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[EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] women as eckmasters ...now??

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  • Leanne Thompson
    I read somewhere that there couldn t be any women eck masters (something to do with energies. I think ego.) ANd now they are comming up with kata daki. And
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 3, 2008
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      I read somewhere that there couldn't be any women eck masters (something to do with energies. I think ego.) ANd now they are comming up with kata daki. And Joan Klemps role(maybe they roll in bed). Funny how they are changing their tune now. Whatever happened to Grahm ???? who was kicked out and ford johnson had him write his experiences in a book?

       

      Leanne


    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Leanne! I believe it serves Klemp s purpose to bring out the female eck masters since it will allow him to place Joan in a position of authority beside
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 3, 2008
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        Hi, Leanne!

        I believe it serves Klemp's purpose to bring out the
        female eck masters since it will allow him to place Joan
        in a position of authority beside him, like co-L.E.M.
        After reading his book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters,"
        it seems that Klemp is inserting the idea in a somewhat
        subtle way that Joan would be elevated to eck master.
        However, for the slow learning chela, when reflecting
        back to this book, it is obvious that Joan had already
        become an eck master, just like Kata Daki. Klemp spins
        Joan into some of the stories showing how she is acting
        like an eck master--well, the book is interesting to read
        when you look for this subtle slight of hand that Klemp
        is doing regarding Joan.

        Klemp is looking at his age and energy in staying at the
        helm of the eck org. He had asserted at one time that he
        would hold the leadership position 10 to 20 years, but he
        has well exceeded it now. And it doesn't look like he is anytime
        soon ready to step down.

        In "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," pages 235-236, Klemp
        addresses how long he would serve as L.E.M and if any initiates
        were in training. He wrote: ". . . a few initiates were indeed
        in training for leadership in ECK, but no one was ready yet
        to assume the responsibility. It might take several years or
        many more for the first one to complete all the tests. Accordingly,
        the Master would continue for another cycle as the Mahanta,
        the Living ECK Master."

        So, H.I.'s and the power players like Peter Skelsky still have
        a long wait to become the next chosen one. Quite a contrast
        to how long Klemp waited! LOL! But Klemp is still holding on
        to the power and seems intent not to let go--and the "another
        cycle" would be how long, 12 years?

        Klemp needs Joan though because he can't trust sharing the
        limelight with anyone else. He most likely fears that he might
        suffer the same fate as Darwin--he might have done unto him
        what he did to Gross! : )

        Klemp paves the way for Joan becoming a female eck master
        by giving Kata Daki the same attention he does to the other
        eck masters in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," by devoting
        a chapter to each, including a chapter for this female eck master.
        Klemp explains that now is the time for the female masters to
        appear with this explanation on page 63:

        "Before we get too far along, we need to say a word about
        the female members of the Vairagi Order. There are precious
        few of them in relation to the number of males, and it is for
        a good reason. In past ages, and sometimes even today, it
        was easier for a male to move about in harsh societies and
        environments. So a Soul that had earned the right to incarnate
        into a lifetime devoted to the quest for Mastership often chose
        a male body. It was simply easier to get around in. That is not
        to say the individual's quest for truth was easier. It was not. . . . "

        Note that nothing is mentioned here about the Masculine Principle
        that was taught in the earlier eck teachings as a prerequisite
        in becoming an eck master, or that Vairagi Adepts are only 'just
        men.' Klemp is opening the door for female leadership, but of
        course, that would be Joan and only Joan. He might even have
        reflected back on the messy position in choosing PT's predecessor,
        as to how much easier it would have been if Gail had had some
        official authority as an eck master instead of using a dream
        by a lover and future wife of Darwin Gross as justification! This
        brought into question the authority and validity of Gross as LEM
        and his authority to pass his title and powers on to Klemp.

        So, bringing out female eck masters today fits in with the
        continuing conning of the chelas--Klemp is revising the teachings
        to suit his specific purposes. He needs Joan to have some legitimate
        power in order to help him hold onto the reins of the eck org.

