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Re: Sri Kirpal Singh Talks of the Blue Light!

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  • prometheus_973
    Re: Sri Kirpal Singh Talks of the Blue Light! Hi Leanne, Actually, Kirpal was from the Radhasoami Beas sect (the same as Julian Johnson) until his Master died.
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 7, 2008
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      Re: Sri Kirpal Singh Talks of the Blue Light!

      Hi Leanne,
      Actually, Kirpal was from the Radhasoami Beas
      sect (the same as Julian Johnson) until his
      Master died. This is when another Master was
      chosen (other than Kirpal) to lead them.

      Kirpal and his followers then started the Ruhani
      Satsang sect. This is the way it usually works in
      India and is quite common.

      Therefore, for Twitchell to start his own
      Westernized sect of Ruhani due to disagreement
      with his Master (Kirpal) would not be seen as
      out-of-the-ordinary by other Sikhs or Hindus.

      Twitchell's problem was that he had a chip on
      his shoulder and needed to place himself above
      all other "Masters" by having a 500 year old fake
      Master (Rebazar) initiate him. Paul's Tiger's Fang
      embellishments were seen and pointed out to
      him by Kirpal and Twitchell didn't like it that
      his game was seen through! After all, how could
      Kirpal disprove what PT had claimed to experience.
      How dare he! However, Kirpal knew that Twitchell
      had a knack for exaggerations and the twisting
      of facts.

      Later, PT made himself into the Top Dog of
      all of them with the title and powers of Mahanta!
      After all, who can disprove PT's claims or that
      of anyone? Who could disprove that anyone was
      lying about "inner" mysteries and imaginations,
      especially, when there are witnesses to these
      appearances in their dreams. Of course, anyone
      could dream about anyone, but does that make
      them a "Master?" Only if they claimed to be!
      Jesus in his short time preformed many more
      miracles than these modern day Eckankar Mahantas!
      Why is that?


      Prometheus



      le_anne_wrote:
      >
      Kirpal is from rhadoshami(I spelled it phoneticllay)?
      I was tracing pauls teachers back and it got kind of
      convoluted when I got to India.
      >
      Leanne
      >
      prometheus wrote:

      > Twitchell's real Master, Kirpal, also talks of the
      > Master Power, the Master's Gift of Love, Grace,
      > Blessings, the inside/outside (inner/outer) , etc.
      >
      > Ruhani Satsang is the true origin of Eckankar.
      >
      > ECKists should do some of their own research
      > and check out the following sites:
      >
      > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/elixir.htm
      >
      > The next section speaks of the Blue Light, etc.
      >
      > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/drops.htm
      >
      > Here's some interesting info:
      >
      > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/ekonkar.htm
      >
      > Now these next sections are very interesting
      > because it talks about keeping a daily Diary.
      > It even has a printable form where one can keep
      > track of things for improvement. .. in order to
      > balance the outer in order to reach inner perfection.
      > A big issue is Lust and, therefore, the form helps
      > to track Chastity of Thoughts, Words, and Deeds!
      >
      > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/diary.htm
      >
      > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/gfx/new_ diary.gif
      >
      > Remember, "Mahanta" really means "monastery head."
      > [The Holy Science by Swami Sri Yukteswar, Introduction
      > pg. vi]
      >
      > Thus, Twitchell just did some "tweaking" to create his
      > own Western version (sect) of the Ruhani Satsang sect.
      > The only thing is that Twitchell was a liar, unqualified,
      > and Not anywhere close to being a 'Master." And, this
      > is the scam that was handed down by Paul's cohort,
      > Gail, to Darwin and then to Klemp!
      >
      > ECKists really need to do the research! And, ECKists
      > need to do a comparison between Kirpal and Klemp!
      > Read what Kirpal has to say and then compare this to
      > Klemp's simple-mined stories that have No spiritual
      > meat. Most ECKists can remember the story about the
      > Hundredth Monkey.... where is the spiritual meat when
      > this story is compared to Kirpal's conservations with his
      > chelas? Make the comparison.. . if you dare!
      >
      > Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, I found some more Kirpal Singh info that ECKists might want to look at in order to see where EK originated. It s very interesting and Kirpal gives
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 8, 2008
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        Hello All,
        I found some more Kirpal Singh info that ECKists
        might want to look at in order to see where EK
        originated. It's very interesting and Kirpal gives
        many more "spiritual" tips and guidance to his
        chelas than Klemp gives to his! It also shows
        where much of Twitchell's and Klemp's Eckankar
        dogma originated. Shouldn't ECKists look at the
        original source of their teachings rather than
        hearing it second hand, and by a counterfeit
        preacher/master like Klemp!


