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Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot the Messenger!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Liz and Liska, Say Liska, what s this soul forum? Is it like the official/unofficial EK sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat? Who are the ones standing upon
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
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      Hi Liz and Liska,
      Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"
      Is it like the official/unofficial EK
      sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?
      Who are the ones standing upon the
      pedestals over there? Are they narrow
      minded, narcissistic, delusional, and
      beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat
      and Chela Chat?

      In the below comments you mentioned
      about ECKists renting a 200 person hall
      in CA. and that only three newcomers
      showed up. It doesn't sound like the local
      EK chelas dragged in enough friends and
      family members! LOL!

      Of course, after several years of these EK
      events how many friends and relatives are
      left that are willing to go to these ECKie
      events and waste their time and money.
      These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...
      invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive
      over/down/up to California during the
      week of the EK event and then sucker
      them into attending "with you." Timing is
      everything!

      Years ago I read and heard of where
      one Satsang group in Miami was getting
      some very high turnouts at EK events.
      Of course, some of the numbers of "new
      people" were really repeats and numbers
      were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but
      the total number for a one year period
      was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What
      was even more incredible was that ONLY
      3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK
      Members from this incredibly large turnout
      and effort!

      Then again, I'm certain that the local EK
      Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that
      they could present these high numbers
      to the ESC. And, it could be that this is
      the real reason (finally after all these years)
      that there is now less effort being made
      to have Regional EK Seminars and other
      unrewarding expenditures of local EK
      (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon
      the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars
      and mailings. It seems to take awhile for
      things to trickle down to the troops in
      the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"
      communication of a "higher" consciousness
      (Klemp)! What a joke!

      Still, there is a suggested need for the
      Lower Plane "outer" work in order to
      receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.
      Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really
      just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied
      and distracted from thinking and asking
      questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense
      of purpose, and to make them feel needed
      by feeling good about themselves. It's also
      a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar
      has become more like a self-help group.
      It helps to teach chelas public speaking
      skills and, thus, self confidence (like
      Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries
      saving people (Souls), but they also become
      more pious and deluded.

      Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an
      attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well
      as, a drug that one needs to use and lean
      upon... forever!

      Prometheus

      Liska wrote:

      As for clues to how Eckankar is
      doing one can judge by the turn
      out at local events. For one thing,
      there are no youth except for a few
      that were brought up in eckankar
      families.

      LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.
      I never met other eckist youth in school.
      I felt embarrassed to even share the
      teachings with my friends.... Why would
      any youth feel comfortable doing that,
      the other kids would think we were strange.
      And to be honest, when I did share the religion
      our family belonged to with friends, they told
      me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids
      now a days are not that much different from
      when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)
      Most youth that attend seminars, local events
      etc, do so because their parents have hauled
      them to the events and they enjoy hanging out
      with kids their own age. When I was attending
      the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby
      sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted
      to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"
      entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call
      it brainwashing?

      LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar
      conversation last night. She is agnostic and
      I tend to lean that way now after leaving the
      path. We believe something created "all this"
      but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like
      Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,
      as I did in school, including mythology, and other
      cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,
      dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult
      for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because
      of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission
      coming from me..... So why did I stay for some
      many years? LOL



      Liska wrote:
      When people try to hold events such as intro
      talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from
      California told a story on soul forum about
      renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro
      talk. His group advertised in the papers, on
      the radio, and put up posters all over the place.
      When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.

      LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these
      halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people
      if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!

      Liska wrote:
      H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when
      they couldn't get enough new People to come
      to their events, the main office said there was
      Something wrong with the way they were presenting
      the message.

      LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following
      the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's
      pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is
      eckankar that people are not interested in,
      no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....



      Liska wrote:
      >They even had a long drawn out discussion
      on soul forum trying to figure out why young
      people aren't interested in Eckankar.

      LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents
      are more interested in their own spiritual growth,
      and trying to break the family karmic bond....
      At least that was how it was in my family!

      Liska wrote:
      The low turnout at events, no youth,
      increased charges for audio and
      video broadcasts of Klemp, and the
      heavy handed advertising for the
      World Wide are all indicators that
      finances aren't what they used to be.

      LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't
      what it used to be either! But you won't
      be able to convince some of those eckist
      that won't take off their rose colored glasses,
      or should I say blue? ;-)

      No Love in Eck,
      Liz
    • drubezarne
      Prometheus For those who haven t heard about soul forum, it s run by Doug Marman, Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with Doug to
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
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        Prometheus

        For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug Marman,
        Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with
        Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a
        conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off
        unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum. Many
        feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which only
        allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.

        Regards
        Liska


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Liz and Liska,
        > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"
        > Is it like the official/unofficial EK
        > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?
        > Who are the ones standing upon the
        > pedestals over there? Are they narrow
        > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and
        > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat
        > and Chela Chat?
        >
        > In the below comments you mentioned
        > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall
        > in CA. and that only three newcomers
        > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local
        > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and
        > family members! LOL!
        >
        > Of course, after several years of these EK
        > events how many friends and relatives are
        > left that are willing to go to these ECKie
        > events and waste their time and money.
        > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...
        > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive
        > over/down/up to California during the
        > week of the EK event and then sucker
        > them into attending "with you." Timing is
        > everything!
        >
        > Years ago I read and heard of where
        > one Satsang group in Miami was getting
        > some very high turnouts at EK events.
        > Of course, some of the numbers of "new
        > people" were really repeats and numbers
        > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but
        > the total number for a one year period
        > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What
        > was even more incredible was that ONLY
        > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK
        > Members from this incredibly large turnout
        > and effort!
        >
        > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK
        > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that
        > they could present these high numbers
        > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is
        > the real reason (finally after all these years)
        > that there is now less effort being made
        > to have Regional EK Seminars and other
        > unrewarding expenditures of local EK
        > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon
        > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars
        > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for
        > things to trickle down to the troops in
        > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"
        > communication of a "higher" consciousness
        > (Klemp)! What a joke!
        >
        > Still, there is a suggested need for the
        > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to
        > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.
        > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really
        > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied
        > and distracted from thinking and asking
        > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense
        > of purpose, and to make them feel needed
        > by feeling good about themselves. It's also
        > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar
        > has become more like a self-help group.
        > It helps to teach chelas public speaking
        > skills and, thus, self confidence (like
        > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries
        > saving people (Souls), but they also become
        > more pious and deluded.
        >
        > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an
        > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well
        > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean
        > upon... forever!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > Liska wrote:
        >
        > As for clues to how Eckankar is
        > doing one can judge by the turn
        > out at local events. For one thing,
        > there are no youth except for a few
        > that were brought up in eckankar
        > families.
        >
        > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.
        > I never met other eckist youth in school.
        > I felt embarrassed to even share the
        > teachings with my friends.... Why would
        > any youth feel comfortable doing that,
        > the other kids would think we were strange.
        > And to be honest, when I did share the religion
        > our family belonged to with friends, they told
        > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids
        > now a days are not that much different from
        > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)
        > Most youth that attend seminars, local events
        > etc, do so because their parents have hauled
        > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out
        > with kids their own age. When I was attending
        > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby
        > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted
        > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"
        > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call
        > it brainwashing?
        >
        > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar
        > conversation last night. She is agnostic and
        > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the
        > path. We believe something created "all this"
        > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like
        > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,
        > as I did in school, including mythology, and other
        > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,
        > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult
        > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because
        > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission
        > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some
        > many years? LOL
        >
        >
        >
        > Liska wrote:
        > When people try to hold events such as intro
        > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from
        > California told a story on soul forum about
        > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro
        > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on
        > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.
        > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.
        >
        > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these
        > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people
        > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!
        >
        > Liska wrote:
        > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when
        > they couldn't get enough new People to come
        > to their events, the main office said there was
        > Something wrong with the way they were presenting
        > the message.
        >
        > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following
        > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's
        > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is
        > eckankar that people are not interested in,
        > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....
        >
        >
        >
        > Liska wrote:
        > >They even had a long drawn out discussion
        > on soul forum trying to figure out why young
        > people aren't interested in Eckankar.
        >
        > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents
        > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,
        > and trying to break the family karmic bond....
        > At least that was how it was in my family!
        >
        > Liska wrote:
        > The low turnout at events, no youth,
        > increased charges for audio and
        > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the
        > heavy handed advertising for the
        > World Wide are all indicators that
        > finances aren't what they used to be.
        >
        > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't
        > what it used to be either! But you won't
        > be able to convince some of those eckist
        > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,
        > or should I say blue? ;-)
        >
        > No Love in Eck,
        > Liz
        >
      • etznab@aol.com
        Is that the same as http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/ or another site altogether? Etznab ... From: drubezarne To:
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Is that the same as

