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Peddar Zaskq vs. Paul Twitchell

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, Peddar Zaskq is, supposedly, Twitchell s name in his previous incarnation... right! Also, Peddar Zaskq was, supposedly, PT s spiritual name. [1973
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 27, 2008
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      Hello All,
      Peddar Zaskq is, supposedly, Twitchell's
      name in his previous incarnation... right!

      Also, Peddar Zaskq was, supposedly, PT's
      spiritual name. [1973 Eckankar Dictionary]

      All of this info is part of Eckankar history
      and dogma.

      However, was Peddar Zaskq (the future
      Paul Twitchell), also, an ECK Master?

      Or, did Twitchell suffer from multiple personality
      disorder, as well as, from other personality
      disorders like narcissism, etc.?

      When did Paul Twitchell (PT) first mention that
      Peddar Zaskq (PZ) was his Spiritual Name versus
      his Past Life Name?

      I don't think that Twitchell ever mentioned that
      Peddar Zaskq was his spiritual name! I think this
      was added late (after Twitchell's death), by others,
      in order to sort out and give a logical explanation
      to the conflicting data. PT's Eckankar Dictionary
      has a 1973 Copyright and the Shariyat One, where
      ECK Master Peddar is mentioned, has a 1970 Copyright.

      Here's what Twitchell states in his Shariyat One
      in Chapter One, also, note what is said about Soul,
      the ECK (Spirit), and the Liberation of Soul:

      "Each must come to that Position or Level of Spiritual
      Understanding in which he Knows that, 'I HAVE COME
      TO BE, AND SHALL CEASE TO BE,' in the words of The
      ECK Master Peddar Zaskq."

      ME: So, basically, Twitchell is saying that he was an ECK
      Master in his last incarnation as Peddar Zaskq, or else
      he would have attributed the quote to himself (PT, LEM)
      or to the Inner Master in this lifetime!

      Who was Klemp in his last incarnation? Was HK an
      ECK Master too, or is being a previous ECK Master
      the sign of a True Mahanta... like Twitchell?

      Klemp has never covered this point in over 25 years!
      We know that his past life name wasn't WAH-Z because
      Darwin came up with the "WAH" for little Harry!
      Here's more...

      PT: "One must set aside all ideas, opinions, theories,
      and beliefs [including HK's and Eckankar's] and look
      earnestly and intently at the One Great Principle of
      ECK, the 'I AM.' Whosoever does this will find himself
      awakened by the knowledge of the divine Self, that
      there is no other center of the ECK [Holy Spirit] than
      himself."

      ME: Thus, one doesn't need a Mahanta!

      PT: "Thus he is Liberated while still in the Human Form,
      before the death of the body, and before the dissolution
      of all worlds at the end of the Kalpa. He has reached the
      state of Jivan Mukti, Liberation of Soul via the Sound
      Current... He has become the Co-worker with the Sugmad."

      ME: Well, this seems to mean that under Twitchell ECKists
      were Liberated while still in the "Human Form" and that
      they became "Co-Workers with the SUGMAD!"

      Under Klemp ECKists can only reach "Spiritual-Realization"
      versus "God-Realization" while still in the "human form."

      Prometheus
      p.s. Of course we now Know that Twitchell was neither a
      Master or Honest about much of anything... and neither
      is Klemp. 'To thy own self be true' is still the best advice,
      but seems to escape those with the "herd" mentality.
    • etznab@aol.com
      Prometheus, Your post about Paul Twitchell s past life as Peddar Zaskq prompted me to contemplate the question: According to outer Eckankar history, who was
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 27, 2008
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        Prometheus,

           Your post about Paul Twitchell's past life as Peddar Zaskq
        prompted me to contemplate the question:

        "According to outer Eckankar history, who was the Living Eck
        Master at that time?"

           "That time" would have been around the middle 19th century.

           In the Forward to Paul Twitchell's, The Drums of ECK, there
        was mention of James K. Polk as the 11th U.S. President. And
        I believe he began his term around 1845.