        SEVEN PATHS TO PERFECTION (The Five Cardinal Virtues)
        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/7paths.htm

        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/instruct.htm

        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/jj/japji.htm

        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/ondiary.htm

        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/ondiary-c.htm

        It's really interesting seeing all of this Ruhani/Eckankar
        info in this context. Other than the "tweaking" by
        Twit one can see that this is, basically, the same
        religious dogma!

        Prometheus

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Re: Sri Kirpal Singh Talks of the Blue Light!
        >
        > Hi Leanne,
        > Actually, Kirpal was from the Radhasoami Beas
        > sect (the same as Julian Johnson) until his
        > Master died. This is when another Master was
        > chosen (other than Kirpal) to lead them.
        >
        > Kirpal and his followers then started the Ruhani
        > Satsang sect. This is the way it usually works in
        > India and is quite common.
        >
        > Therefore, for Twitchell to start his own
        > Westernized sect of Ruhani due to disagreement
        > with his Master (Kirpal) would not be seen as
        > out-of-the-ordinary by other Sikhs or Hindus.
        >
        > Twitchell's problem was that he had a chip on
        > his shoulder and needed to place himself above
        > all other "Masters" by having a 500 year old fake
        > Master (Rebazar) initiate him. Paul's Tiger's Fang
        > embellishments were seen and pointed out to
        > him by Kirpal and Twitchell didn't like it that
        > his game was seen through! After all, how could
        > Kirpal disprove what PT had claimed to experience.
        > How dare he! However, Kirpal knew that Twitchell
        > had a knack for exaggerations and the twisting
        > of facts.
        >
        > Later, PT made himself into the Top Dog of
        > all of them with the title and powers of Mahanta!
        > After all, who can disprove PT's claims or that
        > of anyone? Who could disprove that anyone was
        > lying about "inner" mysteries and imaginations,
        > especially, when there are witnesses to these
        > appearances in their dreams. Of course, anyone
        > could dream about anyone, but does that make
        > them a "Master?" Only if they claimed to be!
        > Jesus in his short time preformed many more
        > miracles than these modern day Eckankar Mahantas!
        > Why is that?
        >
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        >
        > le_anne_wrote:
        > >
        > Kirpal is from rhadoshami(I spelled it phoneticllay)?
        > I was tracing pauls teachers back and it got kind of
        > convoluted when I got to India.
        > >
        > Leanne
        > >
        > prometheus wrote:
        >
        > > Twitchell's real Master, Kirpal, also talks of the
        > > Master Power, the Master's Gift of Love, Grace,
        > > Blessings, the inside/outside (inner/outer) , etc.
        > >
        > > Ruhani Satsang is the true origin of Eckankar.
        > >
        > > ECKists should do some of their own research
        > > and check out the following sites:
        > >
        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/elixir.htm
        > >
        > > The next section speaks of the Blue Light, etc.
        > >
        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/drops.htm
        > >
        > > Here's some interesting info:
        > >
        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/ekonkar.htm
        > >
        > > Now these next sections are very interesting
        > > because it talks about keeping a daily Diary.
        > > It even has a printable form where one can keep
        > > track of things for improvement. .. in order to
        > > balance the outer in order to reach inner perfection.
        > > A big issue is Lust and, therefore, the form helps
        > > to track Chastity of Thoughts, Words, and Deeds!
        > >
        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/diary.htm
        > >
        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/gfx/new_diary.gif
        > >
        > > Remember, "Mahanta" really means "monastery head."
        > > [The Holy Science by Swami Sri Yukteswar, Introduction
        > > pg. vi]
        > >
        > > Thus, Twitchell just did some "tweaking" to create his
        > > own Western version (sect) of the Ruhani Satsang sect.
        > > The only thing is that Twitchell was a liar, unqualified,
        > > and Not anywhere close to being a 'Master." And, this
        > > is the scam that was handed down by Paul's cohort,
        > > Gail, to Darwin and then to Klemp!
        > >
        > > ECKists really need to do the research! And, ECKists
        > > need to do a comparison between Kirpal and Klemp!
        > > Read what Kirpal has to say and then compare this to
        > > Klemp's simple-mined stories that have No spiritual
        > > meat. Most ECKists can remember the story about the
        > > Hundredth Monkey.... where is the spiritual meat when
        > > this story is compared to Kirpal's conservations with his
        > > chelas? Make the comparison.. . if you dare!
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        >
      • Torrey
        ... Hello folks, I was in Eckankar from 1968-79, so I witnessed a lot of how it evolved in the early days. When David Lane s expose came out, I had to see for
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 9, 2008
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          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ruhani Satsang is the true origin of Eckankar.
          >
          > Thus, Twitchell just did some "tweaking" to create his
          > own Western version (sect) of the Ruhani Satsang sect.

