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Re: Questions About The "Astral Library" :D

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  • jivatmananda
    Hi Elisabeth, Mish, Prometheus and All, Thanks for the links and info. I will definitely look at them soon. Mish, I not sure that Klemp fakes his emr disease,
    Message 1 of 14 , May 5, 2008
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      Hi Elisabeth, Mish, Prometheus and All,

      Thanks for the links and info. I will definitely look at them soon.
      Mish, I not sure that Klemp fakes his emr disease, although he
      obviously uses it as a way to keep his chelas away from the Internet.
      It seems he used to live in a house located within a powerful
      magnetic field that was responsible for the disease. If that story is
      accurate, I wonder why the master of all universes was unable to
      detect the problem from the very beginning. They are many zero
      initiates who are sensitive to energy fields and who would never
      remain in a place with too much electromagnetic pollution.

      While Harry's spiritual vision was unable to detect a most obvious
      problem, Eckists do believe him when he says that the first man and
      the first women came on Earth via teleportation from the astral plane.

      That kind of delusion is actually more serious than the "astral
      library" fantasy. The latter was most likely Harry's desperate attempt
      to reconcile hard facts with the cherished image of his spiritual
      hero. I guess that Harry dreamed of the astral library and woke up
      with a sight of relief. At last, he knew the whole truth about these
      plagiarism accusations. It was time to tell the whole world about it. Lol.

      As mentioned above, the delusion about the first man and women is a
      more serious matter in my opinion. It shows that Harry takes all his
      inner experiences for granted without any need for further validation.
      It's basically a form of mental disorder.

      Jivat


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Re: Questions About The "Astral Library" :D
      >
      > Hi, Jivat!
      >
      > I'll try to do a search on those comparisons. I do believe that it
      > can be easily verified as Twitchell had the habit of copying complete
      > full text, and I don't believe that he was so astute with spelling or
      > that he took the trouble to proof-read for errors. He was smart,
      > but not that smart. Plus, master that he claimed to be, I don't think he
      > envisioned the world of the Internet that is now giving Klemp so
      > much trouble. Klemp's fake emr disease just isn't that contagious
      > to chelas--and keeping them away from cyberspace! LOL!
      >
      > I did find this article by Alice Bailey that explains initiations in
      > which it mentions the astral plane, adepts, etc. Perhaps, this is
      > the source the person posting was addressing? Here's the link
      > to the article:
      >
      >
      http://kingsgarden.org/English/Organizations/OMM.GB/WomenWriters/AliceBailey/ini\
      > tiation/init1008.html
      >
      > I'll try to keep looking. I kind of enjoy investigations! : )
      >
      > Mish
      >
      > p.s. There is a link on this site that compares parts of the Sharyiat,
      > Flute of God and other writings of Twitchell with the Path of the
      > Masters and how they are the same. I'll try to pull that up too!
      >
      > I enjoy your posts!

      >
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Jivat and All! Actually, I think that Klemp has made himself sick over the years. Jumping into freezing water in his failed suicide attempt, messing with
      Message 2 of 14 , May 5, 2008
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        Hi, Jivat and All!

        Actually, I think that Klemp has made himself sick over the
        years. Jumping into freezing water in his failed suicide attempt,
        messing with cleaning chemicals in a closed basement, and
        then his presumed exposure to emr. EMR has been a good
        excuse to caution chelas away from the Internet--how convenient!
        However, the monitors now are mostly LED instead of CRT, so
        there isn't the emr emissions.

        I certainly agree that Klemp is delusional and mentally ill. His
        delusions and mental problems are quite obvious in what he
        has shared about his life story. Anger, frustration, meanness,
        stripping at the airport episode while he continues to think that
        he is "highest consciousness known to mankind" are all indicators
        that Klemp was mentally ill from his youth on. Eckankar attracted
        him like it has some others because of his lopsided views of himself
        and the world around him.

        With that thought, one has to wonder just how sane Joan is to
        have been attracted to eckankar and then to Klemp as she
        worked closely beside him in the office when he was still a
        mahanta wannabee! What was she thinking!! After all, she
        left her first husband, a professor at a leading university, to
        take up with the much lesser educated and much lesser intelligent
        and mentally unstable Klemp. LOL!

