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Harold Klemp says He is God and has Unlimited Power

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  • drubezarne
    Is this the sign of a megalomaniac totally obsessed with his own power and importance? The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God)
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 5, 2008
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      Is this the sign of a megalomaniac totally obsessed with his own power
      and importance?

      "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God)
      on earth and has unlimited power to carry out the will of the Supreme
      One in all ITS countless worlds. This is a vain boast to the ears of
      the profane, nevertheless the ECK initiate learns the truth for
      himself during the daily spiritual exercises.' The Eck Satsang
      Discourses, Fourth Series, Page 15-16, Harold Klemp 1996.

      "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the embodiment
      of the SUGMAD(God), as the ECK, and therefore represents the entire
      ocean of love and compassion. This strikes a reactive note in anyone
      who operates under the strictures of the human level of perception."
      The Eck Satsang Discourses, Fourth Series, Page 20, Harold Klemp 1996

      "He (Klemp) is the ideal and the vanguard of the human race."
      The Eck Satsang Discourses, Fourth Series, Page 24, Harold Klemp 1996

      "First to know is that the Mahanta (Harold Klemp) conducts his affairs
      from this high state of awareness during all of a twenty-four hour
      day." The Eck Satsang Discourses, Fourth Series, Page 19, Harold Klemp
      1996

      One thing I have learned and that is never believe anybody who speaks
      in absolutes.

      Regards
      Liška V Drubežárne
    • drubezarne
      Note how in the previous post with Harold Klemp s quotes, he always talks about himself in the third person. Some psychologists will tell you that people who
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 5, 2008
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        Note how in the previous post with Harold Klemp's quotes, he always
        talks about himself in the third person. Some psychologists will tell
        you that people who speak in the third person have some kind of split
        personality that makes them look at themselves as a completely
        different person. They call it Dissociative Itentity Disorder.

        Those of you who are still sitting on the fence, isn't it time to wake
        up and see that the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?

        Regards
        Liška V Drubežárne
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Liska and All, I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another reason HK uses third person is to appear humble. This way Klemp can give kudos to the Mahanta
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 6, 2008
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          Hello Liska and All,
          I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
          reason HK uses third person is to appear
          "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
          to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
          seem like detached comments. When Klemp
          uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
          he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
          it's because he is speaking in "third" person!

          BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
          Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
          movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
          Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
          Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
          very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!

          ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
          22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
          date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
          OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?

          The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
          Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]

          Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
          POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
          Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
          After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
          earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
          The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!

          Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
          to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!

          But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
          on Oct. 22nd?

          What month and day was Klemp born on?

          Was Klemp born in May?

          PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
          Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!

          So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
          Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
          the lies that became Eckankar!

          Prometheus

          Liska wrote:
          >
          Note how in the previous post with Harold
          Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
          in the third person. Some psychologists will
          tell you that people who speak in the third
          person have some kind of split personality
          that makes them look at themselves as a
          completely different person. They call it
          Dissociative Identity Disorder.
          >
          Those of you who are still sitting on the
          fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
          the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
          >
          Regards
          Liška V Drubežárne
          >
        • Elizabeth
          Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or Klemp! Maybe these two LEM s knew the truth about PT s eck new year, passing of the rod all
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 6, 2008
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            Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or Klemp!  Maybe these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of the rod all along....   Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events revolve around PT's alleged birth date.  Gross and Klemp can't come up with anything other than keeping their birth date a secret.....      
             
            -------Original Message-------
             
            Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is God and has Unlimited Power
             
            Hello Liska and All,
            I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
            reason HK uses third person is to appear
            "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
            to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
            seem like detached comments. When Klemp
            uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
            he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
            it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
             
            BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
            Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
            movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
            Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
            Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
            very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
             
            ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
            22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also,  the
            date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
            OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
             
            The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
            Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
             
            Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
            POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
            Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
            After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
            earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
            The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
             
            Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
            to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
             
            But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
            on Oct. 22nd?
             
            What month and day was Klemp born on?
             
            Was Klemp born in May?
             
            PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
            Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
             
            So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
            Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
            the lies that became Eckankar!
             
            Prometheus
             
            Liska wrote:
            >
            Note how in the previous post with Harold
            Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
            in the third person. Some psychologists will
            tell you that people who speak in the third
            person have some kind of split personality
            that makes them look at themselves as a
            completely different person. They call it
            Dissociative Identity Disorder.
            >
            Those of you who are still sitting on the
            fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
            the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
            >
            Regards
            Liška V Drubežárne
            >
             
             
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          • drubezarne
            Prometheus, Liz, and all: The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I m beginning to think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 6, 2008
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              Prometheus, Liz, and all:

              The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
              think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
              had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.

              Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
              one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
              personality type.

              All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
              greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
              God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
              outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).

              Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
              overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.

              Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.

              Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
              the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
              master, we should focus on him.

              Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
              itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
              towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.

              New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
              Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
              personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
              fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
              depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"

              Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and Narcissism.

              1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
              seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
              Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
              examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
              as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
              all the universes.

