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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot the Messenger!

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  • Elizabeth
    ... local events. For one thing, there are no youth except for a few that were brought up in eckankar families. ****I was brought up in the teachings. I never
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 2, 2008
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      Liska wrote:
       
      >As for clues to how Eckankar is doing one can judge by the turn out at
      local events. For one thing, there are no youth except for a few that
      were brought up in eckankar families.
       
      ****I was brought up in the teachings. I never met other eckist youth in school. I felt embarrassed to even share the teachings with my friends....  Why would any youth feel comfortable doing that, the other kids would think we were strange.  And to be honest, when I did share the religion our family belonged to with friends, they told me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing.  Kids now a days are not that much different from when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)  Most youth that attend seminars, local events etc,   do so because their parents have hauled them to the events and they enjoy hanging out with kids their own age. When I was attending the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual" entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call it brainwashing? 
       
      ****My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar conversation last night.  She is agnostic and I tend to lean that way now after leaving the path.  We believe something created "all this" but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions, as I did in school, including mythology, and other cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths, dogma...  And for me to state it was always difficult for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission coming from me..... So why did I stay for some many years?  LOL   
       
      Liska wrote:
      >When people try to hold events such as intro talks hardly anybody
      shows up. One H.I. from California told a story on soul forum about
      renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro talk. His group
      advertised in the papers, on the radio, and put up posters all over
      the place. When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.
       
      ****Yep, and guess who had to pay for these halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people if not enough would show up?  ESC surely didn't! 
       
      Liska wrote:
      >H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when they couldn't get enough new
      People to come to their events, the main office said there was
      Something wrong with the way they were presenting the message.
       
      ****How can that be, if the HI's were following the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is eckankar that people are not interested in, no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....    
       
      Liska wrote:
      >They even had a long drawn out discussion on soul forum trying to
      figure out why young people aren't interested in Eckankar.
       
      ****Part of it might be because the parents are more interested in their own spiritual growth, and trying to break the family karmic bond.... At least that was how it was in my family!  
       
      Liska wrote:
      The low turnout at events, no youth, increased charges for audio and
      video broadcasts of Klemp, and the heavy handed advertising for the
      World Wide are all indicators that finances aren't what they used to be.
       
      ****Yep.... And the membership isn't what it used to be either!  But you won't be able to convince some of those eckist that won't take off their rose colored glasses, or should I say blue?  ;-)
       
      No Love in Eck,
      Liz 
       
       
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Liz and Liska, Say Liska, what s this soul forum? Is it like the official/unofficial EK sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat? Who are the ones standing upon
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
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        Hi Liz and Liska,
        Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"
        Is it like the official/unofficial EK
        sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?
        Who are the ones standing upon the
        pedestals over there? Are they narrow
        minded, narcissistic, delusional, and
        beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat
        and Chela Chat?

        In the below comments you mentioned
        about ECKists renting a 200 person hall
        in CA. and that only three newcomers
        showed up. It doesn't sound like the local
        EK chelas dragged in enough friends and
        family members! LOL!

        Of course, after several years of these EK
        events how many friends and relatives are
        left that are willing to go to these ECKie
        events and waste their time and money.
        These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...
        invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive
        over/down/up to California during the
        week of the EK event and then sucker
        them into attending "with you." Timing is
        everything!

        Years ago I read and heard of where
        one Satsang group in Miami was getting
        some very high turnouts at EK events.
        Of course, some of the numbers of "new
        people" were really repeats and numbers
        were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but
        the total number for a one year period
        was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What
        was even more incredible was that ONLY
        3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK
        Members from this incredibly large turnout
        and effort!

        Then again, I'm certain that the local EK
        Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that
        they could present these high numbers
        to the ESC. And, it could be that this is
        the real reason (finally after all these years)
        that there is now less effort being made
        to have Regional EK Seminars and other
        unrewarding expenditures of local EK
        (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon
        the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars
        and mailings. It seems to take awhile for
        things to trickle down to the troops in
        the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"
        communication of a "higher" consciousness
        (Klemp)! What a joke!

        Still, there is a suggested need for the
        Lower Plane "outer" work in order to
        receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.
        Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really
        just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied
        and distracted from thinking and asking
        questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense
        of purpose, and to make them feel needed
        by feeling good about themselves. It's also
        a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar
        has become more like a self-help group.
        It helps to teach chelas public speaking
        skills and, thus, self confidence (like
        Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries
        saving people (Souls), but they also become
        more pious and deluded.

        Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an
        attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well
        as, a drug that one needs to use and lean
        upon... forever!

        Prometheus

        Liska wrote:

        As for clues to how Eckankar is
        doing one can judge by the turn
        out at local events. For one thing,
        there are no youth except for a few
        that were brought up in eckankar
        families.

        LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.
        I never met other eckist youth in school.
        I felt embarrassed to even share the
        teachings with my friends.... Why would
        any youth feel comfortable doing that,
        the other kids would think we were strange.
        And to be honest, when I did share the religion
        our family belonged to with friends, they told
        me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids
        now a days are not that much different from
        when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)
        Most youth that attend seminars, local events
        etc, do so because their parents have hauled
        them to the events and they enjoy hanging out
        with kids their own age. When I was attending
        the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby
        sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted
        to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"
        entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call
        it brainwashing?

        LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar
        conversation last night. She is agnostic and
        I tend to lean that way now after leaving the
        path. We believe something created "all this"
        but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like
        Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,
        as I did in school, including mythology, and other
        cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,
        dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult
        for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because
        of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission
        coming from me..... So why did I stay for some
        many years? LOL



        Liska wrote:
        When people try to hold events such as intro
        talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from
        California told a story on soul forum about
        renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro
        talk. His group advertised in the papers, on
        the radio, and put up posters all over the place.
        When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.

        LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these
        halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people
        if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!

        Liska wrote:
        H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when
        they couldn't get enough new People to come
        to their events, the main office said there was
        Something wrong with the way they were presenting
        the message.

        LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following
        the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's
        pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is
        eckankar that people are not interested in,
        no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....



        Liska wrote:
        >They even had a long drawn out discussion
        on soul forum trying to figure out why young
        people aren't interested in Eckankar.

        LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents
        are more interested in their own spiritual growth,
        and trying to break the family karmic bond....
        At least that was how it was in my family!

        Liska wrote:
        The low turnout at events, no youth,
        increased charges for audio and
        video broadcasts of Klemp, and the
        heavy handed advertising for the
        World Wide are all indicators that
        finances aren't what they used to be.

        LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't
        what it used to be either! But you won't
        be able to convince some of those eckist
        that won't take off their rose colored glasses,
        or should I say blue? ;-)

        No Love in Eck,
        Liz
      • drubezarne
        Prometheus For those who haven t heard about soul forum, it s run by Doug Marman, Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with Doug to
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
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          Prometheus

          For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug Marman,
          Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with
          Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a
          conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off
          unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum. Many
          feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which only
          allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.

