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Hello from a long-time dupe of eckankar

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  • pjr_sr
    Hi I m looking forward to participating. I was a long-time sucker with all the titles and duties. By the way, did you know Ford Johnson s entire book
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 28, 2008
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      Hi

      I'm looking forward to participating. I was a long-time sucker with
      all the titles and duties.

      By the way, did you know Ford Johnson's entire book Confessions of a
      God Seeker is now available for free as a .pdf

      Here's the link...
      http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=6&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onepublishinginc.com%2FUnencryptedV1%2FConfessions_of_a_God_Seeker.pdf&ei=tCSOSJvHC4WweaHOgO4P&usg=AFQjCNF4bHvK3pJzjcfUM03kvuUsyGvI-A&sig2=c7lLySRRPhMVgeaDf_XHdQ

      If the link doesn't work for you then type the following into google:

      confessions of a god seeker .pdf

      Scroll down and it should appear at about the 6th entry.

      Best
      pjr
    • prometheus_973
      Hello PJR and All, I ll have to get back to you later to comment more. BTW could you (or someone) do a tinyurl of this free PDF of Confessions for me. It
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 30, 2008
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        Hello PJR and All,
        I'll have to get back to you later to comment more.
        BTW could you (or someone) do a "tinyurl" of this
        free PDF of Confessions for me. It needs to be
        compressed down and I'm having some browser
        problems that won't allow me to do this.

        Yes, I too have the White Clouds book, as well as,
        "The Path of the Masters" which I, too, used to verify
        the info in Ford Johnson's "Confessions of a God
        Seeker." The thing that many ECKists don't realize,
        while other ECKists talk around it, is that when Twitchell
        Doesn't Give his word-for-word sources this is called
        plagiarism!

        Plagiarism is disallowed in high school and, especially,
        in college. However, if people would just list the sources
        of their "quotes" and references for their info this would
        be allowed because it is being honest and truthful and
        delineates one person's ideas and work from another's.

        Therefore, Twitchell copied Radhasoami and Ruhani
        Satsang info while "twisting facts" and making it seem
        that Eckankar (Eck) came first and is original while other
        religions are copies. This is what con-men do... lie!

        While it is true that SPIRIT came first (of course!),
        the Eckankar copyrighted and "ECK" version came
        later by distorting the Ruhani Satsang teachings of
        Kirpal Singh who Twitchell followed for ten years
        (1955-1965)! Even Klemp admits on Eckankar.org
        that Kirpal returned to Twitchell "The Tiger's Fang"
        manuscript (in 1966).

        More later,

        Prometheus

        PJR wrote:
        Prometheus and all

        Yes, I read Julian Johnson's book Path of the Masters. I figured I
        would do my own research rather than just take someone's word for it,
        so I've been reading the other books that Paul plagiarized. Currently,
        I'm reading The Way of the White Clouds by Lama Anagarika Govinda.
        Paul stole passages from chapter 2 to write his fable about Lai Tsi
        and used it to make up the name of one of his Eck Masters Tomo Geshig.
        Most libraries with an interlibrary loan system can get these books.

        I joined Eckankar a long time ago. As a family we paid for lifetime
        memberships. Now, I have to figure out if I want to work from the
        inside to put a stop to the madness and help others escape or just
        leave it all behind. My doubts grew over the years about all that
        Mahanta malarkey and that Harold was working with chelas from the inner.

        When Harold Klemp wrote that chelas who only believed in him as an
        outer Master and not as the inner Master too and then went so far as
        to call them schizophrenic eckists, I had to say, "Yes, I'm a
        schizophrenic eckist!"

        I've been collecting Klemp's nasty quotes and I don't see how anybody
        after reading them can believe he is Sugmad (God) on earth. At last
        year's WW he said some pretty ill-tempered things about his own wife.
        I could tell they hurt her as she walked off the stage.

        I'm currently stuck, finishing a Satsang class. I gave each of the
        people in the class a scanned copy of Johnson's Path of the Masters.
        They don't suspect my true feelings about the Eckankar mess, but they
        sure appreciated the book. Now, if I could only figure out a way to
        sneak in Ford's book into the Satsang...

        I don't know how many of you are active or reading these posts, but is
        anybody interested in helping distribute the .pdf of Ford's book to
        different sites dealing with Eckankar including those with Eckankar
        members?

        If it's not asking too much, I would also like to get to know your
        backgrounds.

        "pjr_sr" <pjr_sr@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi
        >
        > I'm looking forward to participating. I was a long-time sucker with
        > all the titles and duties.
        >
        > By the way, did you know Ford Johnson's entire book Confessions of a
        > God Seeker is now available for free as a .pdf
        >
        > Here's the link...

        http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=6&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.
        onepublishinginginc\.com%2FUnencryptedV1%2FConfessions_of_a_God_Seeker.
        pdf&ei=tCSOSJvHC4WweaHOgO4P&u\sg=AFQjCNF4bHvK3pJzjcfUM03kvuUsyGvI-
        A&sig2=c7lLySRRPhMVgeaDf_XHdQ
        >
        > If the link doesn't work for you then type the following into google:
        >
        > confessions of a god seeker .pdf
        >
        > Scroll down and it should appear at about the 6th entry.
        >
        > Best
        > pjr
        >
      • drubezarne
        I m not sure how to compress the url. Perhaps someone could put it on another web site. I uploaded it to one of the Eck groups which immediately banned me from
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 30, 2008
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          I'm not sure how to compress the url. Perhaps someone could put it on
          another web site. I uploaded it to one of the Eck groups which
          immediately banned me from the site. They're very sensitive to the
          truth and would rather believe fables and myths such as Harold Klemp's
          whopper about Julian Johnson, Paul, and others having received the
          exact same info from some astral library. In other words, Paul never
          plagiarized because the same information is available for researchers
          at this astral library. I have talked to people in eckankar who
          believe this whole heartedly, even when I read the exact same passages
          from two different books.

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello PJR and All,
          > I'll have to get back to you later to comment more.
          > BTW could you (or someone) do a "tinyurl" of this
          > free PDF of Confessions for me. It needs to be
          > compressed down and I'm having some browser
          > problems that won't allow me to do this.
        • Elizabeth
          Try this link to Ford s book http://tinyurl.com/589tcr To do this yourself go to this link http://tinyurl.com/ Liz ... From: drubezarne Date: 7/30/2008 5:32:49
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 30, 2008
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            Try this link to Ford's book
             
             
            To do this yourself go to this link
             
             
            Liz

             
             
            -------Original Message-------
             
            Date: 7/30/2008 5:32:49 PM
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Hello from a long-time dupe of eckankar
             
            I'm not sure how to compress the url. Perhaps someone could put it on
            another web site.
          • prometheus_973
            Hello again, One can Google Tinyurl and this takes you to the site where a long url can be compressed down. I, too, joined a long time ago but didn t opt for
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 30, 2008
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              Hello again,
              One can Google "Tinyurl" and this takes you to the
              site where a long url can be compressed down.

              I, too, joined a long time ago but didn't opt for the
              lifetime membership even when it was offered at $500.

              At first I didn't attend that many EK seminars and, thus,
              didn't meet many H.I.s out of state or country. However,
              after Klemp became LEM my job allowed me more money
              and more days for travel to seminars (major and regional).
              I started as a volunteer and speaker, although, I enjoyed
              facilitating small groups the best. The organizational and
              planning aspect of regionals, especially, was very difficult
              in the beginning (majors were more fun). Later, after we
              documented guidelines and procedures and submitted
              them to the ESC the event planning became easier.

              However, we gradually woke up to the fact that the monetary
              expenditure was not worth it for the handful of newcomers
              that showed up because only a couple might become members.
              The time we invested was never questioned because that
              is expected (service) if one wants to be on the "fast track"
              for promotion as a vahana. Even those in "settler" positions
              (versus "explorer") need to give support for the vahana (missionary)
              effort. It is said that there must be "outflow" for "inflow"
              to take place but tell that to the 7ths and former RESAs
              who have had that same 7th initiation level for 20-30 years!

              I think it's good that you're still hanging in there with your
              lifetime membership. If I had one I'd still be there until they
              excommunicated me! Watch it though because Klemp can
              still demote you to a 1st like he did with Graham. Heretics,
              however, might last longer than those that actually challenge
              Klemp's abilities to hold onto the Rod of ECK Power. This is
              what really got Klemp out-of-sorts and bent out of shape
              when it came to Graham Forsyth and his dream where a
              Silent One allowed him to hold the Rod (briefly) to feel it's
              Power. I guess that Klemp, now, knew what Kirpal Singh felt
              when he read Paul's "The Tiger's Fang" manuscript and of
              those embellished "dream" stories. Yet, Klemp can't seem
              to see the correlation between the two incidents! Ironic! LOL!

              BTW PJR, why can't you quit your satsang? Are you the
              Arahata? I've felt like quiting them before because nobody
              would show up! The same with HU Chants and Open Houses!
              There are even those Eckists who forget to show up at the
              EK Center for their Initiation! It's funny how some RESAs
              rule with an iron fist, while others delegate everything,
              and others just take a laissez faire' give a sh_t attitude.
              Most end up just parroting the introductory brochures
              because they're burned out about caring too much after
              years of Klemp's simple-minded recycled stories and overall
              redundancy. What happened to a Shariyat 3&4? There's No
              spiritual meat after 27 years with Klemp in charge. There
              was always hope, but that's been dashed with 20 plus years
              of an Initiation slow-down. Twitchell talked about having
              a few Ninths back in the April 1, 1970 Wisdom Notes. So,
              why are there so many 7ths and so few 8ths and 9ths?

