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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Peddar Zaskq vs. Paul Twitchell

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Prometheus, Your post about Paul Twitchell s past life as Peddar Zaskq prompted me to contemplate the question: According to outer Eckankar history, who was
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 27, 2008
      Prometheus,

         Your post about Paul Twitchell's past life as Peddar Zaskq
      prompted me to contemplate the question:

      "According to outer Eckankar history, who was the Living Eck
      Master at that time?"

         "That time" would have been around the middle 19th century.

         In the Forward to Paul Twitchell's, The Drums of ECK, there
      was mention of James K. Polk as the 11th U.S. President. And
      I believe he began his term around 1845.

         Also in the forward to T.D.O.E. , in the last paragraph, it gave
      Rebazar Tarzs as "the MAHANTA, and Living ECK Master" then.
      It appears that Paul Twitchell wrote that Forward in 1969. I have
      the Fourth Printing, 1978 version of T.D.O.E.

         Other Eck Masters who might have existed around that time
      in history (according to Eckankar literature) were:

      Hipolito Fayolle - "ECK Master during the eighteenth century."  

      [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell, 10th printing  
      1983, p. 194]

      Janos Moneta - "ECK Master during the early eighteenth century."

      [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell, 10th printing
      1983, pp. 194-195]

      Yu Rangta - "During the middle and later part of the nineteenth
      century Yu Rangta, a Chinese Master, lived in the Gobi Desert  
      and was the living ECK Master of his times."

      [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell, 10th printing
      1983, p. 195]

      [Sudar Singh apparently came after Yu Rangta. "The next Master
      was Sudar Singh of Allahabad who spread ECK to Europe and other
      places on the globe. He lived into his nineties before passing away." 
      See: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell, 10th printing 1983,
      p. 195]

         I'm not sure of the exact time period for Paul Twitchell's alleged life
      as Peddar Zaskq. However, if Rebazar Tarzs was the L.E.M. then, I
      would have to assume it was prior to the middle 19th century. Before
      1850 that is (because it appears that Yu Rangta was the Master from
      the mid to latter 19th century).

         It's been a while since I've read The Drums of ECK, and so I'm not
      too familiar with the timeline for that book. From what I can tell - from
      looking at the recorded (written) history - Rebazar Tarzs - as L.E.M.
      in the early to mid 19th century - would have to find a place between
      Janos Moneta and Yu Rangta somewhere. Unless there were more
      than one Living Eck Master at a time.

      Etznab



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    • etznab@aol.com
      Oops! Hipolito Fayolle & Janos Moneta in the 18th century - that would have been the 1700s! Who was the Living Eck Master before Yu Rangta? According to the
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 27, 2008

           Oops! Hipolito Fayolle & Janos Moneta in the 18th
        century - that would have been the 1700s!

           Who was the Living Eck Master before Yu Rangta?
        According to the written history, it looks like there is
        room for Rebazar Tarzs.

        Etznab

          














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      • etznab@aol.com
        In a message dated 4/27/08 2:56:00 PM Central Daylight Time, ... I thought it was a good question you asked. However, this is not one of the subjects I have
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 27, 2008
          In a message dated 4/27/08 2:56:00 PM Central Daylight Time, prometheus_973@... writes:


          When did Paul Twitchell (PT) first mention that
          Peddar Zaskq (PZ) was his Spiritual Name versus
          his Past Life Name?

          I don't think that Twitchell ever mentioned that
          Peddar Zaskq was his spiritual name! I think this
          was added late (after Twitchell's death), by others,
          in order to sort out and give a logical explanation
          to the conflicting data. PT's Eckankar Dictionary
          has a 1973 Copyright and the Shariyat One, where
          ECK Master Peddar is mentioned, has a 1970 Copyright.


             I thought it was a good question you asked. However,
          this is not one of the subjects I have researched in any
          depth. Instead, something else came to mind after I read
          your thread.

             What was brought to my attention was the book: The
          Drums of ECK. It was the first Eckankar book that I ever
          read, but that was over two decades ago.

