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Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot the Messenger!

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  • Elizabeth
    Hi Ingrid and everyone, I read the thread on chela chat too, see the snipped thread below! So silly really how they make excuses for how even $85 to listen
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 30, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Ingrid and everyone,
       
      I read the thread on chela chat too, see the snipped thread below!  So silly really how they make excuses for how even $85 to listen and watch klempankar's WW talk is still affordable when figuring how much they save by not having to fly in, get a hotel, pay for food etc...  Eventually there won't be enough chela's attending the seminars anyway, for Klempankar to make the sort of money he is accustomed to.  In the mean time this is just priming the pump.... Getting more people who have stopped attending, interested in this special deal on the net.
       
      So, what is the next thing that will come along once he has more of the membership spending their hard earned money attached to their computers listening and watching Klempster on the world wide web? (Which caused Klemp's sickness by the way)    The way of the near future for klempankar will be broadcasting via their own satellite channel.  They will purchase their own satellite and turn around and sell a program membership.  The package deal would be a one time cost of $5000 for a satellite, and installation by one of the nine silent ones. Plus a yearly fee of $2500 for the member to continue receiving the signal, also could be called "The Source" LOL.  It's going to be similar to what Amway has done.   That way a member can watch their godman 24/7 if they want.  ;-)  The org will then purchase air time programing from Dish network, DirectTv or even Comcast so the seekers will be able to benefit from the path, one Sunday a month for free. This will pull in even more members and then in turn the new members can purchase the satellite programing.  They could even conduct satsang classes, hu sings, etc via this type of service. 
       
      This would be more lucrative for the Klempster than paying to rent the convention center, haul all the crap to the location etc....  One thing I could never figure out is why they just didn't use the eck property, temple etc for their yearly WW and Spring time seminar? They could have built their own hotel / convention center right on the property with all that donation money they generate from the brainwashed eckies!  Heck they could even generate their own satellite power from their eckie hu chants, beam the source to the satellite in the sky..... "Live from the godman of the entire universe"  right to your living rooms. LOL
       
      Anyway I thought would be fun to share this from Chela Chat:

      Didn't Harold mention that there will be a psychic wave about "global
      Warming" in his last talk? Looks like some wave in form of pricing got
      To them regarding the broadcast of the WW. If you want audio and video
      it's now $85!

      Urs



      Re: Gas price/psychic wave

      I think Sri Harold may have used global warming as one example of the
      Psychic wave. Another example I can think of now is the political
      Elections in a number of countries around the world, including the
      USA. Another one is the wave of fear caused by all the destructive
      Hurricanes recently.

      ECK love, Linda



      Re: Gas price?

      What was the price before - $15? Now it's $35 for the audio.
      Actually, when you consider the cost of attending a WW in
      Person, including the suggested donation, airfare or gas,
      Hotel, food, and so forth, $35 will seem pretty tame. In that
      Same context, even $85 doesn't seem like such a bad deal, when
      You realize that you can listen to the broadcast AND view it
      More than once to get every last drop of the talk.

      I don't think the cost of membership has gone up for many
      Years, now, and the cost of attending the seminars has gone
      Up only slightly in the past decade. The abrupt rise in
      Price does seem rather large, but put in context, I think the
      Price is still competitive.

      As for comparing it with gasoline - you can't even fill most
      Cars with ONE tank of gas for $35. Our gas prices are high,
      But they are nothing compared with the prices in Europe and
      Other places in the world! <grin>

      Just pointing out the other side of the coin.

      ECK love, Linda


      Hi Linda,

      It was $25 of which a 40% increase comes to $35. I assume that most of
      Our incomes did not increase by 40% in the past 3 or 4 years. If you
      Want to dissect this economically Harold's talk in audio costs each
      Listener around $0.50 per minute, or almost one cent per second,
      Assuming it will be around 60-70 minutes. Of course one's perspective
      Matters here: I assume anyone in the Western world can skip 2 or 3 meals
      To come up with $35, but that will not be so easy in Third world
      Countries where $25 may have been more than a day's earnings, and I'm
      Not saying this is good or bad.

      The law of economy does include the issue of exclusion, one that may
      Even go beyond plain fear of exposure and/or vanity. It is very well
      Possible that Eckankar wants to discourage new members or interested
      Individuals from the teachings at this point. As stated before -- "but
      What do I know?"

      Here is Harold's definition of the law of economy:
      "Every move, every thought, everything we do gets the best advantage; it
      Results in the most productive deed we can do as Soul learning to be a
      Co-worker with God." (A Cosmic Sea of Words, page 64)

      This, again, has a couple of layers that make the law whole.

      Urs

      RE: [ChelaChat] Re: Gas price?

      It cost about 2500 USD to visit the Temple and the ww each time. That makes
      It 5000 a year. And then I add the 85 USD for a repeat. I tell you it is not
      Many nights out on restaurants partying like a lot of my Norwegian friends.
      It is dedicated planning and saving. But what I have learnt from the ECK
      Master has such a great value that it is impossible to me to give enough. On
      The other hand I try to serve the ECK as much as I am able to in this body.
      I have no car and only rents a flat. My children wonders why. Some day they
      Will find out. I do not know when. For many years I was extremely poor and
      Could not do this. Then I had to plan and save to buy a book and to hear the
      Masters talk for 15 USD. Now God has provided with money to travel to the
      Seminars. I am so happy.



      With love in ECK

      Niels-Jul


       
      **************************************************  
       
      Ingrid wrote:
       
      By the way, I found a very telling exchange among chelas on Chelachat, the original title was "Gas price?". Those of you who are on chelachat may want to check out the whole thread - I have copied and pasted the 3 first posts on the thread.

       

      Take care, Ingrid

       

      *******************************************

      Original post

      Didn't Harold mention that there will be a psychic wave about "global
      warming
      " in his last talk? Looks like some wave in form of pricing got
      to them regarding the broadcast of the WW.
      If you want audio and video
      it's now $85!

       

      Response

      What I can remember he talked about Governments and others will use the
      environment to spread fear in the society. He said the reasons behind it is
      to get hold of peoples money. He said don’t be afraid. Don’t let people
      scare you.

      My comment: Fear is one of the barriers to god realization. So if the
      government will try everything to get hold of your money DON’T WORRY. Money
      cannot give you god realization. The cannot take the spiritual exercises and
      your dreams from you.

      With love in ECK

       

      Response from author of original post

      if God-Realization could be bought ... It wouldn't be ;-)

      The gas-price-subject-line was more or less a tongue-in-cheek phrase on
      2 levels:
      At least in the US "higher gas prices" became a mantra of late for most
      everything -- like higher prices are the reason for bloated increases on
      stuff that is slightly related to oil if you stretch the psychic waves
      as far as you can. Then there is also the issue of pointing something
      out only to become affected by the exact same matter. Seems even a
      spiritual teaching is not excluded from this.



       
    • prometheus_973
      Change has to be more than a slogan (Barack Obama). But why does Klemp change (raise) EK WW broadcast costs? I know that Klemp said Change ($$$) is
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 30, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        "Change has to be more than a slogan"
        (Barack Obama). But why does Klemp
        "change" (raise) EK WW broadcast costs?
        I know that Klemp said "Change ($$$) is
        Change" ($$$), but Why NOW during an
        economic crisis? Is this how Klemp applies
        his (not Twitchell's) Law of Economy which
        is a KAListic law anyway! BTW-I wonder
        Why the "Law of Economy" isn't listed under
        "LAWS" in the Shariyats (the EK Holy Books)!

        It's interesting that Linda (Mettahu) mentions
        Psychic Wave and Klemp in the same sentence.
        Let's face it... HK's words, thoughts, and opinions
        (and the Psychic) are of the Lower Plane worlds
        of KAL!

        What's the point in having a LEM when he
        states nothing of any relevance. LEM Klemp
        is like having a Pope that won't retire when
        his time is over!

        BTW- I'm really surprised that Klemp hasn't
        done away with those costly Physical Plane
        seminars.

        IMO-What HK could still do is broadcast
        Monthly public, chela and H.I. talks along
        with Satsang classes, book discussions and
        Training seminars/workshops. All would
        have a separate cost (of course). Therefore,
        the money normally spent and channeled
        into the coffers of the airlines, hotels, and
        restaurants, etc. would be directly channeled
        into the Eckankar treasury (Klemp's off-shore
        accounts).

        Prometheus

        Liz wrote:
        Hi Ingrid and everyone,

        I read the thread on chela chat too,
        see the snipped thread below!
        So silly really how they make excuses
        for how even $85 to listen and watch
        klempankar's WW talk is still affordable
        when figuring how much they save by
        not having to fly in, get a hotel, pay for
        food etc... Eventually there won't be
        enough chela's attending the seminars
        anyway, for Klempankar to make the sort
        of money he is accustomed to. In the
        mean time this is just priming the pump....
        Getting more people who have stopped
        attending, interested in this special deal
        on the net.

        So, what is the next thing that will come
        along once he has more of the membership
        spending their hard earned money attached
        to their computers listening and watching
        Klempster on the world wide web? (Which
        caused Klemp's sickness by the way)

        The way of the near future for klempankar
        will be broadcasting via their own satellite
        channel. They will purchase their own satellite
        and turn around and sell a program membership.
        The package deal would be a one time cost
        of $5000 for a satellite, and installation by
        one of the nine silent ones. Plus a yearly fee
        of $2500 for the member to continue receiving
        the signal, also could be called "The Source"
        LOL. It's going to be similar to what Amway
        has done. That way a member can watch their
        godman 24/7 if they want. ;-) The org will
        then purchase air time programing from Dish
        network, DirectTv or even Comcast so the
        seekers will be able to benefit from the path,
        one Sunday a month for free. This will pull
        in even more members and then in turn the
        new members can purchase the satellite
        programing. They could even conduct satsang
        classes, hu sings, etc via this type of service.

        This would be more lucrative for the Klempster
        than paying to rent the convention center, haul
        all the crap to the location etc.... One thing
        I could never figure out is why they just didn't
        use the eck property, temple etc for their yearly
        WW and Spring time seminar? They could have
        built their own hotel / convention center right
        on the property with all that donation money
        they generate from the brainwashed eckies!
        Heck they could even generate their own satellite
        power from their eckie hu chants, beam the
        source to the satellite in the sky..... "Live
        from the godman of the entire universe"
        right to your living rooms. LOL

        Anyway I thought would be fun to share
        this from Chela Chat:

        *Didn't Harold mention that there will be
        a psychic wave about "global Warming"
        in his last talk? Looks like some wave in
        form of pricing got To them regarding the
        broadcast of the WW. If you want audio and
        video it's now $85!

        Urs

        http://www.eckankar.org/Broadcast/index.html


        Re: Gas price/psychic wave

        I think Sri Harold may have used global
        warming as one example of the Psychic
        wave. Another example I can think of
        now is the political Elections in a number
        of countries around the world, including
        the USA. Another one is the wave of fear
        caused by all the destructive Hurricanes
        recently.

        ECK love, Linda



        Re: Gas price?

        What was the price before - $15?
        Now it's $35 for the audio. Actually,
        when you consider the cost of attending
        a WW in Person, including the suggested
        donation, airfare or gas, Hotel, food, and
        so forth, $35 will seem pretty tame. In that
        Same context, even $85 doesn't seem like
        such a bad deal, when You realize that you
        can listen to the broadcast AND view it
        More than once to get every last drop of
        the talk.

        I don't think the cost of membership
        has gone up for many Years, now, and
        the cost of attending the seminars has
        gone Up only slightly in the past decade.
        The abrupt rise in Price does seem rather
        large, but put in context, I think the Price
        is still competitive.

        As for comparing it with gasoline - you
        can't even fill most Cars with ONE tank
        of gas for $35. Our gas prices are high,
        But they are nothing compared with the
        prices in Europe and Other places in the
        world! <grin>

        Just pointing out the other side of the coin.

        ECK love, Linda


        Hi Linda,

        It was $25 of which a 40% increase comes
        to $35. I assume that most of Our incomes
        did not increase by 40% in the past 3 or 4
        years. If you Want to dissect this economically
        Harold's talk in audio costs each Listener
        around $0.50 per minute, or almost one
        cent per second, Assuming it will be around
        60-70 minutes. Of course one's perspective
        Matters here: I assume anyone in the Western
        world can skip 2 or 3 meals To come up with
        $35, but that will not be so easy in Third
        world Countries where $25 may have been
        more than a day's earnings, and I'm Not saying
        this is good or bad.

        The law of economy does include the issue
        of exclusion, one that may Even go beyond
        plain fear of exposure and/or vanity. It is very
        well Possible that Eckankar wants to discourage
        new members or interested Individuals from
        the teachings at this point. As stated before --
        "but What do I know?"

        Here is Harold's definition of the law of
        economy: "Every move, every thought,
        everything we do gets the best advantage;
        it Results in the most productive deed we
        can do as Soul learning to be a Co-worker
        with God." (A Cosmic Sea of Words, page 64)

        This, again, has a couple of layers that
        make the law whole.

        Urs

        RE: [ChelaChat] Re: Gas price?

