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The EK Misrepresentation of: Which Came First?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab and All, It s obvious that the lies, trickery, and brainwashing techniques of Twitchell, and now Klemp, have impaired the cognitive processes of
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 12, 2008
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      Hello Etznab and All,
      It's obvious that the lies, trickery,
      and brainwashing techniques of
      Twitchell, and now Klemp, have
      impaired the cognitive processes
      of their trusting and gullible EK
      Chelas (even the more educated ones)!

      The ECKankar Church was Not
      created prior to 1965. But Twitchell
      tried to make it seem that it
      (ECKankar) had always existed
      by referring to it as "ECK."

      In the beginning, and for
      the sake of convenience
      and memory, Twit would
      interchange both words,
      ECK and ECKankar, to mean
      the same... ECKankar!

      Later, PT had "ECK" to mean
      "SPIRIT."

      Therefore, Twitchell confused
      EK chelas early on by using two
      different definitions for "ECK."

      One definition of "ECK" is, still,
      "ECKankar."

      The other definition of "ECK"
      is "SPIRIT."

      "ECK" is now a Copyrighted term
      used exclusively by ECKankar.
      Therefore, its use and meaning
      is limited by manmade law and
      church dogma.

      By Itself the word SPIRIT can never
      be copyrighted or held as exclusive
      by any one religion or business.

      Therefore, many EK chelas will define
      SPIRIT as being different from ECK
      just as "God" is different from "Sugmad!"

      Later on, EK speak will say that different
      terms are needed to break up older
      mindsets. Therefore, "ECK" breaks up
      the older mindset associated with
      "SPIRIT." Except, the same really can't
      be applied to "God" and to "Sugmad"
      since both PT and HK have stated that
      the "God" of all religions is the 2nd or
      4th Plane KAL/Satan while Sugmad resides
      on the 10th Plane (Anami Lok).

      Besides, in the beginning it had nothing
      to do with "breaking up mindsets." PT
      just needed a shortened name for Eckankar.

      ]Isn't it interesting, too, that "EK" is, also,
      used by PT as well. Yet, look at the word
      EKankar from "The Path of the Masters"
      page 283-4, NAMES OF THE SUPREME
      BEING: "Ekankar means the 'One oneness,'
      the body of oneness... The whole universe
      is considered as ONE, the true Ekankar...
      Hence the Soami is Nirankar, i.e., formless.
      As such he is without personality, hence
      without name."]

      Anyway, it soon becomes obvious
      for those with eyes to see and ears
      to hear and minds to understand that
      Twitchell and Klemp have scammed
      every ECKist with their distortions of
      the Truth!

      For many ECKists their religion and its
      terminology (jargon) becomes an embarrassment.
      This, too, is one reason as to why Vahanas
      are instructed to use "common language"
      that makes everyone "feel" more comfortable.
      But, this technique is also used to distort and
      to confuse the Truth for both parties.

      If ECKankar can't be presented at face value
      should ECKists distort it via "common language?"

      If I was still an EK Vahana I would have a higher
      standard and Not think in terms of "By Any Means
      Necessary" to get people to join up. Shouldn't
      SOUL have higher standards of Ethics and Morals?
      WHY, then, is "Common Language" needed to SELL
      ECKankar?

      EK Chelas shouldn't use the term "God" when
      they really mean "the" SUGMAD! Klemp is the
      one who began this Negative and Deceptive
      Vahana Technique to use COMMON LANGUAGE!
      Really, ECKists should think about this... Why
      Not Be Honest With People and Let the Chips
      Fall Where They May.

      If seekers are still interested in Eckankar after
      the Vahanas have been open and honest about
      the Terminology, the Time & Requirements for
      Initiation, the Expectations of Service, the Rules
      and Guidelines of the RESA Hierarchy, and the
      EK Membership Costs and Requirements then
      that's another story! But, Unfortunately these
      ECK Vahanas have lost their Moral Compasses
      because Klemp never had one! EK's a Game of
      "Follow the Leader," except, the followers pay!

      Prometheus


      Etznab wrote:
      Was contemplating something.

      Suppose a member of Eckankar
      wrote a term paper. Research on
      offshoots of Eckankar. How these
      offshoots "took from" the teach-
      ings of Eckankar, and without
      crediting the source.

      How do you imagine adherents
      to (members of) the other paths
      would look at the term paper and
      the one who wrote it?

      Would they (could they) claim
      that their own teachings came to
      them by way of "spiritual adepts",
      or other than the Eck Masters"?
      I mean, the members of offshoot
      teachings.

      And if other paths used the
      same teachings and wanted to be
      the "owners" of information from
      "Eckankar", would it be legal to
      do that provided they changed so
      many words and names first?

      This is a constantly evolving
      paradigm, IMO. Where one teaching,
      or a group of people, "take from"
      what already exists, change it, or
      modify certain specifications and
      then call it their "own".

      I don't believe it began with
      sant Mat, radha soami, or ruhani
      satsang. And I don't believe it
      ended with "Eckankar".

      It has been stated "in so many
      words" that all religions/paths &
      spiritual teachings are offshoots
      of Eckankar (in a manner of speak-
      ing). However, it could also just
      as well be stated that teachings
      of "Eckankar Inc." are offshoots
      of other religions/paths & spirit-
      ual teachings. This is my opinion.

      One unfortunate consequence
      from making anonymous and/or
      fictional words and sources for
      an origin of spiritual teachings
      is how it gobbles up the history
      and/or the trail of actual events
      and evolution behind them. Like
      burning the bridges!

