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The Use of Hypnotism in Eckankar

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  • drubezarne
    Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing eckists they are chasing an illusion? It is their conviction that their inner experiences -
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 3, 2008
      Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
      eckists they are chasing an illusion?

      It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly dreams
      are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the omniscience of
      Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
      Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
      experiences that prove they really exist!"

      Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you want to
      call them influence people by training them to become accustomed to
      their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as truth.

      After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's particular
      bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
      controlled state of consciousness.

      In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of mystical Eck
      Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
      Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
      subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
      Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.

      People don't realize these are just manifestations of their state of
      consciousness because they have allowed someone else to control their
      ideology.

      It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who trained under
      Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned all about
      hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.

      Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his work was
      in the area of autosuggestion.

      Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the formation of
      Scientology.

      http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm

      Regards
      Liska
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Liska and All, Yes, Klemp uses the same old techniques as Twit did. HK contradicts himself constantly, but this is explained away as having a different
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 3, 2008
        Hello Liska and All,
        Yes, Klemp uses the same old techniques
        as Twit did. HK contradicts himself constantly,
        but this is explained away as having a different
        message for each person via ones consciousness.
        This (EK) explanation is useful in that it keeps
        HK's chelas confused and always guessing,
        or second guessing the Mahanta, by filling in
        the blanks. This Catch-22 method helps to
        keep EK Chelas more deluded and off balance
        and always in need of Klemp's (co-dependent)
        help.
        ***
        From Klemp's The Wisdom Notes FALL 1987:

        "Some people in ECK celebrate themselves,
        imagining they have the genius to go from
        the First to the Twelfth Initiation without delay.

        Yet they cannot last a week without cheating
        someone, telling gossip, starting needless
        argument, giving their word or breaking it,
        and bungling their lives in too many ways to
        mention.

        Naively, they suppose that the GOD
        CONSCIOUSNESS can change them into
        something they're Not, like a pumpkin
        turning into a carriage, Cinderella becoming
        a princess, or a frog being restored to a prince...

        The willful acts of self-important Chelas are a
        minor part of my concerns. My work is mainly
        in the Other Worlds, simply because there are
        so many SOULS in them..."

        ME: Klemp's Not interested in the SOULS living
        in Physical bodies!

        HK: "When people interpret their dreams, they
        should be kind to themselves. The dream should
        be seen with them in this HERO position."
        ***

        Here's something on FRIDAY FASTS from HK's
        The Wisdom Notes SPRING 1992:

        "The path of ECK is the middle path...
        [Not the Highest Path!]

        Thus, it may also be that a new spiritual
        path BORROWS practices from OLD RELIGIONS,
        UPDATES them, and thus they become an
        integral part of the New Religion...

        In ECKANKAR, and in every other Path to
        GOD, there is the same regard for what
        uplifts people spiritually in OLDER PATHS...

        It will startle some people in ECKANKAR
        to think that our FAST DAY is fashioned
        after the once-familiar day in the CATHOLIC
        CHURCH."

        ME: Of course, Klemp fashioned many EK
        ceremonies, too, like the EWS (ECK Worship
        Service) after the OLD Lower Plane (KAL) Religions.
        ***
        BTW- Here's something interesting from
        Klemp's The Wisdom Notes SPRING 1984:

        "... the MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master.
        The world is never without him, for the line
        of ECK Adepts ORIGINATED BEFORE the first
        ARYAN PEOPLE were placed here by colonists
        from JUPITER."

        ME: WOW! JUPITER!

        Now, if one would look at the definition
        for "ARYAN" in Klemp's EK LexiCON it would
        say that this is the 5th and current ROOT RACE!

        So, people in this Current ROOT RACE, according
        to Klemp "were placed here by colonists from
        JUPITER! Is this mentioned in any ECK Brochure?

        Also, there couldn't have been a Mahanta in
        all Yugas, either, according to other HK dogma.
        The Mahanta, supposedly, first came along at
        the start of this Kali Yuga!

        And, how old is GAKKO, (ASOKI is 60,000 years
        old), or MALATI "the first ECK Master of record
        among the Polarians" and when did they show
        up? Was it before or after the JUPITER transfer?
        Now this really sounds like SCIENTOLOGY!

        And, how long did the first three yugas last?
        See! It's all crap! Besides, Twitchell created the
        "Mahanta" around Jan. 1, 1969. Paul Twitchell
        first mentioned the "Mahanta" IN PRINT in the
        Monthly Jan. 1, 1969 The Wisdom Notes.
        Doug Marman has confirmed this!

