ability to make himself invisible, or
                > would see the danger in advance and avoid it.
                > HK is a Modern Prophet... right?
                >
                > The Metal Detectors are just another sign of
                > Klemp's paranoia and unstable mental health.
                > Shouldn't all ECK Chelas attending HK's talk
                > be wearing Bullet Proof Vests just in case?
                > Why Not? Shouldn't chelas be afraid of losing
                > their life like Klemp is afraid of losing his?
                >
                > Also, most of the front row seats are always
                > reserved for a certain select group of H.I.s.
                > Bob Lawton's people tend to get good front
                > row seats, as well as, ESC H.I. staffers or
                > special out-of-town guests.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > Liska Wrote:
                > Prometheus, maybe somebody out there
                > knows the story about the metal detectors.
                > I thought they started using them when some
                > crazed woman started running down the aisle
                > toward Klemp shouting "Master, Master...!"
                >
                > The Shariyat states that H.I.'s are supposed
                > to be willing to lay down their own lives for
                > the Master. If that's true, then Klemp doesn't
                > need metal detectors because any H.I. will
                > take a bullet for him. Somebody should remind
                > him of that Shariyat passage. Any ESC staff
                > listening?
                >
                > By the way, what happened to Twitchell's
                > repeated claims that all H.I.'s can communicate
                > with each other through the inner channels?
                > So, here we have another Eckankar myth because
                > if this was true, Klemp could just send messages
                > to all the H.I.'s. He wouldn't need to ask eckists
                > to spy on each other (refer to his fox in the henhouse
                > article) and he could protect himself at seminars
                > by sending out a "Help Me!" command on the inner.
                >
                > So, Harold, why spend all that money for security
                > and make eckists wait in long lines going through
                > metal detectors? Just reserve all the front row seats
                > for H.I.'s. Then, if there's an emergency, you give
                > the command on the inner for every H.I. to save
                > you while you hightail it out of there.
                >
                > Regards
                > Liska
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > I wonder what EK Seminar "Newcomers"
                > > thought about the Metal Detectors and
                > > the Searches for Klemp's Sat. evening talk?
                > > They were invited to hear Guru Klemp
                > > give his talk and then had to go through
                > > Metal Detectors and open their bags to
                > > be Searched!!! Wouldn't a "Man of God"
                > > place his trust in God?
                > >
                > > These Metal Detectors and Searches
                > > have been going on for years and yet
                > > nobody is permitted to complain! ECK
                > > Leaders know they have to keep silent
                > > about what they see. ECKists have to
                > > rationalize and turn a blind eye to it all
                > > in order to have ECKankar work for them
                > > like their former religions worked for them
                > > (or not) all of those years ago.
                > >
                > > Would 2nd or 4th Plane (of Consciousness)
                > > Gandhi or Jesus worry about Terrorists?
                > > Yet, 14th Plane (of Con) Klemp seems to
                > > be paranoid and fearful! Doesn't this make
                > > ECKists wonder why? How can this be!
                > >
                > > Why should ECK Vahanas do all of that
                > > work when Klemp's negative behaviour
                > > destroys it all! How disheartening and
                > > embarrassing!
                > >
                > > ECKists should ask themselves, Would
                > > it be okay to do a body and bag search
                > > of people before they attended a local
                > > ECK Worship Service?
                > >
                > > As much as most former ECKists dislike
                > > Klemp we would never do him harm.
                > > Even if I lived within driving range of
                > > Minneapolis I'd never go to an EK Seminar,
                > > the EK Temple, or to the ESC to shout and
                > > protest. The Internet is enough. But, Klemp's
                > > knee jerk reaction to Fear was due to 9/11
                > > and is not about a threat from former ECKists.
                > >
                > > Klemp has gotten more and more paranoid,
                > > delusional, and mean spirited over the years.
                > > Really, are Terrorists going to target Klemp?
                > > Hmmmm, maybe a narcissist would think so!
                > >
                > > BTW- Since Klemp claims to be a "Modern
                > > Prophet" why didn't he foresee 9/11/2001?
                > > Psychics can make generalized predictions.
                > >
                > > Thus, why should ECKists continue to work
                > > for Klemp when he behaves like a fearful moron!
                > > What kind of a spiritual leader is Klemp when
                > > he's so paranoid? It's obvious that HK is just
                > > acting in a role he inherited from Gross, and
                > > that he can't get beyond his long-term mentally
                > > unstable nature!
                > >
                > > This is a Wake-UP Call for ECKists! Metal
                > > Detectors Do Not Equate to Higher Consciousness!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > > Prometheus Wrote:
                > >
                > > Are the Metal Detectors (for HK's talk)
                > > and Searches and Checked Bags for the
                > > Temple and ESC Tours still necessary?