          http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/

          or another site altogether?

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 4:57 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot
          the Messenger!



          Prometheus



          For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug Marman,

          Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with

          Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a

          conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off

          unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum. Many

          feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which only

          allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.



          Regards

          Liska



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"

          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

          >

          > Hi Liz and Liska,

          > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"

          > Is it like the official/unofficial EK

          > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?

          > Who are the ones standing upon the

          > pedestals over there? Are they narrow

          > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and

          > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat

          > and Chela Chat?

          >

          > In the below comments you mentioned

          > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall

          > in CA. and that only three newcomers

          > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local

          > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and

          > family members! LOL!

          >

          > Of course, after several years of these EK

          > events how many friends and relatives are

          > left that are willing to go to these ECKie

          > events and waste their time and money.

          > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...

          > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive

          > over/down/up to California during the

          > week of the EK event and then sucker

          > them into attending "with you." Timing is

          > everything!

          >

          > Years ago I read and heard of where

          > one Satsang group in Miami was getting

          > some very high turnouts at EK events.

          > Of course, some of the numbers of "new

          > people" were really repeats and numbers

          > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but

          > the total number for a one year period

          > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What

          > was even more incredible was that ONLY

          > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK

          > Members from this incredibly large turnout

          > and effort!

          >

          > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK

          > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that

          > they could present these high numbers

          > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is

          > the real reason (finally after all these years)

          > that there is now less effort being made

          > to have Regional EK Seminars and other

          > unrewarding expenditures of local EK

          > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon

          > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars

          > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for

          > things to trickle down to the troops in

          > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"

          > communication of a "higher" consciousness

          > (Klemp)! What a joke!

          >

          > Still, there is a suggested need for the

          > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to

          > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.

          > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really

          > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied

          > and distracted from thinking and asking

          > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense

          > of purpose, and to make them feel needed

          > by feeling good about themselves. It's also

          > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar

          > has become more like a self-help group.

          > It helps to teach chelas public speaking

          > skills and, thus, self confidence (like

          > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries

          > saving people (Souls), but they also become

          > more pious and deluded.

          >

          > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an

          > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well

          > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean

          > upon... forever!

          >

          > Prometheus

          >

          > Liska wrote:

          >

          > As for clues to how Eckankar is

          > doing one can judge by the turn

          > out at local events. For one thing,

          > there are no youth except for a few

          > that were brought up in eckankar

          > families.

          >

          > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.

          > I never met other eckist youth in school.

          > I felt embarrassed to even share the

          > teachings with my friends.... Why would

          > any youth feel comfortable doing that,

          > the other kids would think we were strange.

          > And to be honest, when I did share the religion

          > our family belonged to with friends, they told

          > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids

          > now a days are not that much different from

          > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)

          > Most youth that attend seminars, local events

          > etc, do so because their parents have hauled

          > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out

          > with kids their own age. When I was attending

          > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby

          > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted

          > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"

          > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call

          > it brainwashing?

          >

          > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar

          > conversation last night. She is agnostic and

          > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the

          > path. We believe something created "all this"

          > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like

          > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,

          > as I did in school, including mythology, and other

          > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,

          > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult

          > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because

          > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission

          > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some

          > many years? LOL

          >

          >

          >

          > Liska wrote:

          > When people try to hold events such as intro

          > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from

          > California told a story on soul forum about

          > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro

          > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on

          > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.

          > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.