        Verify the First Time PT mentioned the
        "MAHANTA" for yourself! Look in: PAUL
        TWITCHELL PRESENTS, THE WISDOM NOTES,
        January 1968--October 1971.

        Therefore, just like Twit, Klemp is tripped
        up by his own past lies and has to give
        explanations involving "paradoxes" and
        "levels of consciousness," etc. in order
        to confuse his loyal, but brain-washed
        followers... just as the other 2nd & 4th
        Plane Religious Leaders do and have always
        done!

        Prometheus


        "drubezarne" wrote:
        >
        > Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest
        obstacle to convincing eckists they are chasing
        an illusion?
        >
        > It is their conviction that their inner experiences
        - mostly dreams are the proof of the existence of
        Eck Masters and the omniscience of Harold Klemp.
        They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
        Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have
        had inner experiences that prove they really exist!"
        >
        > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults,
        or whatever you want to call them influence people
        by training them to become accustomed to their
        doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs
        as truth.
        >
        > After a person's judgement is controlled by
        that group's particular bias, he/she start to see
        and believe things according to their controlled
        state of consciousness.
        >
        > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the
        illusions of mystical Eck Masters and the unlimited
        power of their Eckankar leader, Harold Klemp.
        This belief system goes to the very heart of their
        subconsciousness and as a result they will have
        dreams of the Eck Masters, Harold Klemp, and
        Wisdom Temples.
        >
        > People don't realize these are just manifestations
        of their state of consciousness because they have
        allowed someone else to control their ideology.
        >
        > It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul
        Twitchell who trained under Ron Hubbard,
        the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned
        all about hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
        >
        > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how
        influential his work was in the area of autosuggestion.
        >
        > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence
        on the formation of Scientology.

        http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm

        Regards
        Liska
      • etznab@aol.com
        Liska, Thanks for sharing that (and the link). Sometimes, even the programs I watch on TV before bed, these can influence my dreams and the symbology. Words
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 3, 2008
          Liska,

          Thanks for sharing that (and the link).

          Sometimes, even the programs I watch on TV
          before bed, these can influence my dreams and
          the symbology.

          Words and images can be suggestive, I admit.

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 8:20 am
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] The Use of Hypnotism in Eckankar



          Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing

          eckists they are chasing an illusion?



          It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly dreams

          are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the omniscience of

          Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in

          Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner

          experiences that prove they really exist!"



          Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you want to

          call them influence people by training them to become accustomed to

          their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as truth.



          After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's particular

          bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their

          controlled state of consciousness.



          In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of mystical Eck

          Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold



          Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their

          subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck

          Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.



          People don't realize these are just manifestations of their state of

          consciousness because they have allowed someone else to control their

          ideology.



          It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who trained under

          Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned all about

          hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.



          Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his work was

          in the area of autosuggestion.



          Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the formation of

          Scientology.



          http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm



          Regards

          Liska
        • mishmisha9
          This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 4, 2008
            This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
            exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that
            Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
            I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
            asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
            mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
            to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!

            Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
            spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )

            Mish

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne" <drubezarne@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
            > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
            >
            > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly dreams
            > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the omniscience of
            > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
            > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
            > experiences that prove they really exist!"
            >
            > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you want to
            > call them influence people by training them to become accustomed to
            > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as truth.
            >
            > After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's particular
            > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
            > controlled state of consciousness.
            >
            > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of mystical Eck
            > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
            > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
            > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
            > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
            >
            > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their state of
            > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to control their
            > ideology.
            >
            > It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who trained under
            > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned all about
            > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
            >
            > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his work was
            > in the area of autosuggestion.
            >
            > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the formation of
            > Scientology.
            >
            > http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm
            >
            > Regards
            > Liska
            >
          • drubezarne
            I realize that some might view meditation/contemplation as a form of self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation becomes
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 6, 2008
              I realize that some might view meditation/contemplation as a form of
              self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation
              becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to visualize the
              current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong use of a
              God given gift because it is being subverted for the aggrandizement of
              a corrupt leader.

              Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp during
              meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of that
              person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
              consciousness to accept something that is not true.

              Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention on God
              and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand experiences with
              God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read symbolically and
              never literally. There are a few quotes he has used from it that might
              be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and "salute no
              man as you pass along the highway".