          Regards
          Liska


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Liz and Liska,
          > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"
          > Is it like the official/unofficial EK
          > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?
          > Who are the ones standing upon the
          > pedestals over there? Are they narrow
          > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and
          > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat
          > and Chela Chat?
          >
          > In the below comments you mentioned
          > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall
          > in CA. and that only three newcomers
          > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local
          > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and
          > family members! LOL!
          >
          > Of course, after several years of these EK
          > events how many friends and relatives are
          > left that are willing to go to these ECKie
          > events and waste their time and money.
          > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...
          > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive
          > over/down/up to California during the
          > week of the EK event and then sucker
          > them into attending "with you." Timing is
          > everything!
          >
          > Years ago I read and heard of where
          > one Satsang group in Miami was getting
          > some very high turnouts at EK events.
          > Of course, some of the numbers of "new
          > people" were really repeats and numbers
          > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but
          > the total number for a one year period
          > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What
          > was even more incredible was that ONLY
          > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK
          > Members from this incredibly large turnout
          > and effort!
          >
          > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK
          > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that
          > they could present these high numbers
          > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is
          > the real reason (finally after all these years)
          > that there is now less effort being made
          > to have Regional EK Seminars and other
          > unrewarding expenditures of local EK
          > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon
          > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars
          > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for
          > things to trickle down to the troops in
          > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"
          > communication of a "higher" consciousness
          > (Klemp)! What a joke!
          >
          > Still, there is a suggested need for the
          > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to
          > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.
          > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really
          > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied
          > and distracted from thinking and asking
          > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense
          > of purpose, and to make them feel needed
          > by feeling good about themselves. It's also
          > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar
          > has become more like a self-help group.
          > It helps to teach chelas public speaking
          > skills and, thus, self confidence (like
          > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries
          > saving people (Souls), but they also become
          > more pious and deluded.
          >
          > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an
          > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well
          > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean
          > upon... forever!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > Liska wrote:
          >
          > As for clues to how Eckankar is
          > doing one can judge by the turn
          > out at local events. For one thing,
          > there are no youth except for a few
          > that were brought up in eckankar
          > families.
          >
          > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.
          > I never met other eckist youth in school.
          > I felt embarrassed to even share the
          > teachings with my friends.... Why would
          > any youth feel comfortable doing that,
          > the other kids would think we were strange.
          > And to be honest, when I did share the religion
          > our family belonged to with friends, they told
          > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids
          > now a days are not that much different from
          > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)
          > Most youth that attend seminars, local events
          > etc, do so because their parents have hauled
          > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out
          > with kids their own age. When I was attending
          > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby
          > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted
          > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"
          > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call
          > it brainwashing?
          >
          > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar
          > conversation last night. She is agnostic and
          > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the
          > path. We believe something created "all this"
          > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like
          > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,
          > as I did in school, including mythology, and other
          > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,
          > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult
          > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because
          > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission
          > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some
          > many years? LOL
          >
          >
          >
          > Liska wrote:
          > When people try to hold events such as intro
          > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from
          > California told a story on soul forum about
          > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro
          > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on
          > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.
          > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.
          >
          > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these
          > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people
          > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!
          >
          > Liska wrote:
          > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when
          > they couldn't get enough new People to come
          > to their events, the main office said there was
          > Something wrong with the way they were presenting
          > the message.
          >
          > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following
          > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's
          > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is
          > eckankar that people are not interested in,
          > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....
          >
          >
          >
          > Liska wrote:
          > >They even had a long drawn out discussion
          > on soul forum trying to figure out why young
          > people aren't interested in Eckankar.
          >
          > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents
          > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,
          > and trying to break the family karmic bond....
          > At least that was how it was in my family!
          >
          > Liska wrote:
          > The low turnout at events, no youth,
          > increased charges for audio and
          > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the
          > heavy handed advertising for the
          > World Wide are all indicators that
          > finances aren't what they used to be.
          >
          > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't
          > what it used to be either! But you won't
          > be able to convince some of those eckist
          > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,
          > or should I say blue? ;-)
          >
          > No Love in Eck,
          > Liz
          >
        • etznab@aol.com
          Is that the same as http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/ or another site altogether? Etznab ... From: drubezarne To:
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Is that the same as

            http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/

            or another site altogether?

            Etznab

            -----Original Message-----
            From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 4:57 pm
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot
            the Messenger!



            Prometheus



            For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug Marman,

            Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with

            Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a

            conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off

            unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum. Many

            feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which only

            allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.



            Regards

            Liska



            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"

            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

            >

            > Hi Liz and Liska,

            > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"

            > Is it like the official/unofficial EK

            > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?

            > Who are the ones standing upon the

            > pedestals over there? Are they narrow

            > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and

            > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat

            > and Chela Chat?

            >

            > In the below comments you mentioned

            > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall

            > in CA. and that only three newcomers

            > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local

            > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and

            > family members! LOL!

            >

            > Of course, after several years of these EK

            > events how many friends and relatives are

            > left that are willing to go to these ECKie

            > events and waste their time and money.

            > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...

            > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive

            > over/down/up to California during the

            > week of the EK event and then sucker

            > them into attending "with you." Timing is

            > everything!

            >

            > Years ago I read and heard of where

            > one Satsang group in Miami was getting

            > some very high turnouts at EK events.

            > Of course, some of the numbers of "new

            > people" were really repeats and numbers

            > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but

            > the total number for a one year period

            > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What

            > was even more incredible was that ONLY

            > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK

            > Members from this incredibly large turnout

            > and effort!

            >

            > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK

            > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that

            > they could present these high numbers

            > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is

            > the real reason (finally after all these years)

            > that there is now less effort being made

            > to have Regional EK Seminars and other

            > unrewarding expenditures of local EK

            > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon

            > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars

            > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for

            > things to trickle down to the troops in

            > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"

            > communication of a "higher" consciousness

            > (Klemp)! What a joke!

            >

            > Still, there is a suggested need for the

            > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to

            > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.

            > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really

            > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied

            > and distracted from thinking and asking

            > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense

            > of purpose, and to make them feel needed

            > by feeling good about themselves. It's also

            > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar

            > has become more like a self-help group.

