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Re: April 2008 Letter of Light-More Nonsense!

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  • ctecvie
    Hi Prometheus and all, See my comments in between. :-) ... ****Sure, life s exchange and so is friendship! That s nothing bad and only scary for little ekkies!
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 18, 2008
      Hi Prometheus and all,

      See my comments in between. :-)

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Questions for the Master...
      >
      > "How does my being in Eckankar as a
      > teenager affect my friends?

      ****Well, maybe they consider him/her as weird but play along?? ;-)
      >
      > Are there ways I can affect my friends
      > that that I am not aware of?"

      ****Sure, life's exchange and so is friendship! That's nothing bad
      and only scary for little ekkies! LOL!
      >
      > --ECK Rite of Passage Class in Illinois
      >
      > ME: Maybe they should read PT's "Letters
      > to Gail III" to learn some psychic mind control
      > techniques, or are they hinting at wanting
      > to know about Black Magic? Apparently they
      > think Klemp will help them with their desires
      > on how to influence people as EK vahanas.

      ****Of course the question was meant that way ... ekkies like to
      think that they are teachers to everybody else because they - the
      ekkies know so much about life! Just go read the thread of replies to
      a question a newcomer asked about his love relationship! All the
      answers are so vague because it's a big no-no among the ekkies to be
      specific - could be seen as "negative behavior"! :-)
      >
      > Here's Klemp's insightful reply to the first
      > question of:
      >
      > How does being in Eckankar as a teenager
      > affect my friends?
      >
      > HK: "This reminds me of an old routine
      > by humorist Bill Cosby. At a party, he was
      > approached by a man who was high on an
      > illegal substance. Cosby asked him why he
      > takes it. The man said it makes you more
      > of what you are. Cosby's sharp wit was
      > undoubtedly lost on the other. He replied,
      > 'But what if you're an _________?' (You'll
      > have to fill in the blank yourself.) I think
      > you get the point."
      >
      > ME: Do you think these EK youths know anything
      > about Bill Cosby's 'old routines?' Why does HK
      > always go to the distant past for one of his
      > stupid replies that don't really fit the question?
      > Didn't Karl Marx say that religion is the opiate
      > of the people. Maybe these young ECKists want
      > Klemp to give them a fix so they can get high.
      > If that's so then Cosby's reply to "it makes you
      > more of what you are" could be 'But what if
      > you're an asshole/delusional ECKist?'

      ****I think the distant past is safe territory for little Harry! Just
      don't rock the boat, stay in the past and don't comment on anything
      happening currently, or choose a recent quote!
      >
      > Here's Klemp's reply to: "Are there WAYS I can
      > AFFECT my friends that I am NOT AWARE OF?"
      >
      > HK: "The second part of your question can only
      > be answered by considering each class member
      > individually. To be sure it all begins and ends
      > with you, the individual.

      ****This reminds me again of the thread on huchat! Basically they all
      said the same thing. Well, they can't do otherwise as their master
      isn't able to be specific either!
      >
      > What is your personality like?
      > Are you open or reserved?
      > What kinds of people do you attract for friends?
      >
      > Some will be more open than others to hear
      > your story about what the ECK teachings have
      > done for you. A real friend will continue the
      > friendship.
      ****So, is it about breaking up friendship because of eckankar? Maybe
      the friends really think that the ekkie is too weird to continue the
      friendship? Is Klemp saying that, for enduring such a nonsense cult
      member, it is necessary to be a "true friend"? Maybe one who would
      save the ekkie from his weird religion? LOL!
      >
      > ME: What about the Group Consciousness of
      > Satsang or the Consciousness of one's Initiation
      > Circle? Why not coordinate Worldwide HU Chants?
      >
      > Why does Klemp now say that it's an individual
      > effort? That's not what is taught... it's always
      > a co-dependent relationship with the Mahanta.
      > What's the purpose for a group religion if it's
      > an individual effort? Klemp is intentionally
      > confusing these EK youths with his gibberish.
      >
      > Also, Why is Klemp talking about personality,
      > and being open or reserved, etc. People just
      > need to be truthful and honest and not have
      > hidden agendas like trying to convert others
      > to Eckankar. This EK missionary crap Will affect
      > their relationships with both non-ECK friends
      > and family.
      >
      > Klemp is so lame with his answers that it requires
      > more second guessing (as usual). This is how HK
      > keeps his followers off balance and needing him
      > to supply more silly details later... except, it's much
      > ado about nothing. Do ECKists really need an outer
      > LEM that imparts Bill Cosby wisdom? Maybe Cosby
      > should be the LEM instead of Klemp! ;-)