          Hello folks,
          I was in Eckankar from 1968-79, so I witnessed a lot of how it evolved
          in the early days. When David Lane's expose came out, I had to see
          for myself. I found copies of the Sant Mat books in used bookstores,
          and went over my Eck books and discourses line for line. And then
          looking at those copyrights from the 1930's...it was just beyond
          reasonable question that Paul had plagiarized this material to create
          Eckankar.

          I tried to connect with some of the authentic Sant Mat groups (Ruhani
          Sastang, Radhasoami, etc), but it was just too confusing and painful
          at the time. I had put absolute faith in Paul and then Darwin, only
          to realize I'd been played for a fool. What made it worse was knowing
          how many people I had drawn into their web, in my years as a fervent
          Eck disciple. I couldn't put my faith in another "Living Master",
          though I could sense the genuine sanctity of some of them, at least.

          Anyways, just to say I think you've got it exactly right. Paul
          borrowed from other sources - Theosophy, Scientology, Sufi mysticism -
          but the core of what came to be known as Eckankar was lifted straight
          out of Sant Mat.
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Torrey, Thank you! I enjoyed reading your post. Yes, the early Sant Mat connection to Eckankar via Twitchell is very clear when one opens their mind and
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 9, 2008
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            Hello Torrey,
            Thank you! I enjoyed reading your post.
            Yes, the early Sant Mat connection to
            Eckankar via Twitchell is very clear when
            one opens their mind and takes the time
            to look. Unfortunately, most ECKists don't
            have a clue of these origins.

            Many ECKists don't want to know the truth
            because they are as happy as clams living
            in the dark with their delusions.

            Why should they tear down their house of
            cards after all of these years, and lose the
            friendships they've developed, and those
            higher initiations so hard to come by. The
            EK habit can't be discarded so easily. What
            do ECKists have to replace Eckankar? It (life)
            can be scary without the dependence upon
            a "Master."

            BTW - Here's some more Kirpal Singh and
            Ruhani Satsang info:

            http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/letters.htm

            Check out the above link and the title on HUMILITY.

            When looking at the Virtue of Humility one has
            to ask, How can a "Master" be humble when he
            pays to be placed into "The International Who's
            Who of Intellectuals (ninth edition)" like Klemp has!
            Really, this is a Vain act and Not that of a Humble
            person let alone a "Master." Isn't Klemp supposed
            to be the "highest" spiritual vs mental example for
            ECKists to follow! Klemp did (as a Mahanta) what
            Twitchell did with "Who's Who" 20 years before
            being initiated by Kirpal! Besides, Klemp is more
            like G.W. when looking at his intellect!

            http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/receptiv.htm

            http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/books.htm#booklets

            http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/jj/title.htm#toc


            When reading Kirpal's words one can see a
            clear difference between him and Klemp.
            Klemp is more like a "New Age" version of G.W.!