        Role and rolling, very funny! : )

        Mish

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Leanne Thompson
        <le_anne_thompson@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > I read somewhere that there couldn't be any women eck masters (something to do with
        energies. I think ego.) ANd now they are comming up with kata daki. And Joan Klemps
        role(maybe they roll in bed). Funny how they are changing their tune now. Whatever
        happened to Grahm ???? who was kicked out and ford johnson had him write his
        experiences in a book?
        >  
        > Leanne
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, I think Mish explained Klemp s slight of hand tactics rather well! Yes, in 2005 when Those Wonderful EK Masters was written Klemp talked about being
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 4, 2008
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          Hello All,
          I think Mish explained Klemp's slight of hand tactics
          rather well! Yes, in 2005 when Those Wonderful EK
          Masters was written Klemp talked about being around
          for another (12 year) cycle. Therefore, Klemp is planning
          to stay for Three 12 year cycles, or 36 years. So, HK's
          reign is to be from 1981-2017! Or, would that be 2018!
          Klemp was 39 years old (1942) when DG made him the
          LEM. Klemp is 66 years old now, as is, his first wife and
          8th initiate Marge. I think Gail (who "made" Darwin) is
          67 years old and Joan is still 65. Anyway, Klemp doesn't
          want to let go of all his powers (as Mahanta) until he is
          75 or 76 years old! This is Why HK needs Joan to help
          him with the running of the org.

          Therefore, Klemp needs to pave the way for Joan becoming
          the next LEM or Co-LEM. For Klemp to say that there is
          no one ready after 27 years is a lie! Besides, some of these
          ECKists have been members as long as he has, thus, they
          have been "in training" for 40 years! Anyway, this is why
          Klemp is placing Joan on the same level with Kata Daki (KD).
          Even Kata Daki is a fake EK Master and was created 9 years
          after Twitchell's sister's (Kay-Dee) death. Anyway, this is
          what the older H.I.s have to look forward to. Eventually,
          (by 2017 or 2018) someone, Marge and Harold's daughter's
          age, will become the next Emperor of Eckankar.

          On another note:
          As far as when Twitchell first created and spoke of Rebazar?
          I think PT probably created RT around 1955. This was when
          Kirpal Singh first came to the U.S. and this was when Twitchell
          was initiated by Kirpal. PT had been writing fiction, plagiarizing,
          exaggerating (to extremes at times) and using name and word
          substitution in his articles from almost day one! IMO Twit simply
          used Kirpal's status and example and Ruhani Satsang dogma
          to form the basis for his fictional character of (master) Rebazar
          Tarzs.

          Prometheus


          Leanne wrote:
          I read somewhere that there couldn't be any women
          eck masters (something to do with energies. I think ego .)
          ANd now they are comming up with kata daki. And Joan
          Klemps role (maybe they roll in bed). Funny how they
          are changing their tune now. Whatever happened to Grahm ????
          who was kicked out and ford johnson had him write his
          experiences in a book?


          Mish wrote:
          [snip]
          "Note that nothing is mentioned here about the Masculine Principle
          that was taught in the earlier eck teachings as a prerequisite
          to becoming an eck master, or that Vairagi Adepts are only 'just
          men.' Klemp is opening the door for female leadership, but of
          course, that would be Joan and only Joan. He might even have
          reflected back on the messy position in choosing PT's successor,
          as to how much easier it would have been if Gail had had some
          official authority as an eck master instead of using a dream
          by a lover and future wife of Darwin Gross as justification! This
          brought into question the authority and validity of Gross as LEM
          and his authority to pass his title and powers on to Klemp."


          Etznab wrote:
          "Doing research about Eckankar
          history for educational purposes
          I am attempting to clarify some
          dates.

          Primarily, When did Paul and
          Gail get married? (I assume 1964,
          but not certain of day and month)
          And, when did Rebazar Tarzs first
          appear in print.

          I'd asked "these" questions on
          A.R.E., but so far no response.

