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Klemp Uses A Quote From "Charlie Wilson's War"

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I finally got around to watching the DVD of Charlie Wilson s War and heard the same story about a Zen Master, a horse, and a boy breaking his leg
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 30, 2008
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      Hello All,
      I finally got around to watching the DVD
      of "Charlie Wilson's War" and heard the
      same story about a Zen Master, a horse,
      and a boy breaking his leg that Klemp
      used during the 2008 EK Springtime
      Seminar! This same story was told by
      the CIA guy that Charlie worked with.
      It was towards the end of the film
      (last 5 minutes or so) and on a balcony.

      It's interesting that in the 2008 EK Mystic
      World that Susan Miller's recap of the
      Seminar didn't mention any of HK's three
      "horse" references, including, this Zen Master
      story (We'll see!) that Klemp found interesting
      enough to include in his talk!

      It's also interesting that Klemp never
      mentions Where he first heard this
      story and Why he decided to repeat it!

      Anyway, here's the story taken from the
      notes of a ECKist attending the Seminar.
      Note Klemp's disclaimer of "BTW-This
      story has a lot of versions." Perhaps,
      HK Googled this quote after he saw
      the movie at a matinee in Eden Prairie!

      BTW-Klemp gives a more wordy and
      longer version of this witticism than
      was in the movie. HK seems to need
      longer to "set it up." It could be that
      this is just "filler" for his talk's time
      allotment and it, also, struck him as
      being profound when he first heard
      it. IMO Klemp decided to use this since
      he was probably thinking about and
      piecing together what he wanted to
      use in this upcoming talk!


      HK: "The first story was about a Zen
      Master who had a small band of followers.
      This story has a lot of versions, by the way.

      One of the followers had a son who wanted
      a horse. The father worked hard to get his
      son a horse, and all the boy's friends said,
      'That's wonderful!'

      'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, reserving
      judgment.

      YEARS LATER, the young man was riding the
      horse and fell off, breaking his leg. Thereafter,
      he always walked with a limp. The young man's
      friends said, 'Oh, that's awful!'

      'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, again reserving
      judgment.

      A while later, war broke out, and the young man
      escaped being drafted for the army because he
      had a bad leg. His friends, most of whom had to
      join the army, said, 'You're so lucky!'

      BUT the Zen Master said, 'We'll see'..."
      [end of quote]

      It seems Klemp added more to this story than
      was necessary! TWO "We'll see" comments by
      the Zen Master were all that were needed to
      make the point! Apparently, Klemp finds it
      necessary to go into a longer explanation.
      Is this due to Klemp's grade-school mentality
      and consciousness or that of his audience?

      When I first heard this "horse" story involving
      a "Zen Master" I thought it took place hundreds
      of years ago! So, what's this about this young
      man with the broken leg getting out from being
      "drafted?" Did they even have a "draft?"

      Apparently Klemp needed to make this story
      his "own" by distorting it with another "version."

      However, isn't it interesting "connecting the dots"
      and seeing Where and How Klemp gets his info
      to continue the scam! Only a 14th Initiate Mahanta
      like Klemp has this much "original" insight and
      wisdom! NOT! LOL!

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      Here s another account of the negative and pessimistic Zen Master story that Klemp used. I GOOGLED this: ********************************************
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 1 10:04 AM
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        Here's another account of the negative and
        pessimistic Zen Master story that Klemp used.
        I GOOGLED this:

        ********************************************
        "Avrakotos is facetious to the core, but driven
        by a genuine desire to help the Afghans take
        down the Soviet Red Army. At the film's conclusion,
        even after the Soviets admit defeat and pull
        out of Afghanistan, he is pessimistic about
        the future. He tells the story of the Zen Master
        and the fourteen year old boy. On his fourteenth
        birthday, the boy recives a horse as a present
        and all the villagers say 'how lucky!' and the
        Zen Master says 'We'll see'. When he is sixteen,
        he falls off the horse and breaks his leg and all
        the villages say 'how unlucky' and the Zen Master
        says 'We'll see'. A few years later, there is a war
        and all the young men are enlisted to fight except
        the boy who still has a broken leg. All the villagers
        say 'how lucky' and the Zen Master says 'We'll see'.


        Both men were quick to see the problem in helping
        to win a war (albeit covertly) but then failing to
        regenerate and re-eduacte those people who had
        been left maimed, homeless and disenfranchised,
        with no strong government waiting to take over once
        the Russians had left. It was a war that changed history
        for good and as Wilson himself has commented since
        'we achieved great things, we just fucked up the endgame!'"
        *******************************************************

        Klemp, too, thinks he has "achieved great things"
        (supposedly), but has screwed up the "endgame"
        for all ECKists! However, it is just a "game" after all
        isn't it?