            > It helps to teach chelas public speaking

            > skills and, thus, self confidence (like

            > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries

            > saving people (Souls), but they also become

            > more pious and deluded.

            >

            > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an

            > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well

            > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean

            > upon... forever!

            >

            > Prometheus

            >

            > Liska wrote:

            >

            > As for clues to how Eckankar is

            > doing one can judge by the turn

            > out at local events. For one thing,

            > there are no youth except for a few

            > that were brought up in eckankar

            > families.

            >

            > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.

            > I never met other eckist youth in school.

            > I felt embarrassed to even share the

            > teachings with my friends.... Why would

            > any youth feel comfortable doing that,

            > the other kids would think we were strange.

            > And to be honest, when I did share the religion

            > our family belonged to with friends, they told

            > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids

            > now a days are not that much different from

            > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)

            > Most youth that attend seminars, local events

            > etc, do so because their parents have hauled

            > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out

            > with kids their own age. When I was attending

            > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby

            > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted

            > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"

            > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call

            > it brainwashing?

            >

            > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar

            > conversation last night. She is agnostic and

            > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the

            > path. We believe something created "all this"

            > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like

            > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,

            > as I did in school, including mythology, and other

            > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,

            > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult

            > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because

            > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission

            > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some

            > many years? LOL

            >

            >

            >

            > Liska wrote:

            > When people try to hold events such as intro

            > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from

            > California told a story on soul forum about

            > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro

            > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on

            > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.

            > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.

            >

            > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these

            > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people

            > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!

            >

            > Liska wrote:

            > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when

            > they couldn't get enough new People to come

            > to their events, the main office said there was

            > Something wrong with the way they were presenting

            > the message.

            >

            > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following

            > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's

            > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is

            > eckankar that people are not interested in,

            > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....

            >

            >

            >

            > Liska wrote:

            > >They even had a long drawn out discussion

            > on soul forum trying to figure out why young

            > people aren't interested in Eckankar.

            >

            > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents

            > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,

            > and trying to break the family karmic bond....

            > At least that was how it was in my family!

            >

            > Liska wrote:

            > The low turnout at events, no youth,

            > increased charges for audio and

            > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the

            > heavy handed advertising for the

            > World Wide are all indicators that

            > finances aren't what they used to be.

            >

            > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't

            > what it used to be either! But you won't

            > be able to convince some of those eckist

            > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,

            > or should I say blue? ;-)

            >

            > No Love in Eck,

            > Liz

            >
          • drubezarne
            No, it s a Yahoo group that s only accessible to H.I.s they invite. I don t know what they re up to with this new forum group. Maybe they will let you join and
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              No, it's a Yahoo group that's only accessible to H.I.s they invite. I
              don't know what they're up to with this new forum group. Maybe they
              will let you join and you can tell us about it. The Yahoo group has
              been in existence for about 10 years. They claim to have over 90
              H.I.s. I think that they're also counting people like me that have
              left soul forum. H.I.s are susceptible to ego stroking like having
              titles, duties, and sacred duties (ha ha). You can see why they would
              find a secret forum with an elitist flavor delightful.