              When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
              meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all kinds of
              troubles for himself and his worshippers.

              Regards
              Liska

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
              <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
              >
              > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
              > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that
              > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
              > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
              > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
              > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
              > to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!
              >
              > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
              > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )
              >
              > Mish
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
              <drubezarne@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
              > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
              > >
              > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly dreams
              > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the omniscience of
              > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
              > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
              > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
              > >
              > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you want to
              > > call them influence people by training them to become accustomed to
              > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as truth.
              > >
              > > After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's particular
              > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
              > > controlled state of consciousness.
              > >
              > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of mystical Eck
              > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
              > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
              > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
              > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
              > >
              > > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their state of
              > > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to control their
              > > ideology.
              > >
              > > It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who trained under
              > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned all about
              > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
              > >
              > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his work was
              > > in the area of autosuggestion.
              > >
              > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the formation of
              > > Scientology.
              > >
              > > http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm
              > >
              > > Regards
              > > Liska
              > >
              >
            • mishmisha9
              In Those Wonderful ECK Masters, Klemp repeatedly instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters. That is why it is so important for good eckists to
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 6, 2008
                "In Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp repeatedly
                instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters.
                That is why it is so important for good eckists to purchase
                those pics as well as those of HK. When chelas look to
                visualize such beings and then in fact conjure them up
                in meditation, then Klemp and his chelsas proclaim this
                as proof of the validity of the eck masters and the eckankar
                teachings. This is their only proof!!

                I do agree with your comments about meditation when done
                properly can be one way to connect with God. Thanks for
                clarifying that.

                Mish

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne" <drubezarne@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I realize that some might view meditation/contemplation as a form of
                > self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation
                > becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to visualize the
                > current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong use of a
                > God given gift because it is being subverted for the aggrandizement of
                > a corrupt leader.
                >
                > Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp during
                > meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of that
                > person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
                > consciousness to accept something that is not true.
                >
                > Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention on God
                > and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand experiences with
                > God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read symbolically and
                > never literally. There are a few quotes he has used from it that might
                > be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and "salute no
                > man as you pass along the highway".
                >
                > When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
                > meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all kinds of
                > troubles for himself and his worshippers.
                >
                > Regards
                > Liska
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                > >
                > > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
                > > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that
                > > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
                > > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
                > > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
                > > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
                > > to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!
                > >
                > > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
                > > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )
                > >
                > > Mish
                > >
                > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
                > <drubezarne@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
                > > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
                > > >
                > > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly dreams
                > > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the omniscience of
                > > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
                > > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
                > > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
                > > >
                > > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you want to
                > > > call them influence people by training them to become accustomed to
                > > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as truth.
                > > >
                > > > After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's particular
                > > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
                > > > controlled state of consciousness.
                > > >
                > > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of mystical Eck
                > > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
                > > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
                > > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
                > > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
                > > >
                > > > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their state of
                > > > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to control their
                > > > ideology.
                > > >
                > > > It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who trained under
                > > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned all about
                > > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
                > > >
                > > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his work was
                > > > in the area of autosuggestion.
                > > >
                > > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the formation of
                > > > Scientology.
                > > >
                > > > http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm
                > > >
                > > > Regards
                > > > Liska
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • drubezarne
                Mish Yes, those pictures of Klemp that are always on display and that eckists are told are mandatory at every Eckankar event - no matter how minor just confirm
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 6, 2008
                  Mish

                  Yes, those pictures of Klemp that are always on display and that
                  eckists are told are mandatory at every Eckankar event - no matter how
                  minor just confirm Klemp's narcissism and need to be worshipped.
                  People don't think of the deeper implications of displaying his
                  pictures. They just think they have to do it because they were told to
                  do so by the Eckankar guidelines (rules actually). Even if a group of
                  eckists meet at someone's home there has to be a picture of Klemp in a
                  visible location for all to see. Big brother's arm has a long reach.
                  He reinforces this by his claim that he knows all that goes on in
                  every person's heart.

                  The pictures of the make-believe Eck Masters only fortify his position
                  as High Muckety-Muck because he likes to remind his followers that he
                  is the head of this fictitious clan. Klemp has even gone so far as to
                  say due to the ever evolving nature of life, an Eck Master, today, is
                  greater than any in the past. How's that for humility! Well, I guess
                  he might be right because none existed before Paul Twitchell and
                  Darwin Gross. When measured against those two how can he lose?

