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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] EK Levels of Con. & Initiation... No Virgin ...

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  • etznab@aol.com
    In the Intro. to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One, Paul Twitchell included the words legends , stories , allegories & fables concerning the writing. At
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 8, 2008

         In the Intro. to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One,
      Paul Twitchell included the words "legends", "stories",
      "allegories" & "fables" concerning the writing. At least,
      that appeared in the 1997 version. The Shariyat, Book
      One, includes the section on "virgin birth".

         What is missing, in my opinion, are the indicators
      about what is legend, story, allegory, or fable, etc. It
      might seem that part would have to be determined by
      the reader. There might be some, but I doubt that very
      many Eckists would argue Harold Klemp was "born of
      a virgin".

         Personally, I don't believe the "virgin birth" subject
      is a literal truth. I would call it something else. Also,
      I'd suspect that Paul Twitchell and others "borrowed"
      from "existing beliefs" when putting together history
      for the teachings. Afterall, The Far Country, by Paul
      Twitchell, is not the only Eckankar book with text &
      sections similar to teachings that were already then
      in existence, or in print. A number of teachings one
      can find in other books by other authors - like Julian
      Johnson, etc. - show up in numerous places through-
      out the Eckankar literature. Including the Shariyat-Ki-
      Sugmad!

         Knowing this, it has become evident to me that the
      outer teachings known as Eckankar are not all novel
      ideas created by Paul Twitchell. Some are borrowed,
      IMO.

         As for much of the legends and myths, personally
      I'd suspect that some of them were "borrowed" too. I
      don't know exactly where the "virgin birth" idea came
      from, but having looked at a lot of religious history &
      world mythology I know that "virgin birth" it's not a
      completely novel idea.

         I remember the first time I read about the HU and
      the way it was described by that Sufi guy. Also, the
      way it was described in some places by both Julian
      Johnson and Paul Twitchell. If you gave the text and
      didn't mention the name Hazrat Inayat Kahn, most
      people new to Eckankar could probably claim that
      part of the description (see link) came from Paul
      Twitchell when, in fact, part of the description was
      already in existence in at least two different places.

         This is what I meant by "borrowed" from teachings
      already in existence.

         Scroll down to the 10th paragraph on this link and
      tell me if that sounds at all familiar to what you read
      in Eckankar.

      http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/II/II_8.htm

      Etznab
        


        

        



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    • prometheus_973
      Hi Etznab and All, From what I read I didn t see any disclaimer. Twitchell seems to brag about the Shariyat coming from the highest source of truth down
      Message 2 of 2 , Mar 8, 2008
        Hi Etznab and All,
        From what I read I didn't see any disclaimer.
        Twitchell seems to brag about the Shariyat
        coming from the highest source of truth down
        through all time. Most seekers who become
        ECKists want to hear the things PT had to say.
        Then again, many young people want to believe
        in Harry Potter too.

        If Twitchell did say what you claim then maybe
        this attempt at honesty was to, perhaps, clear
        his conscience while, also, giving the reader fair
        warning that many things they were about to read
        were fictional and myth and Not really gospel. This
        way Twitchell washes his hands of any guilt and
        karma related to his trickery. But, then again, it's
        a win/win for everyone. Twitchell has a vocation
        and money and gets to be a big shot back home
        and can feel important for once by giving misfits
        and outcasts some hope. This is the "win" part
        for ECKists... those "high" initiation numbers
        and the expansion of their imaginations and egos
        to protect them from the Truth... that they can't handle!

        However, the Virgin Birth story (myth) is one that
        Twitchell tells of himself. He was born on a riverboat
        and there were blue flowers (of the Mahanta) near his
        mother who was a Virgin (like Jesus' mother the Virgin
        Mary). And PT was later found floating on the Mississippi
        River (like Moses).

        I'm rather surprised that ECKANKAR (since Twitchell)
        hasn't celebrated Paul's "Virgin" Birth instead of just
        his birth on Oct. 22.

        As with the Christian Bible ECKists are told the Shariyat
        is the Highest Truth, therefore, why would ECKists
        question anything contained in this source of truth?
        Thus, the Virgin Birth requirement for the Mahanta
        must be true... making Klemp a fraud.

        Prometheus


        etznab wrote:
        >
        >
        > In the Intro. to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One,
        > Paul Twitchell included the words "legends", "stories",
        > "allegories" & "fables" concerning the writing. At least,
        > that appeared in the 1997 version. The Shariyat, Book
        > One, includes the section on "virgin birth".
        >
        > What is missing, in my opinion, are the indicators
        > about what is legend, story, allegory, or fable, etc. It
        > might seem that part would have to be determined by
        > the reader. There might be some, but I doubt that very
        > many Eckists would argue Harold Klemp was "born of
        > a virgin".
        >
        > Personally, I don't believe the "virgin birth" subject
        > is a literal truth. I would call it something else. Also,
        > I'd suspect that Paul Twitchell and others "borrowed"
        > from "existing beliefs" when putting together history
        > for the teachings. Afterall, The Far Country, by Paul
        > Twitchell, is not the only Eckankar book with text &
        > sections similar to teachings that were already then
        > in existence, or in print. A number of teachings one
        > can find in other books by other authors - like Julian
        > Johnson, etc. - show up in numerous places through-
        > out the Eckankar literature. Including the Shariyat-Ki-
        > Sugmad!
        >
        > Knowing this, it has become evident to me that the
        > outer teachings known as Eckankar are not all novel
        > ideas created by Paul Twitchell. Some are borrowed,
        > IMO.
        >
        > As for much of the legends and myths, personally
        > I'd suspect that some of them were "borrowed" too. I
        > don't know exactly where the "virgin birth" idea came
        > from, but having looked at a lot of religious history &
        > world mythology I know that "virgin birth" it's not a
        > completely novel idea.
        >
        > I remember the first time I read about the HU and
        > the way it was described by that Sufi guy. Also, the
        > way it was described in some places by both Julian
        > Johnson and Paul Twitchell. If you gave the text and
        > didn't mention the name Hazrat Inayat Kahn, most
        > people new to Eckankar could probably claim that
        > part of the description (see link) came from Paul
        > Twitchell when, in fact, part of the description was
        > already in existence in at least two different places.
        >
        > This is what I meant by "borrowed" from teachings
        > already in existence.
        >
        > Scroll down to the 10th paragraph on this link and
        > tell me if that sounds at all familiar to what you read
        > in Eckankar.
        >
        > http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/II/II_8.htm
        >
        > Etznab
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > **************
        > It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
        > Finance.
        > (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
        >
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