Re: Klemp Uses A Quote From "Charlie Wilson's War"
- Here's another account of the negative and
pessimistic Zen Master story that Klemp used.
I GOOGLED this:
"Avrakotos is facetious to the core, but driven
by a genuine desire to help the Afghans take
down the Soviet Red Army. At the film's conclusion,
even after the Soviets admit defeat and pull
out of Afghanistan, he is pessimistic about
the future. He tells the story of the Zen Master
and the fourteen year old boy. On his fourteenth
birthday, the boy recives a horse as a present
and all the villagers say 'how lucky!' and the
Zen Master says 'We'll see'. When he is sixteen,
he falls off the horse and breaks his leg and all
the villages say 'how unlucky' and the Zen Master
says 'We'll see'. A few years later, there is a war
and all the young men are enlisted to fight except
the boy who still has a broken leg. All the villagers
say 'how lucky' and the Zen Master says 'We'll see'.
Both men were quick to see the problem in helping
to win a war (albeit covertly) but then failing to
regenerate and re-eduacte those people who had
been left maimed, homeless and disenfranchised,
with no strong government waiting to take over once
the Russians had left. It was a war that changed history
for good and as Wilson himself has commented since
'we achieved great things, we just fucked up the endgame!'"
Klemp, too, thinks he has "achieved great things"
(supposedly), but has screwed up the "endgame"
for all ECKists! However, it is just a "game" after all
> Hello All,
> I finally got around to watching the DVD
> of "Charlie Wilson's War" and heard the
> same story about a Zen Master, a horse,
> and a boy breaking his leg that Klemp
> used during the 2008 EK Springtime
> Seminar! This same story was told by
> the CIA guy that Charlie worked with.
> It was towards the end of the film
> (last 5 minutes or so) and on a balcony.
> It's interesting that in the 2008 EK Mystic
> World that Susan Miller's recap of the
> Seminar didn't mention any of HK's three
> "horse" references, including, this Zen Master
> story (We'll see!) that Klemp found interesting
> enough to include in his talk!
> It's also interesting that Klemp never
> mentions Where he first heard this
> story and Why he decided to repeat it!
> Anyway, here's the story taken from the
> notes of a ECKist attending the Seminar.
> Note Klemp's disclaimer of "BTW-This
> story has a lot of versions." Perhaps,
> HK Googled this quote after he saw
> the movie at a matinee in Eden Prairie!
> BTW-Klemp gives a more wordy and
> longer version of this witticism than
> was in the movie. HK seems to need
> longer to "set it up." It could be that
> this is just "filler" for his talk's time
> allotment and it, also, struck him as
> being profound when he first heard
> it. IMO Klemp decided to use this since
> he was probably thinking about and
> piecing together what he wanted to
> use in this upcoming talk!
> HK: "The first story was about a Zen
> Master who had a small band of followers.
> This story has a lot of versions, by the way.
> One of the followers had a son who wanted
> a horse. The father worked hard to get his
> son a horse, and all the boy's friends said,
> 'That's wonderful!'
> 'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, reserving
> YEARS LATER, the young man was riding the
> horse and fell off, breaking his leg. Thereafter,
> he always walked with a limp. The young man's
> friends said, 'Oh, that's awful!'
> 'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, again reserving
> A while later, war broke out, and the young man
> escaped being drafted for the army because he
> had a bad leg. His friends, most of whom had to
> join the army, said, 'You're so lucky!'
> BUT the Zen Master said, 'We'll see'..."
> [end of quote]
> It seems Klemp added more to this story than
> was necessary! TWO "We'll see" comments by
> the Zen Master were all that were needed to
> make the point! Apparently, Klemp finds it
> necessary to go into a longer explanation.
> Is this due to Klemp's grade-school mentality
> and consciousness or that of his audience?
> When I first heard this "horse" story involving
> a "Zen Master" I thought it took place hundreds
> of years ago! So, what's this about this young
> man with the broken leg getting out from being
> "drafted?" Did they even have a "draft?"
> Apparently Klemp needed to make this story
> his "own" by distorting it with another "version."
> However, isn't it interesting "connecting the dots"
> and seeing Where and How Klemp gets his info
> to continue the scam! Only a 14th Initiate Mahanta
> like Klemp has this much "original" insight and
> wisdom! NOT! LOL!
- How has Klemp helped the world? Fubbi and
Rebazar helped Columbus to find "protein"
for Europe. LOL!