              Actually, rather than trying to sneak in Ford's book why
              not just ask questions like, Why does Klemp suggest reading
              Rumi's poetry when it's about his 2nd or 4th Plane God
              who is really the KAL? [See Autobiography of a Modern
              Prophet page 385] Besides, the Eck Lexicon states that
              Rumi was just a "follower of Eck" and not an Eck Master!
              Or, one could ask, I wonder Why the Mahanta (Harold) hasn't
              written any poetry to equal Rumi's... HK was listed in the
              International Who's Who of Intellectuals (ninth edition)?
              Or, one could mention the comments Klemp made to Joan
              while on stage. Don't you have a Mystic World Discussion,
              or a review of the most recent EK Seminar? If you don't
              have these "satsangs" maybe you could get permission
              to facilitate these and then you could discuss or point out
              Klemp's nasty 4th Plane words and 2nd Plane behaviour!

              prometheus




              Drubezarne wrote:
              I joined Eckankar a long time ago. As a family we paid for lifetime
              memberships. Now, I have to figure out if I want to work from the
              inside to put a stop to the madness and help others escape or just
              leave it all behind. My doubts grew over the years about all that
              Mahanta malarkey and that Harold was working with chelas from
              the inner.

              When Harold Klemp wrote that chelas who only believed in him as an
              outer Master and not as the inner Master too and then went so far as
              to call them schizophrenic eckists, I had to say, "Yes, I'm a
              schizophrenic eckist!"

              I've been collecting Klemp's nasty quotes and I don't see how anybody
              after reading them can believe he is Sugmad (God) on earth. At last
              year's WW he said some pretty ill-tempered things about his own wife.
              I could tell they hurt her as she walked off the stage.

              I'm currently stuck, finishing a Satsang class. I gave each of the
              people in the class a scanned copy of Johnson's Path of the Masters.
              They don't suspect my true feelings about the Eckankar mess, but they
              sure appreciated the book. Now, if I could only figure out a way to
              sneak in Ford's book into the Satsang...

              I don't know how many of you are active or reading these posts, but is
              anybody interested in helping distribute the .pdf of Ford's book to
              different sites dealing with Eckankar including those with Eckankar
              members?

              If it's not asking too much, I would also like to get to know your
              backgrounds.




              drubezarne wrote:
              >
              I'm not sure how to compress the url. Perhaps someone
              could put it on another web site. I uploaded it to one of
              the Eck groups which immediately banned me from the
              site. They're very sensitive to the truth and would rather
              believe fables and myths such as Harold Klemp's whopper
              about Julian Johnson, Paul, and others having received the
              exact same info from some astral library. In other words,
              Paul never plagiarized because the same information is
              available for researchers at this astral library. I have talked
              to people in eckankar who believe this whole heartedly,
              even when I read the exact same passages from two different
              books.
              >
              prometheus_973 wrote:
              > >
              Hello PJR and All,
              I'll have to get back to you later to comment more.
              BTW could you (or someone) do a "tinyurl" of this
              free PDF of Confessions for me. It needs to be
              compressed down and I'm having some browser
              problems that won't allow me to do this.

              Mish wrote:

              Re: Ford's entire book available in pdf for free

              Welcome to the site. Loved reading your posts. I don't have
              much of a background in eckankar--wasn't a member very
              long, but long enough to come away from eck events with
              headaches and stomach pains. I agree that Harold is a nasty
              man--he doesn't have enough sense to cover that up in what
              he writes. I guess he is so "sick" he doesn't realize what a cad
              he is. Yeah, too bad about Joan but yet she willingly got herself
              into it and for some reason (I can't figure out the attraction) she
              hooked up with Klemp.

              But back to nasty Klemp--reading off and on some discussions
              on eck chat sites, many of them seem to emulate Klemp's
              harsh and nasty way of communicating, but yet they will often
              sign off "in eck love." Reminds me of a parent beating his kid
              half to death but telling him he did it out of love!

              Mish

              pjr_sr" <pjr_sr@...> wrote:
              >
              > Prometheus and all
              >
              > Yes, I read Julian Johnson's book Path of the Masters. I figured I
              > would do my own research rather than just take someone's word for it,
              > so I've been reading the other books that Paul plagiarized. Currently,
              > I'm reading The Way of the White Clouds by Lama Anagarika Govinda.
              > Paul stole passages from chapter 2 to write his fable about Lai Tsi
              > and used it to make up the name of one of his Eck Masters Tomo Geshig.
              > Most libraries with an interlibrary loan system can get these books.
            • prometheus_973
              http://tinyurl.com/589tcr Here it is and it s Free for all Eckists to finally read... if they can just get past their guilt & fears! But, Not to worry! It s
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 31, 2008
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                http://tinyurl.com/589tcr

                Here it is and it's Free for all Eckists
                to finally read... if they can just get
                past their guilt & fears!

                But, Not to worry! It's should be obvious,
                by now, that Klemp (the Mahanta) has
                No real Powers... it's all imaginary!

                This is Why Klemp has to write books
                and give talks on the Outer Physical
                (1st) Plane just like other dried out,
                past their prime, boring & redundant
                preachers.

                So, Why Not NOW Read Ford's book?
                It has Graham's Forsyth's account of
                his Inner Dream experience with one
                of the Nine Silent One's and How Klemp
                negatively reacted to the dream.

                How can one help What they dream,
                especially, when one HUs in order to
                challenge the validity of the experience.
                This is what ECKists are instructed to do...
                use "charged" words like HU to verify
                that these are ECK Masters, etc.!

                Graham shared his Inner Dream Experience,
                with Klemp and had HK demote him to a
                1st initiate! This just goes to show ALL
                ECKists that they can't trust their Mahanta
                with Everything that they might experience
                in their Dreams on the Inner Planes!

                Why would that be?

                It's because Klemp automatically gives a
                negative knee-jerk reaction since he felt
                threatened and thought he was being
                challenged as the LEM. In the Older Original
                ECK Dogma of Twitchell's the Silent Ones
                answered, Only, to SUGMAD. However, over
                the years, Klemp has edited this, too, and
                Now HK has the Silent Ones "UNDER" the
                Mahanta in the Spiritual Hierarchy! This
                prevents ECKists from by-passing the
                middleman Mahanta on the Inner Planes!

                Strange isn't it? On page 197 of his ECK
                LEXICON Klemp doesn't even mention
                the NINE SILENT ONES in the definition
                for "spiritual hierarchy." However, on
                page 131 is the definition for MAHAVAKYIS:

                "The silent travelers ; the Silent Ones;
                agents of the SUGMAD who are responsible
                ONLY to It; they are in command of the
                great SOUND CURRENT, and give AID and
                COMFORT to the SUGMAD in Its eternal
                home, as well as being In Charge of the
                Mechanical Phases of the Lower Universes.
                See also Nine Silent Ones; Volapuk."

                [So, Why is it, again, that ECKists need
                a LEM or a Mahanta when they have the
                SILENT ONES who are in Charge of the
                ECK (Sound Current) on all Planes, as well
                as, the Lower Plane mechanics?]

                Really though! What ECKist would decline
                the offer, after HUing and meeting a SILENT
                ONE, to hold the Rod of ECK Power?

                Not many! Unless, they feared getting
                "burned." But, long-time ECKists aren't
                afraid! And, if the offer was made, after
                verifying this was actually an ECK Master
                or Higher via singing HU or using another
                "charged" word, then it must be okay to
                hold the Rod or else the offer wouldn't
                have been made! Right!

                A SILENT ONE wouldn't make the offer
                if you weren't ready. That's the same
                principle that applies to Initiations... right?
                Being allowed to hold the "ROD" is the
                same as being offered a Higher Initiation!

                I wonder how many other ECKists have been
                permitted to hold the Rod of ECK Power, but
                haven't shared this in an IRO? After reading or
                hearing about how Klemp demoted poor Graham
                I can understand why ECKists are afraid to "share"
                their really juicy Inner Dream experiences, and
                Why the ones Klemp does "share" sound rather
                common place and one dimensional! Christians
                have more and much better "stories" and they
                pray and dream of Jesus! No, these aren't ECK
                Masters tricking them or in disguise... remember
                the Law of Non-Interference! Unless, Klemp's
                "ECK Masters" are really "KAL Masters" Who are
                permitted to bend the Spiritual Laws on the
                Lower Planes!

                BTW- Thanks Liz, for posting the tinturl
                for Confessions.

                Prometheus
                http://tinyurl.com/589tcr

                Elizabeth wrote:

                Try this link to Ford's book

                http://tinyurl.com/589tcr

                To do this yourself go to this link

                http://tinyurl.com/

                Liz
              • drubezarne
                Prometheus and Mish Thanks for letting me know about your backgrounds. I don t know how others participate here. If there are more group members, maybe they
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 31, 2008
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                  Prometheus and Mish

                  Thanks for letting me know about your backgrounds. I don't know how
                  others participate here. If there are more group members, maybe they
                  would also share their experiences.

                  Prometheus, I'll try to answer your questions. I'm in a precarious
                  position. My wife is still an eckist and believes all the malarky from
                  Harold Klemp. We've had quite a few arguments about all of this.

                  When I throw out some questions about Twitchell's plagiarism, Klemp's
                  behavior and ill-tempered words, I see the response from other
                  Eckankar members and it just puzzles me. It's as if they immediately
                  begin to circle the wagons. Despite their literature warning against
                  anger and vanity, they indulge in it without any hesitation. I've had
                  people get mad at me when all I did was just state some simple facts
                  and showed them some of Klemp's quotes. I'm starting to believe that
                  some of them would even go so far as to kill in order to defend their
                  leader.

