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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] The Use of Hypnotism in Eckankar

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Liska, Thanks for sharing that (and the link). Sometimes, even the programs I watch on TV before bed, these can influence my dreams and the symbology. Words
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 3, 2008
      Liska,

      Thanks for sharing that (and the link).

      Sometimes, even the programs I watch on TV
      before bed, these can influence my dreams and
      the symbology.

      Words and images can be suggestive, I admit.

      Etznab

      -----Original Message-----
      From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 8:20 am
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] The Use of Hypnotism in Eckankar



      Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing

      eckists they are chasing an illusion?



      It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly dreams

      are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the omniscience of

      Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in

      Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner

      experiences that prove they really exist!"



      Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you want to

      call them influence people by training them to become accustomed to

      their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as truth.



      After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's particular

      bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their

      controlled state of consciousness.



      In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of mystical Eck

      Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold



      Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their

      subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck

      Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.



      People don't realize these are just manifestations of their state of

      consciousness because they have allowed someone else to control their

      ideology.



      It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who trained under

      Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned all about

      hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.



      Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his work was

      in the area of autosuggestion.



      Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the formation of

      Scientology.



      http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm



      Regards

      Liska
    • mishmisha9
      This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 4, 2008
        This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
        exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that
        Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
        I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
        asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
        mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
        to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!

        Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
        spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )

        Mish

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne" <drubezarne@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
        > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
        >
        > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly dreams
        > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the omniscience of
        > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
        > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
        > experiences that prove they really exist!"
        >
        > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you want to
        > call them influence people by training them to become accustomed to
        > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as truth.
        >
        > After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's particular
        > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
        > controlled state of consciousness.
        >
        > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of mystical Eck
        > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
        > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
        > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
        > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
        >
        > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their state of
        > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to control their
        > ideology.
        >
        > It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who trained under
        > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned all about
        > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
        >
        > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his work was
        > in the area of autosuggestion.
        >
        > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the formation of
        > Scientology.
        >
        > http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm
        >
        > Regards
        > Liska
        >
      • drubezarne
        I realize that some might view meditation/contemplation as a form of self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation becomes
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 6, 2008
          I realize that some might view meditation/contemplation as a form of
          self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation
          becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to visualize the
          current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong use of a
          God given gift because it is being subverted for the aggrandizement of
          a corrupt leader.

          Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp during
          meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of that
          person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
          consciousness to accept something that is not true.

          Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention on God
          and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand experiences with
          God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read symbolically and
          never literally. There are a few quotes he has used from it that might
          be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and "salute no
          man as you pass along the highway".

          When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
          meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all kinds of
          troubles for himself and his worshippers.

          Regards
          Liska

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
          >
          > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
          > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that
          > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
          > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
          > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
          > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
          > to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!
          >
          > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
          > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )
          >
          > Mish
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
          <drubezarne@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
          > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
          > >
          > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly dreams
          > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the omniscience of
          > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
          > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
          > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
          > >
          > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you want to
          > > call them influence people by training them to become accustomed to
          > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as truth.
          > >
          > > After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's particular
          > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
          > > controlled state of consciousness.
          > >
          > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of mystical Eck
          > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
          > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
          > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
          > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
          > >
          > > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their state of
          > > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to control their
          > > ideology.
          > >
          > > It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who trained under
          > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned all about
          > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
          > >
          > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his work was
          > > in the area of autosuggestion.
          > >
          > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the formation of
          > > Scientology.
          > >
          > > http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm
          > >
          > > Regards
          > > Liska
          > >
          >
        • mishmisha9
          In Those Wonderful ECK Masters, Klemp repeatedly instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters. That is why it is so important for good eckists to
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 6, 2008
            "In Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp repeatedly
            instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters.
            That is why it is so important for good eckists to purchase
            those pics as well as those of HK. When chelas look to
            visualize such beings and then in fact conjure them up
            in meditation, then Klemp and his chelsas proclaim this
            as proof of the validity of the eck masters and the eckankar
            teachings. This is their only proof!!

            I do agree with your comments about meditation when done
            properly can be one way to connect with God. Thanks for
            clarifying that.