           Also in the forward to T.D.O.E. , in the last paragraph, it gave
        Rebazar Tarzs as "the MAHANTA, and Living ECK Master" then.
        It appears that Paul Twitchell wrote that Forward in 1969. I have
        the Fourth Printing, 1978 version of T.D.O.E.

           Other Eck Masters who might have existed around that time
        in history (according to Eckankar literature) were:

        Hipolito Fayolle - "ECK Master during the eighteenth century."  

        [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell, 10th printing  
        1983, p. 194]

        Janos Moneta - "ECK Master during the early eighteenth century."

        [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell, 10th printing
        1983, pp. 194-195]

        Yu Rangta - "During the middle and later part of the nineteenth
        century Yu Rangta, a Chinese Master, lived in the Gobi Desert  
        and was the living ECK Master of his times."

        [Based on: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell, 10th printing
        1983, p. 195]

        [Sudar Singh apparently came after Yu Rangta. "The next Master
        was Sudar Singh of Allahabad who spread ECK to Europe and other
        places on the globe. He lived into his nineties before passing away." 
        See: The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Twitchell, 10th printing 1983,
        p. 195]

           I'm not sure of the exact time period for Paul Twitchell's alleged life
        as Peddar Zaskq. However, if Rebazar Tarzs was the L.E.M. then, I
        would have to assume it was prior to the middle 19th century. Before
        1850 that is (because it appears that Yu Rangta was the Master from
        the mid to latter 19th century).

           It's been a while since I've read The Drums of ECK, and so I'm not
        too familiar with the timeline for that book. From what I can tell - from
        looking at the recorded (written) history - Rebazar Tarzs - as L.E.M.
        in the early to mid 19th century - would have to find a place between
        Janos Moneta and Yu Rangta somewhere. Unless there were more
        than one Living Eck Master at a time.

        Etznab



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      • etznab@aol.com
        Oops! Hipolito Fayolle & Janos Moneta in the 18th century - that would have been the 1700s! Who was the Living Eck Master before Yu Rangta? According to the
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 27, 2008
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             Oops! Hipolito Fayolle & Janos Moneta in the 18th
          century - that would have been the 1700s!

             Who was the Living Eck Master before Yu Rangta?
          According to the written history, it looks like there is
          room for Rebazar Tarzs.

          Etznab

            














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        • etznab@aol.com
          In a message dated 4/27/08 2:56:00 PM Central Daylight Time, ... I thought it was a good question you asked. However, this is not one of the subjects I have
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 27, 2008
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            In a message dated 4/27/08 2:56:00 PM Central Daylight Time, prometheus_973@... writes:


            When did Paul Twitchell (PT) first mention that
            Peddar Zaskq (PZ) was his Spiritual Name versus
            his Past Life Name?

            I don't think that Twitchell ever mentioned that
            Peddar Zaskq was his spiritual name! I think this
            was added late (after Twitchell's death), by others,
            in order to sort out and give a logical explanation
            to the conflicting data. PT's Eckankar Dictionary
            has a 1973 Copyright and the Shariyat One, where
            ECK Master Peddar is mentioned, has a 1970 Copyright.


               I thought it was a good question you asked. However,
            this is not one of the subjects I have researched in any
            depth. Instead, something else came to mind after I read
            your thread.

               What was brought to my attention was the book: The
            Drums of ECK. It was the first Eckankar book that I ever
            read, but that was over two decades ago.

               Just tonight I skimmed through it looking to learn
            whether it gave any history about who was the Living
            Eck Master then. The last paragraph of the Forward by
            Paul Twitchell mentions Rebazar Tarzs "... who was then
            the MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master." That is a little
            curious though, IMO, since that term was not very com-
            mon in the earlier written works. At least, not illustrated
            in that way - even though it might have been inserted
            retroactively into the earlier written works. Like when
            "MAHANTA appeared in the very first letter to Gail -
            in 1962 - according to some later editions of it, at least.
            And when Rebazar Tarzs appeared (Letter to Gail 1962)
            on the same page. I can't say for sure though if any of
            those terms appeared in the "original" Letter to Gail
            in 1962. Most everybody's works whom I read that
            researched this term - "Mahanta" - and when it was
            first used did not go back as far as 1962. Instead, the
            dates ranged around 1965 to 1969.