        It cost about 2500 USD to visit the Temple
        and the ww each time. That makes It 5000
        a year. And then I add the 85 USD for a
        repeat. I tell you it is not Many nights out
        on restaurants partying like a lot of my
        Norwegian friends. It is dedicated planning
        and saving. But what I have learnt from the
        ECK Master has such a great value that it is
        impossible to me to give enough. On The
        other hand I try to serve the ECK as much
        as I am able to in this body. I have no car
        and only rents a flat. My children wonders
        why. Some day they Will find out. I do not
        know when. For many years I was extremely
        poor and Could not do this. Then I had to
        plan and save to buy a book and to hear the
        Masters talk for 15 USD. Now God has provided
        with money to travel to the Seminars. I am
        so happy.

        With love in ECK

        Niels-Jul

        *******************************************

        Ingrid wrote:

        By the way, I found a very telling exchange
        among chelas on Chelachat, the original title
        was "Gas price?". Those of you who are on
        chelachat may want to check out the whole
        thread - I have copied and pasted the 3 first
        posts on the thread.


        Take care, Ingrid



        *******************************************

        Original post

        Didn't Harold mention that there will be
        a psychic wave about "global warming"
        in his last talk? Looks like some wave in
        form of pricing got to them regarding
        the broadcast of the WW. If you want
        audio and video it's now $85!



        Response

        What I can remember he talked about
        Governments and others will use the
        environment to spread fear in the society.
        He said the reasons behind it is to get hold
        of peoples money. He said don¢t be afraid.
        Don't let people scare you.

        My comment: Fear is one of the barriers
        to god realization. So if the government
        will try everything to get hold of your
        money DON¢T WORRY. Money cannot
        give you god realization. The cannot
        take the spiritual exercises and your
        dreams from you.

        With love in ECK



        Response from author of original post

        if God-Realization could be bought ...
        It wouldn't be ;-)

        The gas-price-subject-line was more
        or less a tongue-in-cheek phrase on
        2 levels:

        At least in the US "higher gas prices"
        became a mantra of late for most
        everything -- like higher prices are
        the reason for bloated increases on
        stuff that is slightly related to oil if
        you stretch the psychic waves as far
        as you can. Then there is also the
        issue of pointing something out only
        to become affected by the exact same
        matter. Seems even a spiritual teaching
        is not excluded from this.
      • etznab@aol.com
        E.S.A. It s just a guess, but I don t know what the annual income is compared to other years, and relative to new spending and building projects. There would
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 30, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          E.S.A.

          It's just a guess, but I don't know
          what the annual income is compared
          to other years, and relative to new
          spending and building projects.

          There would have to be an annual
          budget, I presume, just to keep every-
          thing running; for upkeep of the build-
          ings and employee wages.

          This is what I guess, that if annual
          donations don't remain constant, or
          begin to fall below what is required to
          run Eckankar annualy there would be
          a deficit. More money would be need-
          ed, somehow, someway, IMO.

          I can't judge what membership is
          like today compared to years past,
          but not every local Eck community
          is "growing" (taking on members)
          very fast, IMO. Some might even be
          getting smaller.

          Basically I'm saying that there is
          probably a "financial constant" for
          the running of Eckankar annualy.
          The headquarters, at least. There
          has probably been a relative level
          of "constant donations" too.

          My guess is that the general cost
          of things might be influenced by the
          relationship between what is coming
          in and what is going out. If you know
          what I mean.

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 7:15 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot
          the Messenger!



          "Change has to be more than a slogan"

          (Barack Obama). But why does20Klemp

          "change" (raise) EK WW broadcast costs?

          I know that Klemp said "Change ($$$) is

          Change" ($$$), but Why NOW during an

          economic crisis? Is this how Klemp applies

          his (not Twitchell's) Law of Economy which

          is a KAListic law anyway! BTW-I wonder

          Why the "Law of Economy" isn't listed under

          "LAWS" in the Shariyats (the EK Holy Books)!



          It's interesting that Linda (Mettahu) mentions

          Psychic Wave and Klemp in the same sentence.

          Let's face it... HK's words, thoughts, and opinions

          (and the Psychic) are of the Lower Plane worlds

          of KAL!



          What's the point in having a LEM when he

          states nothing of any relevance. LEM Klemp

          is like having a Pope that won't retire when

          his time is over!



          BTW- I'm really surprised that Klemp hasn't

          done away with those costly Physical Plane

          seminars.



          IMO-What HK could still do is broadcast

          Monthly public, chela and H.I. talks along

          with Satsang classes, book discussions and

          Training seminars/workshops. All would

          have a separate cost (of course). Therefore,

          the money normally spent and channeled

          into the coffers of the airlines, hotels, and

          restaurants, etc. would be directly channeled

          into the Eckankar treasury (Klemp's off-shore

          accounts).



          Prometheus



          Liz wrote:

          Hi Ingrid and everyone,



          I read the thread on
          chela chat too,

          see the snipped thread below!

          So silly really how they make excuses

          for how even $85 to listen and watch

          klempankar's WW talk is still affordable

          when figuring how much they save by

          not having to fly in, get a hotel, pay for

          food etc... Eventually there won't be

          enough chela's attending the seminars

          anyway, for Klempankar to make the sort

          of money he is accustomed to. In the

          mean time this is just priming the pump....

          Getting more people who have stopped

          attending, interested in this special deal

          on the net.



          So, what is the next thing that will come

          along once he has more of the membership

          spending their hard earned money attached

          to their computers listening and watching

          Klempster on the world wide web? (Which

          caused Klemp's sickness by the way)



          The way of the near future for klempankar

          will be broadcasting via their own satellite

          channel. They will purchase their own satellite

          and turn around and sell a program membership.

          The package deal would be a one time cost

          of $5000 for a satellite, and installation by

          one of the nine silent ones. Plus a yearly fee

          of $2500 for the member to continue receiving

          the signal, also could be called "The Source"

          LOL. It's going to be similar to what Amway

          has done. That way a member can watch their


          godman 24/7 if they want. ;-) The org will

          then purchase air time programing from Dish

          network, DirectTv or even Comcast so the

          seekers will be able to benefit from the path,

          one Sunday a month for free. This will pull

          in even more members and then in turn the

          new members can purchase the satellite

          programing. They could even conduct satsang

          classes, hu sings, etc via this type of service.



          This would be more lucrative for the Klempster

          than paying to rent the convention center, haul

          all the crap to the location etc.... One thing

          I could never figure out is why they just didn't

          use the eck property, temple etc for their yearly

          WW and Spring time seminar? They could have

          built their own hotel / convention center right

          on the property with all that donation money

          they generate from the brainwashed eckies!

          Heck they could even generate their own satellite

          power from their eckie hu chants, beam the

          source to the satellite in the sky..... "Live

          from the godman of the entire universe"

          right to your living rooms. LOL



          Anyway I thought would be fun to share

          this from Chela Chat:



          *Didn't Harold mention that there will be

          a psychic wave about "global Warming"

          in his last talk? Looks like some wave in

          form of pricing got To them regarding the

          broadcast of the WW. If
          you want audio and

          video it's now $85!



          Urs



          http://www.eckankar.org/Broadcast/index.html



          Re: Gas price/psychic wave



          I think Sri Harold may have used global

          warming as one example of the Psychic

          wave. Another example I can think of

          now is the political Elections in a number

          of countries around the world, including

          the USA. Another one is the wave of fear

          caused by all the destructive Hurricanes

          recently.



          ECK love, Linda



          Re: Gas price?



          What was the price before - $15?

          Now it's $35 for the audio. Actually,

          when you consider the cost of attending

          a WW in Person, including the suggested

          donation, airfare or gas, Hotel, food, and

          so forth, $35 will seem pretty tame. In that

          Same context, even $85 doesn't seem like

          such a bad deal, when You realize that you

          can listen to the broadcast AND view it

          More than once to get every last drop of

          the talk.



          I don't think the cost of membership

          has gone up for many Years, now, and

          the cost of attending the seminars has

          gone Up only slightly in the past decade.

          The abrupt rise in Price does seem rather

          large, but put in context, I think the Price

          is still competitive.



          As for comparing it with gasoline - you

          can't even fill most Cars with ONE tank
          0A
          of gas for $35. Our gas prices are high,

          But they are nothing compared with the

          prices in Europe and Other places in the

          world! <grin>



          Just pointing out the other side of the coin.



          ECK love, Linda



          Hi Linda,



          It was $25 of which a 40% increase comes

          to $35. I assume that most of Our incomes

          did not increase by 40% in the past 3 or 4

          years. If you Want to dissect this economically

          Harold's talk in audio costs each Listener

          around $0.50 per minute, or almost one

          cent per second, Assuming it will be around

          60-70 minutes. Of course one's perspective

          Matters here: I assume anyone in the Western

          world can skip 2 or 3 meals To come up with

          $35, but that will not be so easy in Third

          world Countries where $25 may have been

          more than a day's earnings, and I'm Not saying

          this is good or bad.



          The law of economy does include the issue

          of exclusion, one that may Even go beyond

          plain fear of exposure and/or vanity. It is very

          well Possible that Eckankar wants to discourage

          new members or interested Individuals from

          the teachings at this point. As stated before --

          "but What do I know?"



          Here is Harold's definition of the law of

          economy: "Every move, every thought,

          everything we do gets the best advantage;

          it Results in th
          e most productive deed we

          can do as Soul learning to be a Co-worker

          with God." (A Cosmic Sea of Words, page 64)



          This, again, has a couple of layers that

          make the law whole.



          Urs



          RE: [ChelaChat] Re: Gas price?



          It cost about 2500 USD to visit the Temple

          and the ww each time. That makes It 5000

          a year. And then I add the 85 USD for a

          repeat. I tell you it is not Many nights out

          on restaurants partying like a lot of my

          Norwegian friends. It is dedicated planning

          and saving. But what I have learnt from the

          ECK Master has such a great value that it is

          impossible to me to give enough. On The

          other hand I try to serve the ECK as much

          as I am able to in this body. I have no car

          and only rents a flat. My children wonders

          why. Some day they Will find out. I do not

          know when. For many years I was extremely

          poor and Could not do this. Then I had to

          plan and save to buy a book and to hear the

          Masters talk for 15 USD. Now God has provided

          with money to travel to the Seminars. I am

          so happy.



          With love in ECK



          Niels-Jul



          *******************************************



          Ingrid wrote:



          By the way, I found a very telling exchange

          among chelas on Chelachat, the original title

          was "Gas price
          ?". Those of you who are on

          chelachat may want to check out the whole

          thread - I have copied and pasted the 3 first

          posts on the thread.





          Take care, Ingrid



          *******************************************



          Original post



          Didn't Harold mention that there will be

          a psychic wave about "global warming"

          in his last talk? Looks like some wave in

          form of pricing got to them regarding

          the broadcast of the WW. If you want

          audio and video it's now $85!



          Response



          What I can remember he talked about

          Governments and others will use the

          environment to spread fear in the society.

          He said the reasons behind it is to get hold

          of peoples money. He said don¢t be afraid.

          Don't let people scare you.



          My comment: Fear is one of the barriers

          to god realization. So if the government

          will try everything to get hold of your

          money DON¢T WORRY. Money cannot

          give you god realization. The cannot

          take the spiritual exercises and your

          dreams from you.



          With love in ECK



          Response from author of original post



          if God-Realization could be bought ...

          It wouldn't be ;-)



          The gas-price-subject-line was more

          or less a tongue-in-cheek phrase on

          2 levels:



          At least in the US "higher gas prices"

          0Abecame a mantra of late for most

          everything -- like higher prices are

          the reason for bloated increases on

          stuff that is slightly related to oil if

          you stretch the psychic waves as far

          as you can. Then there is also the

          issue of pointing something out only

          to become affected by the exact same

          matter. Seems even a spiritual teaching

          is not excluded from this.
        • Elizabeth
          Don t forget some of the eck members have made Klempankar their beneficiary on life insurance policies.... The $ amount generated could be astronomical based
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 30, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Don't forget some of the eck members have made Klempankar their beneficiary on life insurance policies.... The $ amount generated could be astronomical based on donations from someone's translation alone! Not to mention the HI's that promise to donate at least half of their lottery winnings, or gambling winnings while at the casinos being clear channels for the eck...      ;-)
             
             
             
            -------Original Message-------
             
            Date: 9/30/2008 8:29:34 PM
            Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot the Messenger!
             
            E.S.A.
             
               It's just a guess, but I don't know
            what the annual income is compared
            to other years, and relative to new
            spending and building projects.
             
               There would have to be an annual
            budget, I presume, just to keep every-
            thing running; for upkeep of the build-
            ings and employee wages.
             
               This is what I guess, that if annual
            donations don't remain constant, or
            begin to fall below what is required to
            run Eckankar annualy there would be
            A deficit. More money would be need-
            ed, somehow, someway, IMO.
             
               I can't judge what membership is
            like today compared to years past,
            but not every local Eck community
            is "growing" (taking on members)
            very fast, IMO. Some might even be
            getting smaller.
             
               Basically I'm saying that there is
            probably a "financial constant" for
            the running of Eckankar annualy.
            The headquarters, at least. There
            has probably been a relative level
            of "constant donations" too.
             
               My guess is that the general cost
            of things might be influenced by the
            relationship between what is coming
            in and what is going out. If you know
            what I mean.
             
            Etznab
             
          • mishmisha9
            Hi, All! I actually wonder why they built such a garish temple when it is so little used. It s kind of like a tomb with a few live bodies (workers) moving
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 30, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi, All!