                  All of this shows real cult behavior. When I tried to upload Ford's
                  pdf book to Hu-chat, they banned me and sent me a really strange
                  e-mail. I'll put it at the end of this post and I think you will see
                  for yourself the delusional and egocentric voice of an Eckankar follower.

                  The reason I didn't quit the Satsang was because I felt conflicted. I
                  had made a commitment to teach it many months ago and I didn't feel
                  right going back on my word. So, I thought I could gently persuade the
                  class members not to worship Klemp, but rather think for themselves. I
                  point out certain parts of Klemp's writings and try to show them
                  what's behind them.That's why I gave them copies of Julian Johnson's
                  book The Path of the Masters. By the way, I think Julian Johnson put
                  way too much emphasis on a Master. To me Masters are just teachers not
                  magical beings.

                  I stopped going to worship services, seminars, and HI retreats a long
                  time ago. They no longer held any spiritual sustenance. It was just
                  mindless babble repeated over and over again.

                  Did you know about the latest mind control method being promoted by
                  Eckankar? Joan Klemp wrote an article in the June 2008 Mystic World
                  asking members to purchase the latest image of Klemp's portrait
                  closely cropped to show his eyes. They are then encouraged to stare
                  into the portrait's eyes for an extended period of time to ... and I
                  quote her, "heal, give spiritual aid, and upliftment, or remove karmic
                  burdens".

                  I'm interested in hearing from some of you about this latest effort by
                  Klemp and his wife.

                  Well, enough rambling. Here's the e-mail I got from the Hu-chat
                  moderator. At the very least it's good for a laugh.

                  Best
                  Liška V Drubezárne

                  ......................................................................
                  Letter from Stephen...

                  Dear Liska,

                  I stand with you at a crossroads of consciousness and ask only that my
                  words may serve you in the name of the Great Sugmad, the Divine ECK
                  and the Eternal Mahanta. Face to face, eyes to eyes and heart to heart
                  I gaze into the depths of your being and know that my Beloved WahZ
                  will fill my words with his thoughts, my thoughts with his words and
                  my heart with all the Divine Love it can contain in this moment that I
                  might humbly share it with you.

                  Your words are like those of a child who asks "Daddy, why can't I?
                  Daddy, it makes no sense to me. Daddy, it won't hurt anyone. Daddy,
                  why? Petulant and naively certain, you fail to grasp the consequences
                  of your actions both to yourself and others. Yet, I am of the
                  gatekeepers of the High Worlds of God and faced with the
                  responsibility of acting with kindness and compassion that I might
                  embrace the rhythm that perhaps opens your heart rather than closes it.

                  You see, Liska, the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, Sri Harold Klemp,
                  loves you as his inner form of WahZ and as his outer form of Sri
                  Harold Klemp. In like manner, he loves Ford Johnson as well. Yet, does
                  Ford return this love or does he, like a lover seemingly scorned, find
                  illusory solace in the clutches of blame and degradation all in the
                  guise of his intellectual pursuit of truth.

                  You see, I know Ford as do others who stood with him in the same
                  Circle of Initiation. We watched this being attempt to embrace the
                  teachings of the Great Vairagi ECK Adepts with his wonderfully
                  developed mental body. We watched him begin the transformation from
                  one who represented the Mahanta to one who represented himself. We
                  watched his on the stage and in person as he demonstrated "the more
                  than you" factor that left audiences with the memory of his greatness
                  and uniqueness and not that of the wondrous relationship of the
                  Mahanta with them.

                  We were the knowing ones who patiently and unconditionally loved our
                  Brother, accepted him for who he is and surrendered each perception to
                  Divine Spirit, ever seeing him as Soul even when the transparency of
                  his mental approach to the teachings of ECK within Eckankar were so
                  puzzlingly evident to us. Like many who have turned from the House of
                  the Mahanta, Ford is oblivious to his having done so, believing in his
                  mind that its subtle protestations about the reality of this teaching
                  is the frame of reference against which he judges it.

                  Ford Johnson is a wonderful being, one who has chosen to continue his
                  exploration of the Lower Worlds and to do so without accepting the
                  Mahanta's great Love as the sum and substance of his being. He cannot
                  now fathom the great secret that there is no difference between the
                  Inner Master and the Outer Master and that his rejection of the Outer
                  Master is his rejection of the Inner Master. Yet, this Soul, whose
                  book seems to fascinate you, is not content with simply turning
                  himself from the Mahanta, but feels compelled to bring his personal
                  viewpoint, his compulsive identification with it as "the reality" and
                  insure that all who are as he has concluded "manipulated and deluded"
                  by the premises upon which the teachings of the Godman, Sri Harold
                  Klemp, are built, are "saved" by him and his book.

                  Ford was a Higher Initiate, empowered with spiritual responsibilities
                  and given great gifts of consciousness so that he might serve as a
                  Coworker with the Great Mahanta, WahZ. He evidenced, as you, a lack of
                  discernment in his reaction to things and his choices both for
                  himself, which is fine, and for others, which is not. He wrote to Sri
                  Harold Klemp of a Second Initiate in the UK whom Ford believed was now
                  the true Mahanta. Ford was disturbed by Sri Harold's response that he
                  take a year off from his spiritual responsibilities and read the
                  Shariyats. Unaware of the profound blessing of direct communication
                  from this great Vairagi ECK Master, Ford was unable to open his heart
                  in gratitude but instead gauged the gift according to his mind.

                  You ask me why dear one and I now respond. Go within the temple of
                  your being and there humbly sing your word or the HU and ask to
                  understand these words. Do not bring your opinion to the inner sanctum
                  of your being or your mental craving for truth, for it will elude the
                  mind at every turn and leave you only with your own concept of it, as
                  it did Ford Johnson. You who desire truth, bend before its
                  responsibility and thus humbled by its majesty, observe it as
                  yourself. For, you must become the truth you seek and cannot find it
                  between the covers of any book written by another, even the Godman.

                  Do not ask me to assist you in casting shadows upon the great Light of
                  the Mahanta. If there is turmoil within your world and you desire to
                  give your precious attention to the confusion of another, Ford
                  Johnson, then do so with my blessings as that is of your concern
                  alone. Yet, you will not do so on this forum for that is my
                  responsibility. If you choose to struggle with truth, with the reality
                  of the Mahanta and to allow Ford Johnson's illusions to enter into
                  your house of consciousness, you are free to do so. Yet, I will not
                  support this and have no desire to examine it as I have met the
                  Vairagi Masters, traveled consciously to the Golden Wisdom Temples and
                  come to know the reality of all that exists as my own truth.

                  Do you see Liska, it is not necessary for one who drinks the Holy
                  Water and quenches his thirst through experience, to wander aimlessly
                  within the concepts of another who is no longer aware that he is even
                  thirsty. Remember, you who are loved by the Mahanta, that it is this
                  love for which you truly seek. Do not place your concepts of It as
                  prison bars upon Its limitless and eternal nature, for in doing so, as
                  with Ford, it is you who become imprisoned. In conclusion and in the
                  finality of my time and attention given to this subject, why would I
                  or any other student of WahZ seek to explore the confused ramblings of
                  one whose mind emerged victorious in his conflict this lifetime
                  between it and himself as Soul.

                  I wish you well Liska. No one has banned you from this forum. Yet,
                  until you demonstrate Viveka, you will remain on moderated status, as
                  is everyone who first joins this forum. I have given you a great gift.
                  Do with it as you will. Whatever choice you make, you are never apart
                  from the love of this being whom Ford rejects. It is as always, your
                  choice to accept or reject this love so unconditionally given by the
                  Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, Sri Harold Klemp.

                  Go with the Love of the Sugmad, the ECK and the Mahanta.

                  Stephen
                • Elizabeth
                  Hi Liska, and welcome to the group! I see the famous Dr. Stephen Brown (the mental giant, wind bag) has attempted to grace you with his intelligence! LOL
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 31, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Liska, and welcome to the group!
                     
                    I see the famous Dr. Stephen Brown (the mental giant, wind bag) has attempted to grace you with his intelligence!  LOL
                    Don't be too perplexed or give him more of your time... You won't accomplish anything but more drivel such as the below.  Even eckists get tired of his mental dialog!  He is basically looking at himself in the mirror, and only his reflection is impressed with him!
                     
                    Liz
                    --------------------------------------------
                     
                    Well, enough rambling. Here's the e-mail I got from the Hu-chat
                    moderator. At the very least it's good for a laugh.
                     
                    Best
                    Liška V Drubezárne
                     
                    ......................................................................
                    Letter from Stephen...
                     
                    Dear Liska,
                     
                    I stand with you at a crossroads of consciousness and ask only that my
                    words may serve you in the name of the Great Sugmad, the Divine ECK
                    and the Eternal Mahanta. Face to face, eyes to eyes and heart to heart
                    I gaze into the depths of your being and know that my Beloved WahZ
                    will fill my words with his thoughts, my thoughts with his words and
                    my heart with all the Divine Love it can contain in this moment that I
                    might humbly share it with you.
                     
                    Your words are like those of a child who asks "Daddy, why can't I?
                    Daddy, it makes no sense to me. Daddy, it won't hurt anyone. Daddy,
                    why? Petulant and naively certain, you fail to grasp the consequences
                    of your actions both to yourself and others. Yet, I am of the
                    gatekeepers of the High Worlds of God and faced with the
                    responsibility of acting with kindness and compassion that I might
                    embrace the rhythm that perhaps opens your heart rather than closes it.
                     