            I really do hope ECKists will take the time to do
            the research and read some of these comments
            by Kirpal. It is very interesting! One can see
            where the Real Source of Twitchell's Research
            came from other than the "Astral Library" as
            Klemp has claimed!

            Prometheus

            prometheus wrote:
            > >
            Ruhani Satsang is the true origin of Eckankar.

            Thus, Twitchell just did some "tweaking" to create his
            own Western version (sect) of the Ruhani Satsang sect.

            Torrey wrote:

            Hello folks,
            I was in Eckankar from 1968-79, so I witnessed a lot
            of how it evolved in the early days. When David Lane's
            expose came out, I had to see for myself. I found copies
            of the Sant Mat books in used bookstores, and went over
            my Eck books and discourses line for line. And then looking
            at those copyrights from the 1930's...it was just beyond
            reasonable question that Paul had plagiarized this material
            to create Eckankar.

            I tried to connect with some of the authentic Sant Mat
            groups (Ruhani Sastang, Radhasoami, etc), but it was
            just too confusing and painful at the time. I had put
            absolute faith in Paul and then Darwin, only to realize
            I'd been played for a fool. What made it worse was
            knowing how many people I had drawn into their web,
            in my years as a fervent Eck disciple. I couldn't put
            my faith in another "Living Master", though I could
            sense the genuine sanctity of some of them, at least.

            Anyways, just to say I think you've got it exactly right.
            Paul borrowed from other sources - Theosophy, Scientology,
            Sufi mysticism - but the core of what came to be known
            as Eckankar was lifted straight out of Sant Mat.
          • prometheus_973
            This is just more proof that Kirpal and Not Rebazar was Twitchell s true Master and that the Ruhani Satsang teachings (with PT s added twist) became ECKANKAR.
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 10, 2008
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              This is just more proof that Kirpal and Not
              Rebazar was Twitchell's true Master and that
              the Ruhani Satsang teachings (with PT's added
              twist) became ECKANKAR.

              All Paul, basically, did was: change Kirpal
              to Rebazar; add the "Mahanta" title in 1969;
              add more Planes than Ruhani lists, along
              with a lineage of new and improved masters;
              Westernize and change the 5 Virtures listed
              in "The Path of the Masters" by Julian P. Johnson;
              exclude Chastity from the Virtures; eliminate
              the "mandatory" Vegetarian diet.

              Thus, PT's New Age Westernized sect of
              Ruhani Satsang became Eckankar.

              The following was spoken by Sri Kirpal Singh
              in 1956. Twitchell was initiated by Kirpal in
              1955. Does any of this sound familiar?

              http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/seeker.htm

              "VlIl. RUHANI SATSANG or Path of the Masters:
              The science of the living Masters is the most
              ancient and the most perfect science the world
              has ever seen, it is the most natural and the
              easiest to follow, and can be followed by men
              of all ages. Married life, avocation, caste and
              creed, social and religious beliefs, poverty or
              illiteracy, etc., are no bars. It is an inner
              science of the soul and consists in contacting
              the soul with the Oversoul, with the help and
              guidance of the spiritual adept, well versed in
              the theory and the practice of Para Vidya or the
              Science of the Beyond and capable of granting
              some first-hand spiritual experience at the very
              first sitting. Nothing is to be taken on trust or
              make-believe. Miracles, spiritual healings, psychic
              phenomena, fortune-telling, akashic records and
              worldly desires are all to be left aside, for these
              are positive hindrances on the Path. The entire
              energy is to be conserved for internal progress.

              Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all things
              shall be added unto you. This is the highest Truth
              that has been taught from hoary antiquity by sages
              and seers since the day of creation. It is unalterable
              and shall remain so. God, Godway, and Godman can
              never suffer any change and shall ever remain eternal."

