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Distinguishing Traits that Show Eckankar is a Destructive Cult

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  • drubezarne
    Hi Prometheus Thanks for your insights. In case some people don t believe that membership in Eckankar means that you are in a destructive cult, then here is an
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 10, 2008
      Hi Prometheus
      Thanks for your insights. In case some people don't believe that
      membership in Eckankar means that you are in a destructive cult, then
      here is an excerpt from a document called The Distinguishing Traits of
      a Destructive Cult. I can post the entire pdf on this site if
      Prometheus wants to create a documents section. I thought the last
      characteristic of the leader fit Klemp perfectly. One of the
      distinguishing characteristics of someone with Narcissistic
      Personality Disorder is their lack of empathy. If you want to learn
      what Klemp is really like, then google Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

      Regards
      Liska

      1. Destructive cults have a pyramid-structured system of leadership,
      with one person at the very top and then people below him or her, and
      people below them, and on down, in a specifically defined "chain of
      command." There is virtually no autonomy in decision or policymaking;
      important decisions and policies are made from the top down. This
      pyramid structure and the identity of the very top leader(s) may be
      openly acknowledged and well known by all the members; the point
      is that it exists. In this paper, the term "member" refers to any
      person in the organization who is below the top leader by one or more
      "degrees."

      2. The top leader of a destructive cult has certain distinguishing
      characteristics. Although some destructive cults may have more than
      one person at the very top (especially if the founder of the group has
      died and others have taken over its leadership), usually it is just
      one person. He or she:

      • Is the final and sole authority, rule-maker and rule-enforcer, over
      the group.

      • Is almost always the founder of the group.

      • Is extremely charismatic and convincing.

      • Claims that he or she has found the best (usually the only) way to
      God / prosperity / nirvana / inner peace, etc. (i.e. some ultimate
      life goal) and is able to convince others of this.

      • Does not suffer or sacrifice as his or her followers do.

      • Is above scrutiny and criticism.

      • Can make his or her followers do practically anything, often
      including unethical and/or illegal acts.

      • Often shows characteristics of mental illness, and has the traits
      defined by psychologists as "Narcissistic Personality Disorder."


