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Questions About The "Astral Library" :D

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  • jivatmananda
    Hello All, I m sure that at least some of you are visiting the astral library on a regular basis, so I have a few questions for you guys. I recently noticed
    Message 1 of 14 , May 4, 2008
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      Hello All,

      I'm sure that at least some of you are visiting the "astral library"
      on a regular basis, so I have a few questions for you guys. I recently
      noticed that both Paul Twitchell and Julian Johnson copied the same
      typos from the "source manuscript" in the "astral library". Julian
      Johnson first, then Paul Twichell several years later.

      Is it an "astral custom" to copy typos from "astral source
      manuscripts"? After all, there must be a major reason why both authors
      left these typos in their respective physical books. While visiting
      the astral library, did you find a notice like this: "You are free to
      copy anything, but you must leave the typos. Offenders will be
      prosecuted and are liable to three months of astral hell"?

      Why are there typos on these "astral manuscripts" in the first place?
      Do they hire cheap labour to write them? Don't they have enough astral
      money to hire astral proofreaders?

      :D

      Jivat
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Jivat, Maybe the Powers That Be hired Klemp to do the proofreading, therefore, the errors! HK s/b persecuted, let alone prosecuted, for his participation in
      Message 2 of 14 , May 4, 2008
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        Hi Jivat,
        Maybe the Powers That Be hired Klemp to do
        the proofreading, therefore, the errors! HK
        s/b persecuted, let alone prosecuted, for his
        participation in this ongoing fraud/hoax and
        for the coverups involving the EK (PT's)
        plagiarisms.

        Do you have any examples of these typos
        that PT copied from the Path of the Masters?

        It's interesting that Klemp has admitted that
        Twitchell "compiled" (plagiarized) information,
        but never gave a logical explanation. Instead,
        ECKists will believe the "Astral Library" version,
        thereby, switching their brains off! I guess most
        of these ECKists need to believe in something,
        but Why in everything out of Klemp's mouth!

        Some ECKists will admit that Twitchell took the
        best from all of the religions of the World as he
        created Eckankar with power/status for himself.

        However, what is the need for a LEM since these
        EK teachings of Paul's aren't "pure" to begin with!
        Just because these compiled and condensed teachings
        are the "best" that religion has to offer (in Paul's
        opinion) doesn't mean that these teachings/opinions/
        experiences (from others) are a valid source of Divine
        Truth for each and every individual Soul. Religions,
        afterall, represent a generalized/group and lower
        (consciousness) version of Divine Truth and use
        specific dogmas and rules to control their followers.
        This is the only thing that really make them unique!

        None teach or expect their followers to achieve
        Spiritual Freedom, Self-Mastery or God-Realization
        in this lifetime... there's always one more step or another
        Catch-22 to distract and hold the follower with more
        and more unfulfilled promises! Religion is a KAL tool
        used to side-track and fool the masses while those
        who see beyond these ancient slight-of-hand tricks
        of mankind's lower nature, eventually, find Truth and
        Freedom, and True Love via their Own Personal Journey
        with Divine Spirit.

        Prometheus




        jivatmananda wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        >
        > I'm sure that at least some of you are visiting the "astral library"
        > on a regular basis, so I have a few questions for you guys. I recently
        > noticed that both Paul Twitchell and Julian Johnson copied the same
        > typos from the "source manuscript" in the "astral library". Julian
        > Johnson first, then Paul Twichell several years later.
        >
        > Is it an "astral custom" to copy typos from "astral source
        > manuscripts"? After all, there must be a major reason why both authors
        > left these typos in their respective physical books. While visiting
        > the astral library, did you find a notice like this: "You are free to
        > copy anything, but you must leave the typos. Offenders will be
        > prosecuted and are liable to three months of astral hell"?
        >
        > Why are there typos on these "astral manuscripts" in the first place?
        > Do they hire cheap labour to write them? Don't they have enough astral
        > money to hire astral proofreaders?
        >
        > :D
        >
        > Jivat
        >
      • Elizabeth
        Prometheus wrote: Some ECKists will admit that Twitchell took the best from all of the religions of the World as he created Eckankar with power/status for
        Message 3 of 14 , May 5, 2008
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          Prometheus wrote:
           
          Some ECKists will admit that Twitchell took the
          best from all of the religions of the World as he
          created Eckankar with power/status for himself.
           