              Here are some 1964 comments by Kirpal on Service:
              http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/service.htm

              Kirpal talks of Weeding & Pruning & Nuturing.
              He also talks of Service Before Self and about
              the Master's Mission. Remember this is 1964!

              Kirpal talks more about Love, Life, and Light!

              http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/jj/jj-intro3.htm#Without%20a

              http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/letters.htm

              Anyway, here's more for ECKists to check out
              and to research. There's no harm in researching
              Eckankar's origins is there? Or, do ECKists only
              read the edited and sanitized Klemp version
              of everything?

              Prometheus


              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Torrey,
              > Thank you! I enjoyed reading your post.
              > Yes, the early Sant Mat connection to
              > Eckankar via Twitchell is very clear when
              > one opens their mind and takes the time
              > to look. Unfortunately, most ECKists don't
              > have a clue of these origins.
              >
              > Many ECKists don't want to know the truth
              > because they are as happy as clams living
              > in the dark with their delusions.
              >
              > Why should they tear down their house of
              > cards after all of these years, and lose the
              > friendships they've developed, and those
              > higher initiations so hard to come by. The
              > EK habit can't be discarded so easily. What
              > do ECKists have to replace Eckankar? It (life)
              > can be scary without the dependence upon
              > a "Master."
              >
              > BTW - Here's some more Kirpal Singh and
              > Ruhani Satsang info:
              >
              > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/letters.htm
              >
              > Check out the above link and the title on HUMILITY.
              >
              > When looking at the Virtue of Humility one has
              > to ask, How can a "Master" be humble when he
              > pays to be placed into "The International Who's
              > Who of Intellectuals (ninth edition)" like Klemp has!
              > Really, this is a Vain act and Not that of a Humble
              > person let alone a "Master." Isn't Klemp supposed
              > to be the "highest" spiritual vs mental example for
              > ECKists to follow! Klemp did (as a Mahanta) what
              > Twitchell did with "Who's Who" 20 years before
              > being initiated by Kirpal! Besides, Klemp is more
              > like G.W. when looking at his intellect!
              >
              > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/receptiv.htm
              >
              > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/books.htm#booklets
              >
              > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/jj/title.htm#toc
              >
              >
              > When reading Kirpal's words one can see a
              > clear difference between him and Klemp.
              > Klemp is more like a "New Age" version of G.W.!
              >
              > I really do hope ECKists will take the time to do
              > the research and read some of these comments
              > by Kirpal. It is very interesting! One can see
              > where the Real Source of Twitchell's Research
              > came from other than the "Astral Library" as
              > Klemp has claimed!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > > >
              > Ruhani Satsang is the true origin of Eckankar.
              >
              > Thus, Twitchell just did some "tweaking" to create his
              > own Western version (sect) of the Ruhani Satsang sect.
              >
              > Torrey wrote:
              >
              > Hello folks,
              > I was in Eckankar from 1968-79, so I witnessed a lot
              > of how it evolved in the early days. When David Lane's
              > expose came out, I had to see for myself. I found copies
              > of the Sant Mat books in used bookstores, and went over
              > my Eck books and discourses line for line. And then looking
              > at those copyrights from the 1930's...it was just beyond
              > reasonable question that Paul had plagiarized this material
              > to create Eckankar.
              >
              > I tried to connect with some of the authentic Sant Mat
              > groups (Ruhani Sastang, Radhasoami, etc), but it was
              > just too confusing and painful at the time. I had put
              > absolute faith in Paul and then Darwin, only to realize
              > I'd been played for a fool. What made it worse was
              > knowing how many people I had drawn into their web,
              > in my years as a fervent Eck disciple. I couldn't put
              > my faith in another "Living Master", though I could
              > sense the genuine sanctity of some of them, at least.
              >
              > Anyways, just to say I think you've got it exactly right.
              > Paul borrowed from other sources - Theosophy, Scientology,
              > Sufi mysticism - but the core of what came to be known
              > as Eckankar was lifted straight out of Sant Mat.
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Has 500 year old Rebazar ever shown up at an ECK Seminar.... Never! He s fictional! This is the real Truth about Eckankar s origins that Klemp doesn t want
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 17, 2008
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                Has 500 year old Rebazar ever shown up
                at an ECK Seminar.... Never! He's fictional!