Did EK Master Klemp inspire and help Charlie
Wilson to defeat Communism? Did EK Master
Klemp inspire CEO's to outsource U.S. manufacturing
jobs to China in order to create Capitalism there
and, thereby, defeat Communism!
Really! What has Klemp done if Rebazar and Fubbi
were involved with helping Europeans?
For one thing, Fubbi and Rebazar are fictional
characters created by Twitchell. At the most,
these are other people whose names have been
changed and who PT studied under at one time.
Still, Twitchell fantasized and lied about their
feats and powers in order to benefit himself!
Also, there was never a problem with "protein
sources" in Europe due to trade routes with other
closer countries. The Americas had more problems
with their "protein sources" than Europe!
So, once again... what has Klemp done for the world?
Nothing! He is a person who has never been able to
give or to receive love. His relationships with others
are lacking and depict his lifelong dysfunctional attitude.
The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!
Klemp used Columbus, Fubbi, and Rebazar to Rewrite History!
I thought I'd combine some posts on the Columbus-
Rebazar-Fubbi Lie that Klemp promotes. Klemp distorts
the facts. At the same time, IF what he states was true,
then Rebazar and Fubbi and the Mahanta Consciousness
must take responsibility for ALL OF THE NEGATIVE ACTIONS
AND RESULTS OF COLUMBUS' VOYAGES!
Understanding the basis of this fiction [ECK Legend] where
Rebazar and Fubbi influence Columbus on the "Inner Planes,"
for the good of the whole, is very relevant to seeing through
the Myth/Legend/Miracles and half-truths that all religions
use to deceive, to confuse, and to control their followers.
All religions do this, with their own unique spin, via giving
their followers faith, hope, and beliefs, as well as, the imagination
needed to alleivate their fears and to "answer" their questions
through prayer (etc.), scripture, or within (the inner). The faithful
must place their trust in the same lower "truths" their "enlightened"
leaders have fed them and their ancestors over generations.
Newer religions like Eckankar are no better than the older ones!
ECKists don't seem to understand that The ECK Initiations Are
A KAL Trap! The belief in the initiations, and the social aspect,
i.e. Eck friends, are what keep many people from leaving the Org!
Look at all of that time and those initiations [stature, (pride) or
security, (from fear/unknown)] that they have invested!
Plus, what do Eckists replace (Eckankar) their religion with? Freedom!
They can replace their religion with the Freedom of Soul! This
is how it was meant to be! The Eck initiations were created by
Twitchell so that he would have the highest... it was his idea
so why not have the highest (the 14th)! Really! it's that simple!
Eckists really need to use some common sense and their minds
just as they do to prevent themselves from falling into other
scams while in this world! And, there's nothing wrong with
using some Logic either!
Hi Etznab, Mish, Sharon, and All,
Even though Europe had been undergoing a "Little Ice Age"
(1300-1850) there was a greater desire for those with Power
and Money to seek more and even greater riches and power!
Therefore, Klemp's story of Rebazar and Fubbi influencing
Columbus on the "Inner" and misdirecting CC and his course
to India for the Greater Good, "protein" for Europeans, seems
strange and anti-ECK! This "inner plane" influence was a Lower
Plane, psychic, or Kal act! It is Not an act of Detachment (Vairag)
or of Non-attachment. [Actually, Columbus thought he could
just sail West to India. And, if LAND wasn't there one could!]
I really doubt that most ECKists have thought this out or have
looked at the implications of this ECK Legend "in fact."
FIRST, What happened to the Law of Non-interference? Why
is the "Inner" manipulation/mind-control by others (REBAZAR
& FUBBI) who are either real or ficticious seen as okay by Klemp?
SECOND, due to the "Little Ice Age," in Europe, the closest source
of other grains (sources of protein for both humans and livestock)
Unaffected By The Cold are the countries to the South which have
been (for centuries) a source of trade.
THIRD, Europe had more sources of protein grains (and fruit and
vegetables) than the Americas. And, Europe had domesticated animals!
What Dependable sources of protein (crops) did the Americas have
except for Corn? Not as many!
The Americas didn't have domesticated animals (until the Europeans
brought their own) and meat is the best source of protein! Therefore,
the native people could not depend on hunting enough meat! This
is why the countries that have the best sources of protein (grains,
domesticated animals for meat, eggs, cheese, milk, etc.) have more
advanced civilizations. The body and mind need protein.
FOURTH, due to the discovery by Columbus (and Rebazar & Fubbi)
others followed and TOBACCO was, also, brought back to Europe.