            Mish

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne" <drubezarne@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I realize that some might view meditation/contemplation as a form of
            > self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation
            > becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to visualize the
            > current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong use of a
            > God given gift because it is being subverted for the aggrandizement of
            > a corrupt leader.
            >
            > Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp during
            > meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of that
            > person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
            > consciousness to accept something that is not true.
            >
            > Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention on God
            > and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand experiences with
            > God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read symbolically and
            > never literally. There are a few quotes he has used from it that might
            > be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and "salute no
            > man as you pass along the highway".
            >
            > When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
            > meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all kinds of
            > troubles for himself and his worshippers.
            >
            > Regards
            > Liska
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
            > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
            > >
            > > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
            > > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that
            > > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
            > > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
            > > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
            > > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
            > > to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!
            > >
            > > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
            > > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )
            > >
            > > Mish
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
            > <drubezarne@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
            > > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
            > > >
            > > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly dreams
            > > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the omniscience of
            > > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
            > > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
            > > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
            > > >
            > > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you want to
            > > > call them influence people by training them to become accustomed to
            > > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as truth.
            > > >
            > > > After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's particular
            > > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
            > > > controlled state of consciousness.
            > > >
            > > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of mystical Eck
            > > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
            > > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
            > > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
            > > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
            > > >
            > > > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their state of
            > > > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to control their
            > > > ideology.
            > > >
            > > > It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who trained under
            > > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned all about
            > > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
            > > >
            > > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his work was
            > > > in the area of autosuggestion.
            > > >
            > > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the formation of
            > > > Scientology.
            > > >
            > > > http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm
            > > >
            > > > Regards
            > > > Liska
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • drubezarne
            Mish Yes, those pictures of Klemp that are always on display and that eckists are told are mandatory at every Eckankar event - no matter how minor just confirm
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 6, 2008
              Mish

              Yes, those pictures of Klemp that are always on display and that
              eckists are told are mandatory at every Eckankar event - no matter how
              minor just confirm Klemp's narcissism and need to be worshipped.
              People don't think of the deeper implications of displaying his
              pictures. They just think they have to do it because they were told to
              do so by the Eckankar guidelines (rules actually). Even if a group of
              eckists meet at someone's home there has to be a picture of Klemp in a
              visible location for all to see. Big brother's arm has a long reach.
              He reinforces this by his claim that he knows all that goes on in
              every person's heart.

              The pictures of the make-believe Eck Masters only fortify his position
              as High Muckety-Muck because he likes to remind his followers that he
              is the head of this fictitious clan. Klemp has even gone so far as to
              say due to the ever evolving nature of life, an Eck Master, today, is
              greater than any in the past. How's that for humility! Well, I guess
              he might be right because none existed before Paul Twitchell and
              Darwin Gross. When measured against those two how can he lose?

              I do have a question, Mish. You said, "I do agree with your comments
              about meditation when done properly can be one way to connect with
              God." Did you mean there are other ways such as knowing that God is
              with you always? If so, I would have to say yes because, what do I
              know, there could be people who have a natural talent for such without
              having to work at it by meditating.

              Regards
              Liska

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
              <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
              >
              > "In Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp repeatedly
              > instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters.
              > That is why it is so important for good eckists to purchase
              > those pics as well as those of HK. When chelas look to
              > visualize such beings and then in fact conjure them up
              > in meditation, then Klemp and his chelsas proclaim this
              > as proof of the validity of the eck masters and the eckankar
              > teachings. This is their only proof!!
              >
              > I do agree with your comments about meditation when done
              > properly can be one way to connect with God. Thanks for
              > clarifying that.
              >
              > Mish
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
              <drubezarne@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > I realize that some might view meditation/contemplation as a form of
              > > self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation
              > > becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to visualize the
              > > current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong use of a
              > > God given gift because it is being subverted for the aggrandizement of
              > > a corrupt leader.
              > >
              > > Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp during
              > > meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of that
              > > person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
              > > consciousness to accept something that is not true.
              > >
              > > Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention on God
              > > and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand experiences with
              > > God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read symbolically and
              > > never literally. There are a few quotes he has used from it that might
              > > be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and "salute no
              > > man as you pass along the highway".
              > >
              > > When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
              > > meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all kinds of
              > > troubles for himself and his worshippers.
              > >
              > > Regards
              > > Liska
              > >
              > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
              > > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
              > > > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that
              > > > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
              > > > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
              > > > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
              > > > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
              > > > to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!
              > > >
              > > > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
              > > > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )
              > > >
              > > > Mish
              > > >
              > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
              > > <drubezarne@>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
              > > > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
              > > > >
              > > > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly
              dreams
              > > > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the
              omniscience of
              > > > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
              > > > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
              > > > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
              > > > >
              > > > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you
              want to
              > > > > call them influence people by training them to become
              accustomed to
              > > > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as
              truth.
              > > > >
              > > > > After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's
              particular
              > > > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
              > > > > controlled state of consciousness.
              > > > >
              > > > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of
              mystical Eck
              > > > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
              > > > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
              > > > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
              > > > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
              > > > >
              > > > > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their
              state of
              > > > > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to
              control their
              > > > > ideology.
              > > > >
              > > > > It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who
              trained under
              > > > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned
              all about
              > > > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
              > > > >
              > > > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his
              work was
              > > > > in the area of autosuggestion.
              > > > >
              > > > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the
              formation of
              > > > > Scientology.
              > > > >
              > > > > http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm
              > > > >
              > > > > Regards
              > > > > Liska
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • mishmisha9
              Hello, Liska! In answer to your question: I do have a question, Mish. You said, I do agree with your comments about meditation when done properly can be one
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 6, 2008
                Hello, Liska!

