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Re: Harold Klemp says He is God and has Unlimited Power

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  • drubezarne
    Prometheus, Liz, and all: The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I m beginning to think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 6 12:17 PM
      Prometheus, Liz, and all:

      The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
      think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
      had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.

      Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
      one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
      personality type.

      All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
      greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
      God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
      outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).

      Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
      overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.

      Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.

      Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
      the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
      master, we should focus on him.

      Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
      itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
      towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.

      New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
      Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
      personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
      fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
      depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"

      Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and Narcissism.

      1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
      seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
      Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
      examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
      as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
      all the universes.

      2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
      plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
      Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
      Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
      paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
      sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
      from it on this forum.

      He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
      above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
      the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
      Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
      followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.

      3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
      evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
      to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.

      Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
      other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.

      1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.

      or

      2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
      your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
      become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
      the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
      has unlimited power..."

      Regards
      Liska


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
      <ewickings@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
      Klemp! Maybe
      > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
      the rod
      > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
      revolve around
      > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
      anything other
      > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
      >
      > -------Original Message-------
      >
      > From: prometheus_973
      > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
      God and
      > has Unlimited Power
      >
      > Hello Liska and All,
      > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
      > reason HK uses third person is to appear
      > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
      > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
      > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
      > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
      > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
      > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
      >
      > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
      > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
      > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
      > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
      > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
      > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
      >
      > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
      > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
      > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
      > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
      >
      > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
      > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
      >
      > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
      > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
      > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
      > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
      > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
      > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
      >
      > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
      > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
      >
      > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
      > on Oct. 22nd?
      >
      > What month and day was Klemp born on?
      >
      > Was Klemp born in May?
      >
      > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
      > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
      >
      > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
      > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
      > the lies that became Eckankar!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > Liska wrote:
      > >
      > Note how in the previous post with Harold
      > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
      > in the third person. Some psychologists will
      > tell you that people who speak in the third
      > person have some kind of split personality
      > that makes them look at themselves as a
      > completely different person. They call it
      > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
      > >
      > Those of you who are still sitting on the
      > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
      > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
      > >
      > Regards
      > Liška V Drubežárne
      > >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, It s interesting that Twitchell was married twice and Gross was married how many times? Klemp was married twice as well and has one child. Yet,
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 6 6:20 PM
        Hello All,
        It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
        and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
        was married twice as well and has one child.

        Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
        expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
        of Relationships."

        Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
        from "The Language of Soul:"

        "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
        is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
        to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
        they be divided?"

        [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
        where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
        one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
        relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
        good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
        console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
        and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
        were to be chosen to replace Paul!

        HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
        Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
        A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
        individual, BUT the two are as one."

        [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
        back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
        mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
        Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
        where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
        capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
        HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
        The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
        of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
        take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
        probably are some females standing in line just as
        Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
        ladies! LOL!