              Regards
              Liska

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
              >
              > Is that the same as
              >
              > http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/
              >
              > or another site altogether?
              >
              > Etznab
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 4:57 pm
              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot
              > the Messenger!
              >
              >
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              >
              > For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug Marman,
              >
              > Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with
              >
              > Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a
              >
              > conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off
              >
              > unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum. Many
              >
              > feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which only
              >
              > allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.
              >
              >
              >
              > Regards
              >
              > Liska
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              >
              > prometheus_973@ wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Hi Liz and Liska,
              >
              > > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"
              >
              > > Is it like the official/unofficial EK
              >
              > > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?
              >
              > > Who are the ones standing upon the
              >
              > > pedestals over there? Are they narrow
              >
              > > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and
              >
              > > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat
              >
              > > and Chela Chat?
              >
              > >
              >
              > > In the below comments you mentioned
              >
              > > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall
              >
              > > in CA. and that only three newcomers
              >
              > > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local
              >
              > > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and
              >
              > > family members! LOL!
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Of course, after several years of these EK
              >
              > > events how many friends and relatives are
              >
              > > left that are willing to go to these ECKie
              >
              > > events and waste their time and money.
              >
              > > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...
              >
              > > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive
              >
              > > over/down/up to California during the
              >
              > > week of the EK event and then sucker
              >
              > > them into attending "with you." Timing is
              >
              > > everything!
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Years ago I read and heard of where
              >
              > > one Satsang group in Miami was getting
              >
              > > some very high turnouts at EK events.
              >
              > > Of course, some of the numbers of "new
              >
              > > people" were really repeats and numbers
              >
              > > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but
              >
              > > the total number for a one year period
              >
              > > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What
              >
              > > was even more incredible was that ONLY
              >
              > > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK
              >
              > > Members from this incredibly large turnout
              >
              > > and effort!
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK
              >
              > > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that
              >
              > > they could present these high numbers
              >
              > > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is
              >
              > > the real reason (finally after all these years)
              >
              > > that there is now less effort being made
              >
              > > to have Regional EK Seminars and other
              >
              > > unrewarding expenditures of local EK
              >
              > > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon
              >
              > > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars
              >
              > > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for
              >
              > > things to trickle down to the troops in
              >
              > > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"
              >
              > > communication of a "higher" consciousness
              >
              > > (Klemp)! What a joke!
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Still, there is a suggested need for the
              >
              > > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to
              >
              > > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.
              >
              > > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really
              >
              > > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied
              >
              > > and distracted from thinking and asking
              >
              > > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense
              >
              > > of purpose, and to make them feel needed
              >
              > > by feeling good about themselves. It's also
              >
              > > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar
              >
              > > has become more like a self-help group.
              >
              > > It helps to teach chelas public speaking
              >
              > > skills and, thus, self confidence (like
              >
              > > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries
              >
              > > saving people (Souls), but they also become
              >
              > > more pious and deluded.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an
              >
              > > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well
              >
              > > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean
              >
              > > upon... forever!
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Prometheus
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Liska wrote:
              >
              > >
              >
              > > As for clues to how Eckankar is
              >
              > > doing one can judge by the turn
              >
              > > out at local events. For one thing,
              >
              > > there are no youth except for a few
              >
              > > that were brought up in eckankar
              >
              > > families.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.
              >
              > > I never met other eckist youth in school.
              >
              > > I felt embarrassed to even share the
              >
              > > teachings with my friends.... Why would
              >
              > > any youth feel comfortable doing that,
              >
              > > the other kids would think we were strange.
              >
              > > And to be honest, when I did share the religion
              >
              > > our family belonged to with friends, they told
              >
              > > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids
              >
              > > now a days are not that much different from
              >
              > > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)
              >
              > > Most youth that attend seminars, local events
              >
              > > etc, do so because their parents have hauled
              >
              > > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out
              >
              > > with kids their own age. When I was attending
              >
              > > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby
              >
              > > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted
              >
              > > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"
              >
              > > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call
              >
              > > it brainwashing?
              >
              > >
              >
              > > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar
              >
              > > conversation last night. She is agnostic and
              >
              > > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the
              >
              > > path. We believe something created "all this"
              >
              > > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like
              >
              > > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,
              >
              > > as I did in school, including mythology, and other
              >
              > > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,
              >
              > > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult
              >
              > > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because
              >
              > > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission
              >
              > > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some
              >
              > > many years? LOL
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Liska wrote:
              >
              > > When people try to hold events such as intro
              >
              > > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from
              >
              > > California told a story on soul forum about
              >
              > > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro
              >
              > > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on
              >
              > > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.
              >
              > > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these
              >
              > > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people
              >
              > > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Liska wrote:
              >
              > > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when
              >
              > > they couldn't get enough new People to come
              >
              > > to their events, the main office said there was
              >
              > > Something wrong with the way they were presenting
              >
              > > the message.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following
              >
              > > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's
              >
              > > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is
              >
              > > eckankar that people are not interested in,
              >
              > > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Liska wrote:
              >
              > > >They even had a long drawn out discussion
              >
              > > on soul forum trying to figure out why young
              >
              > > people aren't interested in Eckankar.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents
              >
              > > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,
              >
              > > and trying to break the family karmic bond....
              >
              > > At least that was how it was in my family!
              >
              > >
              >
              > > Liska wrote:
              >
              > > The low turnout at events, no youth,
              >
              > > increased charges for audio and
              >
              > > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the
              >
              > > heavy handed advertising for the
              >
              > > World Wide are all indicators that
              >
              > > finances aren't what they used to be.
              >
              > >
              >
              > > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't
              >
              > > what it used to be either! But you won't
              >
              > > be able to convince some of those eckist
              >
              > > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,
              >
              > > or should I say blue? ;-)
              >
              > >
              >
              > > No Love in Eck,
              >
              > > Liz
              >
              > >
              >
            • etznab@aol.com
              Liska, Thanks for sharing about that. I had no idea it existed. No, I don t think they would let me join. I m not a H.I. Etznab ... From: drubezarne
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Liska,

                Thanks for sharing about that. I had no
                idea it existed.