                  I do have a question, Mish. You said, "I do agree with your comments
                  about meditation when done properly can be one way to connect with
                  God." Did you mean there are other ways such as knowing that God is
                  with you always? If so, I would have to say yes because, what do I
                  know, there could be people who have a natural talent for such without
                  having to work at it by meditating.

                  Regards
                  Liska

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                  <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > "In Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp repeatedly
                  > instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters.
                  > That is why it is so important for good eckists to purchase
                  > those pics as well as those of HK. When chelas look to
                  > visualize such beings and then in fact conjure them up
                  > in meditation, then Klemp and his chelsas proclaim this
                  > as proof of the validity of the eck masters and the eckankar
                  > teachings. This is their only proof!!
                  >
                  > I do agree with your comments about meditation when done
                  > properly can be one way to connect with God. Thanks for
                  > clarifying that.
                  >
                  > Mish
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
                  <drubezarne@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I realize that some might view meditation/contemplation as a form of
                  > > self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation
                  > > becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to visualize the
                  > > current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong use of a
                  > > God given gift because it is being subverted for the aggrandizement of
                  > > a corrupt leader.
                  > >
                  > > Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp during
                  > > meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of that
                  > > person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
                  > > consciousness to accept something that is not true.
                  > >
                  > > Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention on God
                  > > and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand experiences with
                  > > God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read symbolically and
                  > > never literally. There are a few quotes he has used from it that might
                  > > be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and "salute no
                  > > man as you pass along the highway".
                  > >
                  > > When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
                  > > meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all kinds of
                  > > troubles for himself and his worshippers.
                  > >
                  > > Regards
                  > > Liska
                  > >
                  > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                  > > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
                  > > > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that
                  > > > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
                  > > > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
                  > > > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
                  > > > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
                  > > > to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!
                  > > >
                  > > > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
                  > > > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )
                  > > >
                  > > > Mish
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
                  > > <drubezarne@>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
                  > > > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly
                  dreams
                  > > > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the
                  omniscience of
                  > > > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
                  > > > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
                  > > > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you
                  want to
                  > > > > call them influence people by training them to become
                  accustomed to
                  > > > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as
                  truth.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's
                  particular
                  > > > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
                  > > > > controlled state of consciousness.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of
                  mystical Eck
                  > > > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
                  > > > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
                  > > > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
                  > > > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their
                  state of
                  > > > > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to
                  control their
                  > > > > ideology.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who
                  trained under
                  > > > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned
                  all about
                  > > > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his
                  work was
                  > > > > in the area of autosuggestion.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the
                  formation of
                  > > > > Scientology.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Regards
                  > > > > Liska
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • mishmisha9
                  Hello, Liska! In answer to your question: I do have a question, Mish. You said, I do agree with your comments about meditation when done properly can be one
                  Message 8 of 11 , Sep 6, 2008
                    Hello, Liska!

                    In answer to your question:
                    "I do have a question, Mish. You said, 'I do agree with your comments
                    about meditation when done properly can be one way to connect with
                    God.' Did you mean there are other ways such as knowing that God is
                    with you always? If so, I would have to say yes because, what do I
                    know, there could be people who have a natural talent for such without
                    having to work at it by meditating."

                    Yes, of course! First of all, not everyone meditates, but I wouldn't say
                    they are disconnected from God. Actually, I think we are always
                    connected to God from our beginning to forever. This is why it is
                    ridiculous to think one needs to have an intermediary to help one
                    connect to God.

                    What Klemp instructs in regard to goals of initiations and consciousness
                    are just distractions and impediments. The real Truth lies in the Journey
                    which is the true goal. Perhaps, living life is the only valid meditation.