                    You see, Liska, the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, Sri Harold Klemp,
                    loves you as his inner form of WahZ and as his outer form of Sri
                    Harold Klemp. In like manner, he loves Ford Johnson as well. Yet, does
                    Ford return this love or does he, like a lover seemingly scorned, find
                    illusory solace in the clutches of blame and degradation all in the
                    guise of his intellectual pursuit of truth.
                     
                    You see, I know Ford as do others who stood with him in the same
                    Circle of Initiation. We watched this being attempt to embrace the
                    teachings of the Great Vairagi ECK Adepts with his wonderfully
                    developed mental body. We watched him begin the transformation from
                    one who represented the Mahanta to one who represented himself. We
                    watched his on the stage and in person as he demonstrated "the more
                    than you" factor that left audiences with the memory of his greatness
                    and uniqueness and not that of the wondrous relationship of the
                    Mahanta with them.
                     
                    We were the knowing ones who patiently and unconditionally loved our
                    Brother, accepted him for who he is and surrendered each perception to
                    Divine Spirit, ever seeing him as Soul even when the transparency of
                    his mental approach to the teachings of ECK within Eckankar were so
                    puzzlingly evident to us. Like many who have turned from the House of
                    the Mahanta, Ford is oblivious to his having done so, believing in his
                    mind that its subtle protestations about the reality of this teaching
                    is the frame of reference against which he judges it.
                     
                    Ford Johnson is a wonderful being, one who has chosen to continue his
                    exploration of the Lower Worlds and to do so without accepting the
                    Mahanta's great Love as the sum and substance of his being. He cannot
                    now fathom the great secret that there is no difference between the
                    Inner Master and the Outer Master and that his rejection of the Outer
                    Master is his rejection of the Inner Master. Yet, this Soul, whose
                    book seems to fascinate you, is not content with simply turning
                    himself from the Mahanta, but feels compelled to bring his personal
                    viewpoint, his compulsive identification with it as "the reality" and
                    insure that all who are as he has concluded "manipulated and deluded"
                    by the premises upon which the teachings of the Godman, Sri Harold
                    Klemp, are built, are "saved" by him and his book.
                     
                    Ford was a Higher Initiate, empowered with spiritual responsibilities
                    and given great gifts of consciousness so that he might serve as a
                    Coworker with the Great Mahanta, WahZ. He evidenced, as you, a lack of
                    discernment in his reaction to things and his choices both for
                    himself, which is fine, and for others, which is not. He wrote to Sri
                    Harold Klemp of a Second Initiate in the UK whom Ford believed was now
                    the true Mahanta. Ford was disturbed by Sri Harold's response that he
                    take a year off from his spiritual responsibilities and read the
                    Shariyats. Unaware of the profound blessing of direct communication
                    from this great Vairagi ECK Master, Ford was unable to open his heart
                    in gratitude but instead gauged the gift according to his mind.
                     
                    You ask me why dear one and I now respond. Go within the temple of
                    your being and there humbly sing your word or the HU and ask to
                    understand these words. Do not bring your opinion to the inner sanctum
                    of your being or your mental craving for truth, for it will elude the
                    mind at every turn and leave you only with your own concept of it, as
                    it did Ford Johnson. You who desire truth, bend before its
                    responsibility and thus humbled by its majesty, observe it as
                    yourself. For, you must become the truth you seek and cannot find it
                    between the covers of any book written by another, even the Godman.
                     
                    Do not ask me to assist you in casting shadows upon the great Light of
                    the Mahanta. If there is turmoil within your world and you desire to
                    give your precious attention to the confusion of another, Ford
                    Johnson, then do so with my blessings as that is of your concern
                    alone. Yet, you will not do so on this forum for that is my
                    responsibility. If you choose to struggle with truth, with the reality
                    of the Mahanta and to allow Ford Johnson's illusions to enter into
                    your house of consciousness, you are free to do so. Yet, I will not
                    support this and have no desire to examine it as I have met  the
                    Vairagi Masters, traveled consciously to the Golden Wisdom Temples and
                    come to know the reality of all that exists as my own truth.
                     
                    Do you see Liska, it is not necessary for one who drinks the Holy
                    Water and quenches his thirst through experience, to wander aimlessly
                    within the concepts of another who is no longer aware that he is even
                    thirsty. Remember, you who are loved by the Mahanta, that it is this
                    love for which you truly seek. Do not place your concepts of It as
                    prison bars upon Its limitless and eternal nature, for in doing so, as
                    with Ford, it is you who become imprisoned. In conclusion and in the
                    finality of my time and attention given to this subject, why would I
                    or any other student of WahZ seek to explore the confused ramblings of
                    one whose mind emerged victorious in his conflict this lifetime
                    between it and himself as Soul.
                     
                    I wish you well Liska. No one has banned you from this forum. Yet,
                    until you demonstrate Viveka, you will remain on moderated status, as
                    is everyone who first joins this forum. I have given you a great gift.
                    Do with it as you will. Whatever choice you make, you are never apart
                    from the love of this being whom Ford rejects. It is as always, your
                    choice to accept or reject this love so unconditionally given by the
                    Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, Sri Harold Klemp.
                     
                    Go with the Love of the Sugmad, the ECK and the Mahanta.
                     
                    Stephen
                     
                     
                    ------------------------------------
                     
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                    <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                     
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                  • drubezarne
                    Hi Liz; That s a very apt and funny description of Stephen - the mental giant windbag . I was tempted to thank him for saving me from the clutches of the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 31, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Liz;

                      That's a very apt and funny description of Stephen - "the mental giant
                      windbag". I was tempted to thank him for "saving" me from the clutches
                      of the Kal, but why encourage him.

                      Best
                      Liška

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
                      <ewickings@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Liska, and welcome to the group!
                      >
                      > I see the famous Dr. Stephen Brown (the mental giant, wind bag) has
                      > attempted to grace you with his intelligence! LOL
                      > Don't be too perplexed or give him more of your time... You won't
                      accomplish
                      > anything but more drivel such as the below. Even eckists get tired
                      of his
                      > mental dialog! He is basically looking at himself in the mirror,
                      and only
                      > his reflection is impressed with him!
                      >
                      > Liz
                      > --------------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Well, enough rambling. Here's the e-mail I got from the Hu-chat
                      > moderator. At the very least it's good for a laugh.
                      >
                      > Best
                      > Liška V Drubezárne
                      >
                      > ......................................................................
                      > Letter from Stephen...
                      >
                      > Dear Liska,
                      >
                      > I stand with you at a crossroads of consciousness and ask only that my
                      > words may serve you in the name of the Great Sugmad, the Divine ECK
                      > and the Eternal Mahanta. Face to face, eyes to eyes and heart to heart
                      > I gaze into the depths of your being and know that my Beloved WahZ
                      > will fill my words with his thoughts, my thoughts with his words and
                      > my heart with all the Divine Love it can contain in this moment that I
                      > might humbly share it with you...

                      > Stephen
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                    • prometheus_973
                      Hi All, I know Steve! I used to buy a liquid potassium K supplement from him... it was nasty! Later, Klemp put a stop to him and others selling their wares
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 31, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi All,
                        I know Steve! I used to buy a liquid potassium
                        "K" supplement from him... it was nasty! Later,
                        Klemp put a stop to him and others selling
                        their wares at seminars and EK Centers.

                        These Eckists weren't supposed to be counting
                        on other Eckists in order to eek out a living.
                        That's Klemp's area of expertise in order
                        to sell his books! After all, Klemp gets 50%
                        royalties on all of his books even though
                        most are filled with the stories of his chelas!

                        I'll have to say that Steve writes much better
                        than he speaks or appears in person! I wonder
                        if SB thinks that he might be standing in line
                        to take Klemp's place someday? He's delusional
                        and arrogant enough to strut around and act
                        the part... kind of like a taller version of
                        former Eckist JOHN-ROGER (Hinkle) of MSIA
                        fame! LOL!

                        BTW, I think that that Steve's letter is actually
                        a "Form Letter" that he worked weeks upon and
                        designed several years ago. He'll tweak it to
                        fit the individual (Eckist or non-Eckist) or the
                        situation.

                        Prometheus

                        p.s. Here it is again for Confessions of a God Seeker:
                        http://tinyurl.com/589tcr

                        drubezarne wrote:
                        >
                        Hi Liz;
                        >
                        That's a very apt and funny description of Stephen -
                        "the mental giant windbag". I was tempted to thank
                        him for "saving" me from the clutches of the Kal, but
                        why encourage him.
                        >
                        Best
                        Liška
                        >
                        Elizabeth wrote:
                        > >
                        Hi Liska, and welcome to the group!
                        > >
                        I see the famous Dr. Stephen Brown (the mental giant,
                        wind bag) has attempted to grace you with his intelligence!
                        LOL
                        > >
                        Don't be too perplexed or give him more of your time...
                        You won't accomplish anything but more drivel such as
                        the below. Even eckists get tired of his mental dialog!
                        He is basically looking at himself in the mirror, and only
                        his reflection is impressed with him!
                        > >
                        Liz
                        --------------------------------------------
                        > >
                        Well, enough rambling. Here's the e-mail I got from the Hu-chat
                        moderator. At the very least it's good for a laugh.
                        > >
                        Best
                        Liška V Drubezárne
                        > >
                        ......................................................................
                        Letter from Stephen...
                        Here's the e-mail I got from the Hu-chat
                        moderator. At the very least it's good for a laugh.

                        Dear Liska,

                        I stand with you at a crossroads of consciousness and ask only that my
                        words may serve you in the name of the Great Sugmad, the Divine ECK
                        and the Eternal Mahanta. Face to face, eyes to eyes and heart to heart
                        I gaze into the depths of your being and know that my Beloved WahZ
                        will fill my words with his thoughts, my thoughts with his words and
                        my heart with all the Divine Love it can contain in this moment that I
                        might humbly share it with you.