                > > Why?
                > >
                > > These security precautions were, originally,
                > > in response to the 9/11/2001 Terrorist
                > > Attacks. Why has Klemp continued this
                > > Fear Mongering search policy?
                > >
                > > Why is HK still wearing a Bullet Proof Vest
                > > and has Armed Body Guards when 9/11
                > > was a Terrorist Attack against this Country
                > > and Not against Klemp personally!
                > >
                > > Klemp's paranoia is proof that he's Not
                > > a Master! Do these security efforts make
                > > ECKists feel safer? Perhaps, especially
                > > during HK's talk. But, isn't the Mahanta
                > > supposed to "protect" chelas anyway and
                > > at all times? But, why can't the Mahanta
                > > "protect" himself? Even if HK was shot or
                > > blown up by Terrorists... wouldn't that be
                > > part of his Karmic Mission?
                > >
                > > Why then, is Klemp fearful of his own
                > > death? Talk is cheap isn't it! Klemp can't
                > > walk the walk!
                > >
                > > What are the chances of Terrorists attacking
                > > Klemp and Company? Really! What are the
                > > chances? I'll bet there's a greater chance of
                > > being struck by lightening or attacked by a
                > > shark!
                > >
                > > Once again, Why do ECKists Not See what
                > > is right in front of them? It seems to be the
                > > blind leading the blind when Chelas say
                > > nothing about those Metal Detectors or
                > > Searches. Don't think that Klemp knows
                > > nothing about these security precautions,
                > > after all, he's the Mahanta isn't he! Thus,
                > > if he didn't know he wouldn't be much of
                > > a Mahanta would he! Either way, Klemp is
                > > Not who or what he claims. It's so obvious!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > > Prometheus Wrote:
                > >
                > > I forgot to ask if Klemp still has his minions
                > > checking bags for the EK Temple and ESC
                > > tours? Does one get off the bus and still
                > > have their Bags Searched and Checked?
                > >
                > > I actually thought that the Metal Detectors
                > > at the main hall on Sat. night and searches
                > > at the EK Temple in Oct. 2001 were strange
                > > for ECKists to be put through. It seemed to
                > > be a knee-jerk reaction to fear. However,
                > > I, also, thought that it was only temporary!
                > >
                > > To see these policies continue after all these
                > > years really makes me wonder WHY?
                > >
                > > Is Klemp so paranoid and egotistical that he
                > > needs all of these precautions and defenses?
                > > Yes, it seems so!
                > >
                > > Really, why would someone want to assassinate
                > > Klemp? He's a loser! This just shows how
                > > mentally unstable Klemp really is! Yet, HK's
                > > nutty and paranoid Seminar behavior has
                > > now become "normal" operating procedure.
                > > Why don't ECKists ever question this? Or,
                > > are they afraid to? Sure they are! And who would
                > > be listening anyway? Probably someone who
                > > would, also, be writing their name on a list.
                > >
                > > But, are other EK speakers or performers given
                > > Bullet Proof Vests to wear? Are there Metal
                > > Detectors on Friday night or during the day?
                > > No! Of course not! It's all for old paranoid Klemp!
                > >
                > > Really, the proof is in the pudding! How can
                > > Klemp be what he claims when he is so fearful!
                > > Think about it! This is real undeniable proof!
                > > It is factual! It is real! Those Metal Detectors
                > > and the Searches at the Temple and ESC are
                > > proof of Klemp's fear! One might question
                > > whether HK has a Bullet Proof Vest on or has
                > > Armed Body Guards, but there's no rationalizing
                > > the other proof, or is there! Denial isn't just a
                > > river in Egypt! LOL!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello All,
                > > At Minneapolis EK Seminars, since 9/11/2001,
                > > ECKists have been required to go through metal
                > > detectors while Klemp wears a bullet proof vest
                > > and has armed body guards standing near him!
                > >
                > > Do ECKists find anything wrong with this picture?
                > >
                > > What would Jesus or Gandhi do? Would they have
                > > their followers searched before they were able to
                > > enter a hall to listen to their talk? Would Jesus or
                > > Gandhi be fearful of death and wear a bullet proof
                > > vest and have armed body guards ready to shoot
                > > and kill someone?
                > >
                > > And, isn't the LEM/Mahanta (Klemp) supposed to be
                > > so much "higher" and "greater" than Jesus or Gandhi!
                > > It seems the proof doesn't bear this out does it! Klemp
                > > is fearful and is losing his mind (via fear & ego) more
                > > and more each day. He's afraid to promote Joan to
                > > the 12th and afraid to anoint a new LEM!
