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Admissions of Fictions

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  • D.R.D.
    About the SOUTRRAVELER post on the old TS Bulletin Board, to me it confirmed my suspicions about the admissions of certain fictions. That the author attended
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 5, 2008
      About the SOUTRRAVELER post on
      the old TS Bulletin Board, to me
      it confirmed my suspicions about
      the admissions of certain fictions.

      That the author attended in 1975
      an Eckankar seminar, that tells me
      they were privy to things before the
      David lane manuscript and before the
      divorce announcement (1978?)of Gail
      and Darwin.

      I don't believe David wrote his
      term paper before 1977. I could be
      wrong. What I know is that Darwin
      Gross was the spiritual leader of
      Eckankar when it came out.

      Don't you think that Darwin - as
      many of us have - could "read the
      writing on the wall"?

      This was the 70s. And if I'm not
      mistaken, before the Internet.

      Even without computers and the
      Internet though, Darwin must have
      seen it in black and white. So to

      It's the timing that leads me to
      suspect that something was up then,
      because Darwin was already looking
      to surrender the L.E.M. position by

      Surrendering that position meant
      surrendering the responsibility for
      any plagiarism too, IMO.

      What did Harold Klemp come out
      and say back in 1984 after having
      time to look over Paul Twitchell's
      old files? Do you imagine Harold
      found anything that "shocked" him?
      Judging by a whole talk devoted to
      the history of Paul Twitchell, I do.
      I'm not saying I totally agree with
      Harold's version of the story, or
      that I would have told it like he

      What I'm finding though, is that
      it appears people have left Eckankar
      because they either couldn't swallow
      some of the things they didn't know
      about and/or they couldn't live with
      the idea they might be responsible
      for deceiving people, etc. They had
      a conscience.

      I'm speculating (I have to say
      it that way to be fair), but I do
      imagine that things were different
      many years ago. And I suspect that
      people knew about the things many
      are just finding out now. Not every-
      one, but those who did know about
      certain "created fictions", I think
      they were able to justify and live
      with it. I got this impression from
      S.T.'s post too.

      Here is the problem, as I see it.
      There were those who probably came
      into Eckankar years later and inter-
      preted certain fictions as literally
      true. Or, as literal fact. And those
      same people who found out otherwise -
      some even decades later - were liter-
      ally shocked!

      When the book Those Wonderful Eck
      Masters came out, I rather saw it as
      a "slap in the face", so to speak. It
      was like "rubbing salt in the wound".
      (The reason I have not bought a copy
      to this day.) That is my opinion, or
      what was my own personal experience.

      Sometimes I get the impression the
      people who know about the fictions in
      religions - I get the impression they
      want to tell me it's not my place to
      decide when and where anybody gets to
      look at such secret archives. But this
      is what I imagine is the case with the
      Vactican and Government archives also,
      and not just the history of the path
      (religion) to which I belong.

      In this case, I fear the longer
      certain information is witheld, the
      greater will be the "shock" when the
      truth finally comes out! (The more
      people who will be hurt, too.)

      Kinda like what is happening in
      the world today. Where the lives of
      millions are affected by the actions
      of a relative few. And some of whose
      actions the major majority haven't a

      Why did the mortage industry and
      the credit industry take a big shock?
      How about "fake" money? How about the
      belief in certain fictions that were
      not "real" to begin with?

      Is it always the best decision to
      believe in certain fictions? This is
      all I am saying, that sometimes there
      needs to be admissions of fictions so
      that people can know the difference,
      between what is true and what is not.

      Three credit card applications I
      get in the mail a week - on average.
      This has been going on a long, long
      time. Do you think somebody wants me
      to invest in fiction? Do you think
      they want me to take some (pay them)
      some interest? Sure they do! It's a
      money-making scheme!

      My shredder and garbage can are
      the more interested.

    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab and All, I was trying to think back as to when I first started to hear the rumors about various events such as Gail and Darwin being divorced and
      Message 2 of 2 , Oct 6, 2008
        Hello Etznab and All,
        I was trying to think back as
        to when I first started to hear
        the rumors about various events
        such as Gail and Darwin being
        divorced and the David Lane

        For me, WHEN it happened isn't
        as important as WHAT happened.
        But Not with them, with me! My
        state-of-mind back then was
        that of a loyal, trusting, and blind
        follower of ECK. This mindset
        caused me to disregard "outer"
        turmoil and/or the mentioning of
        it as rumors and gossip coming
        from the KAL. This was, also, seen
        as a "test" and, therefore, I needed
        to avoid Kal's traps in order to make
        spiritual progress. Rationalizing
        and distorting one's reality via
        self-hypnosis, magical thinking,
        and pretending "as if" were needed
        in order to obtain those initiations
        that led to Higher Consciousness,
        or so we were told.

        Yes, there were/are a lot of contradictions
        in ECK speak, but these are explained
        away as paradoxes. Therefore, when PT,
        in the Shariyat, says one thing and then
        contradicts himself later this is a paradox
        or riddle. It's to be solved in contemplation,
        or when one receives that next initiation,
        or with the one after that, or the one after
        that, or..... and so it goes for years and years.
        Therefore, when Darwin got booted this
        was sold to us as a cleansing by the ECK
        versus a cleansing by the Klempster.