        Prometheus

        drubezarne wrote:
        >
        > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
        >
        > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
        > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
        > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
        >
        > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
        > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
        > personality type.
        >
        > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
        > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
        > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
        > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
        >
        > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
        > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
        >
        > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
        >
        > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
        > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
        > master, we should focus on him.
        >
        > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
        > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
        > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
        >
        > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
        > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
        > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
        > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
        > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
        >
        > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and Narcissism.
        >
        > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
        > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
        > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
        > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
        > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
        > all the universes.
        >
        > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
        > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
        > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
        > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
        > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
        > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
        > from it on this forum.
        >
        > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
        > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
        > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
        > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
        > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
        >
        > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
        > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
        > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
        >
        > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
        > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
        >
        > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
        >
        > or
        >
        > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
        > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
        > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
        > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
        > has unlimited power..."
        >
        > Regards
        > Liska
        >
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
        > <ewickings@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
        > Klemp! Maybe
        > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
        > the rod
        > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
        > revolve around
        > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
        > anything other
        > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
        > >
        > > -------Original Message-------
        > >
        > > From: prometheus_973
        > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
        > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
        > God and
        > > has Unlimited Power
        > >
        > > Hello Liska and All,
        > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
        > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
        > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
        > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
        > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
        > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
        > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
        > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
        > >
        > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
        > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
        > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
        > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
        > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
        > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
        > >
        > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
        > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
        > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
        > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
        > >
        > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
        > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
        > >
        > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
        > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
        > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
        > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
        > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
        > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
        > >
        > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
        > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
        > >
        > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
        > > on Oct. 22nd?
        > >
        > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
        > >
        > > Was Klemp born in May?
        > >
        > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
        > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
        > >
        > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
        > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
        > > the lies that became Eckankar!
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > > Liska wrote:
        > > >
        > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
        > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
        > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
        > > tell you that people who speak in the third
        > > person have some kind of split personality
        > > that makes them look at themselves as a
        > > completely different person. They call it
        > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
        > > >
        > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
        > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
        > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
        > > >
        > > Regards
        > > Liška V Drubežárne
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        >
      • drubezarne
        Prometheus: Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect example of how lame and superficial HK s writings are and how often they
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 7 1:56 PM
          Prometheus:

          Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
          example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
          they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
          to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
          claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
          consciousness in all the universes.

          A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
          have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...

          Samuel Johnson:
          "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
          Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson

          "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
          those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
          married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
          fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
          Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)

          Oscar Wilde
          "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."

          Deepak Chopra
          "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
          you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
          If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
          craves certainty."

          Groucho Marx:
          "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
          doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
          interfere."

          I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
          because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
          Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
          daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
          you think?

          Regards
          Liska

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
          > and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
          > was married twice as well and has one child.
          >
          > Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
          > expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
          > of Relationships."
          >
          > Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
          > from "The Language of Soul:"
          >
          > "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
          > is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
          > to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
          > they be divided?"
          >
          > [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
          > where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
          > one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
          > relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
          > good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
          > console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
          > and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
          > were to be chosen to replace Paul!
          >
          > HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
          > Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
          > A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
          > individual, BUT the two are as one."
          >
          > [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
          > back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
          > mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
          > Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
          > where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
          > capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
          > HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
          > The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
          > of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
          > take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
          > probably are some females standing in line just as
          > Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
          > ladies! LOL!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > drubezarne wrote:
          > >
          > > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
          > >
          > > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
          > > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
          > > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
          > >
          > > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
          > > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
          > > personality type.
          > >
          > > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
          > > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
          > > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
          > > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
          > >
          > > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
          > > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
          > >
          > > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
          > >
          > > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
          > > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
          > > master, we should focus on him.
          > >
          > > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
          > > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
          > > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
          > >
          > > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
          > > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
          > > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
          > > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
          > > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
          > >
          > > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and
          Narcissism.
          > >
          > > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
          > > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
          > > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
          > > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
          > > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
          > > all the universes.
          > >
          > > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
          > > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
          > > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
          > > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
          > > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
          > > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
          > > from it on this forum.
          > >
          > > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
          > > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
          > > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
          > > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
          > > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
          > >
          > > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
          > > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
          > > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
          > >
          > > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
          > > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
          > >
          > > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
          > >
          > > or
          > >
          > > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
          > > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
          > > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
          > > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
          > > has unlimited power..."
          > >
          > > Regards
          > > Liska
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
          > > <ewickings@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
          > > Klemp! Maybe
          > > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
          > > the rod
          > > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
          > > revolve around
          > > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
          > > anything other
          > > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
          > > >
          > > > -------Original Message-------
          > > >
          > > > From: prometheus_973
          > > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
          > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
          > > God and
          > > > has Unlimited Power
          > > >
          > > > Hello Liska and All,
          > > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
          > > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
          > > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
          > > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
          > > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
          > > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
          > > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
          > > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
          > > >
          > > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
          > > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
          > > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
          > > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
          > > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
          > > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
          > > >
          > > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
          > > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
          > > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
          > > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
          > > >
          > > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
          > > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
          > > >
          > > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
          > > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
          > > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
          > > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
          > > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
          > > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
          > > >
          > > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
          > > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
          > > >
          > > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
          > > > on Oct. 22nd?
          > > >
          > > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
          > > >
          > > > Was Klemp born in May?
          > > >
          > > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
          > > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
          > > >
          > > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
          > > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
          > > > the lies that became Eckankar!
          > > >
          > > > Prometheus
          > > >
          > > > Liska wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
          > > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
          > > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
          > > > tell you that people who speak in the third
          > > > person have some kind of split personality
          > > > that makes them look at themselves as a
          > > > completely different person. They call it
          > > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
          > > > >
          > > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
          > > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
          > > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
          > > > >
          > > > Regards
          > > > Liška V Drubežárne
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Drew van Rijk
          Apparently HK s daughter isnotonly not an eckist but has cutoff all ties and HK has no access to his grandchild. ... From: drubezarne
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 7 9:20 PM
            Apparently HK's daughter isnotonly not an eckist but has cutoff all ties and HK
            has no access to his grandchild.