              2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
              plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
              Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
              Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
              paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
              sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
              from it on this forum.

              He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
              above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
              the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
              Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
              followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.

              3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
              evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
              to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.

              Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
              other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.

              1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.

              or

              2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
              your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
              become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
              the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
              has unlimited power..."

              Regards
              Liska


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
              <ewickings@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
              Klemp! Maybe
              > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
              the rod
              > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
              revolve around
              > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
              anything other
              > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
              >
              > -------Original Message-------
              >
              > From: prometheus_973
              > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
              God and
              > has Unlimited Power
              >
              > Hello Liska and All,
              > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
              > reason HK uses third person is to appear
              > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
              > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
              > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
              > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
              > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
              > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
              >
              > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
              > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
              > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
              > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
              > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
              > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
              >
              > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
              > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
              > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
              > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
              >
              > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
              > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
              >
              > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
              > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
              > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
              > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
              > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
              > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
              >
              > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
              > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
              >
              > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
              > on Oct. 22nd?
              >
              > What month and day was Klemp born on?
              >
              > Was Klemp born in May?
              >
              > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
              > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
              >
              > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
              > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
              > the lies that became Eckankar!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > Liska wrote:
              > >
              > Note how in the previous post with Harold
              > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
              > in the third person. Some psychologists will
              > tell you that people who speak in the third
              > person have some kind of split personality
              > that makes them look at themselves as a
              > completely different person. They call it
              > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
              > >
              > Those of you who are still sitting on the
              > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
              > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
              > >
              > Regards
              > Liška V Drubežárne
              > >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello All, It s interesting that Twitchell was married twice and Gross was married how many times? Klemp was married twice as well and has one child. Yet,
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 6, 2008
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                Hello All,
                It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
                and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
                was married twice as well and has one child.

                Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
                expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
                of Relationships."

                Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
                from "The Language of Soul:"

                "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
                is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
                to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
                they be divided?"

                [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
                where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
                one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
                relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
                good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
                console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
                and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
                were to be chosen to replace Paul!

                HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
                Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
                A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
                individual, BUT the two are as one."

                [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
                back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
                mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
                Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
                where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
                capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
                HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
                The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
                of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
                take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
                probably are some females standing in line just as
                Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
                ladies! LOL!

                Prometheus

                drubezarne wrote:
                >
                > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
                >
                > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
                > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
                > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
                >
                > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
                > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
                > personality type.
                >
                > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
                > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
                > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
                > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
                >
                > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
                > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
                >
                > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
                >
                > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
                > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
                > master, we should focus on him.
                >
                > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
                > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
                > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
                >
                > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
                > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
                > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
                > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
                > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
                >
                > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and Narcissism.
                >
                > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
                > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
                > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
                > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
                > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
                > all the universes.
                >
                > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
                > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
                > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
                > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
                > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
                > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
                > from it on this forum.
                >
                > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
                > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
                > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
                > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
                > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
                >
                > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
                > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
                > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
                >
                > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
                > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
                >
                > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
                >
                > or
                >
                > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
                > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
                > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
                > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
                > has unlimited power..."
                >
                > Regards
                > Liska
                >
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
                > <ewickings@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
                > Klemp! Maybe
                > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
                > the rod
                > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
                > revolve around
                > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
                > anything other
                > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
                > >
                > > -------Original Message-------
                > >
                > > From: prometheus_973
                > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
                > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
                > God and
                > > has Unlimited Power
                > >
                > > Hello Liska and All,
                > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
                > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
                > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
                > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
                > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
                > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
                > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
                > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
                > >
                > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
                > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
                > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
                > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
                > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
                > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
                > >
                > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
                > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
                > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
                > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
                > >
                > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
                > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
                > >
                > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
                > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
                > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
                > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
                > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
                > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
                > >
                > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
                > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
                > >
                > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
                > > on Oct. 22nd?
                > >
                > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
                > >
                > > Was Klemp born in May?
                > >
                > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
                > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
                > >
                > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
                > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
                > > the lies that became Eckankar!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > > Liska wrote:
                > > >
                > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
                > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
                > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
                > > tell you that people who speak in the third
                > > person have some kind of split personality
                > > that makes them look at themselves as a
                > > completely different person. They call it
                > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
                > > >
                > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
                > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
                > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
                > > >
                > > Regards
                > > Liška V Drubežárne
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                >
              • drubezarne
                Prometheus: Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect example of how lame and superficial HK s writings are and how often they
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 7, 2008
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                  Prometheus:

                  Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
                  example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
                  they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
                  to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
                  claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
                  consciousness in all the universes.

                  A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
                  have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...

                  Samuel Johnson:
                  "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
                  Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson

                  "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
                  those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
                  married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
                  fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
                  Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)

                  Oscar Wilde
                  "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."

                  Deepak Chopra
                  "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
                  you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
                  If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
                  craves certainty."

                  Groucho Marx:
                  "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
                  doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
                  interfere."

                  I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
                  because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
                  Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
                  daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
                  you think?

