Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Soultraveler 2

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, When rereading what this person said shows me that he contradicted himself and made his own speculations and assumptions. In any case I don t
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 5, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello All,
      When rereading what this person said
      shows me that he contradicted himself
      and made his own speculations and
      assumptions. In any case I don't believe
      that Gail was as innocent as she is portrayed.

      Gail was the one that encouraged Paul
      to use his "researched" materials to start
      a religion. She, also, betrayed Paul when
      she had an affair with Darwin. After she
      divorced Darwin she made sure that she
      was paid for the copyrighted EK works
      that Paul had gathered and written. Then
      she marries a rich guy and moves to Palm
      Springs. After he dies she then marries
      another wealthy man! BTW- Darwin was
      a womanizer before, during, and after
      his marriage to Gail. And we can't say
      much for Klemp or Joan either can we!

      What's really funny is that Marman got
      Gail to make a recommendation for his
      book on PT. And Marman also got the
      scifi writer Brad Steiger to endorse his
      book when Steiger lied about his claims
      regarding Twitchell contained within
      "In My Soul I Am Free." It makes one
      wonder which Eckankar that Marman
      is writing about when former ECKists
      (Patti Simpson too) are helping him to
      promote this book! Some people will
      do anything for money and fame!

      Prometheus

      "...Darwin found out the truth about Paul
      and his teachings. He discovered the device
      that he as the Mahanta was created from.
      This was Darwin's betrayal. His Master was
      no longer the great Paul who had always
      been there for him. Now he knew the truth!.

      Darwin began to realize how the mind works
      with regard to creating him as the Godman,
      all the things that you read in the earlier
      chapters were now becoming apparent to
      Darwin. This was the reason for Gail and
      him breaking up. Darwin could not handle
      that he was a normal person and not the
      GODMAN that we had made him out to be.

      To go into all the problems that this
      raised with him and Gail would be crazy,
      and speculation.

      The "truth," is ultimately what destroyed
      their relationship.

      Now I could say that Darwin because of
      this betrayal went off the deep end and
      started chasing women, drinking, having
      emotional outbursts, doing money deals,
      and not acting like the GODMAN that he
      thought he was,

      BUT! well I did say that didn't I,

      this was because it did happen
      almost just like that.

      The politics of Eck began to surface now,
      and the chelas were privy to a lot of what
      was going on mostly in rumors and so forth.

      The teaching was the same but now the
      delivery was changing. [....] I feel that
      the shock of what Paul had done was
      more than he could handle. [....]"


      drubezarne wrote:
      >
      > It looks like the same person that posted
      the background about Eckankar also had some
      insights on the life of Twitchell. Here's the link...
      >
      http://thetruth-seeker.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1400
      >
      > In this post, the writer attempts to justify
      Twitchell's lies by saying it was the right thing
      to do because they bring out truth. In essence,
      the author says that it's OK to lie and deceive
      people in order to help them get spiritual
      enlightenment. The trouble with that argument
      is that instead of bringing enlightenment,
      Twitchell has implanted false ideas and an
      idealism with no basis in truth. As a result,
      most people in Eckankar live in a world of
      illusion and not realization. They strive after
      initiations which only promote vanity, they
      toil for an organization which only creates
      attachment, they believe in mythical Eck
      Masters which create more attachments to
      personalities, and they attempt to serve and
      place their attention on a made-up Mahanta
      which takes them further from the I AM.
      >
      > Remember the old Eckankar cliche' that
      says when you have to make a decision, try
      to put yourself in the Master's shoes and think
      about what the Mahanta would do? When people
      try to emulate an ideal in the form of the current
      Master, they often take on both the positive and
      negative traits of that leader. Many of us have
      seen some of Klemp's angry and vain pronouncements.
      His followers may think this is right and thus
      we see how so many eckists become judgmental,
      are easy to anger when someone questions their
      religion, and/or become vain due to their elitist
      path and fake initiations.
      >
      Regards
      Liska
    • etznab@aol.com
      Do you imagine there were other people involved in this disservice that might have made it easier for certain things to happen? I don t see Paul having the
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 5, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Do you imagine there were other people
        involved in this "disservice" that might
        have made it easier for certain things to
        happen?

        I don't see Paul having the same style
        in the later years as in the beginning.
        (By beginning I mean Letters to Gail,
        Vol. One).