              I actually wonder why they built such a garish temple
              when it is so little used. It's kind of like a tomb with a
              few live bodies (workers) moving around in it. It just
              doesn't seem that the buildings are well utilized to justify
              the expense of building and maintaining the temple and
              the other structures.

              As to increasing costs for their merchandise, that doesn't
              seem wise either when so many chelas are struggling to
              maintain the status quo. Well, many eckists are used to
              being poor and doing without . . . one day, perhaps, they
              will realize they can do without Klemp and eckankar too!

              Mish

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
              >
              > E.S.A.
              >
              > It's just a guess, but I don't know
              > what the annual income is compared
              > to other years, and relative to new
              > spending and building projects.
              >
              > There would have to be an annual
              > budget, I presume, just to keep every-
              > thing running; for upkeep of the build-
              > ings and employee wages.
              >
              > This is what I guess, that if annual
              > donations don't remain constant, or
              > begin to fall below what is required to
              > run Eckankar annualy there would be
              > a deficit. More money would be need-
              > ed, somehow, someway, IMO.
              >
              > I can't judge what membership is
              > like today compared to years past,
              > but not every local Eck community
              > is "growing" (taking on members)
              > very fast, IMO. Some might even be
              > getting smaller.
              >
              > Basically I'm saying that there is
              > probably a "financial constant" for
              > the running of Eckankar annualy.
              > The headquarters, at least. There
              > has probably been a relative level
              > of "constant donations" too.
              >
              > My guess is that the general cost
              > of things might be influenced by the
              > relationship between what is coming
              > in and what is going out. If you know
              > what I mean.
              >
              > Etznab
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 7:15 pm
              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot
              > the Messenger!
              >
              >
              >
              > "Change has to be more than a slogan"
              >
              > (Barack Obama). But why does20Klemp
              >
              > "change" (raise) EK WW broadcast costs?
              >
              > I know that Klemp said "Change ($$$) is
              >
              > Change" ($$$), but Why NOW during an
              >
              > economic crisis? Is this how Klemp applies
              >
              > his (not Twitchell's) Law of Economy which
              >
              > is a KAListic law anyway! BTW-I wonder
              >
              > Why the "Law of Economy" isn't listed under
              >
              > "LAWS" in the Shariyats (the EK Holy Books)!
              >
              >
              >
              > It's interesting that Linda (Mettahu) mentions
              >
              > Psychic Wave and Klemp in the same sentence.
              >
              > Let's face it... HK's words, thoughts, and opinions
              >
              > (and the Psychic) are of the Lower Plane worlds
              >
              > of KAL!
              >
              >
              >
              > What's the point in having a LEM when he
              >
              > states nothing of any relevance. LEM Klemp
              >
              > is like having a Pope that won't retire when
              >
              > his time is over!
              >
              >
              >
              > BTW- I'm really surprised that Klemp hasn't
              >
              > done away with those costly Physical Plane
              >
              > seminars.
              >
              >
              >
              > IMO-What HK could still do is broadcast
              >
              > Monthly public, chela and H.I. talks along
              >
              > with Satsang classes, book discussions and
              >
              > Training seminars/workshops. All would
              >
              > have a separate cost (of course). Therefore,
              >
              > the money normally spent and channeled
              >
              > into the coffers of the airlines, hotels, and
              >
              > restaurants, etc. would be directly channeled
              >
              > into the Eckankar treasury (Klemp's off-shore
              >
              > accounts).
              >
              >
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              >
              > Liz wrote:
              >
              > Hi Ingrid and everyone,
              >
              >
              >
              > I read the thread on
              > chela chat too,
              >
              > see the snipped thread below!
              >
              > So silly really how they make excuses
              >
              > for how even $85 to listen and watch
              >
              > klempankar's WW talk is still affordable
              >
              > when figuring how much they save by
              >
              > not having to fly in, get a hotel, pay for
              >
              > food etc... Eventually there won't be
              >
              > enough chela's attending the seminars
              >
              > anyway, for Klempankar to make the sort
              >
              > of money he is accustomed to. In the
              >
              > mean time this is just priming the pump....
              >
              > Getting more people who have stopped
              >
              > attending, interested in this special deal
              >
              > on the net.
              >
              >
              >
              > So, what is the next thing that will come
              >
              > along once he has more of the membership
              >
              > spending their hard earned money attached
              >
              > to their computers listening and watching
              >
              > Klempster on the world wide web? (Which
              >
              > caused Klemp's sickness by the way)
              >
              >
              >
              > The way of the near future for klempankar
              >
              > will be broadcasting via their own satellite
              >
              > channel. They will purchase their own satellite
              >
              > and turn around and sell a program membership.
              >
              > The package deal would be a one time cost
              >
              > of $5000 for a satellite, and installation by
              >
              > one of the nine silent ones. Plus a yearly fee
              >
              > of $2500 for the member to continue receiving
              >
              > the signal, also could be called "The Source"
              >
              > LOL. It's going to be similar to what Amway
              >
              > has done. That way a member can watch their
              >
              >
              > godman 24/7 if they want. ;-) The org will
              >
              > then purchase air time programing from Dish
              >
              > network, DirectTv or even Comcast so the
              >
              > seekers will be able to benefit from the path,
              >
              > one Sunday a month for free. This will pull
              >
              > in even more members and then in turn the
              >
              > new members can purchase the satellite
              >
              > programing. They could even conduct satsang
              >
              > classes, hu sings, etc via this type of service.
              >
              >
              >
              > This would be more lucrative for the Klempster
              >
              > than paying to rent the convention center, haul
              >
              > all the crap to the location etc.... One thing
              >
              > I could never figure out is why they just didn't
              >
              > use the eck property, temple etc for their yearly
              >
              > WW and Spring time seminar? They could have
              >
              > built their own hotel / convention center right
              >
              > on the property with all that donation money
              >
              > they generate from the brainwashed eckies!
              >
              > Heck they could even generate their own satellite
              >
              > power from their eckie hu chants, beam the
              >
              > source to the satellite in the sky..... "Live
              >
              > from the godman of the entire universe"
              >
              > right to your living rooms. LOL
              >
              >
              >
              > Anyway I thought would be fun to share
              >
              > this from Chela Chat:
              >
              >
              >
              > *Didn't Harold mention that there will be
              >
              > a psychic wave about "global Warming"
              >
              > in his last talk? Looks like some wave in
              >
              > form of pricing got To them regarding the
              >
              > broadcast of the WW. If
              > you want audio and
              >
              > video it's now $85!
              >
              >
              >
              > Urs
              >
              >
              >
              > http://www.eckankar.org/Broadcast/index.html
              >
              >
              >
              > Re: Gas price/psychic wave
              >
              >
              >
              > I think Sri Harold may have used global
              >
              > warming as one example of the Psychic
              >
              > wave. Another example I can think of
              >
              > now is the political Elections in a number
              >
              > of countries around the world, including
              >
              > the USA. Another one is the wave of fear
              >
              > caused by all the destructive Hurricanes
              >
              > recently.
              >
              >
              >
              > ECK love, Linda
              >
              >
              >
              > Re: Gas price?
              >
              >
              >
              > What was the price before - $15?
              >
              > Now it's $35 for the audio. Actually,
              >
              > when you consider the cost of attending
              >
              > a WW in Person, including the suggested
              >
              > donation, airfare or gas, Hotel, food, and
              >
              > so forth, $35 will seem pretty tame. In that
              >
              > Same context, even $85 doesn't seem like
              >
              > such a bad deal, when You realize that you
              >
              > can listen to the broadcast AND view it
              >
              > More than once to get every last drop of
              >
              > the talk.
              >
              >
              >
              > I don't think the cost of membership
              >
              > has gone up for many Years, now, and
              >
              > the cost of attending the seminars has
              >
              > gone Up only slightly in the past decade.
              >
              > The abrupt rise in Price does seem rather
              >
              > large, but put in context, I think the Price
              >
              > is still competitive.
              >
              >
              >
              > As for comparing it with gasoline - you
              >
              > can't even fill most Cars with ONE tank
              > 0A
              > of gas for $35. Our gas prices are high,
              >
              > But they are nothing compared with the
              >
              > prices in Europe and Other places in the
              >
              > world! <grin>
              >
              >
              >
              > Just pointing out the other side of the coin.
              >
              >
              >
              > ECK love, Linda
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Linda,
              >
              >
              >
              > It was $25 of which a 40% increase comes
              >
              > to $35. I assume that most of Our incomes
              >
              > did not increase by 40% in the past 3 or 4
              >
              > years. If you Want to dissect this economically
              >
              > Harold's talk in audio costs each Listener
              >
              > around $0.50 per minute, or almost one
              >
              > cent per second, Assuming it will be around
              >
              > 60-70 minutes. Of course one's perspective
              >
              > Matters here: I assume anyone in the Western
              >
              > world can skip 2 or 3 meals To come up with
              >
              > $35, but that will not be so easy in Third
              >
              > world Countries where $25 may have been
              >
              > more than a day's earnings, and I'm Not saying
              >
              > this is good or bad.
              >
              >
              >
              > The law of economy does include the issue
              >
              > of exclusion, one that may Even go beyond
              >
              > plain fear of exposure and/or vanity. It is very
              >
              > well Possible that Eckankar wants to discourage
              >
              > new members or interested Individuals from
              >
              > the teachings at this point. As stated before --
              >
              > "but What do I know?"
              >
              >
              >
              > Here is Harold's definition of the law of
              >
              > economy: "Every move, every thought,
              >
              > everything we do gets the best advantage;
              >
              > it Results in th
              > e most productive deed we
              >
              > can do as Soul learning to be a Co-worker
              >
              > with God." (A Cosmic Sea of Words, page 64)
              >
              >
              >
              > This, again, has a couple of layers that
              >
              > make the law whole.
              >
              >
              >
              > Urs
              >
              >
              >
              > RE: [ChelaChat] Re: Gas price?
              >
              >
              >
              > It cost about 2500 USD to visit the Temple
              >
              > and the ww each time. That makes It 5000
              >
              > a year. And then I add the 85 USD for a
              >
              > repeat. I tell you it is not Many nights out
              >
              > on restaurants partying like a lot of my
              >
              > Norwegian friends. It is dedicated planning
              >
              > and saving. But what I have learnt from the
              >
              > ECK Master has such a great value that it is
              >
              > impossible to me to give enough. On The
              >
              > other hand I try to serve the ECK as much
              >
              > as I am able to in this body. I have no car
              >
              > and only rents a flat. My children wonders
              >
              > why. Some day they Will find out. I do not
              >
              > know when. For many years I was extremely
              >
              > poor and Could not do this. Then I had to
              >
              > plan and save to buy a book and to hear the
              >
              > Masters talk for 15 USD. Now God has provided
              >
              > with money to travel to the Seminars. I am
              >
              > so happy.
              >
              >
              >
              > With love in ECK
              >
              >
              >
              > Niels-Jul
              >
              >
              >
              > *******************************************
              >
              >
              >
              > Ingrid wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > By the way, I found a very telling exchange
              >
              > among chelas on Chelachat, the original title
              >
              > was "Gas price
              > ?". Those of you who are on
              >
              > chelachat may want to check out the whole
              >
              > thread - I have copied and pasted the 3 first
              >
              > posts on the thread.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Take care, Ingrid
              >
              >
              >
              > *******************************************
              >
              >
              >
              > Original post
              >
              >
              >
              > Didn't Harold mention that there will be
              >
              > a psychic wave about "global warming"
              >
              > in his last talk? Looks like some wave in
              >
              > form of pricing got to them regarding
              >
              > the broadcast of the WW. If you want
              >
              > audio and video it's now $85!
              >
              >
              >
              > Response
              >
              >
              >
              > What I can remember he talked about
              >
              > Governments and others will use the
              >
              > environment to spread fear in the society.
              >
              > He said the reasons behind it is to get hold
              >
              > of peoples money. He said don¢t be afraid.
              >
              > Don't let people scare you.
              >
              >
              >
              > My comment: Fear is one of the barriers
              >
              > to god realization. So if the government
              >
              > will try everything to get hold of your
              >
              > money DON¢T WORRY. Money cannot
              >
              > give you god realization. The cannot
              >
              > take the spiritual exercises and your
              >
              > dreams from you.
              >
              >
              >
              > With love in ECK
              >
              >
              >
              > Response from author of original post
              >
              >
              >
              > if God-Realization could be bought ...
              >
              > It wouldn't be ;-)
              >
              >
              >
              > The gas-price-subject-line was more
              >
              > or less a tongue-in-cheek phrase on
              >
              > 2 levels:
              >
              >
              >
              > At least in the US "higher gas prices"
              >
              > 0Abecame a mantra of late for most
              >
              > everything -- like higher prices are
              >
              > the reason for bloated increases on
              >
              > stuff that is slightly related to oil if
              >
              > you stretch the psychic waves as far
              >
              > as you can. Then there is also the
              >
              > issue of pointing something out only
              >
              > to become affected by the exact same
              >
              > matter. Seems even a spiritual teaching
              >
              > is not excluded from this.
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Mish and All, Eckankar sales has probably dropped to about $2.5 million in annual membership and seminar donations worldwide. There is probably $500K per
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 30, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Mish and All,
                Eckankar sales has probably dropped
                to about $2.5 million in annual
                membership and seminar donations
                worldwide. There is probably $500K
                per year in total projected material
                sales, but IMO this has fallen short
                to less than $300K. Of course, there
                are also those misc. gifted donations
                too that add to the treasury.