                        Your words are like those of a child who asks "Daddy, why can't I?
                        Daddy, it makes no sense to me. Daddy, it won't hurt anyone. Daddy,
                        why? Petulant and naively certain, you fail to grasp the consequences
                        of your actions both to yourself and others. Yet, I am of the
                        gatekeepers of the High Worlds of God and faced with the
                        responsibility of acting with kindness and compassion that I might
                        embrace the rhythm that perhaps opens your heart rather than closes it.

                        You see, Liska, the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, Sri Harold Klemp,
                        loves you as his inner form of WahZ and as his outer form of Sri
                        Harold Klemp. In like manner, he loves Ford Johnson as well. Yet, does
                        Ford return this love or does he, like a lover seemingly scorned, find
                        illusory solace in the clutches of blame and degradation all in the
                        guise of his intellectual pursuit of truth.

                        You see, I know Ford as do others who stood with him in the same
                        Circle of Initiation. We watched this being attempt to embrace the
                        teachings of the Great Vairagi ECK Adepts with his wonderfully
                        developed mental body. We watched him begin the transformation from
                        one who represented the Mahanta to one who represented himself. We
                        watched his on the stage and in person as he demonstrated "the more
                        than you" factor that left audiences with the memory of his greatness
                        and uniqueness and not that of the wondrous relationship of the
                        Mahanta with them.

                        We were the knowing ones who patiently and unconditionally loved our
                        Brother, accepted him for who he is and surrendered each perception to
                        Divine Spirit, ever seeing him as Soul even when the transparency of
                        his mental approach to the teachings of ECK within Eckankar were so
                        puzzlingly evident to us. Like many who have turned from the House of
                        the Mahanta, Ford is oblivious to his having done so, believing in his
                        mind that its subtle protestations about the reality of this teaching
                        is the frame of reference against which he judges it.

                        Ford Johnson is a wonderful being, one who has chosen to continue his
                        exploration of the Lower Worlds and to do so without accepting the
                        Mahanta's great Love as the sum and substance of his being. He cannot
                        now fathom the great secret that there is no difference between the
                        Inner Master and the Outer Master and that his rejection of the Outer
                        Master is his rejection of the Inner Master. Yet, this Soul, whose
                        book seems to fascinate you, is not content with simply turning
                        himself from the Mahanta, but feels compelled to bring his personal
                        viewpoint, his compulsive identification with it as "the reality" and
                        insure that all who are as he has concluded "manipulated and deluded"
                        by the premises upon which the teachings of the Godman, Sri Harold
                        Klemp, are built, are "saved" by him and his book.

                        Ford was a Higher Initiate, empowered with spiritual responsibilities
                        and given great gifts of consciousness so that he might serve as a
                        Coworker with the Great Mahanta, WahZ. He evidenced, as you, a lack of
                        discernment in his reaction to things and his choices both for
                        himself, which is fine, and for others, which is not. He wrote to Sri
                        Harold Klemp of a Second Initiate in the UK whom Ford believed was now
                        the true Mahanta. Ford was disturbed by Sri Harold's response that he
                        take a year off from his spiritual responsibilities and read the
                        Shariyats. Unaware of the profound blessing of direct communication
                        from this great Vairagi ECK Master, Ford was unable to open his heart
                        in gratitude but instead gauged the gift according to his mind.

                        You ask me why dear one and I now respond. Go within the temple of
                        your being and there humbly sing your word or the HU and ask to
                        understand these words. Do not bring your opinion to the inner sanctum
                        of your being or your mental craving for truth, for it will elude the
                        mind at every turn and leave you only with your own concept of it, as
                        it did Ford Johnson. You who desire truth, bend before its
                        responsibility and thus humbled by its majesty, observe it as
                        yourself. For, you must become the truth you seek and cannot find it
                        between the covers of any book written by another, even the Godman.

                        Do not ask me to assist you in casting shadows upon the great Light of
                        the Mahanta. If there is turmoil within your world and you desire to
                        give your precious attention to the confusion of another, Ford
                        Johnson, then do so with my blessings as that is of your concern
                        alone. Yet, you will not do so on this forum for that is my
                        responsibility. If you choose to struggle with truth, with the reality
                        of the Mahanta and to allow Ford Johnson's illusions to enter into
                        your house of consciousness, you are free to do so. Yet, I will not
                        support this and have no desire to examine it as I have met the
                        Vairagi Masters, traveled consciously to the Golden Wisdom Temples and
                        come to know the reality of all that exists as my own truth.

                        Do you see Liska, it is not necessary for one who drinks the Holy
                        Water and quenches his thirst through experience, to wander aimlessly
                        within the concepts of another who is no longer aware that he is even
                        thirsty. Remember, you who are loved by the Mahanta, that it is this
                        love for which you truly seek. Do not place your concepts of It as
                        prison bars upon Its limitless and eternal nature, for in doing so, as
                        with Ford, it is you who become imprisoned. In conclusion and in the
                        finality of my time and attention given to this subject, why would I
                        or any other student of WahZ seek to explore the confused ramblings of
                        one whose mind emerged victorious in his conflict this lifetime
                        between it and himself as Soul.

                        I wish you well Liska. No one has banned you from this forum. Yet,
                        until you demonstrate Viveka, you will remain on moderated status, as
                        is everyone who first joins this forum. I have given you a great gift.
                        Do with it as you will. Whatever choice you make, you are never apart
                        from the love of this being whom Ford rejects. It is as always, your
                        choice to accept or reject this love so unconditionally given by the
                        Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, Sri Harold Klemp.

                        Go with the Love of the Sugmad, the ECK and the Mahanta.

                        Stephen (the humble)

                        WOW! What Bull Shit!!!
                      • mishmisha9
                        Liska, thank you for sharing your strange email from Stephen Brown, a self-proclaimed I am of the gatekeepers of the High Worlds of God and verbose
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 1, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Liska, thank you for sharing your "strange email" from
                          Stephen Brown, a self-proclaimed "I am of the gatekeepers of the
                          High Worlds of God" and verbose Moderator of HuChat (?). I
                          question Stephen Brown's moderator status on HuChat because
                          in a recent SOP, here is the list of moderators:

                          "9.3 Your elected moderators for the year beginning May 21st, 2008
                          and ending May 14th, 2009, are:

                          Paula J.
                          Dorothea
                          Niels-Jul Yrvin"

                          Perhaps, these 3 are moderators in name only? Or maybe Stephen
                          Brown is just being more delusional in thinking he is a moderator! LOL!

                          Regardless, his email certainly does show how nutty and delusional these
                          eckists are becoming. The brain-washing technique that Joan wrote about
                          in the June Mystic World, the gaze of the master, is still another recent
                          example of Klemp's attempts at mind control and brain washing, not to
                          mention having the chelas spend money on the picture--more revenue.
                          Klemp's book, "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is full of mind control/brain
                          washing techniques as well.

                          And when there are self-appointed guardians of the gate like Stephen
                          Brown, one can easily see why eckankar fits the definition of a cult. Stephen
                          Brown having spent most of his adult life as an eck cult member proves how
                          damaging eckankar is--he is as you stated a prime example of a "delusional
                          and egocentric voice" that has drifted way out into looney tunes land. Good
                          for a laugh for sure, but also too bad, so sad as a wasted life in this lifetime!

                          BTW, notice also how Stephen Brown professes a love for Liska while insulting
                          Liska, calling him a child, interferes by telling Liska what to do, and arrogantly
                          states he Stephen Brown has given Liska "a great gift." Stephen Brown is an
                          excellent example of a delusional mind at its finest moment. It must have been
                          a long journey to reach this sad state of unawareness? Or was he nutty from
                          the beginning? One has to wonder. But we who have been members of eckankar
                          have been witness to much craziness, filtering down from Klemp and through
                          the masses of his faithful chelas! I think these crazed individuals could be
                          dangerous not only to themselves but to others as well. Stephen Brown is just
                          one of many lost souls who got hooked up in the eckankar cult. Many of these
                          long timers are too lost to be saved and I'm truly sorry for that. But anyone
                          considering joining the eckankar cult needs to really think about this--hopefully,
                          reading Stephen Brown's crazy email will be good enough to scare many away
                          and therefore Stephen Brown truly has given the world a "gift!" As well as a
                          good laugh! LOL!

                          Thanks again Liska for sharing this!