        Prometheus


        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > I finally got around to watching the DVD
        > of "Charlie Wilson's War" and heard the
        > same story about a Zen Master, a horse,
        > and a boy breaking his leg that Klemp
        > used during the 2008 EK Springtime
        > Seminar! This same story was told by
        > the CIA guy that Charlie worked with.
        > It was towards the end of the film
        > (last 5 minutes or so) and on a balcony.
        >
        > It's interesting that in the 2008 EK Mystic
        > World that Susan Miller's recap of the
        > Seminar didn't mention any of HK's three
        > "horse" references, including, this Zen Master
        > story (We'll see!) that Klemp found interesting
        > enough to include in his talk!
        >
        > It's also interesting that Klemp never
        > mentions Where he first heard this
        > story and Why he decided to repeat it!
        >
        > Anyway, here's the story taken from the
        > notes of a ECKist attending the Seminar.
        > Note Klemp's disclaimer of "BTW-This
        > story has a lot of versions." Perhaps,
        > HK Googled this quote after he saw
        > the movie at a matinee in Eden Prairie!
        >
        > BTW-Klemp gives a more wordy and
        > longer version of this witticism than
        > was in the movie. HK seems to need
        > longer to "set it up." It could be that
        > this is just "filler" for his talk's time
        > allotment and it, also, struck him as
        > being profound when he first heard
        > it. IMO Klemp decided to use this since
        > he was probably thinking about and
        > piecing together what he wanted to
        > use in this upcoming talk!
        >
        >
        > HK: "The first story was about a Zen
        > Master who had a small band of followers.
        > This story has a lot of versions, by the way.
        >
        > One of the followers had a son who wanted
        > a horse. The father worked hard to get his
        > son a horse, and all the boy's friends said,
        > 'That's wonderful!'
        >
        > 'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, reserving
        > judgment.
        >
        > YEARS LATER, the young man was riding the
        > horse and fell off, breaking his leg. Thereafter,
        > he always walked with a limp. The young man's
        > friends said, 'Oh, that's awful!'
        >
        > 'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, again reserving
        > judgment.
        >
        > A while later, war broke out, and the young man
        > escaped being drafted for the army because he
        > had a bad leg. His friends, most of whom had to
        > join the army, said, 'You're so lucky!'
        >
        > BUT the Zen Master said, 'We'll see'..."
        > [end of quote]
        >
        > It seems Klemp added more to this story than
        > was necessary! TWO "We'll see" comments by
        > the Zen Master were all that were needed to
        > make the point! Apparently, Klemp finds it
        > necessary to go into a longer explanation.
        > Is this due to Klemp's grade-school mentality
        > and consciousness or that of his audience?
        >
        > When I first heard this "horse" story involving
        > a "Zen Master" I thought it took place hundreds
        > of years ago! So, what's this about this young
        > man with the broken leg getting out from being
        > "drafted?" Did they even have a "draft?"
        >
        > Apparently Klemp needed to make this story
        > his "own" by distorting it with another "version."
        >
        > However, isn't it interesting "connecting the dots"
        > and seeing Where and How Klemp gets his info
        > to continue the scam! Only a 14th Initiate Mahanta
        > like Klemp has this much "original" insight and
        > wisdom! NOT! LOL!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        How has Klemp helped the world? Fubbi and Rebazar helped Columbus to find protein for Europe. LOL! Did EK Master Klemp inspire and help Charlie Wilson to
        Message 3 of 3 , Jul 2 2:07 PM
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          How has Klemp helped the world? Fubbi and
          Rebazar helped Columbus to find "protein"
          for Europe. LOL!

          Did EK Master Klemp inspire and help Charlie
          Wilson to defeat Communism? Did EK Master
          Klemp inspire CEO's to outsource U.S. manufacturing
          jobs to China in order to create Capitalism there
          and, thereby, defeat Communism!

          Really! What has Klemp done if Rebazar and Fubbi
          were involved with helping Europeans?

          For one thing, Fubbi and Rebazar are fictional
          characters created by Twitchell. At the most,
          these are other people whose names have been
          changed and who PT studied under at one time.
          Still, Twitchell fantasized and lied about their
          feats and powers in order to benefit himself!

          Also, there was never a problem with "protein
          sources" in Europe due to trade routes with other
          closer countries. The Americas had more problems
          with their "protein sources" than Europe!

          So, once again... what has Klemp done for the world?
          Nothing! He is a person who has never been able to
          give or to receive love. His relationships with others
          are lacking and depict his lifelong dysfunctional attitude.
          The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!