      Without the "bridges" and the
      knowledge of connections, a person
      could effectively become "isolated"
      to a relatively limited "island" of
      information from which there is
      no apparent escape!

      I've learned a lot from source
      material(s) which contributed to
      the teachings of "Eckankar". Like
      so many of the books that Paul T.
      both read and quoted from. It gave
      me a chance to learn more by having
      some of the same information that
      Paul Twitchell had access to. And
      it helped to look at the "sources"
      for material(s) later associated
      with some of the "Eck Masters".

      Etznab


      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hi Liska,
      > Thanks for showing the original
      > source for where Twitchell and
      > Klemp found the HU. My 1977
      > copy of "The Path of the Masters"
      > has this same information but on
      > pages 490-491.
      >
      > BTW- I looked in the back of the
      > book at the "Glossary of Foreign
      > Terms" and saw these words defined:
      >
      > Hu.--An Arabic term. The Supreme
      > Word.
      >
      > Sat Nam.--The Lord of the fifth region,
      > the supreme Creator of all worlds below
      > his station; the creator of souls. Our true
      > spiritual Father.
      >
      > Satsangi.--A disciple of the Master.
      > One who is initiated and attends satsang.
      > Technically one who has reached the
      > first stage.
      >
      > Shariyat.--Mode, or code of life,
      > according to Mohammedan law or
      > custom.
      >
      > Tistra Til.--Meaning the third eye,
      > a point in the subtle body, just between
      > the two eyebrows. At this center,
      > the disciples of the Saints begin their
      > concentration, and from that they go up.
      >
      > Vairag or vairagya.--Detachment, particularly
      > mental detachment from the world, and
      > worldly desires. (It does not mean asceticism).
      >
      >
      > Yes, it's obvious where Twitchell got his
      > material for his Westernized version of
      > another flawed religion. [All religions are
      > flawed] One has to understand that the
      > "Why" Eckankar doesn't work is due to it
      > being full of lies and distortions in the
      > first place! Much of the source material
      > used in PT's Westernized version for
      > ECKankar is from "The Path of the Masters!"
      > The Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang
      > religions with their "living Masters" don't
      > work either! All religion is crap!
      >
      > The real Truth seeker discovers their own
      > subjective path to this Truth. Yes, we can
      > learn and share certain basic truths with
      > one another, but each needs to make their
      > own efforts of discovery and Never Be Led
      > by those selling their wares!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • Elizabeth
      Prometheus wrote: ECK is now a Copyrighted term used exclusively by ECKankar. Me: I don t know why this was funny to me; as I sit here recalling a family I
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 12, 2008
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        Prometheus wrote:
         
        "ECK" is now a Copyrighted term
        used exclusively by ECKankar.
         
        Me:
         
        I don't know why this was funny to me; as I sit here recalling a family I used to know while living in AZ, with the last name of "ECK".  Silly me asked them if they knew what their name meant!  LOL,  you can imagine the strange look I got....  So do you think each and every individual that has the last name of "ECK" realize just how special they are!?  Or maybe Eckankar will sue them for the obvious copyright violation!  ;-))) 
         
        Liz
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Liz and All, Twitchell once wrote about being mistaken for Mr. Eck (page 95 of Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master ). PT had a vanity license
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 13, 2008
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          Hello Liz and All,
          Twitchell once wrote about being
          mistaken for Mr. Eck (page 95
          of "Difficulties Of Becoming The
          Living ECK Master"). PT had a vanity
          license plate that read "ECK," and
          a person who had married a woman
          whose surname was Eck thought
          Twit was actually Mr. Eck because
          Twitchell led him on to think that
          he was. Twitchell was just having
          fun because he was always the joker
          and trickster and even denies that
          he was being deceitful with the man.
          But, really, in many ways Paul was
          being no more deceitful with this
          stranger than he was with anyone
          else... including his chelas! And that's
          the problem!

          BTW- Here are some quotes from the,
          same, above mentioned book. In this
          FIRST quote Twit is talking about HOW
          NOT TO READ the ECK discourses.

          PT: "... the student who is in a hurry
          for information and engages in speed
          reading or jumps to conclusions on the
          basis of a few paragraphs hastily scanned,
          misses the most benefits of all." (pg. 197)

          PT: "... when I was in Seattle I read about
          35,000 books, or I don't say that I particularly
          read them word for word. I went through
          35,000 books of every subject you can
          know which built me a background for
          a certain bit of work that I have today."
          (pg. 98)

          ME: Twitchell contradicts himself again!
          Apparently, there is a double standard
          that is still in use today! NOTE TOO,
          Twitchell's writing style! It's apparent,
          when reading his books, what he had
          plagiarized or had written himself!

          PT: "... you must remember that I myself
          DO NOT approve of the use of our own
          people to sell a product in the name of
          ECK. 'Cause we are a spiritual organization
          and we're not a sales organization for any
          material products." (pg. 104)

          ME: Someone should remind Klemp of this!
          Look at all of the EK mailings and count the
          sales ads, or the mentioning of a book or CD,
          etc.

          Speaking of Klemp here's a PT quote from
          the same book that reminded me of Klemp
          paying for his entry into "The International
          Who's Who of Intellectuals (Ninth Edition):

          "Paul does not appear to like the intellectual
          person. He says they are all the same, making
          elaborate little plans. They give fussy attention
          to small perfections and when something goes
          wrong because of their inborn blindness, they
          scream frantically for help from someone else
          to act in their behalf--to do something for them."

