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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Peddar Zaskq vs. Paul Twitchell

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  • etznab@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/27/08 2:56:00 PM Central Daylight Time, ... I thought it was a good question you asked. However, this is not one of the subjects I have
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 27 8:35 PM
      In a message dated 4/27/08 2:56:00 PM Central Daylight Time, prometheus_973@... writes:


      When did Paul Twitchell (PT) first mention that
      Peddar Zaskq (PZ) was his Spiritual Name versus
      his Past Life Name?

      I don't think that Twitchell ever mentioned that
      Peddar Zaskq was his spiritual name! I think this
      was added late (after Twitchell's death), by others,
      in order to sort out and give a logical explanation
      to the conflicting data. PT's Eckankar Dictionary
      has a 1973 Copyright and the Shariyat One, where
      ECK Master Peddar is mentioned, has a 1970 Copyright.


         I thought it was a good question you asked. However,
      this is not one of the subjects I have researched in any
      depth. Instead, something else came to mind after I read
      your thread.

         What was brought to my attention was the book: The
      Drums of ECK. It was the first Eckankar book that I ever
      read, but that was over two decades ago.

         Just tonight I skimmed through it looking to learn
      whether it gave any history about who was the Living
      Eck Master then. The last paragraph of the Forward by
      Paul Twitchell mentions Rebazar Tarzs "... who was then
      the MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master." That is a little
      curious though, IMO, since that term was not very com-
      mon in the earlier written works. At least, not illustrated
      in that way - even though it might have been inserted
      retroactively into the earlier written works. Like when
      "MAHANTA appeared in the very first letter to Gail -
      in 1962 - according to some later editions of it, at least.
      And when Rebazar Tarzs appeared (Letter to Gail 1962)
      on the same page. I can't say for sure though if any of
      those terms appeared in the "original" Letter to Gail
      in 1962. Most everybody's works whom I read that
      researched this term - "Mahanta" - and when it was
      first used did not go back as far as 1962. Instead, the
      dates ranged around 1965 to 1969.

         In The Drums of ECK book, there was another ECK
      Master mentioned: "Juquila, the ECK Master of the
      Ancient Order of Vairagi ...." [p. 218, 1978 4th Printing]
      This was someone who the woman Sarita was close to.
      On p. 73 the names Rebazar Tarzs and Juquila are both
      illustrated in a way that looks like Sarita knew both of
      them. However, in the book, Peddar Zaskq seems to be
      guided mostly by Rebazar Tarzs. At the end of the book
      Sarita and Blake are married by Juquila in a ceremony
      that "almost" reads like an initiation, IMO.

         I didn't see Juquila mentioned any place else, or in
      the Eckankar Dictionary. My suspicion though is that
      the term "Eck Master", and how it was used in the be-
      ginning of the writings, was comparable to the Spiritual
      Travelers, of which there were more than one at a time.

         I believe the term "ECK Master" appeared illustrated
      in June and July 1968, "living ECK Master" in November
      1968, MAHANTA in early 1969 and "Living" in Living ECK
      Master capitalized in February 1970. [I need to check and
      verify if these were the very first appearances for those terms.
      Something hard to do without access to the earliest editions
      of the writings.]

         This is probably going off topic from your original
      thread, so I apologize for not starting a new thread
      topic for this message.

         At any rate, I think it's fair to assume The Drums
      of ECK was "written" as early as 1969 (since the
      Forward was dated 1969). Probably earlier than that
      would be my guess. Also, I would suspect this book
      might have included one of the first mentions of the
      name Peddar Zaskq.

         One of these days when it's possible to have every
      Eckankar book - and every version - in a computer file
      at the same time and one can go about and search
      the places where specific words first appear, I imagine
      it will be a lot easier to answer questions like the one
      that you asked. But to go about it the old fashioned
      way by flipping around through every book is probably
      a little (a lot) tedious for most people.

      Etznab



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    • etznab@aol.com
      In a message dated 4/27/08 10:35:55 PM Central Daylight Time, etznab@aol.com ... The Shariyat, Book One, mentions Peddar Zaskq as an Eck Master. A year later
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 27 9:56 PM
        In a message dated 4/27/08 10:35:55 PM Central Daylight Time, etznab@... writes:


        At any rate, I think it's fair to assume The Drums
        of ECK was "written" as early as 1969 (since the
        Forward was dated 1969). Probably earlier than that
        would be my guess. Also, I would suspect this book
        might have included one of the first mentions of the
        name Peddar Zaskq.