          >

          > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these

          > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people

          > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!

          >

          > Liska wrote:

          > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when

          > they couldn't get enough new People to come

          > to their events, the main office said there was

          > Something wrong with the way they were presenting

          > the message.

          >

          > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following

          > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's

          > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is

          > eckankar that people are not interested in,

          > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....

          >

          >

          >

          > Liska wrote:

          > >They even had a long drawn out discussion

          > on soul forum trying to figure out why young

          > people aren't interested in Eckankar.

          >

          > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents

          > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,

          > and trying to break the family karmic bond....

          > At least that was how it was in my family!

          >

          > Liska wrote:

          > The low turnout at events, no youth,

          > increased charges for audio and

          > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the

          > heavy handed advertising for the

          > World Wide are all indicators that

          > finances aren't what they used to be.

          >

          > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't

          > what it used to be either! But you won't

          > be able to convince some of those eckist

          > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,

          > or should I say blue? ;-)

          >

          > No Love in Eck,

          > Liz

          >
        • drubezarne
          No, it s a Yahoo group that s only accessible to H.I.s they invite. I don t know what they re up to with this new forum group. Maybe they will let you join and
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            No, it's a Yahoo group that's only accessible to H.I.s they invite. I
            don't know what they're up to with this new forum group. Maybe they
            will let you join and you can tell us about it. The Yahoo group has
            been in existence for about 10 years. They claim to have over 90
            H.I.s. I think that they're also counting people like me that have
            left soul forum. H.I.s are susceptible to ego stroking like having
            titles, duties, and sacred duties (ha ha). You can see why they would
            find a secret forum with an elitist flavor delightful.