                This is the real Truth about Eckankar's
                origins that Klemp doesn't want ECKists
                thinking about. Why? Because rational
                and logical thought proves that RT Does
                Not exist! One must prove a Positive and
                Not a Negative. One must prove that RT
                Does exist on the Physical (earth) Plane.
                We don't have to prove that RT doesn't
                exist! So, where's the proof that Rebazar
                Does exist? Has RT ever spoken at an ECK
                Seminar? Why Not... doesn't he fly? And-
                How many people walking around with
                physical bodies on this earth, Now, are
                500 years old? Where are they?

                Remember, Rebazar supposedly initiated
                Twitchell. But, it was really Kirpal Singh!
                Therefore, Twitchell only received One
                initiation and that was in 1955 when
                Kirpal came to the U.S. And, Kirpal initiated
                Gail Twitchell in 1963 on his next visit
                to the U.S. This is why Klemp mentions
                on Eckankar.org that Kirpal had Twitchell's
                Tiger's Fang manuscript.

                Remember, too, on Eckankar.org Klemp states
                that Twitchell, at age 27, was "Exaggerating" and
                "Twisting Facts" to get into Who's Who in Kentucky
                and that Paul had Never Traveled too far from
                home.

                Also, note that in the front of the First Combined
                Printing-2000 of the Shariyat Books 1 & 2 that Klemp
                (the "all knowing" Mahanta) gives Paul's birth year
                as 1908.

                Therefore, when Paul was 27 years old and lying to
                get into Who's Who in Kentucky the year was 1935.

                Later on in the Paul Twitchell info on Eckankar.org
                Klemp states that Twitchell's "first" trip to India was
                in 1935 and that Paul met Rebazar on his "second"
                trip in 1952.

                How could there have been a "second trip" to India
                by Twit when the first one, at age 27 in 1935, was
                an obvious lie! Klemp stated that at age 27 PT had
                never traveled too far from home. Why can't the "All
                Knowing" Mahanta connect the dots and do the math?

                However, Klemp has unknowingly pointed out an
                on-going flaw in Twitchell's character. He's dishonest!
                In 1935 at age 27 Klemp pointed out that Twitchell
                was lying. And, 30 years later in 1965 Twitchell was
                lying again when PT wrote about his "second trip" to
                India to meet Rebazar in 1952. Twitchell was still lying
                that he had made a "first trip" to India in 1935 at age
                27 (born 1908) according to Klemp's information!

                Also, Doug Marman points out that Twitchell
                Did Not go to Paris, France to visit his sister
                Kay-Dee at art school. Instead, Doug states
                that it was Paris, Kentucky! Twitchell lied when
                writing about visiting his sister in France and
                about the "master" she was studying under,
                etc. This account about his visit to Kay-Dee
                was written, by Twitchell, after 1965! Ask
                Doug Marman if you don't believe me!

                Without the Rebazar Tarzs & Paul Twitchell
                connection, and the belief that RT is really
                alive, in a physical body, and 500 years old,
                Eckankar could Not exist! This one belief is
                the foundation of every other belief in the
                Eckankar Religion!

                Even Marman has stated (on Ford Johnson's
                Truth-Seeker Site) that Rebazar was probably
                a Myth! And Doug's a 7th Initiate!

                In 1956 Kirpal Singh was Twitchell's Living
                [Eck] Master!

                But, where's Rebazar? Until Twitchell substituted
                Rebazar for Kirpal RT's name was unknown to
                500 years worth of history!

                Does Rebazar speak, in person, at ECK Seminars?
                RT Never has and Never will! He's imaginary!
                Yet, the liar Twitchell, and now Klemp, claim RT
                exists on this PHYSICAL PLANE (earth) and is 500
                YEARS OLD! Big Foot has been sighted more than
                Rebazar! LOL!