             Just tonight I skimmed through it looking to learn
          whether it gave any history about who was the Living
          Eck Master then. The last paragraph of the Forward by
          Paul Twitchell mentions Rebazar Tarzs "... who was then
          the MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master." That is a little
          curious though, IMO, since that term was not very com-
          mon in the earlier written works. At least, not illustrated
          in that way - even though it might have been inserted
          retroactively into the earlier written works. Like when
          "MAHANTA appeared in the very first letter to Gail -
          in 1962 - according to some later editions of it, at least.
          And when Rebazar Tarzs appeared (Letter to Gail 1962)
          on the same page. I can't say for sure though if any of
          those terms appeared in the "original" Letter to Gail
          in 1962. Most everybody's works whom I read that
          researched this term - "Mahanta" - and when it was
          first used did not go back as far as 1962. Instead, the
          dates ranged around 1965 to 1969.

             In The Drums of ECK book, there was another ECK
          Master mentioned: "Juquila, the ECK Master of the
          Ancient Order of Vairagi ...." [p. 218, 1978 4th Printing]
          This was someone who the woman Sarita was close to.
          On p. 73 the names Rebazar Tarzs and Juquila are both
          illustrated in a way that looks like Sarita knew both of
          them. However, in the book, Peddar Zaskq seems to be
          guided mostly by Rebazar Tarzs. At the end of the book
          Sarita and Blake are married by Juquila in a ceremony
          that "almost" reads like an initiation, IMO.

             I didn't see Juquila mentioned any place else, or in
          the Eckankar Dictionary. My suspicion though is that
          the term "Eck Master", and how it was used in the be-
          ginning of the writings, was comparable to the Spiritual
          Travelers, of which there were more than one at a time.

             I believe the term "ECK Master" appeared illustrated
          in June and July 1968, "living ECK Master" in November
          1968, MAHANTA in early 1969 and "Living" in Living ECK
          Master capitalized in February 1970. [I need to check and
          verify if these were the very first appearances for those terms.
          Something hard to do without access to the earliest editions
          of the writings.]

             This is probably going off topic from your original
          thread, so I apologize for not starting a new thread
          topic for this message.

             At any rate, I think it's fair to assume The Drums
          of ECK was "written" as early as 1969 (since the
          Forward was dated 1969). Probably earlier than that
          would be my guess. Also, I would suspect this book
          might have included one of the first mentions of the
          name Peddar Zaskq.

             One of these days when it's possible to have every
          Eckankar book - and every version - in a computer file
          at the same time and one can go about and search
          the places where specific words first appear, I imagine
          it will be a lot easier to answer questions like the one
          that you asked. But to go about it the old fashioned
          way by flipping around through every book is probably
          a little (a lot) tedious for most people.

          Etznab



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        • etznab@aol.com
          In a message dated 4/27/08 10:35:55 PM Central Daylight Time, etznab@aol.com ... The Shariyat, Book One, mentions Peddar Zaskq as an Eck Master. A year later
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 27, 2008
            In a message dated 4/27/08 10:35:55 PM Central Daylight Time, etznab@... writes:


            At any rate, I think it's fair to assume The Drums
            of ECK was "written" as early as 1969 (since the
            Forward was dated 1969). Probably earlier than that
            would be my guess. Also, I would suspect this book
            might have included one of the first mentions of the
            name Peddar Zaskq.


               The Shariyat, Book One, mentions Peddar Zaskq as
            an Eck Master. A year later (1971) when the Spiritual
            Notebook came out, he was again mentioned as Eck
            Master [Eck should be large caps].

               It leads me to wonder if (according to the writings)
            Paul Twitchell became a Spiritual Traveler in that one
            lifetime. Apparently, Rebazar Tarzs was working with
            him then (in the 1800s), according to some of the Eck
            writings.

               The birth of Peddar Zaskq was said to have taken
            place around the time of a great earthquake. Except,
            according to Doug Marman:

            "One of the 13 earthquakes listed for 1909 occurred shortly
            after midnight of October 22. It was a 4.5 magnitude quake,
            centered on the Mississippi River, about 30 miles from Paul’s
            first home in Paducah, Kentucky."