                    Mish





                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne" <drubezarne@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Mish
                    >
                    > Yes, those pictures of Klemp that are always on display and that
                    > eckists are told are mandatory at every Eckankar event - no matter how
                    > minor just confirm Klemp's narcissism and need to be worshipped.
                    > People don't think of the deeper implications of displaying his
                    > pictures. They just think they have to do it because they were told to
                    > do so by the Eckankar guidelines (rules actually). Even if a group of
                    > eckists meet at someone's home there has to be a picture of Klemp in a
                    > visible location for all to see. Big brother's arm has a long reach.
                    > He reinforces this by his claim that he knows all that goes on in
                    > every person's heart.
                    >
                    > The pictures of the make-believe Eck Masters only fortify his position
                    > as High Muckety-Muck because he likes to remind his followers that he
                    > is the head of this fictitious clan. Klemp has even gone so far as to
                    > say due to the ever evolving nature of life, an Eck Master, today, is
                    > greater than any in the past. How's that for humility! Well, I guess
                    > he might be right because none existed before Paul Twitchell and
                    > Darwin Gross. When measured against those two how can he lose?
                    >
                    > I do have a question, Mish. You said, "I do agree with your comments
                    > about meditation when done properly can be one way to connect with
                    > God." Did you mean there are other ways such as knowing that God is
                    > with you always? If so, I would have to say yes because, what do I
                    > know, there could be people who have a natural talent for such without
                    > having to work at it by meditating.
                    >
                    > Regards
                    > Liska
                    >
                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                    > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > "In Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp repeatedly
                    > > instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters.
                    > > That is why it is so important for good eckists to purchase
                    > > those pics as well as those of HK. When chelas look to
                    > > visualize such beings and then in fact conjure them up
                    > > in meditation, then Klemp and his chelsas proclaim this
                    > > as proof of the validity of the eck masters and the eckankar
                    > > teachings. This is their only proof!!
                    > >
                    > > I do agree with your comments about meditation when done
                    > > properly can be one way to connect with God. Thanks for
                    > > clarifying that.
                    > >
                    > > Mish
                    > >
                    > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
                    > <drubezarne@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I realize that some might view meditation/contemplation as a form of
                    > > > self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation
                    > > > becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to visualize the
                    > > > current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong use of a
                    > > > God given gift because it is being subverted for the aggrandizement of
                    > > > a corrupt leader.
                    > > >
                    > > > Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp during
                    > > > meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of that
                    > > > person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
                    > > > consciousness to accept something that is not true.
                    > > >
                    > > > Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention on God
                    > > > and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand experiences with
                    > > > God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read symbolically and
                    > > > never literally. There are a few quotes he has used from it that might
                    > > > be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and "salute no
                    > > > man as you pass along the highway".
                    > > >
                    > > > When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
                    > > > meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all kinds of
                    > > > troubles for himself and his worshippers.
                    > > >
                    > > > Regards
                    > > > Liska
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                    > > > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
                    > > > > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques that
                    > > > > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
                    > > > > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
                    > > > > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
                    > > > > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
                    > > > > to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
                    > > > > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Mish
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne"
                    > > > <drubezarne@>
                    > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
                    > > > > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly
                    > dreams
                    > > > > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the
                    > omniscience of
                    > > > > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
                    > > > > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
                    > > > > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you
                    > want to
                    > > > > > call them influence people by training them to become
                    > accustomed to
                    > > > > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as
                    > truth.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > After a person's judgement is controlled by that group's
                    > particular
                    > > > > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
                    > > > > > controlled state of consciousness.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of
                    > mystical Eck
                    > > > > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
                    > > > > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
                    > > > > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
                    > > > > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their
                    > state of
                    > > > > > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to
                    > control their
                    > > > > > ideology.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > It is a form of hypnotism started by Paul Twitchell who
                    > trained under
                    > > > > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned
                    > all about
                    > > > > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his
                    > work was
                    > > > > > in the area of autosuggestion.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the
                    > formation of
                    > > > > > Scientology.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Regards
                    > > > > > Liska
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Ingrid
                    Hi Liska   I think we are always connected to the Life Source I don t call it God any more, I call it just Life. And it s full of miracles ... I don t
                    Message 9 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008

                      Hi Liska

                       

                      I think we are always connected to the Life Source
                      I don't call it God any more, I call it just Life.
                      And it's full of miracles ... I don't meditate (or contemplate or whatever) any more (even if I agree that it's good to go still from time to time) and  I still get the gifts of life all the time ... this is so great ...
                      Ingrid

                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:16:44 PM
                      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Use of Hypnotism in Eckankar

                      Mish

                      Yes, those pictures of Klemp that are always on display and that
                      eckists are told are mandatory at every Eckankar event - no matter how
                      minor just confirm Klemp's narcissism and need to be worshipped.
                      People don't think of the deeper implications of displaying his
                      pictures. They just think they have to do it because they were told to
                      do so by the Eckankar guidelines (rules actually). Even if a group of
                      eckists meet at someone's home there has to be a picture of Klemp in a
                      visible location for all to see. Big brother's arm has a long reach.
                      He reinforces this by his claim that he knows all that goes on in
                      every person's heart.