                I doubt that payroll and operating
                expenses (insurance, etc.) and equipment
                costs, etc. would be more than $1.5
                million in a normal year. And, since
                the EK church is tax exempt this helps
                to keep the overall operating costs
                low. Of course, this doesn't take into
                consideration the Klemps' salaries
                (retirement and other perks) or Peter's!

                And, let's face it... Seminars are Not
                money makers and this is why Regionals
                are being cancelled. These seminars
                deplete funds and don't bring in enough
                new members or sell enough materials
                to justify their existence. Before, each
                state or foreign country was to have
                one or two regional seminars per year!

                There is a real cash flow problem in
                Eckankar and this is why Klemp and
                Company are coming up with new ideas
                on how to bring in new money. The new
                photo with Klemp's goofy gaze and the
                increased costs on Internet Seminar
                talks are just the beginning.

                I suggested years ago that there be
                Condos built with shops (EK businesses)
                on the Temple grounds. Really, how much
                would that cost? Wouldn't that be a great
                money making tax exempt investment
                that would benefit everyone? Why is Klemp
                so fearful and/or stingy and has No vision
                for a real EK community? I guess Klemp
                wouldn't want to live near his chelas...
                after all HK's No Rebazar... but who is!

                Prometheus

                mish wrote:

                Hi, All!
                >
                I actually wonder why they built such
                a garish temple when it is so little used.
                It's kind of like a tomb with a few live
                bodies (workers) moving around in it.
                It just doesn't seem that the buildings
                are well utilized to justify the expense
                of building and maintaining the temple
                and the other structures.
                >
                As to increasing costs for their merchandise,
                that doesn't seem wise either when so many
                chelas are struggling to maintain the status
                quo. Well, many eckists are used to being poor
                and doing without . . . one day, perhaps, they
                will realize they can do without Klemp and eckankar
                too!

                Mish
                >
                etznab wrote:
                > >
                E.S.A.
                > >
                It's just a guess, but I don't know
                what the annual income is compared
                to other years, and relative to new
                spending and building projects.
                > >
                There would have to be an annual
                budget, I presume, just to keep
                everything running; for upkeep
                of the buildings and employee wages.
                > >
                This is what I guess, that if annual
                donations don't remain constant, or
                begin to fall below what is required to
                run Eckankar annualy there would be
                a deficit. More money would be needed,
                somehow, someway, IMO.
                > >
                I can't judge what membership is
                like today compared to years past,
                but not every local Eck community
                is "growing" (taking on members)
                very fast, IMO. Some might even be
                getting smaller.
                > >
                Basically I'm saying that there is
                probably a "financial constant" for
                the running of Eckankar annually.
                The headquarters, at least. There
                has probably been a relative level
                of "constant donations" too.
                > >
                My guess is that the general cost
                of things might be influenced by the
                relationship between what is coming
                in and what is going out. If you know
                what I mean.
                > >
                Etznab
              • drubezarne
                Since Eckankar is one of the most secretive organizations, it s really hard to say how they are doing financially. We used to wonder why they never sent us
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 1, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Since Eckankar is one of the most secretive organizations, it's really
                  hard to say how they are doing financially. We used to wonder why they
                  never sent us annual statements like other religions. I heard they
                  moved to Minneapolis to avoid revealing their finances because of
                  California laws. All this secret money stuff should be enough of a
                  clue that there's something wrong with this group.

                  As for clues to how Eckankar is doing one can judge by the turn out at
                  local events. For one thing, there are no youth except for a few that
                  were brought up in eckankar families.

                  When people try to hold events such as intro talks hardly anybody
                  shows up. One H.I. from California told a story on soul forum about
                  renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro talk. His group
                  advertised in the papers, on the radio, and put up posters all over
                  the place. When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.

                  H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when they couldn't get enough new
                  people to come to their events, the main office said there was
                  something wrong with the way they were presenting the message.

                  They even had a long drawn out discussion on soul forum trying to
                  figure out why young people aren't interested in Eckankar.

                  The low turnout at events, no youth, increased charges for audio and
                  video broadcasts of Klemp, and the heavy handed advertising for the
                  World Wide are all indicators that finances aren't what they used to be.

                  Regards
                  Liska

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                  <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Mish and All,
                  > Eckankar sales has probably dropped
                  > to about $2.5 million in annual
                  > membership and seminar donations
                  > worldwide. There is probably $500K
                  > per year in total projected material
                  > sales, but IMO this has fallen short
                  > to less than $300K. Of course, there
                  > are also those misc. gifted donations
                  > too that add to the treasury.
                  >
                  > I doubt that payroll and operating
                  > expenses (insurance, etc.) and equipment
                  > costs, etc. would be more than $1.5
                  > million in a normal year. And, since
                  > the EK church is tax exempt this helps
                  > to keep the overall operating costs
                  > low. Of course, this doesn't take into
                  > consideration the Klemps' salaries
                  > (retirement and other perks) or Peter's!
                  >
                  > And, let's face it... Seminars are Not
                  > money makers and this is why Regionals
                  > are being cancelled. These seminars
                  > deplete funds and don't bring in enough
                  > new members or sell enough materials
                  > to justify their existence. Before, each
                  > state or foreign country was to have
                  > one or two regional seminars per year!
                  >
                  > There is a real cash flow problem in
                  > Eckankar and this is why Klemp and
                  > Company are coming up with new ideas
                  > on how to bring in new money. The new
                  > photo with Klemp's goofy gaze and the
                  > increased costs on Internet Seminar
                  > talks are just the beginning.
                  >
                  > I suggested years ago that there be
                  > Condos built with shops (EK businesses)
                  > on the Temple grounds. Really, how much
                  > would that cost? Wouldn't that be a great
                  > money making tax exempt investment
                  > that would benefit everyone? Why is Klemp
                  > so fearful and/or stingy and has No vision
                  > for a real EK community? I guess Klemp
                  > wouldn't want to live near his chelas...
                  > after all HK's No Rebazar... but who is!
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > mish wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi, All!
                  > >
                  > I actually wonder why they built such
                  > a garish temple when it is so little used.
                  > It's kind of like a tomb with a few live
                  > bodies (workers) moving around in it.
                  > It just doesn't seem that the buildings
                  > are well utilized to justify the expense
                  > of building and maintaining the temple
                  > and the other structures.
                  > >
                  > As to increasing costs for their merchandise,
                  > that doesn't seem wise either when so many
                  > chelas are struggling to maintain the status
                  > quo. Well, many eckists are used to being poor
                  > and doing without . . . one day, perhaps, they
                  > will realize they can do without Klemp and eckankar
                  > too!
                  >
                  > Mish
                  > >
                  > etznab wrote:
                  > > >
                  > E.S.A.
                  > > >
                  > It's just a guess, but I don't know
                  > what the annual income is compared
                  > to other years, and relative to new
                  > spending and building projects.
                  > > >
                  > There would have to be an annual
                  > budget, I presume, just to keep
                  > everything running; for upkeep
                  > of the buildings and employee wages.
                  > > >
                  > This is what I guess, that if annual
                  > donations don't remain constant, or
                  > begin to fall below what is required to
                  > run Eckankar annualy there would be
                  > a deficit. More money would be needed,
                  > somehow, someway, IMO.
                  > > >
                  > I can't judge what membership is
                  > like today compared to years past,
                  > but not every local Eck community
                  > is "growing" (taking on members)
                  > very fast, IMO. Some might even be
                  > getting smaller.
                  > > >
                  > Basically I'm saying that there is
                  > probably a "financial constant" for
                  > the running of Eckankar annually.
                  > The headquarters, at least. There
                  > has probably been a relative level
                  > of "constant donations" too.
                  > > >
                  > My guess is that the general cost
                  > of things might be influenced by the
                  > relationship between what is coming
                  > in and what is going out. If you know
                  > what I mean.
                  > > >
                  > Etznab
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello Liska and All, It s really hard to know how much EK money Klemp has squirreled away. I made some guesses at the amounts of monies that are NOW being
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 1, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello Liska and All,
                    It's really hard to know how much
                    EK money Klemp has squirreled
                    away. I made some guesses at the
                    amounts of monies that are NOW
                    being brought in and spent, but
                    how much has been accumulated
                    over time?

                    The main EK Org has money in
                    banks, in stocks, bonds, and
                    property, but the Satsang
                    Societies (SS) have money in banks
                    and invested too! With around
                    100 Satsang Societies it is hard
                    to know how much, of the ESC's
                    money, that Satsang Societies
                    still have in their possession.

                    At one time the local Satsang Societies
                    were accumulating money in "Building
                    Funds." I'm wondering if this has changed.
                    And, since local EK Regional Seminars
                    are declining the money used for these
                    is Not being spent.

                    Also, more money might be accumulating,
                    locally, since money is usually Not spent
                    on keeping local ECK Centers open. Local
                    EK Centers are to be self-sufficient. Thus,
                    the low number of local EK Centers. Klemp
                    doesn't really want (his) money spent in
                    this fashion. That's, also, why Klemp has
                    separate funds like a Missionary Fund and
                    a Building Fund! Why spend all of his (LEM)
                    money on these things when chelas spend
                    more of their money!

                    Also, even when there were more Regional
                    Seminars many RESAs of these Satsang
                    Societies were encouraged (by Peter & Klemp)
                    to sent in a yearly amount (like a donation)
                    to the ESC from their Satsang's funds.
                    These were considered to be "excess funds."

                    Even Bob Lawton's Connecticut Satsang
                    Society gives a yearly amount to the ESC.
                    And they have a "Temple" to fund! The ESC
                    even printed a picture once, in the Mystic
                    World, of Bob and some chelas handing over
                    a check for $2000 or so! How proud they
                    were!

                    If every (100) Satsang Society gave $1000
                    per year that would be an extra $1 million
                    coming in (to Klemp). Many local ECKists
                    aren't even informed by their RESAs that
                    their "extra" money is being sent to the ESC!

                    Many ECKists, still, don't realize that ALL
                    SATSANG SOCIETY MONEY belongs to
                    ECKANKAR! It's Not their money or their
                    TV's or their Tables, etc.... it ALL belongs
                    to Eckankar!

                    Here's a good one. Even the books, photos,
                    CDs, tapes, jewelry, brochures, signs, and
                    all EK materials that are purchased by the
                    local EK Centers and Satsang Societies
                    actually belong to ECKANKAR. They buy
                    these items, with their own money, from
                    Eckankar and Eckankar ends up owning
                    it all including the "profits" from sales!

                    So, if we take $30K (the ave. total in SS
                    bank accounts) and multiply that by 100
                    Satsang Societies we have, maybe, around
                    $30 million dollars, more or less, hidden
                    away (for a rainy day?) in local Satsang
                    Societies.

                    Prometheus


                    Liska wrote:
                    Since Eckankar is one of the most
                    secretive organizations, it's really
                    hard to say how they are doing
                    financially.

                    We used to wonder why they
                    never sent us annual statements
                    like other religions. I heard they
                    moved to Minneapolis to avoid
                    revealing their finances because
                    of California laws.

                    All this secret money stuff should
                    be enough of a clue that there's
                    something wrong with this group.

                    As for clues to how Eckankar is
                    doing one can judge by the turn
                    out at local events. For one thing,
                    there are no youth except for a few
                    that were brought up in eckankar
                    families.

                    When people try to hold events
                    such as intro talks hardly anybody
                    shows up. One H.I. from California
                    told a story on soul forum about
                    renting a hall for over 200 people
                    for an intro talk. His group advertised
                    in the papers, on the radio, and put
                    up posters all over the place. When
                    the day of the talk arrived, 3 people
                    showed up.

                    H.I.'s on soul forum complained that
                    when they couldn't get enough new
                    people to come to their events, the
                    main office said there was something
                    wrong with the way they were presenting
                    the message.

                    They even had a long drawn out
                    discussion on soul forum trying to
                    figure out why young people aren't
                    interested in Eckankar.

                    The low turnout at events, no youth,
                    increased charges for audio and
                    video broadcasts of Klemp, and
                    the heavy handed advertising for
                    the World Wide are all indicators
                    that finances aren't what they used
                    to be.

                    Regards
                    Liska

                    prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Mish and All,
                    > Eckankar sales has probably dropped
                    > to about $2.5 million in annual
                    > membership and seminar donations
                    > worldwide. There is probably $500K
                    > per year in total projected material
                    > sales, but IMO this has fallen short
                    > to less than $300K. Of course, there
                    > are also those misc. gifted donations
                    > too that add to the treasury.
                    >
                    > I doubt that payroll and operating
                    > expenses (insurance, etc.) and equipment
                    > costs, etc. would be more than $1.5
                    > million in a normal year. And, since
                    > the EK church is tax exempt this helps
                    > to keep the overall operating costs
                    > low. Of course, this doesn't take into
                    > consideration the Klemps' salaries
                    > (retirement and other perks) or Peter's!
                    >
                    > And, let's face it... Seminars are Not
                    > money makers and this is why Regionals
                    > are being cancelled. These seminars
                    > deplete funds and don't bring in enough
                    > new members or sell enough materials
                    > to justify their existence. Before, each
                    > state or foreign country was to have
                    > one or two regional seminars per year!
                    >
                    > There is a real cash flow problem in
                    > Eckankar and this is why Klemp and
                    > Company are coming up with new ideas
                    > on how to bring in new money. The new
                    > photo with Klemp's goofy gaze and the
                    > increased costs on Internet Seminar
                    > talks are just the beginning.
                    >
                    > I suggested years ago that there be
                    > Condos built with shops (EK businesses)
                    > on the Temple grounds. Really, how much
                    > would that cost? Wouldn't that be a great
                    > money making tax exempt investment
                    > that would benefit everyone? Why is Klemp
                    > so fearful and/or stingy and has No vision
                    > for a real EK community? I guess Klemp
                    > wouldn't want to live near his chelas...
                    > after all HK's No Rebazar... but who is!
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                  • drubezarne
                    Hi Prometheus At one time I served on the Satsang Society board. Our finances were about $13,000. It was the only time I was able learn about the amount of
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 2, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Prometheus
                      At one time I served on the Satsang Society board. Our finances were
                      about $13,000. It was the only time I was able learn about the amount
                      of money in the society account and this was because we had to vote on
                      how to spend it. Later on, after I stopped going to the meetings (I
                      only went to one), it was back to secrecy. Once the new RESA took
                      over, she said the finances were a mess, but would't reveal how much
                      money there was in the account.

