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Both Klemp and Maybury Miss the Mark!

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  • prometheus_973
    Both Klemp and Maybury Miss the Mark! Baby-Boomer Maybury discovered these Two ECK Spiritual Laws before LEM Harry Klemp! Why is that? Are these two laws
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 21, 2008
      Both Klemp and Maybury Miss the Mark!

      Baby-Boomer Maybury "discovered" these Two
      ECK Spiritual Laws before LEM Harry Klemp!
      Why is that?

      Are these two "laws" by Maybury really all that
      "spiritual?"

      Isn't the first (1) of Maybury's & Klemp's two (DO)
      "laws" more KAL like (lower plane) in nature, thus,
      involving things or words and acts of a generalized
      nature!

      Where's the "LOVE the Lord your GOD with all your
      Heart, Mind, Soul, and Strength?!

      And, isn't the second of Maybury's & Klemp's two
      "laws" a rewrite of "Love your neighbor as yourself,"
      BUT without the LOVE!

      Actually, neither of Maybury's & Klemp's Two Spiritual
      Laws include the word LOVE! They begin with DO and
      DO NOT!

      Klemp does a lot of talk about love, but look at the Two
      Spiritual Laws HK has adopted from Maybury!

      It's no wonder (to me) that KLEMP is even more clueless
      than Maybury! ECKists need to believe in something,
      but is Klemp the best they can do! Pitiful! WAKE UP!

      It's okay to question and disagree with what one hears,
      sees, and reads regarding Klemp's leadership views!
      Sometimes "Change" must first come from the individual
      ECKist and Not from the entrenched views of those in
      the upper echelons of the Hierarchy (i.e. pecking order,
      multi-level marketing (ziggurat) pyramid). This is, also,
      why many EK Leaders have rebelled and disregard the
      ESC/HK Guidelines!

      Maybury/Klemp:

      1) DO all you have agreed to DO; and

      2) DO NOT encroach upon another's person or property.

      ----------------VERSUS---------------

      1) LOVE the Lord your GOD with all your Heart, Mind,
      Soul and Strength; and

      2) LOVE your neighbor as yourSelf.



      prometheus wrote:

      ---Maybury Must Be An ECK Master!---

      Hello All,
      How many ECK Masters have created "Spiritual
      Laws?" I don't know of any except for Richard
      Maybury! Maybe RM is just an "honorary" EK Master
      like all of those people in history that Twitchell
      claimed were EK Masters! Still, it is interesting
      that Klemp would give a non-ECKist such an
      honor by making his two laws into ECK "Spiritual
      Laws" for the H.I.s to "obey." And, it's even more
      interesting since Maybury is a baby-boomer (born
      1946) because Klemp has a dislike for baby-boomers
      as a whole!

      However, it could be that Maybury is a Full ECK Master!
      Who else could have created these two ECK Spiritual
      Laws if not a 12th Initiate and ECK Master! Does this
      mean that Maybury is the Co-LEM? At least he's male
      and, therefore, fulfills this qualification too! Perhaps
      Richard Maybury should be the next Mahanta as well!

      Prometheus

      prometheus wrote:

      HK: H.I.s are to "OBEY MAYBURY'S TWO SPIRITUAL LAWS!"

      ***In the "Spiritual Duties of the ECK High Initiate"
      Klemp suggests that the ECK High Initiate...

      "Obeys the Two Spiritual Laws discovered by
      Maybury:

      Do all you have agreed to do, and

      Do Not encroach on other persons
      or their property"

      Below is an AMAZON review of Maybury's book, What
      ever Happened to Justice? Klemp has suggested that
      ECKists read this book. However, the more one reads
      (and listens) the more one can see Klemp's (LEM)
      flawed and limited thinking. He is more a KAL agent
      than a "Master!"

      **************************************************
      "Flawed but helpful enlightenment thinking--

      Mr. Maybury does a wonderful job of explaining
      the differences between natural "scientific" law
      (also known as "common law") which can be
      discovered because it is universal and given by
      God, and resides universally in the hearts of men,
      and "political law" which is created by men and
      which almost always violates Maybury's Two
      Laws (which form the basis of scientific common law):

      1) Do all you have agreed to do; and

      2) Do not encroach upon another's person or property.

      Maybury then illustrates how much of the current
      social and even economic problems we now experience
      are due to the erosion of natural common law. I agree
      with him wholeheartedly.