          Prometheus

          Klemp used Columbus, Fubbi, and Rebazar to Rewrite History!

          Hi All,
          I thought I'd combine some posts on the Columbus-
          Rebazar-Fubbi Lie that Klemp promotes. Klemp distorts
          the facts. At the same time, IF what he states was true,
          then Rebazar and Fubbi and the Mahanta Consciousness
          must take responsibility for ALL OF THE NEGATIVE ACTIONS
          AND RESULTS OF COLUMBUS' VOYAGES!

          Understanding the basis of this fiction [ECK Legend] where
          Rebazar and Fubbi influence Columbus on the "Inner Planes,"
          for the good of the whole, is very relevant to seeing through
          the Myth/Legend/Miracles and half-truths that all religions
          use to deceive, to confuse, and to control their followers.

          All religions do this, with their own unique spin, via giving
          their followers faith, hope, and beliefs, as well as, the imagination
          needed to alleivate their fears and to "answer" their questions
          through prayer (etc.), scripture, or within (the inner). The faithful
          must place their trust in the same lower "truths" their "enlightened"
          leaders have fed them and their ancestors over generations.

          Newer religions like Eckankar are no better than the older ones!
          ECKists don't seem to understand that The ECK Initiations Are
          A KAL Trap! The belief in the initiations, and the social aspect,
          i.e. Eck friends, are what keep many people from leaving the Org!
          Look at all of that time and those initiations [stature, (pride) or
          security, (from fear/unknown)] that they have invested!

          Plus, what do Eckists replace (Eckankar) their religion with? Freedom!
          They can replace their religion with the Freedom of Soul! This
          is how it was meant to be! The Eck initiations were created by
          Twitchell so that he would have the highest... it was his idea
          so why not have the highest (the 14th)! Really! it's that simple!

          Eckists really need to use some common sense and their minds
          just as they do to prevent themselves from falling into other
          scams while in this world! And, there's nothing wrong with
          using some Logic either!

          Prometheus


          Hi Etznab, Mish, Sharon, and All,
          Even though Europe had been undergoing a "Little Ice Age"
          (1300-1850) there was a greater desire for those with Power
          and Money to seek more and even greater riches and power!

          Therefore, Klemp's story of Rebazar and Fubbi influencing
          Columbus on the "Inner" and misdirecting CC and his course
          to India for the Greater Good, "protein" for Europeans, seems
          strange and anti-ECK! This "inner plane" influence was a Lower
          Plane, psychic, or Kal act! It is Not an act of Detachment (Vairag)
          or of Non-attachment. [Actually, Columbus thought he could
          just sail West to India. And, if LAND wasn't there one could!]

          I really doubt that most ECKists have thought this out or have
          looked at the implications of this ECK Legend "in fact."

          FIRST, What happened to the Law of Non-interference? Why
          is the "Inner" manipulation/mind-control by others (REBAZAR
          & FUBBI) who are either real or ficticious seen as okay by Klemp?

          SECOND, due to the "Little Ice Age," in Europe, the closest source
          of other grains (sources of protein for both humans and livestock)
          Unaffected By The Cold are the countries to the South which have
          been (for centuries) a source of trade.

          THIRD, Europe had more sources of protein grains (and fruit and
          vegetables) than the Americas. And, Europe had domesticated animals!
          What Dependable sources of protein (crops) did the Americas have
          except for Corn? Not as many!

          The Americas didn't have domesticated animals (until the Europeans
          brought their own) and meat is the best source of protein! Therefore,
          the native people could not depend on hunting enough meat! This
          is why the countries that have the best sources of protein (grains,
          domesticated animals for meat, eggs, cheese, milk, etc.) have more
          advanced civilizations. The body and mind need protein.

          FOURTH, due to the discovery by Columbus (and Rebazar & Fubbi)
          others followed and TOBACCO was, also, brought back to Europe.

          FIFTH, What happened to the indigenous people that Columbus,
          and those who came after him, came in contact with? They were
          murdered, raped, died from diseases, and enslaved due to the
          search for Gold and Silver! Rebazar and Fubbi are responsible for
          this! I wonder what the Central & South American ECK Chelas think
          about this Columbus-Rebazar-Fubbi Story?

          SIXTH, WHY are ECK Masters concerned with the Greater "Good,"
          or health, of these Europeans over others throughout history?
          Maybe Klemp can point out some other humantarian aid that
          the ECK Masters have given Without Consent (via the INNER) to
          other groups of people, or for the Good of the Whole...
          and Civilization. Klemp preaches a non-involved and passive
          view of world affairs.

