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Re: Harry's Takeover In 6 Easy To Understand Steps

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  • jivatmananda
    Hi Prometheus and All, You wrote that certain Eckankar financial records are being hidden and made unavailable to some Board members. I will play the devil s
    Message 1 of 13 , May 1, 2008
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      Hi Prometheus and All,

      You wrote that certain Eckankar financial records are being hidden and
      made unavailable to some Board members. I will play the devil's
      advocate here. All Eckists know or should know that financial data are
      being hidden from them.

      Therefore, they have nothing to complain about when Eckankar spends or
      invests their donations and membership dues at its sole discretion.
      Eckankar has every right to build an outdoor chapel in a State where
      there is only one "week of summer", as Harry so humorously said in
      1986. Members who disagree with that kind of decisions just need not
      to donate their hard-earned money to Eckankar.

      Jivat

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Jivat and All,
      > It really is too bad that Klemp didn't find
      > it "necessary" to even acknowledge Darwin's
      > death let alone say anything "kind!" As far as
      > what is "true;" when all the facts and the
      > real truth is balanced out I doubt that what
      > Darwin did, as LEM/Mahanta, was no worse than
      > what Twitchell had done... and Klemp has probably
      > preformed more misdeeds than both PT & DG combined!
      > This is why the EK finances (salaries and properties,
      > etc.) are hidden from the general EK membership.
      > And, certain EK financial records are being hidden
      > and made unavailable to some Board members!
      > Klemp chastised and sued Darwin concerning finances
      > and then moved Eckankar to MN. where he was not
      > required to divulge the orgs spending practices
      > under state law. But, What does HK have to hide?
      > Can't the EK finances withstand the light of day?
      >
      > It's interesting why a letter concerning Darwin's
      > Translation wasn't sent out with other mailings.
      > This would have saved mailing costs ($), but Klemp
      > chose not to send anything. What is Harry waiting
      > for? It's inappropriate for Klemp to wait any longer
      > and to continue to ignore Darwin. Or, is HK just
      > incapable of showing any love and compassion,
      > or to have an ability to let go of his anger? Probably!
      >
      > Prometheus
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Jivat and All! The non-disclosure of funds and expenditures in eckankar should have raised red flags, but I guess because money is considered material and
      Message 2 of 13 , May 1, 2008
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        Hi, Jivat and All!

        The non-disclosure of funds and expenditures in eckankar should have
        raised red flags, but I guess because money is considered material and
        eckists are not to dwell on or covet the material that they have buried
        their heads in the sand and trusted their mahanta!

        I was never a member but attended and participated for a while, off
        and on, a christian church group in my former community. Please
        note I said "former community" as I no longer live there. Some in the
        group must have gotten my present address some how. They continue
        to send me church mailings which include their periodic financial
        statements. Obviously, those religious groups who have nothing to
        hide do not conceal their finances from anyone. The fact that eckankar
        keeps its chelas totally in the dark about its finances, investments and
        purchased properties shows they are being deceptive and very dishonest
        because they "need" to hide it. Something is "rotten in Denmark" indeed!

        The problem with eckists regarding the money is that they are not
        complaining! They don't care about the money in eckankar as long as
        they can scrape together their annual membership fee so that they will
        still be eligible for their initiations. Eckists are so wanting those
        initiations that they don't care if eckankar is fraudulent or not!

        So now I wonder how this strained U.S. economy will play out with the
        eckists. I wonder how many will fall behind in paying their membership
        dues? If they do, I would guess that they will be surprised that their
        beloved eckankar will still be demanding their money by arranging
        monthly payments. Eckists will be reminded that there is no free ride!

        But this brings us to a brighter note! How many potential new members
        will pass because of that membership fee (donation)? It just might be
        hard times for Klemp and company!

