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Re: Klemp Uses A Quote From "Charlie Wilson's War"

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  • prometheus_973
    Here s another account of the negative and pessimistic Zen Master story that Klemp used. I GOOGLED this: ********************************************
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 1, 2008
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      Here's another account of the negative and
      pessimistic Zen Master story that Klemp used.
      I GOOGLED this:

      ********************************************
      "Avrakotos is facetious to the core, but driven
      by a genuine desire to help the Afghans take
      down the Soviet Red Army. At the film's conclusion,
      even after the Soviets admit defeat and pull
      out of Afghanistan, he is pessimistic about
      the future. He tells the story of the Zen Master
      and the fourteen year old boy. On his fourteenth
      birthday, the boy recives a horse as a present
      and all the villagers say 'how lucky!' and the
      Zen Master says 'We'll see'. When he is sixteen,
      he falls off the horse and breaks his leg and all
      the villages say 'how unlucky' and the Zen Master
      says 'We'll see'. A few years later, there is a war
      and all the young men are enlisted to fight except
      the boy who still has a broken leg. All the villagers
      say 'how lucky' and the Zen Master says 'We'll see'.


      Both men were quick to see the problem in helping
      to win a war (albeit covertly) but then failing to
      regenerate and re-eduacte those people who had
      been left maimed, homeless and disenfranchised,
      with no strong government waiting to take over once
      the Russians had left. It was a war that changed history
      for good and as Wilson himself has commented since
      'we achieved great things, we just fucked up the endgame!'"
      *******************************************************

      Klemp, too, thinks he has "achieved great things"
      (supposedly), but has screwed up the "endgame"
      for all ECKists! However, it is just a "game" after all
      isn't it?

      Prometheus


      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > I finally got around to watching the DVD
      > of "Charlie Wilson's War" and heard the
      > same story about a Zen Master, a horse,
      > and a boy breaking his leg that Klemp
      > used during the 2008 EK Springtime
      > Seminar! This same story was told by
      > the CIA guy that Charlie worked with.
      > It was towards the end of the film
      > (last 5 minutes or so) and on a balcony.
      >
      > It's interesting that in the 2008 EK Mystic
      > World that Susan Miller's recap of the
      > Seminar didn't mention any of HK's three
      > "horse" references, including, this Zen Master
      > story (We'll see!) that Klemp found interesting
      > enough to include in his talk!
      >
      > It's also interesting that Klemp never
      > mentions Where he first heard this
      > story and Why he decided to repeat it!
      >
      > Anyway, here's the story taken from the
      > notes of a ECKist attending the Seminar.
      > Note Klemp's disclaimer of "BTW-This
      > story has a lot of versions." Perhaps,
      > HK Googled this quote after he saw
      > the movie at a matinee in Eden Prairie!
      >
      > BTW-Klemp gives a more wordy and
      > longer version of this witticism than
      > was in the movie. HK seems to need
      > longer to "set it up." It could be that
      > this is just "filler" for his talk's time
      > allotment and it, also, struck him as
      > being profound when he first heard
      > it. IMO Klemp decided to use this since
      > he was probably thinking about and
      > piecing together what he wanted to
      > use in this upcoming talk!
      >
      >
      > HK: "The first story was about a Zen
      > Master who had a small band of followers.
      > This story has a lot of versions, by the way.
      >
      > One of the followers had a son who wanted
      > a horse. The father worked hard to get his
      > son a horse, and all the boy's friends said,
      > 'That's wonderful!'
      >
      > 'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, reserving
      > judgment.
      >
      > YEARS LATER, the young man was riding the
      > horse and fell off, breaking his leg. Thereafter,
      > he always walked with a limp. The young man's
      > friends said, 'Oh, that's awful!'
      >
      > 'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, again reserving
      > judgment.
      >
      > A while later, war broke out, and the young man
      > escaped being drafted for the army because he
      > had a bad leg. His friends, most of whom had to
      > join the army, said, 'You're so lucky!'
      >
      > BUT the Zen Master said, 'We'll see'..."
      > [end of quote]
      >
      > It seems Klemp added more to this story than
      > was necessary! TWO "We'll see" comments by
      > the Zen Master were all that were needed to
      > make the point! Apparently, Klemp finds it
      > necessary to go into a longer explanation.
      > Is this due to Klemp's grade-school mentality
      > and consciousness or that of his audience?
      >
      > When I first heard this "horse" story involving
      > a "Zen Master" I thought it took place hundreds
      > of years ago! So, what's this about this young
      > man with the broken leg getting out from being
      > "drafted?" Did they even have a "draft?"
      >
      > Apparently Klemp needed to make this story
      > his "own" by distorting it with another "version."
      >
      > However, isn't it interesting "connecting the dots"
      > and seeing Where and How Klemp gets his info
      > to continue the scam! Only a 14th Initiate Mahanta
      > like Klemp has this much "original" insight and
      > wisdom! NOT! LOL!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      How has Klemp helped the world? Fubbi and Rebazar helped Columbus to find protein for Europe. LOL! Did EK Master Klemp inspire and help Charlie Wilson to
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 2, 2008
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        How has Klemp helped the world? Fubbi and
        Rebazar helped Columbus to find "protein"
        for Europe. LOL!