            --- On Thu, 8/7/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
            From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: All Three Mahantas Had Relationship Problems!
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Received: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 4:56 PM

            Prometheus:

            Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
            example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
            they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
            to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
            claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
            consciousness in all the universes.

            A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
            have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...

            Samuel Johnson:
            "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
            Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson

            "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
            those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
            married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
            fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
            Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)

            Oscar Wilde
            "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."

            Deepak Chopra
            "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
            you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
            If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
            craves certainty."

            Groucho Marx:
            "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
            doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
            interfere."

            I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
            because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
            Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
            daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
            you think?

            Regards
            Liska

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_ 973"
            <prometheus_ 973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
            > and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
            > was married twice as well and has one child.
            >
            > Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
            > expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
            > of Relationships. "
            >
            > Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
            > from "The Language of Soul:"
            >
            > "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
            > is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
            > to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
            > they be divided?"
            >
            > [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
            > where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
            > one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
            > relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
            > good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
            > console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
            > and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
            > were to be chosen to replace Paul!
            >
            > HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
            > Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
            > A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
            > individual, BUT the two are as one."
            >
            > [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
            > back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
            > mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
            > Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
            > where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
            > capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
            > HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
            > The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
            > of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
            > take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
            > probably are some females standing in line just as
            > Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
            > ladies! LOL!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > drubezarne wrote:
            > >
            > > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
            > >
            > > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
            > > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
            > > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
            > >
            > > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
            > > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
            > > personality type.
            > >
            > > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
            > > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
            > > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
            > > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
            > >
            > > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
            > > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
            > >
            > > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
            > >
            > > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
            > > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
            > > master, we should focus on him.
            > >
            > > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
            > > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
            > > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
            > >
            > > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
            > > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
            > > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
            > > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
            > > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
            > >
            > > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and
            Narcissism.
            > >
            > > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
            > > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
            > > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
            > > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
            > > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
            > > all the universes.
            > >
            > > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
            > > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
            > > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
            > > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
            > > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
            > > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
            > > from it on this forum.
            > >
            > > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
            > > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
            > > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
            > > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
            > > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
            > >
            > > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
            > > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
            > > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
            > >
            > > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
            > > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
            > >
            > > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
            > >
            > > or
            > >
            > > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
            > > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
            > > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
            > > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
            > > has unlimited power..."
            > >
            > > Regards
            > > Liska
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "Elizabeth"
            > > <ewickings@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
            > > Klemp! Maybe
            > > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
            > > the rod
            > > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
            > > revolve around
            > > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
            > > anything other
            > > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
            > > >
            > > > -------Original Message----- --
            > > >
            > > > From: prometheus_973
            > > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
            > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
            > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
            > > God and
            > > > has Unlimited Power
            > > >
            > > > Hello Liska and All,
            > > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
            > > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
            > > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
            > > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
            > > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
            > > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
            > > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
            > > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
            > > >
            > > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
            > > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
            > > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
            > > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
            > > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
            > > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
            > > >
            > > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
            > > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
            > > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
            > > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
            > > >
            > > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
            > > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
            > > >
            > > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
            > > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
            > > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
            > > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
            > > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
            > > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
            > > >
            > > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
            > > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
            > > >
            > > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
            > > > on Oct. 22nd?
            > > >
            > > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
            > > >
            > > > Was Klemp born in May?
            > > >
            > > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
            > > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
            > > >
            > > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
            > > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
            > > > the lies that became Eckankar!
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > > >
            > > > Liska wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
            > > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
            > > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
            > > > tell you that people who speak in the third
            > > > person have some kind of split personality
            > > > that makes them look at themselves as a
            > > > completely different person. They call it
            > > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
            > > > >
            > > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
            > > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
            > > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
            > > > >
            > > > Regards
            > > > Liška V Drubežárne
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > >
            >



            Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger
          • drubezarne
            Hi Mish, Drew, Liz, and all: I didn t realize Phil Morimitsu s books are no longer printed. I heard from a former H.I. who used to live in Minneapolis that a
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 8 8:51 AM
              Hi Mish, Drew, Liz, and all:

              I didn't realize Phil Morimitsu's books are no longer printed. I heard
              from a former H.I. who used to live in Minneapolis that a while back
              Phil wrote a book about Rebazar. In this book, he basically said he
              (Phil) was the next Living Eck Master. Of course, the book was never
              published and now we know why. Phil was sent to Asia (exile?) to
              spread the word of Eck.

              He still travels to seminars giving talks. Many eckists look up to and
              idolize Phil. I've seen it first-hand. For a path that advocates that
              all Souls are equal, it's very puzzling that there is so much
              glorification of personalities and of course the worship and devotion
              to HK. Isn't this idolatry? When we see so much adoration given to
              mythical Eck Masters, HK, and certain H.I.'s, isn't this enough of a
              clue that there's something wrong here. Wouldn't you think a true path
              to God only asks that we give our love and devotion exclusively to God?

              I consider Harold Klemp a usurper of God. He has placed himself as an
              intermediary between his followers and God. He constantly writes about
              himself (in the third person) as God on earth and says we should give
              our love and devotion to him - not God, but to him. It's a sad state
              of affairs, when I see these brainwashed eckists proclaiming their
              love for Harold Klemp at seminars and Satsang classes. They don't
              think they are worshiping the personality because they say they love
              the Mahanta, but according to Klemp, he says he is the Mahanta. So,
              whom are they really worshipping?

              It's ironic that James Davis, author of the Rosetta Stone of God,
              renounced his own book and left Eckankar, but Eckankar continues to
              print his book.

              Drew, where did you hear about HK's daughter cutting off all ties with
              him? I'm curious to learn more about this. It reminds me of Gail
              Twitchell cutting off ties with Eckankar.