                > >
                > > I've heard some comments about the 2008 EWWS,
                > > but I'm not all that interested in Klemp's nonsense.
                > > If I was all that interested in what he had to say
                > > I would have paid my $30 and taped the talk! But,
                > > why should I? It's all a bunch of crap anyway. Klemp
                > > never says anything that is new or interesting. HK's
                > > pep talks are dumbed down because Klemp's
                > > consciousness isn't above that of a 2nd initiate!
                > >
                > > Almost any H.I. could prepare and give a better
                > > talk than Klemp's! Just put a Klemp mask on
                > > someone and introduce him as the Mahanta the
                > > Living ECK Master and viola! If the person's voice
                > > doesn't sound quite like Klemp's then he could
                > > attribute this to a food allergy which was the
                > > result of taking on more Karma for his chelas!
                > > LOL!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hello Liska and All, I think that Klemp just remarked that sometimes people get too much of the ECK at the seminars and will become overloaded and out of
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 6, 2008
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                  Hello Liska and All,
                  I think that Klemp just remarked that
                  sometimes people get too much of the
                  "ECK" at the seminars and will become
                  overloaded and out of balance. It seemed
                  like everyone related to HK's remarks.
                  He could have said more about this but
                  I was outside near the entryway to the
                  main hall with the woman, and other H.I.s
                  and security people.

                  I'm almost thinking that this was an
                  Orlando venue for this major EK seminar.
                  I know it wasn't in Minneapolis. I was
                  seated near the center of the main aisle
                  and heard her yelling and then saw her
                  running and waving her arms as she ran
                  down the aisle and approached me.
                  "We" stopped her about 50 feet from
                  the stage and escorted her outside near
                  the entrance. Actually, she was confused
                  and suffering from what some call a
                  "nervous (mental) breakdown" much like
                  Klemp experienced when he jumped off
                  that bridge and did a striptease at an
                  airport in 1970.

                  I heard Harry comment upon the incident
                  while escorting her out and while standing
                  outside through a partly open door.

                  It is interesting that when things like this
                  happen to others (except Klemp) it's referred
                  to as getting too much of the "ECK" and being
                  overloaded. With Klemp, it was the result of
                  God-Realization! LOL!

                  Prometheus



                  Prometheus, you said, "BTW-I was there
                  and helped to take that one person, who
                  went whacky, out to the hallway."

                  Can you tell us the story about that person?
                  What was HK's reaction?

                  Liska

                  prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Liska and All,
                  > I do know the story about the Metal Detectors
                  > and it was due to 9/11/2001. It started that
                  > October and continues today!
                  >
                  > BTW-I was there and helped to take that one
                  > person, who went whacky, out to the hallway.
                  > And, there were no Metal Detectors after this
                  > or other incidents. It was all due to the Terrorist
                  > attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. And, there are enough
                  > security personnel, everywhere, that Klemp should
                  > have no fear from anyone. Believe me, I've seen
                  > the security layers and it's more than you might
                  > imagine. Behind the scenes it's very professional.
                  >
                  > Besides, if Klemp was who he claimed he would
                  > have the ability to make himself invisible, or
                  > would see the danger in advance and avoid it.
                  > HK is a Modern Prophet... right?
                  >
                  > The Metal Detectors are just another sign of
                  > Klemp's paranoia and unstable mental health.
                  > Shouldn't all ECK Chelas attending HK's talk
                  > be wearing Bullet Proof Vests just in case?
                  > Why Not? Shouldn't chelas be afraid of losing
                  > their life like Klemp is afraid of losing his?
                  >
                  > Also, most of the front row seats are always
                  > reserved for a certain select group of H.I.s.
                  > Bob Lawton's people tend to get good front
                  > row seats, as well as, ESC H.I. staffers or
                  > special out-of-town guests.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > Liska Wrote:
                  > Prometheus, maybe somebody out there
                  > knows the story about the metal detectors.
                  > I thought they started using them when some
                  > crazed woman started running down the aisle
                  > toward Klemp shouting "Master, Master...!"
                  >
                  > The Shariyat states that H.I.'s are supposed
                  > to be willing to lay down their own lives for
                  > the Master. If that's true, then Klemp doesn't
                  > need metal detectors because any H.I. will
                  > take a bullet for him. Somebody should remind
                  > him of that Shariyat passage. Any ESC staff
                  > listening?
                  >
                  > By the way, what happened to Twitchell's
                  > repeated claims that all H.I.'s can communicate
                  > with each other through the inner channels?