          However, what is the need for a LEM since these
          EK teachings of Paul's aren't "pure" to begin with!
          Just because these compiled and condensed teachings
          are the "best" that religion has to offer (in Paul's
          opinion) doesn't mean that these teachings/opinions/
          experiences (from others) are a valid source of Divine
          Truth for each and every individual Soul. Religions,
          afterall, represent a generalized/group and lower
          (consciousness) version of Divine Truth and use
          specific dogmas and rules to control their followers.
          This is the only thing that really make them unique!
           
           
           
          ....  What I find laughable is the "stick to the Astral Library" story no matter how stupid it sounds by Klempankar and it's membership!
           
          To believe that "Astral Library" BS, or the story that Twit had to gather the truths from the four corners of the universe and bring it back as "Eckankar" as the only true path back to God is ridiculous!        
           
          I can give an example of how Twit compiled his "best" religion...  By stealing from other authors at the library where Gail worked;  Julian Johnson, and another example is Max Freedom Long re- creator of the Huna religion.  (Huna which means "secret")  Ever wonder why so many of the secret initiation words sounded Hawaiian!   I found this author's name in one of Twit's "Letters to Gail" which I find unusual since Twit rarely gave record of where he got his information... 
           
          I was able to purchase original copy books by Max Freedom Long and his Huna teachings as well as a couple VERY old letters and newsletters written by Long to his small membership back in 1953 (the postage stamp was only 2 cents!
           
          I have threatened to post some of the similarities here from these books and the Huna religion, but life just keeps me busy!  Eventually I will take a couple hours to post some of what I found....  Maybe I'll have some free time someday?  LOL
           
          Prometheus isn't there a link or links on ESA where some of the copy paste and typo examples are given at one of  David Lane's sites?
           
          Liz  (spending time today in my garden!)              
        • jivatmananda
          Hi Prometheus, It s something I found while navigating from one site to another using their back links. I landed on a page that compared quotes from Paul
          Message 4 of 14 , May 5, 2008
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            Hi Prometheus,

            It's something I found while navigating from one site to another using
            their back links. I landed on a page that compared quotes from Paul
            Twitchell and Julian Johnson. It was either a website of David Lane or
            borrowed material from his works. Unfortunately, I didn't bookmark
            it as I didn't intend to post anything at the time. If you have access
            to David Lane, I would suggest contacting him to get the exact
            information. I understand that you may want factual data to back up
            posts on your message board, so please free to delete my post if we
            can't find it at this time.

            I also lost the address of a post that displayed troubling
            similarities between quotes from the Sharyiat and Alice Bailey's
            descriptions of the initiations. I thought it was on your message
            board, but I can't find it and I didn't find it on similar message boards
            either. One thing is sure: It is a post, not a regular web page. Do
            you or someone else know what I'm talking about?

