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Re: Harold Klemp says He is God and has Unlimited Power

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Liska and All, I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another reason HK uses third person is to appear humble. This way Klemp can give kudos to the Mahanta
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 6, 2008
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      Hello Liska and All,
      I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
      reason HK uses third person is to appear
      "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
      to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
      seem like detached comments. When Klemp
      uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
      he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
      it's because he is speaking in "third" person!

      BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
      Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
      movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
      Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
      Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
      very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!

      ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
      22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
      date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
      OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?

      The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
      Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]

      Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
      POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
      Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
      After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
      earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
      The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!

      Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
      to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!

      But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
      on Oct. 22nd?

      What month and day was Klemp born on?

      Was Klemp born in May?

      PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
      Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!

      So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
      Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
      the lies that became Eckankar!

      Prometheus

      Liska wrote:
      >
      Note how in the previous post with Harold
      Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
      in the third person. Some psychologists will
      tell you that people who speak in the third
      person have some kind of split personality
      that makes them look at themselves as a
      completely different person. They call it
      Dissociative Identity Disorder.
      >
      Those of you who are still sitting on the
      fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
      the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
      >
      Regards
      Liška V Drubežárne
      >
    • Elizabeth
      Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or Klemp! Maybe these two LEM s knew the truth about PT s eck new year, passing of the rod all
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 6, 2008
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        Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or Klemp!  Maybe these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of the rod all along....   Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events revolve around PT's alleged birth date.  Gross and Klemp can't come up with anything other than keeping their birth date a secret.....      
         
        -------Original Message-------
         
        Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is God and has Unlimited Power
         
        Hello Liska and All,
        I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
        reason HK uses third person is to appear
        "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
        to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
        seem like detached comments. When Klemp
        uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
        he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
        it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
         
        BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
        Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
        movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
        Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
        Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
        very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
         
        ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
        22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also,  the
        date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
        OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
         
        The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
        Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
         
        Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
        POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
        Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
        After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
        earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
        The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
         
        Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
        to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
         
        But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
        on Oct. 22nd?
         
        What month and day was Klemp born on?
         
        Was Klemp born in May?
         
        PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
        Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
         
        So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
        Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
        the lies that became Eckankar!
         
        Prometheus
         
        Liska wrote:
        >
        Note how in the previous post with Harold
        Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
        in the third person. Some psychologists will
        tell you that people who speak in the third
        person have some kind of split personality
        that makes them look at themselves as a
        completely different person. They call it
        Dissociative Identity Disorder.
        >
        Those of you who are still sitting on the
        fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
        the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
        >
        Regards
        Liška V Drubežárne
        >
         
         
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      • drubezarne
        Prometheus, Liz, and all: The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I m beginning to think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 6, 2008
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          Prometheus, Liz, and all:

          The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
          think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
          had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.

          Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
          one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
          personality type.

          All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
          greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
          God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
          outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).

          Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
          overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.

          Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.

          Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
          the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
          master, we should focus on him.

          Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
          itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
          towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.

          New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
          Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
          personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
          fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
          depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"

          Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and Narcissism.

          1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
          seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
          Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
          examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
          as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
          all the universes.

          2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
          plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
          Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
          Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
          paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
          sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
          from it on this forum.

          He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
          above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
          the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
          Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
          followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.

          3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
          evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
          to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.

          Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
          other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.

          1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.

          or

          2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
          your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
          become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
          the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
          has unlimited power..."

          Regards
          Liska


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
          <ewickings@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
          Klemp! Maybe
          > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
          the rod
          > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
          revolve around
          > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
          anything other
          > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
          >
          > -------Original Message-------
          >
          > From: prometheus_973
          > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
          God and
          > has Unlimited Power
          >
          > Hello Liska and All,
          > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
          > reason HK uses third person is to appear
          > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
          > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
          > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
          > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
          > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
          > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
          >
          > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
          > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
          > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
          > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
          > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
          > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
          >
          > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
          > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
          > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
          > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
          >
          > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
          > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
          >
          > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
          > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
          > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
          > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
          > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
          > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
          >
          > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
          > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
          >
          > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
          > on Oct. 22nd?
          >
          > What month and day was Klemp born on?
          >
          > Was Klemp born in May?
          >
          > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
          > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
          >
          > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
          > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
          > the lies that became Eckankar!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > Liska wrote:
          > >
          > Note how in the previous post with Harold
          > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
          > in the third person. Some psychologists will
          > tell you that people who speak in the third
          > person have some kind of split personality
          > that makes them look at themselves as a
          > completely different person. They call it
          > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
          > >
          > Those of you who are still sitting on the
          > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
          > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
          > >
          > Regards
          > Liška V Drubežárne
          > >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, It s interesting that Twitchell was married twice and Gross was married how many times? Klemp was married twice as well and has one child. Yet,
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 6, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello All,
            It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
            and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
            was married twice as well and has one child.

            Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
            expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
            of Relationships."

            Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
            from "The Language of Soul:"

            "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
            is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
            to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
            they be divided?"

            [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
            where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
            one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
            relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
            good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
            console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
            and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
            were to be chosen to replace Paul!

            HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
            Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
            A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
            individual, BUT the two are as one."

            [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
            back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
            mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
            Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
            where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
            capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
            HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
            The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
            of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
            take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
            probably are some females standing in line just as
            Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
            ladies! LOL!

            Prometheus

            drubezarne wrote:
            >
            > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
            >
            > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
            > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
            > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
            >
            > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
            > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
            > personality type.
            >
            > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
            > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
            > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
            > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
            >
            > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
            > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
            >
            > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
            >
            > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
            > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
            > master, we should focus on him.
            >
            > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
            > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
            > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
            >
            > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
            > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
            > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
            > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
            > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
            >
            > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and Narcissism.
            >
            > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
            > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
            > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
            > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
            > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
            > all the universes.
            >
            > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
            > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
            > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
            > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
            > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
            > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
            > from it on this forum.
            >
            > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
            > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
            > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
            > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
            > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
            >
            > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
            > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
            > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
            >
            > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
            > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
            >
            > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
            >
            > or
            >
            > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
            > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
            > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
            > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
            > has unlimited power..."
            >
            > Regards
            > Liska
            >
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
            > <ewickings@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
            > Klemp! Maybe
            > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
            > the rod
            > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
            > revolve around
            > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
            > anything other
            > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
            > >
            > > -------Original Message-------
            > >
            > > From: prometheus_973
            > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
            > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
            > God and
            > > has Unlimited Power
            > >
            > > Hello Liska and All,
            > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
            > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
            > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
            > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
            > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
            > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
            > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
            > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
            > >
            > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
            > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
            > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
            > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
            > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
            > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
            > >
            > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
            > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
            > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
            > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
            > >
            > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
            > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
            > >
            > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
            > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
            > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
            > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
            > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
            > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
            > >
            > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
            > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
            > >
            > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
            > > on Oct. 22nd?
            > >
            > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
            > >
            > > Was Klemp born in May?
            > >
            > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
            > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
            > >
            > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
            > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
            > > the lies that became Eckankar!
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > >
            > > Liska wrote:
            > > >
            > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
            > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
            > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
            > > tell you that people who speak in the third
            > > person have some kind of split personality
            > > that makes them look at themselves as a
            > > completely different person. They call it
            > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
            > > >
            > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
            > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
            > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
            > > >
            > > Regards
            > > Liška V Drubežárne
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            >
          • drubezarne
            Prometheus: Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect example of how lame and superficial HK s writings are and how often they
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 7, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Prometheus:

              Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
              example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
              they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
              to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
              claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
              consciousness in all the universes.

              A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
              have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...

              Samuel Johnson:
              "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
              Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson

              "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
              those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
              married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
              fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
              Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)

              Oscar Wilde
              "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."

              Deepak Chopra
              "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
              you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
              If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
              craves certainty."

              Groucho Marx:
              "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
              doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
              interfere."

              I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
              because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
              Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
              daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
              you think?