                  > So, here we have another Eckankar myth because
                  > if this was true, Klemp could just send messages
                  > to all the H.I.'s. He wouldn't need to ask eckists
                  > to spy on each other (refer to his fox in the henhouse
                  > article) and he could protect himself at seminars
                  > by sending out a "Help Me!" command on the inner.
                  >
                  > So, Harold, why spend all that money for security
                  > and make eckists wait in long lines going through
                  > metal detectors? Just reserve all the front row seats
                  > for H.I.'s. Then, if there's an emergency, you give
                  > the command on the inner for every H.I. to save
                  > you while you hightail it out of there.
                  >
                  > Regards
                  > Liska
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I wonder what EK Seminar "Newcomers"
                  > > thought about the Metal Detectors and
                  > > the Searches for Klemp's Sat. evening talk?
                  > > They were invited to hear Guru Klemp
                  > > give his talk and then had to go through
                  > > Metal Detectors and open their bags to
                  > > be Searched!!! Wouldn't a "Man of God"
                  > > place his trust in God?
                  > >
                  > > These Metal Detectors and Searches
                  > > have been going on for years and yet
                  > > nobody is permitted to complain! ECK
                  > > Leaders know they have to keep silent
                  > > about what they see. ECKists have to
                  > > rationalize and turn a blind eye to it all
                  > > in order to have ECKankar work for them
                  > > like their former religions worked for them
                  > > (or not) all of those years ago.
                  > >
                  > > Would 2nd or 4th Plane (of Consciousness)
                  > > Gandhi or Jesus worry about Terrorists?
                  > > Yet, 14th Plane (of Con) Klemp seems to
                  > > be paranoid and fearful! Doesn't this make
                  > > ECKists wonder why? How can this be!
                  > >
                  > > Why should ECK Vahanas do all of that
                  > > work when Klemp's negative behaviour
                  > > destroys it all! How disheartening and
                  > > embarrassing!
                  > >
                  > > ECKists should ask themselves, Would
                  > > it be okay to do a body and bag search
                  > > of people before they attended a local
                  > > ECK Worship Service?
                  > >
                  > > As much as most former ECKists dislike
                  > > Klemp we would never do him harm.
                  > > Even if I lived within driving range of
                  > > Minneapolis I'd never go to an EK Seminar,
                  > > the EK Temple, or to the ESC to shout and
                  > > protest. The Internet is enough. But, Klemp's
                  > > knee jerk reaction to Fear was due to 9/11
                  > > and is not about a threat from former ECKists.
                  > >
                  > > Klemp has gotten more and more paranoid,
                  > > delusional, and mean spirited over the years.
                  > > Really, are Terrorists going to target Klemp?
                  > > Hmmmm, maybe a narcissist would think so!
                  > >
                  > > BTW- Since Klemp claims to be a "Modern
                  > > Prophet" why didn't he foresee 9/11/2001?
                  > > Psychics can make generalized predictions.
                  > >
                  > > Thus, why should ECKists continue to work
                  > > for Klemp when he behaves like a fearful moron!
                  > > What kind of a spiritual leader is Klemp when
                  > > he's so paranoid? It's obvious that HK is just
                  > > acting in a role he inherited from Gross, and
                  > > that he can't get beyond his long-term mentally
                  > > unstable nature!
                  > >
                  > > This is a Wake-UP Call for ECKists! Metal
                  > > Detectors Do Not Equate to Higher Consciousness!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus Wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Are the Metal Detectors (for HK's talk)
                  > > and Searches and Checked Bags for the
                  > > Temple and ESC Tours still necessary?
                  > > Why?
                  > >
                  > > These security precautions were, originally,
                  > > in response to the 9/11/2001 Terrorist
                  > > Attacks. Why has Klemp continued this
                  > > Fear Mongering search policy?
                  > >
                  > > Why is HK still wearing a Bullet Proof Vest
                  > > and has Armed Body Guards when 9/11
                  > > was a Terrorist Attack against this Country
                  > > and Not against Klemp personally!
                  > >
                  > > Klemp's paranoia is proof that he's Not
                  > > a Master! Do these security efforts make
                  > > ECKists feel safer? Perhaps, especially
                  > > during HK's talk. But, isn't the Mahanta
                  > > supposed to "protect" chelas anyway and
                  > > at all times? But, why can't the Mahanta
                  > > "protect" himself? Even if HK was shot or
                  > > blown up by Terrorists... wouldn't that be
                  > > part of his Karmic Mission?
                  > >
                  > > Why then, is Klemp fearful of his own
                  > > death? Talk is cheap isn't it! Klemp can't
                  > > walk the walk!
