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Re: Eckankar: July 2005 Youth in ECK Letter of Light (3)

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Ingrid, These Questions for the Master... are fun to analyse and comment on aren t they! I enjoy your perspectives and how they inspire more thoughts
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 23, 2005
      Hello Ingrid,
      These "Questions for the Master..." are fun to analyse and comment
      on aren't they! I enjoy your perspectives and how they inspire more
      thoughts about the material.

      "ctecvie" wrote:
      > Hello Prometheus,
      your analyses make Harry's (yes, I mean Harold! :-) ) so much more
      interesting! I wonder why this is so? ;-))

      [Q} "I've noticed that in many religions prayers and questions are
      directed to one particular person; for example, Christians direct
      them to Jesus. In ECKANKAR we always ask the Mahanta or ECK Masters
      for guidance. Why don't we direct our questions to God?" --Sarah,
      age 17."

      [HK} "Dear Sarah, In ancient Greece and Rome, the practice of
      worship was much different from the one God that many Western
      religions have today. The ancients had many gods, not just one."

      > What a surprise!! ;-))

      ***Yes, Klemp must assume that this 17 year old female as well as
      most of the adults reading this "Letter of Light" don't already know
      this! Then again, Klemp often "talks down" to Eckists doesn't he!
      It's a lack of respect! He's the scam artist... they are the fools!

      [Me] Yes Klemp, but why limit your comments to the Greeks and
      Romans when some "Western religions" like Eckankar came from the
      East and was not influenced by Greece or Rome.

      [HK] "For example, there may have been a goddess of the hearth, and
      of love; a god of the fields, of the sky, of thunder and lightning,
      and so on."

      [Me] Perhaps, Mr. Klemp, could actually name these Greek and Roman
      gods and goddesses. For instance, I would like to know who the
      Greek and Roman gods of thunder and lightning were? The "all
      knowing" Mahanta should give more information since he seems to
      enjoy giving "history" lessons in his articles.

      > Well, perhaps he wants his chelas to go to the "inner" and find
      out who those gods were?

      ***Yes, and perhaps Klemp is just too lazy to look it up. Why does
      he say there "may" have been a goddess, etc.? I think he just didn't
      bother because it's not required of him to go into detail due to his
      exalted position as the Mahanta. There is no Eckist that can or
      would dare to criticize him for this either. This is one reason why
      he gets away with his simple minded little stories that leave gaps
      for one's imagination (of belief) to fill in.

      [HK] "The Old Testament brought the idea of one God to civilization.
      The name of this God was never spoken."

      > And there were no pictures ... and no temples ... or so? It would
      be good, in my opinion, to go back to simplicity, and not buy a big
      campus and fill it with buildings, as in Chanhassen, Minnesota!
      Isn't it said that the more luxury a religion has, the faster its
      spirituality will deteriorate?

      ***Yes, that railing around the staircase at the new ESC is quite
      ornate! That had to have cost a lot of money! But, Eckankar is a
      religion and doesn't pay taxes. Those people (Eckists) working at
      the ESC should, therefore, make a good wage. But, I've heard that
      they don't! Why is Klemp being cheap with pay for these dedicated
      people? They need to pay bills too! It would really be nice to see
      Eckankar's finacial records and know what is spent. How much money
      is Klemp paid and what fringe benefits does he have?

      [Me] Why go back to just one religion for this example, or is it
      because Klemp is still somewhat attached to his Luthern roots? The
      roots of Eckankar are from Sant Mat, and the roots of Christianity
      are with Judaism.

      [HK] "You've noticed that prayers and questions are directed to one
      being today. Christians address Jesus. ECKists do the same with the
      Mahanta or another of the ECK Masters. Why not speak directly with

      [Me] Yes Klemp, this was the question that she had asked... glad
      you finally decided to answer it.

      > So, hurry up and tell us why, Harry!!

      [HK] "You may if you like, of course. Someone is likely to come on
      your call-in line. But how do you know who it is?"

      > Well, Harry - do YOU know who you talk with when you get your
      godly insights as the bearer of all universes? Who told you you were
      this anyway?

      ***If he does get anything "spiritual" (and I doubt that a deceiver
      would) he gets it from the same source most receive it from.

