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Re: 3 New 12ths To Be Named - Peter, Don & Joan!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I was just wondering what people think Klemp s plans are for the upcoming EK Worldwide Seminar. We already know that Harry s Sat. evening talk will
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 25, 2008
      Hello All,
      I was just wondering what people
      think Klemp's plans are for the upcoming
      EK Worldwide Seminar.

      We already know that Harry's Sat. evening
      talk will have a couple Nigerian stories, but
      what else? Who will be on stage with him?

      Will others (new EK Masters) be doing most
      of the talking for HK and (later) rubbing elbows,
      shaking hands, and giving hugs to their adoring
      fans and wannabes?

      Any thoughts, speculation, insights, or divine
      wisdom? Let's have fun Second Guessing the
      Mahanta!

      Prometheus



      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > It's been leaked, from one of the
      > highest seats at the ESC, that in
      > following the ECK Principle of the
      > Threes that Klemp will promote
      > THREE 9ths to the 12th Circle of
      > Initiation on Oct. 22!
      >
      > It's still not clear who the new
      > LEM will be... Peter Skelsky or
      > Don Ginn, but Harry Klemp will
      > remain for at least FIVE more years
      > as the 14th Circle "FULL" Mahanta!
      >
      >
      >
      > Prometheus wrote:
      > Hello All,
      > I was just thinking that maybe DON
      > GINN, and Not Peter Skelsky, will be
      > named the new 12th Circle LEM.
      >
      > After all, Don did give up his RESA
      > position and moved to Minneapolis
      > from California recently (about 12
      > months ago)! What was that all about,
      > unless, it meant that DON was promised
      > a promotion!
      >
      > Hasn't Don Ginn been in ECKankar
      > longer than Peter Skelsky? I'm, also,
      > thinking that both Peter and Don were
      > promoted to Ninth Initiates within this
      > past year! At first, I thought Don would
      > take Peter's job as President of ECKankar
      > and that Peter would be named LEM.
      >
      > Now, I'm thinking that both JOAN and
      > DON will receive their 12ths on Wednesday
      > Oct. 22, 2008. This will, therefore, be
      > announced by Klemp during his, Oct.
      > 25th, Saturday evening talk.
      >
      > Of course, Klemp might "change" his
      > plans after reading this on ESA. Does
      > HK want to admit that Former chelas
      > have More and Clearer Insights than
      > his Current H.I. chelas, or that we can
      > "read" the Mahanta's mind? No! I don't
      > think so! Therefore, HK might postpone
      > this, too, like he did with Joan's promotion
      > to that of 12th Circle ECK Master! But,
      > he'd better do something soon... time
      > is running out for him to ensure his
      > 14th Circle "FULL" Mahanta (for life)
      > status!
      >
      >
      >
      > Prometheus Wrote:
      > Hello Liska and All,
      > Maybe Joan will wait to be made
      > an ECK Master before putting a
      > stop to Klemp's nonsense, or before
      > continuing her own. Look at how
      > both of these EK Leaders dealt with
      > that Third Temporary Postal Clerk
      > in the 09/2003 H.I. Letter! Very
      > Negative!!! Talk about making
      > Assumptions, Judging people, and
      > saying Negative and Mean things!!!
      > Both were guilty, but HK was the
      > worst of all!!! [Go to "Messages"
      > to the left and search "Postal Clerk"]
      >
      >
      > drubezarne wrote:
      > Somebody should tell Joan to denounce
      > her husband publicly at the WW for
      > practicing black magic. After all, Klemp
      > did make fun of her in front of everybody
      > at the last WW. If somebody doesn't denounce
      > Klemp, who'se going to protect all those
      > chelas from the black magician.
      >
      > Liska
      >
      >
      > <prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Liska and All,
      > > It's true that the next LEM could denounce
      > > Klemp (the Mahanta) as a Black Magician!
      > > This is what Klemp did as a 12th Circle LEM
      > > (Mahanta-In-Training) to 14th Circle FULL
      > > Mahanta Gross.
      > >
      > > Klemp's replacement, the new LEM/Mahanta,
      > > could, also, state that Klemp was Never a
      > > FULL 14th Mahanta and that Rebazar had
      > > stepped in during the long-time breach,
      > > and loss, of Mahanta Consciousness. Also,
      > > the new LEM/Mahanta could state that
      > > Twitchell had been the only "FULL" Mahanta.