            Regards
            Liska

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
            >
            > Is that the same as
            >
            > http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/
            >
            > or another site altogether?
            >
            > Etznab
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 4:57 pm
            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot
            > the Messenger!
            >
            >
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug Marman,
            >
            > Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with
            >
            > Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a
            >
            > conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off
            >
            > unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum. Many
            >
            > feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which only
            >
            > allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.
            >
            >
            >
            > Regards
            >
            > Liska
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            >
            > prometheus_973@ wrote:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Hi Liz and Liska,
            >
            > > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"
            >
            > > Is it like the official/unofficial EK
            >
            > > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?
            >
            > > Who are the ones standing upon the
            >
            > > pedestals over there? Are they narrow
            >
            > > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and
            >
            > > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat
            >
            > > and Chela Chat?
            >
            > >
            >
            > > In the below comments you mentioned
            >
            > > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall
            >
            > > in CA. and that only three newcomers
            >
            > > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local
            >
            > > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and
            >
            > > family members! LOL!
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Of course, after several years of these EK
            >
            > > events how many friends and relatives are
            >
            > > left that are willing to go to these ECKie
            >
            > > events and waste their time and money.
            >
            > > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...
            >
            > > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive
            >
            > > over/down/up to California during the
            >
            > > week of the EK event and then sucker
            >
            > > them into attending "with you." Timing is
            >
            > > everything!
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Years ago I read and heard of where
            >
            > > one Satsang group in Miami was getting
            >
            > > some very high turnouts at EK events.
            >
            > > Of course, some of the numbers of "new
            >
            > > people" were really repeats and numbers
            >
            > > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but
            >
            > > the total number for a one year period
            >
            > > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What
            >
            > > was even more incredible was that ONLY
            >
            > > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK
            >
            > > Members from this incredibly large turnout
            >
            > > and effort!
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK
            >
            > > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that
            >
            > > they could present these high numbers
            >
            > > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is
            >
            > > the real reason (finally after all these years)
            >
            > > that there is now less effort being made
            >
            > > to have Regional EK Seminars and other
            >
            > > unrewarding expenditures of local EK
            >
            > > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon
            >
            > > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars
            >
            > > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for
            >
            > > things to trickle down to the troops in
            >
            > > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"
            >
            > > communication of a "higher" consciousness
            >
            > > (Klemp)! What a joke!
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Still, there is a suggested need for the
            >
            > > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to
            >
            > > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.
            >
            > > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really
            >
            > > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied
            >
            > > and distracted from thinking and asking
            >
            > > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense
            >
            > > of purpose, and to make them feel needed
            >
            > > by feeling good about themselves. It's also
            >
            > > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar
            >
            > > has become more like a self-help group.
            >
            > > It helps to teach chelas public speaking
            >
            > > skills and, thus, self confidence (like
            >
            > > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries
            >
            > > saving people (Souls), but they also become
            >
            > > more pious and deluded.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an
            >
            > > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well
            >
            > > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean
            >
            > > upon... forever!
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Prometheus
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Liska wrote:
            >
            > >
            >
            > > As for clues to how Eckankar is
            >
            > > doing one can judge by the turn
            >
            > > out at local events. For one thing,
            >
            > > there are no youth except for a few
            >
            > > that were brought up in eckankar
            >
            > > families.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.
            >
            > > I never met other eckist youth in school.
            >
            > > I felt embarrassed to even share the
            >
            > > teachings with my friends.... Why would
            >
            > > any youth feel comfortable doing that,
            >
            > > the other kids would think we were strange.
            >
            > > And to be honest, when I did share the religion
            >
            > > our family belonged to with friends, they told
            >
            > > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids
            >
            > > now a days are not that much different from
            >
            > > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)
            >
            > > Most youth that attend seminars, local events
            >
            > > etc, do so because their parents have hauled
            >
            > > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out
            >
            > > with kids their own age. When I was attending
            >
            > > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby
            >
            > > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted
            >
            > > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"
            >
            > > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call
            >
            > > it brainwashing?
            >
            > >
            >
            > > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar
            >
            > > conversation last night. She is agnostic and
            >
            > > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the
            >
            > > path. We believe something created "all this"
            >
            > > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like
            >
            > > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,
            >
            > > as I did in school, including mythology, and other
            >
            > > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,
            >
            > > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult
            >
            > > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because
            >
            > > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission
            >
            > > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some
            >
            > > many years? LOL
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Liska wrote:
            >
            > > When people try to hold events such as intro
            >
            > > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from
            >
            > > California told a story on soul forum about
            >
            > > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro
            >
            > > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on
            >
            > > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.
            >
            > > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these
            >
            > > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people
            >
            > > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Liska wrote:
            >
            > > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when
            >
            > > they couldn't get enough new People to come
            >
            > > to their events, the main office said there was
            >
            > > Something wrong with the way they were presenting
            >
            > > the message.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following
            >
            > > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's
            >
            > > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is
            >
            > > eckankar that people are not interested in,
            >
            > > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Liska wrote:
            >
            > > >They even had a long drawn out discussion
            >
            > > on soul forum trying to figure out why young
            >
            > > people aren't interested in Eckankar.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents
            >
            > > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,
            >
            > > and trying to break the family karmic bond....
            >
            > > At least that was how it was in my family!
            >
            > >
            >
            > > Liska wrote:
            >
            > > The low turnout at events, no youth,
            >
            > > increased charges for audio and
            >
            > > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the
            >
            > > heavy handed advertising for the
            >
            > > World Wide are all indicators that
            >
            > > finances aren't what they used to be.
            >
            > >
            >
            > > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't
            >
            > > what it used to be either! But you won't
            >
            > > be able to convince some of those eckist
            >
            > > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,
            >
            > > or should I say blue? ;-)
            >
            > >
            >
            > > No Love in Eck,
            >
            > > Liz
            >
            > >
            >
          • etznab@aol.com
            Liska, Thanks for sharing about that. I had no idea it existed. No, I don t think they would let me join. I m not a H.I. Etznab ... From: drubezarne
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Liska,

              Thanks for sharing about that. I had no
              idea it existed.

              No, I don't think they would let me join.
              I'm not a H.I.

              Etznab

              -----Original Message-----
              From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 5:53 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot
              the Messenger!



              No, it's a Yahoo group that's only accessible to H.I.s they invite. I

              don't know what they're up to with this new forum group. Maybe they

              will let you join and you can tell us about it. The Yahoo group has

              been in existence for about 10 years. They claim to have over 90

              H.I.s. I think that they're also counting people like me that have

              left soul forum. H.I.s are susceptible to ego stroking like having

              titles, duties, and sacred duties (ha ha). You can see why they would

              find a secret forum with an elitist flavor delightful.