                In answer to your question:
                "I do have a question, Mish. You said, 'I do agree with your comments
                about meditation when done properly can be one way to connect with
                God.' Did you mean there are other ways such as knowing that God is
                with you always? If so, I would have to say yes because, what do I
                know, there could be people who have a natural talent for such without
                having to work at it by meditating."

                Yes, of course! First of all, not everyone meditates, but I wouldn't say
                they are disconnected from God. Actually, I think we are always
                connected to God from our beginning to forever. This is why it is
                ridiculous to think one needs to have an intermediary to help one
                connect to God.

                What Klemp instructs in regard to goals of initiations and consciousness
                are just distractions and impediments. The real Truth lies in the Journey
                which is the true goal. Perhaps, living life is the only valid meditation.

                Mish





                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne" <drubezarne@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Mish
                >
                > Yes, those pictures of Klemp that are always on display and that
                > eckists are told are mandatory at every Eckankar event - no matter how
                > minor just confirm Klemp's narcissism and need to be worshipped.
                > People don't think of the deeper implications of displaying his
                > pictures. They just think they have to do it because they were told to
                > do so by the Eckankar guidelines (rules actually). Even if a group of
                > eckists meet at someone's home there has to be a picture of Klemp in a
                > visible location for all to see. Big brother's arm has a long reach.
                > He reinforces this by his claim that he knows all that goes on in
                > every person's heart.
                >
                > The pictures of the make-believe Eck Masters only fortify his position
                > as High Muckety-Muck because he likes to remind his followers that he
                > is the head of this fictitious clan. Klemp has even gone so far as to
                > say due to the ever evolving nature of life, an Eck Master, today, is
                > greater than any in the past. How's that for humility! Well, I guess
                > he might be right because none existed before Paul Twitchell and
                > Darwin Gross. When measured against those two how can he lose?
                >
                > I do have a question, Mish. You said, "I do agree with your comments
                > about meditation when done properly can be one way to connect with
                > God." Did you mean there are other ways such as knowing that God is
                > with you always? If so, I would have to say yes because, what do I
                > know, there could be people who have a natural talent for such without
                > having to work at it by meditating.
                >
                > Regards
                > Liska
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                > >
                > > "In Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp repeatedly
                > > instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters.
                > > That is why it is so important for good eckists to purchase
                > > those pics as well as those of HK. When chelas look to
                > > visualize such beings and then in fact conjure them up
                > > in meditation, then Klemp and his chelsas proclaim this
                > > as proof of the validity of the eck masters and the eckankar
                > > teachings. This is their only proof!!
                > >
                > > I do agree with your comments about meditation when done
                > > properly can be one way to connect with God. Thanks for
                > > clarifying that.
                > >
                > > Mish
                > >
                > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
                > <drubezarne@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I realize that some might view meditation/contemplation as a form of
                > > > self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation
                > > > becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to visualize the
                > > > current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong use of a
                > > > God given gift because it is being subverted for the aggrandizement of
                > > > a corrupt leader.
                > > >
                > > > Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp during
                > > > meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of that
                > > > person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
                > > > consciousness to accept something that is not true.
                > > >
                > > > Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention on God
                > > > and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand experiences with
                > > > God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read symbolically and
                > > > never literally. There are a few quotes he has used from it that might
                > > > be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and "salute no
                > > > man as you pass along the highway".
                > > >
                > > > When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
                > > > meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all kinds of
                > > > troubles for himself and his worshippers.
                > > >
                > > > Regards
                > > > Liska
                > > >
                > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                > > > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
                > > > > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that
                > > > > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
                > > > > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
                > > > > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
                > > > > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
                > > > > to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!
                > > > >
                > > > > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
                > > > > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )
                > > > >
                > > > > Mish
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
                > > > <drubezarne@>
                > > > > wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
                > > > > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
                > > > > >
                > > > > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly
                > dreams
                > > > > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the
                > omniscience of
                > > > > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
                > > > > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
                > > > > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you
                > want to
                > > > > > call them influence people by training them to become
                > accustomed to
                > > > > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as
                > truth.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's
                > particular
                > > > > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
                > > > > > controlled state of consciousness.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of
                > mystical Eck
                > > > > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
                > > > > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
                > > > > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
                > > > > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their
                > state of
                > > > > > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to
                > control their
                > > > > > ideology.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who
                > trained under
                > > > > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned
                > all about
                > > > > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his
                > work was
                > > > > > in the area of autosuggestion.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the
                > formation of
                > > > > > Scientology.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Regards
                > > > > > Liska
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Ingrid
                Hi Liska   I think we are always connected to the Life Source I don t call it God any more, I call it just Life. And it s full of miracles ... I don t
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008

