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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Are you bothered by Harold Klemp's...

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  • Drew van Rijk
    Where does the money go? They sold the valuable land in Menlo Park, CA and in Sedona , AZ to move to Minnesota. When the temple was complete Klemp said that
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 2, 2008
      Where does the money go? They sold the valuable land in Menlo Park, CA and in Sedona , AZ to move to Minnesota. When the temple was complete Klemp said that the 6 million dollar's raised was 3 million short of construction costs and that eckankar would now pay off the costs.....but the profit's on the land they sold could have built the temple! They did not need any money! Ford Johnson touched a bit on this in Confessions or a Godseeker. Eckankar is not transparent financially and is quite wealthy but it always has it's hand out for cash, after all that is why it was created by PT in the beginning!

      --- On Sat, 8/2/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
      From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Are you bothered by Harold Klemp's...
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 11:06 AM

      Some of you eckists, in your search for finding meaning in
      Eckankar, might have stumbled on this forum. Are you bothered by
      doubts about the organization and Harold's insistence that he is the
      manifestation of God because you find his words and actions contradict
      this?

      Are you troubled by Harold Klemp's...

      1. Writings and talks that lack vigor and interest. For the last
      several World Wide seminars, his talks were mostly rehashed stories by
      other eckists. He even excuses these shallow and uninspired stories by
      telling another eckist's story. The story relates that after one
      of Klemp's talks at a World Wide, this eckist's friend said he didn't
      think much of the talk. In response the eckist defended Klemp's
      stories by saying the messages are very subtle.

      2. Draconian statements criticizing eckists, former eckists,
      religions/spiritual paths, and other Masters. Here are just a few:

      (Harold speaking about Paul) "The Catholic priest turned his face from
      him, Kirpal Singh was only a grotesque mask covering the true
      countenance of the Absolute Being, and Scientology was found to be a
      shallow mind science that left off at the foot of the holy mountain to
      the SUGMAD.
      The ECK Satsang Discourses, Fourth Series, Harold Klemp

      "In Paul's day so many initiates hid from the world because of the
      evil in it. But they missed the point that earth, like heaven, is cut
      from God's cloth. Many refused to develop careers, take out insurance
      policies, or even see a doctor for illness. The ECK would make all
      better. It was easier to hide from life than to live it. They had a
      desire for heaven but were deathly afraid to find it. Fear of life
      made them passive, so they put together from the ECK teachings a dead
      path to God that did not work for them. If only they had found love."
      (If only Harold had found love, then he wouldn't feel the need to
      criticize other people).
      Soul Travel 1, The Illuminated Way by Harold Klemp, p 42

      "True to the mold of the loser, failure in their life is always the
      fault of somebody else. They seldom take responsibility for what they
      do, and what they do is done in a halfhearted and sloppy way." The Eck
      Satsang Discourses 4th Series, p. 16.

      3. Support of Paul Twitchell's lies and plagiarized writings - see the
      following site for the documentation of Twitchell's plagiarisms:

      http://vclass. mtsac.edu: 930/phil/ center.htm

      He defends Twitchell's plagiarized writings to the degree that he
      quotes from them numerous times. He even embellishes the mythology
      with dishonest tales of his own meant to convince his followers that
      Paul was also a godly man. See Ford Johnson's free .pdf book:

      http://tinyurl. com/589tcr

      4. Lack of truth and transparency in which no one is told where how
      Eckankar is spending your money. Many other religions send their
      parishioners yearly financial statements.

      and so on... (feel free to add your own to this thread)

      Remember Harold Klemps has stated numerous times that he is God on
      earth. Here are just a couple of his quotes...

      "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the embodiment
      of the SUGMAD(God), as the ECK, and therefore represents the entire
      ocean of love and compassion. This strikes a reactive note in anyone
      who operates under the strictures of the human level of perception."
      The Eck Satsang Discourses, Fourth Series, Page 20, Harold Klemp 1996

      "He (Klemp) is the ideal and the vanguard of the human race."
      The Eck Satsang Discourses, Fourth Series, Page 24, Harold Klemp 1996

      Regards,
      Liška V Drubezárne



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    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, When I first joined EK I was searching for the Truth. Some of the Eckists I met early on were as fanatical as I became later. Somehow, it seems, the
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 2, 2008
        Hello All,
        When I first joined EK I was searching for the Truth.
        Some of the Eckists I met early on were as fanatical
        as I became later. Somehow, it seems, the distractions
        of leadership, service, seminars, and earning initiations
        (rank) became the focus. This misdirection, busy work,
        and careless use of the imagination only gives one a
        false sense of security and a false sense of spirituality.
        This is the trap of all religions and of the KAL. Many
        longtime Eckists (mostly 7ths) don't really follow the
        letter of the law (Zoas), Nor do they follow HK's
        Guidelines. After all, isn't Soul a Law unto Itself!