          BTW - On Amazon.com one can look at the index of
          "The LITTLE ICE AGE: How Climate Made History 1300-1850"
          by Brian Fagan.

          Prometheus


          Mish wrote:

          HI, Etznab and All!

          I didn't see the PBS show on Columbus, but in my studies of history
          and of Columbus, I understand that Columbus was commissioned to
          search for a water route to the East, for safer access to the treasures
          there, rather than going the dangerous land way. Gold was one of the
          riches being sought as well as spices and other desired things in
          Europe--however, never did I learn or hear that Europe was in need
          of protein!!! LOL! It amazes me that Klemp "dreamed" that idea up,
          but maybe he just tests from time to time to see how gullible his
          chelas are. I mean Klemp can't survive with too many smart people
          under his command--so, making up dumb stories, seems to just
          attract the extremely gullible, delusional and easily manipulated
          kinds of people that Klemp likes best! Believing the story about
          Fubbi and Rebazar assisting Columbus just indicates that if one
          can believe that, then the rest of the eckankar crap is also
          believeable! How else do con men choose their victims, but to see
          how gullible some people are? If a person is in the same class of
          people who accepts the words of an authority figure without question
          then that person is just another gullible person who happens to be
          in a different group from the other gullible people in the world--but
          still that person is gullible.

          Also this minority way of thinking in eckankar might seem novel,
          but it doesn't mean that eckists are anymore special or enlightened
          than any other people on this earth. However, such eck stories
          that distort and erroneously inform, really just highlights how
          dumb the teachings are and how gullible the chelas are to let it
          slide by them! : )

          After joining eckankar one discovers that it can't deliver the promises
          it makes. The excuse given is that one needs more initiations in order
          to open and expand one's consciousness. Still this does not work
          either. This is why eckankar relies upon one's imagination to fulfill
          one's desires--including the desire to belong to a religion. The problem
          with this is that the 30 year plus eckists have come full circle, because
          everyone, including non-eckists, have imaginations and are no less
          spiritually advanced than these high inititates. So it all comes down
          to imagination and delusion, and this is how eckankar works for
          some people!

          Mish

          etznab wrote:

          Mish,

          There was a story about Columbus discovering America on PBS,
          Channel 9 recently. I didn't get time to watch it, but I heard that the
          voyage did have something to do with one mineral in particular -
          GOLD!

          Etznab

          mish wrote:


          Hi, All!

          Happy Columbus Day! : )

          In honor of Columbus Day, I am pulling up this post from
          Jan. 2006 in which I cite HK in his book "Those Wonderful
          ECK Masters" giving credit to Fubbi Quantz for assisting
          Columbus in discovering America. I think it only fitting that
          we remember Fubbi and Klemp when honoring Columbus! LOL!

          Here's the old post that shows how historically incorrect Klemp
          and his org would like his chelas to be:

          mish wrote:

          Hi, All!

          I believe eckist parents need to be concerned about what HK/Eckankar
          is teaching in regards to history. From HK's newest book, "Those
          Wonderful Eck Masters," page 87 comes this history lesson:

          "Fubbi Quantz once served as the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master.
          This was during the time of Buddha, around the sixth century BC.
          After completing his mission, he immortalized his body and continues
          to serve the spiritual needs of mankind. He later served as teacher
          of Firdusi, the Persian poet, and was also the spiritual guide of
          Columbus. It was Fubbi Quantz who inspired Columbus to sail to the
          Americas, to open the vast store-house of new sorely needed sources
          of fruits, grains, legumes, vegetables, and especially protein
          there.

          It was then the late fifteenth century. In his travels around
          Europe, Fubbi Quantz had witnessed the appalling health of the
          European people. It was in a shocking state. They had little energy
          left over after a day's work for contemplation or reflection, the
          moment of quiet which is the sweet drink of Soul. So Fubbi Quantz
          gave Columbus a vision one night. In it he showed the potential of
          the New World. This vision fired the imagination of Columbus and
          thus set into motion the events that led him to sail his three tiny
          ships westward into unknown waters. In the Americas, then, European
          explorers found both precious minerals and abundant stores of life-
          giving foods. Thus, Fubbi Quantz revived the food stock and
          nutrition of the Old World."

          I don't know what HK is drinking/smoking these days, but what a
          fairy tale he spins here in his new book! But, in reality, this
          story about the ECK Master Fubbi Quantz clearly shows that this is
          all fakery and lies! LOL!

          But on a very serious note, how can Eckists read this sort of stuff
          and continue to support it? Come on, people, do a reality check and
          get out of that crazy lying cult org!