        Etznab

        -----Original Message-----
        From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 12:12 pm
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Soultraveler



        Etznab, thanks for that insightful post by Soultraveler on The Truth

        Seeker site. I agree with the writer except for the part about Paul

        just wanting to bring the Light and Sound to the world. The ends don't

        always justify the means. By plagiarizing, making up things like Eck

        Masters, and putting himself between God and Soul as the Mahanta, Paul

        did a great disservice to all of us.



        Putting himself at the head of his made up religion showed his selfish

        motives and dishonest nature. Think of what he could have done if he

        had only been honest, gave credit to other authors, and only referred

        to himself as a writer. Instead, he lied and misrepresented himself -

        all for money and power. In essence, he laid the foundation for a

        pernicious corrupting cult.



        Regards

        Liska



        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "D.R.D."

        <etznab@...> wrote:

        >

        >

        >=2
        0 Do any of you remember Soultraveler

        > from the old TS BB?

        >

        > I came across a couple posts today

        > that appeared most interesting to me.

        >

        > This poster appeared to be someone

        > who was there and knew a number of the

        > earlier members of Eckankar. I got the

        > distinct impression they had a lot of

        > inside information & decided to share

        > it on TheTruth-Seeker.

        >

        > What I found most amazing were the

        > events of Eckankar history described.

        >

        > Most of what I have shared from my

        > own research had to be qualified as

        > assumptions, or suspicions illustrated

        > in the form of questions. To be honest

        > I had to put it this way because I was

        > not a part of Eckankar in the 60s and

        > 70's. Not even the early 80s. However,

        > I just saw much of what I suspected &

        > would have guessed about the History

        > of Eckankar. I saw it shared by some-

        > one who was there and had spoken with

        > people who were there in the formative

        > years of Eckankar.

        >

        > I would just like to add that my own

        > research concurs with much of what got

        > illustrated by Soultraveler in the TS

        > post here:

        >

        >
        http://thetruth-seeker.com/vanil
        laforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1421

        >

        > It was not until 1987 when I came

        > to join Eckankar. I had to look at &

        > try to piece together what a number

        > of people in Eckankar already knew -

        > and for whatever reasons didn't want

        > to talk much about it.

        >

        > For some time now I've felt that a

        > lot more things would make sense if I

        > only had the missing history. And, IMO,

        > that post by Soultraveler shared a lot

        > in the way of missing history for some-

        > one like myself who had not a way to

        > verify what even my own investigations

        > were pointing to. Soultraveler writes:

        >

        > "[....] Truth Destroyed" With Eckankar

        > now down-spiraling into a psychic hole,

        > things could only get worse, which they

        > did. Gail after the divorce from Darwin,

        > knew that the cat was out of the bag. It

        > would only be a matter of time before all

        > the fabrications and creativity of Paul's

        > would be exposed. Once this was done she

        > would be drawn into the picture and her

        > life would be hell. Gail figured out a

        > way to extricate herself from Eckankar.

        > She even put together a plan to gain from

        > Paul's old letters, drafts, and memoirs.

        > I can't say it was blackmail, but it

        =0
        A> certainly was a mutually agreed upon

        > transaction between Eck Org and Gail.

        > It was important to have these documents

        > placed where they could do no damage. A

        > deal was struck and Gail in her quiet way

        > left with a 1/2 million dollars. Eckankar

        > now could suppress the information that

        > Paul left in Gail's hands. Gail re-married

        > to a wealthy gentlemen and lives down south

        > in California near her twin sister. On the

        > surface it looks like Gail really suckered

        > everyone and made out very well. But the

        > intentions of Gail in the beginning were

        > not one of deceit. She was dragged into

        > the scenario and accepted and justified

        > what Paul was doing mainly because of her

        > lack of judgment or foresight. Once it

        > started going bad, she had already succ-

        > umbed to the fear and negative nature

        > that had been created deep down inside

        > of her. Eckankar Organization wanted her

        > out of the picture and they figured out

        > a way to get their goals achieved. [....]"

        >

        > *********

        >

        > Some of that quote might appear apol-

        > ogetic, but in context to the entire post

        > I see it a little differently.