        See, this is where some of the older PT EK Dogma
        comes back to bite Harry in the arse. And, I recall
        reading in, maybe, the last Mahanta Transcript where
        Klemp said, "It's foolish for people to believe everything
        that I say and do." What a disclaimer! Not until I read
        Ford's book (Confessions of a God Seeker) did I finally
        understand Why I had misgivings of Klemp and of the
        ECK Master lineage, and of the closed minded idiots
        that were H.I.s just like me!

        Finally it made sense as to Why these dysfunctional
        morons were Higher Initiates! It had nothing to do with
        Consciousness! They either: knew people (friends in high
        places); were professionals; had maintained a longtime on-
        going membership (and kept their noses clean); had made
        themselves stand out in the crowd and became noticed
        (positively) by other important H.I.s. These are (basically)
        the keys to success (initiation rank) in Eckankar.

        However, Klemp slowed down the Initiations and, today,
        has his chelas and H.I.s jumping through more and more
        hoops in order to earn their stripes through "service" versus
        consciousness. It's no wonder, then, that Klemp actually
        enjoyed serving in the military with it's dominating, inefficient,
        and incompetent hierarchy. HK based his religious (Lutheran)
        version of Eckankar (the RESA hierarchy) upon his experience
        with the military hierarchy.

        Anyway, if ECKists just take the time to look and listen
        and to question Why the EK H.I.s are the way they are
        they will figure out that it has nothing to do with a "Higher"
        consciousness! Sorry, but wake up to the Truth! Therefore,
        ones observations will prove that Klemp is all talk and that
        the "stories" HK shares are merely exaggerated, imagined,
        and is wishful ("as if") thinking.

        Can Klemp Protect and Heal ECKists with his Gaze or
        by other methods? If that's true then Why do High Ranking
        ECKists Die of Cancer? See! This is proof, as well as, Klemp
        "Not Knowing" Who the ECK FOXES are! Where's the "inner"
        communication with the Mahanta for Initiations too! Really!
        Do ECKists, Who are supposed to be advanced Souls, need
        to belong to any Religion or Church? Why? What's the point?
        Where's the Spiritual Freedom (and spiritual meat) within
        Religious Dogma? Why is ECK Mastership for only the 12th
        Initiates? This means that for all but 2 or 3 individuals...
        there is No Spiritual Freedom or Self-Mastery in this lifetime!
        It's the same old after death next life promise that all
        religions use! Eckankar is a hoax just as it's origins of
        Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang are. But most ECKists
        will continue to need their religion, their EK friends and
        EK relatives, and those happy and warm feelings of ego
        and security fueled by their imaginations and desires.
        Such is the way and trap of all manmade religions!