          [pg. 244, excerpt from Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970
          "The Wind From Heaven" Ch. 1, a new biography
          on Paul that was to be released "NEXT Spring"
          (1972) versus This Spring (1971)] Thus, Paul
          planned to be around for awhile longer and
          Did Not see or expect his own death!

          ME: So, this shows Twit's mean spirited and
          ignorant bias toward those who use critical
          thinking and question his authority and lies.
          BTW- It's funny to see Klemp promoting himself
          as an "intellectual" when all he has are his
          dozens of simple-minded books to give him
          a facade of credibility.

          PT: "Since ECKANKAR, the Ancient Science
          of God-Awareness, furnishes the chela with
          whatever knowledge is needed, it is the ONLY
          method to use for making judgments.

          Also, since ECKANKAR is the ONLY path to
          God, we can find ourselves unfolding the
          latent ability which is always within each
          individual. Therefore, we can use this modus
          operandi for self-healing, responsibility to
          all, and enter into the Kingdom of God Here
          and Now while living in the physical body."
          (pg. 214)

          ME: So, "ECKANKAR is the only path to God."
          I don't think that Klemp or his Vahanas say
          this, BUT it is what they believe! Isn't that
          called "lying" or being "deceptive!" Isn't this
          a KAL trait?

          PT: "Too many people want to resolve their
          problems HERE and NOW through some
          Agency outside the human consciousness.
          They are constantly on the lookout for
          Miracles. This is the failure of the human
          consciousness--it is a KAL trap in which
          man falls so many times... They run about
          constantly trying to find the Miracle Man
          who will give them relief from their problems."
          (pg. 215)

          ME: Doesn't this sound like Paul is saying
          that EK Chelas, too, don't needed a Miracle
          Man/Mahanta to solve their problems for
          them or to rely on him for "miracles." Just
          read the latest EK Mystic World or H.I. Letter
          or listen to HK's Seminar talks about chelas'
          testimonies about their EK "miracles!"

          ECKists have lost their way, even more so,
          with Klemp in charge. BUT not to worry...
          Joan Klemp and Sarah Palin will save the day!

          Prometheus


          Prometheus wrote:

          "ECK" is now a Copyrighted term
          used exclusively by ECKankar.


          LIZ WROTE:
          I don't know why this was funny to me;
          as I sit here recalling a family I used to
          know while living in AZ, with the last
          name of "ECK". Silly me asked them if
          they knew what their name meant! LOL,
          you can imagine the strange look I got....
          So do you think each and every individual
          that has the last name of "ECK" realize just
          how special they are!? Or maybe Eckankar
          will sue them for the obvious copyright
          violation! ;-)))


          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello Etznab and All,
          > It's obvious that the lies, trickery,
          > and brainwashing techniques of
          > Twitchell, and now Klemp, have
          > impaired the cognitive processes
          > of their trusting and gullible EK
          > Chelas (even the more educated ones)!
          >
          > The ECKankar Church was Not
          > created prior to 1965. But Twitchell
          > tried to make it seem that it
          > (ECKankar) had always existed
          > by referring to it as "ECK."
          >
          > In the beginning, and for
          > the sake of convenience
          > and memory, Twit would
          > interchange both words,
          > ECK and ECKankar, to mean
          > the same... ECKankar!
          >
          > Later, PT had "ECK" to mean
          > "SPIRIT."
          >
          > Therefore, Twitchell confused
          > EK chelas early on by using two
          > different definitions for "ECK."
          >
          > One definition of "ECK" is, still,
          > "ECKankar."
          >
          > The other definition of "ECK"
          > is "SPIRIT."
          >
          > "ECK" is now a Copyrighted term
          > used exclusively by ECKankar.
          > Therefore, its use and meaning
          > is limited by manmade law and
          > church dogma.
          >
          > By Itself the word SPIRIT can never
          > be copyrighted or held as exclusive
          > by any one religion or business.
          >
          > Therefore, many EK chelas will define
          > SPIRIT as being different from ECK
          > just as "God" is different from "Sugmad!"
          >
          > Later on, EK speak will say that different
          > terms are needed to break up older
          > mindsets. Therefore, "ECK" breaks up
          > the older mindset associated with
          > "SPIRIT." Except, the same really can't
          > be applied to "God" and to "Sugmad"
          > since both PT and HK have stated that
          > the "God" of all religions is the 2nd or
          > 4th Plane KAL/Satan while Sugmad resides
          > on the 10th Plane (Anami Lok).
          >
          > Besides, in the beginning it had nothing
          > to do with "breaking up mindsets." PT
          > just needed a shortened name for Eckankar.
          >
          > ]Isn't it interesting, too, that "EK" is, also,
          > used by PT as well. Yet, look at the word
          > EKankar from "The Path of the Masters"
          > page 283-4, NAMES OF THE SUPREME
          > BEING: "Ekankar means the 'One oneness,'
          > the body of oneness... The whole universe
          > is considered as ONE, the true Ekankar...
          > Hence the Soami is Nirankar, i.e., formless.
          > As such he is without personality, hence
          > without name."]
          >
          > Anyway, it soon becomes obvious
          > for those with eyes to see and ears
          > to hear and minds to understand that
          > Twitchell and Klemp have scammed
          > every ECKist with their distortions of
          > the Truth!
          >
          > For many ECKists their religion and its
          > terminology (jargon) becomes an embarrassment.
          > This, too, is one reason as to why Vahanas
          > are instructed to use "common language"
          > that makes everyone "feel" more comfortable.
          > But, this technique is also used to distort and
          > to confuse the Truth for both parties.
          >
          > If ECKankar can't be presented at face value
          > should ECKists distort it via "common language?"
          >
          > If I was still an EK Vahana I would have a higher
          > standard and Not think in terms of "By Any Means
          > Necessary" to get people to join up. Shouldn't
          > SOUL have higher standards of Ethics and Morals?
          > WHY, then, is "Common Language" needed to SELL
          > ECKankar?
          >
          > EK Chelas shouldn't use the term "God" when
          > they really mean "the" SUGMAD! Klemp is the
          > one who began this Negative and Deceptive
          > Vahana Technique to use COMMON LANGUAGE!
          > Really, ECKists should think about this... Why
          > Not Be Honest With People and Let the Chips
          > Fall Where They May.
          >
          > If seekers are still interested in Eckankar after
          > the Vahanas have been open and honest about
          > the Terminology, the Time & Requirements for
          > Initiation, the Expectations of Service, the Rules
          > and Guidelines of the RESA Hierarchy, and the
          > EK Membership Costs and Requirements then
          > that's another story! But, Unfortunately these
          > ECK Vahanas have lost their Moral Compasses
          > because Klemp never had one! EK's a Game of
          > "Follow the Leader," except, the followers pay!
          >
          > Prometheus
        • Ingrid
          Hi Liz and Prometheus,   ECK cannot be copyrighted in German - because Ecke or shortened Eck means corner ...   So does this mean that we
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 14, 2008
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            Hi Liz and Prometheus,