                          Mish

                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "drubezarne" <drubezarne@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Prometheus and Mish
                          >
                          > Thanks for letting me know about your backgrounds. I don't know how
                          > others participate here. If there are more group members, maybe they
                          > would also share their experiences.
                          >
                          > Prometheus, I'll try to answer your questions. I'm in a precarious
                          > position. My wife is still an eckist and believes all the malarky from
                          > Harold Klemp. We've had quite a few arguments about all of this.
                          >
                          > When I throw out some questions about Twitchell's plagiarism, Klemp's
                          > behavior and ill-tempered words, I see the response from other
                          > Eckankar members and it just puzzles me. It's as if they immediately
                          > begin to circle the wagons. Despite their literature warning against
                          > anger and vanity, they indulge in it without any hesitation. I've had
                          > people get mad at me when all I did was just state some simple facts
                          > and showed them some of Klemp's quotes. I'm starting to believe that
                          > some of them would even go so far as to kill in order to defend their
                          > leader.
                          >
                          > All of this shows real cult behavior. When I tried to upload Ford's
                          > pdf book to Hu-chat, they banned me and sent me a really strange
                          > e-mail. I'll put it at the end of this post and I think you will see
                          > for yourself the delusional and egocentric voice of an Eckankar follower.
                          >
                          > The reason I didn't quit the Satsang was because I felt conflicted. I
                          > had made a commitment to teach it many months ago and I didn't feel
                          > right going back on my word. So, I thought I could gently persuade the
                          > class members not to worship Klemp, but rather think for themselves. I
                          > point out certain parts of Klemp's writings and try to show them
                          > what's behind them.That's why I gave them copies of Julian Johnson's
                          > book The Path of the Masters. By the way, I think Julian Johnson put
                          > way too much emphasis on a Master. To me Masters are just teachers not
                          > magical beings.
                          >
                          > I stopped going to worship services, seminars, and HI retreats a long
                          > time ago. They no longer held any spiritual sustenance. It was just
                          > mindless babble repeated over and over again.
                          >
                          > Did you know about the latest mind control method being promoted by
                          > Eckankar? Joan Klemp wrote an article in the June 2008 Mystic World
                          > asking members to purchase the latest image of Klemp's portrait
                          > closely cropped to show his eyes. They are then encouraged to stare
                          > into the portrait's eyes for an extended period of time to ... and I
                          > quote her, "heal, give spiritual aid, and upliftment, or remove karmic
                          > burdens".
                          >
                          > I'm interested in hearing from some of you about this latest effort by
                          > Klemp and his wife.
                          >
                          > Well, enough rambling. Here's the e-mail I got from the Hu-chat
                          > moderator. At the very least it's good for a laugh.
                          >
                          > Best
                          > Liška V Drubezárne
                          >
                          > ......................................................................
                          > Letter from Stephen...
                          >
                          > Dear Liska,
                          >
                          > I stand with you at a crossroads of consciousness and ask only that my
                          > words may serve you in the name of the Great Sugmad, the Divine ECK
                          > and the Eternal Mahanta. Face to face, eyes to eyes and heart to heart
                          > I gaze into the depths of your being and know that my Beloved WahZ
                          > will fill my words with his thoughts, my thoughts with his words and
                          > my heart with all the Divine Love it can contain in this moment that I
                          > might humbly share it with you.
                          >
                          > Your words are like those of a child who asks "Daddy, why can't I?
                          > Daddy, it makes no sense to me. Daddy, it won't hurt anyone. Daddy,
                          > why? Petulant and naively certain, you fail to grasp the consequences
                          > of your actions both to yourself and others. Yet, I am of the
                          > gatekeepers of the High Worlds of God and faced with the
                          > responsibility of acting with kindness and compassion that I might
                          > embrace the rhythm that perhaps opens your heart rather than closes it.
                          >
                          > You see, Liska, the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, Sri Harold Klemp,
                          > loves you as his inner form of WahZ and as his outer form of Sri
                          > Harold Klemp. In like manner, he loves Ford Johnson as well. Yet, does
                          > Ford return this love or does he, like a lover seemingly scorned, find
                          > illusory solace in the clutches of blame and degradation all in the
                          > guise of his intellectual pursuit of truth.
                          >
                          > You see, I know Ford as do others who stood with him in the same
                          > Circle of Initiation. We watched this being attempt to embrace the
                          > teachings of the Great Vairagi ECK Adepts with his wonderfully
                          > developed mental body. We watched him begin the transformation from
                          > one who represented the Mahanta to one who represented himself. We
                          > watched his on the stage and in person as he demonstrated "the more
                          > than you" factor that left audiences with the memory of his greatness
                          > and uniqueness and not that of the wondrous relationship of the
                          > Mahanta with them.
                          >
                          > We were the knowing ones who patiently and unconditionally loved our
                          > Brother, accepted him for who he is and surrendered each perception to
                          > Divine Spirit, ever seeing him as Soul even when the transparency of
                          > his mental approach to the teachings of ECK within Eckankar were so
                          > puzzlingly evident to us. Like many who have turned from the House of
                          > the Mahanta, Ford is oblivious to his having done so, believing in his
                          > mind that its subtle protestations about the reality of this teaching
                          > is the frame of reference against which he judges it.
                          >
                          > Ford Johnson is a wonderful being, one who has chosen to continue his
                          > exploration of the Lower Worlds and to do so without accepting the
                          > Mahanta's great Love as the sum and substance of his being. He cannot
                          > now fathom the great secret that there is no difference between the
                          > Inner Master and the Outer Master and that his rejection of the Outer
                          > Master is his rejection of the Inner Master. Yet, this Soul, whose
                          > book seems to fascinate you, is not content with simply turning
                          > himself from the Mahanta, but feels compelled to bring his personal
                          > viewpoint, his compulsive identification with it as "the reality" and
                          > insure that all who are as he has concluded "manipulated and deluded"
                          > by the premises upon which the teachings of the Godman, Sri Harold
                          > Klemp, are built, are "saved" by him and his book.
                          >
                          > Ford was a Higher Initiate, empowered with spiritual responsibilities
                          > and given great gifts of consciousness so that he might serve as a
                          > Coworker with the Great Mahanta, WahZ. He evidenced, as you, a lack of
                          > discernment in his reaction to things and his choices both for
                          > himself, which is fine, and for others, which is not. He wrote to Sri
                          > Harold Klemp of a Second Initiate in the UK whom Ford believed was now
                          > the true Mahanta. Ford was disturbed by Sri Harold's response that he
                          > take a year off from his spiritual responsibilities and read the
                          > Shariyats. Unaware of the profound blessing of direct communication
                          > from this great Vairagi ECK Master, Ford was unable to open his heart
                          > in gratitude but instead gauged the gift according to his mind.
                          >
                          > You ask me why dear one and I now respond. Go within the temple of
                          > your being and there humbly sing your word or the HU and ask to
                          > understand these words. Do not bring your opinion to the inner sanctum
                          > of your being or your mental craving for truth, for it will elude the
                          > mind at every turn and leave you only with your own concept of it, as
                          > it did Ford Johnson. You who desire truth, bend before its
                          > responsibility and thus humbled by its majesty, observe it as
                          > yourself. For, you must become the truth you seek and cannot find it
                          > between the covers of any book written by another, even the Godman.
                          >
                          > Do not ask me to assist you in casting shadows upon the great Light of
                          > the Mahanta. If there is turmoil within your world and you desire to
                          > give your precious attention to the confusion of another, Ford
                          > Johnson, then do so with my blessings as that is of your concern
                          > alone. Yet, you will not do so on this forum for that is my
                          > responsibility. If you choose to struggle with truth, with the reality
                          > of the Mahanta and to allow Ford Johnson's illusions to enter into
                          > your house of consciousness, you are free to do so. Yet, I will not
                          > support this and have no desire to examine it as I have met the
                          > Vairagi Masters, traveled consciously to the Golden Wisdom Temples and
                          > come to know the reality of all that exists as my own truth.
                          >
                          > Do you see Liska, it is not necessary for one who drinks the Holy
                          > Water and quenches his thirst through experience, to wander aimlessly
                          > within the concepts of another who is no longer aware that he is even
                          > thirsty. Remember, you who are loved by the Mahanta, that it is this
                          > love for which you truly seek. Do not place your concepts of It as
                          > prison bars upon Its limitless and eternal nature, for in doing so, as
                          > with Ford, it is you who become imprisoned. In conclusion and in the
                          > finality of my time and attention given to this subject, why would I
                          > or any other student of WahZ seek to explore the confused ramblings of
                          > one whose mind emerged victorious in his conflict this lifetime
                          > between it and himself as Soul.
                          >
                          > I wish you well Liska. No one has banned you from this forum. Yet,
                          > until you demonstrate Viveka, you will remain on moderated status, as
                          > is everyone who first joins this forum. I have given you a great gift.
                          > Do with it as you will. Whatever choice you make, you are never apart
                          > from the love of this being whom Ford rejects. It is as always, your
                          > choice to accept or reject this love so unconditionally given by the
                          > Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, Sri Harold Klemp.
                          >
                          > Go with the Love of the Sugmad, the ECK and the Mahanta.
                          >
                          > Stephen
                          >
                        • prometheus_973
                          Hi Mish and All, Doc (Not a M.D.) Brown s comments are both humorous and sad. It seems he s almost always been involved with the multi-level marketing (Km)
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 1, 2008
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                            Hi Mish and All,
                            Doc (Not a M.D.) Brown's comments are both
                            humorous and sad. It seems he's almost always
                            been involved with the multi-level marketing (Km)
                            thing, as well as, the EK multi-initiation level,
                            hierarchical, chicken (henhouse) pecking order.

                            It's quite common for longtime 7th Initiates
                            (like Steve) to rationalize about their "inner"
                            status. However, I believe that in Lesson 3
                            of the Master 4 Discourse that it states the
                            Ninth Initiation has Three Stages with the
                            3rd and Final Stage being the "outer" confirmation
                            (pink slip). Steve hasn't even completed the
                            Final Stage for the 8th Initiation and yet he
                            claims to be a "GATEKEEPER" for the SUGMAD!

                            I looked at Chapter 12 (Circles of ECK Initiations)
                            in the Shariyat 2 and saw this quote for the 7th
                            Initiation:

                            "He now has the right to choose whether he will
                            pursue the rest of the way on the path of Eckankar.

                            There are FIVE MORE INITIATIONS for him to take
                            BEFORE entering into the TRUE CIRCLE of ADEPTS
                            who are the Brotherhood of the Ancient Order
                            of the Vairagi."

                            So, 7 plus 5 = 12!

                            Therefore, the Holy Scripture of Eckankar states
                            that an ECKist must be a 12th Initiate "BEFORE
                            ENTERING INTO THE TRUE CIRCLE OF ADEPTS
                            WHO ARE THE BROTHERHOOD [of Just men]
                            OF THE ANCIENT ORDER OF THE VAIRAGI."