        Prometheus

        drubezarne wrote:
        >
        > Some of you eckists, in your search for finding meaning in
        > Eckankar, might have stumbled on this forum. Are you bothered by
        > doubts about the organization and Harold's insistence that he is the
        > manifestation of God because you find his words and actions contradict
        > this?
        >
        > Are you troubled by Harold Klemp's...
        >
        > 1. Writings and talks that lack vigor and interest. For the last
        > several World Wide seminars, his talks were mostly rehashed stories by
        > other eckists. He even excuses these shallow and uninspired stories by
        > telling another eckist's story. The story relates that after one
        > of Klemp's talks at a World Wide, this eckist's friend said he didn't
        > think much of the talk. In response the eckist defended Klemp's
        > stories by saying the messages are very subtle.
        >
        > 2. Draconian statements criticizing eckists, former eckists,
        > religions/spiritual paths, and other Masters. Here are just a few:
        >
        > (Harold speaking about Paul) "The Catholic priest turned his face from
        > him, Kirpal Singh was only a grotesque mask covering the true
        > countenance of the Absolute Being, and Scientology was found to be a
        > shallow mind science that left off at the foot of the holy mountain to
        > the SUGMAD.
        > The ECK Satsang Discourses, Fourth Series, Harold Klemp
        >
        > "In Paul's day so many initiates hid from the world because of the
        > evil in it. But they missed the point that earth, like heaven, is cut
        > from God's cloth. Many refused to develop careers, take out insurance
        > policies, or even see a doctor for illness. The ECK would make all
        > better. It was easier to hide from life than to live it. They had a
        > desire for heaven but were deathly afraid to find it. Fear of life
        > made them passive, so they put together from the ECK teachings a dead
        > path to God that did not work for them. If only they had found love."
        > (If only Harold had found love, then he wouldn't feel the need to
        > criticize other people).
        > Soul Travel 1, The Illuminated Way by Harold Klemp, p 42
        >
        > "True to the mold of the loser, failure in their life is always the
        > fault of somebody else. They seldom take responsibility for what they
        > do, and what they do is done in a halfhearted and sloppy way." The Eck
        > Satsang Discourses 4th Series, p. 16.
        >
        > 3. Support of Paul Twitchell's lies and plagiarized writings - see the
        > following site for the documentation of Twitchell's plagiarisms:
        >
        > http://vclass.mtsac.edu:930/phil/center.htm
        >
        > He defends Twitchell's plagiarized writings to the degree that he
        > quotes from them numerous times. He even embellishes the mythology
        > with dishonest tales of his own meant to convince his followers that
        > Paul was also a godly man. See Ford Johnson's free .pdf book:
        >
        > http://tinyurl.com/589tcr
        >
        > 4. Lack of truth and transparency in which no one is told where how
        > Eckankar is spending your money. Many other religions send their
        > parishioners yearly financial statements.
        >
        > and so on... (feel free to add your own to this thread)
        >
        > Remember Harold Klemps has stated numerous times that he is God on
        > earth. Here are just a couple of his quotes...
        >
        > "The Mahanta, the Living ECK Master (Harold Klemp) is the embodiment
        > of the SUGMAD(God), as the ECK, and therefore represents the entire
        > ocean of love and compassion. This strikes a reactive note in anyone
        > who operates under the strictures of the human level of perception."
        > The Eck Satsang Discourses, Fourth Series, Page 20, Harold Klemp 1996
        >
        > "He (Klemp) is the ideal and the vanguard of the human race."
        > The Eck Satsang Discourses, Fourth Series, Page 24, Harold Klemp 1996
        >
        > Regards,
        > Liška V Drubezárne
        >
      • drubezarne
        Isn t it time people for people to look into Klemp s empire? They did it with Rajneesh and found out the man had 90 Rolls Royce luxury cars. Why doesn t
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 3, 2008
          Isn't it time people for people to look into Klemp's empire? They did
          it with Rajneesh and found out the man had 90 Rolls Royce luxury cars.
          Why doesn't someone take a picture of Klemp's mansion and post it on
          the web? Surely, there's some person out there who knows more than we
          do and is finally ready to talk.

          By the way, we've been getting notice after notice to attend the
          Eckankar World Wide seminar. We received at least 4 e-mails and of
          course the usual printed brochure with all the happy blissed out
          eckists and Klemp. Could the downturn in the economy and the lack of
          new members finally have an effect on Eckankar?

          Maybe we could spread the fox in the henhouse article around the
          internet. It shows the real Harold Klemp without the smiling mask. One
          other observation. When Klemp writes to the lower initiates (Mystic
          World) he signs off Affectionately, Harold. When he writes to the
          H.I.'s, he doesn't even bother to put in the word Affectionately. He
          knows by the time they become H.I.'s, they're totally brainwashed.

          Regards
          Liška V Drubezárne



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Drew van Rijk
          <drewvanr@...> wrote:
          >
          > Where does the money go? They sold the valuable land in Menlo Park,
          CA and in Sedona , AZ to move to Minnesota. When the temple was
          complete Klemp said that the 6 million dollar's raised was 3 million
          short of construction costs and that eckankar would now pay off the
          costs.....but the profit's on the land they sold could have built the
          temple! They did not need any money! Ford Johnson touched a bit on
          this in Confessions or a Godseeker. Eckankar is not transparent
          financially and is quite wealthy but it always has it's hand out for
          cash, after all that is why it was created by PT in the beginning!
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, I think that Klemp is a little bit more wary of allowing his followers to see his wealth than was Rajneesh. However, I m sure that HK and Peter do
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 3, 2008
            Hello All,
            I think that Klemp is a little bit more wary of
            allowing his followers to see his wealth than
            was Rajneesh. However, I'm sure that HK and
            Peter do have plenty of money squirreled away,
            as well as, property. Klemp lives, mostly, in
            Eden Prairie, MN. as do many other high profile
            ECKists. A previous post on this site listed their
            names. This has led me to believe that the Tax
            Exempt ECKANKAR Church owns the houses and
            condos they live in. And, after all, these High Initiates
            are also Clerics and more than likely don't pay any
            Income Taxes either! This is why the higher-up
            worker bees at the ESC don't need much money
            to live on.