             

            "ECK" cannot be copyrighted in German - because "Ecke" or shortened "Eck" means "corner" ...

             

            So does this mean that we German-speaking people are all special?? Of course - LOL! But it's because everybody is special in their way ... not in the eck way ...

            Ingrid



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Elizabeth <ewickings@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 2:07:41 AM
            Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] The EK Misrepresentation of: Which Came First?

             
             
            Prometheus wrote:
             
            "ECK" is now a Copyrighted term
            used exclusively by ECKankar.
             
            Me:
             
            I don't know why this was funny to me; as I sit here recalling a family I used to know while living in AZ, with the last name of "ECK".  Silly me asked them if they knew what their name meant!  LOL,  you can imagine the strange look I got....  So do you think each and every individual that has the last name of "ECK" realize just how special they are!?  Or maybe Eckankar will sue them for the obvious copyright violation!  ;-))) 
             
            Liz


          • prometheus_973
            Hello Ingrid and All, I m curious as to what copyrighted and trademarked terms are listed in the German language publication of The Mystic World of
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 15, 2008
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              Hello Ingrid and All,
              I'm curious as to what "copyrighted"
              and "trademarked" terms are listed
              in the German language publication
              of "The Mystic World" of ECKankar.

              Do you have any old copies to check?
              Are there any German language EK
              books that you could check as well?

              I agree that we are all special and
              don't need another religion, like
              ECKankar, to tell us that we are
              special (for a yearly fee of course)!

              Oops! I mean for a yearly "donation"
              Not "fee!" LOL! Non-Profit Orgs. can't
              have fees or even "REQUIRED" DONATIONS,
              however, they can "recommend" a
              donation. Therefore, EK Chelas can
              save some money and throw down
              a $5.00 bill for each session at the
              2008 EWWS!

              BTW- What does "Eckstein" mean
              in German?

              Prometheus
              p.s. These (below) quotes of PT's are
              from "Difficulties Of Becoming The
              Living ECK Master." I'd like to comment
              on the context of these further. As
              anyone can see, Twitchell, basically,
              states that he built his ECKankar Church
              around information that he "HASTILY
              SCANNED" and, thereby, "JUMPS TO
              CONCLUSIONS" and "MISSES THE MOST
              BENEFITS OF ALL" OF WHAT IT HAD TO
              OFFER. Twitchell, therefore, misunderstood
              and overlooked a lot of relevant information
              pertaining to his new philosophy and
              religious scam!


              PT: "... when I was in Seattle I read about
              35,000 books, or I DON'T SAY THAT I
              PARTICULARLY READ THEM WORD FOR
              WORD. I WENT THROUGH 35,000 BOOKS
              of EVERY SUBJECT YOU CAN KNOW WHICH
              BUILT ME A BACKGROUND FOR A CERTAIN
              BIT OF WORK THAT I HAVE TODAY."
              (pg. 98)

              PT: "... THE STUDENT WHO IS IN A HURRY
              FOR INFORMATION and engages in SPEED
              READING or JUMPS TO CONCLUSIONS on
              the BASIS OF A FEW PARAGRAPHS HASTILY
              SCANNED, MISSES THE MOST BENEFITS OF
              ALL." (pg. 197)



              Ingrid Wrote:

              Hi Liz and Prometheus,
              "ECK" cannot be copyrighted in German -
              because "Ecke" or shortened "Eck" means
              "corner" ...

              So does this mean that we German-speaking
              people are all special?? Of course - LOL!
              But it's because everybody is special in their
              way ... not in the eck way ...