              Regards

              Liska



              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:

              >

              > Is that the same as

              >

              > http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/

              >

              > or another site altogether?

              >

              > Etznab

              >

              > -----Original Message-----

              > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>

              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com

              > Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 4:57 pm

              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't
              Shoot

              > the Messenger!

              >

              >

              >

              > Prometheus

              >

              >

              >

              > For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug
              Marman,

              >

              > Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with

              >

              > Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a

              >

              > conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off

              >

              > unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum.
              Many

              >

              > feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which
              only

              >

              > allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.

              >

              >

              >

              > Regards

              >

              > Liska

              >

              >

              >

              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"

              >

              > prometheus_973@ wrote:

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Hi Liz and Liska,

              >

              > > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"

              >

              > > Is it like the official/unofficial EK

              >

              > > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?

              >

              > > Who are the ones standing upon the

              >

              > > pedestals over there? Are they narrow

              >

              > > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and

              >

              > > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat

              >

              > > and Chela Chat?

              >

              > >

              >

              > > In the below comments you mentioned

              >

              > > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall

              >

              > > in CA. and that only three newcomers

              >

              > > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local

              >

              > > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and

              >

              > > family members! LOL!

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Of course, after several years of these EK

              >

              > > events how many friends and relatives are

              >

              > > left that are willing to go to these ECKie

              >

              > > events and waste their time and money.

              >

              > > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...

              >

              > > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive

              >

              > > over/down/up to California during the

              >

              > > week of the EK event and then sucker

              >

              > > them into attending "with you." Timing is

              >

              > > everything!

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Years ago I read and heard of where

              >

              > > one Satsang group in Miami was getting

              >

              > > some very high turnouts at EK events.

              >

              > > Of course, some of the numbers of "new

              >

              > > people" were really repeats and numbers

              >

              > > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but

              >

              > > the total number for a one year period

              >

              > > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What

              >

              > > was even more incredible was that ONLY

              >

              > > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK

              >

              > > Members from this incredibly large turnout

              >

              > > and effort!

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK

              >

              > > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that

              >

              > > they could present these high numbers

              >

              > > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is

              >

              > > the real reason (finally after all these years)

              >

              > > that there is now less effort being made

              >

              > > to have Regional EK Seminars and other

              >

              > > unrewarding expenditures of local EK

              >

              > > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon

              >

              > > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars

              >

              > > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for

              >

              > > things to trickle down to the troops in

              >

              > > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"

              >

              > > communication of a "higher" consciousness

              >

              > > (Klemp)! What a joke!

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Still, there is a suggested need for the

              >

              > > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to

              >

              > > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.

              >

              > > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really

              >

              > > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied

              >

              > > and distracted from thinking and asking

              >

              > > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense

              >

              > > of purpose, and to make them feel needed

              >

              > > by feeling good about themselves. It's also

              >

              > > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar

              >

              > > has become more like a self-help group.

              >

              > > It helps to teach chelas public speaking

              >

              > > skills and, thus, self confidence (like

              >

              > > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries

              >

              > > saving people (Souls), but they also become

              >

              > > more pious and deluded.

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an

              >

              > > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well

              >

              > > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean

              >

              > > upon... forever!

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Prometheus

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Liska wrote:

              >

              > >

              >

              > > As for clues to how Eckankar is

              >

              > > doing one can judge by the turn

              >

              > > out at local events. For one thing,

              >

              > > there are no youth except for a few

              >

              > > that were brought up in eckankar

              >

              > > families.

              >

              > >

              >

              > > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.

              >

              > > I never met other eckist youth in school.

              >

              > > I felt embarrassed to even share the

              >

              > > teachings with my friends.... Why would

              >

              > > any youth feel comfortable doing that,

              >

              > > the other kids would think we were strange.