                No, I don't think they would let me join.
                I'm not a H.I.

                Etznab

                -----Original Message-----
                From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 5:53 pm
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot
                the Messenger!



                No, it's a Yahoo group that's only accessible to H.I.s they invite. I

                don't know what they're up to with this new forum group. Maybe they

                will let you join and you can tell us about it. The Yahoo group has

                been in existence for about 10 years. They claim to have over 90

                H.I.s. I think that they're also counting people like me that have

                left soul forum. H.I.s are susceptible to ego stroking like having

                titles, duties, and sacred duties (ha ha). You can see why they would

                find a secret forum with an elitist flavor delightful.



                Regards

                Liska



                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:

                >

                > Is that the same as

                >

                > http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/

                >

                > or another site altogether?

                >

                > Etznab

                >

                > -----Original Message-----

                > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>

                > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com

                > Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 4:57 pm

                > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't
                Shoot

                > the Messenger!

                >

                >

                >

                > Prometheus

                >

                >

                >

                > For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug
                Marman,

                >

                > Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with

                >

                > Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a

                >

                > conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off

                >

                > unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum.
                Many

                >

                > feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which
                only

                >

                > allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.

                >

                >

                >

                > Regards

                >

                > Liska

                >

                >

                >

                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"

                >

                > prometheus_973@ wrote:

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Hi Liz and Liska,

                >

                > > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"

                >

                > > Is it like the official/unofficial EK

                >

                > > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?

                >

                > > Who are the ones standing upon the

                >

                > > pedestals over there? Are they narrow

                >

                > > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and

                >

                > > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat

                >

                > > and Chela Chat?

                >

                > >

                >

                > > In the below comments you mentioned

                >

                > > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall

                >

                > > in CA. and that only three newcomers

                >

                > > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local

                >

                > > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and

                >

                > > family members! LOL!

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Of course, after several years of these EK

                >

                > > events how many friends and relatives are

                >

                > > left that are willing to go to these ECKie

                >

                > > events and waste their time and money.

                >

                > > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...

                >

                > > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive

                >

                > > over/down/up to California during the

                >

                > > week of the EK event and then sucker

                >

                > > them into attending "with you." Timing is

                >

                > > everything!

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Years ago I read and heard of where

                >

                > > one Satsang group in Miami was getting

                >

                > > some very high turnouts at EK events.

                >

                > > Of course, some of the numbers of "new

                >

                > > people" were really repeats and numbers

                >

                > > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but

                >

                > > the total number for a one year period

                >

                > > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What

                >

                > > was even more incredible was that ONLY

                >

                > > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK

                >

                > > Members from this incredibly large turnout

                >

                > > and effort!

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK

                >

                > > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that

                >

                > > they could present these high numbers

                >

                > > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is

                >

                > > the real reason (finally after all these years)

                >

                > > that there is now less effort being made

                >

                > > to have Regional EK Seminars and other

                >

                > > unrewarding expenditures of local EK

                >

                > > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon

                >

                > > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars

                >

                > > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for

                >

                > > things to trickle down to the troops in

                >

                > > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"

                >

                > > communication of a "higher" consciousness

                >

                > > (Klemp)! What a joke!

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Still, there is a suggested need for the

                >

                > > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to

                >

                > > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.

                >

                > > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really

                >

                > > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied

                >

                > > and distracted from thinking and asking

                >

                > > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense

                >

                > > of purpose, and to make them feel needed

                >

                > > by feeling good about themselves. It's also

                >

                > > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar

                >

                > > has become more like a self-help group.

                >

                > > It helps to teach chelas public speaking

                >

                > > skills and, thus, self confidence (like

                >

                > > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries

                >

                > > saving people (Souls), but they also become

                >

                > > more pious and deluded.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an

                >

                > > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well

                >

                > > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean

                >

                > > upon... forever!

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Prometheus

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Liska wrote:

                >

                > >

                >

                > > As for clues to how Eckankar is

                >

                > > doing one can judge by the turn

                >

                > > out at local events. For one thing,

                >

                > > there are no youth except for a few

                >

                > > that were brought up in eckankar

                >

                > > families.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.