        However, we were also told (early on) by
        Klemp that the "outer" negative words and
        actions of some H.I.s were Not what it seemed
        to be. On the "inner" these Souls were different...
        just as you were/are. Therefore, one is Not
        to judge them! Except, Klemp did judge
        Darwin! Oops, another paradox!

        [Then came the Internet and more access
        to information for all.]

        Klemp, after turning a blind eye and a deaf
        ear to the Negative behaviours of many of his
        EK Leaders, over 20 years, finally writes
        a H.I. Leadership Manual and requires classes
        (book discussions) to insure that everyone
        got the message. But of course that didn't
        happen either... the damage had been done.

        Even though we were told to disregard their
        negative words and behaviours I just couldn't
        overlook it. I knew that these H.I.s weren't
        "evolved" Souls. Words and Actions do have
        value and do indicate one's level of or lack
        of consciousness, ethics, and morals, as well
        as, psychological and other disorders.

        But, Why are there Negative H.I.'s to begin
        with? If Klemp is what he claims then Why
        does he have to write Leadership books for
        both Lower and H.I.s to instruct them on
        proper behaviour? Why isn't there the "INNER"
        communication or the "higher" consciousness
        that came with their "higher" initiations?

        The real question comes back to Klemp's
        Leadership and "Powers" Instead of blaming
        these H.I.'s. Why did these H.I.'s keep getting
        initiations and higher positions? Klemp shifts
        blame by making it seem like it's all the chela's
        fault while the Master takes NO Responsibility!

        Anyway, I was seeing this more and more,
        but just wasn't able to (or unwilling to) put
        it together. And, Klemp's one dimensional
        simple-minded stories really bothered me
        at times. Plus, I knew, for a fact, that some
        of those EK stories, being repeated by Klemp,
        had been embellished. I knew the original
        authors! Still, the stories weren't anymore
        special than what happens to Non-ECKists!

        So, trying to believe in Klemp and his empty
        promises became more and more of a job,
        especially, when initiations were "slowed
        down" and (basically) capped off at the 7th!
        One just had to accept so much and throw
        the rest out... just like with Christianity or
        Judaism or any other religion!

        Except, this isn't what I wanted, or thought
        I'd signed up for, when I first joined Eckankar...
        I wanted a real Spiritual Path and NOT EK Worship
        Services or to become a Missionary and Servant
        and having to follow a bunch of spoken and
        unspoken rules and Guidelines presented by
        those with a higher initiation rank, but a lower
        consciousness! And many were so vain and full
        of themselves! This was/is Bullshit!

        Therefore, when "Confessions of a God Seeker"
        came out I was ready to read it. I wasn't afraid
        to read the book because I knew of and had
        spoken to Ford Johnson at EK Seminars, and
        the book was recommended, at that time, by
        another H.I. What's funny is that another 7th,
        months earlier, mentioned that she had email
        transcripts of Ford's manuscript. For some reason
        I didn't ask to see it or to have a copy made
        or anything. I was ready to hear the Truth, but
        Not at that time it seems! It's interesting how
        SPIRIT works isn't it! And, I must admit it took
        me a long time to absorb, contemplate
        upon, and verify the information in the book.
        However, I never did agree with or finish the
        last part of the book (I've heard this from others
        as well).

        Of course, today, ECKists have heard a lot of
        rumors about Ford's book and have seen a lot
        of people leave Eckankar after reading it. This
        scares them. Does it contain "Black Magic" that
        would cause them to reject Eckankar too! And,
        Why should one expose themselves to negativity
        when it's avoidable! Therefore, just keep your
        head in the sand, ignore it, and the danger
        of discovering the Truth will go away.

        Are there some details in the book that were
        overlooked and were there some "t's" needing
        crossed and some "i's" needing dotted... Yes!
        Still, I verified Ford's claims with "The Path of
        the Masters" and other materials and found
        the context of information to be Truthful.

        What it finally came down to is the "pieces of
        the puzzle" coming together for me. I was now
        able to "connect the dots" and understood Why
        so much in Eckankar didn't make sense for me!

        It wasn't me it was them! They lied! This is Why
        I wasn't having the "inner experiences!" And
        it's Why the other promises like, the "Protection"
        and "Healing" by the Mahanta wasn't fulfilled!
        It takes more than Faith and Belief and Empty
        Promises... there has to be some Reality and
        Truth! Also, the REAL connections that we do
        have with SPIRIT is there for anyone regardless
        of religious belief. No Middleman/Mahanta or
        membership money is needed!

        Really, Why does an All Loving and Compassionate
        Master (Klemp) require MONEY for his Chelas'
        to MAINTAIN their Spiritual standing? Why Not
        overlook the "outer" and focus on the "inner?"
        Wouldn't a True "Spiritual" (Eck) Master overlook
        the money or other outer membership requirements?

        Sure! Except you don't need one of those either!
        No strings attached should apply to all!

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