            Peter Skelsky, on the other hand, needed to have
            his EK office furnished with very expensive French
            Provincial furniture. Peter lives in Eden Prairie too,
            but, also, has a condo in either Sarasota or Tampa,
            FL. I forget which... I used to know the address!

            However, there are many reasons as to why Eckankar
            moved from California to Minnesota. One of the reasons
            is that Eckankar doesn't have to divulge their finances
            to their membership as they would in California. Another
            reason for the move is that land was much cheaper
            in Minnesota. Also, there is less chance of having Eckists
            influenced by other New Age Religionists and New
            Age thought because California is a beehive of activity
            for these other religions. Sant Mat, the origins of Eckankar,
            and other similar religious thought is pervasive in California.

            Minnesota doesn't have these corruptive influences
            because Eckists would make comparisons and eventually
            see that Twitchell copied the Sant Mat religions and
            that he was just a self-proclaimed Guru (as is Klemp).

            And, Klemp feels more at home far away from
            California because Minnesota is similar to Wisconsin
            with the strong Lutheran influences. Klemp was a fish
            out of water in California! That's because he had to jump
            out of the water or be eaten by the bigger fish. In
            Minnesota Klemp's the biggest New Age fish around!
            Klemp's one dimensional EK speak (stories, etc.) smell
            like three day old fish when compared to Twitchell's
            Ruhani Satsang imitation! The only time Klemp's message
            sounds interesting is when he takes it from Twitchell's
            Shariyats, Tiger's Fang, or Stranger by the River which
            was based upon Kirpal Singh or his influence upon Twit!

            ECKists must find their own way. They are Soul and have
            the tools to BE their own Master here and now... without
            the need for Gurus, con-men, and such.

            Prometheus

            drubezarne wrote:
            >
            Isn't it time people for people to look into Klemp's empire? They did
            it with Rajneesh and found out the man had 90 Rolls Royce luxury cars.
            Why doesn't someone take a picture of Klemp's mansion and post it on
            the web? Surely, there's some person out there who knows more than we
            do and is finally ready to talk.
            >
            By the way, we've been getting notice after notice to attend the
            Eckankar World Wide seminar. We received at least 4 e-mails and of
            course the usual printed brochure with all the happy blissed out
            eckists and Klemp. Could the downturn in the economy and the lack of
            new members finally have an effect on Eckankar?
            >
            Maybe we could spread the fox in the henhouse article around the
            internet. It shows the real Harold Klemp without the smiling mask. One
            other observation. When Klemp writes to the lower initiates (Mystic
            World) he signs off Affectionately, Harold. When he writes to the
            H.I.'s, he doesn't even bother to put in the word Affectionately. He
            knows by the time they become H.I.'s, they're totally brainwashed.
            >
            Regards
            Liška V Drubezárne
            >
            drewvanr wrote:
            > >
            Where does the money go? They sold the valuable land in Menlo Park,
            CA and in Sedona , AZ to move to Minnesota. When the temple was
            complete Klemp said that the 6 million dollar's raised was 3 million
            short of construction costs and that eckankar would now pay off the
            costs.....but the profit's on the land they sold could have built the
            temple! They did not need any money! Ford Johnson touched a bit on
            this in Confessions or a Godseeker. Eckankar is not transparent
            financially and is quite wealthy but it always has it's hand out for
            cash, after all that is why it was created by PT in the beginning!
          • Elizabeth
            Another reason they moved to MN was due to the high profile law suit concerning the Sedona property! ECKANKAR was the esoteric group that is mentioned in
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 3, 2008
              Another reason they moved to MN was due to the high profile law suit concerning the Sedona property!
               
              ECKANKAR was the "esoteric group" that is mentioned in this article. Helen Frye joined Eckankar in 1969, was an EK 8th Initiate, became "involved" with Darwin Gross and in 1979 had a riff with him after she discovered Twitchell's Plagiarisms!
              http://www.sedonalegendhelenfrye.com/index.html
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
               
              -------Original Message-------
               
              Date: 8/3/2008 2:00:56 PM
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Eckankar - Klemp's Empire!
               