      I subtract one star for the following reason: Maybury
      is close to greater light, but loses it by embracing the
      enlightenment thinking that exalts the reason of man
      to such a degree that it shares the throne or even eclipses
      the acknowlegment of God. When we forget God, and cease
      to be grateful, our downfall is assured. I believe
      enlightenment thinking was our first unwitting step down
      as a nation. The two laws which Mr. Maybury advances
      are very good ones, but they are less than the two laws
      upon which all else hangs:

      1) Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul
      and strength; and

      2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

      I do not think Mr. Maybury has forgotten God, and
      he cannot be accused of being ungrateful - for he
      loves this country and recognizes our unique blessings,
      but his enlightenment thinking is slightly off the mark.
      As an example of this, I cite Mr. Maybury's correct
      assertion that right-to-life questions are of utmost
      importance - as the ultimate violation of encroachment
      against another's person. However, and true to his
      enlightenment thinking, he grounds our natural right
      to life in our intelligence (which is surely one of the
      attributes of God we share, but which is fallen).
      Logically, Maybury goes on to question what degree
      of intelligence would be required before our right
      to life would no longer be protected by common law!

      I quote from page 117 of Maybury's book: "Rights
      seem to be attached to intelligence. But we don't
      know what level of intelligence, or how to measure
      it. To be within the protection of the law, how smart
      is smart enough?" This sums up the weakness of the
      book to my mind. I would argue that the right to life
      is not grounded in our intelligence, but in our humanity
      created in the image of God.

      Incidentally, I am a lawyer and also the mother of
      a child who suffers from autism. Under Maybury's
      reasoning, my child's right to life is more questionable
      than his siblings and mine because of his reduced
      mental capacity. If I have learned anything from my
      autistic son, it is that human life is valuable because
      it is made in God's image, even though the image
      is marred by our fallen state."

      ******************************************************

      It's really no wonder that Klemp would latch onto
      something like these "Two Laws" since HK's also
      quoted Paul Harvey and other conservatives and
      isolationists in the past. However, Klemp's opinions
      tend to lack empathy even though he talks of love.
      The difference is Klemp merely talks the talk without
      walking the walk. Klemp's nasty words and actions,
      as well as, fear/control tactics toward ECKists (and
      others) speaks volumes as he too "misses the mark!"

      Here are two Wikipedia links that explain Maybury's
      stand on "Common Law" and "Austrian Economics."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Law

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_economics

      Prometheus
    • Andrew
      So true...Klemp has run outof ideas and has actively promoted flawed thinking from other s for a long time. There is nothing here to learn from. At least
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 21, 2008
        So true...Klemp has run outof ideas and has actively promoted flawed
        thinking from other's for a long time. There is nothing here to learn
        from. At least Darwin could pen a few good lines himself, but all
        have been easily surpassed by simple and pure thought stripped of the
        dogma by writers like Eckhart Tolle and his comtemporaries...
        After of 20 years in Eckankar I look back and see it as a step to
        where I am now but I wince when I see the brainwashing of current
        members...