      ****I think the motto is the more vague the better! Nobody can
      complain about an ekkie or eckankar in particular! LOL! And, maybe,
      Bill Cosby would indeed be a better master of the universe than
      little Harry! But I guess he's not interested - has a far more
      interesting job to do! LOL!
      Ingrid
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Here s a question for master Harry from another EK Youth: Q: Part of being a good leader is allowing other people the space to serve as they can, BUT
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 21, 2008
        Here's a question for master Harry from
        another EK Youth:

        Q: "Part of being a good leader is allowing
        other people the space to serve as they can,
        BUT sometimes when people shirk their
        responsibilities I tend to get upset very easily."

        ME: If the EK org. gave people enough space
        perhaps they could, also, have a choice on
        Whether or Not they wanted to "serve." Besides,
        maybe they "Changed" their minds about wanting
        to be one of Klemp's "Z"ombies, but don't know
        how to tell the person in charge, or know how to
        resign without creating hard feeling due to peer
        pressure and intimidation from people like this
        EK Youth Leader.

        Q: "Then I remind myself that I must Not judge
        other people by my standards, BUT I also feel
        that self-discipline is an important part of our
        spiritual education."

        ME: No! It's part of your "spiritual education!"
        Don't be concerned about wanting to "Change"
        other people because they will "change" via
        your positive (or negative) influence, or on their
        own, or not at all... or maybe just in small ways!
        This ECKist is the one who needs self-discipline
        from judging others and from being an anal
        retentive perfectionist.

        Q: "People should do what they have agreed to do."

        ME: Not always! If I agreed to support your political
        candidate and then, later, found out some things he
        had said in the past, or something about his senate
        voting record that I didn't like then I should be able
        to "change" my mind. The same goes for most things.
        People should always have the freedom to "change"
        their minds. Maybury is an idiot and so is Klemp!

        Q: "Then I seesaw between feeling upset over this
        and feeling guilty. Could you please teach me the
        best way to handle this situation."

        ME: For one thing be more concerned about your
        own spiritual growth and values than in others.
        And, HK can't help you with "feeling guilty." Look
        at how he's handled Darwin's death! Besides, In
        the Eckankar hierarchy and RESA orgs there will be
        many times where you will see incompetent people
        being promoted in both higher initiations and in
        position (HK for one). Just realize that the initiations
        are bogus and this is why this happens... it's no mystery
        and they are Not more advanced on the inner or whatever.
        You are seeing and hearing and observing who they
        are (basically) and who they are pretending "as if"
        to be. Soul is a private state observed within.

        Now for Klemp's wisdom:

        HK: "Dear Nicole, Being a good leader in a given
        situation starts with us. Our own self-discipline
        is on the line. When working with a group of people,

        [1] first define the task.
        [2] Second, either assign the task to the most qualified
        person or ask for a volunteer.
        [3] Third, set a deadline.
        [4] Fourth, on your calendar, set a date by which to
        check up on each person and
        [5] ask how that person's task is coming along.