                      The pictures of the make-believe Eck Masters only fortify his position
                      as High Muckety-Muck because he likes to remind his followers that he
                      is the head of this fictitious clan. Klemp has even gone so far as to
                      say due to the ever evolving nature of life, an Eck Master, today, is
                      greater than any in the past. How's that for humility! Well, I guess
                      he might be right because none existed before Paul Twitchell and
                      Darwin Gross. When measured against those two how can he lose?

                      I do have a question, Mish. You said, "I do agree with your comments
                      about meditation when done properly can be one way to connect with
                      God." Did you mean there are other ways such as knowing that God is
                      with you always? If so, I would have to say yes because, what do I
                      know, there could be people who have a natural talent for such without
                      having to work at it by meditating.

                      Regards
                      Liska

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9"
                      <mishmisha9@ ...> wrote:

                      >
                      > "In Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp
                      repeatedly
                      > instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters.
                      > That is why it is so important for good eckists to purchase
                      > those pics as well as those of HK. When chelas look to
                      > visualize such beings and then in fact conjure them up
                      > in meditation, then Klemp and his chelsas proclaim this
                      > as proof of the validity of the eck masters and the eckankar
                      > teachings. This is their only proof!!
                      >
                      > I do agree with your comments about meditation when done
                      > properly can be one way to connect with God. Thanks for
                      > clarifying that.
                      >
                      > Mish
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "drubezarne"
                      <drubezarne@ >
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I realize that some might
                      view meditation/contempl ation as a form of
                      > > self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises, meditation
                      > > becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to visualize the
                      > > current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong use of a
                      > > God given gift because it is being subverted for the aggrandizement of
                      > > a corrupt leader.
                      > >
                      > > Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp during
                      > > meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of that
                      > > person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
                      > > consciousness to accept something that is not true.
                      > >
                      > > Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention on God
                      > > and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand experiences with
                      > > God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read
                      symbolically and
                      > > never literally. There are a few quotes he has used from it that might
                      > > be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and "salute no
                      > > man as you pass along the highway".
                      > >
                      > > When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
                      > > meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all kinds of
                      > > troubles for himself and his worshippers.
                      > >
                      > > Regards
                      > > Liska
                      > >
                      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9"
                      > > <mishmisha9@ > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
                      > > > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques
                      that
                      > > > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me, when
                      > > > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually fell
                      > > > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
                      > > > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real" protection--
                      > > > to not become delusional and believe in the fake mahanta!
                      > > >
                      > > > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
                      > > > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap! : )
                      > > >
                      > > > Mish
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "drubezarne"
                      > > <drubezarne@ >
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
                      > > > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences - mostly
                      dreams
                      > > > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and the
                      omniscience of
                      > > > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the effect, "I believe in
                      > > > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have had inner
                      > > > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or whatever you
                      want to
                      > > > > call them influence people by training them to become
                      accustomed to
                      > > > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false beliefs as
                      truth.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > After a person's judgement is
                      controlled by that group's
                      particular
                      > > > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things according to their
                      > > > > controlled state of consciousness.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the illusions of
                      mystical Eck
                      > > > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar leader, Harold
                      > > > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of their
                      > > > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have dreams of the Eck
                      > > > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > People don't realize these are just manifestations of their
                      state of
                      > > > > consciousness because they have allowed someone else to
                      control their
                      > > > > ideology.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It is a form of hypnotism started by
                      Paul Twitchell who
                      trained under
                      > > > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron Hubbard learned
                      all about
                      > > > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how influential his
                      work was
                      > > > > in the area of autosuggestion.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on the
                      formation of
                      > > > > Scientology.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > http://www.lermanet .com/exit/ hubbard-the- hypnotist2. htm
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Regards
                      > > > > Liska
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >


                    • drubezarne
                      I realize that once a person steps away from Eckankar, they want to rid themselves of all the brainwashing. I still get certain words that pop up when I think
                      Message 10 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
                        I realize that once a person steps away from Eckankar, they want to
                        rid themselves of all the brainwashing. I still get certain words that
                        pop up when I think about God such as Sugmad and Mahanta. I know these
                        are conditioned words from the subconscious. And so, when these
                        unwanted words pop up, I have to edit my thoughts and substitute
                        non-eck terms for them in order to re-condition my subconsciousness.