              Regards
              Liska


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Drew van Rijk
              <drewvanr@...> wrote:
              >
              > Apparently HK's daughter isnotonly not an eckist but has cutoff all
              ties and HK
              > has no access to his grandchild.
              >
              > --- On Thu, 8/7/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: All Three Mahantas Had
              Relationship Problems!
              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > Received: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 4:56 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Prometheus:
              >
              > Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
              > example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
              > they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
              > to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
              > claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
              > consciousness in all the universes.
              >
              > A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
              > have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...
              >
              > Samuel Johnson:
              > "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
              > Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson
              >
              > "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
              > those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
              > married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
              > fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
              > Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)
              >
              > Oscar Wilde
              > "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."
              >
              > Deepak Chopra
              > "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
              > you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
              > If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
              > craves certainty."
              >
              > Groucho Marx:
              > "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
              > doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
              > interfere."
              >
              > I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
              > because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
              > Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
              > daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
              > you think?
              >
              > Regards
              > Liska
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_ 973"
              > <prometheus_ 973@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello All,
              > > It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
              > > and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
              > > was married twice as well and has one child.
              > >
              > > Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
              > > expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
              > > of Relationships. "
              > >
              > > Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
              > > from "The Language of Soul:"
              > >
              > > "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
              > > is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
              > > to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
              > > they be divided?"
              > >
              > > [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
              > > where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
              > > one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
              > > relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
              > > good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
              > > console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
              > > and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
              > > were to be chosen to replace Paul!
              > >
              > > HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
              > > Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
              > > A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
              > > individual, BUT the two are as one."
              > >
              > > [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
              > > back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
              > > mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
              > > Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
              > > where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
              > > capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
              > > HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
              > > The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
              > > of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
              > > take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
              > > probably are some females standing in line just as
              > > Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
              > > ladies! LOL!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > > drubezarne wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
              > > >
              > > > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
              > > > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck
              Masters
              > > > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
              > > >
              > > > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose
              view of
              > > > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
              > > > personality type.
              > > >
              > > > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
              > > > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
              > > > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
              > > > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
              > > >
              > > > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
              > > > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
              > > >
              > > > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
              > > >
              > > > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and
              covered up
              > > > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
              > > > master, we should focus on him.
              > > >
              > > > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
              > > > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of
              empathy
              > > > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
              > > >
              > > > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
              > > > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
              > > > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy,
              grandiose
              > > > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
              > > > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
              > > >
              > > > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and
              > Narcissism.
              > > >
              > > > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've
              already
              > > > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
              > > > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
              > > > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
              > > > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
              > > > all the universes.
              > > >
              > > > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
              > > > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
              > > > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
              > > > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
              > > > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the
              cake. I'm
              > > > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
              > > > from it on this forum.
              > > >
              > > > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
              > > > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
              > > > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous
              quotes by
              > > > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
              > > > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
              > > >
              > > > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've
              seen
              > > > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he
              refers
              > > > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
              > > >
              > > > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
              > > > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
              > > >
              > > > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
              > > >
              > > > or
              > > >
              > > > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
              > > > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
              > > > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
              > > > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on
              earth and
              > > > has unlimited power..."
              > > >
              > > > Regards
              > > > Liska
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "Elizabeth"
              > > > <ewickings@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
              > > > Klemp! Maybe
              > > > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
              > > > the rod
              > > > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
              > > > revolve around
              > > > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
              > > > anything other
              > > > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
              > > > >
              > > > > -------Original Message----- --
              > > > >
              > > > > From: prometheus_973
              > > > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
              > > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
              > > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
              > > > God and
              > > > > has Unlimited Power
              > > > >
              > > > > Hello Liska and All,
              > > > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
              > > > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
              > > > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
              > > > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
              > > > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
              > > > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
              > > > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
              > > > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
              > > > >
              > > > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
              > > > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
              > > > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
              > > > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
              > > > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
              > > > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
              > > > >
              > > > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
              > > > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
              > > > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
              > > > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
              > > > >
              > > > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
              > > > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
              > > > >
              > > > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
              > > > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
              > > > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
              > > > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
              > > > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
              > > > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
              > > > >
              > > > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
              > > > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
              > > > >
              > > > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
              > > > > on Oct. 22nd?
              > > > >
              > > > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
              > > > >
              > > > > Was Klemp born in May?
              > > > >
              > > > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
              > > > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
              > > > >
              > > > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
              > > > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
              > > > > the lies that became Eckankar!
              > > > >
              > > > > Prometheus
              > > > >
              > > > > Liska wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
              > > > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
              > > > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
              > > > > tell you that people who speak in the third
              > > > > person have some kind of split personality
              > > > > that makes them look at themselves as a
              > > > > completely different person. They call it
              > > > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
              > > > > >
              > > > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
              > > > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
              > > > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
              > > > > >
              > > > > Regards
              > > > > Liška V Drubežárne
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
              > > > >
              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________________________
              > Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new
              Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
              >
            • Elizabeth
              James Davis book is not still being printed by eckankar! Guess then why Those wonderful eck masters was published? Klemp had to be able to validate the
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 8 9:35 AM
                 