        These four [5] steps will do a lot to avoid unpleasant
        surprises. IF someone has fallen behind, [6] offer your
        help or that of another. In this way, you remind people
        of the responsibility they have undertaken. Should
        someone fail to finish his task by deadline, [7] ask
        what happened. [8] Then listen. [9] Are the reasons
        sound? That does beg the question, though: [10]
        WHY didn't you give me an update so you and I could
        have worked something out? [11] Keep a private log
        that lists [12] the date, [13] the task, [14] the person
        in charge, [15] whether it was finished on time, and
        last, [16] a comments column. [17] Do Not give a task
        to someone who repeatedly misses the deadline.

        You will thus be developing good leaders to help you
        tell others about the beautiful teachings of ECK."
        [end of HK's response]

        ME: Yes! I enjoyed the way Klemp told "others about
        the beautiful teachings of ECK!" Make no mistake,
        these 17 points (four by HK's count) are part of the
        teachings of ECK! However, should HK be encouraging
        his EK leaders to confront and grill chelas as to Why
        something was Not done? It is what it is... or isn't!
        What if the reasons aren't "sound" in their opinion?
        What are EK leaders going to do, or say, or write into
        their log... something negative perhaps? Discretion and
        discrimination aren't Harry's strong points!

        BTW- Someone should tell Klemp that the term
        "deadline" is Not used by EK Leaders... it's "goal-line."

        Is HK training this EK Youth to become one of his
        RESA Police? It sure sounds like it! Where's the love
        and understanding? Sure, some people want to take
        on all kinds of responsibilities and titles because it
        gets one noticed and that gets one promoted. Its
        the Initiation (ego/fear) game. Also, a chela can always
        play the blame game and shift their shortcomings
        to someone else or to other factors as to why something
        didn't get done. Reality happens! HK talks about
        keeping records on people... this sounds more and
        more like Scientology! It's getting closer to this, and
        whackier, as Klemp's melon ripens to being like L. Ron's!
        But No! Scientology is just too insanely organized to
        compare it to the unorganized chaos and disharmony
        of EK! Most of Eckankar's chelas haven't completely gone
        over the deep edge... just yet! There's still hope that
        some will soon WAKE UP!

        Prometheus


        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Questions for the Master... [1]
        >
        > "How does my being in Eckankar as a
        > teenager affect my friends?
        >
        > Are there ways I can affect my friends
        > that that I am not aware of?"
        >
        > --ECK Rite of Passage Class in Illinois
        >
        > ME: Maybe they should read PT's "Letters
        > to Gail III" to learn some psychic mind control
        > techniques, or are they hinting at wanting
        > to know about Black Magic? Apparently they
        > think Klemp will help them with their desires
        > on how to influence people as EK vahanas.
        >
        > Here's Klemp's insightful reply to the first
        > question of:
        >
        > How does being in Eckankar as a teenager
        > affect my friends?
        >
        > HK: "This reminds me of an old routine
        > by humorist Bill Cosby. At a party, he was
        > approached by a man who was high on an
        > illegal substance. Cosby asked him why he
        > takes it. The man said it makes you more
        > of what you are. Cosby's sharp wit was
        > undoubtedly lost on the other. He replied,
        > 'But what if you're an _________?' (You'll
        > have to fill in the blank yourself.) I think
        > you get the point."
        >
        > ME: Do you think these EK youths know anything
        > about Bill Cosby's 'old routines?' Why does HK
        > always go to the distant past for one of his
        > stupid replies that don't really fit the question?
        > Didn't Karl Marx say that religion is the opiate
        > of the people. Maybe these young ECKists want
        > Klemp to give them a fix so they can get high.
        > If that's so then Cosby's reply to "it makes you
        > more of what you are" could be 'But what if
        > you're an asshole/delusional ECKist?'
        >
        > Here's Klemp's reply to: "Are there WAYS I can
        > AFFECT my friends that I am NOT AWARE OF?"
        >
        > HK: "The second part of your question can only
        > be answered by considering each class member
        > individually. To be sure it all begins and ends
        > with you, the individual.
        >
        > What is your personality like?
        > Are you open or reserved?
        > What kinds of people do you attract for friends?
        >
        > Some will be more open than others to hear
        > your story about what the ECK teachings have
        > done for you. A real friend will continue the
        > friendship."
        >
        > ME: What about the Group Consciousness of
        > Satsang or the Consciousness of one's Initiation
        > Circle? Why not coordinate Worldwide HU Chants?
        >
        > Why does Klemp now say that it's an individual
        > effort? That's not what is taught... it's always
        > a co-dependent relationship with the Mahanta.
        > What's the purpose for a group religion if it's
        > an individual effort? Klemp is intentionally
        > confusing these EK youths with his gibberish.
        >
        > Also, Why is Klemp talking about personality,
        > and being open or reserved, etc. People just
        > need to be truthful and honest and not have
        > hidden agendas like trying to convert others
        > to Eckankar. This EK missionary crap Will affect
        > their relationships with both non-ECK friends
        > and family.
        >
        > Klemp is so lame with his answers that it requires
        > more second guessing (as usual). This is how HK
        > keeps his followers off balance and needing him
        > to supply more silly details later... except, it's much
        > ado about nothing. Do ECKists really need an outer
        > LEM that imparts Bill Cosby wisdom? Maybe Cosby
        > should be the LEM instead of Klemp! ;-)
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Questions for the Master... #3 Wendy (age 25): A while ago, I was doing a spiritual exercise that was an extension of the AS IF principle. At the time, I
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 25, 2008
          Questions for the Master... #3