              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Liz and All,
              > Twitchell once wrote about being
              > mistaken for Mr. Eck (page 95
              > of "Difficulties Of Becoming The
              > Living ECK Master"). PT had a vanity
              > license plate that read "ECK," and
              > a person who had married a woman
              > whose surname was Eck thought
              > Twit was actually Mr. Eck because
              > Twitchell led him on to think that
              > he was. Twitchell was just having
              > fun because he was always the joker
              > and trickster and even denies that
              > he was being deceitful with the man.
              > But, really, in many ways Paul was
              > being no more deceitful with this
              > stranger than he was with anyone
              > else... including his chelas! And that's
              > the problem!
              >
              > BTW- Here are some quotes from the,
              > same, above mentioned book. In this
              > FIRST quote Twit is talking about HOW
              > NOT TO READ the ECK discourses.
              >
              > PT: "... the student who is in a hurry
              > for information and engages in speed
              > reading or jumps to conclusions on the
              > basis of a few paragraphs hastily scanned,
              > misses the most benefits of all." (pg. 197)
              >
              > PT: "... when I was in Seattle I read about
              > 35,000 books, or I don't say that I particularly
              > read them word for word. I went through
              > 35,000 books of every subject you can
              > know which built me a background for
              > a certain bit of work that I have today."
              > (pg. 98)
              >
              > ME: Twitchell contradicts himself again!
              > Apparently, there is a double standard
              > that is still in use today! NOTE TOO,
              > Twitchell's writing style! It's apparent,
              > when reading his books, what he had
              > plagiarized or had written himself!
              >
              > PT: "... you must remember that I myself
              > DO NOT approve of the use of our own
              > people to sell a product in the name of
              > ECK. 'Cause we are a spiritual organization
              > and we're not a sales organization for any
              > material products." (pg. 104)
              >
              > ME: Someone should remind Klemp of this!
              > Look at all of the EK mailings and count the
              > sales ads, or the mentioning of a book or CD,
              > etc.
              >
              > Speaking of Klemp here's a PT quote from
              > the same book that reminded me of Klemp
              > paying for his entry into "The International
              > Who's Who of Intellectuals (Ninth Edition):
              >
              > "Paul does not appear to like the intellectual
              > person. He says they are all the same, making
              > elaborate little plans. They give fussy attention
              > to small perfections and when something goes
              > wrong because of their inborn blindness, they
              > scream frantically for help from someone else
              > to act in their behalf--to do something for them."
              >
              > [pg. 244, excerpt from Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970
              > "The Wind From Heaven" Ch. 1, a new biography
              > on Paul that was to be released "NEXT Spring"
              > (1972) versus This Spring (1971)] Thus, Paul
              > planned to be around for awhile longer and
              > Did Not see or expect his own death!
              >
              > ME: So, this shows Twit's mean spirited and
              > ignorant bias toward those who use critical
              > thinking and question his authority and lies.
              > BTW- It's funny to see Klemp promoting himself
              > as an "intellectual" when all he has are his
              > dozens of simple-minded books to give him
              > a facade of credibility.
              >
              > PT: "Since ECKANKAR, the Ancient Science
              > of God-Awareness, furnishes the chela with
              > whatever knowledge is needed, it is the ONLY
              > method to use for making judgments.
              >
              > Also, since ECKANKAR is the ONLY path to
              > God, we can find ourselves unfolding the
              > latent ability which is always within each
              > individual. Therefore, we can use this modus
              > operandi for self-healing, responsibility to
              > all, and enter into the Kingdom of God Here
              > and Now while living in the physical body."
              > (pg. 214)
              >
              > ME: So, "ECKANKAR is the only path to God."
              > I don't think that Klemp or his Vahanas say
              > this, BUT it is what they believe! Isn't that
              > called "lying" or being "deceptive!" Isn't this
              > a KAL trait?
              >
              > PT: "Too many people want to resolve their
              > problems HERE and NOW through some
              > Agency outside the human consciousness.
              > They are constantly on the lookout for
              > Miracles. This is the failure of the human
              > consciousness--it is a KAL trap in which
              > man falls so many times... They run about
              > constantly trying to find the Miracle Man
              > who will give them relief from their problems."
              > (pg. 215)
              >
              > ME: Doesn't this sound like Paul is saying
              > that EK Chelas, too, don't needed a Miracle
              > Man/Mahanta to solve their problems for
              > them or to rely on him for "miracles." Just
              > read the latest EK Mystic World or H.I. Letter
              > or listen to HK's Seminar talks about chelas'
              > testimonies about their EK "miracles!"
              >
              > ECKists have lost their way, even more so,
              > with Klemp in charge. BUT not to worry...
              > Joan Klemp and Sarah Palin will save the day!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > Prometheus wrote:
              >
              > "ECK" is now a Copyrighted term
              > used exclusively by ECKankar.
              >
              >
              > LIZ WROTE:

              > I don't know why this was funny to me;
              > as I sit here recalling a family I used to
              > know while living in AZ, with the last
              > name of "ECK". Silly me asked them if
              > they knew what their name meant! LOL,
              > you can imagine the strange look I got....
              > So do you think each and every individual
              > that has the last name of "ECK" realize just
              > how special they are!? Or maybe Eckankar
              > will sue them for the obvious copyright
              > violation! ;-)))
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Etznab and All,
              > > It's obvious that the lies, trickery,
              > > and brainwashing techniques of
              > > Twitchell, and now Klemp, have
              > > impaired the cognitive processes
              > > of their trusting and gullible EK
              > > Chelas (even the more educated ones)!
              > >
              > > The ECKankar Church was Not
              > > created prior to 1965. But Twitchell
              > > tried to make it seem that it
              > > (ECKankar) had always existed
              > > by referring to it as "ECK."
              > >
              > > In the beginning, and for
              > > the sake of convenience
              > > and memory, Twit would
              > > interchange both words,
              > > ECK and ECKankar, to mean
              > > the same... ECKankar!
              > >
              > > Later, PT had "ECK" to mean
              > > "SPIRIT."
              > >
              > > Therefore, Twitchell confused
              > > EK chelas early on by using two
              > > different definitions for "ECK."
              > >
              > > One definition of "ECK" is, still,
              > > "ECKankar."
              > >
              > > The other definition of "ECK"
              > > is "SPIRIT."
              > >
              > > "ECK" is now a Copyrighted term
              > > used exclusively by ECKankar.
              > > Therefore, its use and meaning
              > > is limited by manmade law and
              > > church dogma.
              > >
              > > By Itself the word SPIRIT can never
              > > be copyrighted or held as exclusive
              > > by any one religion or business.
              > >
              > > Therefore, many EK chelas will define
              > > SPIRIT as being different from ECK
              > > just as "God" is different from "Sugmad!"
              > >
              > > Later on, EK speak will say that different
              > > terms are needed to break up older
              > > mindsets. Therefore, "ECK" breaks up
              > > the older mindset associated with
              > > "SPIRIT." Except, the same really can't
              > > be applied to "God" and to "Sugmad"
              > > since both PT and HK have stated that
              > > the "God" of all religions is the 2nd or
              > > 4th Plane KAL/Satan while Sugmad resides
              > > on the 10th Plane (Anami Lok).
              > >
              > > Besides, in the beginning it had nothing
              > > to do with "breaking up mindsets." PT
              > > just needed a shortened name for Eckankar.
              > >
              > > ]Isn't it interesting, too, that "EK" is, also,
              > > used by PT as well. Yet, look at the word
              > > EKankar from "The Path of the Masters"
              > > page 283-4, NAMES OF THE SUPREME
              > > BEING: "Ekankar means the 'One oneness,'
              > > the body of oneness... The whole universe
              > > is considered as ONE, the true Ekankar...
              > > Hence the Soami is Nirankar, i.e., formless.
              > > As such he is without personality, hence
              > > without name."]
              > >
              > > Anyway, it soon becomes obvious
              > > for those with eyes to see and ears
              > > to hear and minds to understand that
              > > Twitchell and Klemp have scammed
              > > every ECKist with their distortions of
              > > the Truth!
              > >
              > > For many ECKists their religion and its
              > > terminology (jargon) becomes an embarrassment.
              > > This, too, is one reason as to why Vahanas
              > > are instructed to use "common language"
              > > that makes everyone "feel" more comfortable.
              > > But, this technique is also used to distort and
              > > to confuse the Truth for both parties.
              > >
              > > If ECKankar can't be presented at face value
              > > should ECKists distort it via "common language?"
              > >
              > > If I was still an EK Vahana I would have a higher
              > > standard and Not think in terms of "By Any Means
              > > Necessary" to get people to join up. Shouldn't
              > > SOUL have higher standards of Ethics and Morals?
              > > WHY, then, is "Common Language" needed to SELL
              > > ECKankar?
              > >
              > > EK Chelas shouldn't use the term "God" when
              > > they really mean "the" SUGMAD! Klemp is the
              > > one who began this Negative and Deceptive
              > > Vahana Technique to use COMMON LANGUAGE!
              > > Really, ECKists should think about this... Why
              > > Not Be Honest With People and Let the Chips
              > > Fall Where They May.
              > >
              > > If seekers are still interested in Eckankar after
              > > the Vahanas have been open and honest about
              > > the Terminology, the Time & Requirements for
              > > Initiation, the Expectations of Service, the Rules
              > > and Guidelines of the RESA Hierarchy, and the
              > > EK Membership Costs and Requirements then
              > > that's another story! But, Unfortunately these
              > > ECK Vahanas have lost their Moral Compasses
              > > because Klemp never had one! EK's a Game of
              > > "Follow the Leader," except, the followers pay!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              >
            • Ingrid
              Hi Prometheus and all I m afraid I have thrown away all eck publications, but I will check if I have a German eck newsletter that escaped from being thrown
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 16, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Prometheus and all

                I'm afraid I have thrown away all eck publications, but I will check if I have a German eck newsletter that escaped from being thrown out. I think they have copyrighted eck in the religious field but of course they can't copyright it exclusively. If you google "eck" in German, the first thing that comes up is an electricity company in Austria. LOL!

                Of course you meant "donation" and not "fee"! Because ekkies are never forced to do things ... LOL

                Eckstein means cornerstone - "eck" = corner and "stein" = stone
                Ingrid

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 7:05:03 PM
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The EK Misrepresentation of: Which Came First?

                Hello Ingrid and All,
                I'm curious as to what "copyrighted"
                and "trademarked" terms are listed
                in the German language publication
                of "The Mystic World" of ECKankar.

                Do you have any old copies to check?
                Are there any German language EK
                books that you could check as well?

                I agree that we are all special and
                don't need another religion, like
                ECKankar, to tell us that we are
                special (for a yearly fee of course)!

                Oops! I mean for a yearly "donation"
                Not "fee!" LOL! Non-Profit Orgs. can't
                have fees or even "REQUIRED" DONATIONS,
                however, they can "recommend" a
                donation. Therefore, EK Chelas can
                save some money and throw down
                a $5.00 bill for each session at the
                2008 EWWS!

                BTW- What does "Eckstein" mean
                in German?

                Prometheus
                p.s. These (below) quotes of PT's are
                from "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                Living ECK Master." I'd like to comment
                on the context of these further. As
                anyone can see, Twitchell, basically,
                states that he built his ECKankar Church
                around information that he "HASTILY
                SCANNED" and, thereby, "JUMPS TO
                CONCLUSIONS" and "MISSES THE MOST
                BENEFITS OF ALL" OF WHAT IT HAD TO
                OFFER. Twitchell, therefore, misunderstood
                and overlooked a lot of relevant information
                pertaining to his new philosophy and
                religious scam!