            [Based on: Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. One]  

               A Great Earthquake is magnitude 8.0 or above. Major is
            7.0 to 7.9. A Strong Earthquake is 6.0 to 6.9. Moderate is
            5.0 to 5.9. So, 4.5 is not a "Great" earthquake. According
            to modern terminology, it's a "Light" earthquake:

            http://www.geo.mtu.edu/UPSeis/magnitude.html

               What I found curious though was that some people believe
            a Great Earthquake did occur in 1812. Allegedly, they did not
            have the same way to monitor and record the magnitude then,
            but I did chronicle a 7.8 and an 8.0 earthquake - according to
            usgs.gov - for 1812. Why this is curious to me is that the life
            of Peddar Zaskq mentioned in The Drums of ECK recounted
            the years 1846-1847. Subtract 1812 from 1846 and you get
            34. How old was Peddar Zaskq in The Drums of ECK? Was
            the "Great Earthquake" something that happened just before
            Peddar Zaskq was born?

               When the Spiritual Notebook mentioned Peddar Zaskq, it
            suggested that he was born a few minutes after a great earth-
            quake shook the mid-South. Maybe Paul just called it "great",
            but the 1909 earthquake was (apparently) "light". Technically
            speaking.

               A "Great" earthquake did occur in mid-South (New Madrid,
            Missouri) in 1812, as far as I can tell. However, I'm not sure
            whether history records the exact date when "Peddar Zaskq"
            was born.

               For some reason I think this Drums of ECK book is one to
            look at. Wish I had the very first edition though. I think it's in-
            teresting because Paul Twitchell wrote about that time period
            in such detail. Probably more than any other Eck book that he
            wrote, this one gives the most examples of "history" for which
            other written records - probably verifiable records - do exist. It
            talks about real historical events and The Drums of ECK was
            said to be a true story. For some reason it interests me, and
            because Rebazar Tarzs was mentioned there.

            Etznab



              




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          • prometheus_973
            Hi Etznab, Do you have a copy of Difficulties of Becoming the Living ECK Master because Twit makes it all as clear as mud!? There are excerts from 1971
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 27, 2008
              Hi Etznab,
              Do you have a copy of "Difficulties of Becoming
              the Living ECK Master" because Twit makes it
              all as clear as mud!?

              There are excerts from 1971 Mystic World articles
              beginning on page 250 from April-May-June
              and pages 251-253 from July-August-September
              that discuses Peddar Zaskq.

              What's really interesting is these were written just
              months before Twitchell's death. It, also, seems like
              Gail might have written what PT dictated to her.

              "No one really knows for sure where he came from,
              when he was born, or if his true name is really Paul
              Twitchell. How long he has been on the Earth planet
              is not known. BUT it is a fact that his Master Rebazar
              Tarzs, an ancient Tibetan lama, who appears to be in
              his early forties [like Twit?], was a young man when
              Columbus discovered America. [Yet there is no mention,
              here, as to RT sailing with or helping Columbus!]

              Paul, who is known to the world as Peddar Zaskq, which
              is his real name, is an occidental. [I guess thIs this how
              he got PZ as his "spiritual (past life) name!"]

              The majority of avatars have usually been orientals...
              This first ECK Master was Ramaj, the founder of the
              Ancient Order of Vairagi [really?]... They met to discuss
              the birth of the coming avatar for the twentieth century
              [Klemp wasn't mentioned too?], Peddar Zaskq. Born
              in the Caucasian mountains during the seventeenth
              century, he lived and was trained to the heights of
              spiritual perfection. [So, 20th century PT is really
              17 century PZ, or 20th century PZ is 17th century PZ!]

              ... This time the Ancient Prediction that a New World
              Avatar would be born on a great body of water, near
              the shores where horses grazed was to become true.
              [Is this the second coming of the Christ... what's with
              the horses... oh, the Kentucky Derby!]

              This time Peddar Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
              river packet enroute to New Orleans. [This time...
              isn't Soul to let go of past lives and live in the Now?]

              ... There appeared a blue carnation in a vase on a
              night table by the mother's bed. The work of the
              hierarchy was completed except for the training
              of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately arranged for
              him to be given a home in which to be raised.
              [I had read somewhere before that he was found
              near the river bank like Moses by his "step-sister"
              Kay-Dee]

              His foster parents raised him in a small southern
              river town. He adopted their name and became
              known as Paul Twitchell in the twentieth century."
              [end of quote]

              Wow! It sounds like old Twit was quite the liar and
              story teller! I wonder if Twit ever had any fish stories
              too?