          Wendy (age 25):
          "A while ago, I was doing a spiritual exercise
          that was an extension of the 'AS IF' principle.
          At the time, I was Unhappy with Work and
          Relationship Issues, and so I began to write
          in my journal each day about THE LIFE I WANTED
          TO CREATE FOR MYSELF.

          It changed me completely and helped me focus
          on particular goals. Within weeks, the experience
          I had written about in my journal began to manifest.

          HOW do I know, when practicing an exercise of
          this nature, that I am Working in Alignment With
          Spiritual Law and Not Infringing on the Spiritual
          Freedom of Others?"

          ********Now for Klemp's Wisdom********

          HK: "Dear Wendy, In your first paragraph, the Key
          Words are 'the life I wanted to create for myself.'
          (1) So was it an upright, honest goal?

          Then, in your Third paragraph, the Key Words are
          'working in alignment with spiritual law and not
          infringing on the spiritual freedom of others.'
          One could too casually say, (2) Well, are you?
          BUT that is exactly your question."

          ME: I can't resist making a comment about
          HK's response. Klemp repeats what she has
          already stated, for all to read, and doesn't add
          anything relevant. What's the point, except to
          act "as if' he's above the fray. As a millionaire
          hermit I guess he is... until he goes to the mall.

          HK: "So give room for the ECK, the Mahanta,
          to determine whether your goal is in keeping
          with the divine laws."

          ME: So, does each ECKist (like Wendy) need a
          written reply from the Mahanta in order to "know"
          whether their goals are in keeping with the divine
          laws? It seems they do or else they are making
          erroneous "as if" assumptions! Where/When does
          Self-Mastery and Spiritual Freedom come into play?
          Probably never! It's a never ending Co-dependent
          relationship!

          HK: "Phrase your Wishes [to the Genie?] on this
          order:

          (1) 'IF I am ready, let me pass from present situations
          into ones more in keeping with a higher state of
          consciousness.'

          ME: Why does this need to be asked in the first place?
          When one is ready and has learned the lessons and
          worked off the karma then the Mahanta should "know"
          without the chela asking. After all, one can only ask
          for the 2nd Initiation... after that the Mahanta should
          "know" all about all of his chelas... so the story (not the
          reality) goes.

          HK: (2) "Then hold your Wishes lightly in MIND. And
          let whatever will be, be."

          ME: Isn't the KAL in charge of the 4th Mental Plane?
          How does the Mahanta help his chelas when he states
          "let whatever will be, be?" The secular world does the
          same! The Unity School of Christianity teaches Let Go
          and Let God!