        Mish




        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jivatmananda"
        <jivatmananda@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Prometheus and All,
        >
        > You wrote that certain Eckankar financial records are being hidden and
        > made unavailable to some Board members. I will play the devil's
        > advocate here. All Eckists know or should know that financial data are
        > being hidden from them.
        >
        > Therefore, they have nothing to complain about when Eckankar spends or
        > invests their donations and membership dues at its sole discretion.
        > Eckankar has every right to build an outdoor chapel in a State where
        > there is only one "week of summer", as Harry so humorously said in
        > 1986. Members who disagree with that kind of decisions just need not
        > to donate their hard-earned money to Eckankar.
        >
        > Jivat
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Jivat and All,
        > > It really is too bad that Klemp didn't find
        > > it "necessary" to even acknowledge Darwin's
        > > death let alone say anything "kind!" As far as
        > > what is "true;" when all the facts and the
        > > real truth is balanced out I doubt that what
        > > Darwin did, as LEM/Mahanta, was no worse than
        > > what Twitchell had done... and Klemp has probably
        > > preformed more misdeeds than both PT & DG combined!
        > > This is why the EK finances (salaries and properties,
        > > etc.) are hidden from the general EK membership.
        > > And, certain EK financial records are being hidden
        > > and made unavailable to some Board members!
        > > Klemp chastised and sued Darwin concerning finances
        > > and then moved Eckankar to MN. where he was not
        > > required to divulge the orgs spending practices
        > > under state law. But, What does HK have to hide?
        > > Can't the EK finances withstand the light of day?
        > >
        > > It's interesting why a letter concerning Darwin's
        > > Translation wasn't sent out with other mailings.
        > > This would have saved mailing costs ($), but Klemp
        > > chose not to send anything. What is Harry waiting
        > > for? It's inappropriate for Klemp to wait any longer
        > > and to continue to ignore Darwin. Or, is HK just
        > > incapable of showing any love and compassion,
        > > or to have an ability to let go of his anger? Probably!
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        >
      • jivatmananda
        Hi Mish, In my opinion, the quickest, easiest and more efficient way to complain about their money management is to stop sending them money. As long as they
        Message 3 of 13 , May 1, 2008
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          Hi Mish,

          In my opinion, the quickest, easiest and more efficient way to
          complain about their money management is to stop sending them money.
          As long as they get enough money from the membership, they will laugh
          all their way to the bank.

          Jivat

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Jivat and All!
          >
          > The non-disclosure of funds and expenditures in eckankar should have
          > raised red flags, but I guess because money is considered material and
          > eckists are not to dwell on or covet the material that they have buried
          > their heads in the sand and trusted their mahanta!
          >
          > I was never a member but attended and participated for a while, off
          > and on, a christian church group in my former community. Please
          > note I said "former community" as I no longer live there. Some in the
          > group must have gotten my present address some how. They continue
          > to send me church mailings which include their periodic financial
          > statements. Obviously, those religious groups who have nothing to
          > hide do not conceal their finances from anyone. The fact that eckankar
          > keeps its chelas totally in the dark about its finances, investments
          and
          > purchased properties shows they are being deceptive and very dishonest
          > because they "need" to hide it. Something is "rotten in Denmark" indeed!
          >
          > The problem with eckists regarding the money is that they are not
          > complaining! They don't care about the money in eckankar as long as
          > they can scrape together their annual membership fee so that they will
          > still be eligible for their initiations. Eckists are so wanting those
          > initiations that they don't care if eckankar is fraudulent or not!
          >
          > So now I wonder how this strained U.S. economy will play out with the
          > eckists. I wonder how many will fall behind in paying their membership
          > dues? If they do, I would guess that they will be surprised that their
          > beloved eckankar will still be demanding their money by arranging
          > monthly payments. Eckists will be reminded that there is no free ride!
          >
          > But this brings us to a brighter note! How many potential new members
          > will pass because of that membership fee (donation)? It just might be
          > hard times for Klemp and company!
          >
          > Mish
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jivatmananda"
          > <jivatmananda@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Prometheus and All,
          > >
          > > You wrote that certain Eckankar financial records are being hidden and
          > > made unavailable to some Board members. I will play the devil's
          > > advocate here. All Eckists know or should know that financial data are
          > > being hidden from them.
          > >
          > > Therefore, they have nothing to complain about when Eckankar spends or
          > > invests their donations and membership dues at its sole discretion.
          > > Eckankar has every right to build an outdoor chapel in a State where
          > > there is only one "week of summer", as Harry so humorously said in
          > > 1986. Members who disagree with that kind of decisions just need not
          > > to donate their hard-earned money to Eckankar.
          > >
          > > Jivat
          > >
          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi Jivat and All,
          > > > It really is too bad that Klemp didn't find
          > > > it "necessary" to even acknowledge Darwin's
          > > > death let alone say anything "kind!" As far as
          > > > what is "true;" when all the facts and the
          > > > real truth is balanced out I doubt that what
          > > > Darwin did, as LEM/Mahanta, was no worse than
          > > > what Twitchell had done... and Klemp has probably
          > > > preformed more misdeeds than both PT & DG combined!
          > > > This is why the EK finances (salaries and properties,
          > > > etc.) are hidden from the general EK membership.
          > > > And, certain EK financial records are being hidden
          > > > and made unavailable to some Board members!
          > > > Klemp chastised and sued Darwin concerning finances
          > > > and then moved Eckankar to MN. where he was not
          > > > required to divulge the orgs spending practices
          > > > under state law. But, What does HK have to hide?
          > > > Can't the EK finances withstand the light of day?
          > > >
          > > > It's interesting why a letter concerning Darwin's
          > > > Translation wasn't sent out with other mailings.
          > > > This would have saved mailing costs ($), but Klemp
          > > > chose not to send anything. What is Harry waiting
          > > > for? It's inappropriate for Klemp to wait any longer
          > > > and to continue to ignore Darwin. Or, is HK just
          > > > incapable of showing any love and compassion,
          > > > or to have an ability to let go of his anger? Probably!
          > > >
          > > > Prometheus
          > >
          >
        • Elizabeth
          Hi all, If the org is running this business properly, they would be investing all those MILLIONS they are collecting yearly, and there would be no need for
          Message 4 of 13 , May 1, 2008
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            Hi all,
             