        Did EK Master Klemp inspire and help Charlie
        Wilson to defeat Communism? Did EK Master
        Klemp inspire CEO's to outsource U.S. manufacturing
        jobs to China in order to create Capitalism there
        and, thereby, defeat Communism!

        Really! What has Klemp done if Rebazar and Fubbi
        were involved with helping Europeans?

        For one thing, Fubbi and Rebazar are fictional
        characters created by Twitchell. At the most,
        these are other people whose names have been
        changed and who PT studied under at one time.
        Still, Twitchell fantasized and lied about their
        feats and powers in order to benefit himself!

        Also, there was never a problem with "protein
        sources" in Europe due to trade routes with other
        closer countries. The Americas had more problems
        with their "protein sources" than Europe!

        So, once again... what has Klemp done for the world?
        Nothing! He is a person who has never been able to
        give or to receive love. His relationships with others
        are lacking and depict his lifelong dysfunctional attitude.
        The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!

        Prometheus

        Klemp used Columbus, Fubbi, and Rebazar to Rewrite History!

        Hi All,
        I thought I'd combine some posts on the Columbus-
        Rebazar-Fubbi Lie that Klemp promotes. Klemp distorts
        the facts. At the same time, IF what he states was true,
        then Rebazar and Fubbi and the Mahanta Consciousness
        must take responsibility for ALL OF THE NEGATIVE ACTIONS
        AND RESULTS OF COLUMBUS' VOYAGES!

        Understanding the basis of this fiction [ECK Legend] where
        Rebazar and Fubbi influence Columbus on the "Inner Planes,"
        for the good of the whole, is very relevant to seeing through
        the Myth/Legend/Miracles and half-truths that all religions
        use to deceive, to confuse, and to control their followers.

        All religions do this, with their own unique spin, via giving
        their followers faith, hope, and beliefs, as well as, the imagination
        needed to alleivate their fears and to "answer" their questions
        through prayer (etc.), scripture, or within (the inner). The faithful
        must place their trust in the same lower "truths" their "enlightened"
        leaders have fed them and their ancestors over generations.

        Newer religions like Eckankar are no better than the older ones!
        ECKists don't seem to understand that The ECK Initiations Are
        A KAL Trap! The belief in the initiations, and the social aspect,
        i.e. Eck friends, are what keep many people from leaving the Org!
        Look at all of that time and those initiations [stature, (pride) or
        security, (from fear/unknown)] that they have invested!

        Plus, what do Eckists replace (Eckankar) their religion with? Freedom!
        They can replace their religion with the Freedom of Soul! This
        is how it was meant to be! The Eck initiations were created by
        Twitchell so that he would have the highest... it was his idea
        so why not have the highest (the 14th)! Really! it's that simple!