      [Me] Okay, so it's fine if one Does by-pass the Mahanta and Eck
      Masters... cool! Oh, how does one "know" who it is? Well, through
      insight and intuition and such. This is all a part of Self-Mastery
      and Spiritual Freedom right? Maybe one could HU like Graham did in
      order to verify his experience! At least one doesn't have to be
      tethered to Klemp any longer! Thanks for the warning HK, but it's
      worth the risk for all Eckists isn't it?

      > Obviously the hu-chanting didn't anything good for Graham as,
      according to Harry, he fell into Kal's trap right away!

      [HK] "In ECK we know that SUGMAD, the God of Gods, doesn't get into
      the noise level of ITS creation."

      [Me] Maybe or maybe Not! Is it an unchangable absolute rule?

      > Again - who told you this, Harry? Did you check your experiences
      with the charged words as Eckankar teaches? What if you are in Kal's
      trap, too, like Graham was? Anyway, don't worry - you are not alone
      there, and I think this is a great consolation!

      ***Why is Eckankar called "The Religion of the Light and Sound of
      God" when it should say SUGMAD and not God? Klemp would say that
      Eckists need to use "common language" out in the world, but is this
      the real reason? If you read some of Klemp's books even after
      the "common language" speech you will see that he doesn't follow his
      own advice (again)! Klemp uses the term "Eck" instead of "Holy
      Spirit" just about everywhere... so why not use SUGMAD ("the God of
      Gods") instead of God? Maybe Klemp's too embarrassed to
      make, "Eckankar The Religion of the Light and Sound of SUGMAD."

      [HK] "The ECK, the Voice of God, does that, for It is the creative
      Spirit that nourishes and maintains SUGMAD's vast worlds below ITS
      home, the Ocean of Love and Mercy."

      > Where only Eckists swim ...

      ***Yes, Klemp has helped make all Eckists arrogant and delusional in
      believing that they have the only truth and that it is the highest
      truth! Eckists believe that only they can have a relationship with
      the "Eck" (SPIRIT or the Holy Spirit). They live in a house of cards.

      [Me] Actually, SPIRIT or the Holy Spirit goes by many names and is
      Not the sole possession of Eckankar. The term "ECK" is just a made
      up word (a shortened version of ECKankar) that Twitchell came up
      with for his scam/cult. And yes, it is copyrighted and, therefore,
      exclusive to Eckankar.

      [HK] "Most people don't know the ways of ECK. They must first learn
      that It speaks, and then how it speaks."

      > And Harry, you are the only one who can teach us that, of course!

      ***Yes, this phoney might even believe some of his own PR spin!

      [Me] One can learn this through many teachers (inner and outer,
      i.e. Soul) including nature and in relationships with others (karma
      too), and through meditation/contemplation, etc. Attachment to a
      teacher is detrimental to spiritual growth.

      > And isn't it great that we can learn from everyone and everything,
      and that we don't necessarily need to visit the "higher" planes for
      that! We operate on all planes simultaneously, we don't need to make
      appointments "up" there!

      ***So very true! Life and realities surround us within and without!

      [HK] "In the meantime, It sends the seeker someone he can
      understand: an angel, an ECK Master, or perhaps the Mahanta will

      [Me] ALLRIGHT!!! Klemp said to this Eckist that one could look to
      an "angel" and that "It" the Holy Spirit or the "ECK" would send
      the angel to the seeker (the Eckist)! And, isn't it interesting that
      HK states that "perhaps the Mahanta will come." What's with
      the "perhaps?"

      > If you smoke, the Mahanta won't come! He's afraid of smoke! Like
      the vampire of garlic!

      ***Good one! Klemp never did answer that question. Would he (the
      mahanta) still be there with you if it was someone else's smoke!

      [HK] "The Mahanta is the ECK Itself."

      > ... anyone who is a true master doesn't say he is a master ...
      isn't that so? But of course he doesn't say he is a master - he just
      says he's the mahanta ... that's a great difference, obviously! :-)

      ***Klemp gets around this like Twitchell did. He talks in third
      person about the Mahanta and has someone introduce him as the
      LEM/Mahanta, etc.