                  Hi Liska

                   

                  I think we are always connected to the Life Source
                  I don't call it God any more, I call it just Life.
                  And it's full of miracles ... I don't meditate (or contemplate or whatever) any more (even if I agree that it's good to go still from time to time) and  I still get the gifts of life all the time ... this is so great ...
                  Ingrid

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:16:44 PM
                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Use of Hypnotism in Eckankar

                  Mish

                  Yes, those pictures of Klemp that are always on display and that
                  eckists are told are mandatory at every Eckankar event - no matter how
                  minor just confirm Klemp's narcissism and need to be worshipped.
                  People don't think of the deeper implications of displaying his
                  pictures. They just think they have to do it because they were told to
                  do so by the Eckankar guidelines (rules actually). Even if a group of
                  eckists meet at someone's home there has to be a picture of Klemp in a
                  visible location for all to see. Big brother's arm has a long reach.
                  He reinforces this by his claim that he knows all that goes on in
                  every person's heart.

                  The pictures of the make-believe Eck Masters only fortify his position
                  as High Muckety-Muck because he likes to remind his followers that he
                  is the head of this fictitious clan. Klemp has even gone so far as to
                  say due to the ever evolving nature of life, an Eck Master, today, is
                  greater than any in the past. How's that for humility! Well, I guess
                  he might be right because none existed before Paul Twitchell and
                  Darwin Gross. When measured against those two how can he lose?

                  I do have a question, Mish. You said, "I do agree with your comments
                  about meditation when done properly can be one way to connect with
                  God." Did you mean there are other ways such as knowing that God is
                  with you always? If so, I would have to say yes because, what do I
                  know, there could be people who have a natural talent for such without
                  having to work at it by meditating.

                  Regards
                  Liska

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9"
                  <mishmisha9@ ...> wrote:

                  >
                  > "In Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp
                  repeatedly
                  > instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters.
                  > That is why it is so important for good eckists to purchase
                  > those pics as well as those of HK. When chelas look to
                  > visualize such beings and then in fact conjure them up
                  > in meditation, then Klemp and his chelsas proclaim this
                  > as proof of the validity of the eck masters and the eckankar
                  > teachings. This is their only proof!!
                  >
                  > I do agree with your comments about meditation when done
                  > properly can be one way to connect with God. Thanks for
                  > clarifying that.
                  >
                  > Mish
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "drubezarne"
                  <drubezarne@ >
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I realize that some might
                  view meditation/contempl ation as a form of
                  > > self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation
                  > > becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to visualize the
                  > > current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong use of a
                  > > God given gift because it is being subverted for the aggrandizement of
                  > > a corrupt leader.
                  > >
                  > > Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp during
                  > > meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of that
                  > > person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
                  > > consciousness to accept something that is not true.
                  > >
                  > > Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention on God
                  > > and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand experiences with
                  > > God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read
                  symbolically and
                  > > never literally. There are a few quotes he has used from it that might
                  > > be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and "salute no
                  > > man as you pass along the highway".
                  > >
                  > > When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
                  > > meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all kinds of
                  > > troubles for himself and his worshippers.
                  > >
                  > > Regards
                  > > Liska
                  > >
                  > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9"
                  > > <mishmisha9@ > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
                  > > > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques
                  that
                  > > > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
                  > > > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
                  > > > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
                  > > > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
                  > > > to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!
                  > > >
                  > > > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
                  > > > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )
                  > > >
                  > > > Mish
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "drubezarne"
                  > > <drubezarne@ >
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
                  > > > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly
                  dreams
                  > > > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the
                  omniscience of
                  > > > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
                  > > > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
                  > > > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you
                  want to
                  > > > > call them influence people by training them to become
                  accustomed to
                  > > > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as
                  truth.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > After a person's judgement is
                  controlled by that group's
                  particular
                  > > > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
                  > > > > controlled state of consciousness.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of
                  mystical Eck
                  > > > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
                  > > > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
                  > > > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
                  > > > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their
                  state of
                  > > > > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to
                  control their
                  > > > > ideology.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It is a form of hypnotism started by
                  Paul Twitchell who
                  trained under
                  > > > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned
                  all about
                  > > > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his
                  work was
                  > > > > in the area of autosuggestion.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the
                  formation of
                  > > > > Scientology.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.lermanet .com/exit/ hubbard-the- hypnotist2. htm
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Regards
                  > > > > Liska
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >


                • drubezarne
                  I realize that once a person steps away from Eckankar, they want to rid themselves of all the brainwashing. I still get certain words that pop up when I think
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
                    I realize that once a person steps away from Eckankar, they want to
                    rid themselves of all the brainwashing. I still get certain words that
                    pop up when I think about God such as Sugmad and Mahanta. I know these
                    are conditioned words from the subconscious. And so, when these
                    unwanted words pop up, I have to edit my thoughts and substitute
                    non-eck terms for them in order to re-condition my subconsciousness.

                    When it comes to meditation, some might think that we should throw
                    that out too and I don't blame them for doing so, especially when
                    they've been duped by charlatans like Harold Klemp, Darwin Gross, and
                    Paul Twitchell.

                    My belief is that meditation when done correctly without visualizing
                    people who claim to be masters can have great benefits and eventually
                    lead to great spiritual insights. If I didn't meditate I would never
                    have found out about the fictitiousness and deceit of Eckankar.

                    I first learned the real truth in meditation and then decided to
                    investigate Eckankar through the Internet and by reading the books
                    plagiarized by Paul Twitchell. It was a combination of inner work and
                    using discrimination or common sense that untangled me from this false
                    path. My inner experiences through meditation gave me the confidence
                    or faith that I was taking the right steps toward independence from
                    all the brainwashing that I had undergone while a member of Eckankar.

                    Everybody has to walk their own path and as I mentioned before some
                    may not need meditation to have experiences with God or the I AM.
                    Unlike some people (Klemp comes to mind), I don't believe I have the
                    right to tell others how to contact God. Those who like to tell people
                    how to contact God too often have their own selfish schemes for
                    personal profit and aggrandizement.

                    Regards
                    Liska

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Ingrid
                    <ctecvie@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Liska
                    >  
                    > I think we are always connected to the Life Source
                    > I don't call it God any more, I call it just Life.
                    > And it's full of miracles ... I don't meditate (or contemplate or
                    whatever) any more (even if I agree that it's good to go still from
                    time to time) and  I still get the gifts of life all the time ... this
                    is so great ...
                    > Ingrid
                  • etznab@aol.com
                    Ingrid I thought that was beautifully said, Ingrid. Etznab ... From: Ingrid To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 8 Sep
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
                      Ingrid

                      I thought that was beautifully said, Ingrid.

                      Etznab

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Ingrid <ctecvie@...>
                      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 2:10 am
                      Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Use of Hypnotism in
                      Eckankar




                      Hi Liska

                       
                      I think we are always connected to the Life Source
                      I don't call it God any more, I call it just Life.
                      And it's full of miracles ... I don't meditate (or contemplate or
                      whatever) any more (even if I agree that it's good to go still from
                      time to time) and  I still get the gifts of life all the time ... this
                      is so great ...
                      Ingrid


                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:16:44 PM
                      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Use of Hypnotism in
                      Eckankar




                      Mish

                      Yes, those pictures of Klemp that are always on display and that
                      eckists are told are mandatory at every Eckankar event - no matter how
                      minor just confirm Klemp's narcissism and need to be worshipped.
                      People don't think of the deeper implications of displaying his
                      pictures. They just think they have to do it because they were told to
                      do so by the Eckankar guidelines (rules actually). Even if a group of
                      eckists meet at someone's home there has to be a picture of Klemp in a
                      visible location for all to see.
                      Big brother's arm has a long reach.
                      He reinforces this by his claim that he knows all that goes on in
                      every person's heart.