                >

                > > I never met other eckist youth in school.

                >

                > > I felt embarrassed to even share the

                >

                > > teachings with my friends.... Why would

                >

                > > any youth feel comfortable doing that,

                >

                > > the other kids would think we were strange.

                >

                > > And to be honest, when I did share the religion

                >

                > > our family belonged to with friends, they told

                >

                > > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids

                >

                > > now a days are not that much different from

                >

                > > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)

                >

                > > Most youth that attend seminars, local events

                >

                > > etc, do so because their parents have hauled

                >

                > > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out

                >

                > > with kids their own age. When I was attending

                >

                > > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby

                >

                > > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted

                >

                > > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"

                >

                > > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call

                >

                > > it brainwashing?

                >

                > >

                >

                > > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar

                >

                > > conversation last night. She is agnostic and

                >

                > > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the

                >

                > > path. We believe something created "all this"

                >

                > > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like

                >

                > > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,

                >

                > > as I did in school, including mythology, and other

                >

                > > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,

                >

                > > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult

                >

                > > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because

                >

                > > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission

                >

                > > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some

                >

                > > many years? LOL

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Liska wrote:

                >

                > > When people try to hold events such as intro

                >

                > > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from

                >

                > > California told a story on soul forum about

                >

                > > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro

                >

                > > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on

                >

                > > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.

                >

                > > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these

                >

                > > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people

                >

                > > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Liska wrote:

                >

                > > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when

                >

                > > they couldn't get enough new People to come

                >

                > > to their events, the main office said there was

                >

                > > Something wrong with the way they were presenting

                >

                > > the message.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following

                >

                > > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's

                >

                > > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is

                >

                > > eckankar that people are not interested in,

                >

                > > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Liska wrote:

                >

                > > >They even had a long drawn out discussion

                >

                > > on soul forum trying to figure out why young

                >

                > > people aren't interested in Eckankar.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents

                >

                > > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,

                >

                > > and trying to break the family karmic bond....

                >

                > > At least that was how it was in my family!

                >

                > >

                >

                > > Liska wrote:

                >

                > > The low turnout at events, no youth,

                >

                > > increased charges for audio and

                >

                > > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the

                >

                > > heavy handed advertising for the

                >

                > > World Wide are all indicators that

                >

                > > finances aren't what they used to be.

                >

                > >

                >

                > > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't

                >

                > > what it used to be either! But you won't

                >

                > > be able to convince some of those eckist

                >

                > > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,

                >

                > > or should I say blue? ;-)

                >

                > >

                >

                > > No Love in Eck,

                >

                > > Liz

                >

                > >

                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hello Etznab and All, Just because you re not an H.I. doesn t mean you can t join. What do they require for membership... a quote from the most recent H.I.
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 5, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Etznab and All,
                  Just because you're not an H.I. doesn't
                  mean you can't join. What do they require
                  for membership... a quote from the most
                  recent H.I. Letter?

                  I guess they, also, may want your "real name"
                  and location so they can ask around about
                  you. Still, there are many H.I.s who aren't
                  in the EK spotlight and don't want to be.
                  They want their privacy.

                  And, I'm not sure that the ESC would provide
                  them membership info. Eckankar membership
                  info and one's "rank" are supposed to remain
                  private. Of course I could be wrong as to what
                  membership info is being shared. Klemp has
                  never really been specific on anything.

                  After all, at one time, ECKists were supposed
                  to keep their "spiritual stories" private as well,
                  and we can see how Klemp has "changed" that
                  policy too!

                  Prometheus


                  etznab@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Liska,
                  >
                  > Thanks for sharing about that. I had no
                  > idea it existed.
                  >
                  > No, I don't think they would let me join.
                  > I'm not a H.I.
                  >
                  > Etznab
                  >
                  Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot the Messenger!

                  No, it's a Yahoo group that's only accessible
                  to H.I.s they invite. I don't know what they're
                  up to with this new forum group. Maybe they
                  will let you join and you can tell us about it.
                  The Yahoo group has been in existence for
                  about 10 years. They claim to have over 90
                  H.I.s. I think that they're also counting people
                  like me that have left soul forum. H.I.s are
                  susceptible to ego stroking like having
                  titles, duties, and sacred duties (ha ha).
                  You can see why they would find a secret
                  forum with an elitist flavor delightful.

                  Regards
                  >
                  Liska
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