                      Secrecy in Eckankar is one of its major components. They justify
                      secrecy by invoking "The Law of Silence". This made up law is
                      sacrosanct in Eckankar and it's used in all kinds of ways from
                      covering up the lies and behavior of every Eck Master (Paul, Darwin,
                      and Harold) to the non-disclosure of finances.

                      Regards
                      Liska

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Liska and All,
                      > It's really hard to know how much
                      > EK money Klemp has squirreled
                      > away. I made some guesses at the
                      > amounts of monies that are NOW
                      > being brought in and spent, but
                      > how much has been accumulated
                      > over time?
                      >
                      > The main EK Org has money in
                      > banks, in stocks, bonds, and
                      > property, but the Satsang
                      > Societies (SS) have money in banks
                      > and invested too! With around
                      > 100 Satsang Societies it is hard
                      > to know how much, of the ESC's
                      > money, that Satsang Societies
                      > still have in their possession.
                      >
                      > At one time the local Satsang Societies
                      > were accumulating money in "Building
                      > Funds." I'm wondering if this has changed.
                      > And, since local EK Regional Seminars
                      > are declining the money used for these
                      > is Not being spent.
                      >
                      > Also, more money might be accumulating,
                      > locally, since money is usually Not spent
                      > on keeping local ECK Centers open. Local
                      > EK Centers are to be self-sufficient. Thus,
                      > the low number of local EK Centers. Klemp
                      > doesn't really want (his) money spent in
                      > this fashion. That's, also, why Klemp has
                      > separate funds like a Missionary Fund and
                      > a Building Fund! Why spend all of his (LEM)
                      > money on these things when chelas spend
                      > more of their money!
                      >
                      > Also, even when there were more Regional
                      > Seminars many RESAs of these Satsang
                      > Societies were encouraged (by Peter & Klemp)
                      > to sent in a yearly amount (like a donation)
                      > to the ESC from their Satsang's funds.
                      > These were considered to be "excess funds."
                      >
                      > Even Bob Lawton's Connecticut Satsang
                      > Society gives a yearly amount to the ESC.
                      > And they have a "Temple" to fund! The ESC
                      > even printed a picture once, in the Mystic
                      > World, of Bob and some chelas handing over
                      > a check for $2000 or so! How proud they
                      > were!
                      >
                      > If every (100) Satsang Society gave $1000
                      > per year that would be an extra $1 million
                      > coming in (to Klemp). Many local ECKists
                      > aren't even informed by their RESAs that
                      > their "extra" money is being sent to the ESC!
                      >
                      > Many ECKists, still, don't realize that ALL
                      > SATSANG SOCIETY MONEY belongs to
                      > ECKANKAR! It's Not their money or their
                      > TV's or their Tables, etc.... it ALL belongs
                      > to Eckankar!
                      >
                      > Here's a good one. Even the books, photos,
                      > CDs, tapes, jewelry, brochures, signs, and
                      > all EK materials that are purchased by the
                      > local EK Centers and Satsang Societies
                      > actually belong to ECKANKAR. They buy
                      > these items, with their own money, from
                      > Eckankar and Eckankar ends up owning
                      > it all including the "profits" from sales!
                      >
                      > So, if we take $30K (the ave. total in SS
                      > bank accounts) and multiply that by 100
                      > Satsang Societies we have, maybe, around
                      > $30 million dollars, more or less, hidden
                      > away (for a rainy day?) in local Satsang
                      > Societies.
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      >
                      > Liska wrote:
                      > Since Eckankar is one of the most
                      > secretive organizations, it's really
                      > hard to say how they are doing
                      > financially.
                      >
                      > We used to wonder why they
                      > never sent us annual statements
                      > like other religions. I heard they
                      > moved to Minneapolis to avoid
                      > revealing their finances because
                      > of California laws.
                      >
                      > All this secret money stuff should
                      > be enough of a clue that there's
                      > something wrong with this group.
                      >
                      > As for clues to how Eckankar is
                      > doing one can judge by the turn
                      > out at local events. For one thing,
                      > there are no youth except for a few
                      > that were brought up in eckankar
                      > families.
                      >
                      > When people try to hold events
                      > such as intro talks hardly anybody
                      > shows up. One H.I. from California
                      > told a story on soul forum about
                      > renting a hall for over 200 people
                      > for an intro talk. His group advertised
                      > in the papers, on the radio, and put
                      > up posters all over the place. When
                      > the day of the talk arrived, 3 people
                      > showed up.
                      >
                      > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that
                      > when they couldn't get enough new
                      > people to come to their events, the
                      > main office said there was something
                      > wrong with the way they were presenting
                      > the message.
                      >
                      > They even had a long drawn out
                      > discussion on soul forum trying to
                      > figure out why young people aren't
                      > interested in Eckankar.
                      >
                      > The low turnout at events, no youth,
                      > increased charges for audio and
                      > video broadcasts of Klemp, and
                      > the heavy handed advertising for
                      > the World Wide are all indicators
                      > that finances aren't what they used
                      > to be.
                      >
                      > Regards
                      > Liska
                      >
                      > prometheus wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello Mish and All,
                      > > Eckankar sales has probably dropped
                      > > to about $2.5 million in annual
                      > > membership and seminar donations
                      > > worldwide. There is probably $500K
                      > > per year in total projected material
                      > > sales, but IMO this has fallen short
                      > > to less than $300K. Of course, there
                      > > are also those misc. gifted donations
                      > > too that add to the treasury.
                      > >
                      > > I doubt that payroll and operating
                      > > expenses (insurance, etc.) and equipment
                      > > costs, etc. would be more than $1.5
                      > > million in a normal year. And, since
                      > > the EK church is tax exempt this helps
                      > > to keep the overall operating costs
                      > > low. Of course, this doesn't take into
                      > > consideration the Klemps' salaries
                      > > (retirement and other perks) or Peter's!
                      > >
                      > > And, let's face it... Seminars are Not
                      > > money makers and this is why Regionals
                      > > are being cancelled. These seminars
                      > > deplete funds and don't bring in enough
                      > > new members or sell enough materials
                      > > to justify their existence. Before, each
                      > > state or foreign country was to have
                      > > one or two regional seminars per year!
                      > >
                      > > There is a real cash flow problem in
                      > > Eckankar and this is why Klemp and
                      > > Company are coming up with new ideas
                      > > on how to bring in new money. The new
                      > > photo with Klemp's goofy gaze and the
                      > > increased costs on Internet Seminar
                      > > talks are just the beginning.
                      > >
                      > > I suggested years ago that there be
                      > > Condos built with shops (EK businesses)
                      > > on the Temple grounds. Really, how much
                      > > would that cost? Wouldn't that be a great
                      > > money making tax exempt investment
                      > > that would benefit everyone? Why is Klemp
                      > > so fearful and/or stingy and has No vision
                      > > for a real EK community? I guess Klemp
                      > > wouldn't want to live near his chelas...
                      > > after all HK's No Rebazar... but who is!
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      >
                    • prometheus_973
                      Hello Liska and All, I too served, as an Officer/Trustee, on our local Board, for many years, and under two RESAs. Our treasury had Well Over $50,000 because
                      Message 10 of 17 , Oct 2, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hello Liska and All,
                        I too served, as an Officer/Trustee,
                        on our local Board, for many years,
                        and under two RESAs.

                        Our treasury had Well Over $50,000
                        because most everything was pretty
                        much pay-as-you-go. If it wasn't
                        going to be profitable, in some way,
                        then it wasn't done OR the expenses
                        were paid for with extra, private,
                        donations. There were a lot of those...
                        by almost everyone who was "active"
                        and we had a lot of volunteers and clerics!

                        We, also, had all sorts of Board approved
                        Satsang Projects and other methods
                        of generating money.

                        However, we too were always instructed
                        to keep silent about finances and to
                        avoid questions regarding money.

                        Prometheus

                        Liska wrote:
                        Hi Prometheus
                        At one time I served on the Satsang
                        Society board. Our finances were
                        about $13,000. It was the only time
                        I was able learn about the amount
                        of money in the society account and
                        this was because we had to vote on
                        how to spend it. Later on, after I
                        stopped going to the meetings
                        (I only went to one), it was back
                        to secrecy. Once the new RESA took
                        over, she said the finances were
                        a mess, but would't reveal how much
                        money there was in the account.

                        Secrecy in Eckankar is one of its
                        major components. They justify
                        secrecy by invoking "The Law of
                        Silence". This made up law is
                        sacrosanct in Eckankar and it's
                        used in all kinds of ways from
                        covering up the lies and behavior
                        of every Eck Master (Paul, Darwin,
                        and Harold) to the non-disclosure
                        of finances.

                        Regards
                        Liska

                        prometheus wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Liska and All,
                        > It's really hard to know how much
                        > EK money Klemp has squirreled
                        > away. I made some guesses at the
                        > amounts of monies that are NOW
                        > being brought in and spent, but
                        > how much has been accumulated
                        > over time?
                        >
                        > The main EK Org has money in
                        > banks, in stocks, bonds, and
                        > property, but the Satsang
                        > Societies (SS) have money in banks
                        > and invested too! With around
                        > 100 Satsang Societies it is hard
                        > to know how much, of the ESC's
                        > money, that Satsang Societies
                        > still have in their possession.
                        >
                        > At one time the local Satsang Societies
                        > were accumulating money in "Building
                        > Funds." I'm wondering if this has changed.
                        > And, since local EK Regional Seminars
                        > are declining the money used for these
                        > is Not being spent.
                        >
                        > Also, more money might be accumulating,
                        > locally, since money is usually Not spent
                        > on keeping local ECK Centers open. Local
                        > EK Centers are to be self-sufficient. Thus,
                        > the low number of local EK Centers. Klemp
                        > doesn't really want (his) money spent in
                        > this fashion. That's, also, why Klemp has
                        > separate funds like a Missionary Fund and
                        > a Building Fund! Why spend all of his (LEM)
                        > money on these things when chelas spend
                        > more of their money!
                        >
                        > Also, even when there were more Regional
                        > Seminars many RESAs of these Satsang
                        > Societies were encouraged (by Peter & Klemp)
                        > to sent in a yearly amount (like a donation)
                        > to the ESC from their Satsang's funds.
                        > These were considered to be "excess funds."
                        >
                        > Even Bob Lawton's Connecticut Satsang
                        > Society gives a yearly amount to the ESC.
                        > And they have a "Temple" to fund! The ESC
                        > even printed a picture once, in the Mystic
                        > World, of Bob and some chelas handing over
                        > a check for $2000 or so! How proud they
                        > were!
                        >
                        > If every (100) Satsang Society gave $1000
                        > per year that would be an extra $1 million
                        > coming in (to Klemp). Many local ECKists
                        > aren't even informed by their RESAs that
                        > their "extra" money is being sent to the ESC!
                        >
                        > Many ECKists, still, don't realize that ALL
                        > SATSANG SOCIETY MONEY belongs to
                        > ECKANKAR! It's Not their money or their
                        > TV's or their Tables, etc.... it ALL belongs
                        > to Eckankar!
                        >
                        > Here's a good one. Even the books, photos,
                        > CDs, tapes, jewelry, brochures, signs, and
                        > all EK materials that are purchased by the
                        > local EK Centers and Satsang Societies
                        > actually belong to ECKANKAR. They buy
                        > these items, with their own money, from
                        > Eckankar and Eckankar ends up owning
                        > it all including the "profits" from sales!
                        >
                        > So, if we take $30K (the ave. total in SS
                        > bank accounts) and multiply that by 100
                        > Satsang Societies we have, maybe, around
                        > $30 million dollars, more or less, hidden
                        > away (for a rainy day?) in local Satsang
                        > Societies.
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        >
                        > Liska wrote:
                        > Since Eckankar is one of the most
                        > secretive organizations, it's really
                        > hard to say how they are doing
                        > financially.
                        >
                        > We used to wonder why they
                        > never sent us annual statements
                        > like other religions. I heard they
                        > moved to Minneapolis to avoid
                        > revealing their finances because
                        > of California laws.
                        >
                        > All this secret money stuff should
                        > be enough of a clue that there's
                        > something wrong with this group.
                        >
                        > As for clues to how Eckankar is
                        > doing one can judge by the turn
                        > out at local events. For one thing,
                        > there are no youth except for a few
                        > that were brought up in eckankar
                        > families.
                        >
                        > When people try to hold events
                        > such as intro talks hardly anybody
                        > shows up. One H.I. from California
                        > told a story on soul forum about
                        > renting a hall for over 200 people
                        > for an intro talk. His group advertised
                        > in the papers, on the radio, and put
                        > up posters all over the place. When
                        > the day of the talk arrived, 3 people
                        > showed up.
                        >
                        > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that
                        > when they couldn't get enough new
                        > people to come to their events, the
                        > main office said there was something
                        > wrong with the way they were presenting
                        > the message.
                        >
                        > They even had a long drawn out
                        > discussion on soul forum trying to
                        > figure out why young people aren't
                        > interested in Eckankar.
                        >
                        > The low turnout at events, no youth,
                        > increased charges for audio and
                        > video broadcasts of Klemp, and
                        > the heavy handed advertising for
                        > the World Wide are all indicators
                        > that finances aren't what they used
                        > to be.
                        >
                        > Regards
                        > Liska
                        >
                        > prometheus wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello Mish and All,
                        > > Eckankar sales has probably dropped
                        > > to about $2.5 million in annual
                        > > membership and seminar donations
                        > > worldwide. There is probably $500K
                        > > per year in total projected material
                        > > sales, but IMO this has fallen short
                        > > to less than $300K. Of course, there
                        > > are also those misc. gifted donations
                        > > too that add to the treasury.
                        > >
                        > > I doubt that payroll and operating
                        > > expenses (insurance, etc.) and equipment
                        > > costs, etc. would be more than $1.5
                        > > million in a normal year. And, since
                        > > the EK church is tax exempt this helps
                        > > to keep the overall operating costs
                        > > low. Of course, this doesn't take into
                        > > consideration the Klemps' salaries
                        > > (retirement and other perks) or Peter's!
                        > >
                        > > And, let's face it... Seminars are Not
                        > > money makers and this is why Regionals
                        > > are being cancelled. These seminars
                        > > deplete funds and don't bring in enough
                        > > new members or sell enough materials
                        > > to justify their existence. Before, each
                        > > state or foreign country was to have
                        > > one or two regional seminars per year!
                        > >
                        > > There is a real cash flow problem in
                        > > Eckankar and this is why Klemp and
                        > > Company are coming up with new ideas
                        > > on how to bring in new money. The new
                        > > photo with Klemp's goofy gaze and the
                        > > increased costs on Internet Seminar
                        > > talks are just the beginning.
                        > >
                        > > I suggested years ago that there be
                        > > Condos built with shops (EK businesses)
                        > > on the Temple grounds. Really, how much
                        > > would that cost? Wouldn't that be a great
                        > > money making tax exempt investment
                        > > that would benefit everyone? Why is Klemp
                        > > so fearful and/or stingy and has No vision
                        > > for a real EK community? I guess Klemp
                        > > wouldn't want to live near his chelas...
                        > > after all HK's No Rebazar... but who is!
                        > >
                        > > Prometheus
                      • Elizabeth
                        ... local events. For one thing, there are no youth except for a few that were brought up in eckankar families. ****I was brought up in the teachings. I never
                        Message 11 of 17 , Oct 2, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Liska wrote:
                           