                  Regards
                  Liska

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                  <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello All,
                  > It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
                  > and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
                  > was married twice as well and has one child.
                  >
                  > Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
                  > expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
                  > of Relationships."
                  >
                  > Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
                  > from "The Language of Soul:"
                  >
                  > "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
                  > is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
                  > to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
                  > they be divided?"
                  >
                  > [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
                  > where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
                  > one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
                  > relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
                  > good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
                  > console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
                  > and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
                  > were to be chosen to replace Paul!
                  >
                  > HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
                  > Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
                  > A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
                  > individual, BUT the two are as one."
                  >
                  > [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
                  > back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
                  > mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
                  > Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
                  > where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
                  > capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
                  > HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
                  > The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
                  > of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
                  > take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
                  > probably are some females standing in line just as
                  > Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
                  > ladies! LOL!
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > drubezarne wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
                  > >
                  > > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
                  > > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
                  > > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
                  > >
                  > > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
                  > > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
                  > > personality type.
                  > >
                  > > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
                  > > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
                  > > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
                  > > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
                  > >
                  > > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
                  > > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
                  > >
                  > > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
                  > >
                  > > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
                  > > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
                  > > master, we should focus on him.
                  > >
                  > > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
                  > > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
                  > > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
                  > >
                  > > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
                  > > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
                  > > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
                  > > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
                  > > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
                  > >
                  > > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and
                  Narcissism.
                  > >
                  > > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
                  > > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
                  > > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
                  > > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
                  > > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
                  > > all the universes.
                  > >
                  > > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
                  > > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
                  > > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
                  > > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
                  > > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
                  > > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
                  > > from it on this forum.
                  > >
                  > > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
                  > > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
                  > > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
                  > > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
                  > > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
                  > >
                  > > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
                  > > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
                  > > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
                  > >
                  > > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
                  > > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
                  > >
                  > > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
                  > >
                  > > or
                  > >
                  > > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
                  > > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
                  > > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
                  > > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
                  > > has unlimited power..."
                  > >
                  > > Regards
                  > > Liska
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
                  > > <ewickings@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
                  > > Klemp! Maybe
                  > > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
                  > > the rod
                  > > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
                  > > revolve around
                  > > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
                  > > anything other
                  > > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
                  > > >
                  > > > -------Original Message-------
                  > > >
                  > > > From: prometheus_973
                  > > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
                  > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
                  > > God and
                  > > > has Unlimited Power
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello Liska and All,
                  > > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
                  > > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
                  > > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
                  > > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
                  > > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
                  > > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
                  > > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
                  > > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
                  > > >
                  > > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
                  > > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
                  > > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
                  > > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
                  > > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
                  > > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
                  > > >
                  > > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
                  > > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
                  > > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
                  > > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
                  > > >
                  > > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
                  > > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
                  > > >
                  > > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
                  > > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
                  > > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
                  > > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
                  > > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
                  > > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
                  > > >
                  > > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
                  > > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
                  > > >
                  > > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
                  > > > on Oct. 22nd?
                  > > >
                  > > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
                  > > >
                  > > > Was Klemp born in May?
                  > > >
                  > > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
                  > > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
                  > > >
                  > > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
                  > > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
                  > > > the lies that became Eckankar!
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  > > >
                  > > > Liska wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
                  > > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
                  > > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
                  > > > tell you that people who speak in the third
                  > > > person have some kind of split personality
                  > > > that makes them look at themselves as a
                  > > > completely different person. They call it
                  > > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
                  > > > >
                  > > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
                  > > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
                  > > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
                  > > > >
                  > > > Regards
                  > > > Liška V Drubežárne
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Drew van Rijk
                  Apparently HK s daughter isnotonly not an eckist but has cutoff all ties and HK has no access to his grandchild. ... From: drubezarne
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 7, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Apparently HK's daughter isnotonly not an eckist but has cutoff all ties and HK
                    has no access to his grandchild.

                    --- On Thu, 8/7/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
                    From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                    Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: All Three Mahantas Had Relationship Problems!
                    To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                    Received: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 4:56 PM

                    Prometheus:

                    Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
                    example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
                    they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
                    to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
                    claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
                    consciousness in all the universes.

                    A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
                    have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...

                    Samuel Johnson:
                    "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
                    Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson

                    "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
                    those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
                    married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
                    fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
                    Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)

                    Oscar Wilde
                    "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."

                    Deepak Chopra
                    "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
                    you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
                    If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
                    craves certainty."

                    Groucho Marx:
                    "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
                    doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
                    interfere."

                    I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
                    because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
                    Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
                    daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
                    you think?