      > >
      > > Or, maybe the new guy would say there is
      > > No such thing as a difference between the
      > > LEM and the Mahanta and that Klemp, Who
      > > would No Longer be the LEM, is also No
      > > Longer the Mahanta. It all depends on how
      > > many EK Board Members the LEM has on
      > > his side! However, the LEM can hire and
      > > fire Board Members as he sees fit because
      > > he is in charge of the "Outer" ECKankar
      > > Church!
      > >
      > > Klemp has fallen from Grace! This is the
      > > real reason as to WHY Rebazar and the
      > > other ECK Masters have appeared in the
      > > dreams of more ECKists than Klemp!
      > >
      > > When Klemp appears on the "inner" it is
      > > Not on the "Higher Planes," but actually
      > > on the Lower "inner" Planes as a KAL agent!
      > > This is, also, WHY so many fairly young EK
      > > chelas are experiencing, and are even dying
      > > from, very negative diseases like cancer!
      > >
      > > Therefore, only a Black Magician like Klemp
      > > could have these Negative Effects upon EK
      > > Chelas! This is the "proof" that any future
      > > LEM could use to denounce Klemp... HK's
      > > broken promises of "Protection" and "Healing."
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > drubezarne wrote:
      > Prometheus, all we have to do is declare Klemp a black magician.
      > That's what he did to Darwin to justify getting rid of him. We have
      > enough proof that Klemp has been practicing black magic on his
      > follower. Here are just a few examples...
      > >
      > "The wrath of the ECK crashes down upon anyone who …deserts the
      > Master…. Not once will he see the connection between his betrayal …and
      > the horrendous troubles that strike him down like a plague on every
      > hand. And thus he goes downward…until he leaves his body in hopeless
      > despair…. " (Klemp, The ECK Satsang Discourses, Third Series, Letter 8).
      > >
      > "These betrayers of ECK will pick up all their old karma once more.
      > More, the karma of all those whom they've fooled is inscribed into
      > their karmic log too. Hard times lie in store for them." (Mystic
      > World, Ask The Master by Harold Klemp, March 2004).
      > >
      > So you see, everybody who left Eckankar has been cursed by Klemp.
      > Isn't it black magic to curse people like this?
      > >
      > Regards
      > Liska
      > >
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello All,
      > > > Could a 12th or 13th Circle LEM
      > > > circumvent Klemp's 1998 Prophecy
      > > > that there would be Five or More
      > > > 12th Circle LEMs before the next
      > > > 14th Circle FULL Mahanta came
      > > > on the scene?
      > > >
      > > > I was giving more thought to
      > > > other possible scenarios and
      > > > since Klemp denounced Gross
      > > > there's No reason that the next
      > > > LEM could not do the same to
      > > > HK! After all, it is stated in the
      > > > ECKankar Dogma that consciousness
      > > > is won and lost daily, or from
      > > > moment to moment.
      > > >
      > > > Klemp even stated in the Winter 1987
      > > > "The Wisdom Notes" the following:
      > > > "It may surprise a FIFTH Initiate to
      > > > find that after several years of absence
      > > > from discourse study, he has slipped
      > > > back to the FOURTH level."
      > > >
      > > > Therefore, this too should apply to HK
      > > > as well. Spiritual Law would apply this
      > > > even more so to Klemp since he has
      > > > more responsibility and further to fall!
      > > > When was the "Masters 4 Discourse"
      > > > written? I know it's been more than
      > > > "several years!" Where is a new "Masters
      > > > 5 Discourse" or a Shariyat 3 & 4?
      > > >
      > > > I can see how a 12th LEM could find
      > > > enough reasons to demote Klemp for
      > > > his Lazy/Hazy behaviours. But, HK
      > > > could, also, be demoted on charges
      > > > that he orchestrated an inappropriate
      > > > use of ECKankar funds.
      > > >
      > > > However, only a 13th Circle LEM could
      > > > exercise his authority to Initiate more
      > > > chelas as 12th Circle ECK Masters.
      > > > This way, these "ECK Masters" would
      > > > out number Joan and Harry and, at the
      > > > same time, it would fulfill HK's prophecy
      > > > (in part) and the 13th Circle LEM could
      > > > promote himself to a 14th Circle FULL
      > > > Mahanta via Rebazar Tarzs! It would not
      > > > be necessary that these 12ths become
      > > > LEMs as Klemp stated if "The Torchbearer"
      > > > (RT) is said to step in to take over for
      > > > Klemp due to his prolonged illness.