                            It does seem that ECKists have a problem with
                            doing the math and connecting the dots... like
                            Klemp does! Delusion breeds more delusion
                            (as above so below)!

                            More of my comments are added to the text below......

                            Prometheus

                            misha wrote:
                            >
                            Liska, thank you for sharing your "strange email" from
                            Stephen Brown, a self-proclaimed "I am of the gatekeepers
                            of the High Worlds of God" and verbose Moderator of HuChat(?).
                            I question Stephen Brown's moderator status on HuChat because
                            in a recent SOP, here is the list of moderators:
                            >
                            "9.3 Your elected moderators for the year beginning
                            May 21st, 2008 and ending May 14th, 2009, are:
                            >
                            > Paula J.
                            > Dorothea
                            > Niels-Jul Yrvin"
                            >
                            Perhaps, these 3 are moderators in name only? Or maybe
                            Stephen Brown is just being more delusional in thinking he
                            is a moderator! LOL!
                            >
                            Regardless, his email certainly does show how nutty and
                            delusional these eckists are becoming. The brain-washing
                            technique that Joan wrote about in the June Mystic World,
                            the gaze of the master, is still another recent example of
                            Klemp's attempts at mind control and brain washing, not
                            to mention having the chelas spend money on the picture--
                            more revenue.
                            *********************************************************
                            Message # 3530:

                            Klemp's Tiwaja (Divine Gaze) Doesn't Heal!

                            Klemp is selling pictures of his Glazed Gaze
                            (the Tiwaja). Why doesn't this "Divine" Gaze,
                            or the Outer Darshan Heal ECK Chelas and High
                            Initiates from their Health "troubles?"

                            I'm sure that some of these physically "troubled"
                            (sick) H.I. Staffers have seen and spoken to
                            Klemp at the ESC. One H.I. who recently died
                            of cancer was on the EK Board. He saw & spoke
                            to HK often. Why didn't HK's Tiwaja Heal him of
                            his cancer? I know, it was his karma... Catch-22!
                            But doesn't the 12/14th Plane LEM have power
                            over the 4th Plane God of all other religions (i.e.
                            Kal/Satan) and the Lords of Karma? Isn't a 7th
                            initiate above Karma anyway!?

                            The following definition for "TIWAJA" doesn't put
                            restrictions upon it nor does it have any other
                            disclaimers!

                            *HK: "Tiwaja. Also Tiwaga. The gaze of the Master
                            which Has The Power To Uplift and HEAL All Things;
                            one of the mighty acts of God granted to one who
                            becomes a CHANNEL for Spiritual Power." [EK Lexicon]

                            Hmmmm. Could it be that this is WHY Peter Skelsky
                            and Joan go to visit ESC Staffers in the hospital rather
                            than Klemp visiting them! If Klemp visited them and
                            gave them his Divine Gaze and they weren't Healed
                            then what would this say about Klemp's Divine Powers!
                            Catch-22!

                            Here's "A Seed For Contemplation" from Klemp's
                            "The Language of Soul" that he had posted on
                            Eckankar.org.

                            *HK: "The Holy Spirit often works through professional
                            medical people to help US out when WE're in Trouble.
                            After all, all Healing comes from Divine Spirit,
                            No Matter what It chooses as Its instrument."

                            However, Klemp as the LEM is the so-called Living
                            "Instrument" for those members of the Eckankar Religion!
                            Why doesn't HK Heal Chelas and H.I.s of cancer, etc....
                            because he can't... HK's a phony master! He's all Talk!
                            Gazing at Klemp's picture or one of Jesus or Buddha
                            has the same effect for the religious believer!

                            prometheus (also) wrote:

                            Klemp is now selling photos of his gaze!
                            It's called the Tiwaja, or Gaze of the Master.

                            The photo Klemp is selling of himself cuts off
                            his chin and half of his forehead and his left ear.
                            His skin is colorless and looks washed out and
                            grey! And, there is a blueish hue around the right
                            side of his head like an aura! HK's right eyelid droops,
                            he's wearing glasses, and his lips are cracked!

                            The 5X7 is $15.00 and the 8.5X10 is $25.00!

                            ECKists, I'm sure, will enjoy the hypnotic effect...
                            If they can just get past the cost and HK's goofy
                            smirk!

                            *********************************************************
                            Misha (continued):

                            Klemp's book, "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" is full
                            of mind control/brain washing techniques as well.
                            >
                            And when there are self-appointed guardians of the gate
                            like Stephen Brown, one can easily see why eckankar fits
                            the definition of a cult. Stephen Brown having spent most
                            of his adult life as an eck cult member proves how
                            damaging eckankar is--he is as you stated a prime example
                            of a "delusional and egocentric voice" that has drifted way
                            out into looney tunes land. Good for a laugh for sure, but
                            also too bad, so sad as a wasted life in this lifetime!
                            >
                            BTW, notice also how Stephen Brown professes a love
                            for Liska while insulting Liska, calling him a child, interferes
                            by telling Liska what to do, and arrogantly states he Stephen
                            Brown has given Liska "a great gift." Stephen Brown is an
                            excellent example of a delusional mind at its finest moment.
                            It must have been a long journey to reach this sad state
                            of unawareness? Or was he nutty from the beginning? One
                            has to wonder. But we who have been members of eckankar
                            have been witness to much craziness, filtering down from
                            Klemp and through the masses of his faithful chelas! I think
                            these crazed individuals could be dangerous not only to
                            themselves but to others as well. Stephen Brown is just
                            one of many lost souls who got hooked up in the eckankar
                            cult. Many of these long timers are too lost to be saved and
                            I'm truly sorry for that. But anyone considering joining the
                            eckankar cult needs to really think about this--hopefully,
                            reading Stephen Brown's crazy email will be good enough
                            to scare many away and therefore Stephen Brown truly has
                            given the world a "gift!" As well as a good laugh! LOL!
                            >
                            Thanks again Liska for sharing this!
                            >
                            Mish
                            >
                            .....................................................................

                            Prometheus: {MY CAPS & Bracked Comments}


                            Letter from StepHEN {from the EK HEN house}
                            "DEAR Liska,
                            > >
                            I stand WITH you at a crossroads of consciousness and
                            ask ONLY that MY WORDS may serve you in the name
                            of the Great Sugmad, the Divine ECK and the Eternal Mahanta.

                            {It's funny that Steve thinks that he has this authority}

                            Face to Face, Eyes to Eyes and Heart to Heart {No Soul to Soul?}
                            I GAZE into the depths of your being and KNOW that my Beloved
                            WahZ will fill my {2nd and 4th Plane} words with his {2nd and 4th
                            Plane} thoughts, my {lower plane} thoughts with his {lower plane}
                            words and my {black} heart with all the Divine Love {of KAL}
                            it can contain {or imagine} in this {delusional} moment that
                            I might {ever so} HUMBLY share it with you.
                            > >
                            Your words are like those of a child who asks "Daddy{o} ,
                            why can't I {be a free thinker}? {Why do you want me to say,
                            who's your} Daddy, it makes no sense to me. Daddy, it won't
                            hurt anyone {or anymore will it?}. Daddy, why {are you hurting
                            me}? PETULANT and NAIVELY certain, YOU FAIL to grasp the
                            consequences {TRUTH?} of your actions both to yourself and
                            others {this is for your own good!}.

                            Yet, I AM of the GATEKEEPERS of the High Worlds of God
                            and faced with the responsibility of ACTING with Kindness and
                            Compassion that I MIGHT embrace the rhythm that perhaps opens
                            your heart rather than closes it. Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah....."

                            {Me}: Notice that Steve states that he is a "Gatekeeper...
                            of God" and not of "SUGMAD." Perhaps, this is a Freudian
                            slip into Steve's unconscious mind and the real truth of
                            the matter. Steve, as does Klemp, serves the 2nd and 4th
                            Plane "GOD" who is the KAL or SATAN! No wonder, then,
                            that SB responded as he did!!! Steve and many other long-
                            time H.I.s have lost their balance, if they ever had much to
                            begin with! They have certainly been Distracted with Lower
                            Plane "Busy Work" and have lost their way from their original
                            goals (as Soul) when they first joined Eckankar. When Steve
                            and others first "joined" the EK Club it was called ASOST,
                            A Way of Life, and referred to as A Spiritual Path, etc. With
                            Klemp Eckankar became focused on being a Religion!

                            The Shariyat 2 in Chapter 12 states that 7ths are permitted
                            to leave Eckankar. So, why don't they? They can continue
                            their studies under the guidance the Silent Ones who are
                            beyond ALL Religious Dogma, Laws, Rules, Procedures
                            (guidelines), and who are in charge of the Sound Current,
                            etc. and are above the LEM/Mahanta and are the True Co-
                            Workers of the SUGMAD! See the definition for MAHAVAKYIS
                            on page 131 of the EK Lexicon.

                            The truth is that 7ths (and 8ths & 9ths) are attached to
                            their status (ego), friends, and power and are, also, attached
                            to fear. They don't want to leave because they can't stand
                            on their own two "spiritual" feet. They have become Co-
                            dependent and their "spiritual muscle" (as Soul) has atrophied!
                            Those with jobs at the ESC don't have any other place else
                            to go for employment and are caught in a Catch-22!