              Regards
              Liska

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
              > and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
              > was married twice as well and has one child.
              >
              > Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
              > expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
              > of Relationships."
              >
              > Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
              > from "The Language of Soul:"
              >
              > "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
              > is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
              > to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
              > they be divided?"
              >
              > [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
              > where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
              > one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
              > relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
              > good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
              > console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
              > and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
              > were to be chosen to replace Paul!
              >
              > HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
              > Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
              > A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
              > individual, BUT the two are as one."
              >
              > [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
              > back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
              > mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
              > Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
              > where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
              > capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
              > HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
              > The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
              > of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
              > take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
              > probably are some females standing in line just as
              > Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
              > ladies! LOL!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > drubezarne wrote:
              > >
              > > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
              > >
              > > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
              > > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
              > > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
              > >
              > > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
              > > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
              > > personality type.
              > >
              > > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
              > > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
              > > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
              > > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
              > >
              > > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
              > > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
              > >
              > > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
              > >
              > > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
              > > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
              > > master, we should focus on him.
              > >
              > > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
              > > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
              > > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
              > >
              > > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
              > > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
              > > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
              > > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
              > > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
              > >
              > > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and
              Narcissism.
              > >
              > > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
              > > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
              > > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
              > > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
              > > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
              > > all the universes.
              > >
              > > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
              > > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
              > > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
              > > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
              > > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
              > > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
              > > from it on this forum.
              > >
              > > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
              > > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
              > > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
              > > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
              > > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
              > >
              > > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
              > > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
              > > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
              > >
              > > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
              > > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
              > >
              > > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
              > >
              > > or
              > >
              > > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
              > > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
              > > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
              > > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
              > > has unlimited power..."
              > >
              > > Regards
              > > Liska
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
              > > <ewickings@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
              > > Klemp! Maybe
              > > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
              > > the rod
              > > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
              > > revolve around
              > > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
              > > anything other
              > > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
              > > >
              > > > -------Original Message-------
              > > >
              > > > From: prometheus_973
              > > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
              > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
              > > God and
              > > > has Unlimited Power
              > > >
              > > > Hello Liska and All,
              > > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
              > > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
              > > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
              > > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
              > > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
              > > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
              > > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
              > > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
              > > >
              > > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
              > > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
              > > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
              > > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
              > > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
              > > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
              > > >
              > > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
              > > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
              > > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
              > > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
              > > >
              > > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
              > > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
              > > >
              > > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
              > > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
              > > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
              > > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
              > > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
              > > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
              > > >
              > > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
              > > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
              > > >
              > > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
              > > > on Oct. 22nd?
              > > >
              > > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
              > > >
              > > > Was Klemp born in May?
              > > >
              > > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
              > > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
              > > >
              > > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
              > > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
              > > > the lies that became Eckankar!
              > > >
              > > > Prometheus
              > > >
              > > > Liska wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
              > > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
              > > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
              > > > tell you that people who speak in the third
              > > > person have some kind of split personality
              > > > that makes them look at themselves as a
              > > > completely different person. They call it
              > > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
              > > > >
              > > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
              > > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
              > > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
              > > > >
              > > > Regards
              > > > Liška V Drubežárne
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Drew van Rijk
              Apparently HK s daughter isnotonly not an eckist but has cutoff all ties and HK has no access to his grandchild. ... From: drubezarne
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 7, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Apparently HK's daughter isnotonly not an eckist but has cutoff all ties and HK
                has no access to his grandchild.

                --- On Thu, 8/7/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
                From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: All Three Mahantas Had Relationship Problems!
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Received: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 4:56 PM

                Prometheus:

                Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
                example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
                they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
                to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
                claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
                consciousness in all the universes.

                A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
                have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...

                Samuel Johnson:
                "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
                Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson

                "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
                those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
                married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
                fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
                Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)

                Oscar Wilde
                "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."

                Deepak Chopra
                "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
                you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
                If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
                craves certainty."

                Groucho Marx:
                "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
                doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
                interfere."

                I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
                because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
                Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
                daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
                you think?