              >

              > > And to be honest, when I did share the religion

              >

              > > our family belonged to with friends, they told

              >

              > > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids

              >

              > > now a days are not that much different from

              >

              > > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)

              >

              > > Most youth that attend seminars, local events

              >

              > > etc, do so because their parents have hauled

              >

              > > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out

              >

              > > with kids their own age. When I was attending

              >

              > > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby

              >

              > > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted

              >

              > > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"

              >

              > > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call

              >

              > > it brainwashing?

              >

              > >

              >

              > > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar

              >

              > > conversation last night. She is agnostic and

              >

              > > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the

              >

              > > path. We believe something created "all this"

              >

              > > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like

              >

              > > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,

              >

              > > as I did in school, including mythology, and other

              >

              > > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,

              >

              > > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult

              >

              > > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because

              >

              > > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission

              >

              > > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some

              >

              > > many years? LOL

              >

              > >

              >

              > >

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Liska wrote:

              >

              > > When people try to hold events such as intro

              >

              > > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from

              >

              > > California told a story on soul forum about

              >

              > > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro

              >

              > > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on

              >

              > > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.

              >

              > > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.

              >

              > >

              >

              > > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these

              >

              > > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people

              >

              > > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Liska wrote:

              >

              > > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when

              >

              > > they couldn't get enough new People to come

              >

              > > to their events, the main office said there was

              >

              > > Something wrong with the way they were presenting

              >

              > > the message.

              >

              > >

              >

              > > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following

              >

              > > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's

              >

              > > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is

              >

              > > eckankar that people are not interested in,

              >

              > > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....

              >

              > >

              >

              > >

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Liska wrote:

              >

              > > >They even had a long drawn out discussion

              >

              > > on soul forum trying to figure out why young

              >

              > > people aren't interested in Eckankar.

              >

              > >

              >

              > > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents

              >

              > > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,

              >

              > > and trying to break the family karmic bond....

              >

              > > At least that was how it was in my family!

              >

              > >

              >

              > > Liska wrote:

              >

              > > The low turnout at events, no youth,

              >

              > > increased charges for audio and

              >

              > > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the

              >

              > > heavy handed advertising for the

              >

              > > World Wide are all indicators that

              >

              > > finances aren't what they used to be.

              >

              > >

              >

              > > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't

              >

              > > what it used to be either! But you won't

              >

              > > be able to convince some of those eckist

              >

              > > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,

              >

              > > or should I say blue? ;-)

              >

              > >

              >

              > > No Love in Eck,

              >

              > > Liz

              >

              > >

              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Etznab and All, Just because you re not an H.I. doesn t mean you can t join. What do they require for membership... a quote from the most recent H.I.
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 5, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Etznab and All,
                Just because you're not an H.I. doesn't
                mean you can't join. What do they require
                for membership... a quote from the most
                recent H.I. Letter?

                I guess they, also, may want your "real name"
                and location so they can ask around about
                you. Still, there are many H.I.s who aren't
                in the EK spotlight and don't want to be.
                They want their privacy.

                And, I'm not sure that the ESC would provide
                them membership info. Eckankar membership
                info and one's "rank" are supposed to remain
                private. Of course I could be wrong as to what
                membership info is being shared. Klemp has
                never really been specific on anything.

                After all, at one time, ECKists were supposed
                to keep their "spiritual stories" private as well,
                and we can see how Klemp has "changed" that
                policy too!

                Prometheus


                etznab@... wrote:
                >
                > Liska,
                >
                > Thanks for sharing about that. I had no
                > idea it existed.
                >
                > No, I don't think they would let me join.
                > I'm not a H.I.
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot the Messenger!

                No, it's a Yahoo group that's only accessible
                to H.I.s they invite. I don't know what they're
                up to with this new forum group. Maybe they
                will let you join and you can tell us about it.
                The Yahoo group has been in existence for
                about 10 years. They claim to have over 90
                H.I.s. I think that they're also counting people
                like me that have left soul forum. H.I.s are
                susceptible to ego stroking like having
                titles, duties, and sacred duties (ha ha).
                You can see why they would find a secret
                forum with an elitist flavor delightful.

                Regards
                >
                Liska
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.