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Liska, Etznab and All,
      >
      > Etznab, it could be that Gross
      > and Klemp didn't want to "correct"
      > the lies and distortions of Twitchell
      > because there would be nothing
      > of believable substance left to base
      > the ECKANKAR Religion upon! Both
      > DG and HK had/have fantastic jobs!
      > Why would a CEO deny himself the
      > money, the perks, the power, the
      > image, the respect, and the admiration?
      > They wouldn't! Thus, the scam was
      > passed on and continues!
      >
      > Liska,
      > I think that Klemp HALF believes that
      > he is the Mahanta. It's obvious that;
      > anyone who talks of himself in third
      > person, who accepts titles that define
      > himself as not only GOD, but "higher"
      > than God, that he is a narcissist and
      > is delusional.
      >
      > However, I also think that Klemp is
      > Greedy, Controlling, and Dishonest.
      > Klemp has rationalized his role in the
      > "as if" game he is playing. And, HK's
      > arrested development has helped
      > him to become more reclusive in this
      > pretend role he plays.
      >
      > HK has told himself that he is providing
      > a beneficial service to his chelas. He is
      > giving them Hope and is helping them
      > to alleviate their Fears and to Imagine
      > good things in/for their lives.
      >
      > All religions have, basically, similar
      > goals and similar dogmas. The reason
      > there are so many different Religions
      > and churches is because of the specifics.
      > But all religions need followers for money,
      > for power, and for volunteers. Religious
      > leaders need to have masses of people
      > to control and the followers want to be
      > controlled and told what to do. Thinking
      > is too much trouble, too time consuming
      > and confusing when others "know" more.
      > And, people want to feel safe and secure
      > by emulating the Leader, following his
      > orders, or what is written by some ancient
      > "Holy Ones" inspired by God.
      >
      > Thus, I would say that Klemp's psychological
      > imbalances is what, also, creates the lack
      > of a moral compass, a distortion of reality,
      > and his anti-social feelings. This is, in part,
      > the cause of Why he is who he is and, often,
      > says and does what he does. Thus, how
      > could HK ever want to improve upon himself
      > or resolve his inner conflicts when he pretends
      > that he is "the Mahanta?" Klemp can't and won't!
      > Narcissists always remain aloof by Acting
      > the part and appearing calm, detached, and
      > always in control! This is Klemp playing his
      > game!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > drubezarne wrote:
      > >
      > Prometheus and others I have two
      > questions for the group.
      > >
      > Do you think Klemp really believes he's
      > the Mahanta, a mythical being made up
      > by Twitchell in 1969? We know there was
      > no such thing as a Mahanta before that.
      >
      > Or, do you think Klemp's not delusional,
      > but is just a greedy person who is trying
      > to milk his congregation for all the money
      > they can give while feeding his ego from
      > their adoration?
      >
      > Regards
      > Liska
      >
      > ETZNAB WROTE:
      > I have to wonder if Harold Klemp, like Darwin Gross,
      > didn't find out certain things after the fact. Things that
      > they didn't find easy to admit, or share with others. If
      > as a result they decided to largely keep it to themself,
      > or between themself and others who knew. Letting all
      > the other members find out on their own because they
      > (Darwin & Harold) didn't want to accept responsibility
      > for "correcting" the membership.
      >
      > There could be other reasons that figure in to this as
      > well, IMO. However, I think they both got "trapped" into
      > taking responsibility for some things of which they were
      > initially unaware.
      >
      > Yes, I do realize this opinion could appear too apol-
      > ogetic. I didn't focus on every single facet, but mainly
      > the one which I believe led to the others.
      >
      > Etznab
      >
      >
      >
      > --------LETTER OF LIGHT OCT. 2008 Q & A #1
      > > > Hello All,
      > > > Here's a question by a 12 year old
      > > > Eckist and Klemp's enlightening
      > > > answer.
      > > >
      > > > Hirman:
      > > > "Dear Mahanta, I have a question,
      > > > and I would LOVE for you to answer
      > > > it.
      > > >
      > > > This is my question: How do I overcome
      > > > my fear of swimming or water with the
      > > > help of the Mahanta?
      > > >
      > > > I have gone for swimming lessons in
      > > > Singapore with THREE different instructors,
      > > > BUT I dropped out because of my FEAR.
      > > >
      > > > Now in New Zealand, I have decided to
      > > > take up swimming lessons again, and
      > > > I will try not to drop out because of my
      > > > fear."
      > > >
      > > > ME: It makes me wonder if Klemp chooses
      > > > questions and stories because certain "key
      > > > words" like "THREE" are used. This EK Youth
      > > > had "three" instructors, but still had the
      > > > fear of water. What happened to the EK
      > > > Principle of the THREES and to the INNER