            Jivat


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Jivat,
            > Maybe the Powers That Be hired Klemp to do
            > the proofreading, therefore, the errors! HK
            > s/b persecuted, let alone prosecuted, for his
            > participation in this ongoing fraud/hoax and
            > for the coverups involving the EK (PT's)
            > plagiarisms.
            >
            > Do you have any examples of these typos
            > that PT copied from the Path of the Masters?
            >
            > It's interesting that Klemp has admitted that
            > Twitchell "compiled" (plagiarized) information,
            > but never gave a logical explanation. Instead,
            > ECKists will believe the "Astral Library" version,
            > thereby, switching their brains off! I guess most
            > of these ECKists need to believe in something,
            > but Why in everything out of Klemp's mouth!
            >
            > Some ECKists will admit that Twitchell took the
            > best from all of the religions of the World as he
            > created Eckankar with power/status for himself.
            >
            > However, what is the need for a LEM since these
            > EK teachings of Paul's aren't "pure" to begin with!
            > Just because these compiled and condensed teachings
            > are the "best" that religion has to offer (in Paul's
            > opinion) doesn't mean that these teachings/opinions/
            > experiences (from others) are a valid source of Divine
            > Truth for each and every individual Soul. Religions,
            > afterall, represent a generalized/group and lower
            > (consciousness) version of Divine Truth and use
            > specific dogmas and rules to control their followers.
            > This is the only thing that really make them unique!
            >
            > None teach or expect their followers to achieve
            > Spiritual Freedom, Self-Mastery or God-Realization
            > in this lifetime... there's always one more step or another
            > Catch-22 to distract and hold the follower with more
            > and more unfulfilled promises! Religion is a KAL tool
            > used to side-track and fool the masses while those
            > who see beyond these ancient slight-of-hand tricks
            > of mankind's lower nature, eventually, find Truth and
            > Freedom, and True Love via their Own Personal Journey
            > with Divine Spirit.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > jivatmananda wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello All,
            > >
            > > I'm sure that at least some of you are visiting the "astral library"
            > > on a regular basis, so I have a few questions for you guys. I recently
            > > noticed that both Paul Twitchell and Julian Johnson copied the same
            > > typos from the "source manuscript" in the "astral library". Julian
            > > Johnson first, then Paul Twichell several years later.
            > >
            > > Is it an "astral custom" to copy typos from "astral source
            > > manuscripts"? After all, there must be a major reason why both authors
            > > left these typos in their respective physical books. While visiting
            > > the astral library, did you find a notice like this: "You are free to
            > > copy anything, but you must leave the typos. Offenders will be
            > > prosecuted and are liable to three months of astral hell"?
            > >
            > > Why are there typos on these "astral manuscripts" in the first place?
            > > Do they hire cheap labour to write them? Don't they have enough astral
            > > money to hire astral proofreaders?
            > >
            > > :D
            > >
            > > Jivat
            > >
            >
          • Elizabeth
            Hi Jivat, To answer your question about Alice Bailey s similarities; I had posted a bunch of this info here on ESA probably about two years ago? Sometime
            Message 5 of 14 , May 5, 2008
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              Hi Jivat,
               
              To answer your question about Alice Bailey's similarities;  I had posted a bunch of this info here on ESA probably about two years ago?  Sometime around May of 2005?  I'll go in and check to be sure....  I also posted some of the links that take you directly to the source of where I found it. 
               
              Liz
               
              -------Original Message-------
               
               
              I also lost the address of a post that displayed troubling
              similarities between quotes from the Sharyiat and Alice Bailey's
              descriptions of the initiations. I thought it was on your message
              board, but I can't find it and I didn't find it on similar message boards
              either. One thing is sure: It is a post, not a regular web page. Do
              you or someone else know what I'm talking about?
               
              Jivat
               
               
            • mishmisha9
              Re: Questions About The Astral Library :D Hi, Jivat! I ll try to do a search on those comparisons. I do believe that it can be easily verified as Twitchell
              Message 6 of 14 , May 5, 2008
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                Re: Questions About The "Astral Library" :D

                Hi, Jivat!

                I'll try to do a search on those comparisons. I do believe that it
                can be easily verified as Twitchell had the habit of copying complete
                full text, and I don't believe that he was so astute with spelling or
                that he took the trouble to proof-read for errors. He was smart,
                but not that smart. Plus, master that he claimed to be, I don't think he
                envisioned the world of the Internet that is now giving Klemp so
                much trouble. Klemp's fake emr disease just isn't that contagious
                to chelas--and keeping them away from cyberspace! LOL!