          Do you have the date someplace
          in your archives for when Paul and
          Gail were married? Want to hazard
          a guess when the name Rebazar Tarzs
          first appeared in print?"
        • Leanne Thompson
          Will klemp collect social security as a man or eck master?   Leanne ... From: prometheus_973 Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous]
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 4, 2008
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            Will klemp collect social security as a man or eck master?

             

            Leanne

            --- On Fri, 7/4/08, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Women Eckmasters... Now or Never Were???
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 11:08 AM

            Hello All,
            I think Mish explained Klemp's slight of hand tactics
            rather well! Yes, in 2005 when Those Wonderful EK
            Masters was written Klemp talked about being around
            for another (12 year) cycle. Therefore, Klemp is planning
            to stay for Three 12 year cycles, or 36 years. So, HK's
            reign is to be from 1981-2017! Or, would that be 2018!
            Klemp was 39 years old (1942) when DG made him the
            LEM. Klemp is 66 years old now, as is, his first wife and
            8th initiate Marge. I think Gail (who "made" Darwin) is
            67 years old and Joan is still 65. Anyway, Klemp doesn't
            want to let go of all his powers (as Mahanta) until he is
            75 or 76 years old! This is Why HK needs Joan to help
            him with the running of the org.

            Therefore, Klemp needs to pave the way for Joan becoming
            the next LEM or Co-LEM. For Klemp to say that there is
            no one ready after 27 years is a lie! Besides, some of these
            ECKists have been members as long as he has, thus, they
            have been "in training" for 40 years! Anyway, this is why
            Klemp is placing Joan on the same level with Kata Daki (KD).
            Even Kata Daki is a fake EK Master and was created 9 years
            after Twitchell's sister's (Kay-Dee) death. Anyway, this is
            what the older H.I.s have to look forward to. Eventually,
            (by 2017 or 2018) someone, Marge and Harold's daughter's
            age, will become the next Emperor of Eckankar.

            On another note:
            As far as when Twitchell first created and spoke of Rebazar?
            I think PT probably created RT around 1955. This was when
            Kirpal Singh first came to the U.S. and this was when Twitchell
            was initiated by Kirpal. PT had been writing fiction, plagiarizing,
            exaggerating (to extremes at times) and using name and word
            substitution in his articles from almost day one! IMO Twit simply
            used Kirpal's status and example and Ruhani Satsang dogma
            to form the basis for his fictional character of (master) Rebazar
            Tarzs.

            Prometheus

            Leanne wrote:
            I read somewhere that there couldn't be any women
            eck masters (something to do with energies. I think ego .)
            ANd now they are comming up with kata daki. And Joan
            Klemps role (maybe they roll in bed). Funny how they
            are changing their tune now. Whatever happened to Grahm ????
            who was kicked out and ford johnson had him write his
            experiences in a book?

            Mish wrote:
            [snip]
            "Note that nothing is mentioned here about the Masculine Principle
            that was taught in the earlier eck teachings as a prerequisite
            to becoming an eck master, or that Vairagi Adepts are only 'just
            men.' Klemp is opening the door for female leadership, but of
            course, that would be Joan and only Joan. He might even have
            reflected back on the messy position in choosing PT's successor,
            as to how much easier it would have been if Gail had had some
            official authority as an eck master instead of using a dream
            by a lover and future wife of Darwin Gross as justification! This
            brought into question the authority and validity of Gross as LEM
            and his authority to pass his title and powers on to Klemp."

            Etznab wrote:
            "Doing research about Eckankar
            history for educational purposes
            I am attempting to clarify some
            dates.

            Primarily, When did Paul and
            Gail get married? (I assume 1964,
            but not certain of day and month)
            And, when did Rebazar Tarzs first
            appear in print.

            I'd asked "these" questions on
            A.R.E., but so far no response.

            Do you have the date someplace
            in your archives for when Paul and
            Gail were married? Want to hazard
            a guess when the name Rebazar Tarzs
            first appeared in print?"


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