                        When it comes to meditation, some might think that we should throw
                        that out too and I don't blame them for doing so, especially when
                        they've been duped by charlatans like Harold Klemp, Darwin Gross, and
                        Paul Twitchell.

                        My belief is that meditation when done correctly without visualizing
                        people who claim to be masters can have great benefits and eventually
                        lead to great spiritual insights. If I didn't meditate I would never
                        have found out about the fictitiousness and deceit of Eckankar.

                        I first learned the real truth in meditation and then decided to
                        investigate Eckankar through the Internet and by reading the books
                        plagiarized by Paul Twitchell. It was a combination of inner work and
                        using discrimination or common sense that untangled me from this false
                        path. My inner experiences through meditation gave me the confidence
                        or faith that I was taking the right steps toward independence from
                        all the brainwashing that I had undergone while a member of Eckankar.

                        Everybody has to walk their own path and as I mentioned before some
                        may not need meditation to have experiences with God or the I AM.
                        Unlike some people (Klemp comes to mind), I don't believe I have the
                        right to tell others how to contact God. Those who like to tell people
                        how to contact God too often have their own selfish schemes for
                        personal profit and aggrandizement.

                        Regards
                        Liska

                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Ingrid
                        <ctecvie@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Liska
                        >  
                        > I think we are always connected to the Life Source
                        > I don't call it God any more, I call it just Life.
                        > And it's full of miracles ... I don't meditate (or contemplate or
                        whatever) any more (even if I agree that it's good to go still from
                        time to time) and  I still get the gifts of life all the time ... this
                        is so great ...
                        > Ingrid
                      • etznab@aol.com
                        Ingrid I thought that was beautifully said, Ingrid. Etznab ... From: Ingrid To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 8 Sep
                        Message 11 of 11 , Sep 8, 2008
                          Ingrid

                          I thought that was beautifully said, Ingrid.

                          Etznab

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Ingrid <ctecvie@...>
                          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 2:10 am
                          Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Use of Hypnotism in
                          Eckankar




                          Hi Liska

                           
                          I think we are always connected to the Life Source
                          I don't call it God any more, I call it just Life.
                          And it's full of miracles ... I don't meditate (or contemplate or
                          whatever) any more (even if I agree that it's good to go still from
                          time to time) and  I still get the gifts of life all the time ... this
                          is so great ...
                          Ingrid


                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:16:44 PM
                          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Use of Hypnotism in
                          Eckankar




                          Mish

                          Yes, those pictures of Klemp that are always on display and that
                          eckists are told are mandatory at every Eckankar event - no matter how
                          minor just confirm Klemp's narcissism and need to be worshipped.
                          People don't think of the deeper implications of displaying his
                          pictures. They just think they have to do it because they were told to
                          do so by the Eckankar guidelines (rules actually). Even if a group of
                          eckists meet at someone's home there has to be a picture of Klemp in a
                          visible location for all to see.
                          Big brother's arm has a long reach.
                          He reinforces this by his claim that he knows all that goes on in
                          every person's heart.

                          The pictures of the make-believe Eck Masters only fortify his position
                          as High Muckety-Muck because he likes to remind his followers that he
                          is the head of this fictitious clan. Klemp has even gone so far as to
                          say due to the ever evolving nature of life, an Eck Master,
                          today, is
                          greater than any in the past. How's that for humility! Well, I guess
                          he might be right because none existed before Paul Twitchell and
                          Darwin Gross. When measured against those two how can he lose?

                          I do have a question, Mish. You said, "I do agree with your comments
                          about meditation when done properly can be one way to connect with
                          God." Did you mean there are other ways such as knowing that God is
                          with you always? If so, I would have to say yes because, what do I
                          know, there could be people who have a natural talent for such without
                          having to work at it by meditating.