          What Klemp is really selling is "service." Fubbi is portrayed as
          doing a "service" to mankind, and Klemp wants all eckists now to
          do "service" for the mahanta's mission. However, it seems the Law of
          Noninterference is being overlooked in this fabrication of history.
          Karma, free will, and man's spiritual evolution with that of Soul
          and of Spirit should not be interfered with by fictional eck
          masters, sometimes disguised as angels. LOL!

          Klemp's story about Fubbi is a myth--it's a lie. Every eckist out
          there should be highly embarrassed to have the public reading this
          trash and distortion of historical facts. Fubbi does not exist and
          never did, as evidenced in Klemp's story in "Those Wonderful ECK
          Masters!" This one fresh example indicates the whole of eckankar is
          filled with lies and distortions of truth that any rational person
          cannot overlook. Everything in eckankar needs to be questioned! Sane
          people would view this book as a joke, and shaking their heads, move
          on and away from it as quickly as possible!

          Mish
          ***********************************************************
          Klemp uses this "Zen Master" quote from Charlie
          Wilson's War in his 2008 EK Springtime Seminar Talk.

          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Here's another account of the negative and
          > pessimistic Zen Master story that Klemp used.
          > I GOOGLED this on Charlie Wilson's War:
          >

          > "Avrakotos is facetious to the core, but driven
          > by a genuine desire to help the Afghans take
          > down the Soviet Red Army. At the film's conclusion,
          > even after the Soviets admit defeat and pull
          > out of Afghanistan, he is pessimistic about
          > the future. He tells the story of the Zen Master
          > and the fourteen year old boy. On his fourteenth
          > birthday, the boy recives a horse as a present
          > and all the villagers say 'how lucky!' and the
          > Zen Master says 'We'll see'. When he is sixteen,
          > he falls off the horse and breaks his leg and all
          > the villages say 'how unlucky' and the Zen Master
          > says 'We'll see'. A few years later, there is a war
          > and all the young men are enlisted to fight except
          > the boy who still has a broken leg. All the villagers
          > say 'how lucky' and the Zen Master says 'We'll see'.
          >
          >
          > Both men were quick to see the problem in helping
          > to win a war (albeit covertly) but then failing to
          > regenerate and re-eduacte those people who had
          > been left maimed, homeless and disenfranchised,
          > with no strong government waiting to take over once
          > the Russians had left. It was a war that changed history
          > for good and as Wilson himself has commented since
          > 'we achieved great things, we just fucked up the endgame!'"
          >
          >
          > Klemp, too, thinks he has "achieved great things"
          > (supposedly), but has screwed up the "endgame"
          > for all ECKists! However, it is just a "game" after all
          > isn't it?
          >
          > Prometheus

          From notes of Klemp's 2008 EK Springtime Seminar talk:

          HK: "The first story was about a Zen Master who
          had a small band of followers. This story has a lot
          of versions, by the way.
          > >
          One of the followers had a son who wanted
          a horse. The father worked hard to get his
          son a horse, and all the boy's friends said,
          'That's wonderful!'
          > >
          'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, reserving
          judgment.
          > >
          YEARS LATER, the young man was riding the
          horse and fell off, breaking his leg. Thereafter,
          he always walked with a limp. The young man's
          friends said, 'Oh, that's awful!'
          > >
          'We'll see,' said the Zen Master, again reserving
          judgment.
          > >
          A while later, war broke out, and the young man
          escaped being drafted for the army because he
          had a bad leg. His friends, most of whom had to
          join the army, said, 'You're so lucky!'
          > >
          BUT the Zen Master said, 'We'll see'..."
          [end of quote]
          > >
          It seems Klemp added more to this story than
          was necessary! TWO "We'll see" comments by
          the Zen Master were all that were needed to
          make the point! Apparently, Klemp finds it
          necessary to go into a longer explanation.
          Is this due to Klemp's grade-school mentality
          and consciousness or that of his audience?
          > >
          When I first heard this "horse" story involving
          a "Zen Master" I thought it took place hundreds
          of years ago! So, what's this about this young
          man with the broken leg getting out from being
          "drafted?" Did they even have a "draft?"
          > >
          Apparently Klemp needed to make this story
          his "own" by distorting it with another "version."
          > >
          However, isn't it interesting "connecting the dots"
          and seeing Where and How Klemp gets his info
          to continue the scam! Only a 14th Initiate Mahanta
          like Klemp has this much "original" insight and
          wisdom! NOT! LOL!
          > >
          Prometheus
          p.s. I wonder how many ECKists are walking around
          saying, "We'll see!" But, I can see why the judgmental
          and pessimistic Klemp would like this story and related
          to it!
          >
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