           The Shariyat, Book One, mentions Peddar Zaskq as
        an Eck Master. A year later (1971) when the Spiritual
        Notebook came out, he was again mentioned as Eck
        Master [Eck should be large caps].

           It leads me to wonder if (according to the writings)
        Paul Twitchell became a Spiritual Traveler in that one
        lifetime. Apparently, Rebazar Tarzs was working with
        him then (in the 1800s), according to some of the Eck
        writings.

           The birth of Peddar Zaskq was said to have taken
        place around the time of a great earthquake. Except,
        according to Doug Marman:

        "One of the 13 earthquakes listed for 1909 occurred shortly
        after midnight of October 22. It was a 4.5 magnitude quake,
        centered on the Mississippi River, about 30 miles from Paul’s
        first home in Paducah, Kentucky."

        [Based on: Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. One]  

           A Great Earthquake is magnitude 8.0 or above. Major is
        7.0 to 7.9. A Strong Earthquake is 6.0 to 6.9. Moderate is
        5.0 to 5.9. So, 4.5 is not a "Great" earthquake. According
        to modern terminology, it's a "Light" earthquake:

        http://www.geo.mtu.edu/UPSeis/magnitude.html

           What I found curious though was that some people believe
        a Great Earthquake did occur in 1812. Allegedly, they did not
        have the same way to monitor and record the magnitude then,
        but I did chronicle a 7.8 and an 8.0 earthquake - according to
        usgs.gov - for 1812. Why this is curious to me is that the life
        of Peddar Zaskq mentioned in The Drums of ECK recounted
        the years 1846-1847. Subtract 1812 from 1846 and you get
        34. How old was Peddar Zaskq in The Drums of ECK? Was
        the "Great Earthquake" something that happened just before
        Peddar Zaskq was born?

           When the Spiritual Notebook mentioned Peddar Zaskq, it
        suggested that he was born a few minutes after a great earth-
        quake shook the mid-South. Maybe Paul just called it "great",
        but the 1909 earthquake was (apparently) "light". Technically
        speaking.

           A "Great" earthquake did occur in mid-South (New Madrid,
        Missouri) in 1812, as far as I can tell. However, I'm not sure
        whether history records the exact date when "Peddar Zaskq"
        was born.

           For some reason I think this Drums of ECK book is one to
        look at. Wish I had the very first edition though. I think it's in-
        teresting because Paul Twitchell wrote about that time period
        in such detail. Probably more than any other Eck book that he
        wrote, this one gives the most examples of "history" for which
        other written records - probably verifiable records - do exist. It
        talks about real historical events and The Drums of ECK was
        said to be a true story. For some reason it interests me, and
        because Rebazar Tarzs was mentioned there.

        Etznab



          




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      • prometheus_973
        Hi Etznab, Do you have a copy of Difficulties of Becoming the Living ECK Master because Twit makes it all as clear as mud!? There are excerts from 1971
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 27 10:39 PM
          Hi Etznab,
          Do you have a copy of "Difficulties of Becoming
          the Living ECK Master" because Twit makes it
          all as clear as mud!?

          There are excerts from 1971 Mystic World articles
          beginning on page 250 from April-May-June
          and pages 251-253 from July-August-September
          that discuses Peddar Zaskq.

          What's really interesting is these were written just
          months before Twitchell's death. It, also, seems like
          Gail might have written what PT dictated to her.

          "No one really knows for sure where he came from,
          when he was born, or if his true name is really Paul
          Twitchell. How long he has been on the Earth planet
          is not known. BUT it is a fact that his Master Rebazar
          Tarzs, an ancient Tibetan lama, who appears to be in
          his early forties [like Twit?], was a young man when
          Columbus discovered America. [Yet there is no mention,
          here, as to RT sailing with or helping Columbus!]

          Paul, who is known to the world as Peddar Zaskq, which
          is his real name, is an occidental. [I guess thIs this how
          he got PZ as his "spiritual (past life) name!"]

          The majority of avatars have usually been orientals...
          This first ECK Master was Ramaj, the founder of the
          Ancient Order of Vairagi [really?]... They met to discuss
          the birth of the coming avatar for the twentieth century
          [Klemp wasn't mentioned too?], Peddar Zaskq. Born
          in the Caucasian mountains during the seventeenth
          century, he lived and was trained to the heights of
          spiritual perfection. [So, 20th century PT is really
          17 century PZ, or 20th century PZ is 17th century PZ!]

          ... This time the Ancient Prediction that a New World
          Avatar would be born on a great body of water, near
          the shores where horses grazed was to become true.
          [Is this the second coming of the Christ... what's with
          the horses... oh, the Kentucky Derby!]