          HK: "Do Not overlook an important fact. Your ability
          to even envision a brighter future is Not by chance.
          This vision alone is saying something that is obvious.
          It says that you are no longer satisfied with things as
          they have become. (3) WHO or WHAT has changed?"

          ME: It's obvious that Klemp isn't saying anything, except,
          what she has already stated! She said, "I was unhappy
          with work and relationship issues." But she then stated
          that she "began to manifest" changes that she created
          via the "as if principle."

          Her concern, basically, was whether or not she was
          in "alignment with spiritual law" or was performing
          Black Magic and harming or "infringing on the spiritual
          freedom of others."

          The Key to Wendy's concern: WHO or WHAT HAS
          CHANGED (from her wishes) OTHER THAN HERSELF...?

          HK: "This answer is purposely vague. (4) You must examine
          these and other such issues honestly in your own heart.
          (5) Ask the Inner Master's guidance too."

          ME: Klemp, you fool! That's what she was doing!
          How can any ECKist trust their Inner Master experiences
          after Graham used charged words (HU, etc.) and was
          given the Rod of ECK Power to hold, briefly, by a
          Silent Master... and upon reporting this in an IRO he
          was demoted to a 1st Initiate!

          It is interesting that HK states, "give room to
          the ECK, the Mahanta" which suggests that the
          LEM is Not the ECK, or even one with the ECK!
          Isn't this LEM a 14th Initiate and shouldn't he
          be able to give chelas answers just as the Mahanta,
          or Inner Master can? Maybe Klemp doesn't want
          to give written answers any longer since he only
          shows (unknowingly) how stupid he is.