                      The pictures of the make-believe Eck Masters only fortify his position
                      as High Muckety-Muck because he likes to remind his followers that he
                      is the head of this fictitious clan. Klemp has even gone so far as to
                      say due to the ever evolving nature of life, an Eck Master,
                      today, is
                      greater than any in the past. How's that for humility! Well, I guess
                      he might be right because none existed before Paul Twitchell and
                      Darwin Gross. When measured against those two how can he lose?

                      I do have a question, Mish. You said, "I do agree with your comments
                      about meditation when done properly can be one way to connect with
                      God." Did you mean there are other ways such as knowing that God is
                      with you always? If so, I would have to say yes because, what do I
                      know, there could be people who have a natural talent for such without
                      having to work at it by meditating.

                      Regards
                      Liska

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9"
                      <mishmisha9@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      > "In Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp
                      repeatedly
                      > instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters.
                      > That is why it is so important for good eckists to purchase
                      > those pics as well as those of HK. When chelas look to
                      > visualize such beings and then in fact conjure them up
                      > in meditation, then K
                      lemp and his chelsas proclaim this
                      > as proof of the validity of the eck masters and the eckankar
                      > teachings. This is their only proof!!
                      >
                      > I do agree with your comments about meditation when done
                      > properly can be one way to connect with God. Thanks for
                      > clarifying that.
                      >
                      > Mish
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "drubezarne"
                      <drubezarne@ >
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I realize that some might
                      view meditation/contempl ation as a form of
                      > > self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises,
                      meditation
                      > > becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to
                      visualize the
                      > > current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong
                      use of a
                      > > God given gift because it is being subverted for the
                      aggrandizement of
                      > > a corrupt leader.
                      > >
                      > > Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp
                      during
                      > > meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of
                      that
                      > > person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
                      > > consciousness to accept something that is not true.
                      > >
                      > > Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention
                      on God
                      > > and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand
                      experiences with
                      > > God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read
                      symbolically and
                      > > never literally. There are a20few quotes he has used from it
                      that might
                      > > be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and
                      "salute no
                      > > man as you pass along the highway".
                      > >
                      > > When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
                      > > meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all
                      kinds of
                      > > troubles for himself and his worshippers.
                      > >
                      > > Regards
                      > > Liska
                      > >
                      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com,
                      "mishmisha9"
                      > > <mishmisha9@ > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
                      > > > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques
                      that
                      > > > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me,
                      when
                      > > > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually
                      fell
                      > > > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
                      > > > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real"
                      protection--
                      > > > to not become delusional and believe in the fake
                      mahanta!
                      > > >
                      > > > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
                      > > > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap!
                      : )
                      > > >
                      > > > Mish
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com,
                      "drubezarne"
                      > > <drubezarne@ >
                      > > > wrote:

                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
                      > > > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences
                      - mostly
                      dreams
                      > > > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and
                      the
                      omniscience of
                      > > > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the
                      effect, "I believe in
                      > > > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have
                      had inner
                      > > > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or
                      whatever you
                      want to
                      > > > > call them influence people by training them to
                      become
                      accustomed to
                      > > > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false
                      beliefs as
                      truth.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > After a person's judgement is
                      controlled by that group's
                      particular
                      > > > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things
                      according to their
                      > > > > controlled state of consciousness.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the
                      illusions of
                      mystical Eck
                      > > > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar
                      leader, Harold
                      > > > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of 0D
                      their
                      > > > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have
                      dreams of the Eck
                      > > > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > People don't realize these are just manifestations
                      of their
                      state of
                      > > > > consciousness because they have allowed someone
                      else to
                      control their
                      > > > > ideology.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It is a form of hypnotism started by
                      Paul Twitchell who
                      trained under
                      > > > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron
                      Hubbard learned
                      all about
                      > > > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how
                      influential his
                      work was
                      > > > > in the area of autosuggestion.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on
                      the
                      formation of
                      > > > > Scientology.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > http://www.lermanet .com/exit/ hubbard-the-
                      hypnotist2. htm
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Regards
                      > > > > Liska
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
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