                    Regards
                    Liska

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_ 973"
                    <prometheus_ 973@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello All,
                    > It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
                    > and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
                    > was married twice as well and has one child.
                    >
                    > Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
                    > expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
                    > of Relationships. "
                    >
                    > Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
                    > from "The Language of Soul:"
                    >
                    > "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
                    > is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
                    > to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
                    > they be divided?"
                    >
                    > [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
                    > where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
                    > one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
                    > relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
                    > good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
                    > console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
                    > and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
                    > were to be chosen to replace Paul!
                    >
                    > HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
                    > Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
                    > A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
                    > individual, BUT the two are as one."
                    >
                    > [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
                    > back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
                    > mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
                    > Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
                    > where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
                    > capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
                    > HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
                    > The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
                    > of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
                    > take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
                    > probably are some females standing in line just as
                    > Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
                    > ladies! LOL!
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    > drubezarne wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
                    > >
                    > > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
                    > > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck Masters
                    > > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
                    > >
                    > > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of
                    > > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
                    > > personality type.
                    > >
                    > > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
                    > > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
                    > > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
                    > > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
                    > >
                    > > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
                    > > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
                    > >
                    > > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
                    > >
                    > > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and covered up
                    > > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
                    > > master, we should focus on him.
                    > >
                    > > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
                    > > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of empathy
                    > > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
                    > >
                    > > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
                    > > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
                    > > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy, grandiose
                    > > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
                    > > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
                    > >
                    > > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and
                    Narcissism.
                    > >
                    > > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've already
                    > > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
                    > > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
                    > > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
                    > > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
                    > > all the universes.
                    > >
                    > > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
                    > > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
                    > > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
                    > > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
                    > > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the cake. I'm
                    > > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
                    > > from it on this forum.
                    > >
                    > > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
                    > > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
                    > > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous quotes by
                    > > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
                    > > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
                    > >
                    > > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've seen
                    > > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he refers
                    > > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
                    > >
                    > > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
                    > > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
                    > >
                    > > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
                    > >
                    > > or
                    > >
                    > > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
                    > > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
                    > > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
                    > > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on earth and
                    > > has unlimited power..."
                    > >
                    > > Regards
                    > > Liska
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "Elizabeth"
                    > > <ewickings@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
                    > > Klemp! Maybe
                    > > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
                    > > the rod
                    > > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
                    > > revolve around
                    > > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
                    > > anything other
                    > > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
                    > > >
                    > > > -------Original Message----- --
                    > > >
                    > > > From: prometheus_973
                    > > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
                    > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
                    > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
                    > > God and
                    > > > has Unlimited Power
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello Liska and All,
                    > > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
                    > > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
                    > > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
                    > > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
                    > > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
                    > > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
                    > > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
                    > > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
                    > > >
                    > > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
                    > > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
                    > > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
                    > > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
                    > > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
                    > > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
                    > > >
                    > > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
                    > > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
                    > > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
                    > > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
                    > > >
                    > > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
                    > > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
                    > > >
                    > > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
                    > > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
                    > > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
                    > > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
                    > > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
                    > > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
                    > > >
                    > > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
                    > > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
                    > > >
                    > > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
                    > > > on Oct. 22nd?
                    > > >
                    > > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
                    > > >
                    > > > Was Klemp born in May?
                    > > >
                    > > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
                    > > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
                    > > >
                    > > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
                    > > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
                    > > > the lies that became Eckankar!
                    > > >
                    > > > Prometheus
                    > > >
                    > > > Liska wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
                    > > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
                    > > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
                    > > > tell you that people who speak in the third
                    > > > person have some kind of split personality
                    > > > that makes them look at themselves as a
                    > > > completely different person. They call it
                    > > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
                    > > > >
                    > > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
                    > > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
                    > > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
                    > > > >
                    > > > Regards
                    > > > Liška V Drubežárne
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >



                    Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger
                  • drubezarne
                    Hi Mish, Drew, Liz, and all: I didn t realize Phil Morimitsu s books are no longer printed. I heard from a former H.I. who used to live in Minneapolis that a
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 8, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Mish, Drew, Liz, and all:

                      I didn't realize Phil Morimitsu's books are no longer printed. I heard
                      from a former H.I. who used to live in Minneapolis that a while back
                      Phil wrote a book about Rebazar. In this book, he basically said he
                      (Phil) was the next Living Eck Master. Of course, the book was never
                      published and now we know why. Phil was sent to Asia (exile?) to
                      spread the word of Eck.

                      He still travels to seminars giving talks. Many eckists look up to and
                      idolize Phil. I've seen it first-hand. For a path that advocates that
                      all Souls are equal, it's very puzzling that there is so much
                      glorification of personalities and of course the worship and devotion
                      to HK. Isn't this idolatry? When we see so much adoration given to
                      mythical Eck Masters, HK, and certain H.I.'s, isn't this enough of a
                      clue that there's something wrong here. Wouldn't you think a true path
                      to God only asks that we give our love and devotion exclusively to God?

                      I consider Harold Klemp a usurper of God. He has placed himself as an
                      intermediary between his followers and God. He constantly writes about
                      himself (in the third person) as God on earth and says we should give
                      our love and devotion to him - not God, but to him. It's a sad state
                      of affairs, when I see these brainwashed eckists proclaiming their
                      love for Harold Klemp at seminars and Satsang classes. They don't
                      think they are worshiping the personality because they say they love
                      the Mahanta, but according to Klemp, he says he is the Mahanta. So,
                      whom are they really worshipping?