      > > >
      > > > Actually, the next LEM could say that HK's
      > > > "vision" was more than even slightly off at
      > > > the time due to the effects of his EMR disease,
      > > > rapid aging and decline of cognition. Therefore,
      > > > it wouldn't be necessary to promote all of
      > > > these Chelas to the 12th Circle. Besides,
      > > > "Change is Change," therefore, Klemp's
      > > > Prophecy in the DEC. 1998 Wisdom Notes
      > > > can, also, "Change." It's not written in stone
      > > > is it?
      > > >
      > > > Remember how Klemp promoted himself
      > > > to Mahanta?
      > > >
      > > > At the 1983 EWWS someone switched
      > > > flowers and brought out a new vase
      > > > with dyed BLUE flowers just before
      > > > HK came on stage. We were all whispering
      > > > about what we had just seen because we
      > > > had been anticipating his promotion for
      > > > some time. Imagine a convention hall with
      > > > 2,000 people whispering at the same time.
      > > > He was probably laughing his ass off at our
      > > > ignorance. We were suckered by a pro!
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, I still think that Joan will be made
      > > > a 12th Circle ECK Master and that Peter
      > > > Skelsky will be made a 12th Circle LEM
      > > > (Mahanta in training?) while Klemp remains
      > > > the 14th Circle FULL Mahanta.
      > > >
      > > > BTW- What ever happened to the Mahanta-
      > > > in-Training thing? The definition for "Mahanta"
      > > > in the EK Lexicon states that the Mahanta
      > > > is, also, the "Living ECK Master." Klemp once
      > > > explained this away (so that he could stay on
      > > > via Catch-22) by redefining this definition.
      > > >
      > > > And, Klemp's DEC. 1998 Wisdom Notes
      > > > never mentions the 13th Circle or that
      > > > the LEM is the Mahanta-In-Training!
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus wrote:
      > > > Hello Etznab and All,
      > > > Klemp has no plans on stepping down
      > > > as the Mahanta. This is why he pointed
      > > > out that there would be FIVE, or More,
      > > > Successive 12th Circle ECK Masters
      > > > before there would be another 14th
      > > > Circle "FULL" Mahanta.
      > > >
      > > > And, since a 14th Circle FULL Mahanta
      > > > has established this, or Prophesied
      > > > it, a 12th or 13th Circle ECK Master,
      > > > or LEM, can never contradict it ever!
      > > > Catch-22! Klemp has learned his KAL
      > > > trickery well and has filled-in all of
      > > > the loop holes that Gross had overlooked!
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > > > Etznab Wrote:
      > > > Looking at the past, I have to wonder
      > > > what happened to the "Mahanta" in 1981.
      > > >
      > > > If Darwin renounced the position of spiritual leader &
      > > > named Harold Klemp as Living Eck Master, where did
      > > > the "Mahanta" go?
      > > >
      > > > Another example is 1971, after Paul Twitchell died &
      > > > his widow announced Darwin Gross as L.E.M.
      > > >
      > > > From the records I'm familiar with, Darwin was using
      > > > the term "Mahanta" after about 1973. Harold was using
      > > > it after about 1983-84.
      > > >
      > > > I don't doubt that any L.E.M. could take the full title
      > > > of "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master" during their term.
      > > > It has already happened at least twice. Another quest-
      > > > ion might be What living authority could prevent them?
      > > >
      > > > Is Harold Klemp and his words going to serve as the
      > > > authority of the "Mahanta" after Harold's term expires?
      > > > Becausae wouldn't the "L.E.M." be the authority and
      > > > not some past master?
      > > >
      > > > Harold as L.E.M., by the way, was able to remove
      > > > Darwin Gross and strip away his initiations, etc,, etc.
      > > >
      > > > Some considerations that came up after looking at
      > > > the topic you shared.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > prometheus wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello Sharon and All,
      > > > > Thanks Sharon for posting an
      > > > > excerpt from the Dec. 1998
      > > > > Wisdom Notes. IMO-Klemp's
      > > > > plan is to install, possibly, two
      > > > > 12ths as ECK Masters and one,
      > > > > probably, as the next LEM.