               In The Drums of ECK book, there was another ECK
            Master mentioned: "Juquila, the ECK Master of the
            Ancient Order of Vairagi ...." [p. 218, 1978 4th Printing]
            This was someone who the woman Sarita was close to.
            On p. 73 the names Rebazar Tarzs and Juquila are both
            illustrated in a way that looks like Sarita knew both of
            them. However, in the book, Peddar Zaskq seems to be
            guided mostly by Rebazar Tarzs. At the end of the book
            Sarita and Blake are married by Juquila in a ceremony
            that "almost" reads like an initiation, IMO.

               I didn't see Juquila mentioned any place else, or in
            the Eckankar Dictionary. My suspicion though is that
            the term "Eck Master", and how it was used in the be-
            ginning of the writings, was comparable to the Spiritual
            Travelers, of which there were more than one at a time.

               I believe the term "ECK Master" appeared illustrated
            in June and July 1968, "living ECK Master" in November
            1968, MAHANTA in early 1969 and "Living" in Living ECK
            Master capitalized in February 1970. [I need to check and
            verify if these were the very first appearances for those terms.
            Something hard to do without access to the earliest editions
            of the writings.]

               This is probably going off topic from your original
            thread, so I apologize for not starting a new thread
            topic for this message.

               At any rate, I think it's fair to assume The Drums
            of ECK was "written" as early as 1969 (since the
            Forward was dated 1969). Probably earlier than that
            would be my guess. Also, I would suspect this book
            might have included one of the first mentions of the
            name Peddar Zaskq.

               One of these days when it's possible to have every
            Eckankar book - and every version - in a computer file
            at the same time and one can go about and search
            the places where specific words first appear, I imagine
            it will be a lot easier to answer questions like the one
            that you asked. But to go about it the old fashioned
            way by flipping around through every book is probably
            a little (a lot) tedious for most people.

            Etznab



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          • etznab@aol.com
            In a message dated 4/27/08 10:35:55 PM Central Daylight Time, etznab@aol.com ... The Shariyat, Book One, mentions Peddar Zaskq as an Eck Master. A year later
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 27, 2008
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              In a message dated 4/27/08 10:35:55 PM Central Daylight Time, etznab@... writes:


              At any rate, I think it's fair to assume The Drums
              of ECK was "written" as early as 1969 (since the
              Forward was dated 1969). Probably earlier than that
              would be my guess. Also, I would suspect this book
              might have included one of the first mentions of the
              name Peddar Zaskq.


                 The Shariyat, Book One, mentions Peddar Zaskq as
              an Eck Master. A year later (1971) when the Spiritual
              Notebook came out, he was again mentioned as Eck
              Master [Eck should be large caps].

                 It leads me to wonder if (according to the writings)
              Paul Twitchell became a Spiritual Traveler in that one
              lifetime. Apparently, Rebazar Tarzs was working with
              him then (in the 1800s), according to some of the Eck
              writings.

                 The birth of Peddar Zaskq was said to have taken
              place around the time of a great earthquake. Except,
              according to Doug Marman:

              "One of the 13 earthquakes listed for 1909 occurred shortly
              after midnight of October 22. It was a 4.5 magnitude quake,
              centered on the Mississippi River, about 30 miles from Paul’s
              first home in Paducah, Kentucky."

              [Based on: Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. One]  

                 A Great Earthquake is magnitude 8.0 or above. Major is
              7.0 to 7.9. A Strong Earthquake is 6.0 to 6.9. Moderate is
              5.0 to 5.9. So, 4.5 is not a "Great" earthquake. According
              to modern terminology, it's a "Light" earthquake:

              http://www.geo.mtu.edu/UPSeis/magnitude.html

                 What I found curious though was that some people believe
              a Great Earthquake did occur in 1812. Allegedly, they did not
              have the same way to monitor and record the magnitude then,
              but I did chronicle a 7.8 and an 8.0 earthquake - according to
              usgs.gov - for 1812. Why this is curious to me is that the life
              of Peddar Zaskq mentioned in The Drums of ECK recounted
              the years 1846-1847. Subtract 1812 from 1846 and you get
              34. How old was Peddar Zaskq in The Drums of ECK? Was
              the "Great Earthquake" something that happened just before
              Peddar Zaskq was born?