                Regards
                Liska

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_ 973"
                <prometheus_ 973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                > It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
                > and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
                > was married twice as well and has one child.
                >
                > Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
                > expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
                > of Relationships. "
                >
                > Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
                > from "The Language of Soul:"
                >
                > "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
                > is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
                > to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
                > they be divided?"
                >
                > [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
                > where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
                > one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
                > relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
                > good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
                > console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
                > and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
                > were to be chosen to replace Paul!
                >
                > HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
                > Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
                > A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
                > individual, BUT the two are as one."
                >
                > [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
                > back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
                > mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
                > Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
                > where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
                > capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
                > HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
                > The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
                > of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
                > take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
                > probably are some females standing in line just as
                > Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
                > ladies! LOL!
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > drubezarne wrote:
                > >
                > > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
                > >
                > > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
                > > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
                > > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
                > >
                > > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
                > > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
                > > personality type.
                > >
                > > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
                > > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
                > > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
                > > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
                > >
                > > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
                > > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
                > >
                > > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
                > >
                > > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
                > > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
                > > master, we should focus on him.
                > >
                > > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
                > > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
                > > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
                > >
                > > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
                > > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
                > > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
                > > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
                > > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
                > >
                > > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and
                Narcissism.
                > >
                > > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
                > > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
                > > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
                > > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
                > > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
                > > all the universes.
                > >
                > > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
                > > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
                > > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
                > > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
                > > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
                > > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
                > > from it on this forum.
                > >
                > > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
                > > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
                > > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
                > > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
                > > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
                > >
                > > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
                > > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
                > > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
                > >
                > > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
                > > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
                > >
                > > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
                > >
                > > or
                > >
                > > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
                > > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
                > > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
                > > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
                > > has unlimited power..."
                > >
                > > Regards
                > > Liska
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "Elizabeth"
                > > <ewickings@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
                > > Klemp! Maybe
                > > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
                > > the rod
                > > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
                > > revolve around
                > > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
                > > anything other
                > > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
                > > >
                > > > -------Original Message----- --
                > > >
                > > > From: prometheus_973
                > > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
                > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
                > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
                > > God and
                > > > has Unlimited Power
                > > >
                > > > Hello Liska and All,
                > > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
                > > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
                > > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
                > > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
                > > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
                > > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
                > > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
                > > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
                > > >
                > > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
                > > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
                > > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
                > > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
                > > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
                > > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
                > > >
                > > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
                > > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
                > > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
                > > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
                > > >
                > > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
                > > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
                > > >
                > > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
                > > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
                > > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
                > > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
                > > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
                > > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
                > > >
                > > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
                > > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
                > > >
                > > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
                > > > on Oct. 22nd?
                > > >
                > > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
                > > >
                > > > Was Klemp born in May?
                > > >
                > > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
                > > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
                > > >
                > > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
                > > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
                > > > the lies that became Eckankar!
                > > >
                > > > Prometheus
                > > >
                > > > Liska wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
                > > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
                > > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
                > > > tell you that people who speak in the third
                > > > person have some kind of split personality
                > > > that makes them look at themselves as a
                > > > completely different person. They call it
                > > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
                > > > >
                > > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
                > > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
                > > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
                > > > >
                > > > Regards
                > > > Liška V Drubežárne
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > >
                >



                Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger
              • drubezarne
                Hi Mish, Drew, Liz, and all: I didn t realize Phil Morimitsu s books are no longer printed. I heard from a former H.I. who used to live in Minneapolis that a
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 8, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Mish, Drew, Liz, and all:

                  I didn't realize Phil Morimitsu's books are no longer printed. I heard
                  from a former H.I. who used to live in Minneapolis that a while back
                  Phil wrote a book about Rebazar. In this book, he basically said he
                  (Phil) was the next Living Eck Master. Of course, the book was never
                  published and now we know why. Phil was sent to Asia (exile?) to
                  spread the word of Eck.

                  He still travels to seminars giving talks. Many eckists look up to and
                  idolize Phil. I've seen it first-hand. For a path that advocates that
                  all Souls are equal, it's very puzzling that there is so much
                  glorification of personalities and of course the worship and devotion
                  to HK. Isn't this idolatry? When we see so much adoration given to
                  mythical Eck Masters, HK, and certain H.I.'s, isn't this enough of a
                  clue that there's something wrong here. Wouldn't you think a true path
                  to God only asks that we give our love and devotion exclusively to God?

                  I consider Harold Klemp a usurper of God. He has placed himself as an
                  intermediary between his followers and God. He constantly writes about
                  himself (in the third person) as God on earth and says we should give
                  our love and devotion to him - not God, but to him. It's a sad state
                  of affairs, when I see these brainwashed eckists proclaiming their
                  love for Harold Klemp at seminars and Satsang classes. They don't
                  think they are worshiping the personality because they say they love
                  the Mahanta, but according to Klemp, he says he is the Mahanta. So,
                  whom are they really worshipping?

                  It's ironic that James Davis, author of the Rosetta Stone of God,
                  renounced his own book and left Eckankar, but Eckankar continues to
                  print his book.