          Prometheus


          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Here's a question for master Harry from
          > another EK Youth (age 24):
          >
          > Q: "Part of being a good leader is allowing
          > other people the space to serve as they can,
          > BUT sometimes when people shirk their
          > responsibilities I tend to get upset very easily."
          >
          > ME: If the EK org. gave people enough space
          > perhaps they could, also, have a choice on
          > Whether or Not they wanted to "serve." Besides,
          > maybe they "Changed" their minds about wanting
          > to be one of Klemp's "Z"ombies, but don't know
          > how to tell the person in charge, or know how to
          > resign without creating hard feeling due to peer
          > pressure and intimidation from people like this
          > EK Youth Leader.
          >
          > Q: "Then I remind myself that I must Not judge
          > other people by my standards, BUT I also feel
          > that self-discipline is an important part of our
          > spiritual education."
          >
          > ME: No! It's part of your "spiritual education!"
          > Don't be concerned about wanting to "Change"
          > other people because they will "change" via
          > your positive (or negative) influence, or on their
          > own, or not at all... or maybe just in small ways!
          > This ECKist is the one who needs self-discipline
          > from judging others and from being an anal
          > retentive perfectionist.
          >
          > Q: "People should do what they have agreed to do."
          >
          > ME: Not always! If I agreed to support your political
          > candidate and then, later, found out some things he
          > had said in the past, or something about his senate
          > voting record that I didn't like then I should be able
          > to "change" my mind. The same goes for most things.
          > People should always have the freedom to "change"
          > their minds. Maybury is an idiot and so is Klemp!
          >
          > Q: "Then I seesaw between feeling upset over this
          > and feeling guilty. Could you please teach me the
          > best way to handle this situation."
          >
          > ME: For one thing be more concerned about your
          > own spiritual growth and values than in others.
          > And, HK can't help you with "feeling guilty." Look
          > at how he's handled Darwin's death! Besides, In
          > the Eckankar hierarchy and RESA orgs there will be
          > many times where you will see incompetent people
          > being promoted in both higher initiations and in
          > position (HK for one). Just realize that the initiations
          > are bogus and this is why this happens... it's no mystery
          > and they are Not more advanced on the inner or whatever.
          > You are seeing and hearing and observing who they
          > are (basically) and who they are pretending "as if"
          > to be. Soul is a private state observed within.
          >
          > Now for Klemp's wisdom:
          >
          > HK: "Dear Nicole, Being a good leader in a given
          > situation starts with us. Our own self-discipline
          > is on the line. When working with a group of people,
          >
          > [1] first define the task.
          > [2] Second, either assign the task to the most qualified
          > person or ask for a volunteer.
          > [3] Third, set a deadline.
          > [4] Fourth, on your calendar, set a date by which to
          > check up on each person and
          > [5] ask how that person's task is coming along.
          >
          > These four [5] steps will do a lot to avoid unpleasant
          > surprises. IF someone has fallen behind, [6] offer your
          > help or that of another. In this way, you remind people
          > of the responsibility they have undertaken. Should
          > someone fail to finish his task by deadline, [7] ask
          > what happened. [8] Then listen. [9] Are the reasons
          > sound? That does beg the question, though: [10]
          > WHY didn't you give me an update so you and I could
          > have worked something out? [11] Keep a private log
          > that lists [12] the date, [13] the task, [14] the person
          > in charge, [15] whether it was finished on time, and
          > last, [16] a comments column. [17] Do Not give a task
          > to someone who repeatedly misses the deadline.
          >
          > You will thus be developing good leaders to help you
          > tell others about the beautiful teachings of ECK."
          > [end of HK's response]
          >
          > ME: Yes! I enjoyed the way Klemp told "others about
          > the beautiful teachings of ECK!" Make no mistake,
          > these 17 points (four by HK's count) are part of the
          > teachings of ECK! However, should HK be encouraging
          > his EK leaders to confront and grill chelas as to Why
          > something was Not done? It is what it is... or isn't!
          > What if the reasons aren't "sound" in their opinion?
          > What are EK leaders going to do, or say, or write into
          > their log... something negative perhaps? Discretion and
          > discrimination aren't Harry's strong points!
          >
          > BTW- Someone should tell Klemp that the term
          > "deadline" is Not used by EK Leaders... it's "goal-line."
          >
          > Is HK training this EK Youth to become one of his
          > RESA Police? It sure sounds like it! Where's the love