                 When the Spiritual Notebook mentioned Peddar Zaskq, it
              suggested that he was born a few minutes after a great earth-
              quake shook the mid-South. Maybe Paul just called it "great",
              but the 1909 earthquake was (apparently) "light". Technically
              speaking.

                 A "Great" earthquake did occur in mid-South (New Madrid,
              Missouri) in 1812, as far as I can tell. However, I'm not sure
              whether history records the exact date when "Peddar Zaskq"
              was born.

                 For some reason I think this Drums of ECK book is one to
              look at. Wish I had the very first edition though. I think it's in-
              teresting because Paul Twitchell wrote about that time period
              in such detail. Probably more than any other Eck book that he
              wrote, this one gives the most examples of "history" for which
              other written records - probably verifiable records - do exist. It
              talks about real historical events and The Drums of ECK was
              said to be a true story. For some reason it interests me, and
              because Rebazar Tarzs was mentioned there.

              Etznab



                




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            • prometheus_973
              Hi Etznab, Do you have a copy of Difficulties of Becoming the Living ECK Master because Twit makes it all as clear as mud!? There are excerts from 1971
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 27, 2008
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                Hi Etznab,
                Do you have a copy of "Difficulties of Becoming
                the Living ECK Master" because Twit makes it
                all as clear as mud!?

                There are excerts from 1971 Mystic World articles
                beginning on page 250 from April-May-June
                and pages 251-253 from July-August-September
                that discuses Peddar Zaskq.

                What's really interesting is these were written just
                months before Twitchell's death. It, also, seems like
                Gail might have written what PT dictated to her.

                "No one really knows for sure where he came from,
                when he was born, or if his true name is really Paul
                Twitchell. How long he has been on the Earth planet
                is not known. BUT it is a fact that his Master Rebazar
                Tarzs, an ancient Tibetan lama, who appears to be in
                his early forties [like Twit?], was a young man when
                Columbus discovered America. [Yet there is no mention,
                here, as to RT sailing with or helping Columbus!]

                Paul, who is known to the world as Peddar Zaskq, which
                is his real name, is an occidental. [I guess thIs this how
                he got PZ as his "spiritual (past life) name!"]

                The majority of avatars have usually been orientals...
                This first ECK Master was Ramaj, the founder of the
                Ancient Order of Vairagi [really?]... They met to discuss
                the birth of the coming avatar for the twentieth century
                [Klemp wasn't mentioned too?], Peddar Zaskq. Born
                in the Caucasian mountains during the seventeenth
                century, he lived and was trained to the heights of
                spiritual perfection. [So, 20th century PT is really
                17 century PZ, or 20th century PZ is 17th century PZ!]

                ... This time the Ancient Prediction that a New World
                Avatar would be born on a great body of water, near
                the shores where horses grazed was to become true.
                [Is this the second coming of the Christ... what's with
                the horses... oh, the Kentucky Derby!]

                This time Peddar Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
                river packet enroute to New Orleans. [This time...
                isn't Soul to let go of past lives and live in the Now?]

                ... There appeared a blue carnation in a vase on a
                night table by the mother's bed. The work of the
                hierarchy was completed except for the training
                of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately arranged for
                him to be given a home in which to be raised.
                [I had read somewhere before that he was found
                near the river bank like Moses by his "step-sister"
                Kay-Dee]

                His foster parents raised him in a small southern
                river town. He adopted their name and became
                known as Paul Twitchell in the twentieth century."
                [end of quote]

                Wow! It sounds like old Twit was quite the liar and
                story teller! I wonder if Twit ever had any fish stories
                too?

                Anyway, if ECKists actually believe this crap then
                where does this place Klemp? If Twit or Zas was
                the 20th century "Avatar" (Saviour) that the ECK
                Hierarchy was anticipating, due to prophecy,
                where does that leave Klemp? Perhaps, HK's still
                in that Sound Proof Dark Room from 1980 and
                of his own making!