                I did find this article by Alice Bailey that explains initiations in
                which it mentions the astral plane, adepts, etc. Perhaps, this is
                the source the person posting was addressing? Here's the link
                to the article:

                http://kingsgarden.org/English/Organizations/OMM.GB/WomenWriters/AliceBailey/ini\
                tiation/init1008.html

                I'll try to keep looking. I kind of enjoy investigations! : )

                Mish

                p.s. There is a link on this site that compares parts of the Sharyiat,
                Flute of God and other writings of Twitchell with the Path of the
                Masters and how they are the same. I'll try to pull that up too!

                I enjoy your posts!
                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jivatmananda"
                <jivatmananda@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Prometheus,
                >
                > It's something I found while navigating from one site to another using
                > their back links. I landed on a page that compared quotes from Paul
                > Twitchell and Julian Johnson. It was either a website of David Lane or
                > borrowed material from his works. Unfortunately, I didn't bookmark
                > it as I didn't intend to post anything at the time. If you have access
                > to David Lane, I would suggest contacting him to get the exact
                > information. I understand that you may want factual data to back up
                > posts on your message board, so please free to delete my post if we
                > can't find it at this time.
                >
                > I also lost the address of a post that displayed troubling
                > similarities between quotes from the Sharyiat and Alice Bailey's
                > descriptions of the initiations. I thought it was on your message
                > board, but I can't find it and I didn't find it on similar message boards
                > either. One thing is sure: It is a post, not a regular web page. Do
                > you or someone else know what I'm talking about?
                >
                > Jivat
                >
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Jivat,
                > > Maybe the Powers That Be hired Klemp to do
                > > the proofreading, therefore, the errors! HK
                > > s/b persecuted, let alone prosecuted, for his
                > > participation in this ongoing fraud/hoax and
                > > for the coverups involving the EK (PT's)
                > > plagiarisms.
                > >
                > > Do you have any examples of these typos
                > > that PT copied from the Path of the Masters?
                > >
                > > It's interesting that Klemp has admitted that
                > > Twitchell "compiled" (plagiarized) information,
                > > but never gave a logical explanation. Instead,
                > > ECKists will believe the "Astral Library" version,
                > > thereby, switching their brains off! I guess most
                > > of these ECKists need to believe in something,
                > > but Why in everything out of Klemp's mouth!
                > >
                > > Some ECKists will admit that Twitchell took the
                > > best from all of the religions of the World as he
                > > created Eckankar with power/status for himself.
                > >
                > > However, what is the need for a LEM since these
                > > EK teachings of Paul's aren't "pure" to begin with!
                > > Just because these compiled and condensed teachings
                > > are the "best" that religion has to offer (in Paul's
                > > opinion) doesn't mean that these teachings/opinions/
                > > experiences (from others) are a valid source of Divine
                > > Truth for each and every individual Soul. Religions,
                > > afterall, represent a generalized/group and lower
                > > (consciousness) version of Divine Truth and use
                > > specific dogmas and rules to control their followers.
                > > This is the only thing that really make them unique!
                > >
                > > None teach or expect their followers to achieve
                > > Spiritual Freedom, Self-Mastery or God-Realization
                > > in this lifetime... there's always one more step or another
                > > Catch-22 to distract and hold the follower with more
                > > and more unfulfilled promises! Religion is a KAL tool
                > > used to side-track and fool the masses while those
                > > who see beyond these ancient slight-of-hand tricks
                > > of mankind's lower nature, eventually, find Truth and
                > > Freedom, and True Love via their Own Personal Journey
                > > with Divine Spirit.
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > jivatmananda wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hello All,
                > > >
                > > > I'm sure that at least some of you are visiting the "astral library"
                > > > on a regular basis, so I have a few questions for you guys. I recently
                > > > noticed that both Paul Twitchell and Julian Johnson copied the same
                > > > typos from the "source manuscript" in the "astral library". Julian
                > > > Johnson first, then Paul Twichell several years later.
                > > >
                > > > Is it an "astral custom" to copy typos from "astral source
                > > > manuscripts"? After all, there must be a major reason why both authors
                > > > left these typos in their respective physical books. While visiting
                > > > the astral library, did you find a notice like this: "You are free to
                > > > copy anything, but you must leave the typos. Offenders will be
                > > > prosecuted and are liable to three months of astral hell"?
                > > >
                > > > Why are there typos on these "astral manuscripts" in the first place?
                > > > Do they hire cheap labour to write them? Don't they have enough astral
                > > > money to hire astral proofreaders?
                > > >
                > > > :D
                > > >
                > > > Jivat
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Elizabeth
                Here is one of those comparisons: Quote from Paul Twitchell s book Eckankar, The Key to Secret Worlds , last paragraph on pg 75, and continued on to pg 76.:
                Message 7 of 14 , May 5, 2008
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                   Here is one of those comparisons:
                   