                  Drew, where did you hear about HK's daughter cutting off all ties with
                  him? I'm curious to learn more about this. It reminds me of Gail
                  Twitchell cutting off ties with Eckankar.

                  Regards
                  Liska


                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Drew van Rijk
                  <drewvanr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Apparently HK's daughter isnotonly not an eckist but has cutoff all
                  ties and HK
                  > has no access to his grandchild.
                  >
                  > --- On Thu, 8/7/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                  > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: All Three Mahantas Had
                  Relationship Problems!
                  > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  > Received: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 4:56 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Prometheus:
                  >
                  > Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
                  > example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
                  > they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
                  > to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
                  > claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
                  > consciousness in all the universes.
                  >
                  > A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
                  > have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...
                  >
                  > Samuel Johnson:
                  > "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
                  > Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson
                  >
                  > "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
                  > those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
                  > married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
                  > fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
                  > Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)
                  >
                  > Oscar Wilde
                  > "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."
                  >
                  > Deepak Chopra
                  > "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
                  > you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
                  > If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
                  > craves certainty."
                  >
                  > Groucho Marx:
                  > "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
                  > doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
                  > interfere."
                  >
                  > I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
                  > because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
                  > Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
                  > daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
                  > you think?
                  >
                  > Regards
                  > Liska
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_ 973"
                  > <prometheus_ 973@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello All,
                  > > It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
                  > > and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
                  > > was married twice as well and has one child.
                  > >
                  > > Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
                  > > expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
                  > > of Relationships. "
                  > >
                  > > Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
                  > > from "The Language of Soul:"
                  > >
                  > > "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
                  > > is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
                  > > to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
                  > > they be divided?"
                  > >
                  > > [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
                  > > where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
                  > > one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
                  > > relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
                  > > good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
                  > > console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
                  > > and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
                  > > were to be chosen to replace Paul!
                  > >
                  > > HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
                  > > Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
                  > > A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
                  > > individual, BUT the two are as one."
                  > >
                  > > [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
                  > > back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
                  > > mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
                  > > Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
                  > > where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
                  > > capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
                  > > HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
                  > > The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
                  > > of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
                  > > take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
                  > > probably are some females standing in line just as
                  > > Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
                  > > ladies! LOL!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > > drubezarne wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
                  > > >
                  > > > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
                  > > > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck
                  Masters
                  > > > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
                  > > >
                  > > > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose
                  view of
                  > > > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
                  > > > personality type.
                  > > >
                  > > > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
                  > > > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
                  > > > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
                  > > > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
                  > > >
                  > > > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
                  > > > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
                  > > >
                  > > > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
                  > > >
                  > > > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and
                  covered up
                  > > > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
                  > > > master, we should focus on him.
                  > > >
                  > > > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
                  > > > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of
                  empathy
                  > > > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
                  > > >
                  > > > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
                  > > > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
                  > > > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy,
                  grandiose
                  > > > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
                  > > > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
                  > > >
                  > > > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and
                  > Narcissism.
                  > > >
                  > > > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've
                  already
                  > > > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
                  > > > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
                  > > > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
                  > > > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
                  > > > all the universes.
                  > > >
                  > > > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
                  > > > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
                  > > > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
                  > > > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
                  > > > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the
                  cake. I'm
                  > > > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
                  > > > from it on this forum.
                  > > >
                  > > > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
                  > > > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
                  > > > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous
                  quotes by
                  > > > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
                  > > > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
                  > > >
                  > > > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've
                  seen
                  > > > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he
                  refers
                  > > > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
                  > > >
                  > > > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
                  > > > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
                  > > >
                  > > > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
                  > > >
                  > > > or
                  > > >
                  > > > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
                  > > > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
                  > > > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
                  > > > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on
                  earth and
                  > > > has unlimited power..."
                  > > >
                  > > > Regards
                  > > > Liska
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "Elizabeth"
                  > > > <ewickings@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
                  > > > Klemp! Maybe
                  > > > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
                  > > > the rod
                  > > > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
                  > > > revolve around
                  > > > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
                  > > > anything other
                  > > > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
                  > > > >
                  > > > > -------Original Message----- --
                  > > > >
                  > > > > From: prometheus_973
                  > > > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
                  > > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
                  > > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
                  > > > God and
                  > > > > has Unlimited Power
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hello Liska and All,
                  > > > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
                  > > > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
                  > > > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
                  > > > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
                  > > > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
                  > > > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
                  > > > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
                  > > > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
                  > > > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
                  > > > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
                  > > > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
                  > > > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
                  > > > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
                  > > > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
                  > > > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
                  > > > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
                  > > > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
                  > > > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
                  > > > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
                  > > > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
                  > > > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
                  > > > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
                  > > > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
                  > > > > on Oct. 22nd?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Was Klemp born in May?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
                  > > > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
                  > > > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
                  > > > > the lies that became Eckankar!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Prometheus
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Liska wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
                  > > > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
                  > > > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
                  > > > > tell you that people who speak in the third
                  > > > > person have some kind of split personality
                  > > > > that makes them look at themselves as a
                  > > > > completely different person. They call it
                  > > > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
                  > > > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
                  > > > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > Regards
                  > > > > Liška V Drubežárne
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________________________
                  > Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new
                  Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
                  >
                • Elizabeth
                  James Davis book is not still being printed by eckankar! Guess then why Those wonderful eck masters was published? Klemp had to be able to validate the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 8, 2008
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                    James Davis' book is not "still" being printed by eckankar!  Guess then why "Those wonderful eck masters" was published?   Klemp had to be able to validate the lineage of  and prove the masters exist since Davis did a 180 and claimed they were nothing but a fairy tale... 
                     