                 
                James Davis' book is not "still" being printed by eckankar!  Guess then why "Those wonderful eck masters" was published?   Klemp had to be able to validate the lineage of  and prove the masters exist since Davis did a 180 and claimed they were nothing but a fairy tale... 
                 
                Liz
                 
                 
                -------Original Message-------
                 
                Date: 8/8/2008 11:51:17 AM
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: All Three Mahantas Had Relationship Problems!
                 
                It's ironic that James Davis, author of the Rosetta Stone of God,
                renounced his own book and left Eckankar, but Eckankar continues to
                print his book.
                 
                 
                Regards
                Liska
                 
              • prometheus_973
                Hello All, Yes, Phil is still a Co-RESA of all of Asia. Phil s books were Not reprinted because Klemp didn t want anyone except himself as LEM/Mahanta to be
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 8 11:28 AM
                  Hello All,
                  Yes, Phil is still a Co-RESA of all of Asia.
                  Phil's books were Not reprinted because
                  Klemp didn't want anyone except himself
                  as LEM/Mahanta to be worshipped IF anyone
                  was to be worshipped!

                  BTW-I was going through some of Klemp's
                  Wisdon Notes (I'm missing most of those from
                  the 90's for some reason) and found some
                  interesting info. Perhaps, Klemp needs to look
                  into the mirror more often and review his own
                  words and behaviours too!

                  HK: "... the Mahanta is faceless."

                  "Salt Lake City is sometimes referred to as a
                  swindler's mecca. Oddly, most of the swindles
                  are done by one member of the Mormon church
                  against another member." [Fall 1985 Wisdom Notes]

                  [ME] That's not very nice to say about the Morons
                  when Klemp also states, "Mahdis use the IMPLIED
                  STATUS of their RANK in Eckankar to gain clients
                  or participants in their business." [Fall 1985
                  Wisdom Notes]

                  Also, I thought the Mahanta or Inner Master had
                  the FACE of Klemp and was Not 'Faceless!'

                  HK: "Although the churches are empty on Sundays,
                  millions of paying 'tax Christians' SECURE THEIR
                  PLACE IN HEAVEN BY STAYING REGISTERED MEMBERS
                  AND FILLING THE CASH BOX OF THE CHURCHES.
                  THE CHURCH KNOWS THAT EVERY LOST MEMBER
                  MEANS LOST REVENUE.

                  ... The most attractive part of the ECK teachings
                  is the one-on-one relationship between them
                  and the Master. ALSO, THEY CAN REALIZE GOD
                  NOW WITHOUT A PRIEST OR CHURCH ATMOSPHERE"
                  [Fall 1983 The Wisdom Notes]

                  [ME] Doesn't Eckankar require an ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP
                  in order to 'SECURE' those INITIATIONS and their
                  'Place in Heaven' too! Doesn't this required annual
                  Eckankar membership cost money? It's Not Free!

                  Also, isn't it true that ECKANKAR has adopted the
                  same characteristics as the 'churches' Klemp is
                  putting down: ECK Worship Services; EK Clerics
                  or EK Priests; A Songbook; EK Chorus; various
                  religious ceremonies; an Outdoor Chapel; a Temple;
                  Donations; etc. BTW- Look at all of the ways ECKists
                  can DONATE their MONEY!

                  There's a whole section on Eckankar.org (members
                  only-password:translation) that is dedicated to
                  Donations! Klemp's Eckankar has been modeled
                  after the Christian Churches HK was speaking of,
                  and demeaning, 25 YEARS AGO!