                  Quote from Paul Twitchell's book "Eckankar, The Key to Secret
                  Worlds", last paragraph on pg 75, and continued on to pg 76.:

                  "The first thing about a Mahanta is that he never boasts of his
                  Spiritual powers or attainments. If any man claims to have attained
                  The highest in spiritual development, that claim of itself may be
                  Taken as conclusive proof that he has not attained much.

                  The Mahanta will never find fault, blame others, or complain of
                  Treatment at the hands of others. Even if you abuse a Mahanta, he
                  Will not answer angrily, nor will he speak of it afterwards. They
                  Never speak of their hard luck, or the ingratitude of their
                  Beneficiaries.

                  They speak no ill and they never lecture others concerning their
                  Conduct or shortcomings. Neither do they punish anybody. They give
                  Only of the light of God and love. Another point is that they never
                  Give to ascetic practices, or unreasonable austerities. They never
                  Beg for a living and are self-supporting. This is because the
                  Traveler is always the giver, but he never allows any of those who
                  Follow him to live in idleness." End quote.


                  And from "The Path of the Masters" by Julian P. Johnson (the primary
                  Book Twitchell used to create Eckankar) there is listed
                  Ten "Objective Indices of Mastership" on pages 227-230.

                  1. "... Real Masters never charge for their services..."

                  2. "Masters never boast of their mastership or of their spiritual
                  Powers or attainments."

                  3. "Masters never complain of their treatment at the hands of
                  Others."

                  4. "Masters never find fault or blame others either to their faces
                  Or behind their backs, no matter what the provocation."

                  5. "Masters never punish anybody, even their worst enemies or such
                  As have mistreated them."

                  6. "Masters are never given to ascetic practices or unreasonable
                  Austerities."

                  7. "Masters never go about begging their living."

                  8. "A real Master never performs miracles for public exibition."

                  9. "All genuine Masters teach and practice the Audible Life Stream,
                  Or the Sound Current, called in Hindi the Shabd."

                  10. "If any yogi or other man claiming to be a Master teaches that
                  Brahm Lok or the region of Brahm is the highest of all heavens, and
                  That Brahm is the Supreme God, then you may know of a certainty that
                  He is not a Master."
                • jivatmananda
                  Hi Elisabeth, Mish, Prometheus and All, Thanks for the links and info. I will definitely look at them soon. Mish, I not sure that Klemp fakes his emr disease,
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 5, 2008
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                    Hi Elisabeth, Mish, Prometheus and All,

                    Thanks for the links and info. I will definitely look at them soon.
                    Mish, I not sure that Klemp fakes his emr disease, although he
                    obviously uses it as a way to keep his chelas away from the Internet.
                    It seems he used to live in a house located within a powerful
                    magnetic field that was responsible for the disease. If that story is
                    accurate, I wonder why the master of all universes was unable to
                    detect the problem from the very beginning. They are many zero
                    initiates who are sensitive to energy fields and who would never
                    remain in a place with too much electromagnetic pollution.

                    While Harry's spiritual vision was unable to detect a most obvious
                    problem, Eckists do believe him when he says that the first man and
                    the first women came on Earth via teleportation from the astral plane.