FIFTH, What happened to the indigenous people that Columbus,
and those who came after him, came in contact with? They were
murdered, raped, died from diseases, and enslaved due to the
search for Gold and Silver! Rebazar and Fubbi are responsible for
this! I wonder what the Central & South American ECK Chelas think
about this Columbus-Rebazar-Fubbi Story?
SIXTH, WHY are ECK Masters concerned with the Greater "Good,"
or health, of these Europeans over others throughout history?
Maybe Klemp can point out some other humantarian aid that
the ECK Masters have given Without Consent (via the INNER) to
other groups of people, or for the Good of the Whole...
and Civilization. Klemp preaches a non-involved and passive
view of world affairs.
BTW - On Amazon.com one can look at the index of
"The LITTLE ICE AGE: How Climate Made History 1300-1850"
by Brian Fagan.
HI, Etznab and All!
I didn't see the PBS show on Columbus, but in my studies of history
and of Columbus, I understand that Columbus was commissioned to
search for a water route to the East, for safer access to the treasures
there, rather than going the dangerous land way. Gold was one of the
riches being sought as well as spices and other desired things in
Europe--however, never did I learn or hear that Europe was in need
of protein!!! LOL! It amazes me that Klemp "dreamed" that idea up,
but maybe he just tests from time to time to see how gullible his
chelas are. I mean Klemp can't survive with too many smart people
under his command--so, making up dumb stories, seems to just
attract the extremely gullible, delusional and easily manipulated
kinds of people that Klemp likes best! Believing the story about
Fubbi and Rebazar assisting Columbus just indicates that if one
can believe that, then the rest of the eckankar crap is also
believeable! How else do con men choose their victims, but to see
how gullible some people are? If a person is in the same class of
people who accepts the words of an authority figure without question
then that person is just another gullible person who happens to be
in a different group from the other gullible people in the world--but
still that person is gullible.
Also this minority way of thinking in eckankar might seem novel,
but it doesn't mean that eckists are anymore special or enlightened
than any other people on this earth. However, such eck stories
that distort and erroneously inform, really just highlights how
dumb the teachings are and how gullible the chelas are to let it
slide by them! : )
After joining eckankar one discovers that it can't deliver the promises
it makes. The excuse given is that one needs more initiations in order
to open and expand one's consciousness. Still this does not work
either. This is why eckankar relies upon one's imagination to fulfill
one's desires--including the desire to belong to a religion. The problem
with this is that the 30 year plus eckists have come full circle, because
everyone, including non-eckists, have imaginations and are no less
spiritually advanced than these high inititates. So it all comes down
to imagination and delusion, and this is how eckankar works for
There was a story about Columbus discovering America on PBS,
Channel 9 recently. I didn't get time to watch it, but I heard that the
voyage did have something to do with one mineral in particular -
Happy Columbus Day! : )
In honor of Columbus Day, I am pulling up this post from
Jan. 2006 in which I cite HK in his book "Those Wonderful
ECK Masters" giving credit to Fubbi Quantz for assisting
Columbus in discovering America. I think it only fitting that
we remember Fubbi and Klemp when honoring Columbus! LOL!
Here's the old post that shows how historically incorrect Klemp
and his org would like his chelas to be:
I believe eckist parents need to be concerned about what HK/Eckankar
is teaching in regards to history. From HK's newest book, "Those
Wonderful Eck Masters," page 87 comes this history lesson:
"Fubbi Quantz once served as the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master.
This was during the time of Buddha, around the sixth century BC.
After completing his mission, he immortalized his body and continues
to serve the spiritual needs of mankind. He later served as teacher
of Firdusi, the Persian poet, and was also the spiritual guide of
Columbus. It was Fubbi Quantz who inspired Columbus to sail to the
Americas, to open the vast store-house of new sorely needed sources
of fruits, grains, legumes, vegetables, and especially protein
It was then the late fifteenth century. In his travels around
Europe, Fubbi Quantz had witnessed the appalling health of the
European people. It was in a shocking state. They had little energy
left over after a day's work for contemplation or reflection, the
moment of quiet which is the sweet drink of Soul. So Fubbi Quantz
gave Columbus a vision one night. In it he showed the potential of
the New World. This vision fired the imagination of Columbus and
thus set into motion the events that led him to sail his three tiny
ships westward into unknown waters. In the Americas, then, European
explorers found both precious minerals and abundant stores of life-
giving foods. Thus, Fubbi Quantz revived the food stock and
nutrition of the Old World."