            If the org is running this business properly, they would be investing all those MILLIONS they are collecting yearly, and there would be no need for anyone to pay membership dues!  Residual money from books and stupid little bonus crap the members get to purchase; photos of their beloved mahanta levitating on the clouds.... Hu tapes, talk tapes, DVD's, jewelry etc....  Heck they could even help fund each and every local satsang society and center... If klump was investing his money properly!!!  I'm sure someone could get the financial records covertly.  ;-)  Or maybe MN non-disclosure for non profits needs to change!  Klempankar wouldn't be able to hide behind the laws then. What does it take to get such a law changed? I'd be interested in knowing.
             
            -------Original Message-------
             
            Date: 5/1/2008 10:01:14 AM
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Harry's Takeover In 6 Easy To Understand Steps
             
            Hi, Jivat and All!
             
            The non-disclosure of funds and expenditures in eckankar should have
            raised red flags, but I guess because money is considered material and
            eckists are not to dwell on or covet the material that they have buried
            their heads in the sand and trusted their mahanta!
             
            I was never a member but attended and participated for a while, off
            and on, a christian church group in my former community. Please
            note I said "former community" as I no longer live there. Some in the
            group must have gotten my present address some how. They continue
            to send me church mailings which include their periodic financial
            statements. Obviously, those religious groups who have nothing to
            Hide do not conceal their finances from anyone. The fact that eckankar
            keeps its chelas totally in the dark about its finances, investments and
            purchased properties shows they are being deceptive and very dishonest
            because they "need" to hide it. Something is "rotten in Denmark" indeed!
             
            The problem with eckists regarding the money is that they are not
            complaining! They don't care about the money in eckankar as long as
            they can scrape together their annual membership fee so that they will
            still be eligible for their initiations. Eckists are so wanting those
            initiations that they don't care if eckankar is fraudulent or not!
             
            So now I wonder how this strained U.S. economy will play out with the
            eckists. I wonder how many will fall behind in paying their membership
            dues? If they do, I would guess that they will be surprised that their
            beloved eckankar will still be demanding their money by arranging
            monthly payments. Eckists will be reminded that there is no free ride!
             
            But this brings us to a brighter note! How many potential new members
            will pass because of that membership fee (donation)? It just might be
            hard times for Klemp and company!
             