      > > > GUIDANCE of the Mahanta?
      > > >
      > > > HK: "Dear Hirman, Our fears may look
      > > > foolish to others; theirs, in turn may
      > > > appear foolish to us. So where do they
      > > > come from? And much more important,
      > > > what can you do about them?"
      > > >
      > > > ME: Well, shouldn't the Mahanta be
      > > > running interference for his chelas
      > > > and taking care of their past life karmas?
      > > > Eckists are more "special" and more
      > > > advanced spiritually than normal Non-
      > > > ECKists... right! So, Why are letters to
      > > > the "Mahanta" even needed or necessary?
      > > >
      > > > HK: "Most fears have their origin in a
      > > > past life. For example, a fear of fire
      > > > may signal a long-ago death by fire."
      > > >
      > > > ME: Or, it "may" Not!
      > > >
      > > > HK: "A dislike for neckties, hanging.
      > > > A dread of deep water, death by
      > > > drowning. Such fears are real. Strong
      > > > ones are a big stumbling block, while
      > > > others may only have a small impact
      > > > upon us and are merely a nuisance.
      > > >
      > > > ME: Well, in this case since Hirman
      > > > has already taken swimming lessons
      > > > from "three" different instructors it
      > > > would seem that his fear is "merely
      > > > a nuisance" since he does get into
      > > > the water and attempts to swim.
      > > >
      > > > HK: "All people must face their own
      > > > fears at some time, sooner or later.
      > > > The ECK Masters know that, so THEY
      > > > SELDOM INTERFERE in such matters,
      > > > because it would ROB a chela of an
      > > > important lesson needed to unfold
      > > > spiritually."
      > > >
      > > > ME: All people have been facing their
      > > > fears without the need of priests or
      > > > ECK Masters or religion. True, SPIRIT
      > > > has always been there, but Not just
      > > > for "chelas." Besides, didn't Fubbi
      > > > and Rebazar, supposedly, "interfere"
      > > > with Columbus' voyages due to the
      > > > European need for protein!
      > > >
      > > > HK: "Even so, the Mahanta is standing
      > > > by IF he sees you are SINCERE about
      > > > overcoming your problem."
      > > >
      > > > ME: Another Catch-22? It seems that
      > > > Hirman was "sincere" so IF the Mahanta
      > > > was "standing by" then why didn't HK
      > > > help him before he wrote the letter?
      > > > See, Klemp's bullshit can't stand up
      > > > to logical thinking.
      > > >
      > > > HK: What kind of help does he offer?
      > > >
      > > > It can be many kinds, such as encouragement
      > > > or providing a DREAM experience that
      > > > saves wear and tear on your physical
      > > > body. You MAY expect to receive TIPS
      > > > and advice too. SO STAY ALERT.
      > > >
      > > > At bedtime, open your heart to love.
      > > > It is your passkey to the Master. Then
      > > > go to sleep peacefully."
      > > >
      > > > ME: Let's not forget that HK's "advice"
      > > > and instructions are for a 12 year old.
      > > >
      > > > So, just Dream your fears away or
      > > > stay alert for "tips," and "advice" and
      > > > know that they came from the Mahanta
      > > > because who else would it come from?
      > > >
      > > > IF the "advice" was bad or didn't work then
      > > > it's obvious that it didn't come from the
      > > > Mahanta right? And IF the "tip" was misread
      > > > or misinterpreted then that was the chela's
      > > > fault and not the Mahanta's right? BUT IF
      > > > everything turns out fine then that was
      > > > because of the Mahanta and Not the chela
      > > > right? That sounds like a win/win for Klemp
      > > > doesn't it!
      > > >
      > > > But, since Hirman is an EK card carrying member
      > > > in good standing then why does he need to
      > > > write a letter to be heard by his Mahanta the
      > > > "Inner Master." I don't believe that the fault is
      > > > with the chela because this happens all of the
      > > > time! Therefore, the fault has to be with Klemp
      > > > and with the lies and false claims being made.
      > > > It's bait and switch... a con... a scam... with
      > > > holier than thou attitudes and claims while
      > > > Eckists pay for services that they don't receive!
      > > >
      > > > Klemp (the Mahanta) owes his chelas for the
      > > > time and money they have invested! But if HK
      > > > can't deliver and pay chelas back NOW, in this
      > > > lifetime, with his promises of giving them
      > > > "protection" and "healing" etc. then how can
      > > > he deliver on any other promises after this life?
      > > >
      > > > So, did Klemp really answer the Question from
      > > > this EK Youth? Go back and reread it. The kid is
      > > > saying that he'd really "love" for Klemp to answer
      > > > his question. I guess the kid is use to adults Not
      > > > answering his questions directly and talking around
      > > > the subject... as Klemp does with his adult chelas
      > > > too! Maybe giving more attention to chelas is not
      > > > really worth the effort anymore. Klemp, it seems,
      > > > has gotten much more lazy over the past ten to
      > > > fifteen years. I wonder why?
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > >
      >
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