                    Liz
                     
                     
                    -------Original Message-------
                     
                    Date: 8/8/2008 11:51:17 AM
                    Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: All Three Mahantas Had Relationship Problems!
                     
                    It's ironic that James Davis, author of the Rosetta Stone of God,
                    renounced his own book and left Eckankar, but Eckankar continues to
                    print his book.
                     
                     
                    Regards
                    Liska
                     
                  • prometheus_973
                    Hello All, Yes, Phil is still a Co-RESA of all of Asia. Phil s books were Not reprinted because Klemp didn t want anyone except himself as LEM/Mahanta to be
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 8, 2008
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                      Hello All,
                      Yes, Phil is still a Co-RESA of all of Asia.
                      Phil's books were Not reprinted because
                      Klemp didn't want anyone except himself
                      as LEM/Mahanta to be worshipped IF anyone
                      was to be worshipped!

                      BTW-I was going through some of Klemp's
                      Wisdon Notes (I'm missing most of those from
                      the 90's for some reason) and found some
                      interesting info. Perhaps, Klemp needs to look
                      into the mirror more often and review his own
                      words and behaviours too!

                      HK: "... the Mahanta is faceless."

                      "Salt Lake City is sometimes referred to as a
                      swindler's mecca. Oddly, most of the swindles
                      are done by one member of the Mormon church
                      against another member." [Fall 1985 Wisdom Notes]

                      [ME] That's not very nice to say about the Morons
                      when Klemp also states, "Mahdis use the IMPLIED
                      STATUS of their RANK in Eckankar to gain clients
                      or participants in their business." [Fall 1985
                      Wisdom Notes]

                      Also, I thought the Mahanta or Inner Master had
                      the FACE of Klemp and was Not 'Faceless!'

                      HK: "Although the churches are empty on Sundays,
                      millions of paying 'tax Christians' SECURE THEIR
                      PLACE IN HEAVEN BY STAYING REGISTERED MEMBERS
                      AND FILLING THE CASH BOX OF THE CHURCHES.
                      THE CHURCH KNOWS THAT EVERY LOST MEMBER
                      MEANS LOST REVENUE.

                      ... The most attractive part of the ECK teachings
                      is the one-on-one relationship between them
                      and the Master. ALSO, THEY CAN REALIZE GOD
                      NOW WITHOUT A PRIEST OR CHURCH ATMOSPHERE"
                      [Fall 1983 The Wisdom Notes]

                      [ME] Doesn't Eckankar require an ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP
                      in order to 'SECURE' those INITIATIONS and their
                      'Place in Heaven' too! Doesn't this required annual
                      Eckankar membership cost money? It's Not Free!

                      Also, isn't it true that ECKANKAR has adopted the
                      same characteristics as the 'churches' Klemp is
                      putting down: ECK Worship Services; EK Clerics
                      or EK Priests; A Songbook; EK Chorus; various
                      religious ceremonies; an Outdoor Chapel; a Temple;
                      Donations; etc. BTW- Look at all of the ways ECKists
                      can DONATE their MONEY!