                Prometheus
                p.s. It seems that I read of Peddar Zaskq living
                in the late 1800s (19 century) and that he was
                involved in the war with Mexico somehow.
                Twit's imagination always took over and filled
                in the blanks in order to give impressionable
                people what they wanted and needed to hear.





                etznab@... wrote:
                >
                prometheus_writes:
                >
                >
                When did Paul Twitchell (PT) first mention that
                Peddar Zaskq (PZ) was his Spiritual Name versus
                his Past Life Name?
                > >
                I don't think that Twitchell ever mentioned that
                Peddar Zaskq was his spiritual name! I think this
                was added late (after Twitchell's death), by others,
                in order to sort out and give a logical explanation
                to the conflicting data. PT's Eckankar Dictionary
                has a 1973 Copyright and the Shariyat One, where
                ECK Master Peddar is mentioned, has a 1970 Copyright.
                > >
                >
                I thought it was a good question you asked. However,
                this is not one of the subjects I have researched in any
                depth. Instead, something else came to mind after I read
                your thread.
                >
              • Elizabeth
                Etznab wrote: Just tonight I skimmed through it looking to learn whether it gave any history about who was the Living Eck Master then. The last paragraph of
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 28, 2008
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                  Etznab wrote:
                     Just tonight I skimmed through it looking to learn
                  whether it gave any history about who was the Living
                  Eck Master then. The last paragraph of the Forward by
                  Paul Twitchell mentions Rebazar Tarzs "... who was then
                  the MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master." That is a little
                  curious though, IMO, 
                   
                   
                   
                  ...  Not so curious, recall eckankar claims RT is over 500 yrs old!
                   
                   

                     In The Drums of ECK book, there was another ECK
                  Master mentioned: "Juquila, the ECK Master of the
                  Ancient Order of Vairagi ...." [p. 218, 1978 4th Printing]
                  This was someone who the woman Sarita was close to.
                  On p. 73 the names Rebazar Tarzs and Juquila are both
                  illustrated in a way that looks like Sarita knew both of
                  them. However, in the book, Peddar Zaskq seems to be
                  guided mostly by Rebazar Tarzs. At the end of the book
                  Sarita and Blake are married by Juquila in a ceremony
                  that "almost" reads like an initiation, IMO.
                   
                   
                   
                  ...  Just thought I would point out, this wedding in TDOE is what was first used during eck weddings back in the day before eck weddings were recognized and legal  (one I witnessed in 1977 at a broken bow camp / seminar) 
                   

                     I didn't see Juquila mentioned any place else, or in
                  the Eckankar Dictionary. My suspicion though is that
                  the term "Eck Master", and how it was used in the be-
                  ginning of the writings, was comparable to the Spiritual
                  Travelers, of which there were more than one at a time.
                   
                  ... PT was using "spiritual traveler / seek / stranger by the river types....  way before he elevated himself to the grand poo baa  Mahanta.  I get the feeling PT was using / checking out lots of history books at the library where Gail was employed.  I also see many different "spins" to his PZ / PT stories, some taken from Christian paths, and even Buddhist  (think Dalai Lama).
                   
                   
                  "Dalai Lama
                  In Tibetan Buddhism, the successive Dalai Lamas form a lineage of allegedly reborn (tulku) magistrates which traces back to 1391. They are of the Gelug sect of Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhists believe the Dalai Lama to be one of innumerable incarnations of Avalokiteśvara ("Chenrezig" [spyan ras gzigs] in Tibetan), the bodhisattva of compassion.
                   
                  He is often styled "His Holiness" (HH) before his title.
                   
                  The bodhisattva who is the reincarnation of Avalokiteshvara , a.k.a. Chenrezig , the bodhisattva of Compassion. He is a single being who has been reincarnated 14 times as the Dalai Lama. See also lama . The Dalai Lama has always been a combination the chief spiritual leader and the chief political leader of Tibet. 
                   
                  ... RT was / is a great Tibetan Master....  Wonder why HH never mentions him?   