        > Another quote from that very long post:

        >

        > ""[....] When Gail and Darwi
        n announced

        > their divorce it was like someone had hit

        > you in the chest Hard!. How could this

        > happen? from this event questions began

        > to surface, the downfall of Eck was just

        > starting to raise its ugly head. What

        > really happened is quite simple, Darwin

        > found out the truth about Paul and his

        > teachings. He discovered the device that

        > he as the Mahanta was created from. This

        > was Darwin's betrayal. His Master was no

        > longer the great Paul who had always been

        > there for him. Now he knew the truth!.

        > Darwin began to realize how the mind works

        > with regard to creating him as the Godman,

        > all the things that you read in the earlier

        > chapters were now becoming apparent to

        > Darwin. This was the reason for Gail and

        > him breaking up. Darwin could not handle

        > that he was a normal person and not the

        > GODMAN that we had made him out to be.

        > To go into all the problems that this

        > raised with him and Gail would be crazy,

        > and speculation. The "truth," is ultim-

        > ately what destroyed their relationship.

        > Now I could say that Darwin because of

        > this betrayal went off the deep end and

        > started chasing women, drinking, having

        > emotional outbursts, doing money deals,

        > and not acting like
        the GODMAN that he

        > thought he was, BUT! well I did say that

        > didn't I, this was because it did happen

        > almost just like that. The politics of

        > Eck began to surface now, and the chelas

        > were privy to a lot of what was going on

        > mostly in rumors and so forth. The

        > teaching was the same but now the del-

        > ivery was changing. [....] I feel that

        > the shock of what Paul had done was more

        > than he could handle. [....]"

        >

        >
        http://thetruth-seeker.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1421

        >

        > I would mostly have to concur with

        > those opinions. I would also add that

        > "shock" and it's aftermath was not only

        > felt by Darwin. I suspect that Harold

        > Klemp and other members have felt some

        > of that "shock" as well!

        >

        > In fact, this type of "shock" is

        > not hard to find, IMO. I see it when

        > pointing at Eckankar history - the

        > truth - with other members who can't

        > handle the truth. Who go out of their

        > ways to avoid it at all costs. This

        > is not gonna go on forever, IMO. And

        > I suspect there is a very good chance

        > that history is about to repeat itself.

        > All because people didn't know how to

        > "handle" the truth.

        >

        > Etznab0D

        >
      • etznab@aol.com
        Liska, There was some interesting history in those two posts. I, like yourself, didn t agree with all of the writer s assessments. It sounded like the writer
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 5, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Liska,

          There was some interesting history in those
          two posts. I, like yourself, didn't agree with all
          of the writer's assessments.

          It sounded like the writer was from the "old
          school" which, IMO, doesn't have the same
          perspective as compared with a lot of newer
          members (people who find Eckankar today).

          What caught my attention was the "shock"
          caused from finding out about some of those
          fictions years after the fact. How it impacted
          the leader of Eckankar (at the time) himself,
          if you believe some of what the post shared.

          I just wrote about this "shock" factor over
          on A.R.E. (at bottom of the "Popular Terms"
          thread). So far, I don't know if anybody there
          wants to discuss this topic.

          Etznab



          -----Original Message-----
          From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 1:12 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Soultraveler Part 2



          It looks like the same person that posted the background about

          Eckankar also had some insights on the life of Twitchell. Here's the

          link...



          http://thetruth-seeker.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1400



          In this post, the writer attempts to justify Twitchell's lies by

          saying it was the right thing to do because they bring out truth. In

          essence, the author says that it's OK to lie and deceive people in

          order to help them get spiritual enlightenment
          . The trouble with that

          argument is that instead of bringing enlightenment, Twitchell has

          implanted false ideas and an idealism with no basis in truth. As a

          result, most people in Eckankar live in a world of illusion and not

          realization. They strive after initiations which only promote vanity,

          they toil for an organization which only creates attachment, they

          believe in mythical Eck Masters which create more attachments to

          personalities, and they attempt to serve and place their attention on

          a made-up Mahanta which takes them further from the I AM.



          Remember the old Eckankar cliche' that says when you have to make a

          decision, try to put yourself in the Master's shoes and think about

          what the Mahanta would do. When people try to emulate an ideal in the

          form of the current Master, they often take on both the positive and

          negative traits of that leader. Many of us have seen some of Klemp's

          angry and vain pronouncements. His followers may think this is right

          and thus we see how so many eckists become judgmental, are easy to

          anger when someone questions their religion, and/or become vain due to

          their elitist path and fake initiations.