      > > > >
      > > > > Mish had posted HK's comments
      > > > > about Joan introducing people
      > > > > to him, the Mahanta, on the "Inner"
      > > > > in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters
      > > > > (2005)," and that this was written
      > > > > by Klemp in order to lay the groundwork
      > > > > for Joan (his 2nd wife) to be named
      > > > > as an EK 12th Initiate (ECK Master),
      > > > > and possibly the Co-LEM.
      > > > >
      > > > > I had agreed with that analysis, but
      > > > > now am seeing another alternative.
      > > > > I don't think that Joan will be a Co-
      > > > > LEM, but that she might be announced
      > > > > as one of two 12th Initiates (ECK Masters)!
      > > > >
      > > > > Reviewing this Dec. 1998 EK Wisdom
      > > > > Notes has given me new insights
      > > > > and has revealed another very plausible
      > > > > plan of Klemp's.
      > > > >
      > > > > The plan of HK's is to promote JOAN,
      > > > > and perhaps another like PETER, to the
      > > > > 12th Circle and ECK Master status,
      > > > > AND that HK would STAY ON FOR LIFE
      > > > > as the 14th Circle "MAHANTA."
      > > > >
      > > > > PETER would be made the new LEM
      > > > > and Harry will have JOAN [another
      > > > > (equal) 12th] to keep watch on things
      > > > > for Harry at the ESC!
      > > > >
      > > > > Think about it... everything is now in
      > > > > place for Klemp to make his "changes."
      > > > >
      > > > > DECEMBER 1998 THE WISDOM NOTES
      > > > >
      > > > > "In this Wisdom Note we'll look at several
      > > > > important areas for your spiritual consideration.
      > > > > First, an update to the September 1993 Wisdom
      > > > > Note and "the first five spiritual leaders of modern-
      > > > > day ECKANKAR." [snip]
      > > > >
      > > > > 1. The First Five Spiritual Leaders of Modern-Day
      > > > > ECKANKAR
      > > > >
      > > > > The Fourth of the Five Spiritual Leaders needs
      > > > > a further word.
      > > >
      > > > > Rather than being a person, it is more accurate
      > > > > to call it a Stage, or Position.
      > > >
      > > > > This Position may be filled by Five or More
      > > > > Successive ECK Masters (Twelfth Circle of ECK
      > > > > Initiations) who will serve as Living ECK Master
      > > > > Before the next Mahanta, the Living ECK Master
      > > > > (Fourteenth Circle) comes to fill the Fifth Position.
      > > > >
      > > > > The reason? The coming of the next Mahanta
      > > > > of the Fourteenth Circle depends upon Spiritual
      > > > > Need. All Souls, in All Universes, determine that
      > > > > need, for as the Group Entity their spiritual progress
      > > > > is the final key.
      > > > >
      > > > > Will this Group Entity stay on the Fast Track
      > > > > to God or stop along the path to Rest?
      > > > >
      > > > > It has chosen to Rest.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ME: [But Why the Slow-Down on Chelas' EK
      > > > > Initiations since ECKists aren't part of this
      > > > > "Group Entity" or are they?]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Free Will allows the Group Entity, and all the
      > > > > individuals within it, to go at their own speed.
      > > > > Earth is a reflection of The Universal Group Entity.
      > > > > Current events since then have seen a gradual
      > > > > Slow-Down of people's spiritual drive as evidenced
      > > > > in a renewed interest in warfare and social welfare.
      > > > > Until these Souls are ready to shoulder their own
      > > > > responsibilities again, they'll rest.
      > > > >
      > > > > So Five to Seven Living ECK Masters of the Twelfth
      > > > > Circle will serve successively in the Fourth Spiritual
      > > > > Leadership Stage, or Position, until the time is right.
      > > > > After that comes the next Mahanta, the Living ECK
      > > > > Master of the Fourteenth Circle.
      > > > >
      > > > > Please review the September 1998 Wisdom Note
      > > > > for the difference between a Living ECK Master
      > > > > and the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master."
      > > > > [end of quote, my caps]
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ME: Sounds like more Bullshit coming directly
      > > > > from Klemp's mouth doesn't it! HK's been planning
      > > > > his retirement for awhile hasn't he! Hmmm
      > > > > I wonder if there are other possible candidates
      > > > > for the 12th Initiation (ECK Mastership) that are
      > > > > good at writing massive numbers of worthless
      > > > > books just as Klemp has done?
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus
      > >
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