                          >As for clues to how Eckankar is doing one can judge by the turn out at
                          local events. For one thing, there are no youth except for a few that
                          were brought up in eckankar families.
                           
                          ****I was brought up in the teachings. I never met other eckist youth in school. I felt embarrassed to even share the teachings with my friends....  Why would any youth feel comfortable doing that, the other kids would think we were strange.  And to be honest, when I did share the religion our family belonged to with friends, they told me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing.  Kids now a days are not that much different from when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)  Most youth that attend seminars, local events etc,   do so because their parents have hauled them to the events and they enjoy hanging out with kids their own age. When I was attending the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual" entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call it brainwashing? 
                           
                          ****My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar conversation last night.  She is agnostic and I tend to lean that way now after leaving the path.  We believe something created "all this" but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions, as I did in school, including mythology, and other cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths, dogma...  And for me to state it was always difficult for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission coming from me..... So why did I stay for some many years?  LOL   
                           
                          Liska wrote:
                          >When people try to hold events such as intro talks hardly anybody
                          shows up. One H.I. from California told a story on soul forum about
                          renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro talk. His group
                          advertised in the papers, on the radio, and put up posters all over
                          the place. When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.
                           
                          ****Yep, and guess who had to pay for these halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people if not enough would show up?  ESC surely didn't! 
                           
                          Liska wrote:
                          >H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when they couldn't get enough new
                          People to come to their events, the main office said there was
                          Something wrong with the way they were presenting the message.
                           
                          ****How can that be, if the HI's were following the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is eckankar that people are not interested in, no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....    
                           
                          Liska wrote:
                          >They even had a long drawn out discussion on soul forum trying to
                          figure out why young people aren't interested in Eckankar.
                           
                          ****Part of it might be because the parents are more interested in their own spiritual growth, and trying to break the family karmic bond.... At least that was how it was in my family!  
                           
                          Liska wrote:
                          The low turnout at events, no youth, increased charges for audio and
                          video broadcasts of Klemp, and the heavy handed advertising for the
                          World Wide are all indicators that finances aren't what they used to be.
                           
                          ****Yep.... And the membership isn't what it used to be either!  But you won't be able to convince some of those eckist that won't take off their rose colored glasses, or should I say blue?  ;-)
                           
                          No Love in Eck,
                          Liz 
                           
                           
                        • prometheus_973
                          Hi Liz and Liska, Say Liska, what s this soul forum? Is it like the official/unofficial EK sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat? Who are the ones standing upon
                          Message 12 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Liz and Liska,
                            Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"
                            Is it like the official/unofficial EK
                            sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?
                            Who are the ones standing upon the
                            pedestals over there? Are they narrow
                            minded, narcissistic, delusional, and
                            beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat
                            and Chela Chat?

                            In the below comments you mentioned
                            about ECKists renting a 200 person hall
                            in CA. and that only three newcomers
                            showed up. It doesn't sound like the local
                            EK chelas dragged in enough friends and
                            family members! LOL!

                            Of course, after several years of these EK
                            events how many friends and relatives are
                            left that are willing to go to these ECKie
                            events and waste their time and money.
                            These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...
                            invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive
                            over/down/up to California during the
                            week of the EK event and then sucker
                            them into attending "with you." Timing is
                            everything!

                            Years ago I read and heard of where
                            one Satsang group in Miami was getting
                            some very high turnouts at EK events.
                            Of course, some of the numbers of "new
                            people" were really repeats and numbers
                            were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but
                            the total number for a one year period
                            was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What
                            was even more incredible was that ONLY
                            3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK
                            Members from this incredibly large turnout
                            and effort!

                            Then again, I'm certain that the local EK
                            Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that
                            they could present these high numbers
                            to the ESC. And, it could be that this is
                            the real reason (finally after all these years)
                            that there is now less effort being made
                            to have Regional EK Seminars and other
                            unrewarding expenditures of local EK
                            (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon
                            the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars
                            and mailings. It seems to take awhile for
                            things to trickle down to the troops in
                            the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"
                            communication of a "higher" consciousness
                            (Klemp)! What a joke!

                            Still, there is a suggested need for the
                            Lower Plane "outer" work in order to
                            receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.
                            Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really
                            just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied
                            and distracted from thinking and asking
                            questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense
                            of purpose, and to make them feel needed
                            by feeling good about themselves. It's also
                            a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar
                            has become more like a self-help group.
                            It helps to teach chelas public speaking
                            skills and, thus, self confidence (like
                            Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries
                            saving people (Souls), but they also become
                            more pious and deluded.

                            Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an
                            attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well
                            as, a drug that one needs to use and lean
                            upon... forever!

                            Prometheus

                            Liska wrote:

                            As for clues to how Eckankar is
                            doing one can judge by the turn
                            out at local events. For one thing,
                            there are no youth except for a few
                            that were brought up in eckankar
                            families.

                            LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.
                            I never met other eckist youth in school.
                            I felt embarrassed to even share the
                            teachings with my friends.... Why would
                            any youth feel comfortable doing that,
                            the other kids would think we were strange.
                            And to be honest, when I did share the religion
                            our family belonged to with friends, they told
                            me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids
                            now a days are not that much different from
                            when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)
                            Most youth that attend seminars, local events
                            etc, do so because their parents have hauled
                            them to the events and they enjoy hanging out
                            with kids their own age. When I was attending
                            the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby
                            sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted
                            to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"
                            entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call
                            it brainwashing?

                            LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar
                            conversation last night. She is agnostic and
                            I tend to lean that way now after leaving the
                            path. We believe something created "all this"
                            but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like
                            Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,
                            as I did in school, including mythology, and other
                            cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,
                            dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult
                            for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because
                            of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission
                            coming from me..... So why did I stay for some
                            many years? LOL



                            Liska wrote:
                            When people try to hold events such as intro
                            talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from
                            California told a story on soul forum about
                            renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro
                            talk. His group advertised in the papers, on
                            the radio, and put up posters all over the place.
                            When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.

                            LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these
                            halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people
                            if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!

                            Liska wrote:
                            H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when
                            they couldn't get enough new People to come
                            to their events, the main office said there was
                            Something wrong with the way they were presenting
                            the message.

                            LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following
                            the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's
                            pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is
                            eckankar that people are not interested in,
                            no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....



                            Liska wrote:
                            >They even had a long drawn out discussion
                            on soul forum trying to figure out why young
                            people aren't interested in Eckankar.

                            LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents
                            are more interested in their own spiritual growth,
                            and trying to break the family karmic bond....
                            At least that was how it was in my family!

                            Liska wrote:
                            The low turnout at events, no youth,
                            increased charges for audio and
                            video broadcasts of Klemp, and the
                            heavy handed advertising for the
                            World Wide are all indicators that
                            finances aren't what they used to be.

                            LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't
                            what it used to be either! But you won't
                            be able to convince some of those eckist
                            that won't take off their rose colored glasses,
                            or should I say blue? ;-)

                            No Love in Eck,
                            Liz
                          • drubezarne
                            Prometheus For those who haven t heard about soul forum, it s run by Doug Marman, Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with Doug to
                            Message 13 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
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                              Prometheus

                              For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug Marman,
                              Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with
                              Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a
                              conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off
                              unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum. Many
                              feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which only
                              allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.

                              Regards
                              Liska


                              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                              <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Liz and Liska,
                              > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"
                              > Is it like the official/unofficial EK
                              > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?
                              > Who are the ones standing upon the
                              > pedestals over there? Are they narrow
                              > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and
                              > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat
                              > and Chela Chat?
                              >
                              > In the below comments you mentioned
                              > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall
                              > in CA. and that only three newcomers
                              > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local
                              > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and
                              > family members! LOL!
                              >
                              > Of course, after several years of these EK
                              > events how many friends and relatives are
                              > left that are willing to go to these ECKie
                              > events and waste their time and money.
                              > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...
                              > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive
                              > over/down/up to California during the
                              > week of the EK event and then sucker
                              > them into attending "with you." Timing is
                              > everything!
                              >
                              > Years ago I read and heard of where
                              > one Satsang group in Miami was getting
                              > some very high turnouts at EK events.
                              > Of course, some of the numbers of "new
                              > people" were really repeats and numbers
                              > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but
                              > the total number for a one year period
                              > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What
                              > was even more incredible was that ONLY
                              > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK
                              > Members from this incredibly large turnout
                              > and effort!
                              >
                              > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK
                              > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that
                              > they could present these high numbers
                              > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is
                              > the real reason (finally after all these years)
                              > that there is now less effort being made
                              > to have Regional EK Seminars and other
                              > unrewarding expenditures of local EK
                              > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon
                              > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars
                              > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for
                              > things to trickle down to the troops in
                              > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"
                              > communication of a "higher" consciousness
                              > (Klemp)! What a joke!
                              >
                              > Still, there is a suggested need for the
                              > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to
                              > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.
                              > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really
                              > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied
                              > and distracted from thinking and asking
                              > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense
                              > of purpose, and to make them feel needed
                              > by feeling good about themselves. It's also
                              > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar
                              > has become more like a self-help group.
                              > It helps to teach chelas public speaking
                              > skills and, thus, self confidence (like
                              > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries
                              > saving people (Souls), but they also become
                              > more pious and deluded.
                              >
                              > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an
                              > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well
                              > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean
                              > upon... forever!
                              >
                              > Prometheus
                              >
                              > Liska wrote:
                              >
                              > As for clues to how Eckankar is
                              > doing one can judge by the turn
                              > out at local events. For one thing,
                              > there are no youth except for a few
                              > that were brought up in eckankar
                              > families.
                              >
                              > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.
                              > I never met other eckist youth in school.
                              > I felt embarrassed to even share the
                              > teachings with my friends.... Why would
                              > any youth feel comfortable doing that,
                              > the other kids would think we were strange.
                              > And to be honest, when I did share the religion
                              > our family belonged to with friends, they told
                              > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids
                              > now a days are not that much different from
                              > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)
                              > Most youth that attend seminars, local events
                              > etc, do so because their parents have hauled
                              > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out
                              > with kids their own age. When I was attending
                              > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby
                              > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted
                              > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"
                              > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call
                              > it brainwashing?
                              >
                              > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar
                              > conversation last night. She is agnostic and
                              > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the
                              > path. We believe something created "all this"
                              > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like
                              > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,
                              > as I did in school, including mythology, and other
                              > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,
                              > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult
                              > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because
                              > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission
                              > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some
                              > many years? LOL
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Liska wrote:
                              > When people try to hold events such as intro
                              > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from
                              > California told a story on soul forum about
                              > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro
                              > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on
                              > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.
                              > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.
                              >
                              > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these
                              > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people
                              > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!
                              >
                              > Liska wrote:
                              > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when
                              > they couldn't get enough new People to come
                              > to their events, the main office said there was
                              > Something wrong with the way they were presenting
                              > the message.
                              >
                              > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following
                              > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's
                              > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is
                              > eckankar that people are not interested in,
                              > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Liska wrote:
                              > >They even had a long drawn out discussion
                              > on soul forum trying to figure out why young
                              > people aren't interested in Eckankar.
                              >
                              > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents
                              > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,
                              > and trying to break the family karmic bond....
                              > At least that was how it was in my family!
                              >
                              > Liska wrote:
                              > The low turnout at events, no youth,
                              > increased charges for audio and
                              > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the
                              > heavy handed advertising for the
                              > World Wide are all indicators that
                              > finances aren't what they used to be.
                              >
                              > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't
                              > what it used to be either! But you won't
                              > be able to convince some of those eckist
                              > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,
                              > or should I say blue? ;-)
                              >
                              > No Love in Eck,
                              > Liz
                              >
                            • etznab@aol.com
                              Is that the same as http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/ or another site altogether? Etznab ... From: drubezarne To:
                              Message 14 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Is that the same as

                                http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/

                                or another site altogether?