              Hello All,
              I think that Klemp is a little bit more wary of
              allowing his followers to see his wealth than
              was Rajneesh. However, I'm sure that HK and
              Peter do have plenty of money squirreled away,
              as well as, property. Klemp lives, mostly, in
              Eden Prairie, MN. as do many other high profile
              ECKists. A previous post on this site listed their
              names. This has led me to believe that the Tax
              Exempt ECKANKAR Church owns the houses and
              condos they live in. And, after all, these High Initiates
              are also Clerics and more than likely don't pay any
              Income Taxes either! This is why the higher-up
              worker bees at the ESC don't need much money
              to live on.
               
              Peter Skelsky, on the other hand, needed to have
              his EK office furnished with very expensive French
              Provincial furniture. Peter lives in Eden Prairie too,
              but, also, has a condo in either Sarasota or Tampa,
              FL. I forget which... I used to know the address!
               
              However, there are many reasons as to why Eckankar
              moved from California to Minnesota. One of the reasons
              is that Eckankar doesn't have to divulge their finances
              to their membership as they would in California. Another
              reason for the move is that land was much cheaper
              in Minnesota. Also, there is less chance of having Eckists
              influenced by other New Age Religionists and New
              Age thought because California is a beehive of activity
              for these other religions. Sant Mat, the origins of Eckankar,
              and other similar religious thought is pervasive in California.
               
              Minnesota doesn't have these corruptive influences
              because Eckists would make comparisons and eventually
              see that Twitchell copied the Sant Mat religions and
              that he was just a self-proclaimed Guru (as is Klemp).
               
              And, Klemp feels more at home far away from
              California because Minnesota is similar to Wisconsin
              with the strong Lutheran influences. Klemp was a fish
              out of water in California! That's because he had to jump
              out of the water or be eaten by the bigger fish. In
              Minnesota Klemp's the biggest New Age fish around!
              Klemp's one dimensional EK speak (stories, etc.) smell
              like three day old fish when compared to Twitchell's
              Ruhani Satsang imitation! The only time Klemp's message
              sounds interesting is when he takes it from Twitchell's
              Shariyats, Tiger's Fang, or Stranger by the River which
              was based upon Kirpal Singh or his influence upon Twit!
               
              ECKists must find their own way. They are Soul and have
              the tools to BE their own Master here and now... without
              the need for Gurus, con-men, and such.
               
              Prometheus
               
              drubezarne wrote:
              >
              Isn't it time people for people to look into Klemp's empire? They did
              it with Rajneesh and found out the man had 90 Rolls Royce luxury cars.
              Why doesn't someone take a picture of Klemp's mansion and post it on
              the web? Surely, there's some person out there who knows more than we
              do and is finally ready to talk.
              >
              By the way, we've been getting notice after notice to attend the
              Eckankar World Wide seminar. We received at least 4 e-mails and of
              course the usual printed brochure with all the happy blissed out
              eckists and Klemp. Could the downturn in the economy and the lack of
              new members finally have an effect on Eckankar?
              >
              Maybe we could spread the fox in the henhouse article around the
              internet. It shows the real Harold Klemp without the smiling mask. One
              other observation. When Klemp writes to the lower initiates (Mystic
              World) he signs off Affectionately, Harold. When he writes to the
              H.I.'s, he doesn't even bother to put in the word Affectionately. He
              knows by the time they become H.I.'s, they're totally brainwashed.
              >
              Regards
              Liška V Drubezárne
              >
              drewvanr wrote:
              > >
              Where does the money go? They sold the valuable land in Menlo Park,
              CA and in Sedona , AZ to move to Minnesota. When the temple was
              complete Klemp said that the 6 million dollar's raised was 3 million
              short of construction costs and that eckankar would now pay off the
              costs.....but the profit's on the land they sold could have built the
              temple! They did not need any money! Ford Johnson touched a bit on
              this in Confessions or a Godseeker. Eckankar is not transparent
              financially and is quite wealthy but it always has it's hand out for
              cash, after all that is why it was created by PT in the beginning!
               
               
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            • vicchaiken
              The thing that is bothersome is that Klemp is a fraud and engages in a criminal enterprise because he takes money from people who are trusting that he is
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 4, 2008
                The thing that is bothersome is that Klemp
                is a fraud and engages in a criminal enterprise
                because he takes money from people who are
                trusting that he is something that he represents
                himself to be. He is a fraud and a liar.

                Eckankar is sure to make a lot of money and
                Klemp makes his money from the activities
                of Eckankar. Whether it was a dime or a million
                dollars is not as much of a concern to me as the
                fact that Klemp's entire life is devoted to conning
                people. Eckists may say that this is an individual
                matter, but then again Eckists are very deluded
                individuals.
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