                      There's a whole section on Eckankar.org (members
                      only-password:translation) that is dedicated to
                      Donations! Klemp's Eckankar has been modeled
                      after the Christian Churches HK was speaking of,
                      and demeaning, 25 YEARS AGO!

                      On Another Note: Klemp has Three Grandchildren!

                      Prometheus


                      drubezarne wrote:
                      >
                      Hi Mish, Drew, Liz, and all:
                      >
                      I didn't realize Phil Morimitsu's books are no longer printed. I heard
                      from a former H.I. who used to live in Minneapolis that a while back
                      Phil wrote a book about Rebazar. In this book, he basically said he
                      (Phil) was the next Living Eck Master. Of course, the book was never
                      published and now we know why. Phil was sent to Asia (exile?) to
                      spread the word of Eck.
                      >
                      He still travels to seminars giving talks. Many eckists look up to and
                      idolize Phil. I've seen it first-hand. For a path that advocates that
                      all Souls are equal, it's very puzzling that there is so much
                      glorification of personalities and of course the worship and devotion
                      to HK. Isn't this idolatry? When we see so much adoration given to
                      mythical Eck Masters, HK, and certain H.I.'s, isn't this enough of a
                      clue that there's something wrong here. Wouldn't you think a true path
                      to God only asks that we give our love and devotion exclusively to God?
                      >
                      I consider Harold Klemp a usurper of God. He has placed himself as an
                      intermediary between his followers and God. He constantly writes about
                      himself (in the third person) as God on earth and says we should give
                      our love and devotion to him - not God, but to him. It's a sad state
                      of affairs, when I see these brainwashed eckists proclaiming their
                      love for Harold Klemp at seminars and Satsang classes. They don't
                      think they are worshiping the personality because they say they love
                      the Mahanta, but according to Klemp, he says he is the Mahanta. So,
                      whom are they really worshipping?
                      >
                      It's ironic that James Davis, author of the Rosetta Stone of God,
                      renounced his own book and left Eckankar, but Eckankar continues to
                      print his book.
                      >
                      Drew, where did you hear about HK's daughter cutting off all ties with
                      him? I'm curious to learn more about this. It reminds me of Gail
                      Twitchell cutting off ties with Eckankar.
                      >
                      Regards
                      Liska
                      >
                      >
                      Drew van Rijk wrote:
                      > >
                      Apparently HK's daughter is not only not an eckist but has cutoff all
                      ties and HK has no access to his grandchild.
                      > >
                      drubezarne@> wrote:

                      > >
                      > > Prometheus:
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
                      > > example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
                      > > they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
                      > > to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
                      > > claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
                      > > consciousness in all the universes.
                      > >
                      > > A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
                      > > have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...
                      > >
                      > > Samuel Johnson:
                      > > "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
                      > > Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson
                      > >
                      > > "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
                      > > those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
                      > > married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
                      > > fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
                      > > Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)
                      > >
                      > > Oscar Wilde
                      > > "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."
                      > >
                      > > Deepak Chopra
                      > > "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
                      > > you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
                      > > If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
                      > > craves certainty."
                      > >
                      > > Groucho Marx:
                      > > "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
                      > > doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
                      > > interfere."
                      > >
                      > > I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
                      > > because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
                      > > Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
                      > > daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
                      > > you think?
                      > >
                      > > Regards
                      > > Liska
                      > >
                      prometheus wrote:
                      > > >
                      Hello All,
                      It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
                      and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
                      was married twice as well and has one child.
                      > > >
                      Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
                      expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
                      of Relationships. "
                      > > >
                      Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
                      from "The Language of Soul:"
                      > > >
                      "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
                      is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
                      to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
                      they be divided?"
                      > > >
                      [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
                      where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
                      one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
                      relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
                      good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
                      console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
                      and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
                      were to be chosen to replace Paul!
                      > > >
                      HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
                      Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
                      A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
                      individual, BUT the two are as one."
                      > > >
                      [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
                      back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
                      mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
                      Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
                      where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
                      capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
                      HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
                      The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
                      of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
                      take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
                      probably are some females standing in line just as
                      Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
                      ladies! LOL!
                      > > >
                      Prometheus
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