        Eckists really need to use some common sense and their minds
        just as they do to prevent themselves from falling into other
        scams while in this world! And, there's nothing wrong with
        using some Logic either!

        Prometheus


        Hi Etznab, Mish, Sharon, and All,
        Even though Europe had been undergoing a "Little Ice Age"
        (1300-1850) there was a greater desire for those with Power
        and Money to seek more and even greater riches and power!

        Therefore, Klemp's story of Rebazar and Fubbi influencing
        Columbus on the "Inner" and misdirecting CC and his course
        to India for the Greater Good, "protein" for Europeans, seems
        strange and anti-ECK! This "inner plane" influence was a Lower
        Plane, psychic, or Kal act! It is Not an act of Detachment (Vairag)
        or of Non-attachment. [Actually, Columbus thought he could
        just sail West to India. And, if LAND wasn't there one could!]

        I really doubt that most ECKists have thought this out or have
        looked at the implications of this ECK Legend "in fact."

        FIRST, What happened to the Law of Non-interference? Why
        is the "Inner" manipulation/mind-control by others (REBAZAR
        & FUBBI) who are either real or ficticious seen as okay by Klemp?

        SECOND, due to the "Little Ice Age," in Europe, the closest source
        of other grains (sources of protein for both humans and livestock)
        Unaffected By The Cold are the countries to the South which have
        been (for centuries) a source of trade.

        THIRD, Europe had more sources of protein grains (and fruit and
        vegetables) than the Americas. And, Europe had domesticated animals!
        What Dependable sources of protein (crops) did the Americas have
        except for Corn? Not as many!

        The Americas didn't have domesticated animals (until the Europeans
        brought their own) and meat is the best source of protein! Therefore,
        the native people could not depend on hunting enough meat! This
        is why the countries that have the best sources of protein (grains,
        domesticated animals for meat, eggs, cheese, milk, etc.) have more
        advanced civilizations. The body and mind need protein.

        FOURTH, due to the discovery by Columbus (and Rebazar & Fubbi)
        others followed and TOBACCO was, also, brought back to Europe.

        FIFTH, What happened to the indigenous people that Columbus,
        and those who came after him, came in contact with? They were
        murdered, raped, died from diseases, and enslaved due to the
        search for Gold and Silver! Rebazar and Fubbi are responsible for
        this! I wonder what the Central & South American ECK Chelas think
        about this Columbus-Rebazar-Fubbi Story?

        SIXTH, WHY are ECK Masters concerned with the Greater "Good,"
        or health, of these Europeans over others throughout history?
        Maybe Klemp can point out some other humantarian aid that
        the ECK Masters have given Without Consent (via the INNER) to
        other groups of people, or for the Good of the Whole...
        and Civilization. Klemp preaches a non-involved and passive
        view of world affairs.

        BTW - On Amazon.com one can look at the index of
        "The LITTLE ICE AGE: How Climate Made History 1300-1850"
        by Brian Fagan.

        Prometheus


        Mish wrote:

        HI, Etznab and All!

        I didn't see the PBS show on Columbus, but in my studies of history
        and of Columbus, I understand that Columbus was commissioned to
        search for a water route to the East, for safer access to the treasures
        there, rather than going the dangerous land way. Gold was one of the
        riches being sought as well as spices and other desired things in
        Europe--however, never did I learn or hear that Europe was in need
        of protein!!! LOL! It amazes me that Klemp "dreamed" that idea up,
        but maybe he just tests from time to time to see how gullible his
        chelas are. I mean Klemp can't survive with too many smart people
        under his command--so, making up dumb stories, seems to just
        attract the extremely gullible, delusional and easily manipulated
        kinds of people that Klemp likes best! Believing the story about
        Fubbi and Rebazar assisting Columbus just indicates that if one
        can believe that, then the rest of the eckankar crap is also
        believeable! How else do con men choose their victims, but to see
        how gullible some people are? If a person is in the same class of
        people who accepts the words of an authority figure without question
        then that person is just another gullible person who happens to be
        in a different group from the other gullible people in the world--but
        still that person is gullible.