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Both Klemp and Maybury Miss the Mark!
        >
        > Baby-Boomer Maybury "discovered" these Two
        > ECK Spiritual Laws before LEM Harry Klemp!
        > Why is that?
        >
        > Are these two "laws" by Maybury really all that
        > "spiritual?"
        >
        > Isn't the first (1) of Maybury's & Klemp's two (DO)
        > "laws" more KAL like (lower plane) in nature, thus,
        > involving things or words and acts of a generalized
        > nature!
        >
        > Where's the "LOVE the Lord your GOD with all your
        > Heart, Mind, Soul, and Strength?!
        >
        > And, isn't the second of Maybury's & Klemp's two
        > "laws" a rewrite of "Love your neighbor as yourself,"
        > BUT without the LOVE!
        >
        > Actually, neither of Maybury's & Klemp's Two Spiritual
        > Laws include the word LOVE! They begin with DO and
        > DO NOT!
        >
        > Klemp does a lot of talk about love, but look at the Two
        > Spiritual Laws HK has adopted from Maybury!
        >
        > It's no wonder (to me) that KLEMP is even more clueless
        > than Maybury! ECKists need to believe in something,
        > but is Klemp the best they can do! Pitiful! WAKE UP!
        >
        > It's okay to question and disagree with what one hears,
        > sees, and reads regarding Klemp's leadership views!
        > Sometimes "Change" must first come from the individual
        > ECKist and Not from the entrenched views of those in
        > the upper echelons of the Hierarchy (i.e. pecking order,
        > multi-level marketing (ziggurat) pyramid). This is, also,
        > why many EK Leaders have rebelled and disregard the
        > ESC/HK Guidelines!
        >
        > Maybury/Klemp:
        >
        > 1) DO all you have agreed to DO; and
        >
        > 2) DO NOT encroach upon another's person or property.
        >
        > ----------------VERSUS---------------
        >
        > 1) LOVE the Lord your GOD with all your Heart, Mind,
        > Soul and Strength; and
        >
        > 2) LOVE your neighbor as yourSelf.
        >
        >
        >
        > prometheus wrote:
        >
        > ---Maybury Must Be An ECK Master!---
        >
        > Hello All,
        > How many ECK Masters have created "Spiritual
        > Laws?" I don't know of any except for Richard
        > Maybury! Maybe RM is just an "honorary" EK Master
        > like all of those people in history that Twitchell
        > claimed were EK Masters! Still, it is interesting
        > that Klemp would give a non-ECKist such an
        > honor by making his two laws into ECK "Spiritual
        > Laws" for the H.I.s to "obey." And, it's even more
        > interesting since Maybury is a baby-boomer (born
        > 1946) because Klemp has a dislike for baby-boomers
        > as a whole!
        >
        > However, it could be that Maybury is a Full ECK Master!
        > Who else could have created these two ECK Spiritual
        > Laws if not a 12th Initiate and ECK Master! Does this
        > mean that Maybury is the Co-LEM? At least he's male
        > and, therefore, fulfills this qualification too! Perhaps
        > Richard Maybury should be the next Mahanta as well!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > prometheus wrote:
        >
        > HK: H.I.s are to "OBEY MAYBURY'S TWO SPIRITUAL LAWS!"
        >
        > ***In the "Spiritual Duties of the ECK High Initiate"
        > Klemp suggests that the ECK High Initiate...
        >
        > "Obeys the Two Spiritual Laws discovered by
        > Maybury:
        >
        > Do all you have agreed to do, and
        >
        > Do Not encroach on other persons
        > or their property"
        >
        > Below is an AMAZON review of Maybury's book, What
        > ever Happened to Justice? Klemp has suggested that
        > ECKists read this book. However, the more one reads
        > (and listens) the more one can see Klemp's (LEM)
        > flawed and limited thinking. He is more a KAL agent
        > than a "Master!"
        >
        > **************************************************
        > "Flawed but helpful enlightenment thinking--
        >
        > Mr. Maybury does a wonderful job of explaining
        > the differences between natural "scientific" law
        > (also known as "common law") which can be
        > discovered because it is universal and given by
        > God, and resides universally in the hearts of men,
        > and "political law" which is created by men and
        > which almost always violates Maybury's Two
        > Laws (which form the basis of scientific common law):
        >
        > 1) Do all you have agreed to do; and
        >
        > 2) Do not encroach upon another's person or property.
        >
        > Maybury then illustrates how much of the current
        > social and even economic problems we now experience
        > are due to the erosion of natural common law. I agree
        > with him wholeheartedly.
        >
        > I subtract one star for the following reason: Maybury
        > is close to greater light, but loses it by embracing the
        > enlightenment thinking that exalts the reason of man
        > to such a degree that it shares the throne or even eclipses
        > the acknowlegment of God. When we forget God, and cease
        > to be grateful, our downfall is assured. I believe
        > enlightenment thinking was our first unwitting step down
        > as a nation. The two laws which Mr. Maybury advances
        > are very good ones, but they are less than the two laws
        > upon which all else hangs:
        >
        > 1) Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul
        > and strength; and
        >
        > 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.
        >
        > I do not think Mr. Maybury has forgotten God, and
        > he cannot be accused of being ungrateful - for he
        > loves this country and recognizes our unique blessings,
        > but his enlightenment thinking is slightly off the mark.
        > As an example of this, I cite Mr. Maybury's correct
        > assertion that right-to-life questions are of utmost
        > importance - as the ultimate violation of encroachment
        > against another's person. However, and true to his
        > enlightenment thinking, he grounds our natural right
        > to life in our intelligence (which is surely one of the
        > attributes of God we share, but which is fallen).
        > Logically, Maybury goes on to question what degree
        > of intelligence would be required before our right
        > to life would no longer be protected by common law!
        >
        > I quote from page 117 of Maybury's book: "Rights
        > seem to be attached to intelligence. But we don't
        > know what level of intelligence, or how to measure
        > it. To be within the protection of the law, how smart
        > is smart enough?" This sums up the weakness of the
        > book to my mind. I would argue that the right to life
        > is not grounded in our intelligence, but in our humanity
        > created in the image of God.
        >
        > Incidentally, I am a lawyer and also the mother of
        > a child who suffers from autism. Under Maybury's
        > reasoning, my child's right to life is more questionable
        > than his siblings and mine because of his reduced
        > mental capacity. If I have learned anything from my
        > autistic son, it is that human life is valuable because
        > it is made in God's image, even though the image
        > is marred by our fallen state."
        >
        > ******************************************************
        >
        > It's really no wonder that Klemp would latch onto
        > something like these "Two Laws" since HK's also
        > quoted Paul Harvey and other conservatives and
        > isolationists in the past. However, Klemp's opinions
        > tend to lack empathy even though he talks of love.
        > The difference is Klemp merely talks the talk without
        > walking the walk. Klemp's nasty words and actions,
        > as well as, fear/control tactics toward ECKists (and
        > others) speaks volumes as he too "misses the mark!"
        >
        > Here are two Wikipedia links that explain Maybury's
        > stand on "Common Law" and "Austrian Economics."
        >
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Law
        >
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_economics
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Andrew, Welcome to the site! Yes, it seems Klemp has/is running out of ideas as to how to promote Twitchell s CONvoluted religion! One would think that
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 22, 2008
          Hello Andrew,
          Welcome to the site! Yes, it seems Klemp
          has/is running out of ideas as to how to
          promote Twitchell's CONvoluted religion!