          This time Peddar Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
          river packet enroute to New Orleans. [This time...
          isn't Soul to let go of past lives and live in the Now?]

          ... There appeared a blue carnation in a vase on a
          night table by the mother's bed. The work of the
          hierarchy was completed except for the training
          of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately arranged for
          him to be given a home in which to be raised.
          [I had read somewhere before that he was found
          near the river bank like Moses by his "step-sister"
          Kay-Dee]

          His foster parents raised him in a small southern
          river town. He adopted their name and became
          known as Paul Twitchell in the twentieth century."
          [end of quote]

          Wow! It sounds like old Twit was quite the liar and
          story teller! I wonder if Twit ever had any fish stories
          too?

          Anyway, if ECKists actually believe this crap then
          where does this place Klemp? If Twit or Zas was
          the 20th century "Avatar" (Saviour) that the ECK
          Hierarchy was anticipating, due to prophecy,
          where does that leave Klemp? Perhaps, HK's still
          in that Sound Proof Dark Room from 1980 and
          of his own making!

          Prometheus
          p.s. It seems that I read of Peddar Zaskq living
          in the late 1800s (19 century) and that he was
          involved in the war with Mexico somehow.
          Twit's imagination always took over and filled
          in the blanks in order to give impressionable
          people what they wanted and needed to hear.





          etznab@... wrote:
          >
          prometheus_writes:
          >
          >
          When did Paul Twitchell (PT) first mention that
          Peddar Zaskq (PZ) was his Spiritual Name versus
          his Past Life Name?
          > >
          I don't think that Twitchell ever mentioned that
          Peddar Zaskq was his spiritual name! I think this
          was added late (after Twitchell's death), by others,
          in order to sort out and give a logical explanation
          to the conflicting data. PT's Eckankar Dictionary
          has a 1973 Copyright and the Shariyat One, where
          ECK Master Peddar is mentioned, has a 1970 Copyright.
          > >
          >
          I thought it was a good question you asked. However,
          this is not one of the subjects I have researched in any
          depth. Instead, something else came to mind after I read
          your thread.
          >
        • Elizabeth
          Etznab wrote: Just tonight I skimmed through it looking to learn whether it gave any history about who was the Living Eck Master then. The last paragraph of
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 28 5:34 AM
             
            Etznab wrote:
               Just tonight I skimmed through it looking to learn
            whether it gave any history about who was the Living
            Eck Master then. The last paragraph of the Forward by
            Paul Twitchell mentions Rebazar Tarzs "... who was then
            the MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master." That is a little
            curious though, IMO, 
             
             
             
            ...  Not so curious, recall eckankar claims RT is over 500 yrs old!
             
             

               In The Drums of ECK book, there was another ECK
            Master mentioned: "Juquila, the ECK Master of the
            Ancient Order of Vairagi ...." [p. 218, 1978 4th Printing]
            This was someone who the woman Sarita was close to.
            On p. 73 the names Rebazar Tarzs and Juquila are both
            illustrated in a way that looks like Sarita knew both of
            them. However, in the book, Peddar Zaskq seems to be
            guided mostly by Rebazar Tarzs. At the end of the book
            Sarita and Blake are married by Juquila in a ceremony
            that "almost" reads like an initiation, IMO.
             
             
             
            ...  Just thought I would point out, this wedding in TDOE is what was first used during eck weddings back in the day before eck weddings were recognized and legal  (one I witnessed in 1977 at a broken bow camp / seminar) 
             

               I didn't see Juquila mentioned any place else, or in
            the Eckankar Dictionary. My suspicion though is that
            the term "Eck Master", and how it was used in the be-
            ginning of the writings, was comparable to the Spiritual
            Travelers, of which there were more than one at a time.
             
            ... PT was using "spiritual traveler / seek / stranger by the river types....  way before he elevated himself to the grand poo baa  Mahanta.  I get the feeling PT was using / checking out lots of history books at the library where Gail was employed.  I also see many different "spins" to his PZ / PT stories, some taken from Christian paths, and even Buddhist  (think Dalai Lama).
             
             
            "Dalai Lama
            In Tibetan Buddhism, the successive Dalai Lamas form a lineage of allegedly reborn (tulku) magistrates which traces back to 1391. They are of the Gelug sect of Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhists believe the Dalai Lama to be one of innumerable incarnations of Avalokiteśvara ("Chenrezig" [spyan ras gzigs] in Tibetan), the bodhisattva of compassion.
             