            Mish
             
             
             
             
          • prometheus_973
            Hello All, The financial thing, for ECKists, is a real Catch-22. It s true that many ECKists won t question finances as they blindly accept/surrender to
            Message 5 of 13 , May 1, 2008
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              Hello All,
              The financial thing, for ECKists, is a real Catch-22.
              It's true that many ECKists won't question finances
              as they blindly accept/surrender to whatever is told
              them. This is how that "Leap of Faith" works that Klemp
              has spoken about. This is, also, how it works for all
              religious followers, but somehow ECKists think or
              imagine that they are above it all... the lower worlds.
              They have deluded themselves because deep down
              they know that they aren't able to get answers for
              their questions and that there would be retribution
              for asking those questions in the first place. Really,
              can ECKists ask the ESC Staff to see the financial records
              of their church! They can ask, but to question where
              the money goes!!! That shows a lack of trust doesn't
              it! People in charge know how to turn it back around
              to stab and silence the questioner with guilt or fear
              tactics... every ECKist wants that next Initiation!

              The LEM is the physical leader of the physical church.
              His purpose is to run the physical org and to answer
              questions pertaining to the physical aspects of the
              teachings and to this lifetime. Therefore, HK should
              be honest and straight forward and be neutral (neither
              for or against) the reasons as to why financial questions
              are asked. However, such is Not the case!

              Also, the yearly membership donation is Not supposed
              to be a fixed amount, but a "suggested" amount. This
              means that ECKists can make any "Donation" amount
              for their memberships! If Not, then Eckankar can lose
              its TAX FREE status. Seminar "Donations" work the same!

              Prometheus


              Mish wrote:
              [snip]
              The problem with eckists regarding the money is that they are not
              complaining! They don't care about the money in eckankar as long as
              they can scrape together their annual membership fee so that they will
              still be eligible for their initiations. Eckists are so wanting those
              initiations that they don't care if eckankar is fraudulent or not!

              So now I wonder how this strained U.S. economy will play out with the
              eckists. I wonder how many will fall behind in paying their membership
              dues? If they do, I would guess that they will be surprised that their
              beloved eckankar will still be demanding their money by arranging
              monthly payments. Eckists will be reminded that there is no free ride!

              But this brings us to a brighter note! How many potential new members
              will pass because of that membership fee (donation)? It just might be
              hard times for Klemp and company!


              Elizabeth wrote:
              >
              > Hi all,
              >
              > If the org is running this business properly, they would be investing all
              > those MILLIONS they are collecting yearly, and there would be no need for
              > anyone to pay membership dues! Residual money from books and stupid little
              > bonus crap the members get to purchase; photos of their beloved mahanta
              > levitating on the clouds.... Hu tapes, talk tapes, DVD's, jewelry etc....
              > Heck they could even help fund each and every local satsang society and
              > center... If klump was investing his money properly!!! I'm sure someone
              > could get the financial records covertly. ;-) Or maybe MN non-disclosure
              > for non profits needs to change! Klempankar wouldn't be able to hide behind
              > the laws then. What does it take to get such a law changed? I'd be
              > interested in knowing.
            • Elizabeth
              Here s another thought; what does it take financially to keep the temple of eck running each month - heating, cooling, lighting etc when it is being used
              Message 6 of 13 , May 1, 2008
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                Here's another thought;   what does it take financially to keep the temple of eck running each month - heating, cooling, lighting etc when it is being used RARELY!?  How often is there a tour, and how much donation money does a tour generate each money, or how often is the book store open, or ....    The only time there is any real amount of activity there is during seminars, and the once a month worship service.  Other than that, zip, zero, zilch!   And let's not forget the donations that are generated by all local satsangs that send in extra money to help fund the temple etc.....   (yawn!) 
                 
                And why is it that the ESC building have chandeliers "made of gold"  hanging in their breeze way entrance to where the volunteer staff workers are located?  Minimum wage jobs at best,  slave wages, and they the employees pay extra for medical benefits!
              • jivatmananda
                Hi All, ... Does it means that Eckists who disagree with money management may decide to pay only $1 per year as a way to protest? I doubt many would do it as
                Message 7 of 13 , May 1, 2008
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                  Hi All,

                  <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  > Also, the yearly membership donation is Not supposed
                  > to be a fixed amount, but a "suggested" amount. This
                  > means that ECKists can make any "Donation" amount
                  > for their memberships! If Not, then Eckankar can lose
                  > its TAX FREE status. Seminar "Donations" work the same!

                  Does it means that Eckists who disagree with money management may
                  decide to pay only $1 per year as a way to protest? I doubt many
                  would do it as they may fear being blacklisted, but some may still
                  consider this option.

                  Jivat
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