                      It's ironic that James Davis, author of the Rosetta Stone of God,
                      renounced his own book and left Eckankar, but Eckankar continues to
                      print his book.

                      Drew, where did you hear about HK's daughter cutting off all ties with
                      him? I'm curious to learn more about this. It reminds me of Gail
                      Twitchell cutting off ties with Eckankar.

                      Regards
                      Liska


                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Drew van Rijk
                      <drewvanr@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Apparently HK's daughter isnotonly not an eckist but has cutoff all
                      ties and HK
                      > has no access to his grandchild.
                      >
                      > --- On Thu, 8/7/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
                      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: All Three Mahantas Had
                      Relationship Problems!
                      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                      > Received: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 4:56 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Prometheus:
                      >
                      > Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
                      > example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
                      > they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
                      > to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
                      > claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
                      > consciousness in all the universes.
                      >
                      > A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
                      > have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...
                      >
                      > Samuel Johnson:
                      > "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
                      > Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson
                      >
                      > "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
                      > those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
                      > married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
                      > fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
                      > Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)
                      >
                      > Oscar Wilde
                      > "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."
                      >
                      > Deepak Chopra
                      > "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
                      > you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
                      > If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
                      > craves certainty."
                      >
                      > Groucho Marx:
                      > "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
                      > doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
                      > interfere."
                      >
                      > I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
                      > because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
                      > Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
                      > daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
                      > you think?
                      >
                      > Regards
                      > Liska
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_ 973"
                      > <prometheus_ 973@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello All,
                      > > It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
                      > > and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
                      > > was married twice as well and has one child.
                      > >
                      > > Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
                      > > expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
                      > > of Relationships. "
                      > >
                      > > Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
                      > > from "The Language of Soul:"
                      > >
                      > > "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
                      > > is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
                      > > to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
                      > > they be divided?"
                      > >
                      > > [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
                      > > where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
                      > > one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
                      > > relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
                      > > good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
                      > > console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
                      > > and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
                      > > were to be chosen to replace Paul!
                      > >
                      > > HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
                      > > Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
                      > > A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
                      > > individual, BUT the two are as one."
                      > >
                      > > [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
                      > > back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
                      > > mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
                      > > Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
                      > > where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
                      > > capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
                      > > HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
                      > > The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
                      > > of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
                      > > take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
                      > > probably are some females standing in line just as
                      > > Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
                      > > ladies! LOL!
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > > drubezarne wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus, Liz, and all:
                      > > >
                      > > > The more I dig into this Eckankar mess, the more I'm beginning to
                      > > > think that all three self-proclaimed Mahantas, The Living Eck
                      Masters
                      > > > had severe personality disorders like Narcissism.
                      > > >
                      > > > Narcissism is defined as extreme selfishness, with a grandiose
                      view of
                      > > > one's own talents and a craving for admiration, as characterizing a
                      > > > personality type.
                      > > >
                      > > > All three declared they were the highest consciousness on earth,
                      > > > greater than any other spiritual leader and in fact stated they were
                      > > > God on earth. Their actions and words totally contradicted their
                      > > > outrageous claims to fame (see the earlier forum posts).
                      > > >
                      > > > Paul Twitchell was a notorious liar and plagiarist. The evidence is
                      > > > overwhelming. The research is all over the internet.
                      > > >
                      > > > Darwin Gross was a thief, substance abuser, and a womanizer.
                      > > >
                      > > > Harold Klemp was a former mental patient who also lied and
                      covered up
                      > > > the history of Eckankar. Since he's the current self-proclaimed
                      > > > master, we should focus on him.
                      > > >
                      > > > Pathological narcissism in adolescence or adulthood which manifests
                      > > > itself in infatuation and obsession with oneself and a lack of
                      empathy
                      > > > towards others is believed to be a cause of a God complex.
                      > > >
                      > > > New York Times writer Stephen Sherrill explains in his article
                      > > > Acquired Situational Narcissism that "Classical Narcissism, a
                      > > > personality disorder whose symptoms include lack of empathy,
                      grandiose
                      > > > fantasies, excessive need for approval, rage, social isolation and