                            And, when one is doing multi-level marketing and depending
                            upon Eckists for their source of additional income this, too,
                            becomes another reason to "act" the part, to give the
                            appearance as a loyal and trusted "Gatekeeper," and to
                            retain their membership and rank in the pecking order
                            of the EK henhouse.
                          • Drew van Rijk
                            Oh gee, I think every Eckist on the continent was buying Km or Matol from yet another multi-level marketer..er Eckist I mean..LOL Reading the drivel from this
                            Message 13 of 13 , Aug 1, 2008
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                              Oh gee, I think every Eckist on the continent was buying Km or Matol from yet another multi-level marketer..er Eckist I mean..LOL
                              Reading the drivel from this Brown fellow, it reminds me of a long email I sent to David Lane once, I think I sounded too much like Dr. Brown when I think back. It is incredible to think how brain washed I was when I was in the clutches of Harold and his band of thieves.
                              I should mention the David Lane was ever so polite in his response, he knew at the time there was nothing he could do to undo the brainwashing himself.
                              I have given copies of Ford's book to the most brainwashed of Eckists I knew and they threw it out without opening a page, calling the book a test of faith from Harold and calling me a secret agent of the KAL, especially after leaving eckankar after 20 years and all those ridiculous initiations....
                              I was not able to hear what David Lane was saying to me, I needed to time to mature before the words of Lane took hold. They only did when Ford left eckankar for I like him a lot. This Brown fellow is the same, he will evolve and discover the truth, or he won't. The ego like to cling to the 'initiations' as a badge of honor, for some it will take more time than others to really learn to seek the truth, that is just their place on the evolutionary ladder

                              --- On Thu, 7/31/08, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HU CHAT Moderator - The ever so humble Dr. Brown!
                              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                              Received: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:34 PM

                              HU CHAT Moderator - The ever so humble Dr. Brown!

                              Hi All,
                              I know Steve! I used to buy a liquid potassium
                              "K" supplement from him... it was nasty! Later,
                              Klemp put a stop to him and others selling
                              their wares at seminars and EK Centers.

                              These Eckists weren't supposed to be counting
                              on other Eckists in order to eek out a living.
                              That's Klemp's area of expertise in order
                              to sell his books! After all, Klemp gets 50%
                              royalties on all of his books even though
                              most are filled with the stories of his chelas!

                              I'll have to say that Steve writes much better
                              than he speaks or appears in real life! I wonder
                              if he thinks that he might be standing in line
                              to take Klemp's place someday? He's delusional
                              and arrogant enough to strut around and act
                              the part... kind of like a taller version of John
                              Rogers Hinkle! LOL!

                              Prometheus

                              p.s. Here it is again for Confessions of a God Seeker:
                              http://tinyurl. com/589tcr

                              drubezarne wrote:
                              >
                              Hi Liz;
                              >
                              That's a very apt and funny description of Stephen -
                              "the mental giant windbag". I was tempted to thank
                              him for "saving" me from the clutches of the Kal, but
                              why encourage him.
                              >
                              Best
                              Liška
                              >
                              Elizabeth wrote:
                              > >
                              Hi Liska, and welcome to the group!
                              > >
                              I see the famous Dr. Stephen Brown (the mental giant,
                              wind bag) has attempted to grace you with his intelligence!
                              LOL
                              > >
                              Don't be too perplexed or give him more of your time...
                              You won't accomplish anything but more drivel such as
                              the below. Even eckists get tired of his mental dialog!
                              He is basically looking at himself in the mirror, and only
                              his reflection is impressed with him!
                              > >
                              Liz
                              ------------ --------- --------- --------- -----
                              > >
                              Well, enough rambling. Here's the e-mail I got from the Hu-chat
                              moderator. At the very least it's good for a laugh.
                              > >
                              Best
                              Liška V Drubezárne
                              > >
                              ............ ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ....
                              Letter from Stephen...
                              Here's the e-mail I got from the Hu-chat
                              moderator. At the very least it's good for a laugh.

                              Dear Liska,

                              I stand with you at a crossroads of consciousness and ask only that my
                              words may serve you in the name of the Great Sugmad, the Divine ECK
                              and the Eternal Mahanta. Face to face, eyes to eyes and heart to heart
                              I gaze into the depths of your being and know that my Beloved WahZ
                              will fill my words with his thoughts, my thoughts with his words and
                              my heart with all the Divine Love it can contain in this moment that I
                              might humbly share it with you.

                              Your words are like those of a child who asks "Daddy, why can't I?
                              Daddy, it makes no sense to me. Daddy, it won't hurt anyone. Daddy,
                              why? Petulant and naively certain, you fail to grasp the consequences
                              of your actions both to yourself and others. Yet, I am of the
                              gatekeepers of the High Worlds of God and faced with the
                              responsibility of acting with kindness and compassion that I might
                              embrace the rhythm that perhaps opens your heart rather than closes it.

                              You see, Liska, the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, Sri Harold Klemp,
                              loves you as his inner form of WahZ and as his outer form of Sri
                              Harold Klemp. In like manner, he loves Ford Johnson as well. Yet, does
                              Ford return this love or does he, like a lover seemingly scorned, find
                              illusory solace in the clutches of blame and degradation all in the
                              guise of his intellectual pursuit of truth.

                              You see, I know Ford as do others who stood with him in the same
                              Circle of Initiation. We watched this being attempt to embrace the
                              teachings of the Great Vairagi ECK Adepts with his wonderfully
                              developed mental body. We watched him begin the transformation from
                              one who represented the Mahanta to one who represented himself. We
                              watched his on the stage and in person as he demonstrated "the more
                              than you" factor that left audiences with the memory of his greatness
                              and uniqueness and not that of the wondrous relationship of the
                              Mahanta with them.

                              We were the knowing ones who patiently and unconditionally loved our
                              Brother, accepted him for who he is and surrendered each perception to
                              Divine Spirit, ever seeing him as Soul even when the transparency of
                              his mental approach to the teachings of ECK within Eckankar were so
                              puzzlingly evident to us. Like many who have turned from the House of
                              the Mahanta, Ford is oblivious to his having done so, believing in his
                              mind that its subtle protestations about the reality of this teaching
                              is the frame of reference against which he judges it.

                              Ford Johnson is a wonderful being, one who has chosen to continue his
                              exploration of the Lower Worlds and to do so without accepting the
                              Mahanta's great Love as the sum and substance of his being. He cannot
                              now fathom the great secret that there is no difference between the
                              Inner Master and the Outer Master and that his rejection of the Outer
                              Master is his rejection of the Inner Master. Yet, this Soul, whose
                              book seems to fascinate you, is not content with simply turning
                              himself from the Mahanta, but feels compelled to bring his personal
                              viewpoint, his compulsive identification with it as "the reality" and
                              insure that all who are as he has concluded "manipulated and deluded"
                              by the premises upon which the teachings of the Godman, Sri Harold
                              Klemp, are built, are "saved" by him and his book.

                              Ford was a Higher Initiate, empowered with spiritual responsibilities
                              and given great gifts of consciousness so that he might serve as a
                              Coworker with the Great Mahanta, WahZ. He evidenced, as you, a lack of
                              discernment in his reaction to things and his choices both for
                              himself, which is fine, and for others, which is not. He wrote to Sri
                              Harold Klemp of a Second Initiate in the UK whom Ford believed was now
                              the true Mahanta. Ford was disturbed by Sri Harold's response that he
                              take a year off from his spiritual responsibilities and read the
                              Shariyats. Unaware of the profound blessing of direct communication
                              from this great Vairagi ECK Master, Ford was unable to open his heart
                              in gratitude but instead gauged the gift according to his mind.

                              You ask me why dear one and I now respond. Go within the temple of
                              your being and there humbly sing your word or the HU and ask to
                              understand these words. Do not bring your opinion to the inner sanctum
                              of your being or your mental craving for truth, for it will elude the
                              mind at every turn and leave you only with your own concept of it, as
                              it did Ford Johnson. You who desire truth, bend before its
                              responsibility and thus humbled by its majesty, observe it as
                              yourself. For, you must become the truth you seek and cannot find it
                              between the covers of any book written by another, even the Godman.

                              Do not ask me to assist you in casting shadows upon the great Light of
                              the Mahanta. If there is turmoil within your world and you desire to
                              give your precious attention to the confusion of another, Ford
                              Johnson, then do so with my blessings as that is of your concern
                              alone. Yet, you will not do so on this forum for that is my
                              responsibility. If you choose to struggle with truth, with the reality
                              of the Mahanta and to allow Ford Johnson's illusions to enter into
                              your house of consciousness, you are free to do so. Yet, I will not
                              support this and have no desire to examine it as I have met the
                              Vairagi Masters, traveled consciously to the Golden Wisdom Temples and
                              come to know the reality of all that exists as my own truth.

                              Do you see Liska, it is not necessary for one who drinks the Holy
                              Water and quenches his thirst through experience, to wander aimlessly
                              within the concepts of another who is no longer aware that he is even
                              thirsty. Remember, you who are loved by the Mahanta, that it is this
                              love for which you truly seek. Do not place your concepts of It as
                              prison bars upon Its limitless and eternal nature, for in doing so, as
                              with Ford, it is you who become imprisoned. In conclusion and in the
                              finality of my time and attention given to this subject, why would I
                              or any other student of WahZ seek to explore the confused ramblings of
                              one whose mind emerged victorious in his conflict this lifetime
                              between it and himself as Soul.

                              I wish you well Liska. No one has banned you from this forum. Yet,
                              until you demonstrate Viveka, you will remain on moderated status, as
                              is everyone who first joins this forum. I have given you a great gift.
                              Do with it as you will. Whatever choice you make, you are never apart
                              from the love of this being whom Ford rejects. It is as always, your
                              choice to accept or reject this love so unconditionally given by the
                              Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, Sri Harold Klemp.

                              Go with the Love of the Sugmad, the ECK and the Mahanta.

                              Stephen (the humble)

                              WOW! What Bull Shit!!!



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