                    That kind of delusion is actually more serious than the "astral
                    library" fantasy. The latter was most likely Harry's desperate attempt
                    to reconcile hard facts with the cherished image of his spiritual
                    hero. I guess that Harry dreamed of the astral library and woke up
                    with a sight of relief. At last, he knew the whole truth about these
                    plagiarism accusations. It was time to tell the whole world about it. Lol.

                    As mentioned above, the delusion about the first man and women is a
                    more serious matter in my opinion. It shows that Harry takes all his
                    inner experiences for granted without any need for further validation.
                    It's basically a form of mental disorder.

                    Jivat


                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                    <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Re: Questions About The "Astral Library" :D
                    >
                    > Hi, Jivat!
                    >
                    > I'll try to do a search on those comparisons. I do believe that it
                    > can be easily verified as Twitchell had the habit of copying complete
                    > full text, and I don't believe that he was so astute with spelling or
                    > that he took the trouble to proof-read for errors. He was smart,
                    > but not that smart. Plus, master that he claimed to be, I don't think he
                    > envisioned the world of the Internet that is now giving Klemp so
                    > much trouble. Klemp's fake emr disease just isn't that contagious
                    > to chelas--and keeping them away from cyberspace! LOL!
                    >
                    > I did find this article by Alice Bailey that explains initiations in
                    > which it mentions the astral plane, adepts, etc. Perhaps, this is
                    > the source the person posting was addressing? Here's the link
                    > to the article:
                    >
                    >
                    http://kingsgarden.org/English/Organizations/OMM.GB/WomenWriters/AliceBailey/ini\
                    > tiation/init1008.html
                    >
                    > I'll try to keep looking. I kind of enjoy investigations! : )
                    >
                    > Mish
                    >
                    > p.s. There is a link on this site that compares parts of the Sharyiat,
                    > Flute of God and other writings of Twitchell with the Path of the
                    > Masters and how they are the same. I'll try to pull that up too!
                    >
                    > I enjoy your posts!

                    >
                  • mishmisha9
                    Hi, Jivat and All! Actually, I think that Klemp has made himself sick over the years. Jumping into freezing water in his failed suicide attempt, messing with
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 5, 2008
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                      Hi, Jivat and All!

                      Actually, I think that Klemp has made himself sick over the
                      years. Jumping into freezing water in his failed suicide attempt,
                      messing with cleaning chemicals in a closed basement, and
                      then his presumed exposure to emr. EMR has been a good
                      excuse to caution chelas away from the Internet--how convenient!
                      However, the monitors now are mostly LED instead of CRT, so
                      there isn't the emr emissions.

                      I certainly agree that Klemp is delusional and mentally ill. His
                      delusions and mental problems are quite obvious in what he
                      has shared about his life story. Anger, frustration, meanness,
                      stripping at the airport episode while he continues to think that
                      he is "highest consciousness known to mankind" are all indicators
                      that Klemp was mentally ill from his youth on. Eckankar attracted
                      him like it has some others because of his lopsided views of himself
                      and the world around him.

                      With that thought, one has to wonder just how sane Joan is to
                      have been attracted to eckankar and then to Klemp as she
                      worked closely beside him in the office when he was still a
                      mahanta wannabee! What was she thinking!! After all, she
                      left her first husband, a professor at a leading university, to
                      take up with the much lesser educated and much lesser intelligent
                      and mentally unstable Klemp. LOL!

                      Mish

                      p.s. Sharon, thanks for your explanation regarding your recent post
                      on ESA. Much appreciated.