          Regards

          Liska













          0D
        • etznab@aol.com
          Prometheus, Your last paragraph contained some things (and people) that I wonder about too. Etznab ... From: prometheus_973 To:
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 5, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Prometheus,

            Your last paragraph contained some things
            (and people) that I wonder about too.

            Etznab

            -----Original Message-----
            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 5:17 pm
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Soultraveler 2



            Hello All,

            When rereading what this person said

            shows me that he contradicted himself

            and made his own speculations and

            assumptions. In any case I don't believe

            that Gail was as innocent as she is portrayed.



            Gail was the one that encouraged Paul

            to use his "researched" materials to start

            a religion. She, also, betrayed Paul when

            she had an affair with Darwin. After she

            divorced Darwin she made sure that she

            was paid for the copyrighted EK works

            that Paul had gathered and written. Then

            she marries a rich guy and moves to Palm

            Springs. After he dies she then marries

            another wealthy man! BTW- Darwin was

            a womanizer before, during, and after

            his marriage to Gail. And we can't say

            much for Klemp or Joan either can we!



            What's really funny is that Marman got

            Gail to make a recommendation for his

            book on PT. And Marman also got the

            scifi writer Brad Steiger to endorse his

            book when Steiger lied about his claims

            regarding Twitchell contained within

            "In My Soul I Am Free." It makes one0D

            wonder which Eckankar that Marman

            is writing about when former ECKists

            (Patti Simpson too) are helping him to

            promote this book! Some people will

            do anything for money and fame!



            Prometheus



            "...Darwin found out the truth about Paul

            and his teachings. He discovered the device

            that he as the Mahanta was created from.

            This was Darwin's betrayal. His Master was

            no longer the great Paul who had always

            been there for him. Now he knew the truth!.



            Darwin began to realize how the mind works

            with regard to creating him as the Godman,

            all the things that you read in the earlier

            chapters were now becoming apparent to

            Darwin. This was the reason for Gail and

            him breaking up. Darwin could not handle

            that he was a normal person and not the

            GODMAN that we had made him out to be.



            To go into all the problems that this

            raised with him and Gail would be crazy,

            and speculation.



            The "truth," is ultimately what destroyed

            their relationship.



            Now I could say that Darwin because of

            this betrayal went off the deep end and

            started chasing women, drinking, having

            emotional outbursts, doing money deals,

            and not acting like the GODMAN that he

            thought he was,



            BUT! well I did say that didn't I,



            this was because it did happen
            =0
            D
            almost just like that.



            The politics of Eck began to surface now,

            and the chelas were privy to a lot of what

            was going on mostly in rumors and so forth.



            The teaching was the same but now the

            delivery was changing. [....] I feel that

            the shock of what Paul had done was

            more than he could handle. [....]"



            drubezarne wrote:

            >

            > It looks like the same person that posted

            the background about Eckankar also had some

            insights on the life of Twitchell. Here's the link...

            >

            http://thetruth-seeker.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1400

            >

            > In this post, the writer attempts to justify

            Twitchell's lies by saying it was the right thing

            to do because they bring out truth. In essence,

            the author says that it's OK to lie and deceive

            people in order to help them get spiritual

            enlightenment. The trouble with that argument

            is that instead of bringing enlightenment,

            Twitchell has implanted false ideas and an

            idealism with no basis in truth. As a result,

            most people in Eckankar live in a world of

            illusion and not realization. They strive after

            initiations which only promote vanity, they

            toil for an organization which only creates

            attachment, they believe in mythical Eck

            Masters which create more attachments to

            personalities, and they attempt to serve and

            place their at
            tention on a made-up Mahanta

            which takes them further from the I AM.

            >

            > Remember the old Eckankar cliche' that

            says when you have to make a decision, try

            to put yourself in the Master's shoes and think

            about what the Mahanta would do? When people

            try to emulate an ideal in the form of the current

            Master, they often take on both the positive and

            negative traits of that leader. Many of us have

            seen some of Klemp's angry and vain pronouncements.

            His followers may think this is right and thus

            we see how so many eckists become judgmental,

            are easy to anger when someone questions their

            religion, and/or become vain due to their elitist

            path and fake initiations.

            >

            Regards

            Liska
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.