              Anyway, if ECKists actually believe this crap then
              where does this place Klemp? If Twit or Zas was
              the 20th century "Avatar" (Saviour) that the ECK
              Hierarchy was anticipating, due to prophecy,
              where does that leave Klemp? Perhaps, HK's still
              in that Sound Proof Dark Room from 1980 and
              of his own making!

              Prometheus
              p.s. It seems that I read of Peddar Zaskq living
              in the late 1800s (19 century) and that he was
              involved in the war with Mexico somehow.
              Twit's imagination always took over and filled
              in the blanks in order to give impressionable
              people what they wanted and needed to hear.





              etznab@... wrote:
              >
              prometheus_writes:
              >
              >
              When did Paul Twitchell (PT) first mention that
              Peddar Zaskq (PZ) was his Spiritual Name versus
              his Past Life Name?
              > >
              I don't think that Twitchell ever mentioned that
              Peddar Zaskq was his spiritual name! I think this
              was added late (after Twitchell's death), by others,
              in order to sort out and give a logical explanation
              to the conflicting data. PT's Eckankar Dictionary
              has a 1973 Copyright and the Shariyat One, where
              ECK Master Peddar is mentioned, has a 1970 Copyright.
              > >
              >
              I thought it was a good question you asked. However,
              this is not one of the subjects I have researched in any
              depth. Instead, something else came to mind after I read
              your thread.
              >
            • Elizabeth
              Etznab wrote: Just tonight I skimmed through it looking to learn whether it gave any history about who was the Living Eck Master then. The last paragraph of
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 28, 2008
                 
                Etznab wrote:
                   Just tonight I skimmed through it looking to learn
                whether it gave any history about who was the Living
                Eck Master then. The last paragraph of the Forward by
                Paul Twitchell mentions Rebazar Tarzs "... who was then
                the MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master." That is a little
                curious though, IMO, 
                 
                 
                 
                ...  Not so curious, recall eckankar claims RT is over 500 yrs old!
                 
                 

                   In The Drums of ECK book, there was another ECK
                Master mentioned: "Juquila, the ECK Master of the
                Ancient Order of Vairagi ...." [p. 218, 1978 4th Printing]
                This was someone who the woman Sarita was close to.
                On p. 73 the names Rebazar Tarzs and Juquila are both
                illustrated in a way that looks like Sarita knew both of
                them. However, in the book, Peddar Zaskq seems to be
                guided mostly by Rebazar Tarzs. At the end of the book
                Sarita and Blake are married by Juquila in a ceremony
                that "almost" reads like an initiation, IMO.
                 
                 
                 
                ...  Just thought I would point out, this wedding in TDOE is what was first used during eck weddings back in the day before eck weddings were recognized and legal  (one I witnessed in 1977 at a broken bow camp / seminar) 
                 

                   I didn't see Juquila mentioned any place else, or in
                the Eckankar Dictionary. My suspicion though is that
                the term "Eck Master", and how it was used in the be-
                ginning of the writings, was comparable to the Spiritual
                Travelers, of which there were more than one at a time.
                 
                ... PT was using "spiritual traveler / seek / stranger by the river types....  way before he elevated himself to the grand poo baa  Mahanta.  I get the feeling PT was using / checking out lots of history books at the library where Gail was employed.  I also see many different "spins" to his PZ / PT stories, some taken from Christian paths, and even Buddhist  (think Dalai Lama).
                 
                 
                "Dalai Lama
                In Tibetan Buddhism, the successive Dalai Lamas form a lineage of allegedly reborn (tulku) magistrates which traces back to 1391. They are of the Gelug sect of Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhists believe the Dalai Lama to be one of innumerable incarnations of Avalokiteśvara ("Chenrezig" [spyan ras gzigs] in Tibetan), the bodhisattva of compassion.
                 
                He is often styled "His Holiness" (HH) before his title.
                 
                The bodhisattva who is the reincarnation of Avalokiteshvara , a.k.a. Chenrezig , the bodhisattva of Compassion. He is a single being who has been reincarnated 14 times as the Dalai Lama. See also lama . The Dalai Lama has always been a combination the chief spiritual leader and the chief political leader of Tibet. 
                 