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jivatmananda"
                      <jivatmananda@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Elisabeth, Mish, Prometheus and All,
                      >
                      > Thanks for the links and info. I will definitely look at them soon.
                      > Mish, I not sure that Klemp fakes his emr disease, although he
                      > obviously uses it as a way to keep his chelas away from the Internet.
                      > It seems he used to live in a house located within a powerful
                      > magnetic field that was responsible for the disease. If that story is
                      > accurate, I wonder why the master of all universes was unable to
                      > detect the problem from the very beginning. They are many zero
                      > initiates who are sensitive to energy fields and who would never
                      > remain in a place with too much electromagnetic pollution.
                      >
                      > While Harry's spiritual vision was unable to detect a most obvious
                      > problem, Eckists do believe him when he says that the first man and
                      > the first women came on Earth via teleportation from the astral plane.
                      >
                      > That kind of delusion is actually more serious than the "astral
                      > library" fantasy. The latter was most likely Harry's desperate attempt
                      > to reconcile hard facts with the cherished image of his spiritual
                      > hero. I guess that Harry dreamed of the astral library and woke up
                      > with a sight of relief. At last, he knew the whole truth about these
                      > plagiarism accusations. It was time to tell the whole world about it. Lol.
                      >
                      > As mentioned above, the delusion about the first man and women is a
                      > more serious matter in my opinion. It shows that Harry takes all his
                      > inner experiences for granted without any need for further validation.
                      > It's basically a form of mental disorder.
                      >
                      > Jivat
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                      > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Re: Questions About The "Astral Library" :D
                      > >
                      > > Hi, Jivat!
                      > >
                      > > I'll try to do a search on those comparisons. I do believe that it
                      > > can be easily verified as Twitchell had the habit of copying complete
                      > > full text, and I don't believe that he was so astute with spelling or
                      > > that he took the trouble to proof-read for errors. He was smart,
                      > > but not that smart. Plus, master that he claimed to be, I don't think he
                      > > envisioned the world of the Internet that is now giving Klemp so
                      > > much trouble. Klemp's fake emr disease just isn't that contagious
                      > > to chelas--and keeping them away from cyberspace! LOL!
                      > >
                      > > I did find this article by Alice Bailey that explains initiations in
                      > > which it mentions the astral plane, adepts, etc. Perhaps, this is
                      > > the source the person posting was addressing? Here's the link
                      > > to the article:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > http://kingsgarden.org/English/Organizations/OMM.GB/WomenWriters/AliceBailey/ini\
                      > > tiation/init1008.html
                      > >
                      > > I'll try to keep looking. I kind of enjoy investigations! : )
                      > >
                      > > Mish
                      > >
                      > > p.s. There is a link on this site that compares parts of the Sharyiat,
                      > > Flute of God and other writings of Twitchell with the Path of the
                      > > Masters and how they are the same. I'll try to pull that up too!
                      > >
                      > > I enjoy your posts!
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                    • etznab@aol.com
                      Can you give some examples of the typos from Julian Johnson and Paul Twitchell s writings? Etznab ************** Wondering what s for Dinner Tonight? Get new
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 6, 2008
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                           Can you give some examples of the typos from
                        Julian Johnson and Paul Twitchell's writings?

                        Etznab



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                      • etznab@aol.com
                        In a message dated 5/5/08 9:48:04 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Liz, That sounds interesting. I would be interested, if you have the time to share, and/or
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 6, 2008
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                          In a message dated 5/5/08 9:48:04 AM Central Daylight Time, ewickings@... writes:


                          To answer your question about Alice Bailey's similarities;  I had posted a bunch of this info here on ESA probably about two years ago?  Sometime around May of 2005?  I'll go in and check to be sure....  I also posted some of the links that take you directly to the source of where I found it. 


                          Liz,

                             That sounds interesting. I would be interested,
                          if you have the time to share, and/or provide some
                          links.

                             What interests me most, however, are any ex-
                          amples where written material from other books and
                          authors is/was attributed to Eck Masters. This, IMO,
                          is beyond plagiarism.

                             Having an eye for history - fact vs. fiction - I find it
                          (and found it) most unsettling whenever Eck Masters
                          (that I believed in as "real" people) are/were animated
                          by historical literature written by someone else. Why
                          the Dave/Doug debates, etc., focused on plaigarism
                          is understandable, IMO. However, "creating real living
                          people" from literature by real living people - when the
                          two parties are not the same - is very curious to me.
                          It's something I have tried to capture the evolution of
                          over time, and in order to better understand how and
                          why it came about.