                      > > > depression, has been well mapped by the psychoanalytical community…"
                      > > >
                      > > > Here are some symptoms of Dissociative Identity Disorder and
                      > Narcissism.
                      > > >
                      > > > 1. Megalomania - Delusions of grandeur - a GOD COMPLEX (we've
                      already
                      > > > seen this in the few quotes by Klemp in which he claimed to be God.
                      > > > Search through the Eckankar writings and you will see numerous other
                      > > > examples in which Harold Klemp refers to himself in the third person
                      > > > as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master and what this means throughout
                      > > > all the universes.
                      > > >
                      > > > 2. Paranoia - they're out to get me - believes others are spying and
                      > > > plotting. See the previous post of Klemp's article on the Fox in the
                      > > > Henhouse. Also read Chapter 2 of The ECK Satsang Discourses, 4th
                      > > > Series, titled "Obstacles to the Mahanta's Mission". Talk about the
                      > > > paranoid ravings of a delusional person - this one takes the
                      cake. I'm
                      > > > sure if people make requests to see it, some of us can put excerpts
                      > > > from it on this forum.
                      > > >
                      > > > He regulates his sense of self worth by rigidly insisting that he is
                      > > > above the madding crowd while deriving his Narcissistic Supply from
                      > > > the very people he holds in deep contempt. We have numerous
                      quotes by
                      > > > Klemp in which he shows his contempt for his followers, former
                      > > > followers, other religions, leaders, and their followers.
                      > > >
                      > > > 3. Often they refer to themselves as "we," "he," or "she." We've
                      seen
                      > > > evidence of this scattered throughout his writings whenever he
                      refers
                      > > > to himself as the Mahanta, The Living ECK Master.
                      > > >
                      > > > Of course, I could be wrong about all this and if so, we have two
                      > > > other possibilities for Harold Klemp's behavior.
                      > > >
                      > > > 1. It's all a big pretense to swindle his followers.
                      > > >
                      > > > or
                      > > >
                      > > > 2. If you choose to fall for the fantasy and are willing to give up
                      > > > your reasoning and thus your ability to think for yourself, then you
                      > > > become delusional enough to believe him when he says, "The Mahanta,
                      > > > the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the SUGMAD (God) on
                      earth and
                      > > > has unlimited power..."
                      > > >
                      > > > Regards
                      > > > Liska
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "Elizabeth"
                      > > > <ewickings@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Ever notice how the birth date was never revealed for Gross or
                      > > > Klemp! Maybe
                      > > > > these two LEM's knew the truth about PT's eck new year, passing of
                      > > > the rod
                      > > > > all along.... Ironic, or coincidence that all of the events
                      > > > revolve around
                      > > > > PT's alleged birth date. Gross and Klemp can't come up with
                      > > > anything other
                      > > > > than keeping their birth date a secret.....
                      > > > >
                      > > > > -------Original Message----- --
                      > > > >
                      > > > > From: prometheus_973
                      > > > > Date: 8/6/2008 11:59:45 AM
                      > > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
                      > > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: Harold Klemp says He is
                      > > > God and
                      > > > > has Unlimited Power
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hello Liska and All,
                      > > > > I agree that Klemp is a sicko! Another
                      > > > > reason HK uses third person is to appear
                      > > > > "humble." This way Klemp can give kudos
                      > > > > to the Mahanta (himself) and make it all
                      > > > > seem like detached comments. When Klemp
                      > > > > uses the pronoun "we" it's Not because
                      > > > > he is relating to other imperfect ECKists...
                      > > > > it's because he is speaking in "third" person!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > BTW- Have you noticed that Klemp's "Official
                      > > > > Photo" isn't aging! Kind of reminds me of that
                      > > > > movie about Dorian Grey, except in real life
                      > > > > Klemp shows his age! The photo on The
                      > > > > Wisdom Notes page of the Mystic World is
                      > > > > very different from Klemp's EK Seminar pics!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ONE MORE THING- Which came first... the Oct.
                      > > > > 22 ECK Spiritual New Year which is, also, the
                      > > > > date for the Passing of the Rod of ECK Power
                      > > > > OR Paul Twitchell's Birthday?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The ECK Spiritual New Year is Oct. 22 and was
                      > > > > Twitchell's Birth Month and Day. [EK Lexicon, pg.61]
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Were these date, for the Passing of the ROD of ECK
                      > > > > POWER and the ECK Spiritual New Year, created by
                      > > > > Twitchell because it was his Birthday? It seems so!
                      > > > > After all, Twitchell also created the Mahanta title no
                      > > > > earlier than the Jan. 1, 1969 issue of the monthly
                      > > > > The Wisdom Notes. Doug Marman will verify this!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Or, did SUGMAD, or KAL, allow the 1st Mahanta
                      > > > > to be born on this infamous date? Nah! That's B.S.!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > But if so, WHY then, wasn't Klemp, also, born
                      > > > > on Oct. 22nd?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > What month and day was Klemp born on?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Was Klemp born in May?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > PT created the EK Spiritual New Year and the
                      > > > > Passing of the Rod and the Mahanta title!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > So, which came first? The Chicken (PT) or the
                      > > > > Egg (Rod date)? Twitchell came first! Then came
                      > > > > the lies that became Eckankar!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Prometheus
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Liska wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > Note how in the previous post with Harold
                      > > > > Klemp's quotes, he always talks about himself
                      > > > > in the third person. Some psychologists will
                      > > > > tell you that people who speak in the third
                      > > > > person have some kind of split personality
                      > > > > that makes them look at themselves as a
                      > > > > completely different person. They call it
                      > > > > Dissociative Identity Disorder.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > Those of you who are still sitting on the
                      > > > > fence, isn't it time to wake up and see that
                      > > > > the emperor isn't wearing any clothes?
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > Regards
                      > > > > Liška V Drubežárne
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________________________
                      > Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new
                      Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
                      >
                    • Elizabeth
                      James Davis book is not still being printed by eckankar! Guess then why Those wonderful eck masters was published? Klemp had to be able to validate the
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 8, 2008
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                        James Davis' book is not "still" being printed by eckankar!  Guess then why "Those wonderful eck masters" was published?   Klemp had to be able to validate the lineage of  and prove the masters exist since Davis did a 180 and claimed they were nothing but a fairy tale... 
                         