          One would think that this current negative
          World situation is fertile ground to plant the
          seeds of religious hope/promises for a better
          (after) life to come. Perhaps HK could suggest
          a better use and refocus of one's imagination
          in order to hide and ignore while denying the
          true tests of reality that Klemp, too, has no
          control over! Eckankar and other religions
          should be growing in large numbers due to
          the fearful masses of humanity!

          But, what's the point for these New Age ECKists
          or anyone to continue to believe in Klemp and
          other preachers or religious promises, as well as
          secular leaders?

          All religions (including Eckankar) are redundant,
          and fraudulent. Klemp's old time (Lutheran) religion
          and Christian/Radhasoami/New Age twist of Eckankar
          is a complex blend of more crap! Each on its own
          is crap and blended together is just a more CONfusing
          remake/CONversion of lies, myth, and fantasy.

          Twitchell based Eckankar upon other false teachings
          (Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang) and the FACT That
          These "Resources" Too Are False, is overlooked by ECKists!

          Instead, Eckankar apologists focus on denying PT's
          plagiarisms Without looking at the Radhasoami/Ruhani
          "Living Master" similarities to that of Eckankar's LEM,
          and to the similar claims/distortions surrounding the
          "Master's" powers, etc.!

          The true seeker eventually realizes that he/she must
          become their own master without the permission
          of others.


          BTW- Here's an interesting article that I saw this
          morning that shows Why people are feeling lost,
          out of control, and fearful of the (very) near future.

          http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20080622/Out.of.Control/

          Prometheus


          Andrew wrote:
          >
          >
          So true...Klemp has run out of ideas and has
          actively promoted flawed thinking from other's
          for a long time. There is nothing here to learn
          from. At least Darwin could pen a few good
          lines himself, but all have been easily surpassed
          by simple and pure thought stripped of the
          dogma by writers like Eckhart Tolle and his
          comtemporaries... After of 20 years in Eckankar
          I look back and see it as a step to where I am
          now but I wince when I see the brainwashing
          of current members...
          >
          >
          prometheus wrote:
          > >
          Both Klemp and Maybury Miss the Mark!
          > >
          Baby-Boomer Maybury "discovered" these Two
          ECK Spiritual Laws before LEM Harry Klemp!
          Why is that?
          > >
          Are these two "laws" by Maybury really all that
          "spiritual?"
          > >
          Isn't the first (1) of Maybury's & Klemp's two (DO)
          "laws" more KAL like (lower plane) in nature, thus,
          involving things or words and acts of a generalized
          nature!
          > >
          Where's the "LOVE the Lord your GOD with all your
          Heart, Mind, Soul, and Strength?!
          > >
          And, isn't the second of Maybury's & Klemp's two
          "laws" a rewrite of "Love your neighbor as yourself,"
          BUT without the LOVE!
          > >
          Actually, neither of Maybury's & Klemp's Two Spiritual
          Laws include the word LOVE! They begin with DO and
          DO NOT!
          > >
          Klemp does a lot of talk about love, but look at the Two
          Spiritual Laws HK has adopted from Maybury!
          > >
          It's no wonder (to me) that KLEMP is even more clueless
          than Maybury! ECKists need to believe in something,
          but is Klemp the best they can do! Pitiful! WAKE UP!
          > >
          It's okay to question and disagree with what one hears,
          sees, and reads regarding Klemp's leadership views!
          Sometimes "Change" must first come from the individual
          ECKist and Not from the entrenched views of those in
          the upper echelons of the Hierarchy (i.e. pecking order,
          multi-level marketing (ziggurat) pyramid). This is, also,
          why many EK Leaders have rebelled and disregard the
          ESC/HK Guidelines!

          Maybury/Klemp:

          1) DO all you have agreed to DO; and

          2) DO NOT encroach upon another's person or property.

          ----------------VERSUS---------------

          1) LOVE the Lord your GOD with all your Heart, Mind,
          Soul and Strength; and

          2) LOVE your neighbor as yourSelf.
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