                HK has stated that Rebazar guided Columbus
                to the Americas and that it was a search of
                "protein" for Europe, and that Fubbi "inspired"
                Columbus, but what happened to the spiritual
                Law of Non-Interference?

                What did RT, Fubbi and Chris do to/for the Natives
                in the Americas? Oops! Does Rape, Kill, Pillage, and
                enslave come to mind? It should! Klemp leaves that
                out... I wonder why? And, what did Columbus really
                want and take back with him? Are ECKists really that
                stupid, desperate, and needy that they can easily swallow
                and stomach this kind of B.S. coming from Klemp's
                mouth! It's bad enough reading Klemp's recent
                and glowing comments about his old hero Clarence
                Thomas!


                ANYWAY, CHECK OUT THE LINK BELOW-

                In the following 1956 letter Kirpal talks
                of: Satsangs; God-Realization; selfless
                service; contributions; the Light & Sound;
                Karma; Divine Soul; the Word; the Radiant
                Form of the Master; spirituality; Spirit;
                self-knowledge; God-Knowledge; and more
                terms that PT borrowed from Ruhani Satsang
                and The Path of the Masters.

                ***ENDS and MEANS***

                http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/means.htm

                Prometheus

                p.s. Since the whole economy (due to increased gas
                prices) is suffering will Klemp cancell the 2008 EWWS?
                It would be the "Green" thing to do, and it would help
                HK's chelas who tend to be cash strapped anyway. This
                considerate act would remove the "guilt" of Not attending,
                for many, and the requirement of attending for others
                (RESAs).