                ... RT was / is a great Tibetan Master....  Wonder why HH never mentions him?   

                  
              • etznab@aol.com
                In a message dated 4/28/08 12:39:36 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Yeah, I got that. The 17th century would have been the 1600s. The life of Peddar Zaskq in The
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 28, 2008
                  In a message dated 4/28/08 12:39:36 AM Central Daylight Time, prometheus_973@... writes:


                  Do you have a copy of "Difficulties of Becoming
                  the Living ECK Master" because Twit makes it
                  all as clear as mud!?

                  There are excerts from 1971 Mystic World articles
                  beginning on page 250 from April-May-June
                  and pages 251-253 from July-August-September
                  that discuses Peddar Zaskq.


                     Yeah, I got that.

                     The 17th century would have been the 1600s. The
                  life of Peddar Zaskq in The Drums of ECK was in the
                  19th century.

                     Like I said before, I think it's a good question about
                  the history of "Peddar Zaskq". The written history is
                  suspect, IMO, and warrants further research to sort
                  out the true from the false. At least, that is the way it
                  looks to me right now.

                  Etznab



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                • etznab@aol.com
                  In a message dated 4/28/08 7:35:21 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Thanks for sharing that history I was (until now) not aware of. Etznab ************** Need a
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 28, 2008
                    In a message dated 4/28/08 7:35:21 AM Central Daylight Time, ewickings@... writes:


                    ...  Just thought I would point out, this wedding in TDOE is what was first used during eck weddings back in the day before eck weddings were recognized and legal  (one I witnessed in 1977 at a broken bow camp / seminar)


                       Thanks for sharing that history I was (until now) not aware of.

                    Etznab




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                  • prometheus_973
                    Hi All, It is interesting that PT claims Rebazar Tarzs (RT) Was or Is Still a Tibetan Lama who is also 500 years old! Yet, the Dali Lama has never mentioned
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 28, 2008
                      Hi All,
                      It is interesting that PT claims Rebazar Tarzs
                      (RT) Was or Is Still a Tibetan Lama who is also
                      500 years old! Yet, the Dali Lama has never
                      mentioned Rebazar Tarzs' name! Why? Because
                      it's more fiction by Twitchell!

                      "But it is a FACT that his (PT's) Master Rebazar Tarzs,
                      an ancient Tibetan lama, who appears in his early
                      forties, was a young man when Columbus discovered
                      America." [Difficulties of Becoming the Living ECK Master,
                      pg. 250]

                      It's, also, interesting to note that Rebazar "was a young
                      man when Columbus discovered America." So, was RT
                      an ECK Master as a young man?

                      Did RT help Columbus on his (EK) mission to discover
                      "protein" with Fubbi's influence, although, RT was just a
                      "young man" at the time?

                      And yes, it does look like Twit was slyly associating
                      himself (Peddar) to be a past life EK Master, and from
                      another incarnation. PT did this to further establish his
                      lineage as a present day EK Master in his, then, current
                      incarnation. This is similar to Buddhist beliefs! After all,
                      PT's Master (Tibetan lama Rebazar) is Paul's fictitious link
                      to verify these "facts."

                      Prometheus

                      "Elizabeth" wrote:
                      >
                      Etznab wrote:

                      > "Dalai Lama
                      > In Tibetan Buddhism, the successive Dalai Lamas form a lineage of allegedly
                      > reborn (tulku) magistrates which traces back to 1391. They are of the Gelug
                      > sect of Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhists believe the Dalai Lama to be one of
                      > innumerable incarnations of Avalokiteœvara ("Chenrezig" [spyan ras gzigs] in
                      > Tibetan), the bodhisattva of compassion.
                      >
                      > He is often styled "His Holiness" (HH) before his title.
                      >
                      > The bodhisattva who is the reincarnation of Avalokiteshvara , a.k.a.
                      > Chenrezig , the bodhisattva of Compassion. He is a single being who has been
                      > reincarnated 14 times as the Dalai Lama. See also lama . The Dalai Lama has
                      > always been a combination the chief spiritual leader and the chief political
                      > leader of Tibet.
                      >
                      > ... RT was / is a great Tibetan Master.... Wonder why HH never mentions
                      > him?
                      >
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