            He is often styled "His Holiness" (HH) before his title.
             
            The bodhisattva who is the reincarnation of Avalokiteshvara , a.k.a. Chenrezig , the bodhisattva of Compassion. He is a single being who has been reincarnated 14 times as the Dalai Lama. See also lama . The Dalai Lama has always been a combination the chief spiritual leader and the chief political leader of Tibet. 
             
            ... RT was / is a great Tibetan Master....  Wonder why HH never mentions him?   

              
          • etznab@aol.com
            In a message dated 4/28/08 12:39:36 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Yeah, I got that. The 17th century would have been the 1600s. The life of Peddar Zaskq in The
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 28 11:49 AM
              In a message dated 4/28/08 12:39:36 AM Central Daylight Time, prometheus_973@... writes:


              Do you have a copy of "Difficulties of Becoming
              the Living ECK Master" because Twit makes it
              all as clear as mud!?

              There are excerts from 1971 Mystic World articles
              beginning on page 250 from April-May-June
              and pages 251-253 from July-August-September
              that discuses Peddar Zaskq.


                 Yeah, I got that.

                 The 17th century would have been the 1600s. The
              life of Peddar Zaskq in The Drums of ECK was in the
              19th century.

                 Like I said before, I think it's a good question about
              the history of "Peddar Zaskq". The written history is
              suspect, IMO, and warrants further research to sort
              out the true from the false. At least, that is the way it
              looks to me right now.

              Etznab



              **************
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            • etznab@aol.com
              In a message dated 4/28/08 7:35:21 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Thanks for sharing that history I was (until now) not aware of. Etznab ************** Need a
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 28 11:54 AM
                In a message dated 4/28/08 7:35:21 AM Central Daylight Time, ewickings@... writes:


                ...  Just thought I would point out, this wedding in TDOE is what was first used during eck weddings back in the day before eck weddings were recognized and legal  (one I witnessed in 1977 at a broken bow camp / seminar)


                   Thanks for sharing that history I was (until now) not aware of.

                Etznab




                **************
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              • prometheus_973
                Hi All, It is interesting that PT claims Rebazar Tarzs (RT) Was or Is Still a Tibetan Lama who is also 500 years old! Yet, the Dali Lama has never mentioned
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 28 3:37 PM
                  Hi All,
                  It is interesting that PT claims Rebazar Tarzs
                  (RT) Was or Is Still a Tibetan Lama who is also
                  500 years old! Yet, the Dali Lama has never
                  mentioned Rebazar Tarzs' name! Why? Because
                  it's more fiction by Twitchell!

                  "But it is a FACT that his (PT's) Master Rebazar Tarzs,
                  an ancient Tibetan lama, who appears in his early
                  forties, was a young man when Columbus discovered
                  America." [Difficulties of Becoming the Living ECK Master,
                  pg. 250]

                  It's, also, interesting to note that Rebazar "was a young
                  man when Columbus discovered America." So, was RT
                  an ECK Master as a young man?

                  Did RT help Columbus on his (EK) mission to discover
                  "protein" with Fubbi's influence, although, RT was just a
                  "young man" at the time?

                  And yes, it does look like Twit was slyly associating
                  himself (Peddar) to be a past life EK Master, and from
                  another incarnation. PT did this to further establish his
                  lineage as a present day EK Master in his, then, current
                  incarnation. This is similar to Buddhist beliefs! After all,
                  PT's Master (Tibetan lama Rebazar) is Paul's fictitious link
                  to verify these "facts."

                  Prometheus

                  "Elizabeth" wrote:
                  >
                  Etznab wrote:

                  > "Dalai Lama
                  > In Tibetan Buddhism, the successive Dalai Lamas form a lineage of allegedly
                  > reborn (tulku) magistrates which traces back to 1391. They are of the Gelug
                  > sect of Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhists believe the Dalai Lama to be one of
                  > innumerable incarnations of Avalokiteœvara ("Chenrezig" [spyan ras gzigs] in
                  > Tibetan), the bodhisattva of compassion.
                  >
                  > He is often styled "His Holiness" (HH) before his title.
                  >
                  > The bodhisattva who is the reincarnation of Avalokiteshvara , a.k.a.
                  > Chenrezig , the bodhisattva of Compassion. He is a single being who has been
                  > reincarnated 14 times as the Dalai Lama. See also lama . The Dalai Lama has
                  > always been a combination the chief spiritual leader and the chief political
                  > leader of Tibet.
                  >
                  > ... RT was / is a great Tibetan Master.... Wonder why HH never mentions
                  > him?
                  >
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