                    
                • etznab@aol.com
                  In a message dated 4/28/08 12:39:36 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Yeah, I got that. The 17th century would have been the 1600s. The life of Peddar Zaskq in The
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 28, 2008
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                    In a message dated 4/28/08 12:39:36 AM Central Daylight Time, prometheus_973@... writes:


                    Do you have a copy of "Difficulties of Becoming
                    the Living ECK Master" because Twit makes it
                    all as clear as mud!?

                    There are excerts from 1971 Mystic World articles
                    beginning on page 250 from April-May-June
                    and pages 251-253 from July-August-September
                    that discuses Peddar Zaskq.


                       Yeah, I got that.

                       The 17th century would have been the 1600s. The
                    life of Peddar Zaskq in The Drums of ECK was in the
                    19th century.

                       Like I said before, I think it's a good question about
                    the history of "Peddar Zaskq". The written history is
                    suspect, IMO, and warrants further research to sort
                    out the true from the false. At least, that is the way it
                    looks to me right now.

                    Etznab



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                  • etznab@aol.com
                    In a message dated 4/28/08 7:35:21 AM Central Daylight Time, ... Thanks for sharing that history I was (until now) not aware of. Etznab ************** Need a
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 28, 2008
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                      In a message dated 4/28/08 7:35:21 AM Central Daylight Time, ewickings@... writes:


                      ...  Just thought I would point out, this wedding in TDOE is what was first used during eck weddings back in the day before eck weddings were recognized and legal  (one I witnessed in 1977 at a broken bow camp / seminar)


                         Thanks for sharing that history I was (until now) not aware of.

                      Etznab




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                    • prometheus_973
                      Hi All, It is interesting that PT claims Rebazar Tarzs (RT) Was or Is Still a Tibetan Lama who is also 500 years old! Yet, the Dali Lama has never mentioned
                      Message 10 of 10 , Apr 28, 2008
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                        Hi All,
                        It is interesting that PT claims Rebazar Tarzs
                        (RT) Was or Is Still a Tibetan Lama who is also
                        500 years old! Yet, the Dali Lama has never
                        mentioned Rebazar Tarzs' name! Why? Because
                        it's more fiction by Twitchell!

                        "But it is a FACT that his (PT's) Master Rebazar Tarzs,
                        an ancient Tibetan lama, who appears in his early
                        forties, was a young man when Columbus discovered
                        America." [Difficulties of Becoming the Living ECK Master,
                        pg. 250]

                        It's, also, interesting to note that Rebazar "was a young
                        man when Columbus discovered America." So, was RT
                        an ECK Master as a young man?

                        Did RT help Columbus on his (EK) mission to discover
                        "protein" with Fubbi's influence, although, RT was just a
                        "young man" at the time?

                        And yes, it does look like Twit was slyly associating
                        himself (Peddar) to be a past life EK Master, and from
                        another incarnation. PT did this to further establish his
                        lineage as a present day EK Master in his, then, current
                        incarnation. This is similar to Buddhist beliefs! After all,
                        PT's Master (Tibetan lama Rebazar) is Paul's fictitious link
                        to verify these "facts."

                        Prometheus

                        "Elizabeth" wrote:
                        >
                        Etznab wrote:

                        > "Dalai Lama
                        > In Tibetan Buddhism, the successive Dalai Lamas form a lineage of allegedly
                        > reborn (tulku) magistrates which traces back to 1391. They are of the Gelug
                        > sect of Buddhism. Tibetan Buddhists believe the Dalai Lama to be one of
                        > innumerable incarnations of Avalokiteœvara ("Chenrezig" [spyan ras gzigs] in
                        > Tibetan), the bodhisattva of compassion.
                        >
                        > He is often styled "His Holiness" (HH) before his title.
                        >
                        > The bodhisattva who is the reincarnation of Avalokiteshvara , a.k.a.
                        > Chenrezig , the bodhisattva of Compassion. He is a single being who has been
                        > reincarnated 14 times as the Dalai Lama. See also lama . The Dalai Lama has
                        > always been a combination the chief spiritual leader and the chief political
                        > leader of Tibet.
                        >
                        > ... RT was / is a great Tibetan Master.... Wonder why HH never mentions
                        > him?
                        >
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