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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Repost of James P. Davis post on Truth Seeke...

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  • etznab@aol.com
    In a message dated 5/27/08 1:14:01 PM Central Daylight Time, ... This section reminds me about the way a lot of people react, not so much to the fact of having
    Message 1 of 3 , May 29 8:23 PM
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      In a message dated 5/27/08 1:14:01 PM Central Daylight Time, prometheus_973@... writes:


      Tough-love is real, and
      in the spiritual tradition it leads (or pushes) Soul onwards towards
      God. I see no love in comforting others with gentle lies, nor in
      telling them they will suffer spiritual decline and misery if they
      leave the Eckankar club. One of the primary reasons I decided to
      leave Eckankar was precisely because the pronouncements of love
      made by the leaders was contradicted all too often by their actions
      and harsh denouncement of those who disagreed with them, or
      those who choose to follow another road, or of other "inferior" paths.


         This section reminds me about the way a lot of people
      react, not so much to the fact of having been lied to, but
      rather to the prospect of having to lie to others themself.
      And viewing as less those who don't believe them. Some-
      times the only way to have the truth - and to tell it too - is
      to disassociate with the party(s) responsible for distorting
      it. IMO. Either that, or try very hard not to repeat the lies.
      To yourself, or to others.

         Some people who's job it is to speak though, sometimes
      it can be difficult. Stay silent. Especially with a lot of people
      coming to you for answers. I'm reminded of "What Happened"
      with Scott McClellen. It was his job to speak, and like a lot of
      people who spoke for others without checking whether all the
      information was true (but "trusting" that it was) they can easily
      find out later (after they do check the information) they lied to
      people without even knowing it.

         IMO, it's probably a sobering experience to learn in hindsight
      what one didn't know in the beginning. And a more sobering ex-
      perience still to watch what happens with others who come to
      learn the truth - the truth that many other people already knew -
      but that they themself didn't want to admit. To other people and
      to theirself.

         It's probably harder being "active" in Eckankar today, than at
      probably any other time in history. For some reason I have the
      hunch this could be true. At least, for those who independently
      choose to review the information for themself.

      Etznab

        



      **************
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    • Elizabeth
      Scott McClellan told the truth after he discovered the lies; where as Klemp stopped short of telling the whole truth! Big difference, but I get what you are
      Message 2 of 3 , May 30 11:59 AM
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        Scott McClellan told the truth after he discovered the lies;  where as Klemp stopped short of telling the whole truth! Big difference, but I get what you are saying Etznab and agree with you.   :-)
         
         
         
        -------Original Message-------
         
        Date: 5/30/2008 2:03:45 AM
        Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Repost of James P. Davis post on Truth Seeke...
         
        In a message dated 5/27/08 1:14:01 PM Central Daylight Time, prometheus_973@... writes:


        Tough-love is real, and
        in the spiritual tradition it leads (or pushes) Soul onwards towards
        God. I see no love in comforting others with gentle lies, nor in
        telling them they will suffer spiritual decline and misery if they
        leave the Eckankar club. One of the primary reasons I decided to
        leave Eckankar was precisely because the pronouncements of love
        made by the leaders was contradicted all too often by their actions
        and harsh denouncement of those who disagreed with them, or
        those who choose to follow another road, or of other "inferior" paths.


           This section reminds me about the way a lot of people
        react, not so much to the fact of having been lied to, but
        rather to the prospect of having to lie to others themself.
        And viewing as less those who don't believe them. Some-
        times the only way to have the truth - and to tell it too - is
        to disassociate with the party(s) responsible for distorting
        it. IMO. Either that, or try very hard not to repeat the lies.
        To yourself, or to others.

           Some people who's job it is to speak though, sometimes
        it can be difficult. Stay silent. Especially with a lot of people
        coming to you for answers. I'm reminded of "What Happened"
        with Scott McClellen. It was his job to speak, and like a lot of
        people who spoke for others without checking whether all the
        information was true (but "trusting" that it was) they can easily
        find out later (after they do check the information) they lied to
        people without even knowing it.

           IMO, it's probably a sobering experience to learn in hindsight
        what one didn't know in the beginning. And a more sobering ex-
        perience still to watch what happens with others who come to
        learn the truth - the truth that many other people already knew -
        but that they themself didn't want to admit. To other people and
        to theirself.

           It's probably harder being "active" in Eckankar today, than at
        probably any other time in history. For some reason I have the
        hunch this could be true. At least, for those who independently
        choose to review the information for themself.

        Etznab

          



      • prometheus_973
        Hi Etznab, Actually this quote is by former ECKist James Davis and author of the EK book The Rosetta Stone of God. Klemp s quote from the June 2008 H.I.
        Message 3 of 3 , May 30 1:58 PM
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          Hi Etznab,
          Actually this quote is by former ECKist James
          Davis and author of the EK book "The Rosetta
          Stone of God."

          Klemp's quote from the June 2008 H.I. Letter
          on "Tough Love" is:

          "In other words, Tough love, meted out by Our no-
          nonsense tutor, LIFE, has installed a Moral Compass
          in us."

          My response to HK: Except, Klemp still sees it "moral"
          to lie and cover-up the truth about Twitchell's fictional
          writings that became the Eckankar Religion! And, we all
          learn from Life without the need of "donating" money to
          a middleman's vocation! And, where's the "compassion"
          and "empathy" in demonstrating true "love" rather than
          using a 'tough love' justification to control people (with
          fear tactics and threats) and to treat them badly... for
          their own good of course!

          etznab@... wrote:
          >
          prometheus_973@... writes:

          James Davis' reply to Ford Johnson's Truth Seeker site:

          "Tough-love is real, and in the spiritual tradition it
          leads (or pushes) Soul onwards towards God. I see
          no love in comforting others with gentle lies, nor in
          telling them they will suffer spiritual decline and misery
          if they leave the Eckankar club. One of the primary reasons
          I decided to leave Eckankar was precisely because the
          pronouncements of love made by the leaders was contradicted
          all too often by their actions and harsh denouncement of
          those who disagreed with them, or those who choose to
          follow another road, or of other "inferior" paths."

          Etznab:
          This section reminds me about the way a lot of people
          react, not so much to the fact of having been lied to, but
          rather to the prospect of having to lie to others themself.
          And viewing as less those who don't believe them. Some-
          times the only way to have the truth - and to tell it too - is
          to disassociate with the party(s) responsible for distorting
          it. IMO. Either that, or try very hard not to repeat the lies.
          To yourself, or to others.
          >
          Some people who's job it is to speak though, sometimes
          it can be difficult. Stay silent. Especially with a lot of people
          coming to you for answers. I'm reminded of "What Happened"
          with Scott McClellen. It was his job to speak, and like a lot of
          people who spoke for others without checking whether all the
          information was true (but "trusting" that it was) they can easily
          find out later (after they do check the information) they lied to
          people without even knowing it.

          IMO, it's probably a sobering experience to learn in hindsight
          what one didn't know in the beginning. And a more sobering
          experience still to watch what happens with others who come to
          learn the truth - the truth that many other people already knew -
          but that they themself didn't want to admit. To other people and
          to theirself.
          >
          It's probably harder being "active" in Eckankar today, than at
          probably any other time in history. For some reason I have the
          hunch this could be true. At least, for those who independently
          choose to review the information for themself.

          Etznab
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