                PT: "... when I was in Seattle I read about
                35,000 books, or I DON'T SAY THAT I
                PARTICULARLY READ THEM WORD FOR
                WORD. I WENT THROUGH 35,000 BOOKS
                of EVERY SUBJECT YOU CAN KNOW WHICH
                BUILT ME A BACKGROUND FOR A CERTAIN
                BIT OF WORK THAT I HAVE TODAY."
                (pg. 98)

                PT: "... THE STUDENT WHO IS IN A HURRY
                FOR INFORMATION and engages in SPEED
                READING or JUMPS TO CONCLUSIONS on
                the BASIS OF A FEW PARAGRAPHS HASTILY
                SCANNED, MISSES THE MOST BENEFITS OF
                ALL." (pg. 197)



                Ingrid Wrote:

                Hi Liz and Prometheus,
                "ECK" cannot be copyrighted in German -
                because "Ecke" or shortened "Eck" means
                "corner" ...

                So does this mean that we German-speaking
                people are all special?? Of course - LOL!
                But it's because everybody is special in their
                way ... not in the eck way ...

                prometheus wrote:

                >
                > Hello Liz and All,
                > Twitchell once wrote about being
                > mistaken for Mr. Eck (page 95
                > of "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                > Living ECK Master"). PT had a vanity
                > license plate that read "ECK," and
                > a person who had married a woman
                > whose surname was Eck thought
                > Twit was actually Mr. Eck because
                > Twitchell led him on to think that
                > he was. Twitchell was just having
                > fun because he was always the joker
                > and trickster and even denies that
                > he was being deceitful with the man.
                > But, really, in many ways Paul was
                > being no more deceitful with this
                > stranger than he was with anyone
                > else... including his chelas! And that's
                > the problem!
                >
                > BTW- Here are some quotes from the,
                > same, above mentioned book. In this
                > FIRST quote Twit is talking about HOW
                > NOT TO READ the ECK discourses.
                >
                > PT: "... the student who is in a hurry
                > for information and engages in speed
                > reading or jumps to conclusions on the
                > basis of a few paragraphs hastily scanned,
                > misses the most benefits of all." (pg. 197)
                >
                > PT: "... when I was in Seattle I read about
                > 35,000 books, or I don't say that I particularly
                > read them word for word. I went through
                > 35,000 books of every subject you can
                > know which built me a background for
                > a certain bit of work that I have today."
                > (pg. 98)
                >
                > ME: Twitchell contradicts himself again!
                > Apparently, there is a double standard
                > that is still in use today! NOTE TOO,
                > Twitchell's writing style! It's apparent,
                > when reading his books, what he had
                > plagiarized or had written himself!
                >
                > PT: "... you must remember that I myself
                > DO NOT approve of the use of our own
                > people to sell a product in the name of
                > ECK. 'Cause we are a spiritual organization
                > and we're not a sales organization for any
                > material products." (pg. 104)
                >
                > ME: Someone should remind Klemp of this!
                > Look at all of the EK mailings and count the
                > sales ads, or the mentioning of a book or CD,
                > etc.
                >
                > Speaking of Klemp here's a PT quote from
                > the same book that reminded me of Klemp
                > paying for his entry into "The International
                > Who's Who of Intellectuals (Ninth Edition):
                >
                > "Paul does not appear to like the intellectual
                > person. He says they are all the same, making
                > elaborate little plans. They give fussy attention
                > to small perfections and when something goes
                > wrong because of their inborn blindness, they
                > scream frantically for help from someone else
                > to act in their behalf--to do something for them."
                >
                > [pg. 244, excerpt from Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970
                > "The Wind From Heaven" Ch. 1, a new biography
                > on Paul that was to be released "NEXT Spring"
                > (1972) versus This Spring (1971)] Thus, Paul
                > planned to be around for awhile longer and
                > Did Not see or expect his own death!
                >
                > ME: So, this shows Twit's mean spirited and
                > ignorant bias toward those who use critical
                > thinking and question his authority and lies.
                > BTW- It's funny to see Klemp promoting himself
                > as an "intellectual" when all he has are his
                > dozens of simple-minded books to give him
                > a facade of credibility.
                >
                > PT: "Since ECKANKAR, the Ancient Science
                > of God-Awareness, furnishes the chela with
                > whatever knowledge is needed, it is the ONLY
                > method to use for making judgments.
                >
                > Also, since ECKANKAR is the ONLY path to
                > God, we can find ourselves unfolding the
                > latent ability which is always within each
                > individual. Therefore, we can use this modus
                > operandi for self-healing, responsibility to
                > all, and enter into the Kingdom of God Here
                > and Now while living in the physical body."
                > (pg. 214)
                >
                > ME: So, "ECKANKAR is the only path to God."
                > I don't think that Klemp or his Vahanas say
                > this, BUT it is what they believe! Isn't that
                > called "lying" or being "deceptive!" Isn't this
                > a KAL trait?
                >
                > PT: "Too many people want to resolve their
                > problems HERE and NOW through some
                > Agency outside the human consciousness.
                > They are constantly on the lookout for
                > Miracles. This is the failure of the human
                > consciousness- -it is a KAL trap in which
                > man falls so many times... They run about
                > constantly trying to find the Miracle Man
                > who will give them relief from their problems."
                > (pg. 215)
                >
                > ME: Doesn't this sound like Paul is saying
                > that EK Chelas, too, don't needed a Miracle
                > Man/Mahanta to solve their problems for
                > them or to rely on him for "miracles." Just
                > read the latest EK Mystic World or H.I. Letter
                > or listen to HK's Seminar talks about chelas'
                > testimonies about their EK "miracles!"
                >
                > ECKists have lost their way, even more so,
                > with Klemp in charge. BUT not to worry...
                > Joan Klemp and Sarah Palin will save the day!
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > Prometheus wrote:
                >
                > "ECK" is now a Copyrighted term
                > used exclusively by ECKankar.
                >
                >
                > LIZ WROTE:

                > I don't know why this was funny to me;
                > as I sit here recalling a family I used to
                > know while living in AZ, with the last
                > name of "ECK". Silly me asked them if
                > they knew what their name meant! LOL,
                > you can imagine the strange look I got....
                > So do you think each and every individual
                > that has the last name of "ECK" realize just
                > how special they are!? Or maybe Eckankar
                > will sue them for the obvious copyright
                > violation! ;-)))
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello Etznab and All,
                > > It's obvious that the lies, trickery,
                > > and brainwashing techniques of
                > > Twitchell, and now Klemp, have
                > > impaired the cognitive processes
                > > of their trusting and gullible EK
                > > Chelas (even the more educated ones)!
                > >
                > > The ECKankar Church was Not
                > > created prior to 1965. But Twitchell
                > > tried to make it seem that it
                > > (ECKankar) had always existed
                > > by referring to it as "ECK."
                > >
                > > In the beginning, and for
                > > the sake of convenience
                > > and memory, Twit would
                > > interchange both words,
                > > ECK and ECKankar, to mean
                > > the same... ECKankar!
                > >
                > > Later, PT had "ECK" to mean
                > > "SPIRIT."
                > >
                > > Therefore, Twitchell confused
                > > EK chelas early on by using two
                > > different definitions for "ECK."
                > >
                > > One definition of "ECK" is, still,
                > > "ECKankar."
                > >
                > > The other definition of "ECK"
                > > is "SPIRIT."
                > >
                > > "ECK" is now a Copyrighted term
                > > used exclusively by ECKankar.
                > > Therefore, its use and meaning
                > > is limited by manmade law and
                > > church dogma.
                > >
                > > By Itself the word SPIRIT can never
                > > be copyrighted or held as exclusive
                > > by any one religion or business.
                > >
                > > Therefore, many EK chelas will define
                > > SPIRIT as being different from ECK
                > > just as "God" is different from "Sugmad!"
                > >
                > > Later on, EK speak will say that different
                > > terms are needed to break up older
                > > mindsets. Therefore, "ECK" breaks up
                > > the older mindset associated with
                > > "SPIRIT." Except, the same really can't
                > > be applied to "God" and to "Sugmad"
                > > since both PT and HK have stated that
                > > the "God" of all religions is the 2nd or
                > > 4th Plane KAL/Satan while Sugmad resides
                > > on the 10th Plane (Anami Lok).
                > >
                > > Besides, in the beginning it had nothing
                > > to do with "breaking up mindsets." PT
                > > just needed a shortened name for Eckankar.
                > >
                > > ]Isn't it interesting, too, that "EK" is, also,
                > > used by PT as well. Yet, look at the word
                > > EKankar from "The Path of the Masters"
                > > page 283-4, NAMES OF THE SUPREME
                > > BEING: "Ekankar means the 'One oneness,'
                > > the body of oneness... The whole universe
                > > is considered as ONE, the true Ekankar...
                > > Hence the Soami is Nirankar, i.e., formless.
                > > As such he is without personality, hence
                > > without name."]
                > >
                > > Anyway, it soon becomes obvious
                > > for those with eyes to see and ears
                > > to hear and minds to understand that
                > > Twitchell and Klemp have scammed
                > > every ECKist with their distortions of
                > > the Truth!
                > >
                > > For many ECKists their religion and its
                > > terminology (jargon) becomes an embarrassment.
                > > This, too, is one reason as to why Vahanas
                > > are instructed to use "common language"
                > > that makes everyone "feel" more comfortable.
                > > But, this technique is also used to distort and
                > > to confuse the Truth for both parties.
                > >
                > > If ECKankar can't be presented at face value
                > > should ECKists distort it via "common language?"
                > >
                > > If I was still an EK Vahana I would have a higher
                > > standard and Not think in terms of "By Any Means
                > > Necessary" to get people to join up. Shouldn't
                > > SOUL have higher standards of Ethics and Morals?
                > > WHY, then, is "Common Language" needed to SELL
                > > ECKankar?
                > >
                > > EK Chelas shouldn't use the term "God" when
                > > they really mean "the" SUGMAD! Klemp is the
                > > one who began this Negative and Deceptive
                > > Vahana Technique to use COMMON LANGUAGE!
                > > Really, ECKists should think about this... Why
                > > Not Be Honest With People and Let the Chips
                > > Fall Where They May.
                > >
                > > If seekers are still interested in Eckankar after
                > > the Vahanas have been open and honest about
                > > the Terminology, the Time & Requirements for
                > > Initiation, the Expectations of Service, the Rules
                > > and Guidelines of the RESA Hierarchy, and the
                > > EK Membership Costs and Requirements then
                > > that's another story! But, Unfortunately these
                > > ECK Vahanas have lost their Moral Compasses
                > > because Klemp never had one! EK's a Game of
                > > "Follow the Leader," except, the followers pay!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                >


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