        Mish

        p.s. Sharon, thanks for your explanation regarding your recent post
        on ESA. Much appreciated.

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jivatmananda"
        <jivatmananda@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Elisabeth, Mish, Prometheus and All,
        >
        > Thanks for the links and info. I will definitely look at them soon.
        > Mish, I not sure that Klemp fakes his emr disease, although he
        > obviously uses it as a way to keep his chelas away from the Internet.
        > It seems he used to live in a house located within a powerful
        > magnetic field that was responsible for the disease. If that story is
        > accurate, I wonder why the master of all universes was unable to
        > detect the problem from the very beginning. They are many zero
        > initiates who are sensitive to energy fields and who would never
        > remain in a place with too much electromagnetic pollution.
        >
        > While Harry's spiritual vision was unable to detect a most obvious
        > problem, Eckists do believe him when he says that the first man and
        > the first women came on Earth via teleportation from the astral plane.
        >
        > That kind of delusion is actually more serious than the "astral
        > library" fantasy. The latter was most likely Harry's desperate attempt
        > to reconcile hard facts with the cherished image of his spiritual
        > hero. I guess that Harry dreamed of the astral library and woke up
        > with a sight of relief. At last, he knew the whole truth about these
        > plagiarism accusations. It was time to tell the whole world about it. Lol.
        >
        > As mentioned above, the delusion about the first man and women is a
        > more serious matter in my opinion. It shows that Harry takes all his
        > inner experiences for granted without any need for further validation.
        > It's basically a form of mental disorder.
        >
        > Jivat
        >
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Re: Questions About The "Astral Library" :D
        > >
        > > Hi, Jivat!
        > >
        > > I'll try to do a search on those comparisons. I do believe that it
        > > can be easily verified as Twitchell had the habit of copying complete
        > > full text, and I don't believe that he was so astute with spelling or
        > > that he took the trouble to proof-read for errors. He was smart,
        > > but not that smart. Plus, master that he claimed to be, I don't think he
        > > envisioned the world of the Internet that is now giving Klemp so
        > > much trouble. Klemp's fake emr disease just isn't that contagious
        > > to chelas--and keeping them away from cyberspace! LOL!
        > >
        > > I did find this article by Alice Bailey that explains initiations in
        > > which it mentions the astral plane, adepts, etc. Perhaps, this is
        > > the source the person posting was addressing? Here's the link
        > > to the article:
        > >
        > >
        > http://kingsgarden.org/English/Organizations/OMM.GB/WomenWriters/AliceBailey/ini\
        > > tiation/init1008.html
        > >
        > > I'll try to keep looking. I kind of enjoy investigations! : )
        > >
        > > Mish
        > >
        > > p.s. There is a link on this site that compares parts of the Sharyiat,
        > > Flute of God and other writings of Twitchell with the Path of the
        > > Masters and how they are the same. I'll try to pull that up too!
        > >
        > > I enjoy your posts!
        >
        > >
        >
      • etznab@aol.com
        Can you give some examples of the typos from Julian Johnson and Paul Twitchell s writings? Etznab ************** Wondering what s for Dinner Tonight? Get new
        Message 3 of 14 , May 6, 2008
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             Can you give some examples of the typos from
          Julian Johnson and Paul Twitchell's writings?

          Etznab



          **************
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        • etznab@aol.com
          In a message dated 5/5/08 9:48:04 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Liz, That sounds interesting. I would be interested, if you have the time to share, and/or
          Message 4 of 14 , May 6, 2008
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            In a message dated 5/5/08 9:48:04 AM Central Daylight Time, ewickings@... writes:


            To answer your question about Alice Bailey's similarities;  I had posted a bunch of this info here on ESA probably about two years ago?  Sometime around May of 2005?  I'll go in and check to be sure....  I also posted some of the links that take you directly to the source of where I found it. 


            Liz,

               That sounds interesting. I would be interested,
            if you have the time to share, and/or provide some
            links.

               What interests me most, however, are any ex-
            amples where written material from other books and
            authors is/was attributed to Eck Masters. This, IMO,
            is beyond plagiarism.