          > and understanding? Sure, some people want to take
          > on all kinds of responsibilities and titles because it
          > gets one noticed and that gets one promoted. Its
          > the Initiation (ego/fear) game. Also, a chela can always
          > play the blame game and shift their shortcomings
          > to someone else or to other factors as to why something
          > didn't get done. Reality happens! HK talks about
          > keeping records on people... this sounds more and
          > more like Scientology! It's getting closer to this, and
          > whackier, as Klemp's melon ripens to being like L. Ron's!
          > But No! Scientology is just too insanely organized to
          > compare it to the unorganized chaos and disharmony
          > of EK! Most of Eckankar's chelas haven't completely gone
          > over the deep edge... just yet! There's still hope that
          > some will soon WAKE UP!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > Questions for the Master... [1]
          > >
          > > "How does my being in Eckankar as a
          > > teenager affect my friends?
          > >
          > > Are there ways I can affect my friends
          > > that that I am not aware of?"
          > >
          > > --ECK Rite of Passage Class in Illinois
          > >
          > > ME: Maybe they should read PT's "Letters
          > > to Gail III" to learn some psychic mind control
          > > techniques, or are they hinting at wanting
          > > to know about Black Magic? Apparently they
          > > think Klemp will help them with their desires
          > > on how to influence people as EK vahanas.
          > >
          > > Here's Klemp's insightful reply to the first
          > > question of:
          > >
          > > How does being in Eckankar as a teenager
          > > affect my friends?
          > >
          > > HK: "This reminds me of an old routine
          > > by humorist Bill Cosby. At a party, he was
          > > approached by a man who was high on an
          > > illegal substance. Cosby asked him why he
          > > takes it. The man said it makes you more
          > > of what you are. Cosby's sharp wit was
          > > undoubtedly lost on the other. He replied,
          > > 'But what if you're an _________?' (You'll
          > > have to fill in the blank yourself.) I think
          > > you get the point."
          > >
          > > ME: Do you think these EK youths know anything
          > > about Bill Cosby's 'old routines?' Why does HK
          > > always go to the distant past for one of his
          > > stupid replies that don't really fit the question?
          > > Didn't Karl Marx say that religion is the opiate
          > > of the people. Maybe these young ECKists want
          > > Klemp to give them a fix so they can get high.
          > > If that's so then Cosby's reply to "it makes you
          > > more of what you are" could be 'But what if
          > > you're an asshole/delusional ECKist?'
          > >
          > > Here's Klemp's reply to: "Are there WAYS I can
          > > AFFECT my friends that I am NOT AWARE OF?"
          > >
          > > HK: "The second part of your question can only
          > > be answered by considering each class member
          > > individually. To be sure it all begins and ends
          > > with you, the individual.
          > >
          > > What is your personality like?
          > > Are you open or reserved?
          > > What kinds of people do you attract for friends?
          > >
          > > Some will be more open than others to hear
          > > your story about what the ECK teachings have
          > > done for you. A real friend will continue the
          > > friendship."
          > >
          > > ME: What about the Group Consciousness of
          > > Satsang or the Consciousness of one's Initiation
          > > Circle? Why not coordinate Worldwide HU Chants?
          > >
          > > Why does Klemp now say that it's an individual
          > > effort? That's not what is taught... it's always
          > > a co-dependent relationship with the Mahanta.
          > > What's the purpose for a group religion if it's
          > > an individual effort? Klemp is intentionally
          > > confusing these EK youths with his gibberish.
          > >
          > > Also, Why is Klemp talking about personality,
          > > and being open or reserved, etc. People just
          > > need to be truthful and honest and not have
          > > hidden agendas like trying to convert others
          > > to Eckankar. This EK missionary crap Will affect
          > > their relationships with both non-ECK friends
          > > and family.
          > >
          > > Klemp is so lame with his answers that it requires
          > > more second guessing (as usual). This is how HK
          > > keeps his followers off balance and needing him
          > > to supply more silly details later... except, it's much
          > > ado about nothing. Do ECKists really need an outer
          > > LEM that imparts Bill Cosby wisdom? Maybe Cosby
          > > should be the LEM instead of Klemp! ;-)
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          The 1st Q&A in the June 2009, The Mystic World comes from the April 2008, The Letter of Light. Klemp is just too lazy and disrespectful of his followers to
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 6, 2009
            The 1st Q&A in the June 2009, The
            Mystic World comes from the April
            2008, The Letter of Light. Klemp is
            just too lazy and disrespectful of
            his followers to dream up a current
            message!