                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > This is just more proof that Kirpal and Not
                > Rebazar was Twitchell's true Master and that
                > the Ruhani Satsang teachings (with PT's added
                > twist) became ECKANKAR.
                >
                > All Paul, basically, did was: change Kirpal
                > to Rebazar; add the "Mahanta" title in 1969;
                > add more Planes than Ruhani lists, along
                > with a lineage of new and improved masters;
                > Westernize and change the 5 Virtures listed
                > in "The Path of the Masters" by Julian P. Johnson;
                > exclude Chastity from the Virtures; eliminate
                > the "mandatory" Vegetarian diet.
                >
                > Thus, PT's New Age Westernized sect of
                > Ruhani Satsang became Eckankar.
                >
                > The following was spoken by Sri Kirpal Singh
                > in 1956. Twitchell was initiated by Kirpal in
                > 1955. Does any of this sound familiar?
                >
                > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/seeker.htm
                >
                > "VlIl. RUHANI SATSANG or Path of the Masters:
                > The science of the living Masters is the most
                > ancient and the most perfect science the world
                > has ever seen, it is the most natural and the
                > easiest to follow, and can be followed by men
                > of all ages. Married life, avocation, caste and
                > creed, social and religious beliefs, poverty or
                > illiteracy, etc., are no bars. It is an inner
                > science of the soul and consists in contacting
                > the soul with the Oversoul, with the help and
                > guidance of the spiritual adept, well versed in
                > the theory and the practice of Para Vidya or the
                > Science of the Beyond and capable of granting
                > some first-hand spiritual experience at the very
                > first sitting. Nothing is to be taken on trust or
                > make-believe. Miracles, spiritual healings, psychic
                > phenomena, fortune-telling, akashic records and
                > worldly desires are all to be left aside, for these
                > are positive hindrances on the Path. The entire
                > energy is to be conserved for internal progress.
                >
                > Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all things
                > shall be added unto you. This is the highest Truth
                > that has been taught from hoary antiquity by sages
                > and seers since the day of creation. It is unalterable
                > and shall remain so. God, Godway, and Godman can
                > never suffer any change and shall ever remain eternal."
                >
                > Here are some 1964 comments by Kirpal on Service:
                > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/service.htm
                >
                > Kirpal talks of Weeding & Pruning & Nuturing.
                > He also talks of Service Before Self and about
                > the Master's Mission. Remember this is 1964!
                >
                > Kirpal talks more about Love, Life, and Light!
                >
                > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/jj/jj-intro3.htm#Without%20a
                >
                > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/letters.htm
                >
                > Anyway, here's more for ECKists to check out
                > and to research. There's no harm in researching
                > Eckankar's origins is there? Or, do ECKists only
                > read the edited and sanitized Klemp version
                > of everything?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello Torrey,
                > > Thank you! I enjoyed reading your post.
                > > Yes, the early Sant Mat connection to
                > > Eckankar via Twitchell is very clear when
                > > one opens their mind and takes the time
                > > to look. Unfortunately, most ECKists don't
                > > have a clue of these origins.
                > >
                > > Many ECKists don't want to know the truth
                > > because they are as happy as clams living
                > > in the dark with their delusions.
                > >
                > > Why should they tear down their house of
                > > cards after all of these years, and lose the
                > > friendships they've developed, and those
                > > higher initiations so hard to come by. The
                > > EK habit can't be discarded so easily. What
                > > do ECKists have to replace Eckankar? It (life)
                > > can be scary without the dependence upon
                > > a "Master."
                > >
                > > BTW - Here's some more Kirpal Singh and
                > > Ruhani Satsang info:
                > >
                > > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/letters.htm
                > >
                > > Check out the above link and the title on HUMILITY.
                > >
                > > When looking at the Virtue of Humility one has
                > > to ask, How can a "Master" be humble when he
                > > pays to be placed into "The International Who's
                > > Who of Intellectuals (ninth edition)" like Klemp has!
                > > Really, this is a Vain act and Not that of a Humble
                > > person let alone a "Master." Isn't Klemp supposed
                > > to be the "highest" spiritual vs mental example for
                > > ECKists to follow! Klemp did (as a Mahanta) what
                > > Twitchell did with "Who's Who" 20 years before
                > > being initiated by Kirpal! Besides, Klemp is more
                > > like G.W. when looking at his intellect!
                > >
                > > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/receptiv.htm
                > >
                > > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/books.htm#booklets
                > >
                > > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/jj/title.htm#toc
                > >
                > >
                > > When reading Kirpal's words one can see a
                > > clear difference between him and Klemp.
                > > Klemp is more like a "New Age" version of G.W.!
                > >
                > > I really do hope ECKists will take the time to do
                > > the research and read some of these comments
                > > by Kirpal. It is very interesting! One can see
                > > where the Real Source of Twitchell's Research
                > > came from other than the "Astral Library" as
                > > Klemp has claimed!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > > > >
                > > Ruhani Satsang is the true origin of Eckankar.
                > >
                > > Thus, Twitchell just did some "tweaking" to create his
                > > own Western version (sect) of the Ruhani Satsang sect.
                > >
                > > Torrey wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello folks,
                > > I was in Eckankar from 1968-79, so I witnessed a lot
                > > of how it evolved in the early days. When David Lane's
                > > expose came out, I had to see for myself. I found copies
                > > of the Sant Mat books in used bookstores, and went over
                > > my Eck books and discourses line for line. And then looking
                > > at those copyrights from the 1930's...it was just beyond
                > > reasonable question that Paul had plagiarized this material
                > > to create Eckankar.
                > >
                > > I tried to connect with some of the authentic Sant Mat
                > > groups (Ruhani Sastang, Radhasoami, etc), but it was
                > > just too confusing and painful at the time. I had put
                > > absolute faith in Paul and then Darwin, only to realize
                > > I'd been played for a fool. What made it worse was
                > > knowing how many people I had drawn into their web,
                > > in my years as a fervent Eck disciple. I couldn't put
                > > my faith in another "Living Master", though I could
                > > sense the genuine sanctity of some of them, at least.
                > >
                > > Anyways, just to say I think you've got it exactly right.
                > > Paul borrowed from other sources - Theosophy, Scientology,
                > > Sufi mysticism - but the core of what came to be known
                > > as Eckankar was lifted straight out of Sant Mat.
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