I don't know what HK is drinking/smoking these days, but what a
fairy tale he spins here in his new book! But, in reality, this
story about the ECK Master Fubbi Quantz clearly shows that this is
all fakery and lies! LOL!
But on a very serious note, how can Eckists read this sort of stuff
and continue to support it? Come on, people, do a reality check and
get out of that crazy lying cult org!
What Klemp is really selling is "service." Fubbi is portrayed as
doing a "service" to mankind, and Klemp wants all eckists now to
do "service" for the mahanta's mission. However, it seems the Law of
Noninterference is being overlooked in this fabrication of history.
Karma, free will, and man's spiritual evolution with that of Soul
and of Spirit should not be interfered with by fictional eck
masters, sometimes disguised as angels. LOL!
Klemp's story about Fubbi is a myth--it's a lie. Every eckist out
there should be highly embarrassed to have the public reading this
trash and distortion of historical facts. Fubbi does not exist and
never did, as evidenced in Klemp's story in "Those Wonderful ECK
Masters!" This one fresh example indicates the whole of eckankar is
filled with lies and distortions of truth that any rational person
cannot overlook. Everything in eckankar needs to be questioned! Sane
people would view this book as a joke, and shaking their heads, move
on and away from it as quickly as possible!
Klemp uses this "Zen Master" quote from Charlie
Wilson's War in his 2008 EK Springtime Seminar Talk.
>From notes of Klemp's 2008 EK Springtime Seminar talk:
> Here's another account of the negative and
> pessimistic Zen Master story that Klemp used.
> I GOOGLED this on Charlie Wilson's War:
> "Avrakotos is facetious to the core, but driven
> by a genuine desire to help the Afghans take
> down the Soviet Red Army. At the film's conclusion,
> even after the Soviets admit defeat and pull
> out of Afghanistan, he is pessimistic about
> the future. He tells the story of the Zen Master
> and the fourteen year old boy. On his fourteenth
> birthday, the boy recives a horse as a present
> and all the villagers say 'how lucky!' and the
> Zen Master says 'We'll see'. When he is sixteen,
> he falls off the horse and breaks his leg and all
> the villages say 'how unlucky' and the Zen Master
> says 'We'll see'. A few years later, there is a war
> and all the young men are enlisted to fight except
> the boy who still has a broken leg. All the villagers
> say 'how lucky' and the Zen Master says 'We'll see'.
> Both men were quick to see the problem in helping
> to win a war (albeit covertly) but then failing to
> regenerate and re-eduacte those people who had
> been left maimed, homeless and disenfranchised,
> with no strong government waiting to take over once
> the Russians had left. It was a war that changed history
> for good and as Wilson himself has commented since
> 'we achieved great things, we just fucked up the endgame!'"
> Klemp, too, thinks he has "achieved great things"
> (supposedly), but has screwed up the "endgame"
> for all ECKists! However, it is just a "game" after all
> isn't it?
HK: "The first story was about a Zen Master who
had a small band of followers. This story has a lot
of versions, by the way.
> >One of the followers had a son who wanted
a horse. The father worked hard to get his
son a horse, and all the boy's friends said,
> >'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, reserving
> >YEARS LATER, the young man was riding the
horse and fell off, breaking his leg. Thereafter,
he always walked with a limp. The young man's
friends said, 'Oh, that's awful!'
> >'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, again reserving
> >A while later, war broke out, and the young man
escaped being drafted for the army because he
had a bad leg. His friends, most of whom had to
join the army, said, 'You're so lucky!'
> >BUT the Zen Master said, 'We'll see'..."
[end of quote]
> >It seems Klemp added more to this story than
was necessary! TWO "We'll see" comments by
the Zen Master were all that were needed to
make the point! Apparently, Klemp finds it
necessary to go into a longer explanation.
Is this due to Klemp's grade-school mentality
and consciousness or that of his audience?
> >When I first heard this "horse" story involving
a "Zen Master" I thought it took place hundreds
of years ago! So, what's this about this young
man with the broken leg getting out from being
"drafted?" Did they even have a "draft?"
> >Apparently Klemp needed to make this story
his "own" by distorting it with another "version."
> >However, isn't it interesting "connecting the dots"
and seeing Where and How Klemp gets his info
to continue the scam! Only a 14th Initiate Mahanta
like Klemp has this much "original" insight and
wisdom! NOT! LOL!
p.s. I wonder how many ECKists are walking around
saying, "We'll see!" But, I can see why the judgmental
and pessimistic Klemp would like this story and related