            Why, then, do EKists need a "living"
            Master when HK just recycles old opinions/
            articles!

            This is a repost of The Letter of Light,
            Questions for the Master, April 2008.

            Here's the same Question and Answer,
            for ECKists today (more than one year
            later), that appears in The Mystic World
            of ECKankar, Ask the Master, June 2009-

            April 2008 LoL/June 2009 TMW:

            Q: "Part of being a good leader is allowing
            other people the space to serve as they can,
            BUT sometimes when people shirk their
            responsibilities I tend to get upset very easily."

            ME: If the EK org. gave people enough space
            perhaps they could, also, have a choice on
            Whether or Not they wanted to "serve." Besides,
            maybe they "Changed" their minds about wanting
            to be one of Klemp's "Z"ombies, but don't know
            how to tell the person in charge, or know how to
            resign without creating hard feeling due to peer
            pressure and intimidation from people like this
            EK Youth Leader.

            Q (continued): "Then I remind myself that I must
            Not judge other people by my standards, BUT
            I also feel that self-discipline is an important part
            of our spiritual education."

            ME: No! It's part of your "spiritual education!"
            Don't be concerned about wanting to "Change"
            other people because they will "change" via
            your positive (or negative) influence, or on their
            own, or not at all... or maybe just in small ways!
            This ECKist is the one who needs self-discipline
            from judging others and from being an anal
            retentive perfectionist.

            Q (continued): "People should do what they
            have agreed to do."

            ME: Not always! If I agreed to support your political
            candidate and then, later, found out some things he
            had said in the past, or something about his senate
            voting record that I didn't like then I should be able
            to "change" my mind. The same goes for most things.
            People should always have the freedom to "change"
            their minds. Maybury is an idiot and so is Klemp!

            Q (continued): "Then I seesaw between feeling
            upset over this and feeling guilty. Could you please
            teach me the best way to handle this situation."

            ME: For one thing be more concerned about your
            own spiritual growth and values than in others.
            And, HK can't help you with "feeling guilty." Look
            at how he's handled Darwin's death! Besides, In
            the Eckankar hierarchy and RESA orgs there will be
            many times where you will see incompetent people
            being promoted in both higher initiations and in
            position (HK for one). Just realize that the initiations
            are bogus and this is why this happens... it's no mystery
            and they are Not more advanced on the inner or whatever.
            You are seeing and hearing and observing who they
            are (basically) and who they are pretending "as if"
            to be. Soul is a private state observed within.

            Now for Klemp's spin (he can't count either!):

            HK: "Dear Nicole, Being a good leader in a given
            situation starts with us. Our own self-discipline
            is on the line. When working with a group of people,

            [1] first define the task.

            [2] Second, either assign the task to the
            most qualified person or ask for a volunteer.

            [3] Third, set a deadline.

            [4] Fourth, on your calendar, set a date by
            which to check up on each person and

            [5] ask how that person's task is coming along.

            These Four [5] steps will do a lot to avoid unpleasant
            surprises. IF someone has fallen behind, [6] offer your
            help or that of another. In this way, you remind people
            of the responsibility they have undertaken. Should
            someone fail to finish his task by deadline, [7] ask
            what happened. [8] Then listen. [9] Are the reasons
            sound? That does beg the question, though: [10]
            WHY didn't you give me an update so you and I could
            have worked something out? [11] Keep a private log
            that lists [12] the date, [13] the task, [14] the person
            in charge, [15] whether it was finished on time, and
            last, [16] a comments column. [17] Do Not give a task
            to someone who repeatedly misses the deadline.

            You will thus be developing good leaders to help you
            tell others about the beautiful teachings of ECK."
            [end of HK's response]

            ME: Yes! I enjoyed the way Klemp told "others about
            the beautiful teachings of ECK!" Make no mistake,
            these 17 steps (four by HK's count) are part of the
            teachings of ECK! However, should HK be encouraging
            his EK leaders to confront and grill chelas as to Why
            something was Not done? It is what it is... or isn't!
            What if the reasons aren't "sound" in their opinion?
            What are EK leaders going to do, or say, or write into
            their log... something negative perhaps? Discretion and
            discrimination aren't Harry's strong points!

            BTW- Someone should tell Klemp that the term
            "deadline" is Not used by EK Leaders... it's "goal-line."

            Is HK training this EK Youth to become one of his
            RESA Police? It sure sounds like it! Where's the love
            and understanding? Sure, some people want to take
            on all kinds of responsibilities and titles because it
            gets one noticed and that gets one promoted. Its
            the Initiation (ego/fear) game. Also, a chela can always
            play the blame game and shift their shortcomings
            to someone else or to other factors as to why something
            didn't get done. Reality happens! HK talks about
            keeping records on people... this sounds more and
            more like Scientology! It's getting closer to this, and
            whackier, as Klemp's melon ripens to being like L. Ron's!
            But No! Scientology is just too insanely organized to
            compare it to the unorganized chaos and disharmony
            of EK! Most of Eckankar's chelas haven't completely gone
            over the deep edge... just yet! There's still hope that
            some will soon WAKE UP!

            Prometheus
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