        Also this minority way of thinking in eckankar might seem novel,
        but it doesn't mean that eckists are anymore special or enlightened
        than any other people on this earth. However, such eck stories
        that distort and erroneously inform, really just highlights how
        dumb the teachings are and how gullible the chelas are to let it
        slide by them! : )

        After joining eckankar one discovers that it can't deliver the promises
        it makes. The excuse given is that one needs more initiations in order
        to open and expand one's consciousness. Still this does not work
        either. This is why eckankar relies upon one's imagination to fulfill
        one's desires--including the desire to belong to a religion. The problem
        with this is that the 30 year plus eckists have come full circle, because
        everyone, including non-eckists, have imaginations and are no less
        spiritually advanced than these high inititates. So it all comes down
        to imagination and delusion, and this is how eckankar works for
        some people!

        Mish

        etznab wrote:

        Mish,

        There was a story about Columbus discovering America on PBS,
        Channel 9 recently. I didn't get time to watch it, but I heard that the
        voyage did have something to do with one mineral in particular -
        GOLD!

        Etznab

        mish wrote:


        Hi, All!

        Happy Columbus Day! : )

        In honor of Columbus Day, I am pulling up this post from
        Jan. 2006 in which I cite HK in his book "Those Wonderful
        ECK Masters" giving credit to Fubbi Quantz for assisting
        Columbus in discovering America. I think it only fitting that
        we remember Fubbi and Klemp when honoring Columbus! LOL!

        Here's the old post that shows how historically incorrect Klemp
        and his org would like his chelas to be:

        mish wrote:

        Hi, All!

        I believe eckist parents need to be concerned about what HK/Eckankar
        is teaching in regards to history. From HK's newest book, "Those
        Wonderful Eck Masters," page 87 comes this history lesson:

        "Fubbi Quantz once served as the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master.
        This was during the time of Buddha, around the sixth century BC.
        After completing his mission, he immortalized his body and continues
        to serve the spiritual needs of mankind. He later served as teacher
        of Firdusi, the Persian poet, and was also the spiritual guide of
        Columbus. It was Fubbi Quantz who inspired Columbus to sail to the
        Americas, to open the vast store-house of new sorely needed sources
        of fruits, grains, legumes, vegetables, and especially protein
        there.

        It was then the late fifteenth century. In his travels around
        Europe, Fubbi Quantz had witnessed the appalling health of the
        European people. It was in a shocking state. They had little energy
        left over after a day's work for contemplation or reflection, the
        moment of quiet which is the sweet drink of Soul. So Fubbi Quantz
        gave Columbus a vision one night. In it he showed the potential of
        the New World. This vision fired the imagination of Columbus and
        thus set into motion the events that led him to sail his three tiny
        ships westward into unknown waters. In the Americas, then, European
        explorers found both precious minerals and abundant stores of life-
        giving foods. Thus, Fubbi Quantz revived the food stock and
        nutrition of the Old World."

        I don't know what HK is drinking/smoking these days, but what a
        fairy tale he spins here in his new book! But, in reality, this
        story about the ECK Master Fubbi Quantz clearly shows that this is
        all fakery and lies! LOL!

        But on a very serious note, how can Eckists read this sort of stuff
        and continue to support it? Come on, people, do a reality check and
        get out of that crazy lying cult org!

        What Klemp is really selling is "service." Fubbi is portrayed as
        doing a "service" to mankind, and Klemp wants all eckists now to
        do "service" for the mahanta's mission. However, it seems the Law of
        Noninterference is being overlooked in this fabrication of history.
        Karma, free will, and man's spiritual evolution with that of Soul
        and of Spirit should not be interfered with by fictional eck
        masters, sometimes disguised as angels. LOL!