                  On Another Note: Klemp has Three Grandchildren!

                  Prometheus


                  drubezarne wrote:
                  >
                  Hi Mish, Drew, Liz, and all:
                  >
                  I didn't realize Phil Morimitsu's books are no longer printed. I heard
                  from a former H.I. who used to live in Minneapolis that a while back
                  Phil wrote a book about Rebazar. In this book, he basically said he
                  (Phil) was the next Living Eck Master. Of course, the book was never
                  published and now we know why. Phil was sent to Asia (exile?) to
                  spread the word of Eck.
                  >
                  He still travels to seminars giving talks. Many eckists look up to and
                  idolize Phil. I've seen it first-hand. For a path that advocates that
                  all Souls are equal, it's very puzzling that there is so much
                  glorification of personalities and of course the worship and devotion
                  to HK. Isn't this idolatry? When we see so much adoration given to
                  mythical Eck Masters, HK, and certain H.I.'s, isn't this enough of a
                  clue that there's something wrong here. Wouldn't you think a true path
                  to God only asks that we give our love and devotion exclusively to God?
                  >
                  I consider Harold Klemp a usurper of God. He has placed himself as an
                  intermediary between his followers and God. He constantly writes about
                  himself (in the third person) as God on earth and says we should give
                  our love and devotion to him - not God, but to him. It's a sad state
                  of affairs, when I see these brainwashed eckists proclaiming their
                  love for Harold Klemp at seminars and Satsang classes. They don't
                  think they are worshiping the personality because they say they love
                  the Mahanta, but according to Klemp, he says he is the Mahanta. So,
                  whom are they really worshipping?
                  >
                  It's ironic that James Davis, author of the Rosetta Stone of God,
                  renounced his own book and left Eckankar, but Eckankar continues to
                  print his book.
                  >
                  Drew, where did you hear about HK's daughter cutting off all ties with
                  him? I'm curious to learn more about this. It reminds me of Gail
                  Twitchell cutting off ties with Eckankar.
                  >
                  Regards
                  Liska
                  >
                  >
                  Drew van Rijk wrote:
                  > >
                  Apparently HK's daughter is not only not an eckist but has cutoff all
                  ties and HK has no access to his grandchild.
                  > >
                  drubezarne@> wrote:

                  > >
                  > > Prometheus:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
                  > > example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
                  > > they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
                  > > to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
                  > > claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
                  > > consciousness in all the universes.
                  > >
                  > > A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
                  > > have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...
                  > >
                  > > Samuel Johnson:
                  > > "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
                  > > Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson
                  > >
                  > > "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
                  > > those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
                  > > married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
                  > > fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
                  > > Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)
                  > >
                  > > Oscar Wilde
                  > > "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."
                  > >
                  > > Deepak Chopra
                  > > "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
                  > > you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
                  > > If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
                  > > craves certainty."
                  > >
                  > > Groucho Marx:
                  > > "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
                  > > doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
                  > > interfere."
                  > >
                  > > I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
                  > > because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
                  > > Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
                  > > daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
                  > > you think?
                  > >
                  > > Regards
                  > > Liska
                  > >
                  prometheus wrote:
                  > > >
                  Hello All,
                  It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
                  and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
                  was married twice as well and has one child.
                  > > >
                  Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
                  expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
                  of Relationships. "
                  > > >
                  Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
                  from "The Language of Soul:"
                  > > >
                  "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
                  is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
                  to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
                  they be divided?"
                  > > >
                  [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
                  where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
                  one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
                  relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
                  good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
                  console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
                  and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
                  were to be chosen to replace Paul!
                  > > >
                  HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
                  Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
                  A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
                  individual, BUT the two are as one."
                  > > >
                  [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
                  back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
                  mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
                  Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
                  where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
                  capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
                  HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
                  The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
                  of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
                  take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
                  probably are some females standing in line just as
                  Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
                  ladies! LOL!
                  > > >
                  Prometheus
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