                        Liz
                         
                         
                        -------Original Message-------
                         
                        Date: 8/8/2008 11:51:17 AM
                        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: All Three Mahantas Had Relationship Problems!
                         
                        It's ironic that James Davis, author of the Rosetta Stone of God,
                        renounced his own book and left Eckankar, but Eckankar continues to
                        print his book.
                         
                         
                        Regards
                        Liska
                         
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hello All, Yes, Phil is still a Co-RESA of all of Asia. Phil s books were Not reprinted because Klemp didn t want anyone except himself as LEM/Mahanta to be
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 8, 2008
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                          Hello All,
                          Yes, Phil is still a Co-RESA of all of Asia.
                          Phil's books were Not reprinted because
                          Klemp didn't want anyone except himself
                          as LEM/Mahanta to be worshipped IF anyone
                          was to be worshipped!

                          BTW-I was going through some of Klemp's
                          Wisdon Notes (I'm missing most of those from
                          the 90's for some reason) and found some
                          interesting info. Perhaps, Klemp needs to look
                          into the mirror more often and review his own
                          words and behaviours too!

                          HK: "... the Mahanta is faceless."

                          "Salt Lake City is sometimes referred to as a
                          swindler's mecca. Oddly, most of the swindles
                          are done by one member of the Mormon church
                          against another member." [Fall 1985 Wisdom Notes]

                          [ME] That's not very nice to say about the Morons
                          when Klemp also states, "Mahdis use the IMPLIED
                          STATUS of their RANK in Eckankar to gain clients
                          or participants in their business." [Fall 1985
                          Wisdom Notes]

                          Also, I thought the Mahanta or Inner Master had
                          the FACE of Klemp and was Not 'Faceless!'

                          HK: "Although the churches are empty on Sundays,
                          millions of paying 'tax Christians' SECURE THEIR
                          PLACE IN HEAVEN BY STAYING REGISTERED MEMBERS
                          AND FILLING THE CASH BOX OF THE CHURCHES.
                          THE CHURCH KNOWS THAT EVERY LOST MEMBER
                          MEANS LOST REVENUE.

                          ... The most attractive part of the ECK teachings
                          is the one-on-one relationship between them
                          and the Master. ALSO, THEY CAN REALIZE GOD
                          NOW WITHOUT A PRIEST OR CHURCH ATMOSPHERE"
                          [Fall 1983 The Wisdom Notes]

                          [ME] Doesn't Eckankar require an ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP
                          in order to 'SECURE' those INITIATIONS and their
                          'Place in Heaven' too! Doesn't this required annual
                          Eckankar membership cost money? It's Not Free!

                          Also, isn't it true that ECKANKAR has adopted the
                          same characteristics as the 'churches' Klemp is
                          putting down: ECK Worship Services; EK Clerics
                          or EK Priests; A Songbook; EK Chorus; various
                          religious ceremonies; an Outdoor Chapel; a Temple;
                          Donations; etc. BTW- Look at all of the ways ECKists
                          can DONATE their MONEY!

                          There's a whole section on Eckankar.org (members
                          only-password:translation) that is dedicated to
                          Donations! Klemp's Eckankar has been modeled
                          after the Christian Churches HK was speaking of,
                          and demeaning, 25 YEARS AGO!

                          On Another Note: Klemp has Three Grandchildren!

                          Prometheus


                          drubezarne wrote:
                          >
                          Hi Mish, Drew, Liz, and all:
                          >
                          I didn't realize Phil Morimitsu's books are no longer printed. I heard
                          from a former H.I. who used to live in Minneapolis that a while back
                          Phil wrote a book about Rebazar. In this book, he basically said he
                          (Phil) was the next Living Eck Master. Of course, the book was never
                          published and now we know why. Phil was sent to Asia (exile?) to
                          spread the word of Eck.
                          >
                          He still travels to seminars giving talks. Many eckists look up to and
                          idolize Phil. I've seen it first-hand. For a path that advocates that
                          all Souls are equal, it's very puzzling that there is so much
                          glorification of personalities and of course the worship and devotion
                          to HK. Isn't this idolatry? When we see so much adoration given to
                          mythical Eck Masters, HK, and certain H.I.'s, isn't this enough of a
                          clue that there's something wrong here. Wouldn't you think a true path
                          to God only asks that we give our love and devotion exclusively to God?
                          >
                          I consider Harold Klemp a usurper of God. He has placed himself as an
                          intermediary between his followers and God. He constantly writes about
                          himself (in the third person) as God on earth and says we should give
                          our love and devotion to him - not God, but to him. It's a sad state
                          of affairs, when I see these brainwashed eckists proclaiming their
                          love for Harold Klemp at seminars and Satsang classes. They don't
                          think they are worshiping the personality because they say they love
                          the Mahanta, but according to Klemp, he says he is the Mahanta. So,
                          whom are they really worshipping?
                          >
                          It's ironic that James Davis, author of the Rosetta Stone of God,
                          renounced his own book and left Eckankar, but Eckankar continues to
                          print his book.
                          >
                          Drew, where did you hear about HK's daughter cutting off all ties with
                          him? I'm curious to learn more about this. It reminds me of Gail
                          Twitchell cutting off ties with Eckankar.
                          >
                          Regards
                          Liska
                          >
                          >
                          Drew van Rijk wrote:
                          > >
                          Apparently HK's daughter is not only not an eckist but has cutoff all
                          ties and HK has no access to his grandchild.
                          > >
                          drubezarne@> wrote:

                          > >
                          > > Prometheus:
                          > >
                          > > Thanks for the quotes from HK about relationships. They are a perfect
                          > > example of how lame and superficial HK's writings are and how often
                          > > they contradict themselves. Do you think these shallow quotes deserve
                          > > to be even in a Hallmark card? We should remember, this is a person
                          > > claiming to speak for God because he says he has the highest
                          > > consciousness in all the universes.
                          > >
                          > > A quick search and I found many quotes about love and marriage that
                          > > have greater depth and meaning than HK's. Here is just a sampling...
                          > >
                          > > Samuel Johnson:
                          > > "On second marriages: "The triumph of hope over experience."
                          > > Boswell: Life of Samuel Johnson
                          > >
                          > > "Every man recounts the inconveniences of his own station, and thinks
                          > > those of any other less, because he has not felt them. Thus the
                          > > married praise the ease and freedom of a single state, and the single
                          > > fly to marriage from the weariness of solitude."
                          > > Johnson: Rambler #45 (August 21, 1750)
                          > >
                          > > Oscar Wilde
                          > > "Women are meant to be loved, not understood."
                          > >
                          > > Deepak Chopra
                          > > "The reason that ego and love are not compatible comes down to this:
                          > > you cannot take your ego into the unknown, where love wants to lead.
                          > > If you follow love, your life will become uncertain, and the ego
                          > > craves certainty."
                          > >
                          > > Groucho Marx:
                          > > "Some people claim that marriage interferes with romance. There's no
                          > > doubt about it. Anytime you have a romance, your wife is bound to
                          > > interfere."
                          > >
                          > > I used to belong to soul forum, Doug Marman's H.I. group. I left
                          > > because it was too contentious and there was too much hero worship of
                          > > Marman. You mentioned HK's daughter. According to Marman, he said HK's
                          > > daughter is not an Eckist. So, I believe that says a lot too, don't
                          > > you think?
                          > >
                          > > Regards
                          > > Liska
                          > >
                          prometheus wrote:
                          > > >
                          Hello All,
                          It's interesting that Twitchell was married twice
                          and Gross was married how many times? Klemp
                          was married twice as well and has one child.
                          > > >
                          Yet, Klemp seems to think he is some kind of
                          expert when writing about, "Spiritual Wisdom
                          of Relationships. "
                          > > >
                          Here are two hypocritical comments by Klemp
                          from "The Language of Soul:"
                          > > >
                          "The marriage bond can only be sacred IF it
                          is sacred to the two individuals who have agreed
                          to this union. IF they are one in heart, how can
                          they be divided?"
                          > > >
                          [ME]: Apparently Klemp's first marriage to Marge,
                          where they had a daughter, was Not Sacred to
                          one of them... Harry I'll bet! I wonder how Klemp's
                          relationship is with his daughter? Probably Not very
                          good! HK didn't even go to his father's funeral, to
                          console his mother, in Oct. 1971 because both he
                          and another nut case (John-Roger) thought they
                          were to be chosen to replace Paul!
                          > > >
                          HK: "A true marriage has commitment by each person.
                          Both realize the responsibility of that commitment.
                          A marriage of the heart let's each couple remain an
                          individual, BUT the two are as one."
                          > > >
                          [ME] It seems that when Klemp uses BUT he's taking
                          back what he has just stated! BTW- I see where Harry
                          mentions the "heart" twice and never mentions Love!
                          Wasn't his marriage, where he produced a child, one
                          where he loved his child too? I don't think Klemp is
                          capable of loving anyone except himself! Look at how
                          HK treated Joan, up on stage, after she had sung
                          The Little HU Song. Very mean... but I'm sure some
                          of the women watching didn't mind... they'd like to
                          take her place next to the Seat of Power! Really! There
                          probably are some females standing in line just as
                          Harry stood in line for Darwin's job. Make it happen
                          ladies! LOL!
                          > > >
                          Prometheus
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