                                Etznab

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 4:57 pm
                                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot
                                the Messenger!



                                Prometheus



                                For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug Marman,

                                Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with

                                Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a

                                conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off

                                unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum. Many

                                feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which only

                                allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.



                                Regards

                                Liska



                                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"

                                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                                >

                                > Hi Liz and Liska,

                                > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"

                                > Is it like the official/unofficial EK

                                > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?

                                > Who are the ones standing upon the

                                > pedestals over there? Are they narrow

                                > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and

                                > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat

                                > and Chela Chat?

                                >

                                > In the below comments you mentioned

                                > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall

                                > in CA. and that only three newcomers

                                > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local

                                > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and

                                > family members! LOL!

                                >

                                > Of course, after several years of these EK

                                > events how many friends and relatives are

                                > left that are willing to go to these ECKie

                                > events and waste their time and money.

                                > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...

                                > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive

                                > over/down/up to California during the

                                > week of the EK event and then sucker

                                > them into attending "with you." Timing is

                                > everything!

                                >

                                > Years ago I read and heard of where

                                > one Satsang group in Miami was getting

                                > some very high turnouts at EK events.

                                > Of course, some of the numbers of "new

                                > people" were really repeats and numbers

                                > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but

                                > the total number for a one year period

                                > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What

                                > was even more incredible was that ONLY

                                > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK

                                > Members from this incredibly large turnout

                                > and effort!

                                >

                                > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK

                                > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that

                                > they could present these high numbers

                                > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is

                                > the real reason (finally after all these years)

                                > that there is now less effort being made

                                > to have Regional EK Seminars and other

                                > unrewarding expenditures of local EK

                                > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon

                                > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars

                                > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for

                                > things to trickle down to the troops in

                                > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"

                                > communication of a "higher" consciousness

                                > (Klemp)! What a joke!

                                >

                                > Still, there is a suggested need for the

                                > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to

                                > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.

                                > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really

                                > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied

                                > and distracted from thinking and asking

                                > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense

                                > of purpose, and to make them feel needed

                                > by feeling good about themselves. It's also

                                > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar

                                > has become more like a self-help group.

                                > It helps to teach chelas public speaking

                                > skills and, thus, self confidence (like

                                > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries

                                > saving people (Souls), but they also become

                                > more pious and deluded.

                                >

                                > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an

                                > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well

                                > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean

                                > upon... forever!

                                >

                                > Prometheus

                                >

                                > Liska wrote:

                                >

                                > As for clues to how Eckankar is

                                > doing one can judge by the turn

                                > out at local events. For one thing,

                                > there are no youth except for a few

                                > that were brought up in eckankar

                                > families.

                                >

                                > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.

                                > I never met other eckist youth in school.

                                > I felt embarrassed to even share the

                                > teachings with my friends.... Why would

                                > any youth feel comfortable doing that,

                                > the other kids would think we were strange.

                                > And to be honest, when I did share the religion

                                > our family belonged to with friends, they told

                                > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids

                                > now a days are not that much different from

                                > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)

                                > Most youth that attend seminars, local events

                                > etc, do so because their parents have hauled

                                > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out

                                > with kids their own age. When I was attending

                                > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby

                                > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted

                                > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"

                                > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call

                                > it brainwashing?

                                >

                                > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar

                                > conversation last night. She is agnostic and

                                > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the

                                > path. We believe something created "all this"

                                > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like

                                > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,

                                > as I did in school, including mythology, and other

                                > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,

                                > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult

                                > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because

                                > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission

                                > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some

                                > many years? LOL

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > Liska wrote:

                                > When people try to hold events such as intro

                                > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from

                                > California told a story on soul forum about

                                > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro

                                > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on

                                > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.

                                > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.

                                >

                                > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these

                                > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people

                                > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!

                                >

                                > Liska wrote:

                                > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when

                                > they couldn't get enough new People to come

                                > to their events, the main office said there was

                                > Something wrong with the way they were presenting

                                > the message.

                                >

                                > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following

                                > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's

                                > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is

                                > eckankar that people are not interested in,

                                > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > Liska wrote:

                                > >They even had a long drawn out discussion

                                > on soul forum trying to figure out why young

                                > people aren't interested in Eckankar.

                                >

                                > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents

                                > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,

                                > and trying to break the family karmic bond....

                                > At least that was how it was in my family!

                                >

                                > Liska wrote:

                                > The low turnout at events, no youth,

                                > increased charges for audio and

                                > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the

                                > heavy handed advertising for the

                                > World Wide are all indicators that

                                > finances aren't what they used to be.

                                >

                                > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't

                                > what it used to be either! But you won't

                                > be able to convince some of those eckist

                                > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,

                                > or should I say blue? ;-)

                                >

                                > No Love in Eck,

                                > Liz

                                >
                              • drubezarne
                                No, it s a Yahoo group that s only accessible to H.I.s they invite. I don t know what they re up to with this new forum group. Maybe they will let you join and
                                Message 15 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  No, it's a Yahoo group that's only accessible to H.I.s they invite. I
                                  don't know what they're up to with this new forum group. Maybe they
                                  will let you join and you can tell us about it. The Yahoo group has
                                  been in existence for about 10 years. They claim to have over 90
                                  H.I.s. I think that they're also counting people like me that have
                                  left soul forum. H.I.s are susceptible to ego stroking like having
                                  titles, duties, and sacred duties (ha ha). You can see why they would
                                  find a secret forum with an elitist flavor delightful.

                                  Regards
                                  Liska

                                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Is that the same as
                                  >
                                  > http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/
                                  >
                                  > or another site altogether?
                                  >
                                  > Etznab
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                                  > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 4:57 pm
                                  > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot
                                  > the Messenger!
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Prometheus
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug Marman,
                                  >
                                  > Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with
                                  >
                                  > Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a
                                  >
                                  > conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off
                                  >
                                  > unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum. Many
                                  >
                                  > feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which only
                                  >
                                  > allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Regards
                                  >
                                  > Liska
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                  >
                                  > prometheus_973@ wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Hi Liz and Liska,
                                  >
                                  > > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"
                                  >
                                  > > Is it like the official/unofficial EK
                                  >
                                  > > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?
                                  >
                                  > > Who are the ones standing upon the
                                  >
                                  > > pedestals over there? Are they narrow
                                  >
                                  > > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and
                                  >
                                  > > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat
                                  >
                                  > > and Chela Chat?
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > In the below comments you mentioned
                                  >
                                  > > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall
                                  >
                                  > > in CA. and that only three newcomers
                                  >
                                  > > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local
                                  >
                                  > > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and
                                  >
                                  > > family members! LOL!
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Of course, after several years of these EK
                                  >
                                  > > events how many friends and relatives are
                                  >
                                  > > left that are willing to go to these ECKie
                                  >
                                  > > events and waste their time and money.
                                  >
                                  > > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...
                                  >
                                  > > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive
                                  >
                                  > > over/down/up to California during the
                                  >
                                  > > week of the EK event and then sucker
                                  >
                                  > > them into attending "with you." Timing is
                                  >
                                  > > everything!
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Years ago I read and heard of where
                                  >
                                  > > one Satsang group in Miami was getting
                                  >
                                  > > some very high turnouts at EK events.
                                  >
                                  > > Of course, some of the numbers of "new
                                  >
                                  > > people" were really repeats and numbers
                                  >
                                  > > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but
                                  >
                                  > > the total number for a one year period
                                  >
                                  > > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What
                                  >
                                  > > was even more incredible was that ONLY
                                  >
                                  > > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK
                                  >
                                  > > Members from this incredibly large turnout
                                  >
                                  > > and effort!
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK
                                  >
                                  > > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that
                                  >
                                  > > they could present these high numbers
                                  >
                                  > > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is
                                  >
                                  > > the real reason (finally after all these years)
                                  >
                                  > > that there is now less effort being made
                                  >
                                  > > to have Regional EK Seminars and other
                                  >
                                  > > unrewarding expenditures of local EK
                                  >
                                  > > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon
                                  >
                                  > > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars
                                  >
                                  > > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for
                                  >
                                  > > things to trickle down to the troops in
                                  >
                                  > > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"
                                  >
                                  > > communication of a "higher" consciousness
                                  >
                                  > > (Klemp)! What a joke!
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Still, there is a suggested need for the
                                  >
                                  > > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to
                                  >
                                  > > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.
                                  >
                                  > > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really
                                  >
                                  > > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied
                                  >
                                  > > and distracted from thinking and asking
                                  >
                                  > > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense
                                  >
                                  > > of purpose, and to make them feel needed
                                  >
                                  > > by feeling good about themselves. It's also
                                  >
                                  > > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar
                                  >
                                  > > has become more like a self-help group.
                                  >
                                  > > It helps to teach chelas public speaking
                                  >
                                  > > skills and, thus, self confidence (like
                                  >
                                  > > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries
                                  >
                                  > > saving people (Souls), but they also become
                                  >
                                  > > more pious and deluded.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an
                                  >
                                  > > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well
                                  >
                                  > > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean
                                  >
                                  > > upon... forever!
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Prometheus
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Liska wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > As for clues to how Eckankar is
                                  >
                                  > > doing one can judge by the turn
                                  >
                                  > > out at local events. For one thing,
                                  >
                                  > > there are no youth except for a few
                                  >
                                  > > that were brought up in eckankar
                                  >
                                  > > families.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.
                                  >
                                  > > I never met other eckist youth in school.
                                  >
                                  > > I felt embarrassed to even share the
                                  >
                                  > > teachings with my friends.... Why would
                                  >
                                  > > any youth feel comfortable doing that,
                                  >
                                  > > the other kids would think we were strange.
                                  >
                                  > > And to be honest, when I did share the religion
                                  >
                                  > > our family belonged to with friends, they told
                                  >
                                  > > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids
                                  >
                                  > > now a days are not that much different from
                                  >
                                  > > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)
                                  >
                                  > > Most youth that attend seminars, local events
                                  >
                                  > > etc, do so because their parents have hauled
                                  >
                                  > > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out
                                  >
                                  > > with kids their own age. When I was attending
                                  >
                                  > > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby
                                  >
                                  > > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted
                                  >
                                  > > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"
                                  >
                                  > > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call
                                  >
                                  > > it brainwashing?
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar
                                  >
                                  > > conversation last night. She is agnostic and
                                  >
                                  > > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the
                                  >
                                  > > path. We believe something created "all this"
                                  >
                                  > > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like
                                  >
                                  > > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,
                                  >
                                  > > as I did in school, including mythology, and other
                                  >
                                  > > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,
                                  >
                                  > > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult
                                  >
                                  > > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because
                                  >
                                  > > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission
                                  >
                                  > > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some
                                  >
                                  > > many years? LOL
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Liska wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > When people try to hold events such as intro
                                  >
                                  > > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from
                                  >
                                  > > California told a story on soul forum about
                                  >
                                  > > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro
                                  >
                                  > > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on
                                  >
                                  > > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.
                                  >
                                  > > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these
                                  >
                                  > > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people
                                  >
                                  > > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Liska wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when
                                  >
                                  > > they couldn't get enough new People to come
                                  >
                                  > > to their events, the main office said there was
                                  >
                                  > > Something wrong with the way they were presenting
                                  >
                                  > > the message.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following
                                  >
                                  > > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's
                                  >
                                  > > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is
                                  >
                                  > > eckankar that people are not interested in,
                                  >
                                  > > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Liska wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > >They even had a long drawn out discussion
                                  >
                                  > > on soul forum trying to figure out why young
                                  >
                                  > > people aren't interested in Eckankar.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents
                                  >
                                  > > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,
                                  >
                                  > > and trying to break the family karmic bond....
                                  >
                                  > > At least that was how it was in my family!
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Liska wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > The low turnout at events, no youth,
                                  >
                                  > > increased charges for audio and
                                  >
                                  > > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the
                                  >
                                  > > heavy handed advertising for the
                                  >
                                  > > World Wide are all indicators that
                                  >
                                  > > finances aren't what they used to be.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't
                                  >
                                  > > what it used to be either! But you won't
                                  >
                                  > > be able to convince some of those eckist
                                  >
                                  > > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,
                                  >
                                  > > or should I say blue? ;-)
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > No Love in Eck,
                                  >
                                  > > Liz
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • etznab@aol.com
                                  Liska, Thanks for sharing about that. I had no idea it existed. No, I don t think they would let me join. I m not a H.I. Etznab ... From: drubezarne
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Oct 4, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Liska,

                                    Thanks for sharing about that. I had no
                                    idea it existed.