                  > >
                  > > What are the chances of Terrorists attacking
                  > > Klemp and Company? Really! What are the
                  > > chances? I'll bet there's a greater chance of
                  > > being struck by lightening or attacked by a
                  > > shark!
                  > >
                  > > Once again, Why do ECKists Not See what
                  > > is right in front of them? It seems to be the
                  > > blind leading the blind when Chelas say
                  > > nothing about those Metal Detectors or
                  > > Searches. Don't think that Klemp knows
                  > > nothing about these security precautions,
                  > > after all, he's the Mahanta isn't he! Thus,
                  > > if he didn't know he wouldn't be much of
                  > > a Mahanta would he! Either way, Klemp is
                  > > Not who or what he claims. It's so obvious!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus Wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I forgot to ask if Klemp still has his minions
                  > > checking bags for the EK Temple and ESC
                  > > tours? Does one get off the bus and still
                  > > have their Bags Searched and Checked?
                  > >
                  > > I actually thought that the Metal Detectors
                  > > at the main hall on Sat. night and searches
                  > > at the EK Temple in Oct. 2001 were strange
                  > > for ECKists to be put through. It seemed to
                  > > be a knee-jerk reaction to fear. However,
                  > > I, also, thought that it was only temporary!
                  > >
                  > > To see these policies continue after all these
                  > > years really makes me wonder WHY?
                  > >
                  > > Is Klemp so paranoid and egotistical that he
                  > > needs all of these precautions and defenses?
                  > > Yes, it seems so!
                  > >
                  > > Really, why would someone want to assassinate
                  > > Klemp? He's a loser! This just shows how
                  > > mentally unstable Klemp really is! Yet, HK's
                  > > nutty and paranoid Seminar behavior has
                  > > now become "normal" operating procedure.
                  > > Why don't ECKists ever question this? Or,
                  > > are they afraid to? Sure they are! And who would
                  > > be listening anyway? Probably someone who
                  > > would, also, be writing their name on a list.
                  > >
                  > > But, are other EK speakers or performers given
                  > > Bullet Proof Vests to wear? Are there Metal
                  > > Detectors on Friday night or during the day?
                  > > No! Of course not! It's all for old paranoid Klemp!
                  > >
                  > > Really, the proof is in the pudding! How can
                  > > Klemp be what he claims when he is so fearful!
                  > > Think about it! This is real undeniable proof!
                  > > It is factual! It is real! Those Metal Detectors
                  > > and the Searches at the Temple and ESC are
                  > > proof of Klemp's fear! One might question
                  > > whether HK has a Bullet Proof Vest on or has
                  > > Armed Body Guards, but there's no rationalizing
                  > > the other proof, or is there! Denial isn't just a
                  > > river in Egypt! LOL!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello All,
                  > > At Minneapolis EK Seminars, since 9/11/2001,
                  > > ECKists have been required to go through metal
                  > > detectors while Klemp wears a bullet proof vest
                  > > and has armed body guards standing near him!
                  > >
                  > > Do ECKists find anything wrong with this picture?
                  > >
                  > > What would Jesus or Gandhi do? Would they have
                  > > their followers searched before they were able to
                  > > enter a hall to listen to their talk? Would Jesus or
                  > > Gandhi be fearful of death and wear a bullet proof
                  > > vest and have armed body guards ready to shoot
                  > > and kill someone?
                  > >
                  > > And, isn't the LEM/Mahanta (Klemp) supposed to be
                  > > so much "higher" and "greater" than Jesus or Gandhi!
                  > > It seems the proof doesn't bear this out does it! Klemp
                  > > is fearful and is losing his mind (via fear & ego) more
                  > > and more each day. He's afraid to promote Joan to
                  > > the 12th and afraid to anoint a new LEM!
                  > >
                  > > I've heard some comments about the 2008 EWWS,
                  > > but I'm not all that interested in Klemp's nonsense.
                  > > If I was all that interested in what he had to say
                  > > I would have paid my $30 and taped the talk! But,
                  > > why should I? It's all a bunch of crap anyway. Klemp
                  > > never says anything that is new or interesting. HK's
                  > > pep talks are dumbed down because Klemp's
                  > > consciousness isn't above that of a 2nd initiate!
                  > >
                  > > Almost any H.I. could prepare and give a better
                  > > talk than Klemp's! Just put a Klemp mask on
                  > > someone and introduce him as the Mahanta the
                  > > Living ECK Master and viola! If the person's voice
                  > > doesn't sound quite like Klemp's then he could
                  > > attribute this to a food allergy which was the
                  > > result of taking on more Karma for his chelas!
                  > > LOL!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
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