        Klemp's story about Fubbi is a myth--it's a lie. Every eckist out
        there should be highly embarrassed to have the public reading this
        trash and distortion of historical facts. Fubbi does not exist and
        never did, as evidenced in Klemp's story in "Those Wonderful ECK
        Masters!" This one fresh example indicates the whole of eckankar is
        filled with lies and distortions of truth that any rational person
        cannot overlook. Everything in eckankar needs to be questioned! Sane
        people would view this book as a joke, and shaking their heads, move
        on and away from it as quickly as possible!

        Mish
        ***********************************************************
        Klemp uses this "Zen Master" quote from Charlie
        Wilson's War in his 2008 EK Springtime Seminar Talk.

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Here's another account of the negative and
        > pessimistic Zen Master story that Klemp used.
        > I GOOGLED this on Charlie Wilson's War:
        >

        > "Avrakotos is facetious to the core, but driven
        > by a genuine desire to help the Afghans take
        > down the Soviet Red Army. At the film's conclusion,
        > even after the Soviets admit defeat and pull
        > out of Afghanistan, he is pessimistic about
        > the future. He tells the story of the Zen Master
        > and the fourteen year old boy. On his fourteenth
        > birthday, the boy recives a horse as a present
        > and all the villagers say 'how lucky!' and the
        > Zen Master says 'We'll see'. When he is sixteen,
        > he falls off the horse and breaks his leg and all
        > the villages say 'how unlucky' and the Zen Master
        > says 'We'll see'. A few years later, there is a war
        > and all the young men are enlisted to fight except
        > the boy who still has a broken leg. All the villagers
        > say 'how lucky' and the Zen Master says 'We'll see'.
        >
        >
        > Both men were quick to see the problem in helping
        > to win a war (albeit covertly) but then failing to
        > regenerate and re-eduacte those people who had
        > been left maimed, homeless and disenfranchised,
        > with no strong government waiting to take over once
        > the Russians had left. It was a war that changed history
        > for good and as Wilson himself has commented since
        > 'we achieved great things, we just fucked up the endgame!'"
        >
        >
        > Klemp, too, thinks he has "achieved great things"
        > (supposedly), but has screwed up the "endgame"
        > for all ECKists! However, it is just a "game" after all
        > isn't it?
        >
        > Prometheus

        From notes of Klemp's 2008 EK Springtime Seminar talk:

        HK: "The first story was about a Zen Master who
        had a small band of followers. This story has a lot
        of versions, by the way.
        > >
        One of the followers had a son who wanted
        a horse. The father worked hard to get his
        son a horse, and all the boy's friends said,
        'That's wonderful!'
        > >
        'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, reserving
        judgment.
        > >
        YEARS LATER, the young man was riding the
        horse and fell off, breaking his leg. Thereafter,
        he always walked with a limp. The young man's
        friends said, 'Oh, that's awful!'
        > >
        'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, again reserving
        judgment.
        > >
        A while later, war broke out, and the young man
        escaped being drafted for the army because he
        had a bad leg. His friends, most of whom had to
        join the army, said, 'You're so lucky!'
        > >
        BUT the Zen Master said, 'We'll see'..."
        [end of quote]
        > >
        It seems Klemp added more to this story than
        was necessary! TWO "We'll see" comments by
        the Zen Master were all that were needed to
        make the point! Apparently, Klemp finds it
        necessary to go into a longer explanation.
        Is this due to Klemp's grade-school mentality
        and consciousness or that of his audience?
        > >
        When I first heard this "horse" story involving
        a "Zen Master" I thought it took place hundreds
        of years ago! So, what's this about this young
        man with the broken leg getting out from being
        "drafted?" Did they even have a "draft?"
        > >
        Apparently Klemp needed to make this story
        his "own" by distorting it with another "version."
        > >
        However, isn't it interesting "connecting the dots"
        and seeing Where and How Klemp gets his info
        to continue the scam! Only a 14th Initiate Mahanta
        like Klemp has this much "original" insight and
        wisdom! NOT! LOL!
        > >
        Prometheus
        p.s. I wonder how many ECKists are walking around
        saying, "We'll see!" But, I can see why the judgmental
        and pessimistic Klemp would like this story and related
        to it!
        >
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