      [Me] Actually, we (Soul) are all one with SPIRIT ("ECK") Itself!
      This is Not exclusive to one Soul! Soul equals Soul... remenber!

      [HK} "He is both the macrocosm (the universal) and the microcosm
      (the human, the personal side)."

      [Me] Nope! Sorry 'bout that! "He" the Mahanta is no more and no less
      than I am!

      > Ah, come on, Prometheus - don't you know that we all are standing
      in line for the mahantaship (except us women of course, but we will
      take care to be reincarnated as men next time round :-) )! It won't
      be before about 100.000 years of course, but who cares! We have
      time! Time is fictitious anyway, so why bother about how much time
      we will need!

      ***That's quite a long wait isn't it! Probably longer actually! This
      is why so many long time Eckists tend to hallucinate and dream of
      those 8th and 9th initiations as well!

      [Me] Actually, the Mahanta is less because the Mahanta is fictional!

      > Yes, but it's a good marketing idea ... ;-))

      ***Yes, Twitchell needed to make himself infallible so that he could
      remain above reproach in all that he made up. The Pope is said to be
      infallible when he makes a decision sitting on The Throne of St.
      Peter. This is probably where Twitch got this idea.

      [Me] See how Klemp is attempting to establish a "personal side" and
      an imperfect human side to give an excuse for his short comings
      while creating more personality worship (which he'll later deny or
      try to control). This is the method of confusion and second guessing
      (paradoxes anyone?) which keeps Eckists off balance in all aspects
      of life thus requiring the Mahanta's help! A vicious circle!

      > Of course nobody worships HK, they all worship only the mahanta!
      It doesn't matter that HK and the mahanta are one and the same!

      ***At first there was some personality worship. Twitchell and Gross
      encouraged it, but Klemp did come out against it and has mostly
      discouraged it. Still, it has only been controlled and is still
      evident as anyone can see. The Mahanta thing is the real Catch-22
      out for Klemp just as it was for Twitchell.

      [HK] "I hope this will help you understand, Sarah." --Harold

      > Thanks for the lesson, Harry. Would I listen to you, I wouldn't
      understand anything. In fact, I listened to you for much too long,
      but in spite of this, I grew wiser and got out in time!

      [Me] Yes HK, it has helped me to see and further understand that you
      require weakness in your followers for the scam to work! Okay, maybe
      some delusion and hope along with those Higher Initiations and
      inflated egos does go a long way as well.

      > Mix it all together and you've got the perfect follower of a
      deluded self-made master with psychological difficulties! :-))

      ***True! Klemp still has issues from his childhood! Afterall, his
      father died one month after Twitchell (Sept 17, 1971) and Klemp went
      to the Eck World Wide Seminar instead of his father's funeral. I
      think Klemp thought that he might be named to replace Twitch. He
      probably would have if he had dated Gail or if Gross hadn't!

      [Me] It's really too bad that most Eckists (and Klemp) just don't
      listen! Your own words (as with Twitch and Gross) give you away!
      Then again, maybe the real reason for many Eckists remaining still
      is that they need Eckankar by thinking that they need something to
      hang onto. "Reality" is spinning around them and Eckankar seems to
      have the greater support than anything else out "here!" Maybe that's
      closer to the truth as to why people remain "Eckists" than you would
      ever want to admit!

      > It's not always easy to be out there all alone! So better to hang
      on to something, whatever it is! But, there is so much more freedom
      now that we have made the decision and taken the step!

      ***Yes, the freedom is great! What a load off my shoulders!

      [Me] If this is the case then these Eckists will never be prepared
      to stand on their own feet, but this fits in with Twitchell's
      original plan doesn't it? Twitchell never planned on dying as soon
      as he did and this is why Gail had to choose the next LEM/Mahanta,
      her lover Gross, and why you are only filling a ficticious position
      created as a religious scam and vocation for Twitchell alone!

      > I'm always amazed at how easily we believe such things! Well, now,
      after the Eckankar experience I know that I have to be very careful!

      ***Yes, it's too bad that some jump right back into the fire again,
      but maybe they need to be purified more in order to become ready for
      true Spiritual Freedom and Self-Mastery.

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