                          Regards
                          Liska

                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9"
                          <mishmisha9@ ...> wrote:
                          >
                          > "In Those Wonderful ECK Masters," Klemp
                          repeatedly
                          > instructs chelas to visualize the bogus eck masters.
                          > That is why it is so important for good eckists to purchase
                          > those pics as well as those of HK. When chelas look to
                          > visualize such beings and then in fact conjure them up
                          > in meditation, then K
                          lemp and his chelsas proclaim this
                          > as proof of the validity of the eck masters and the eckankar
                          > teachings. This is their only proof!!
                          >
                          > I do agree with your comments about meditation when done
                          > properly can be one way to connect with God. Thanks for
                          > clarifying that.
                          >
                          > Mish
                          >
                          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "drubezarne"
                          <drubezarne@ >
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I realize that some might
                          view meditation/contempl ation as a form of
                          > > self-hypnosis. In many of the Eckankar spiritual exercises,
                          meditation
                          > > becomes self-hypnosis because its followers are asked to
                          visualize the
                          > > current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. This is the wrong
                          use of a
                          > > God given gift because it is being subverted for the
                          aggrandizement of
                          > > a corrupt leader.
                          > >
                          > > Repeated visualization and wish fulfillment of Harold Klemp
                          during
                          > > meditation will eventually bring about dreams or visions of
                          that
                          > > person. Using autosuggestion like this will condition the
                          > > consciousness to accept something that is not true.
                          > >
                          > > Meditation when practiced correctly by placing the attention
                          on God
                          > > and not some person, can eventually lead to firsthand
                          experiences with
                          > > God. Neville Goddard said the bible should be read
                          symbolically and
                          > > never literally. There are a20few quotes he has used from it
                          that might
                          > > be applicable here. "He that travels alone travels far" and
                          "salute no
                          > > man as you pass along the highway".
                          > >
                          > > When a corrupt leader like Klemp misleads his followers to use
                          > > meditation for his own selfish purposes he is inviting all
                          kinds of
                          > > troubles for himself and his worshippers.
                          > >
                          > > Regards
                          > > Liska
                          > >
                          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com,
                          "mishmisha9"
                          > > <mishmisha9@ > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > This is very true. I noticed how much the eck spiritual
                          > > > exercises are really just brain-washing techniques
                          that
                          > > > Klemp instructs his chelas to use. Fortunately for me,
                          when
                          > > > I attempted these exercises while a member, I usually
                          fell
                          > > > asleep or was making up shopping lists or whatever in my
                          > > > mind . . .obviously I was receiving some "real"
                          protection--
                          > > > to not become delusional and believe in the fake
                          mahanta!
                          > > >
                          > > > Incorporated in Klemp's books are those brainwashing
                          > > > spiritual exercises! These give spirituality a bad rap!
                          : )
                          > > >
                          > > > Mish
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com,
                          "drubezarne"
                          > > <drubezarne@ >
                          > > > wrote:

                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          Prometheus and all, do you know the biggest obstacle to convincing
                          > > > > eckists they are chasing an illusion?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > It is their conviction that their inner experiences
                          - mostly
                          dreams
                          > > > > are the proof of the existence of Eck Masters and
                          the
                          omniscience of
                          > > > > Harold Klemp. They will say something to the
                          effect, "I believe in
                          > > > > Harold Klemp and the Eck teachings because I have
                          had inner
                          > > > > experiences that prove they really exist!"
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Eckankar like so many other religions, cults, or
                          whatever you
                          want to
                          > > > > call them influence people by training them to
                          become
                          accustomed to
                          > > > > their doctrine and as a result accept these false
                          beliefs as
                          truth.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > After a person's judgement is
                          controlled by that group's
                          particular
                          > > > > bias, he/she start to see and believe things
                          according to their
                          > > > > controlled state of consciousness.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In the case of Eckankar, they believe in the
                          illusions of
                          mystical Eck
                          > > > > Masters and the unlimited power of their Eckankar
                          leader, Harold
                          > > > > Klemp. This belief system goes to the very heart of 0D
                          their
                          > > > > subconsciousness and as a result they will have
                          dreams of the Eck
                          > > > > Masters, Harold Klemp, and Wisdom Temples.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > People don't realize these are just manifestations
                          of their
                          state of
                          > > > > consciousness because they have allowed someone
                          else to
                          control their
                          > > > > ideology.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > It is a form of hypnotism started by
                          Paul Twitchell who
                          trained under
                          > > > > Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. Ron
                          Hubbard learned
                          all about
                          > > > > hypnotism from the writings of Emile Coue.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Just google Emile Coue and you will find how
                          influential his
                          work was
                          > > > > in the area of autosuggestion.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Here's just one link that shows Coue's influence on
                          the
                          formation of
                          > > > > Scientology.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > http://www.lermanet .com/exit/ hubbard-the-
                          hypnotist2. htm
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Regards
                          > > > > Liska
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
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