               Having an eye for history - fact vs. fiction - I find it
            (and found it) most unsettling whenever Eck Masters
            (that I believed in as "real" people) are/were animated
            by historical literature written by someone else. Why
            the Dave/Doug debates, etc., focused on plaigarism
            is understandable, IMO. However, "creating real living
            people" from literature by real living people - when the
            two parties are not the same - is very curious to me.
            It's something I have tried to capture the evolution of
            over time, and in order to better understand how and
            why it came about.

               BTW, this is also beyond (and more than) some
            Astral Library theory/allegation, IMO, because what
            I'm talking about has more to do with the creation of
            fiction and pseudo history than plaigarism, or just a
            matter of copying data from one place to another.

               In Ford Johnson's book was a quote attributed to
            Rebazar Tarzs (pp. 115, 116) that is suspiciously
            similar (IMO) to a quote by Vivekananda in The Path
            of the Masters (Punjab: R.S.S.B, 1985), p. 28. by
            Julian Johnson. More than anything else in Ford's
            book, this was something that disturbed me most.
            It was also what set me on a course to research
            more about Eckankar history for myself.

               I don't know that I've seen many examples of
            similarities between A.B. and P.T.'s writings. It
            would be something I'd like to look at though.

            Etznab

              



            **************
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          • etznab@aol.com
            Liz, Yes, I agree that is a classic example. It is not only in the book E.K.T.S.W. , but Mahanta and Living Eck Master descriptions throughout several of the
            Message 5 of 14 , May 6, 2008
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              Liz,

                 Yes, I agree that is a classic example.

                 It is not only in the book "E.K.T.S.W.", but Mahanta
              and Living Eck Master descriptions throughout several
              of the Eckankar books - including the Shariyat - contain
              illustrations very similar to what Julian Johnson put out
              over 25 years before Eckankar was ever founded! John-
              son does not use the terms "Living Eck Master" or the
              "Mahanta" though. Of course, a person would probably
              not understand what I'm referring to unless they bought
              and/or read The Path of the Masters.

              Etznab



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            • jivatmananda
              Hi Eztnab, As I wrote earlier, I didn t bookmark the website where I found comparisons between Twitchell and Johnson as I didn t intend to post anything at the
              Message 6 of 14 , May 6, 2008
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                Hi Eztnab,

                As I wrote earlier, I didn't bookmark the website where I found
                comparisons between Twitchell and Johnson as I didn't intend to post
                anything at the time. Let's say that the Holy Spirit called me to duty
                in the meantime.

                By the way, I also lost the location of a pdf document from an obscure
                swami that is extremely similar to the Tiger's Fang. If I remember
                correctly, some sentences are identical. I saved it on a hard disk
                that is no longer functional and I don't have the Internet location.
                Do you or anyone else know what I'm speaking about? If not, I think I
                may eventually find it as I remember a bunch of keywords.

                Jivat

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                >
                >
                > Can you give some examples of the typos from
                > Julian Johnson and Paul Twitchell's writings?
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                >
                > **************
                > Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on
                > family favorites at AOL Food.
                >
                > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
                >
              • etznab@aol.com
                In a message dated 5/6/08 9:27:19 PM Central Daylight Time, ... No. I don t know. That book The Secret of Light , by Walter Russell, copyright 1947, however,
                Message 7 of 14 , May 6, 2008
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                  In a message dated 5/6/08 9:27:19 PM Central Daylight Time, jivatmananda@... writes:


                  By the way, I also lost the location of a pdf document from an obscure
                  swami that is extremely similar to the Tiger's Fang. If I remember
                  correctly, some sentences are identical. I saved it on a hard disk
                  that is no longer functional and I don't have the Internet location.
                  Do you or anyone else know what I'm speaking about? If not, I think I
                  may eventually find it as I remember a bunch of keywords.


                     No. I don't know.

                     That book "The Secret of Light", by Walter Russell,
                  copyright 1947, however, might have "inspired" some
                  parts of The Tiger's Fang though. Example:

                  "Truth is simple. Balance is simple. Rhythmic balanced   
                  interchange between all pairs of opposite expressions in
                  Natural phenomena, and in human relations, is the con-
                  sumate art of God's universe of Light."

                     [From THE SECRET OF LIGHT (p.2) by Walter Russell,  
                  copyright 1947]

                     I haven't read this book by Russell myself, but the data
                  I shared with you came from a website link.

                  Etznab




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