                             BTW, this is also beyond (and more than) some
                          Astral Library theory/allegation, IMO, because what
                          I'm talking about has more to do with the creation of
                          fiction and pseudo history than plaigarism, or just a
                          matter of copying data from one place to another.

                             In Ford Johnson's book was a quote attributed to
                          Rebazar Tarzs (pp. 115, 116) that is suspiciously
                          similar (IMO) to a quote by Vivekananda in The Path
                          of the Masters (Punjab: R.S.S.B, 1985), p. 28. by
                          Julian Johnson. More than anything else in Ford's
                          book, this was something that disturbed me most.
                          It was also what set me on a course to research
                          more about Eckankar history for myself.

                             I don't know that I've seen many examples of
                          similarities between A.B. and P.T.'s writings. It
                          would be something I'd like to look at though.

                          Etznab

                            



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                        • etznab@aol.com
                          Liz, Yes, I agree that is a classic example. It is not only in the book E.K.T.S.W. , but Mahanta and Living Eck Master descriptions throughout several of the
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 6, 2008
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                            Liz,

                               Yes, I agree that is a classic example.

                               It is not only in the book "E.K.T.S.W.", but Mahanta
                            and Living Eck Master descriptions throughout several
                            of the Eckankar books - including the Shariyat - contain
                            illustrations very similar to what Julian Johnson put out
                            over 25 years before Eckankar was ever founded! John-
                            son does not use the terms "Living Eck Master" or the
                            "Mahanta" though. Of course, a person would probably
                            not understand what I'm referring to unless they bought
                            and/or read The Path of the Masters.

                            Etznab



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                          • jivatmananda
                            Hi Eztnab, As I wrote earlier, I didn t bookmark the website where I found comparisons between Twitchell and Johnson as I didn t intend to post anything at the
                            Message 13 of 14 , May 6, 2008
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                              Hi Eztnab,

                              As I wrote earlier, I didn't bookmark the website where I found
                              comparisons between Twitchell and Johnson as I didn't intend to post
                              anything at the time. Let's say that the Holy Spirit called me to duty
                              in the meantime.

                              By the way, I also lost the location of a pdf document from an obscure
                              swami that is extremely similar to the Tiger's Fang. If I remember
                              correctly, some sentences are identical. I saved it on a hard disk
                              that is no longer functional and I don't have the Internet location.
                              Do you or anyone else know what I'm speaking about? If not, I think I
                              may eventually find it as I remember a bunch of keywords.

                              Jivat

                              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Can you give some examples of the typos from
                              > Julian Johnson and Paul Twitchell's writings?
                              >
                              > Etznab
                              >
                              >
                              > **************
                              > Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on
                              > family favorites at AOL Food.
                              >
                              > (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
                              >
                            • etznab@aol.com
                              In a message dated 5/6/08 9:27:19 PM Central Daylight Time, ... No. I don t know. That book The Secret of Light , by Walter Russell, copyright 1947, however,
                              Message 14 of 14 , May 6, 2008
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                                In a message dated 5/6/08 9:27:19 PM Central Daylight Time, jivatmananda@... writes:


                                By the way, I also lost the location of a pdf document from an obscure
                                swami that is extremely similar to the Tiger's Fang. If I remember
                                correctly, some sentences are identical. I saved it on a hard disk
                                that is no longer functional and I don't have the Internet location.
                                Do you or anyone else know what I'm speaking about? If not, I think I
                                may eventually find it as I remember a bunch of keywords.


                                   No. I don't know.

                                   That book "The Secret of Light", by Walter Russell,
                                copyright 1947, however, might have "inspired" some
                                parts of The Tiger's Fang though. Example:

                                "Truth is simple. Balance is simple. Rhythmic balanced   
                                interchange between all pairs of opposite expressions in
                                Natural phenomena, and in human relations, is the con-
                                sumate art of God's universe of Light."

                                   [From THE SECRET OF LIGHT (p.2) by Walter Russell,  
                                copyright 1947]

                                   I haven't read this book by Russell myself, but the data
                                I shared with you came from a website link.

                                Etznab




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