                                    No, I don't think they would let me join.
                                    I'm not a H.I.

                                    Etznab

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                                    To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 5:53 pm
                                    Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot
                                    the Messenger!



                                    No, it's a Yahoo group that's only accessible to H.I.s they invite. I

                                    don't know what they're up to with this new forum group. Maybe they

                                    will let you join and you can tell us about it. The Yahoo group has

                                    been in existence for about 10 years. They claim to have over 90

                                    H.I.s. I think that they're also counting people like me that have

                                    left soul forum. H.I.s are susceptible to ego stroking like having

                                    titles, duties, and sacred duties (ha ha). You can see why they would

                                    find a secret forum with an elitist flavor delightful.



                                    Regards

                                    Liska



                                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:

                                    >

                                    > Is that the same as

                                    >

                                    > http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/forum/

                                    >

                                    > or another site altogether?

                                    >

                                    > Etznab

                                    >

                                    > -----Original Message-----

                                    > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>

                                    > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com

                                    > Sent: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 4:57 pm

                                    > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't
                                    Shoot

                                    > the Messenger!

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > Prometheus

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > For those who haven't heard about soul forum, it's run by Doug
                                    Marman,

                                    >

                                    > Phil Wellman and Melodie Chrislock. Both Phil and Melodie work with

                                    >

                                    > Doug to sell his books and share in the profits. They're like a

                                    >

                                    > conglomorate who use soul forum as a way to make some money off

                                    >

                                    > unsuspecting H.I.'s. The H.I.'s are invited to join soul forum.
                                    Many

                                    >

                                    > feel like they're privileged to be part of this elite group which
                                    only

                                    >

                                    > allows H.I.'s into the sacred inner sanctum of Doug's domain.

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > Regards

                                    >

                                    > Liska

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"

                                    >

                                    > prometheus_973@ wrote:

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Hi Liz and Liska,

                                    >

                                    > > Say Liska, what's this "soul forum?"

                                    >

                                    > > Is it like the official/unofficial EK

                                    >

                                    > > sites of Chela-Chat and HU-Chat?

                                    >

                                    > > Who are the ones standing upon the

                                    >

                                    > > pedestals over there? Are they narrow

                                    >

                                    > > minded, narcissistic, delusional, and

                                    >

                                    > > beyond reproach as they are on HU Chat

                                    >

                                    > > and Chela Chat?

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > In the below comments you mentioned

                                    >

                                    > > about ECKists renting a 200 person hall

                                    >

                                    > > in CA. and that only three newcomers

                                    >

                                    > > showed up. It doesn't sound like the local

                                    >

                                    > > EK chelas dragged in enough friends and

                                    >

                                    > > family members! LOL!

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Of course, after several years of these EK

                                    >

                                    > > events how many friends and relatives are

                                    >

                                    > > left that are willing to go to these ECKie

                                    >

                                    > > events and waste their time and money.

                                    >

                                    > > These ECKists need to use more ingenuity...

                                    >

                                    > > invite out-of-town guests to fly or drive

                                    >

                                    > > over/down/up to California during the

                                    >

                                    > > week of the EK event and then sucker

                                    >

                                    > > them into attending "with you." Timing is

                                    >

                                    > > everything!

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Years ago I read and heard of where

                                    >

                                    > > one Satsang group in Miami was getting

                                    >

                                    > > some very high turnouts at EK events.

                                    >

                                    > > Of course, some of the numbers of "new

                                    >

                                    > > people" were really repeats and numbers

                                    >

                                    > > were "fudged" in other ways slightly, but

                                    >

                                    > > the total number for a one year period

                                    >

                                    > > was just over 1,000 "newcomers!" What

                                    >

                                    > > was even more incredible was that ONLY

                                    >

                                    > > 3 of the 1,000 people signed up as EK

                                    >

                                    > > Members from this incredibly large turnout

                                    >

                                    > > and effort!

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Then again, I'm certain that the local EK

                                    >

                                    > > Vahanas and RESA felt very proud that

                                    >

                                    > > they could present these high numbers

                                    >

                                    > > to the ESC. And, it could be that this is

                                    >

                                    > > the real reason (finally after all these years)

                                    >

                                    > > that there is now less effort being made

                                    >

                                    > > to have Regional EK Seminars and other

                                    >

                                    > > unrewarding expenditures of local EK

                                    >

                                    > > (ESC) funds. Thus, the recent focus upon

                                    >

                                    > > the Internet and the Internet EK Seminars

                                    >

                                    > > and mailings. It seems to take awhile for

                                    >

                                    > > things to trickle down to the troops in

                                    >

                                    > > the field... yet ECKists believe in an "inner"

                                    >

                                    > > communication of a "higher" consciousness

                                    >

                                    > > (Klemp)! What a joke!

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Still, there is a suggested need for the

                                    >

                                    > > Lower Plane "outer" work in order to

                                    >

                                    > > receive those Higher Plane "inner" blessings.

                                    >

                                    > > Almost all of the ECK Vahana work is really

                                    >

                                    > > just "Busy Work." It's to keep chelas preoccupied

                                    >

                                    > > and distracted from thinking and asking

                                    >

                                    > > questions. And, it's to give chelas a sense

                                    >

                                    > > of purpose, and to make them feel needed

                                    >

                                    > > by feeling good about themselves. It's also

                                    >

                                    > > a valuable brainwashing technique! EKankar

                                    >

                                    > > has become more like a self-help group.

                                    >

                                    > > It helps to teach chelas public speaking

                                    >

                                    > > skills and, thus, self confidence (like

                                    >

                                    > > Toastmasters). Chelas become missionaries

                                    >

                                    > > saving people (Souls), but they also become

                                    >

                                    > > more pious and deluded.

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Therefore, EKankar becomes a crutch, an

                                    >

                                    > > attitude of delusion and aloofness, as well

                                    >

                                    > > as, a drug that one needs to use and lean

                                    >

                                    > > upon... forever!

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Prometheus

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Liska wrote:

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > As for clues to how Eckankar is

                                    >

                                    > > doing one can judge by the turn

                                    >

                                    > > out at local events. For one thing,

                                    >

                                    > > there are no youth except for a few

                                    >

                                    > > that were brought up in eckankar

                                    >

                                    > > families.

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > LIZ: I was brought up in the teachings.

                                    >

                                    > > I never met other eckist youth in school.

                                    >

                                    > > I felt embarrassed to even share the

                                    >

                                    > > teachings with my friends.... Why would

                                    >

                                    > > any youth feel comfortable doing that,

                                    >

                                    > > the other kids would think we were strange.

                                    >

                                    > > And to be honest, when I did share the religion

                                    >

                                    > > our family belonged to with friends, they told

                                    >

                                    > > me it was a cult. So I stopped sharing. Kids

                                    >

                                    > > now a days are not that much different from

                                    >

                                    > > when I was first in the teachings ('72-'73)

                                    >

                                    > > Most youth that attend seminars, local events

                                    >

                                    > > etc, do so because their parents have hauled

                                    >

                                    > > them to the events and they enjoy hanging out

                                    >

                                    > > with kids their own age. When I was attending

                                    >

                                    > > the kids rooms were nothing more than a baby

                                    >

                                    > > sitting service. Of course they eventually attempted

                                    >

                                    > > to offer the kids a more structured "spiritual"

                                    >

                                    > > entertainment in the rooms.... Or should I call

                                    >

                                    > > it brainwashing?

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > LIZ: My 17 yr old daughter and I have a similar

                                    >

                                    > > conversation last night. She is agnostic and

                                    >

                                    > > I tend to lean that way now after leaving the

                                    >

                                    > > path. We believe something created "all this"

                                    >

                                    > > but just not sure "It" is a god or wee man like

                                    >

                                    > > Klemp! My daughter has studied several religions,

                                    >

                                    > > as I did in school, including mythology, and other

                                    >

                                    > > cultures.They all have their deities, gods, myths,

                                    >

                                    > > dogma... And for me to state it was always difficult

                                    >

                                    > > for me to follow eckankar for 30 years because

                                    >

                                    > > of that underlying questioning, is a huge admission

                                    >

                                    > > coming from me..... So why did I stay for some

                                    >

                                    > > many years? LOL

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Liska wrote:

                                    >

                                    > > When people try to hold events such as intro

                                    >

                                    > > talks hardly anybody shows up. One H.I. from

                                    >

                                    > > California told a story on soul forum about

                                    >

                                    > > renting a hall for over 200 people for an intro

                                    >

                                    > > talk. His group advertised in the papers, on

                                    >

                                    > > the radio, and put up posters all over the place.

                                    >

                                    > > When the day of the talk arrived, 3 people showed up.

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > LIZ: Yep, and guess who had to pay for these

                                    >

                                    > > halls hey would rent for over 200 hundred people

                                    >

                                    > > if not enough would show up? ESC surely didn't!

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Liska wrote:

                                    >

                                    > > H.I.'s on soul forum complained that when

                                    >

                                    > > they couldn't get enough new People to come

                                    >

                                    > > to their events, the main office said there was

                                    >

                                    > > Something wrong with the way they were presenting

                                    >

                                    > > the message.

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > LIZ: How can that be, if the HI's were following

                                    >

                                    > > the guidelines for media pr and using ESC's

                                    >

                                    > > pre listed Titles etc? I would have to say it is

                                    >

                                    > > eckankar that people are not interested in,

                                    >

                                    > > no mater how it is packaged, topic titles etc....

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Liska wrote:

                                    >

                                    > > >They even had a long drawn out discussion

                                    >

                                    > > on soul forum trying to figure out why young

                                    >

                                    > > people aren't interested in Eckankar.

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > LIZ: Part of it might be because the parents

                                    >

                                    > > are more interested in their own spiritual growth,

                                    >

                                    > > and trying to break the family karmic bond....

                                    >

                                    > > At least that was how it was in my family!

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > Liska wrote:

                                    >

                                    > > The low turnout at events, no youth,

                                    >

                                    > > increased charges for audio and

                                    >

                                    > > video broadcasts of Klemp, and the

                                    >

                                    > > heavy handed advertising for the

                                    >

                                    > > World Wide are all indicators that

                                    >

                                    > > finances aren't what they used to be.

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > LIZ: Yep.... And the membership isn't

                                    >

                                    > > what it used to be either! But you won't

                                    >

                                    > > be able to convince some of those eckist

                                    >

                                    > > that won't take off their rose colored glasses,

                                    >

                                    > > or should I say blue? ;-)

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >

                                    > > No Love in Eck,

                                    >

                                    > > Liz

                                    >

                                    > >

                                    >
                                  • prometheus_973
                                    Hello Etznab and All, Just because you re not an H.I. doesn t mean you can t join. What do they require for membership... a quote from the most recent H.I.
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Oct 5, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hello Etznab and All,
                                      Just because you're not an H.I. doesn't
                                      mean you can't join. What do they require
                                      for membership... a quote from the most
                                      recent H.I. Letter?

                                      I guess they, also, may want your "real name"
                                      and location so they can ask around about
                                      you. Still, there are many H.I.s who aren't
                                      in the EK spotlight and don't want to be.
                                      They want their privacy.

                                      And, I'm not sure that the ESC would provide
                                      them membership info. Eckankar membership
                                      info and one's "rank" are supposed to remain
                                      private. Of course I could be wrong as to what
                                      membership info is being shared. Klemp has
                                      never really been specific on anything.

                                      After all, at one time, ECKists were supposed
                                      to keep their "spiritual stories" private as well,
                                      and we can see how Klemp has "changed" that
                                      policy too!

                                      Prometheus


                                      etznab@... wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Liska,
                                      >
                                      > Thanks for sharing about that. I had no
                                      > idea it existed.
                                      >
                                      > No, I don't think they would let me join.
                                      > I'm not a H.I.
                                      >
                                      > Etznab
                                      >
                                      Re: Hey Chela Chat: Don't Shoot the Messenger!

                                      No, it's a Yahoo group that's only accessible
                                      to H.I.s they invite. I don't know what they're
                                      up to with this new forum group. Maybe they
                                      will let you join and you can tell us about it.
                                      The Yahoo group has been in existence for
                                      about 10 years. They claim to have over 90
                                      H.I.s. I think that they're also counting people
                                      like me that have left soul forum. H.I.s are
                                      susceptible to ego stroking like having
                                      titles, duties, and sacred duties (ha ha).
                                      You can see why they would find a secret
                                      forum with an elitist flavor delightful.

                                      Regards
                                      >
                                      Liska
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